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View Full Version : Why no Mosque at Ground Zero?



dnf777
08-16-2010, 04:59 PM
Lots of discussion on both ends of the issue regarding the building of an Islamic Mosque/Community Center at Ground Zero. Why or why not?
I hear lots of talk about "big goobermint" staying out of private business, and this outcry seems to contradict the laissez faire attitude. While most would agree they don't want it built, I'm just wondering if folks feel it is Constitutionally justified to deny them the right to build based on their religion, or if a special exception should be made to deny them that ability?

After re-reading the Constitution, I have to vote to let build, even though I think its a bad idea.

M&K's Retrievers
08-16-2010, 06:26 PM
I didn't have to read the Constitution to know they have the right to build but hope that there are legal ways to prevent it or make it too difficult and expensive to pursue.

gman0046
08-16-2010, 06:43 PM
All Congress has to do is declare Ground Zero a National Monument and no mosque.

badbullgator
08-16-2010, 08:03 PM
All Congress has to do is declare Ground Zero a National Monument and no mosque.


So is this actually ground zero?

M&K's Retrievers
08-16-2010, 08:24 PM
So is this actually ground zero?

I don't think it is. Close tho...

Gerry Clinchy
08-16-2010, 08:25 PM
The poll is really not answerable ... in accordance with the Constitution, one cannot answer "no" based on insensitivity.

luvmylabs23139
08-16-2010, 08:36 PM
So is this actually ground zero?

Since part of the landing gear of one of the planes crashed thru the roof of the building one could argue that it is.

ducknwork
08-16-2010, 11:02 PM
The poll is really not answerable ... in accordance with the Constitution, one cannot answer "no" based on insensitivity.

Exactly. The people who propose to build it should be the ones to decide it is too insensitive to build it there.

Gerry Clinchy
08-16-2010, 11:20 PM
Exactly. The people who propose to build it should be the ones to decide it is too insensitive to build it there.

However, through freedom of speech, others may voice their objections so that those who propose to build it can be made aware of the insensitivity of the proposal.

depittydawg
08-16-2010, 11:48 PM
Lots of discussion on both ends of the issue regarding the building of an Islamic Mosque/Community Center at Ground Zero. Why or why not?
I hear lots of talk about "big goobermint" staying out of private business, and this outcry seems to contradict the laissez faire attitude. While most would agree they don't want it built, I'm just wondering if folks feel it is Constitutionally justified to deny them the right to build based on their religion, or if a special exception should be made to deny them that ability?

After re-reading the Constitution, I have to vote to let build, even though I think its a bad idea.

The fear and hate mongers have seized this issue for political gain. The fact is muslims represent a HUGE chunk of the population in and around the area in question. The other fact nobody seems willing to address is that the Muslim population of NY city did NOT blow up the trade center. A very small contingent of foreign fanatics who call themselves Muslims did. There is a difference. To blame all Muslims for the trade center destruction is akin to blaming all Jews for the death of Christ. It is ludicrous. Hate mongers are having a field day with this one.
Where Muslims, Jews, Christians, Atheists, or anybody else choose to worship is their business. Nobody with half a brain cares anyway.

M&K's Retrievers
08-17-2010, 12:04 AM
The fear and hate mongers have seized this issue for political gain. The fact is muslims represent a HUGE chunk of the population in and around the area in question. The other fact nobody seems willing to address is that the Muslim population of NY city did NOT blow up the trade center. A very small contingent of foreign fanatics who call themselves Muslims did. There is a difference. To blame all Muslims for the trade center destruction is akin to blaming all Jews for the death of Christ. It is ludicrous. Hate mongers are having a field day with this one.
Where Muslims, Jews, Christians, Atheists, or anybody else choose to worship is their business. Nobody with half a brain cares anyway.

That explains a lot. I should have known where the problem is.

depittydawg
08-17-2010, 12:09 AM
That explains a lot. I should have known where the problem is.

And for those that have less than half a functioning brain, issues like this are critical, aren't they.

M&K's Retrievers
08-17-2010, 12:41 AM
And for those that have less than half a functioning brain, issues like this are critical, aren't they.

Well, based on your logic, a large majority of the country has less than half a functioning brain.

dnf777
08-17-2010, 05:52 AM
Well, based on your logic, a large majority of the country has less than half a functioning brain.

I would agree on that.


Duck: then the answer would be the third one. It almost recites verbatim, your post.

ducknwork
08-17-2010, 06:28 AM
I would agree on that.


Duck: then the answer would be the third one. It almost recites verbatim, your post.

No, because your question references the Constitution. With regards to the Constitution, there is nothing to prevent it from being built. If your question said "Should the mosque be built?" then I would think that #3 is the correct answer.

badbullgator
08-17-2010, 07:30 AM
Since part of the landing gear of one of the planes crashed thru the roof of the building one could argue that it is.


Then again dust and debris covered most of the city and surronding areas, so should they be banned in say Brooklyn where plenty of dust landed?

They are allowed to build it, but IMHO they should not out of respect and to avoid possiable trouble. Still where exactly does the line end. Would it still be an issue if it was one more block away? How about 6 more blocks away? How about in the city at all?

cotts135
08-17-2010, 07:56 AM
I didn't have to read the Constitution to know they have the right to build but hope that there are legal ways to prevent it or make it too difficult and expensive to pursue.



Just want to make exceptions because of an affiliation to a religion do you? Well how about tomorrow we declare that Catholics can't build a church within 10 blocks from a school because.......well because we all know the problems with Catholic priests and young boys or maybe let's say we limit what Protestants can build down south because again we all know that most members of the KKK were Protestants........... I hope you get the point here, it's the principal to be free from discrimination that the Constitution clearly states that is important.

Look, there are some things that come with Free speech that I find truly repugnant, such as burning the flag, or protesting at soldiers funerals, but I believe sincerely that going down a slippery slope and restricting Free speech in more and more instances that we simply disagree with is far worse than allowing it to happen and not feeling to good about it. The same holds true for Religious discrimination

dnf777
08-17-2010, 08:03 AM
Just want to make exceptions because of an affiliation to a religion do you? Well how about tomorrow we declare that Catholics can't build a church within 10 blocks from a school because.......well because we all know the problems with Catholic priests and young boys or maybe let's say we limit what Protestants can build down south because again we all know that most members of the KKK were Protestants........... I hope you get the point here, it's the principal to be free from discrimination that the Constitution clearly states that is important.

Look, there are some things that come with Free speech that I find truly repugnant, such as burning the flag, or protesting at soldiers funerals, but I believe sincerely that going down a slippery slope and restricting Free speech in more and more instances that we simply disagree with is far worse than allowing it to happen and not feeling to good about it. The same holds true for Religious discrimination

That's the best way I've heard it said. Right on the mark.

