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gmhr1
08-03-2010, 09:38 AM
This makes me sick! came across on Fox news last night,
The Mexican drug cardel put a Million Dollar Bounty on the head of Sheriff Joe Arpaio and is offering a Thousand dollars just to join them.
The suspect used a disposable cell phone and made the call from Mexico they are still investigating

troy schwab
08-03-2010, 10:06 AM
Geez..... wonder if the Feds will help???? LOL What a joke..... we need to clean that shithole country from the outside in....... What a useless neighbor. But Obama would rather cuddle with the Mexican Pres, who blames us for Mexicos drug trafficing. What a freakin joke. BTW, my prayers go to the sheriff, he is in a tough spot, and could use some help.

gman0046
08-03-2010, 10:08 AM
Sheriff Joe Arpaio is doing the job most Americans want him to do. Too bad the Federal
Government won't enforce the laws already on the books. Sheriff Joe is a true American.

gmhr1
08-03-2010, 10:15 AM
I love Sheriff Joe and the great job he is doing for our State, our prayers are with him and his family.

road kill
08-03-2010, 10:17 AM
This is just the beginning.
As they find out what chickenshitz Americans are now they will get bolder.

Wait till they start telling Obama and Holder and Napolatano what to do.
It will be funny to watch them jump!!


RK

gmhr1
08-03-2010, 10:54 AM
The Pres could help this by dropping his lawsuit against us and let us do our Jib instead of siding with the illegals he has shown them who matters and its not us.

Hew
08-03-2010, 11:02 AM
If Arpaio is killed the backlash that will hit Mexico, the border gangsters, drug dealers and those for lax immigration policy/enforcement will approach 9/12/01 levels. La Raza might want to use some of all that Soros and Tides Foundation money to hire Arpaio some more bodyguards.

Roger Perry
08-03-2010, 11:09 AM
Sheriff Joe Arpaio is doing the job most Americans want him to do. Too bad the Federal
Government won't enforce the laws already on the books. Sheriff Joe is a true American.

Didn't I just hear he had some inmates escape from his prison?

subroc
08-03-2010, 11:20 AM
Didn't I just hear he had some inmates escape from his prison?

Do you support Arpaio?

gmhr1
08-03-2010, 11:51 AM
They did not escape from his jail

david gibson
08-03-2010, 12:01 PM
Didn't I just hear he had some inmates escape from his prison?

Sheriff = county office - runs county jail.

Prison is a State corrections department.

most people know these things. no surprise you dont.

Maricopa county is a very large county encompassing Phoenix. "...population 3,954,598, which ranks fourth among the nation's counties and is greater than the population of 24 states."


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"A nationwide manhunt continued late Monday for two of three "dangerous" inmates who escaped last week from an Arizona prison.

Tracy Province and John McCluskey were still on the loose Monday night after fleeing an Arizona prison Friday, said Charles Ryan, the director of the state's Department of Corrections.

Province, 42, was serving a life sentence for murder and armed robbery. McCluskey, 45, was serving 15 years for attempted second-degree murder and other charges.

Ryan blamed the escape on problems with security at the prison, which is owned by a private company."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

do you really think you are going to be able to find fault with Sheriff Joe?? try and try all you want - you wont be the first to fail! ever since obama took office he sent a task force of FBI down there to watch his and his departments' every move and they got nothing. he and his deputies are followed constantly, they are just waiting to catch them "profiling". his department of 900 deputies jailed 35,000 illegals last year, made them serve their time for offenses like driving with no license, no insurance, etc, after they serve their time in county jail he deposits them with ICE. he has an excellent working relationship with local ICE, but expect that to change as obama is sure to not like that arrangement and do some staff swaps.

.

subroc
08-03-2010, 12:11 PM
I don't know why anyone would want to find fault with the guy. I hope our friends on the left can voice their displeasure with the man so we can understand. I expect it is just reflex. Arpaio must just represent what they perceive is right wing, therefore they must disagree with him and in some cases hate the man.

ducknwork
08-03-2010, 12:22 PM
If Arpaio is killed the backlash that will hit Mexico, the border gangsters, drug dealers and those for lax immigration policy/enforcement will approach 9/12/01 levels.

Maybe we'll finally find out about that steel that Joe Biteme claims O has in his spine.:rolleyes:


Don't hold your breath regards,

david gibson
08-03-2010, 12:47 PM
If Arpaio is killed the backlash that will hit Mexico, the border gangsters, drug dealers and those for lax immigration policy/enforcement will approach 9/12/01 levels. La Raza might want to use some of all that Soros and Tides Foundation money to hire Arpaio some more bodyguards.

if he or any other lawman in AZ or TX is killed by the cartels or coyotes the blood is on obamas hands.

the bastid wont even go down and visit the border with Brewer. he is "too busy"

yeah. right.

Eric Johnson
08-03-2010, 01:09 PM
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"A nationwide manhunt continued late Monday for two of three "dangerous" inmates who escaped last week from an Arizona prison.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


I believe that the prizon that they excaped from is contractor operated....maybe even contractor owned.

Eric

gman0046
08-03-2010, 01:22 PM
Does anyone really think that Yardley and Roger Perry would support Sheriff Joe? I believe if Sheriff Joe asked the American Public for donations to hire bodyguards, he'd get no problem. He's doing the job Obongolo won't.

road kill
08-03-2010, 01:36 PM
if he or any other lawman in AZ or TX is killed by the cartels or coyotes the blood is on obamas hands.

the bastid wont even go down and visit the border with Brewer. he is "too busy"

yeah. right.


Golf takes up a lot of time!!:shock:



RK

gman0046
08-03-2010, 01:53 PM
Don't know about y'all but I'd rather see Sheriff Joe in the White House then Obongo. At least Sheriff Joe has run a Sheriffs department with 900 deputies where Obongo has never run anything in his life before being elected. If any liberals believe I'm wrong, please tell us what Obongo ran before becoming president. Sheriff Joe has at least two things Obongo doesn't have. Thats the respect of the American people and he has COHONES which Obongo doesn't have.

Roger Perry
08-03-2010, 02:31 PM
Do you support Arpaio?


I really do not know anything about the guy. Guess I should find out who he is. I just heard on the news that some convicts broke out of a prison somewhere in Arizona but did not pay any attention to the details. Arizona is a ways from Florida.

M&K's Retrievers
08-03-2010, 03:01 PM
I really do not know anything about the guy. Guess I should find out who he is. I just heard on the news that some convicts broke out of a prison somewhere in Arizona but did not pay any attention to the details. Arizona is a ways from Florida.

