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M&K's Retrievers
08-13-2010, 08:13 PM
Obama endorses Mosque project near ground zero site. What say you?

Gerry Clinchy
08-13-2010, 08:23 PM
I think everyone's said it already.

Franco
08-13-2010, 09:06 PM
I think the mosque is doomed to failure.

It will alsways be controversial and a favorite place for Americans to urinate.

M&K's Retrievers
08-14-2010, 12:16 AM
But our president endorses it. What's up with that?

charly_t
08-14-2010, 12:25 AM
But our president endorses it. What's up with that?

Can't tell you but what I can tell you is if he were a company his "stock" just fell a lot !

Tsangster
08-14-2010, 05:03 AM
But our president endorses it. What's up with that?

Needs somewhere to pray when in NY?

road kill
08-14-2010, 07:12 AM
But our president endorses it. What's up with that?

I think it is obvious that at the very least he is a Muslim sympathizer.
Nothing new, in fact we will be reading here shortly how wonderful that is.:rolleyes:





RK

gman0046
08-14-2010, 08:06 AM
RK, saying Obongolo is a muslim sympathizer is an understatement. He was born a muslim, educated in Indonesian muslim schools and an admitted muslim. Why would he not support a muslim initiative? When is enough? Wasn't the deaths off 3000 on 9/11 enough? Real Americans need to stand up and take our country back. Obongolo and his band of are destroying our country.

YardleyLabs
08-14-2010, 08:12 AM
I think it is obvious that at the very least he is a Muslim sympathizer.
Nothing new, in fact we will be reading here shortly how wonderful that is.:rolleyes:

RK
Maybe he actually believes in the first amendment, or maybe he even thinks it is important that we differentiate between our opposition to terrorists waving the flag of religion from the other 1.3 billion believers in that religion who are not terrorists. America does not and cannot exist in isolation from the rest of the world. We also cannot survive as a free nation if we are prepared to take away the freedom of those with whom we disagree at any given moment.

YardleyLabs
08-14-2010, 08:17 AM
RK, saying Obongolo is a muslim sympathizer is an understatement. He was born a muslim, educated in Indonesian muslim schools and an admitted muslim. Why would he not support a muslim initiative? When is enough? Wasn't the deaths off 3000 on 9/11 enough? Real Americans need to stand up and take our country back. Obongolo and his band of are destroying our country.
You really are a poster child for religious bigotry. It's hard for me to think of anything less American.

road kill
08-14-2010, 08:34 AM
Maybe he actually believes in the first amendment, or maybe he even thinks it is important that we differentiate between our opposition to terrorists waving the flag of religion from the other 1.3 billion believers in that religion who are not terrorists. America does not and cannot exist in isolation from the rest of the world. We also cannot survive as a free nation if we are prepared to take away the freedom of those with whom we disagree at any given moment.

We enforce restrictions on those expressions.

Every Christmas there are numerous examples of disputes over the display of any religious based decorations.
That's just one example.

Your argument holds no water, as usual it is a strawman argument.

The Mosque should not be at that location for a variety of reasons that even you are aware of.

If we are to survive as a nation, we must be a nation.
DEF: A nation is a group of people who share culture, ethnic origin and language, often possessing or seeking its own independent government.


RK

Franco
08-14-2010, 08:38 AM
You really are a poster child for religious bigotry. It's hard for me to think of anything less American.

I can't think of anything less American then letting these people rub our faces in what they got away with on 9/11/2001. That as Americans we have become so apathetic to thier insult that we would just ignore what their true intentions are.

The Muslims wanting to build the mosque may realize that it will be doomed to controversy and hopefully abandon thier plans. But, I doubt it as they view 911 as a victory.

As an American, if I ever travel to NYC again, I will exercise my right to civil disobiency and hopefully have the opportunity to urinate on thier building. I'll gladly pay the fine!

Scout
08-14-2010, 08:38 AM
Am I missing something here?

Everyone does realise that islam is not synonymous with terrorism right?

It wasnt Allah that attacked the United States.

road kill
08-14-2010, 08:40 AM
Am I missing something here?

Everyone does realise that islam is not synonymous with terrorism right?

It wasnt Allah that attacked the United States.

Evidently, yes.



RK

Franco
08-14-2010, 08:43 AM
Am I missing something here?

Everyone does realise that islam is not synonymous with terrorism right?