I would wonder if Christians are banned from Waco, Texas....or Mormans from many states where polygamy was committed? I get your point perfectly.

david gibson
08-17-2010, 09:48 AM
the Dixie flag is all but banned.

i love Dixie. my ancestors fought for the south, and like most they didnt own or care about owning slaves. it wasnt about slavery for them. it was about states rights and the imbalance of federal funding of infrastructure vs taxes. there were other issues, you know.

but the KKK hijacked the flag and warped its symbolism. it has become a symbol of hate. although i have every right to proudly wear the flag and display it, i choose not to because i understand the hurt it causes.

i can be sensitive to others feelings and adjust, why cant they? i dont have to flaunt the bars and stars, why must they flaunt islam?

every day we make decisons in out personal lives not based on what we CAN do, but what we SHOULD do.

why cant they?

we are continually told we must tolerate and be sensitive to "their" feelings and religion.

why cant they reciprocate?

do they not see that all they are doing is cementing and fertilizing the hatred many in america have for islam? it is their intolerance that is the problem now.

the seeds you sow so shall ye reap

ducknwork
08-17-2010, 09:50 AM
^^case closed^^

Did that rainbow you saw the other day give you a double shot of wisdom?:D

BTW, welcome back...

dnf777
08-17-2010, 09:54 AM
the Dixie flag is all but banned.

i love Dixie. my ancestors fought for the south, and like most they didnt own or care about owning slaves. it wasnt about slavery for them. it was about states rights and the imbalance of federal funding of infrastructure vs taxes. there were other issues, you know.

but the KKK hijacked the flag and warped its symbolism. it has become a symbol of hate. although i have every right to proudly wear the flag and display it, i choose not to because i understand the hurt it causes.

i can be sensitive to others feelings and adjust, why cant they? i dont have to flaunt the bars and stars, why must they flaunt islam?

every day we make decisons in out personal lives not based on what we CAN do, but what we SHOULD do.

why cant they?

we are continually told we must tolerate and be sensitive to "their" feelings and religion.

why cant they reciprocate?

do they not see that all they are doing is cementing and fertilizing the hatred many in america have for islam? it is their intolerance that is the problem now.

the seeds you sow so shall ye reap

That is the BEST argument for them NOT building near GZ, while still maintaining their "right" to do so. Great analogy.

I felt the same way when the flag-banning movement was underway. Although, you had public and gov't institutions in question, not privately owned property as in this case, but the principle remains.

M&K's Retrievers
08-17-2010, 10:03 AM
Just want to make exceptions because of an affiliation to a religion do you? Well how about tomorrow we declare that Catholics can't build a church within 10 blocks from a school because.......well because we all know the problems with Catholic priests and young boys or maybe let's say we limit what Protestants can build down south because again we all know that most members of the KKK were Protestants........... I hope you get the point here, it's the principal to be free from discrimination that the Constitution clearly states that is important.

Look, there are some things that come with Free speech that I find truly repugnant, such as burning the flag, or protesting at soldiers funerals, but I believe sincerely that going down a slippery slope and restricting Free speech in more and more instances that we simply disagree with is far worse than allowing it to happen and not feeling to good about it. The same holds true for Religious discrimination

Oh, I agree but I was talking about legal ways to prevent it. As to protesting soldiers funerals, it's been tried around here and has met with no success thanks in part to group of Harley riders.

badbullgator
08-17-2010, 10:41 AM
Oh, I agree but I was talking about legal ways to prevent it. As to protesting soldiers funerals, it's been tried around here and has met with no success thanks in part to group of Harley riders.

See here is the problem with “legal” ways to prevent it. Today it seems like a good idea because after all they are Muslims and they hate us so it is OK to use a law to deny their constitutional right. That is a very slippery slope that can come back around to bite you in the ass. I am not a fan of using a law to prevent ANYONE form doing something that is a right. Kind of like malls putting up signs saying you cannot carry a concealed weapon in even if you have a permit and the right to carry. They are using trespass laws to try (of course it is just a suggestion in Florida and all they can do is ask you to leave IF they know you carry and if it is concealed they should never know you carry) deny your right to carry. Locally we just had a town try to use zoning laws to keep a Subway sandwich shop from opening in the downtown area. The real reason was because “they”, a very small but active group, wanted only nice restaurants in the down town area. That too is wrong. Rights (I know some of my examples are not actually rights) are not about popular opinion and that is what protects them as rights. I think if it were based on popular opinion satanic worship would be illegal (I am sure some here would like that idea), but in fact ALL religion is protected regardless of if 2 people practice it or millions do.
The best solution to this issue is for the people building this to decide for themselves not to build it. If they make this decision based on popular opinion that is fine, it is still their decision and not the masses denying them their constitutional rights. This is what I hope happens, that they use their better judgment and realize that this is a very sensitive issue and that building there will do far more harm than good. Time will tell, but I bet even if they do build it there in 2 years time nobody will care and all of us bitching about it on the internet will have not event thought about it.

gman0046
08-17-2010, 10:52 AM
Aside from the site controversy of the mosque, do you know the mosques Imam is on a tour of muslim countries and that their mosques are being renovated and rebuilt with good old USA tax dollars? WTF?

badbullgator
08-17-2010, 11:34 AM
gman. are you at work? that seems like a waste of good tax dollars as well if you are posting while at work :D
Pot meet kettle

Julie R.
08-17-2010, 11:47 AM
The fear and hate mongers have seized this issue for political gain. The fact is muslims represent a HUGE chunk of the population in and around the area in question. The other fact nobody seems willing to address is that the Muslim population of NY city did NOT blow up the trade center. A very small contingent of foreign fanatics who call themselves Muslims did. There is a difference. To blame all Muslims for the trade center destruction is akin to blaming all Jews for the death of Christ. It is ludicrous. Hate mongers are having a field day with this one.
Where Muslims, Jews, Christians, Atheists, or anybody else choose to worship is their business. Nobody with half a brain cares anyway.

If I truly believed the push to build this shrine in this location at this point in time was based on a desire to foster better understanding and acceptance of Islam, it wouldn't make me so uncomfortable. Apparently, the majority of people feel this way too. Perhaps I have a Pollyanna view, but I do not believe a majority of the U.S. population can be characterized as hate mongering racists.

While this sentiment of BBG's would be the best possible outcome:



The best solution to this issue is for the people building this to decide for themselves not to build it.

Sadly I believe they won't back down because those pushing for it came to this country to afford themselves of our freedoms while simultaneously using them to bludgeon us. I did not vote because of the wording "should". It should not be built, even though the Constitution provides that it could.