He's a deal! Read up on him.

gman0046
08-03-2010, 07:15 PM
Its amazing. Roger Perry knows the last time Obongolo changed his under shorts but has never heard of Sheriff Joe Arpiao. Where have you been Roger? Sheriff Joe has been on TV almost as much as Obongolo.

david gibson
08-03-2010, 07:28 PM
Its amazing. Roger Perry knows the last time Obongolo changed his under shorts but has never heard of Sheriff Joe Arpiao. Where have you been Roger? Sheriff Joe has been on TV almost as much as Obongolo.

whoa now, to assume RP knows when O changes his undershorts means you think he is gay and follows his every move. that is over the top. how dare you.

please pass future comments through "Franco", the conservative expert in PP.

Franco
08-03-2010, 07:59 PM
This makes me sick! came across on Fox news last night,
The Mexican drug cardel put a Million Dollar Bounty on the head of Sheriff Joe Arpaio and is offering a Thousand dollars just to join them.
The suspect used a disposable cell phone and made the call from Mexico they are still investigating

They also have a bounty on the head of Gov Brewer.

It is good to see 11 other states considering adopting the same law Arizona passed.

If I were her, Id put sniper teams all along the boader with orders to shoot annyone suspected of being with a drug cartel.

Then see what happens with the liberal media;-)

Gerry Clinchy
08-03-2010, 08:52 PM
It appears that VA has a law very similar to that of AZ's new law. And the Fed never gave them any grief over it. Read about it on one of the news outlets in the past few days.

YardleyLabs
08-03-2010, 08:58 PM
Maricopa County gets to have its own elections and elect its own sheriff. I would not vote for the man if I were there, but have no problem with those that support him. I suspect that the day will come when he will be the one faced with living in a tent in 120 degree weather dressed only in his pink underwear. If that day does come, I hope he receives no reprieve.

david gibson
08-03-2010, 09:05 PM
They also have a bounty on the head of Gov Brewer.

It is good to see 11 other states considering adopting the same law Arizona passed.

If I were her, Id put sniper teams all along the boader with orders to shoot annyone suspected of being with a drug cartel.

Then see what happens with the liberal media;-)

what happened to the good ole USA doctrine of innocent until proven guilty? even the staunchest conservatives believe in that.

what exactly does "being suspected of being with a cartel" mean?

so some poor immigrant looking for work to feed his kids comes across the "boader" with a backpack full of water and food to last 4 days across the desert. but, because cartel drug runners use backpacks to carry drugs, you now decree this person as "annyone suspected of being with a drug cartel" so you shoot him. cold blood.

how will you feel when you find his backpack contains only food and water and pictures of his wife and kids?

and you call yourself a conservative? no conservative i know would condone random killings of "annyone" suspected of being in a cartel. thats what arrest and due process is for, unless and until they pull a weapon first.

i want no association with "conservatives" like you. i know many conservatives, many among my best friends.

you, sir, are no conservative. hell, you dont even live in a "boader" state. stick with oil spills, thats all you got.

WRL
08-03-2010, 09:08 PM
Maricopa County gets to have its own elections and elect its own sheriff. I would not vote for the man if I were there, but have no problem with those that support him. I suspect that the day will come when he will be the one faced with living in a tent in 120 degree weather dressed only in his pink underwear. If that day does come, I hope he receives no reprieve.

And he has an EXTREMELY low repeat offender rate......

LOTS of people live in 120 deg temps, its Arizona for gosh sakes. And they do have tents to get into out of the sun.

They are INMATES who don't need cable TV and steak for dinner. Jail should NOT be a pleasant place. If it was that way in all states, most people would not WANT to repeat to end up going back.

WRL

YardleyLabs
08-03-2010, 09:10 PM
And he has an EXTREMELY low repeat offender rate......

LOTS of people live in 120 deg temps, its Arizona for gosh sakes. And they do have tents to get into out of the sun.

They are INMATES who don't need cable TV and steak for dinner. Jail should NOT be a pleasant place. If it was that way in all states, most people would not WANT to repeat to end up going back.

WRL
From what I read, he commissioned an independent study of recidivism rates and no significant differences were found between pre and post Joe. I would love to see a link to an independent study showing otherwise.

luvmylabs23139
08-03-2010, 09:11 PM
Hey I miss our local pink jail cells with the crying teddy bears.

david gibson
08-03-2010, 09:16 PM
From what I read, he commissioned an independent study of recidivism rates and no significant differences were found between pre and post Joe. I would love to see a link to an independent study showing otherwise.

who cares? if you have the same recidivism rate, you are saying you prefer inmates in your county to eat steak, lift weights all day, watch TV, read playboys and openly masturbate in front of female guards, etc etc, than to have them cleaning up trash along the highways and doing other work that benefits the common good??

what does "paying a debt to society" mean to you people? getting room service?

dback
08-03-2010, 09:24 PM
Maricopa County gets to have its own elections and elect its own sheriff. I would not vote for the man if I were there, but have no problem with those that support him. I suspect that the day will come when he will be the one faced with living in a tent in 120 degree weather dressed only in his pink underwear. If that day does come, I hope he receives no reprieve.

Why would you say that Jeff?

When he took office he stated that inmates would not receive early release due to lack of space and that he would reduce costs per inmate.....he has done both. When folks complain about the heat, his response is that military personnel serve in hotter climes with no shade, no coolers, body armor and 50 lb packs without complaining.

ducknwork
08-03-2010, 09:26 PM
Maricopa County gets to have its own elections and elect its own sheriff. I would not vote for the man if I were there, but have no problem with those that support him. I suspect that the day will come when he will be the one faced with living in a tent in 120 degree weather dressed only in his pink underwear. If that day does come, I hope he receives no reprieve.

Why not?

Genuinely curious.

YardleyLabs
08-03-2010, 09:52 PM
Why would you say that Jeff?

When he took office he stated that inmates would not receive early release due to lack of space and that he would reduce costs per inmate.....he has done both. When folks complain about the heat, his response is that military personnel serve in hotter climes with no shade, no coolers, body armor and 50 lb packs without complaining.


Why not?