It wasnt Allah that attacked the United States.

We certainly don't see any of the leaders of the Muslim world condemming violence both here and abroad. Silence is the practice of the guilty.

Franco
08-14-2010, 08:49 AM
Am I missing something here?

Everyone does realise that islam is not synonymous with terrorism right?

It wasnt Allah that attacked the United States.

Pakistan is curently suffereing from one of the worse natural disasters to ever hit them. Thousands dead in flooding, many more thousands homeless.

Want to take a guess and who is providing the most aide? Who has brought in military copters for rescure? Who has pledged aide?

Just last month we gave them 50 million in tribute so they could build some dams.

Yet, they hide Osama bin Laudin, the man behind the biggest mass murders in the history of the USA!

Where is the outrage from the Muslim world?

YardleyLabs
08-14-2010, 08:58 AM
We enforce restrictions on those expressions.

Every Christmas there are numerous examples of disputes over the display of any religious based decorations.
That's just one example.
Actually, we restrict displays on public property that are not open to all religions equally. That led to a long discussion on POTUS led by those who believed that the Christmas "season" belongs to Christians and that it was inappropriate for those of other beliefs to display expressions of their religious beliefs nerby. Atheists, it was suggested, should restrict their displays to April Fool's Day.

Your argument holds no water, as usual it is a strawman argument.
How is it a strawman argument? Are you saying that efforts to prevent a Muslim cultural center from being built two blocks away from ground zero is not a restriction based on religion?

The Mosque should not be at that location for a variety of reasons that even you are aware of.
No, I am not. What are they?

If we are to survive as a nation, we must be a nation.
DEF: A nation is a group of people who share culture, ethnic origin and language, often possessing or seeking its own independent government.
That is certainly the definition used by the Ku Klux Klan. It is not the definition used by our Constitution and is demonstrably not the case for our nation or for many other nations (including where I spent my adolescence in Switzerland, with its four official languages).

RK
..............

road kill
08-14-2010, 09:02 AM
. Are you saying that efforts to prevent a Muslim cultural center from being built two blocks away from ground zero is not a restriction based on religion?
.............

That is correct, the objections are based on POLITICAL objections, which in this case are 1 in the same, again, as you are well aware.



RK

troy schwab
08-14-2010, 02:33 PM
[QUOTE=Pete;660390Jeff
we were way more powerful when we were a sovereign nation and not a global community.
I can't think of many Muslim that disagree's with the terrorists They say nothing because they fear repercussions from their neighbors if they did. I guarantee you in this part of the country if Muslims went to the streets and cried death to america there would be a lot of bloodied up Muslims laying in the streets.AND RIGHTLY SO

who ever doesn't like our way of life can get the hell out. Thats the honest thing to do. But knowing how liberal subversives move to a community which is ascetically beautiful and offers quality of life,,,,,, only to close it down for themselves and set up laws that the locals despise is equal to what muslims do. They hate us but they move here anyway. WTF is up with that. So I ask what exactly are they looking for. I already know the answer .That was rhetorical

Open your eyes.


Pete[/QUOTE]

Well said Pete.... and very true.

YardleyLabs
08-14-2010, 03:28 PM
That is correct, the objections are based on POLITICAL objections, which in this case are 1 in the same, again, as you are well aware.



RK
When your political objections become objections to equal freedoms for all religions, you also cross the boundaries of what our Constitution permits. It's a good thing we have a Constitution. Otherwise Catholics would have been killed off in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jews would have been killed off in the 1920's and Muslims would be getting killed off now.

kjrice
08-14-2010, 03:29 PM
I think the mosque is doomed to failure.

It will alsways be controversial and a favorite place for Americans to urinate.
It will get bombed.

kjrice
08-14-2010, 03:32 PM
When your political objections become objections to equal freedoms for all religions, you also cross the boundaries of what our Constitution permits. It's a good thing we have a Constitution. Otherwise Catholics would have been killed off in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jews would have been killed off in the 1920's and Muslims would be getting killed off now.
In general, people do not care about the mosque but oppose its location. For a group to deliberately put it there, is a disgraceful slap in the face to America. Make no mistake, this plan is not a coincidental project.