Eric Johnson
08-17-2010, 03:11 PM
I heard two things today which sort of disturb me.

1. This project did not go through the normal zoning/re-zoning process but rather they were given extraordinary approval to proceed.

2. A Greek Orthodox church was destroyed in the 9/11 attack. For some reason, the church was not allowed to rebuild by the City of New York. Since it was destroyed by the attack, one would presume that it was in at least the same proximity as this project.

Does anyone know whether these are true or not?

Eric

Gerry Clinchy
08-17-2010, 03:17 PM
It would appear that the Imam Rauf deserves more investigation into his motives.

Got some research to do on that ... but not until my new cellphone can be made to work!

road kill
08-17-2010, 03:28 PM
Since none of the "middle of the road independents" will comment on the thread on this, I will just share it here.

This is a damned good reason NOT to build this Mosque!!!


"It was my pleasure to ride with the Veterans of America Motocycle Club this past weekend.

Awesome bunch of men & women!!

It was my HONOR to have talked with a couple of fine young Marines just back from Iraq.
Terrific guys, intelligent, well spoken, courteous and respectful.
Something dramatically missing in so many today.

When the discussion turned to the Mosques it was quite disturbing what they had to share.

In Iraq, the Muslims are dancing in the streets and taunting the US personnel about their VICTORY in building the Mosque in the place where they brought America to it's knees.

They also claim that many of the Muslims beleive they have a Muslim in the Whitehouse.

Has anyone else heard this from any of our returning HERO'S??

These young warriors were stunned that there is no mention of this in the accomplice/press.

Now mind you, I have no links to support this, just the word of 2 MEN who just finished SERVING their country with HONOR and DIGNITY.


I am sure we will find a link from Huffington or a multi paragraph monologue opening with "Actually......blah blah blah...."

I am just sharing what these Marines told us.



In the off chance these men where HONEST about what they encountered, gives pause folks.


I highlighted some important words that some here have NO grasp of!!


RK

M&K's Retrievers
08-17-2010, 03:32 PM
It would appear that the Imam Rauf deserves more investigation into his motives.

Got some research to do on that ... but not until my new cellphone can be made to work!

You might start with:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2462

road kill
08-17-2010, 03:44 PM
My understanding is that Hamas is standing with Obama on this issue!!!:D



RK

dnf777
08-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Since none of the "middle of the road independents" will comment on the thread on this, I will just share it here.

This is a damned good reason NOT to build this Mosque!!!


"It was my pleasure to ride with the Veterans of America Motocycle Club this past weekend.

Awesome bunch of men & women!!

It was my HONOR to have talked with a couple of fine young Marines just back from Iraq.
Terrific guys, intelligent, well spoken, courteous and respectful.
Something dramatically missing in so many today.

When the discussion turned to the Mosques it was quite disturbing what they had to share.

In Iraq, the Muslims are dancing in the streets and taunting the US personnel about their VICTORY in building the Mosque in the place where they brought America to it's knees.

They also claim that many of the Muslims beleive they have a Muslim in the Whitehouse.

Has anyone else heard this from any of our returning HERO'S??

These young warriors were stunned that there is no mention of this in the accomplice/press.

Now mind you, I have no links to support this, just the word of 2 MEN who just finished SERVING their country with HONOR and DIGNITY.


I am sure we will find a link from Huffington or a multi paragraph monologue opening with "Actually......blah blah blah...."

I am just sharing what these Marines told us.



In the off chance these men where HONEST about what they encountered, gives pause folks.


I highlighted some important words that some here have NO grasp of!!


RK

The timeline here just doesn't add up. A reporter in Manhatten said he hadn't even heard of this until last week when the media picked it up. (is this the liberal media, BTW?) How could this news item be street knowledge on the other side of the world two weeks ago? Last weekend, plus travel, I/O processing, etc...at least two weeks ago, been street talk in Iraq? Just seems odd timing I guess.

road kill
08-17-2010, 04:40 PM
The timeline here just doesn't add up. A reporter in Manhatten said he hadn't even heard of this until last week when the media picked it up. (is this the liberal media, BTW?) How could this news item be street knowledge on the other side of the world two weeks ago? Last weekend, plus travel, I/O processing, etc...at least two weeks ago, been street talk in Iraq? Just seems odd timing I guess.

Like I said, they were shocked that there was no mention of it here.

But who knows, maybe they made it up.
If a reporter in Manhattan doesn't know about it then...........there is no way it could have started before he found out!!


I bet The Prez and the Mayor didn't know either, it all just popped up last week.

Yeah, your probably right, wait till I see those lieing Marines again!!:-x



RK

Hew
08-17-2010, 04:45 PM
The timeline here just doesn't add up. A reporter in Manhatten said he hadn't even heard of this until last week when the media picked it up. (is this the liberal media, BTW?) How could this news item be street knowledge on the other side of the world two weeks ago? Last weekend, plus travel, I/O processing, etc...at least two weeks ago, been street talk in Iraq? Just seems odd timing I guess.
Odd timing? It has been in the news for well over a month. It has been discussed here on Potus Place for over a month as well: http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57784

dnf777
08-17-2010, 06:04 PM
Like I said, they were shocked that there was no mention of it here.

But who knows, maybe they made it up.
If a reporter in Manhattan doesn't know about it then...........there is no way it could have started before he found out!!


I bet The Prez and the Mayor didn't know either, it all just popped up last week.

Yeah, your probably right, wait till I see those lieing Marines again!!:-x



RK

What do the muslim-Americans serving in the Marine Corps say about this?

road kill
08-17-2010, 06:10 PM
What do the muslim-Americans serving in the Marine Corps say about this?
Don't know any, do you?

In fact, I'll bet if you ask a Marine there are no "designated" Americans.
If you are a Marine, you are an American.


Any Marines that can help us with this???

Muslim American.....get out a town........