Genuinely curious.
There is a difference between brutal treatment and firm treatment. My impression is that he leans toward the first. The justification of treatment is ultimately how effective the system is in reducing crime. My that measure, my understanding is that he has not been very effective, in part because of manpower diversions to his personal priorities. From a legal perspective, he doesn't do to much to say on the legal side of the line. There are numerous investigations now under way and he is flirting with contempt citations in his efforts to avoid turning over documentation. One that is currently pending involves a deputy filmed removing files from a defense attorney's brief case. The judge ordered an apology. The deputy refused Extensive demonstrations were held protesting the judge's order. This is currently pending action.

That is a minor example, but suggests an environment that encourages flouting the law to promote the polirical posturing of the office. However, I would have assumed that the Sheriff's job is to enforce the law, not flout it. Sherrif Joe seems to be operating like those good old boy prison wardens of the 60's and earlier. Harsh treatment to enforce a system that was fundamentally corrupt and subject to massive graft, combined with hundreds of unexplained bodies out in the field of those that objected or couldn't take the heat. I have no basis for believing that is the case in Maricopa County, but the rhetoric is frighteningly similar.

M&K's Retrievers
08-03-2010, 09:56 PM
From what I read, he commissioned an independent study of recidivism rates and no significant differences were found between pre and post Joe. I would love to see a link to an independent study showing otherwise.

Link please

david gibson
08-03-2010, 10:14 PM
There is a difference between brutal treatment and firm treatment. My impression is that he leans toward the first. The justification of treatment is ultimately how effective the system is in reducing crime. My that measure, my understanding is that he has not been very effective, in part because of manpower diversions to his personal priorities. From a legal perspective, he doesn't do to much to say on the legal side of the line. There are numerous investigations now under way and he is flirting with contempt citations in his efforts to avoid turning over documentation. One that is currently pending involves a deputy filmed removing files from a defense attorney's brief case. The judge ordered an apology. The deputy refused Extensive demonstrations were held protesting the judge's order. This is currently pending action.

That is a minor example, but suggests an environment that encourages flouting the law to promote the polirical posturing of the office. However, I would have assumed that the Sheriff's job is to enforce the law, not flout it. Sherrif Joe seems to be operating like those good old boy prison wardens of the 60's and earlier. Harsh treatment to enforce a system that was fundamentally corrupt and subject to massive graft, combined with hundreds of unexplained bodies out in the field of those that objected or couldn't take the heat. I have no basis for believing that is the case in Maricopa County, but the rhetoric is frighteningly similar.

what else would we expect from a bleeding heart liberal but tripe like this??

let me guess - you are against the death penalty too, right?

Franco
08-03-2010, 10:21 PM
what happened to the good ole USA doctrine of innocent until proven guilty? even the staunchest conservatives believe in that.

what exactly does "being suspected of being with a cartel" mean?

so some poor immigrant looking for work to feed his kids comes across the "boader" with a backpack full of water and food to last 4 days across the desert. but, because cartel drug runners use backpacks to carry drugs, you now decree this person as "annyone suspected of being with a drug cartel" so you shoot him. cold blood.

how will you feel when you find his backpack contains only food and water and pictures of his wife and kids?

and you call yourself a conservative? no conservative i know would condone random killings of "annyone" suspected of being in a cartel. thats what arrest and due process is for, unless and until they pull a weapon first.

i want no association with "conservatives" like you. i know many conservatives, many among my best friends.

you, sir, are no conservative. hell, you dont even live in a "boader" state. stick with oil spills, thats all you got.

As I posted on the last illegal migration thread, I suggested sniper teams to bring the lawless corridor under control by taking out armed smugglers.

The Gov., the sheriffs of both Maricopa and Nogalis counties all have bounties placed on them by drug cartels and human smugglers. I suggest taking drastic action in restoring law and order.

The rest of your post in nothing more than childish ranting because I called you out for personally insulting those you disagree with.

david gibson
08-03-2010, 10:28 PM
As I posted on the last illegal migration thread, I suggested sniper teams to bring the lawless corridor under control by taking out armed smugglers.

The Gov., the sheriffs of both Maricopa and Nogalis counties all have bounties placed on them by drug cartels and human smugglers. I suggest taking drastic action in restoring law and order.

The rest of your post in nothing more than childish ranting because I called you out for personally insulting those you disagree with.

you said:
"shoot annyone suspected of being with a drug cartel."

no where in there does it say they have to be armed. just makin' sure you stay honest. please be consistent or you come out looking like a minuteman vigilante nazi that they try to pin on all anti-illegal immigrationists.

M&K's Retrievers
08-03-2010, 10:30 PM
...... Sherrif Joe seems to be operating like those good old boy prison wardens of the 60's and earlier. ..... I have no basis for believing that is the case in Maricopa County, but the rhetoric is frighteningly similar.

Jeff, maybe that's exactly what this country needs all around. Folks are fed up with all this poor, poor, pitiful me, it's not my fault, I didn't have the advantage of blah, blah, blah. No TV and living in a tent in hot weather blows, as it should.

Sheriff Joe and the Governor are trying to do their jobs of protecting their citizens. Their job is not to rehabilitate inmates.

dback
08-03-2010, 10:31 PM
There is a difference between brutal treatment and firm treatment. My impression is that he leans toward the first. The justification of treatment is ultimately how effective the system is in reducing crime. My that measure, my understanding is that he has not been very effective, in part because of manpower diversions to his personal priorities. From a legal perspective, he doesn't do to much to say on the legal side of the line. There are numerous investigations now under way and he is flirting with contempt citations in his efforts to avoid turning over documentation. One that is currently pending involves a deputy filmed removing files from a defense attorney's brief case. The judge ordered an apology. The deputy refused Extensive demonstrations were held protesting the judge's order. This is currently pending action.

That is a minor example, but suggests an environment that encourages flouting the law to promote the polirical posturing of the office. However, I would have assumed that the Sheriff's job is to enforce the law, not flout it. Sherrif Joe seems to be operating like those good old boy prison wardens of the 60's and earlier. Harsh treatment to enforce a system that was fundamentally corrupt and subject to massive graft, combined with hundreds of unexplained bodies out in the field of those that objected or couldn't take the heat. I have no basis for believing that is the case in Maricopa County, but the rhetoric is frighteningly similar.

I'll be the first to state that Maricopa County has some serious management problems. I am very close to much of this. A good friend of mine works in the Governors office, my brother-in-law was a State Rep for 12 years and is now a lobbyist (eek) , a teammate was a State Senator for years and his wife is on the current Maricopa County Board of Supervisors and my very best friend is the current Maricopa County Chief Appropriations Officer for the County DoC.