YardleyLabs
08-14-2010, 03:47 PM
In general, people do not care about the mosque but oppose its location. For a group to deliberately put it there, is a disgraceful slap in the face to America. Make no mistake, this plan is not a coincidental project.
I think for mining companies to cut off the top of a mountain, or developers to block a view of a river, or coal plants to blast the atmosphere wth carbons are all disgraceful slaps in the face. How big a space should be dedicated to ground zero? If it's not big enough now, raise the money to buy more land. Until then, the land is available for use as owners see fit subject to legal regulations. That is free market capitalism at work.

hotel4dogs
08-14-2010, 04:13 PM
although I hate the thought, they have as much right to buy and build there as anyone else does. They, too, are protected by our constitution.
Now OTOH, if everyone who hates the thought of it being in that location were to contribute $10 to a fund to purchase the land and turn it into a memorial for 9-11 instead, they couldn't build their mosque there. Can't buy land someone else already owns.
(just saw that Jeff posted the same idea, sorry for the repeat)

road kill
08-14-2010, 04:16 PM
although I hate the thought, they have as much right to buy and build there as anyone else does. They, too, are protected by our constitution.
Now OTOH, if everyone who hates the thought of it being in that location were to contribute $10 to a fund to purchase the land and turn it into a memorial for 9-11 instead, they couldn't build their mosque there. Can't buy land someone else already owns.
(just saw that Jeff posted the same idea, sorry for the repeat)
No need to be sorry, your posts are welcome.


RK

BrianW
08-14-2010, 07:17 PM
The radical Islamists have borrowed a page from the Communists;
The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.

They are using our own laws and guaranteed freedoms to justify and spread their version of Islam. I've read too many statements from the imam trying to get this mosque built to regard him as a 'moderate" Muslim. It is only now that he wants to get this project built that he is using the "can't we all just get along" chorus. "Peaceful" followers of Islam have plenty of places to pray, be part of the community etc without THIS site. This location has been chosen for a reason and, imo, it's NOT the one being promulgated by Obama, Bloomberg and company.

But, I don't want the government to stop the Cordova Initiative/Park51, whatever they choose to call it, I want the People to. I hope that there are peaceful protests of civil disobedience and that the unions and everyone else honor them. I pray that this imam, faces all this opposition and somehow comes to the realization that, in order to show how "peaceful" and "loving" Islam can be, that he will pull this project off the drawing board. just because you "can" do something, doesn't mean you should.

If you truly want peace, you don't want this place at this point in time.


Christians & Jewish martyrs say; "I will die for what I believe".
A Muslim martyr says; "you will die for what I believe"....

M&K's Retrievers
08-14-2010, 07:32 PM
The radical Islamists have borrowed a page from the Communists;
The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.

They are using our own laws and guaranteed freedoms to justify and spread their version of Islam. I've read too many statements from the imam trying to get this mosque built to regard him as a 'moderate" Muslim. It is only now that he wants to get this project built that he is using the "can't we all just get along" chorus. "Peaceful" followers of Islam have plenty of places to pray, be part of the community etc without THIS site. This location has been chosen for a reason and, imo, it's NOT the one being promulgated by Obama, Bloomberg and company.

But, I don't want the government to stop the Cordova Initiative/Park51, whatever they choose to call it, I want the People to. I hope that there are peaceful protests of civil disobedience and that the unions and everyone else honor them. I pray that this imam, faces all this opposition and somehow comes to the realization that, in order to show how "peaceful" and "loving" Islam can be, that he will pull this project off the drawing board. just because you "can" do something, doesn't mean you should.

If you truly want peace, you don't want this place at this point in time.


Christians & Jewish martyrs say; "I will die for what I believe".
A Muslim martyr says; "you will die for what I believe"....

Well said.

Pals
08-14-2010, 07:38 PM
"JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD"

I think that sums it up perfectly.

gman0046
08-15-2010, 09:39 AM
Obongolo never ceases to amaze me. With his popularity with Americans dropping like a stone he continues to support issues most Americans are against (except Yardley who has almost 6,000 anti-American posts). Obongolo's father was a muslim which makes Obongolo a muslim. He attended muslim schools in Indonesia. He admitted to George Stepanopolis on national TV that he is a muslim. WTF? If rag heads in the US have a problem with the American way of life they ought to get out of our great country and go back to the sh*t hole they came from. If Yardley feels so strongly about rag heads he can go with them. It's just too bad we have a muslim president.

depittydawg
08-15-2010, 09:52 AM
Obongolo's father was a muslim which makes Obongolo a muslim.