RK

david gibson
08-17-2010, 06:55 PM
i dont get it.

when because of societal evolution a phrase or word becomes offensive, we are told we can no longer use it. like the word "fag" - still used in parts of australia and used in a van morrison song, and faggot, originally a bundle of twigs.

and "nigger" - wasnt a bad word when mark twain used it, but it evolved and became so and therefore is no longer acceptable, hack, even "negro" is often frowned upon. you can add "queer" too. add to this how we offend others with prayer, display of the 10 commandments, in public etc etc - while all the while we have "in god we trust" emblazoned in or currency alongside the likenesses of our founding fathers. yet we must keep God out of the schools and other public venues? wouldnt you love to hear the reaction of the founders if they knew this?

we must be sensitive to other peoples feelings. so we bend and bend and adjust, and learn to accept it understand it.

but now here we have a mosque representing a religion that has declared jihad on america planned for the very hallowed site on which their most atrocious act against us was perpetrated.

and drop the crap about muslims dying in the towers also - we all know how these people dont care if they kill 100 of their own people so long as 1 american also dies. they are incapable of comprehending the futility of such actions.

yet WE are the ones that are being insensitive to THEM because we oppose this mosque? WE the majority must yield to the minority and allow them to offend and be insensitive to US, and if we dont, then we are labeled as being intolerant?

wtf? :confused:

this pretzel logic proves how insane things have become with the proliferation of extreme "civil liberation".

dnf777
08-17-2010, 07:03 PM
i dont get it.

when because of societal evolution a phrase or word becomes offensive, we are told we can no longer use it. like the word "fag" - still used in parts of australia and used in a van morrison song, and faggot, originally a bundle of twigs.

and "nigger" - wasnt a bad word when mark twain used it, but it evolved and became so and therefore is no longer acceptable, hack, even "negro" is often frowned upon. you can add "queer" too. add to this how we offend others with prayer, display of the 10 commandments, in public etc etc - while all the while we have "in god we trust" emblazoned in or currency alongside the likenesses of our founding fathers. yet we must keep God out of the schools and other public venues? wouldnt you love to hear the reaction of the founders if they knew this?

we must be sensitive to other peoples feelings. so we bend and bend and adjust, and learn to accept it understand it.

but now here we have a mosque representing a religion that has declared jihad on america planned for the very hallowed site on which their most atrocious act against us was perpetrated.

and drop the crap about muslims dying in the towers also - we all know how these people dont care if they kill 100 of their own people so long as 1 american also dies. they are incapable of comprehending the futility of such actions.

yet WE are the ones that are being insensitive to THEM because we oppose this mosque? WE the majority must yield to the minority and allow them to offend and be insensitive to US, and if we dont, then we are labeled as being intolerant?

wtf? :confused:

this pretzel logic proves how insane things have become with the proliferation of extreme "civil liberation".

Dave,
I feel the same way often times, but I also took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution", and that trumps my personal feelings.

The question is, do you think we have a legal right to block a private organization from constructing a place of worship on their private property?

Cody Covey
08-17-2010, 07:13 PM
/off topic

What the hell happened to David...I don't think he has name called once on this thread!
/on topic

This is one of those cool polls that has no right answer because of how it is worded. The legal answer if of course this can be built. The right answer is that it shouldn't be because of the sensitive area he is trying to do it in. If it was truly about unity and all that he could easily move it to another part of town and this issue would go away but instead of doing that and actually promoting unity the Imam is going to press the issue and create a divide instead. Also if you follow the money behind this project and the imam spearheading it, its very interesting to see who is behind it.

david gibson
08-17-2010, 07:23 PM
Dave,
I feel the same way often times, but I also took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution", and that trumps my personal feelings.

The question is, do you think we have a legal right to block a private organization from constructing a place of worship on their private property?

are you paying attention? no - that most certainly is NOT the question! we know we dont have the legal right!

i have the right to burn a cross on my property - and no one else has the legal right to stop me. but i wont do it because it is not the right thing to do and is insensitive. (plus i just dont think like that, its an analogy)

earlier i thought you understood this. but the bold quote above shows you are in lock step with your O man. clueless with what main stream america feels.

depittydawg
08-17-2010, 08:06 PM
Well, based on your logic, a large majority of the country has less than half a functioning brain.

Unfortunately, that has been obvious for quite some time. At least as far as politics go anyway. I must admit I've never understood how very intelligent people, allow themselves to be so easily manipulated by political and media propaganda. But then, prior to the rise of the Nazi's, I believe Germany was the most advanced and educated population on the planet.

road kill
08-17-2010, 08:15 PM
Unfortunately, that has been obvious for quite some time. At least as far as politics go anyway. I must admit I've never understood how very intelligent people, allow themselves to be so easily manipulated by political and media propaganda. But then, prior to the rise of the Nazi's, I believe Germany was the most advanced and educated population on the planet.
What is the definition of "NAZI?"

What was the first thing the NAZI's did in their rise to power??


RK

david gibson
08-17-2010, 08:32 PM
Unfortunately, that has been obvious for quite some time. At least as far as politics go anyway. I must admit I've never understood how very intelligent people, allow themselves to be so easily manipulated by political and media propaganda. But then, prior to the rise of the Nazi's, I believe Germany was the most advanced and educated population on the planet.

so what happened when the nazis rose to power? people's brains drained and their IQ plummeted and their technology regressed? did clocks actually run backwards? cars turned into carraiges? all in just a few years time span?

just because they were duped by a smooth-talking charlatan?

as scooby doo would say:

ruh roh, reer in rouble now. resident robama rs roo ruch rike ritler!

how do you keep coming up with this stuff??!!?

dnf777
08-17-2010, 09:05 PM
are you paying attention? no - that most certainly is NOT the question! we know we dont have the legal right!

i have the right to burn a cross on my property - and no one else has the legal right to stop me. but i wont do it because it is not the right thing to do and is insensitive. (plus i just dont think like that, its an analogy)

earlier i thought you understood this. but the bold quote above shows you are in lock step with your O man. clueless with what main stream america feels.

Easy big guy, no need to get your hackles up. It is NOT clear that many conservatives understand the constitutional right issue here. Not at all.

And Obama, like it or not, is right in step with the majority of Americans when he said legally, they have every right, and as chief executive, who is charged with carrying out and defending the Constitution, he must defend that right.

BTW, it came out today that one of these buildings has BEEN serving as a mosque for quite some time since 9-11, and there are also strip clubs already smearing this "hallowed ground". How do we address those issues?

dnf777
08-17-2010, 09:06 PM
What is the definition of "NAZI?"

What was the first thing the NAZI's did in their rise to power??


RK

Naomi Wolfe addresses this precisely in her book, "The End of America".
I highly recommend it.
I would think it could serve as a manual for the tea party even.

ducknwork
08-17-2010, 09:07 PM
there are also strip clubs already smearing this "hallowed ground". How do we address those issues?

Did naked women hijack two planes and kill 3,000 people?

No...Not an issue...:)

dnf777
08-17-2010, 09:08 PM
Did naked women hijack two planes and kill 3,000 people?

No...Not an issue...:)

Point taken. I still think they're insensitive, and as such, should be immediately moved to Franklin, Pa. All of the damn things!

road kill
08-17-2010, 09:08 PM
Naomi Wolfe addresses this precisely in her book, "The End of America".
I highly recommend it.
I would think it could serve as a manual for the tea party even.

You did not answer the questions and I am not surprised.


RK

depittydawg
08-17-2010, 09:25 PM
What is the definition of "NAZI?"

What was the first thing the NAZI's did in their rise to power??