Maricopa County government is a mess. Sheriff Joe's office is an 'elected' position....he is a camera hog (what politician isn't) but he is still elected with about a 70% vote. He was investigating some on the Board of Supervisors for corruption and had support and cover from the former county AG, however, the former AG resigned to run for State AG and the Board of Supervisors appointed a 'friendlier' AG and now the tables are turned on Joe. Board of Supervisors Mary Rose Wilcox was being investigated in regards to her "ownership" of a Chili's restaurant at Sky Harbor Airport which by Federal Law gave preferential treatment to minorities and must be involved in the day to day operation of the business. Mary Rose is female and Hispanic but not involved in the operation and may not have invested a dime. I know for a fact that she has asked to have frozen product stored (in the county facility) for her. Corruption, waste and fraud at the county level is despicable but remember that the media loves to paint Joe as the villain.

Franco
08-03-2010, 10:42 PM
you said:


just makin' sure you stay honest. please be consistent or you come out looking like a minuteman vigilante nazi that they try to pin on all anti-illegal immigrationists.



I am a minuteman vigilante nazi when it comes to securing the USA!

Guilty as charged.

dback
08-03-2010, 10:47 PM
There is a difference between brutal treatment and firm treatment.

You DO realize that we work, go to football games, fish, sunbath, jog, hike, repair cars, walk our dogs, dove hunt, quail hunt...................................in this don't you? If you think their treatment is brutal.....think about the guys pouring concrete, roofers, electricians in attics, field workers....... Jeff, If you look in Websters for 'liberal, bleeding heart puss'....you'll see a picture of your ole mug ;-) :-)

M&K's Retrievers
08-03-2010, 10:58 PM
You DO realize that we work, go to football games, fish, sunbath, jog, hike, repair cars, walk our dogs, dove hunt, quail hunt...................................in this don't you? If you think their treatment is brutal.....think about the guys pouring concrete, roofers, electricians in attics, field workers....... Jeff, If you look in Websters for 'liberal, bleeding heart puss'....you'll see a picture of you ole mug ;-) :-)

Well said.

BonMallari
08-04-2010, 12:03 AM
since a murder for hire plot against an elected official has been uncovered does that mean the Dept.of Justice can get the FBI to investigate

dback
08-04-2010, 12:09 AM
I'm trying to turn over a new leaf and not make quite so many smart arsed comments, after rereading this I just had to revisit some of your points.


There is a difference between brutal treatment and firm treatment. My impression is that he leans toward the first.I already addressed this one....it isn't BRUTAL The justification of treatment is ultimately how effective the system is in reducing crime. My that measure, my understanding is that he has not been very effective, just a couple of weeks ago you guys were screaming that HB 1070 was not necessary in part because Arizona was reporting less crime.....which is it, can't have it both ways in part because of manpower diversions to his personal priorities.He does 'crime suppression sweeps' once a month or so with fewer than 50-100 officers out of several thousand?????? You're reading the 'lefty line'...even you can't seriously call that 'manpower diversion' From a legal perspective, he doesn't do to much to say on the legal side of the line. There are numerous investigations now under way and he is flirting with contempt citations in his efforts to avoid turning over documentation.Nearly every investigation is either dealing with the County Board of Supervisors or the Hispanic community pressing the 'racial' issue One that is currently pending involves a deputy filmed removing files from a defense attorney's brief case. The judge ordered an apology.Now think about that Jeff......soooo contemptible was the offense that the Judge ordered an (gasp) apology! The deputy refused Extensive demonstrations were held protesting the judge's order."Extensive" demonstrations.....similar to the extensive demonstrations last week when they 'bussed' three loads from California to protest :rolleyes: This is currently pending action.

That is a minor example, but suggests an environment that encourages flouting the law to promote the polirical posturing of the office. However, I would have assumed that the Sheriff's job is to enforce the law, not flout it. Sherrif Joe seems to be operating like those good old boy prison wardens of the 60's and earlier. Harsh treatment to enforce a system that was fundamentally corrupt and subject to massive graft, combined with hundreds of unexplained bodies out in the field of those that objected or couldn't take the heat.Get serious Jeff.....You've been watching 'Cool Hand Luke' again. Sheriff Joe's "chain gangs" are used as a reward for good behavior to get outside and are 100% voluntary I have no basis for believing that is the case in Maricopa County,then why in the world would an intelligent man like yourself even suggest it? but the rhetoric is frighteningly similar.

BonMallari
08-04-2010, 12:25 AM
dback ,you have the wrong movie reference....the movie with the unexplained dead bodies in the field and corrupt prison system was " Brubaker"...which starred another bleeding heart lib in Robert Redford :p:p

dback
08-04-2010, 12:41 AM
dback ,you have the wrong movie reference....the movie with the unexplained dead bodies in the field and corrupt prison system was " Brubaker"...which starred another bleeding heart lib in Robert Redford :p:p

Gotcha....except we have never had an 'unexplained dead body' and the corruption is in the Board of Supervisors. My guess is a couple on the Board will win big settlements and pocket even more county money. Joe has reduced prison costs substantially since he has been in office (no corruption there). We sure have gotten away from Cindy's original point.

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 06:00 AM
Link please
"In 1998, Arpaio commissioned a study, by Arizona State University criminal justice professor Marie L. Griffin, to examine recidivism rates based on conditions of confinement. Comparing recidivism rates under Arpaio to those under his predecessor, the study found "there was no significant difference in recidivism observed between those offenders released in 1989-1990 and those released in 1994-1995. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maricopa_County_Sheriff%27s_Office_controversies

You can find many other references for this. The Sheriff's office paid $10,000 for the study and attacked it when the results were published. No similar study has been commissioned since then.

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 06:10 AM
I'm trying to turn over a new leaf and not make quite so many smart arsed comments, after rereading this I just had to revisit some of your points.
The investigatio0ns I was referring to tend to involve more things like intentional destruction of evidence to avoid investigation. When arrest records were subpoenaed to investigate charges of profiling, the officers' arrest notes were shredded. Separately, Maricopa County has paid out over $40 million to settle wrongful death cases for inmates that died in custody while he has been sheriff.

road kill
08-04-2010, 07:20 AM
There is a difference between brutal treatment and firm treatment. My impression is that he leans toward the first. The justification of treatment is ultimately how effective the system is in reducing crime. My that measure, my understanding is that he has not been very effective, in part because of manpower diversions to his personal priorities. From a legal perspective, he doesn't do to much to say on the legal side of the line. There are numerous investigations now under way and he is flirting with contempt citations in his efforts to avoid turning over documentation. One that is currently pending involves a deputy filmed removing files from a defense attorney's brief case. The judge ordered an apology. The deputy refused Extensive demonstrations were held protesting the judge's order. This is currently pending action.