Uh Huh... Right. This might be a bolt of inspiration across your bow, but just in case you never suspected it, quite a few people choose different paths than their Fathers.

Scout
08-15-2010, 09:52 AM
Evidently, yes.



RK

Well what is it?

It sounds as though alot of yall believe that every muslims' mission in life is to kill Americans.

YardleyLabs
08-15-2010, 09:56 AM
It's not a matter of disagreeing, it's more then that. The other 1.3 billion might not be terrorists, but, just as an example, look at how they treat women. Look what it took to stop the stoning death of a woman accused of adultery in Iran, even though there was no evidence to convict, she was giving 100 lashes, and has been waiting in prison for 6 years to be killed. Look at the picture of that girl without a nose and ears and tell me you expect us to enjoy having these attitudes in our neighborhoods. You act as if it's unreasonable to react this way to people who would do these things.
Walt
A perfect example of what happens when you allow religion to dictate government, and a great reason for us to keep them separate.

gman0046
08-15-2010, 03:37 PM
Dippy, FYI Obongolo is a muslim in the eyes of muslims because his father was a kenyan muslim. Thats not my definition its a muslim definition. I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Buzz
08-16-2010, 10:00 AM
A perfect example of what happens when you allow religion to dictate government, and a great reason for us to keep them separate.

My feelings exactly.

Marvin S
08-16-2010, 10:32 AM
My feelings exactly.

Just where do you draw the line? As an example - many beginning denominations use public facilities to conduct their services - Is that OK?

Gerry Clinchy
08-16-2010, 07:39 PM
Interesting discussion on the Michael Medved show today. O's reference Friday to the iftar hosted by Thos Jefferson for the Tunisian ambassdor. He said it didn't sound right since Tunisia did not exist at the time.

Feel free to confirm ... this was the actual story of that dinner ... the "ambassador" was actually an envoy representing the Barbary pirates. His mission was to come to negotiate a ransom for the Americans held hostage by the pirates. Upon his arrival, the envoy demanded housing and concubines. Presumably he got the housing, but there is no record of what happened about the concubines :-)

A dinner was hosted by Jefferson, but the sunset timing was only made after it was requested by envoy Nelly-Nelly.

So, the dinner in question was not a matter of cultural outreach on Jefferson's part to begin with; and the timing of the dinner in deference to Ramadan was not brought into consideration until it was requested by the envoy. Indeed, Islam was part of early American history, but not exactly the way O implied with his dinner speech.

If this is historically correct, does he have no one on his speech-writing staff ever do any research? Or did they purposely overlook it?

road kill
08-16-2010, 07:49 PM
Well what is it?

It sounds as though alot of yall believe that every muslims' mission in life is to kill Americans.

If it's only 1, it's too many!!!:D


RK

YardleyLabs
08-16-2010, 08:48 PM
Interesting discussion on the Michael Medved show today. O's reference Friday to the iftar hosted by Thos Jefferson for the Tunisian ambassdor. He said it didn't sound right since Tunisia did not exist at the time.

Feel free to confirm ... this was the actual story of that dinner ... the "ambassador" was actually an envoy representing the Barbary pirates. His mission was to come to negotiate a ransom for the Americans held hostage by the pirates. Upon his arrival, the envoy demanded housing and concubines. Presumably he got the housing, but there is no record of what happened about the concubines :-)

A dinner was hosted by Jefferson, but the sunset timing was only made after it was requested by envoy Nelly-Nelly.

So, the dinner in question was not a matter of cultural outreach on Jefferson's part to begin with; and the timing of the dinner in deference to Ramadan was not brought into consideration until it was requested by the envoy. Indeed, Islam was part of early American history, but not exactly the way O implied with his dinner speech.

If this is historically correct, does he have no one on his speech-writing staff ever do any research? Or did they purposely overlook it?
According the Jefferson Encyclopedia, the emissary was actually sent to negotiate restitution for three Barbary ships captured by the USS Constitution and to seek annual tribute for "protection" of American commercial vessels sailing along the Barbary coast. See http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Tunisian_Envoy. Prior to the Revolution, American ships had been protected by the British, but that protection was withdrawn. American practice had been to pay tribute since it was cheaper than fighting. However, Jefferson objected and efforts were made to negotiate alternative arrangement. James Madison was assigned responsibility for arranging concubines for the emissary and his assistants. The Encyclopedia states, "Mellimelli was in Washington during Ramadan, a month-long period in which Muslims fast from sunrise to sunset. To accommodate his guest’s religious obligation, Jefferson’s invitation to the President’s House on December 9 changed the time of dinner from the usual “half after three” to “precisely at sunset.” " The dinner was also notable as one of the few times Adams was invited to dine with the President.