RK

First thing they did was Get elected...

depittydawg
08-17-2010, 09:33 PM
so what happened when the nazis rose to power? people's brains drained and their IQ plummeted and their technology regressed? did clocks actually run backwards? cars turned into carraiges? all in just a few years time span?

just because they were duped by a smooth-talking charlatan?

as scooby doo would say:

ruh roh, reer in rouble now. resident robama rs roo ruch rike ritler!

how do you keep coming up with this stuff??!!?

What is so difficult to understand in the reference? The point David, is that Nazis got elected by duping enough voters, right wingers I might add, in what was at the time a democracy with a highly technically advanced and educated population. They did it first and foremost by separating the population and creating mass hysteria around race and fear. Sound famiiar? It should be. The right wing in America has adopted the same tactics, escalating further and further each year since about 1988. So far they have been extremely successful at duping the American public, or at least a large enough percentage (about 30%) to implement THEIR agenda.

Gerry Clinchy
08-17-2010, 09:36 PM
So far they have been extremely successful at duping the American public, or at least a large enough percentage (about 30%) to implement THEIR agenda.

Doesn't appear to be evident in the voting booth.

david gibson
08-17-2010, 09:56 PM
Did naked women hijack two planes and kill 3,000 people?

No...Not an issue...:)

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

david gibson
08-17-2010, 09:58 PM
What is so difficult to understand in the reference? The point David, is that Nazis got elected by duping enough voters, right wingers I might add, in what was at the time a democracy with a highly technically advanced and educated population. They did it first and foremost by separating the population and creating mass hysteria around race and fear. Sound famiiar? It should be. The right wing in America has adopted the same tactics, escalating further and further each year since about 1988. So far they have been extremely successful at duping the American public, or at least a large enough percentage (about 30%) to implement THEIR agenda.

please, please tell me this is a joke. i am not even going to waste my time trying to set you straight. this is the most ignorant thing you have ever written in here, and that is saying a lot.

holy crap.

depittydawg
08-17-2010, 10:01 PM
Did naked women hijack two planes and kill 3,000 people?

No...Not an issue...:)

Did NY Muslims hyjack planes and destroy their city? No. Not an issue. They were Saudi Nationals. Why don't you guys start calling the Hyjackers Saudi's. Saudi IS the nesting ground for radical Islam. It has nothing to do with American Muslims. No more so than Timothy McVea was representative of American Christians.

dnf777
08-17-2010, 10:30 PM
You did not answer the questions and I am not surprised.


RK

First and foremost, keep in mind that Hitler, Moussolini, and Castro all rose to power within the confines of democracies. They did not sieze power by coup.

Control the press. We saw this with the "free speech zones" whereby protestors were not allowed within camera view of Mr. Bush.

Increase surveillance of the civilian population. You don't have to watch everyone, just make them wonder if they're being watched, and you will alter behavior.

Establish a para-military organization answerable only to the executive, and not congress or other representative voices. Blackwater. Or is it Ze now?

Set examples of defiants being punished without due process, so people lose the sense of freedom of expression or redress. Gitmo.

I offered you a reference if you care to hear more. These are not my original ideas, nor probably are they Naomi Wolfs. They are historical observations. I encourage you to read her book. It is a real eye-opener as to what's going on in this country, and how power transferred from the governed to the government.

http://www.amazon.com/End-America-Letter-Warning-Patriot/dp/1933392797/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282098524&sr=1-1

Buzz
08-18-2010, 12:22 AM
I offered you a reference if you care to hear more. These are not my original ideas, nor probably are they Naomi Wolfs. They are historical observations. I encourage you to read her book. It is a real eye-opener as to what's going on in this country, and how power transferred from the governed to the government.

http://www.amazon.com/End-America-Letter-Warning-Patriot/dp/1933392797/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282098524&sr=1-1

It's on Audible, excellent.

Don Horstman
08-18-2010, 12:29 AM
The bottom line is your entire premise is flawed because of how the poll questions are phrased. There is no constitutional protection to build a mosque, church, or any other religous, non-religous, or secular structure anywhere you choose to build it. That power lies with the local zoning authority, and unfortunately those politically correct idiots chose to give up the historical exemption, that they usually protect very strictly, and they decided to allow this to move forward. Seems odd that a Greek Orthodox church is having more problems trying to rebuild than a group that wants to construct a new mosque on ground that had a historical designation.

While I completely disagree with this site being chosen, the local zoning idiots have spoken, and legally that is the end of the legal discussion. I also disagree with the governor making the offer to give them state owned ground to build the mosque. That is a definite church vs. state no-no. I liked an earlier post that discussed what the mosque developers are hoping to accomplish. If they truly want to build bridges and develop understanding between cultures and religions they would not build here. If you look into the founder of this group he is anything but tolerant, and has a lot of friends who are not very nice people. Just makes you wonder what his real motives are in this situation.

dnf777
08-18-2010, 05:55 AM
The bottom line is your entire premise is flawed because of how the poll questions are phrased. There is no constitutional protection to build a mosque, church, or any other religous, non-religous, or secular structure anywhere you choose to build it. That power lies with the local zoning authority, and unfortunately those politically correct idiots chose to give up the historical exemption, that they usually protect very strictly, and they decided to allow this to move forward. Seems odd that a Greek Orthodox church is having more problems trying to rebuild than a group that wants to construct a new mosque on ground that had a historical designation.

While I completely disagree with this site being chosen, the local zoning idiots have spoken, and legally that is the end of the legal discussion. I also disagree with the governor making the offer to give them state owned ground to build the mosque. That is a definite church vs. state no-no. I liked an earlier post that discussed what the mosque developers are hoping to accomplish. If they truly want to build bridges and develop understanding between cultures and religions they would not build here. If you look into the founder of this group he is anything but tolerant, and has a lot of friends who are not very nice people. Just makes you wonder what his real motives are in this situation.

I think you basically rephrased option #1. The law is the law, they have the proper permits, and like it or not, they have a right to build there now just like strip clubs, dance halls, Synagogues, or any other group that is entitled to equal protection. There is no constitutional protection specifically aimed at this particular group's right to build, you are correct. But the local, state, etc...have spoken as you also pointed out, so for the federal gov't to step in now and override local laws (thought we didn't like big goobermint butting in?) would be discrimination based on religion, and THAT violates the first Amendment.

Our entire country was colonized, formed, and founded based on people escaping religious persecution from Europe. For us to turn around now and do just that, would really make us all hypocrites.