That is a minor example, but suggests an environment that encourages flouting the law to promote the polirical posturing of the office. However, I would have assumed that the Sheriff's job is to enforce the law, not flout it. Sherrif Joe seems to be operating like those good old boy prison wardens of the 60's and earlier. Harsh treatment to enforce a system that was fundamentally corrupt and subject to massive graft, combined with hundreds of unexplained bodies out in the field of those that objected or couldn't take the heat. I have no basis for believing that is the case in Maricopa County, but the rhetoric is frighteningly similar.

If you don't like his treatment of prisoners, or the way he runs his jail then......DON'T COMMIT A CRIME!!


Pretty simple really.


RK

ducknwork
08-04-2010, 07:27 AM
If you don't like his treatment of prisoners, or the way he runs his jail then......DON'T COMMIT A CRIME!!


Pretty simple really.


RK

Winner winner chicken dinner!!!!!!!

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 07:39 AM
If you don't like his treatment of prisoners, or the way he runs his jail then......DON'T COMMIT A CRIME!!


Pretty simple really.


RK
You mean, like, destroying evidence or stealing items from a briefcase? If it is the right treatment, it will also be the right treatment for any members of the sheriff's office convicted of crimes.

ducknwork
08-04-2010, 07:43 AM
You mean, like, destroying evidence or stealing items from a briefcase? If it is the right treatment, it will also be the right treatment for any members of the sheriff's office convicted of crimes.

Sure. IF they broke the law. Prove it, don't just say he did something.

badbullgator
08-04-2010, 07:44 AM
You mean, like, destroying evidence or stealing items from a briefcase? If it is the right treatment, it will also be the right treatment for any members of the sheriff's office convicted of crimes.


Jeff you have lost it. You are as predictable as roger in your hate of anyone that is not a lefty. You use to be pretty reasonable in you arguments but now I know as soon as anyone post ANY THING that is not from "your side" you are right on top of it with lots of hate.....too bad really




http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/adu118.gif

road kill
08-04-2010, 07:49 AM
You mean, like, destroying evidence or stealing items from a briefcase? If it is the right treatment, it will also be the right treatment for any members of the sheriff's office convicted of crimes.


Try posting based on facts and not just you ideologically based opinions!!:D

Isn't that your self professed standard, or is that just for others??


If you commit a crime and are convicted, you get punished, that would include me.....and even you.
(do you have some evidence no one else has?)


RK

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 08:00 AM
Actually, the two examples cited -- stealing from a briefcase and destroying evidence -- are both based on facts. Both are awaiting determinations on penalties. Seems like a good time to try equal treatment under the law. It seems to me that the strongest law and order types are the first in line with reasons why harsh treatment would be wrong for them. We had one here of a state legislator who struck and killed a guy with his car, left the scene, and had the car (paid for by taxpayers) repaired and repainted before he was finally tracked down by the police. Following convistion for vehicluar homicide and leaving the scene of an accident, political influence was used to get his sentence converted to weekend house arrest because imprisonment would be "counterproductive." Until this incident he was a leading contender for senate majority leader. Since the incident, he still seems to get most of his income through his political connections. I don't believe he ever spent a night in jail.

road kill
08-04-2010, 08:14 AM
Actually, the two examples cited -- stealing from a briefcase and destroying evidence -- are both based on facts. Both are awaiting determinations on penalties. Seems like a good time to try equal treatment under the law. It seems to me that the strongest law and order types are the first in line with reasons why harsh treatment would be wrong for them. We had one here of a state legislator who struck and killed a guy with his car, left the scene, and had the car (paid for by taxpayers) repaired and repainted before he was finally tracked down by the police. Following convistion for vehicluar homicide and leaving the scene of an accident, political influence was used to get his sentence converted to weekend house arrest because imprisonment would be "counterproductive." Until this incident he was a leading contender for senate majority leader. Since the incident, he still seems to get most of his income through his political connections. I don't believe he ever spent a night in jail.


I see NO facts or links, just your beliefs.

What does something that happened THERE have to do with the Sheriff in AZ??

Oh....yeah....wait...NOTHING!!:rolleyes:

Is this another one of those "fact based well thought out posts" the other "middle of the road independents" are always praising you for??:p




RK

WRL
08-04-2010, 09:40 AM
"In 1998, Arpaio commissioned a study, by Arizona State University criminal justice professor Marie L. Griffin, to examine recidivism rates based on conditions of confinement. Comparing recidivism rates under Arpaio to those under his predecessor, the study found "there was no significant difference in recidivism observed between those offenders released in 1989-1990 and those released in 1994-1995. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maricopa_County_Sheriff%27s_Office_controversies

You can find many other references for this. The Sheriff's office paid $10,000 for the study and attacked it when the results were published. No similar study has been commissioned since then.

Well then his tent city can't be that bad if inmates aren't afraid of ending up back there.

It IS supposed to be a punishment. Its too late for a "time out" for these people.

WRL

dback
08-04-2010, 09:52 AM
Actually, the two examples cited -- stealing from a briefcase and destroying evidence -- are both based on facts. Both are awaiting determinations on penalties.

Actually there are three separate issues at this point.

First the "stealing from a briefcase". This is a very common accusation by defense attorneys. DoC personnel do not search attorneys' person prior to visitations or court appearances with clients, it is a known fact that much of the 'contraband' that finds it's way into prisons is done so by attorneys.....DoC personnel, however, ARE required to hold items an attorney may be carrying with him on those visitations or appearances and it is very common for attorneys to claim violations after the fact. Far be it from me to suggest that some attorneys have even carried information (that he knew the AG already possessed) into a hearing and subsequently claim that it was in fact stolen from him at the hearing. >>Another Mosh Pit perhaps<< Apparently, paper work was removed and read (I in no way condone this action).....there was a shouting match after the hearing and the judge ordered an apology which the officer refused.

Secondly the Board of Supervisors in an obvious attempt at retribution for his investigations, took financial steps to stop Joe from his 'crime sweep' operations. While he was the one county agency that had voluntarily reduced much of his budget in several areas....the Board demanded he take a further major cut AND move additional funds from 'enforcement' to DoC thereby giving the media cover so that they might print nasty 'personnel diversion' stories and folks in Pa. could read all about how Joe was not preforming his duties. When he was able to continue the 'Sweeps' they then demanded financial records which he has produced.