Gerry Clinchy
08-16-2010, 09:24 PM
Thanks, Jeff, for the clarification ... it makes more sense. I apologize for garbling the message as I was listening while driving.

But it seems safe to say that this event was not exactly the perception implied by O's words in his speech.

Yes, it did mention that the concubine issue was delegated to Madison. It also mentioned that MelliMelli told them he had go back with something of value or he would be beheaded for his failure.

Gerry Clinchy
08-18-2010, 08:59 AM
NY Times editorial:



So look where we are. The progressive Democrat in the White House, the first president of the United States with Muslim roots, has been morally trumped by Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, two moderate Republicans who have spoken bravely and lucidly about not demonizing and defaming an entire religion in the name of fighting its radicals.

Criticizing his fellow Republicans, Governor Christie said that while he understood the pain and sorrow of family members who lost loved ones on 9/11, “we cannot paint all of Islam with that brush.”

He charged the president with trying to turn the issue into a political football. But that is not quite right. It already was a political football and the president fumbled it.

Also in the editorial ... I can hardly believe that the NY Times actually published a positive comment about G.W. Bush



The war against the terrorists is not a war against Islam. In fact, you can’t have an effective war against the terrorists if it is a war on Islam.
George W. Bush understood this. And it is odd to see Barack Obama less clear about this matter than his predecessor. It’s time for W. to weigh in.

This — along with immigration reform and AIDS in Africa — was one of his points of light. As the man who twice went to war in the Muslim world, he has something of an obligation to add his anti-Islamophobia to this mosque madness. W. needs to get his bullhorn back out.

I would have to disagree with the presumption that building this particular massive mosque at this location would be a demonstration of our devotion to freedom of religion. That is how our cultural orientation would perceive it. Stan's thread indicates that the perception of other cultures would be quite different.

We could reflect that the American tendency to fail to take other cultural perspectives into account has resulted in that "ugly American" perception. Now it would become the "stupid Americans".

The laws must be followed, but the public should voice its objections to make it clear that they will follow laws, the project leaders are not showing the compassion they say their religion espouses; and that their pursuit of the project at this location will engender more tolerance, but rather the opposite.

Gerry Clinchy
08-18-2010, 12:21 PM
Sorry, this doesn't smell right


The imam behind a plan to build a mosque near Ground Zero is set to depart on a multi-country jaunt to the Middle East funded by the State Department (http://www.nypost.com/t/US_State_Department)-- raising concerns that taxpayers may be helping him with the controversial project's $100 million fund-raising goal.
Feisal Abdul Rauf is taking the publicly funded trip to foster "greater understanding" about Islam and Muslim communities in the United States, the State Department confirmed yesterday.




Crowley said no fund-raising for the mosque and cultural center during the trip would be permitted. "That would not be something he could do as part of our program," he said.
Abdul Rauf said funds for the center will come from Muslims and members of his congregation.
But a London-based Arabic-language newspaper that interviewed Abdul Rauf reported that he says he also will collect money from Muslim and Arab nations around the world -- raising the possibility his goodwill mission could help him build contacts in oil-rich states.
"Does the State Department have any idea they are sending a guy to the Middle East who is going to be fund-raising perhaps among the very same people he will be meeting with?" asked Debra Burlingame, a 9/11 family member.

"We know he has a fund-raising association with Saudi Arabia," Burlingame said, noting that the Saudis have contributed money to underwrite programs by the American Society for Muslim Advancement, a not-for-profit that Abdul Rauf runs with his wife and that is one of the sponsors of the Ground Zero mosque. "He's going to the well, and how can they say they do or don't know what he's doing?"

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/feds_funding_zero_imam_mideast_trip_OTq9dmoHpxbaKv JbB4VLGM#ixzz0wyiNZN7w


No wonder O mentioned the mosque in his dinner remarks. The very same person at the center of that controversy was going to be O's emissary in his "outreach" program to Islam. Quite a set-up.