I highlighted "new mosque" because I heard reports that the one building has BEEN serving as a mosque since 9-11, without fanfare or incident.

road kill
08-18-2010, 07:16 AM
I think you basically rephrased option #1. The law is the law, they have the proper permits, and like it or not, they have a right to build there now just like strip clubs, dance halls, Synagogues, or any other group that is entitled to equal protection. There is no constitutional protection specifically aimed at this particular group's right to build, you are correct. But the local, state, etc...have spoken as you also pointed out, so for the federal gov't to step in now and override local laws (thought we didn't like big goobermint butting in?) would be discrimination based on religion, and THAT violates the first Amendment.

Our entire country was colonized, formed, and founded based on people escaping religious persecution from Europe. For us to turn around now and do just that, would really make us all hypocrites.

I highlighted "new mosque" because I heard reports that the one building has BEEN serving as a mosque since 9-11, without fanfare or incident.

:rolleyes:



RK

YardleyLabs
08-18-2010, 07:40 AM
The bottom line is your entire premise is flawed because of how the poll questions are phrased. There is no constitutional protection to build a mosque, church, or any other religous, non-religous, or secular structure anywhere you choose to build it. That power lies with the local zoning authority, and unfortunately those politically correct idiots chose to give up the historical exemption, that they usually protect very strictly, and they decided to allow this to move forward. Seems odd that a Greek Orthodox church is having more problems trying to rebuild than a group that wants to construct a new mosque on ground that had a historical designation.

While I completely disagree with this site being chosen, the local zoning idiots have spoken, and legally that is the end of the legal discussion. I also disagree with the governor making the offer to give them state owned ground to build the mosque. That is a definite church vs. state no-no. I liked an earlier post that discussed what the mosque developers are hoping to accomplish. If they truly want to build bridges and develop understanding between cultures and religions they would not build here. If you look into the founder of this group he is anything but tolerant, and has a lot of friends who are not very nice people. Just makes you wonder what his real motives are in this situation.
First it is hard to say that the Greek Orthodox church is having problems getting permissions to rebuild. That is not their problem at all. They can rebuild at any time they want on their original site and the Port Authority has offered them fair market value for the underground rights for that site since those are used for train traffic. However, that is not what the church wants. It wants $60 million in public funds. Apparently that was offered by former (Republican/Conservative) Governor Pataki. However, the Church, according to Port Authority sources, kept pushing for more and was told to go ahead and rebuild on its own. Now it wants the original deal back again. It's hard to tell what the facts are, but I don't see the mosque asking the government to pay the bills for their construction. Personally, I can't understand why a governmental corporation would have been paying for a church anyway. See http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/17/ground-zero-church-archdiocese-says-officials-forgot/

Second, the Landmarks Commission did not lift historical designation from the site proposed for the mosque, it denied requests that the property be designated as a landmark. It had never been designated as a landmark before. The reason for the denial? The building has no discernible historical value. The only reason for designating it as a landmark would have been to prevent the cultural center. Instead, the city would have been left with an abandoned Burlington Coat warehouse as a permanent blight since landmark designation would have prevented anyone else from using the property unless they guaranteed to preserve its exterior.

road kill
08-18-2010, 07:56 AM
Mr. Yardley,
The latest "poll" 3's indicate that almost 2/3's (62%) are against the Mosque at this location.

How can so many be so wrong and you have it right?


Are 60%= of us just fools?

Could the 40% maybe have it wrong?

I ask YOU because as much as I disagree with you, at least you admit who and what you are, you don't try to hide it and your positions are consistant.

Your opinion on these 60%+ please.



RK

dnf777
08-18-2010, 08:00 AM
:rolleyes:



RK

That is precicely why I prefaced that as I did.


So you favor suspending the Bill of Rights when it suits your religious intolerance? (you know, to address the real question at hand?)

dnf777
08-18-2010, 08:04 AM
Mr. Yardley,
The latest "poll" 3's indicate that almost 2/3's (62%) are against the Mosque at this location.

How can so many be so wrong and you have it right?


Are 60%= of us just fools?

Could the 40% maybe have it wrong?

I ask YOU because as much as I disagree with you, at least you admit who and what you are, you don't try to hide it and your positions are consistant.

Your opinion on these 60%+ please.



RK

I bet polls would show that 60% of us don't like Barry Manilow, but you don't ban him from the radio. As I pointed out in a previous post, a simple majority is not the end-all in a constitutional democracy. If that were so, we would not need a Supreme Court, would we? Again, I give the example of desegregation. Not many southern states could muster a majority support to desegregate public places and schools. It took the courts to override a majority who wanted the status quo.

road kill
08-18-2010, 08:12 AM
That is precicely why I prefaced that as I did.


So you favor suspending the Bill of Rights when it suits your religious intolerance? (you know, to address the real question at hand?)

:rolleyes:



RK

road kill
08-18-2010, 08:13 AM
I bet polls would show that 60% of us don't like Barry Manilow, but you don't ban him from the radio. As I pointed out in a previous post, a simple majority is not the end-all in a constitutional democracy. If that were so, we would not need a Supreme Court, would we? Again, I give the example of desegregation. Not many southern states could muster a majority support to desegregate public places and schools. It took the courts to override a majority who wanted the status quo.

What building did he fly a plane into??:rolleyes:




RK

YardleyLabs
08-18-2010, 08:18 AM
Mr. Yardley,
The latest "poll" 3's indicate that almost 2/3's (62%) are against the Mosque at this location.

How can so many be so wrong and you have it right?


Are 60%= of us just fools?

Could the 40% maybe have it wrong?

I ask YOU because as much as I disagree with you, at least you admit who and what you are, you don't try to hide it and your positions are consistant.

Your opinion on these 60%+ please.



RK
Actually, Fox got their polling right. They asked two questions: Should the mosque be built - large majority says no. Do the owners of the property have the right to build a mosque if zoning requirements are met - large majority say yes. I think the public is pretty smart until those with simple minds try to put words into their mouths (sometimes, unfortunately, with success).

road kill
08-18-2010, 08:28 AM
Actually, Fox got their polling right. They asked two questions: Should the mosque be built - large majority says no. Do the owners of the property have the right to build a mosque if zoning requirements are met - large majority say yes. I think the public is pretty smart until those with simple minds try to put words into their mouths (sometimes, unfortunately, with success).
The dichotomy to me (though maybe not even) is my concern for our rights and the abuse of them.
And my concern over the reason behind this and my feelings about what happened there.
Struggling to reconcile.


RK

dnf777
08-18-2010, 08:50 AM
What building did he fly a plane into??:rolleyes:




RK

None, of course. The point I was trying to make, and I'm sure you got, was we don't strip people of their civil liberties because we don't like them.

Would you be opposed to a Catholic Church being built near ground zero?
Would you be opposed to a Jewish synogouge being built?
Would you be opposed to a Buddist temple being built at GZ?
Would you be opposed to a Muslim mosque being built?
How bout a Mormon worship center?