Thirdly, when none of the prior actions produced their desired results, the Board went to the O administration and asked them to stop him on the grounds of 'racial profiling'. Anyone with half a wit knows there is no defense for that accusation. Obama and Holder have made it plain that 'facts' will not cloud their opinion of LEO when dealing with minorities. Joe's 'sweeps' have been at businesses reportedly employing 'illegals'......something you have on many occasions espoused in the past......and I'm sure you will now condemn :rolleyes:

Gotta agree with Corey.....in the past you have at least made veiled attempts at being 'fair & balanced', lately however, you seem to have discarded that cloak. At this rate, toss in a little colorful language and you're on a path to become the lefts' version of gman. :-) :-) :-) Sorry Jeff.....it's just not my nature to not make at least 'one' snotty comment. ;-)

JDogger
08-04-2010, 10:09 AM
You start scratching the surface and you find more stuff like this. His popularity in Maricopa county is not universal. His greatest asset seems to be self-promotion.

http://www.arpaio.com/

http://www.arpaio.com/arpaio-truth/index.php

It seems that when Sheriff Joe was asked to show his papers, he wouldn't comply.

http://washingtonindependent.com/93605/doj-threatens-to-sue-arizona-sheriff-joe-arpaio

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Actually there are three separate issues at this point.

First the "stealing from a briefcase". This is a very common accusation by defense attorneys. DoC personnel do not search attorneys' person prior to visitations or court appearances with clients, it is a known fact that much of the 'contraband' that finds it's way into prisons is done so by attorneys.....DoC personnel, however, ARE required to hold items an attorney may be carrying with him on those visitations or appearances and it is very common for attorneys to claim violations after the fact. Far be it from me to suggest that some attorneys have even carried information (that he knew the AG already possessed) into a hearing and subsequently claim that it was in fact stolen from him at the hearing. >>Another Mosh Pit perhaps<< Apparently, paper work was removed and read (I in no way condone this action).....there was a shouting match after the hearing and the judge ordered an apology which the officer refused.
My understanding, based on news reports rather than court papers, is that the difference in this case was that cameras actually filmed the officer removing documents while the attorney was not present. If true, that is not a valid search or a valid action under any circumstances.


... the Board went to the O administration and asked them to stop him on the grounds of 'racial profiling'. Anyone with half a wit knows there is no defense for that accusation. Obama and Holder have made it plain that 'facts' will not cloud their opinion of LEO when dealing with minorities. Joe's 'sweeps' have been at businesses reportedly employing 'illegals'......something you have on many occasions espoused in the past......and I'm sure you will now condemn :rolleyes:
My criticism was not about racial profiling; it was about destruction of evidence. That, as you may remember, was the sole basis for convicting Arthur Andersen, the Enron accounting firm, of criminal obstruction of justice leading to conviction and bankruptcy of the fourth largest accounting firm in the world. Of course, in their case the conviction was subsequently overturned but the firm had already died. There is no context under which the sheriff's office has the right to destroy documents under subpoena, as has been alleged. There is also no context under which the sheriff's office has the right to threaten a reporter with arrest if he looks at a public record (as was done).

Clearly, Sheriff Joe is extraordinarily popular at the polls. As I stated before, I have no problem with that; it is a choice of Arizona voters. My criticisms were actually all stated in response to your questioning why I said that I personally would never vote for the man. My impression, from a long distance away, is that he is a bully who believes that he is the law rather than as a professional who recognizes that his job is to enforce the law within the limits defined by the law itself.

road kill
08-04-2010, 10:15 AM
You start scratching the surface and you find more stuff like this. His popularity in Maricopa county is not universal. His greatest asset seems to be self-promotion.

http://www.arpaio.com/

http://www.arpaio.com/arpaio-truth/index.php

It seems that when Sheriff Joe was asked to show his papers, he wouldn't comply.

http://washingtonindependent.com/93605/doj-threatens-to-sue-arizona-sheriff-joe-arpaio
Yeah....who does this guy think he is treating criminals like, well, CRIMINALS!!

After all, they are VICTIMS!!:(
(page 2 of the "middle of the road independents" playbook!!):D



RK

JDogger
08-04-2010, 10:22 AM
Yeah....who does this guy think he is treating criminals like, well, CRIMINALS!!

After all, they are VICTIMS!!:(
(page 2 of the "middle of the road independents" playbook!!):D



RK

...and Sheriff Joe has borrowed P.T. Barnum's playbook. "There's a sucker born every minute.";-)

BrianW
08-04-2010, 10:23 AM
As opposed to stats from 16 years ago

Crime rate drop in Maricopa County exceeds national average

by Parker Leavitt - Mar. 21, 2010 02:45 PM
The Arizona Republic




Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/03/21/20100321crimerate0322.html#ixzz0ve5m2CaR
"
The Maricopa County crime rate, which dropped 19 percent between 2004 and 2008, is declining more than twice as quickly as the national average, County Attorney Andrew Thomas announced Sunday.
The most recent statistics, taken from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, show an 8 percent decrease in the national crime rate from 2004 to 2008, Thomas said.


Thomas said the agency's 94 percent conviction rate means more violent criminals are being taken off the streets while discouraging potential criminals.

Isn't that the bottom line and what we really want/need?

dback
08-04-2010, 10:34 AM
My understanding, based on news reports rather than court papers, is that the difference in this case was that cameras actually filmed the officer removing documents while the attorney was not present. If true, that is not a valid search or a valid action under any circumstances.

You'll get no argument from me on this one. I don't know if the officer acted on his own initiative or not.



My criticism was not about racial profiling; it was about destruction of evidence. That, as you may remember, was the sole basis for convicting Arthur Andersen, the Enron accounting firm, of criminal obstruction of justice leading to conviction and bankruptcy of the fourth largest accounting firm in the world. Of course, in their case the conviction was subsequently overturned but the firm had already died. There is no context under which the sheriff's office has the right to destroy documents under subpoena, as has been alleged.

That's the key word.....we'll see how it plays out.


There is also no context under which the sheriff's office has the right to threaten a reporter with arrest if he looks at a public record (as was done).

I don't know the whole story on this one....but.....I'd sure advise a grain of salt. Heaven forbid I suggest a 'reporter' might possibly 'stretch' the truth.