I think the 9-11 victim's family member is correct ... only a total jerk would imagine that he was going to be glad-handing Muslim leaders on behalf of the Pres and that wasn't going to have any impact on his fund-raising. Separation of church & state? Certainly there is some other Muslim cleric in the US who could do this job?

More disturbingly, O would think the American public would not perceive this as a possible conflict of interest for Rauf.

Some info about the Imam from Wikopedia:


In 2004, he said the U.S. and the West must acknowledge the harm they have done to Muslims before terrorism can end. Speaking at his New York mosque, Abdul Rauf said:

The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets.

Sorry, to compare a nation at war to 9-11 is not a real good comparison.


He won non-binding support from the local Community Board (though it did not address the issue of a mosque, per se). He also received both support and opposition from some 9/11 families, politicians, organizations, academics, and others. The building of the mosque and community center, as well as the initiative itself, was supported by some Muslim American leaders and organizations, including CAIR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAIR), and criticized by some Muslims such as Sufi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufi) mysticist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticist) Suleiman Schwartz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Schwartz_(journalist)), who said that a building built by Rauf barely two blocks from ground zero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_site), is inconsistent with Sufi philosophy of simplicity of faith and sensitivity towards others.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feisal_Abdul_Rauf#cite_note-28) Supporters for Cordoba House point out that two Mosques in Lower Manhattan have firm roots, and one of them was found in 1970, pre-dating the World Trade Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center).[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feisal_Abdul_Rauf#cite_note-nytimes1-29)

I don't think anybody is making any furor over mosques that pre-date 9-11, so I don't see that they have anything to do with the idea of building a new mosque.

There are lots and lots of footnotes which I have to read yet ... since there are so many. So here is the URL to do your own research as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feisal_Abdul_Rauf

road kill
08-18-2010, 12:24 PM
Sorry, this doesn't smell right




No wonder O mentioned the mosque in his dinner remarks. The very same person at the center of that controversy was going to be O's emissary in his "outreach" program to Islam. Quite a set-up.

I think the 9-11 victim's family member is correct ... only a total jerk would imagine that he was going to be glad-handing Muslim leaders on behalf of the Pres and that wasn't going to have any impact on his fund-raising. Separation of church & state? Certainly there is some other Muslim cleric in the US who could do this job?

More disturbingly, O would think the American public would not perceive this as a possible conflict of interest for Rauf.
Some info about the Imam from Wikopedia:


Sorry, to compare a nation at war to 9-11 is not a real good comparison.



I don't think anybody is making any furor over mosques that pre-date 9-11, so I don't see that they have anything to do with the idea of building a new mosque.

There are lots and lots of footnotes which I have to read yet ... since there are so many. So here is the URL to do your own research as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feisal_Abdul_Rauf


[/INDENT]


Of course he does, he knows we are gullible, we elected him didn't we??



RK

Gerry Clinchy
08-19-2010, 08:55 AM
Also in the editorial ... I can hardly believe that the NY Times actually published a positive comment about G.W. Bush


This — along with immigration reform and AIDS in Africa — was one of his points of light. As the man who twice went to war in the Muslim world, he has something of an obligation to add his anti-Islamophobia to this mosque madness. W. needs to get his bullhorn back out.

This is really bad ... I'm quoting my own post :-)

Upon further thought, OMG! The NYT is crying out to bring Bush back to save the ship! Now that is really funny! Doesn't matter what side you favor, that is funny!

Did you ever think you would hear a NY Times editorial say, "We need Bush leadership" ... for anything at all?

Roger Perry
08-19-2010, 11:28 AM
I saw this video clip on the news this morning. Watch where President Bush had his hand during the pledge of allegiance. Sort of like crossing your fingers behind your back when making a promise.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/pres-obama-regrets-mosque-comments-11435224

WaterDogRem
08-19-2010, 01:35 PM
I saw this video clip on the news this morning. Watch where President Bush had his hand during the pledge of allegiance. Sort of like crossing your fingers behind your back when making a promise.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/pres-obama-regrets-mosque-comments-11435224

LOL, out of that entire segment all you saw what a still pic of Bush. Not Obama's comments (we're moving in the right direction and No regrets), with the great new unemployments numbers out today and the state of the economy.
Since we have gone over still photos plenty of times with Obama & others, I'll let true photographers like Yardley give the explanation he has about the Obama still photos.

Yardley please explain again, Thanks.