Your proposing that we should not let a group of worshippers build becasue of the particular brand of religion they practice.

Jeez! I can't believe I'm sticking up for Muslims' rights to build a mosque! I guess its just that darn Bill of Rights and American values again! I still hope they decide to build elsewhere myself, but would not feel right telling them they HAD to.

david gibson
08-18-2010, 09:48 AM
None, of course. The point I was trying to make, and I'm sure you got, was we don't strip people of their civil liberties because we don't like them.

Would you be opposed to a Catholic Church being built near ground zero?
Would you be opposed to a Jewish synogouge being built?
Would you be opposed to a Buddist temple being built at GZ?
Would you be opposed to a Muslim mosque being built?
How bout a Mormon worship center?

Your proposing that we should not let a group of worshippers build becasue of the particular brand of religion they practice.

Jeez! I can't believe I'm sticking up for Muslims' rights to build a mosque!

doesnt surprise me at all! you dont get it, and cant keep to the correct points of the debate!

<<<<
Your proposing that we should not let a group of worshippers build becasue of the particular brand of religion they practice.
>>>>

stop the stupidity! its not the "particular brand" - its because these people have declared war on us and they attacked us there!

did buddhists fly planes into the towers?? did mormans??? i dont agree with those religions either, and wouldnt care if they built there, and niether would anyone else. this has been pounded over and over and you still dont get it. you are arguing just for the sake of arguing against conservatives, and you are consistently arguing the wrong points!

kjrice
08-18-2010, 09:52 AM
What building did he fly a plane into??:rolleyes:




RK
None but he flew his gawd awful music in my ear once.

kjrice
08-18-2010, 10:04 AM
Nobody is against a mosque being built, JUST NOT AT THAT LOCATION! For anyone, other than an Al Qaeda sympathizer, to suggest it is okay is beyond comprehension.

M&K's Retrievers
08-18-2010, 10:05 AM
I bet polls would show that 60% of us don't like Barry Manilow, but you don't ban him from the radio. As I pointed out in a previous post, a simple majority is not the end-all in a constitutional democracy. If that were so, we would not need a Supreme Court, would we? Again, I give the example of desegregation. Not many southern states could muster a majority support to desegregate public places and schools. It took the courts to override a majority who wanted the status quo.

He is banned from my radio.:cool:

dnf777
08-18-2010, 11:31 AM
Nobody is against a mosque being built, JUST NOT AT THAT LOCATION! For anyone, other than an Al Qaeda sympathizer, to suggest it is okay is beyond comprehension.

If they own or lease the ground legally, it is beyond comprehension to crap on the Bill of Rights as you suggest! I don't like it either, but my belief in our American Liberties supercedes my dislike for this situation.

YOU don't get to decide what other citizens do, nor should the government. I thought that was a conservative principle??

kjrice
08-18-2010, 11:40 AM
If they own or lease the ground legally, it is beyond comprehension to crap on the Bill of Rights as you suggest! I don't like it either, but my belief in our American Liberties supercedes my dislike for this situation.

YOU don't get to decide what other citizens do, nor should the government. I thought that was a conservative principle??
So if you own property the government cannot exercise eminent domain?

david gibson
08-18-2010, 11:41 AM
If they own or lease the ground legally, it is beyond comprehension to crap on the Bill of Rights as you suggest! I don't like it either, but my belief in our American Liberties supercedes my dislike for this situation.

YOU don't get to decide what other citizens do, nor should the government. I thought that was a conservative principle??

you STILL dont get it, do you? so we have to bend to their sensitivities but NOBODY ever has to bend to ours?

i have made this argument before, and you actually agreed to it.
if ANYONE says they are offended at ANYTHING we do or say, we must alter our behavior.

well GD-it, WE are now OFFENDED and we demand equal rights in our right to be offended! no GD mosque!

legal rights to build have nothing to do with it!

if they did the right thing they would smooth relations with mainstream america, as it is, they are only making us hate them more than they hate us.

bring it on. you ask for it, you get it. this is legal and bullying and insult on their part, pure and simple.

black0989
08-18-2010, 11:48 AM
To be correct, saying that it was "The Muslims" that flew planes on 9/11 is not one hundred percent accurate. It was actually the Mujahideen, or the "freedom-fighters" aka. Al-queida. Saying that the muslims cant have their Mosque there, is not right. Thats liking blaming Jews for the biblical wars in the middle east, when its the Zionists, or blaming Christians for the things that Westboro Baptist Church does. Its extremist of a group, that cause the stereotype, and mainstream America buys into it.


BTW, I'm not for it, I'm a Marine, and for me to agree with it would be ridiculous, but Im also not ignorant, and if they take the steps needed to build the Mosque so be it. Theres still some people down here in the south thatll take care of it sooner or later :)

Julie R.
08-18-2010, 11:58 AM
That is precicely why I prefaced that as I did.


So you favor suspending the Bill of Rights when it suits your religious intolerance? (you know, to address the real question at hand?)

And precisely why did you open your poll with the question phrased "Should the mosque be built"? It kind of negates even having a poll. As I noted in an earlier post:



It should not be built, even though the Constitution provides that it could.


Emphasis, although already obvious, added.

ducknwork
08-18-2010, 12:06 PM
Saying that the muslims cant have their Mosque there, is not right.

That little word is what all of you can't freaking understand! NOBODY has said even once that they CAN'T have it there. It has been stated God only knows how many times on this thread, by people from EVERY SIDE, that legally, we know they have the right to build there. The objection is what DG has explained twice now, very clearly each time--the builders of the mosque should take it upon themselves, if their intent is truly what they say it is, to be sensitive to the history of that area and build it somewhere else. That would do more good for their muslim relations and perception in this country than any 'cultural center' could ever do. They are the only ones who can make the choice to build elsewhere. We all understand that. (read that sentence again DNF) So what is there left to argue about?:confused:

Tom D
08-18-2010, 12:07 PM
Ok here is a twist to the building Mosque. Who is going to build it? Living here in the northeast we still have some of the strongest unions in this country.

You think the iron workers and carpenter unions are going to build the Mosque

paul young
08-18-2010, 12:17 PM
who actually owns the land that is to be the construction site?

i would think they are the ones responsible for this. they control the real estate. -Paul

dnf777
08-18-2010, 12:19 PM
So if you own property the government cannot exercise eminent domain?