Clearly, Sheriff Joe is extraordinarily popular at the polls. As I stated before, I have no problem with that; it is a choice of Arizona voters. My criticisms were actually all stated in response to your questioning why I said that I personally would never vote for the man. My impression, from a long distance away, is that he is a bully who believes that he is the law rather than as a professional who recognizes that his job is to enforce the law within the limits defined by the law itself.

Clearly, all perception.......it IS a political office after all.

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 10:54 AM
...

I don't know the whole story on this one....but.....I'd sure advise a grain of salt. Heaven forbid I suggest a 'reporter' might possibly 'stretch' the truth.

....
Actually, the report I read noted that officers from the Phoenix police were present at what approached being an armed standoff with Phoenix police stating that any arrest would be illegal since the materials were clearly public.

gman0046
08-04-2010, 03:24 PM
There's one bleeding heart liberal on this site who if he's arrested in Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe won't have to issue him pink panties as I sure he's already wearing them. Why does Joe's jail have to be a country club? Being convicted of a crime your supposed to be punished.

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 03:37 PM
There's one bleeding heart liberal on this site who if he's arrested in Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe won't have to issue him pink panties as I sure he's already wearing them. Why does Joe's jail have to be a country club? Being convicted of a crime your supposed to be punished.
At least I have the cojones to sign my own name and only list one location where I can be found regardless of the forum involved (You seem to swing between Kentucky and Florida). But then, I throw a few less s**tbombs than you and am not concerned about people linking me to my politics.

dnf777
08-04-2010, 05:09 PM
There's one bleeding heart liberal on this site who if he's arrested in Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe won't have to issue him pink panties as I sure he's already wearing them.

Watch out Jeff....I think you have a peeping tom in your neighborhood.

dback
08-04-2010, 07:10 PM
Actually, the report I read noted that officers from the Phoenix police were present at what approached being an armed standoff with Phoenix police stating that any arrest would be illegal since the materials were clearly public.

Ah Jeffery....what do I do with you? You're probably a really good guy. I just returned from my Grandsons football practice...102 degrees, full pads, wind sprints, full contact, no shade.....but I guess it wasn't abuse because there was no pink underwear.

The incident you're referencing took place in (I believe) 2008. These guys make James Carville look like a raging fringe right wing loon. Their "paper" is available for free at the very few establishments that will allow its distribution on their premise. The Sheriffs office was conducting an investigation and were in (as I understand) State Offices copying public documents. Someone inside the office called the 'New Times' *reporter* to let him know of the investigation. The *reporter* ran down to the building and demanded to see the documents the Deputies had in their possession at that moment. The *reporter* attempted to take the documents and was informed that he would be arrested if he interfered with the investigation and that he was welcome to them after they completed their copies. He was allowed to examine the documents after Deputies were finished. Someone did call Phoenix PD (Sheriffs Deputies for all I know) to be present. Your depiction of "near gunplay" is not only ludicrous but absolutely hilarious.........seriously Jeff.....we have paved streets now. Sheriff Joe is fully capable of making silly statements or attracting attention to himself all on his own....even you should agree......this one holds no water.

YardleyLabs
08-04-2010, 07:30 PM
Ah Jeffery....what do I do with you? You're probably a really good guy. I just returned from my Grandsons football practice...102 degrees, full pads, wind sprints, full contact, no shade.....but I guess it wasn't abuse because there was no pink underwear.

The incident you're referencing took place in (I believe) 2008. These guys make James Carville look like a raging fringe right wing loon. Their "paper" is available for free at the very few establishments that will allow its distribution on their premise. The Sheriffs office was conducting an investigation and were in (as I understand) State Offices coping public documents. Someone inside the office called the 'New Times' *reporter* to let him know of the investigation. The *reporter* ran down to the building and demanded to see the documents the Deputies had in their possession at that moment. The *reporter* attempted to take the documents and was informed that he would be arrested if he interfered with the investigation and that he was welcome to them after they completed their copies. He was allowed to examine the documents after Deputies were finished. Someone did call Phoenix PD (Sheriffs Deputies for all I know) to be present. Your depiction of "near gunplay" is not only ludicrous but absolutely hilarious.........seriously Jeff.....we have paved streets now. Sheriff Joe is fully capable of making silly statements or attracting attention to himself all on his own....even you should agree......this one holds no water.
On this one I'll take your word since i don't care for my source.

dback
08-04-2010, 08:26 PM
Back to Cindy's OP...My wife is visiting her mother just outside Mexico City and I was talking with her last night. She tells me that EVERYONE wants to know about the Arizona law and Sheriff Joe. Jorge Ramos has all of Latin America believing they can not walk the streets of Arizona without being arrested. She (nor anyone else) knew nothing of the 'bounty' placed on Joe's head.

Here are some quick stats;
In 5 years, the Hispanic community will be the largest minority in the US.
In 50 years, the Hispanic community will be in the majority in the US.
Univision and Jorge Ramos reach 85% of the entire Hispanic world.
Univision viewership is 10 times that of CNN.

Now that's one powerful media outlet and they don't even mention the 'bounty'!!!!!!! http://www.jorgeramos.com/loquedicen1.htm

Franco
08-04-2010, 10:14 PM
Univision and Jorge Ramos reach 85% of the entire Hispanic world.
Univision viewership is 10 times that of CNN.



Even I watch Univision!

I don't understand a word they are saying but, they have the best Variety/Entertainment Shows. Lots of very health young Latino babes shaking it, wearing dance costumes cha chaing all over the stage.;-)

dback
08-04-2010, 10:25 PM
Even I watch Univision!

I don't understand a word they are saying but, they have the best Variety/Entertainment Shows. Lots of very health young Latino babes shaking it, wearing dance costumes cha chaing all over the stage.;-)

Ya got me Franco....I tell my wife I watch it for the news ;-) :-) :-)

Hew
08-04-2010, 10:33 PM
!Viva Sabado Gigante! Para llena el banco de spanko. Yo no se, pero la gente dice. ;-)

dback
08-04-2010, 10:37 PM
!Viva Sabado Gigante! Para llena el banco de spanko. Yo no se, pero la gente dice. ;-)

Why HEW......who knew you were bilateral :-) :-)

Franco
08-04-2010, 10:40 PM
;-)


!Viva Sabado Gigante! Para llena el banco de spanko. Yo no se, pero la gente dice. ;-)



That's the show! A favorite with Traditional Conservatives. :D
New Conservatives wouldn't allow that much or that kind of fun on TV.;-)
Too many little old ladies would be calling the satellite and cable providers complaining about all the clevage.

Hew
08-04-2010, 11:05 PM
Why HEW......who knew you were bilateral :-) :-)
Why sir, I do believe you have sullied my personal and business reputation with that over-the-line accusation about my sexual orientation. Not only am I putting you on double secret lawsuit alert, but I shall now assert that you are gay, too. Yeah, and you're mentally challenged as well. I feel so liberated. You make me feel like a natural woman. I totally kick ass at this interweb stuff! Go me, go me, go me.

OK. I'm sorry about the name calling. I didn't really mean it.

I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.

Hew
08-04-2010, 11:09 PM
;-)

That's the show! A favorite with Traditional Conservatives. :D
Ha! Traditional Conservatives send the maid home early on Saturday nights and go to bed right after the Lawrence Welk Show ends...all tuckered out from a rough afternoon of golf and martinis down at the club. ;)

Franco
08-04-2010, 11:17 PM
Ha! Traditional Conservatives send the maid home early on Saturday nights and go to bed right after the Lawrence Welk Show ends...all tuckered out from a rough afternoon of golf and martinis down at the club. ;)

Larry Welk has that 80 year old plus market wrapped up.

Us younger(under 60),Traditional Conservatives send our hispnaic maids home early so we can watch Univision.;-)

M&K's Retrievers
08-04-2010, 11:28 PM
I just tuned in to Univision. I can't understand what they are saying. I'll call the Directv guy in the morning to see if he can fix it.

dback
08-04-2010, 11:31 PM
Why sir, I do believe you have sullied my personal and business reputation with that over-the-line accusation about my sexual orientation. Not only am I putting you on double secret lawsuit alert, but I shall now assert that you are gay, too. Yeah, and you're mentally challenged as well. I feel so liberated. You make me feel like a natural woman. I totally kick ass at this interweb stuff! Go me, go me, go me.

OK. I'm sorry about the name calling. I didn't really mean it.

I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I'm half crazy all for the love of you. It won't be a stylish marriage, I can't afford a carriage. But you'll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two.

ROTFLMAO.......think I peed a little :-) :-) :-) :-)


Larry Welk has that 80 year old plus market wrapped up.

Us younger(under 60),Traditional Conservatives send our hispnaic maids home early so we can watch Univision.;-)

Not true......you marry those hispnaic maids.....they're wild and a little kinky :-) Boy....would there be an arse whooping if she knew I referred to her as a 'maid'

Gerry Clinchy
08-08-2010, 12:31 PM
NY Times Editorial
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/opinion/08foster.html?th&emc=th


Luis emigrated from southern Mexico 16 years ago. He now runs a car maintenance business where I bring my old Aurora every few months.

To say that he and many immigrants like him are strongly in favor of Arizona’s new immigration law — which went into effect at the end of last month without its most controversial aspects, (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/29/us/29arizona.html) like immigration status checks during police stops — is like saying one or two New Yorkers dislike the Red Sox.


The truth is, nobody in Arizona likes the law. Nobody really wants it. All anyone here wants is for the federal government to enforce the existing rules governing our borders. Had it done so, no one would have bothered with the law.

kjrice
08-08-2010, 04:28 PM
Ya got me Franco....I tell my wife I watch it for the news ;-) :-) :-)
Sabado Gigante is top shelf entertainment. :D:D:D

kjrice
08-08-2010, 04:31 PM
You DO realize that we work, go to football games, fish, sunbath, jog, hike, repair cars, walk our dogs, dove hunt, quail hunt...................................in this don't you? If you think their treatment is brutal.....think about the guys pouring concrete, roofers, electricians in attics, field workers....... Jeff, If you look in Websters for 'liberal, bleeding heart puss'....you'll see a picture of your ole mug ;-) :-)
I don't know I am thinking about not jetskiing when it gets over 119 anymore...120 is just too brutal. I think I am going to stop brutalizing myself antelope hunting in August too. Oh hell, this place is just no fun.

Don Horstman
08-11-2010, 12:51 AM
Actually, the two examples cited -- stealing from a briefcase and destroying evidence -- are both based on facts. Both are awaiting determinations on penalties. Seems like a good time to try equal treatment under the law. It seems to me that the strongest law and order types are the first in line with reasons why harsh treatment would be wrong for them. We had one here of a state legislator who struck and killed a guy with his car, left the scene, and had the car (paid for by taxpayers) repaired and repainted before he was finally tracked down by the police. Following convistion for vehicluar homicide and leaving the scene of an accident, political influence was used to get his sentence converted to weekend house arrest because imprisonment would be "counterproductive." Until this incident he was a leading contender for senate majority leader. Since the incident, he still seems to get most of his income through his political connections. I don't believe he ever spent a night in jail.
__________________
Quoting Yardley above

So I am guessing you were not a supporter of the late Senator Ted Kennedy? I am sure he more than attoned for his little accident on the bridge by being a good and loyal liberal. What about the late Senator from West Virginia? I am guessing you were a supporter of his as well, even though he voted against the Civil Rights Act, and was a Klan recruiter well into his adult life. The most obvious difference I see is that very few conservatives run to the defense of politicians who are actually guilty of crimes or overwhelming moral deficiencies. We do defend the ones who are ran out on trumped up charges or who are tarred and feathered in the media for actions that would get stories of personal courage and overcoming hardships if the person is a lib. I don't defend criminals wether they have a D or an R in front of their names, but then again I also teach my kids that excuses for misbehavior are not acceptable. They know the rules, they know the consequences, and they know they will not be bailed out because someone else made me do it or put me in a bad situation. Great lesson from my dad when I was in junior high and actually inoccent of what I was being punished for - His response to the situation was the next time bad Sh*&^(*&^t is going on, get the h(*&ll out of there. If you are not around bad situations it makes it real hard to get punished for what happens. I want immigration to our country, I just prefer it be through legal channels (you know Jeff the like the laws you don't think Joe is following), and I would like to see us give preference to people who have high level skills. I am wrapping up our second large construction project/addition at work, and I personally know of one contractor on our job who has been losing drywall work to a company that uses illegal immigrants. We also had a flooring contractor with an employee who could barely speak English tell my boss (in so badly broken English that we could barely understand him) that it was his first day on the job. I would love to see Joe show up in our county. So the "they are doing jobs we won't do" line does not always hold water.