That is a completely different situation, and set of circumstances altogether.

black0989
08-18-2010, 12:20 PM
But the deal is, America doesnt want it there because "muslims" attacked us on 9/11, when it was the Mujahideen, so technically they have the right to put it there, which you already stated.

regardless, Im not agreeing with it, I dont want it there, as the majority dont, but theres nothing that can be done if they take the steps to get it. America should enlighten themselves. Ive done two deployments, the majority of people in country, are grateful for us being there, some of the nicest people youll meet, but america doesnt see that, as usual.

dnf777
08-18-2010, 12:22 PM
you STILL dont get it, do you? so we have to bend to their sensitivities but NOBODY ever has to bend to ours?

i have made this argument before, and you actually agreed to it.
if ANYONE says they are offended at ANYTHING we do or say, we must alter our behavior.

well GD-it, WE are now OFFENDED and we demand equal rights in our right to be offended! no GD mosque!

legal rights to build have nothing to do with it!

if they did the right thing they would smooth relations with mainstream america, as it is, they are only making us hate them more than they hate us.

bring it on. you ask for it, you get it. this is legal and bullying and insult on their part, pure and simple.


Dave,
I DO agree with you sensitivites on this matter, but I am not willing to say GD-throw away our principles to suit our sensitivities! Bullying, smoothing, being sensitive are all nice, but the law is the law. We in America do not discriminate based upon religion, and big goobermint stepping in would be just that.

ducknwork
08-18-2010, 12:28 PM
Dave,
I DO agree with you sensitivites on this matter, but I am not willing to say GD-throw away our principles to suit our sensitivities! Bullying, smoothing, being sensitive are all nice, but the law is the law. We in America do not discriminate based upon religion, and big goobermint stepping in would be just that.

Nobody has said that. Are you making it up in your own head to accuse us of saying so you can argue about it?

Seriously, we all are in agreement here. What is there left to argue about?

dnf777
08-18-2010, 12:29 PM
Theres still some people down here in the south thatll take care of it sooner or later :)

That is my greatest fear, and why I hope they just choose to avoid this conflict by building elsewhere.

If some ignorant idiot (the south doesn't have a lock on that, BTW) bombs or vandalized that mosque, how long do you really think it will be before a church or daycare center is bombed by an islamic extremist ignorant idiot? Do you really want our streets to be like the middle east where we have funeral bombings?

I wish the islamic terrorists and the home-grown nut-jobs we have here would just get together on an island somewhere with a bunch of guns and dynamite and have at each other, and leave the majority of Muslims and Christians who want nothing to do with violence the hell alone!

That kind of talk in your quote above is very scary indeed, because there are no winners. Only shattered families, usually innocent people who want nothing of the sort.

kjrice
08-18-2010, 12:43 PM
That is a completely different situation, and set of circumstances altogether.
It is? Eminent domain or condemnation is not used for safety purposes or the benefit of the public?

david gibson
08-18-2010, 01:04 PM
That little word is what all of you can't freaking understand! NOBODY has said even once that they CAN'T have it there. It has been stated God only knows how many times on this thread, by people from EVERY SIDE, that legally, we know they have the right to build there. The objection is what DG has explained twice now, very clearly each time--the builders of the mosque should take it upon themselves, if their intent is truly what they say it is, to be sensitive to the history of that area and build it somewhere else. That would do more good for their muslim relations and perception in this country than any 'cultural center' could ever do. They are the only ones who can make the choice to build elsewhere. We all understand that. (read that sentence again DNF) So what is there left to argue about?:confused:

thank you - this guys skull is so thick its a wonder he can think at all. seriously - his inability to grasp the concept and insistence to continually argue the wrong point speaks volumes. he is far more closed- minded and unable to listen to the other side than he has ever accused conservatives as being. he argues just to argue against anyone with a conservative viewpoint, and clearly has his mind made up beforehand. this thread has exposed all i need to know about him, my opinion was never exceptionally high of him seeing he is a such a liberal, but now it is even lower.

he still hasnt heard a thing we have said. sad, really.

charly_t
08-18-2010, 01:41 PM
Uuummmm......let 'em build it..........us Okies have an answer for it..........smuggle in a lot of little piggies when it's done. Now lest some of you read this wrong it a TIC comment. Lots of LOLs regards.

black0989
08-18-2010, 01:48 PM
haha...mmmmmmmm bacon fried pork chops

Pals
08-18-2010, 01:55 PM
Now Pelosi-in her infinite wisdom is calling for a probe of the "oppostion" to the mosque. Seriously? She is really moving up my list of most loathed politicians.

david gibson
08-18-2010, 01:58 PM
Now Pelosi-in her infinite wisdom is calling for a probe of the "oppostion" to the mosque. Seriously? She is really moving up my list of most loathed politicians.

and she needs to start with harry reid.

david gibson
08-18-2010, 02:06 PM
Uuummmm......let 'em build it..........us Okies have an answer for it..........smuggle in a lot of little piggies when it's done. Now lest some of you read this wrong it a TIC comment. Lots of LOLs regards.

you are a genius!!!!!

we can start a movement - maybe open up a "piggie" shop down the street. we sell tiny little easily-smuggled packets of pig hair, skin, ear wax - whatever, even real bacon bits, anything that is not a potential health threat - and people buy them and rub them on the walls of the mosque, drop them on the floor and step on them, stash them all over the place - drawers, cabinets, lockers, just totally pig-ify the place! profits go to 9-11 children who lost a parent.

now just watch - "they" will oppose and prevent the opening of the "piggie shop" because we would be being insensitive to sell pig parts so close to a mosque....:rolleyes: you KNOW that would happen.....

gman0046
08-18-2010, 02:23 PM
After Pelosi completes her probe and finds out who is in opposition to building the mosque, maybe she could have Shariah law applied and have the culprits stoned or beheaded.

road kill
08-18-2010, 02:29 PM
you are a genius!!!!!

we can start a movement - maybe open up a "piggie" shop down the street. we sell tiny little easily-smuggled packets of pig hair, skin, ear wax - whatever, even real bacon bits, anything that is not a potential health threat - and people buy them and rub them on the walls of the mosque, drop them on the floor and step on them, stash them all over the place - drawers, cabinets, lockers, just totally pig-ify the place! profits go to 9-11 children who lost a parent.

now just watch - "they" will oppose and prevent the opening of the "piggie shop" because we would be being insensitive to sell pig parts so close to a mosque....:rolleyes: you KNOW that would happen.....

BBQ ribs across the street!!



RK:D

kjrice
08-18-2010, 02:32 PM
After Pelosi completes her probe and finds out who is in opposition to building the mosque, maybe she could have Shariah law applied and have the culprits stoned or beheaded.
Stoned with cans of tuna from the company her husband runs.

charly_t
08-18-2010, 02:34 PM
you are a genius!!!!!

we can start a movement - maybe open up a "piggie" shop down the street. we sell tiny little easily-smuggled packets of pig hair, skin, ear wax - whatever, even real bacon bits, anything that is not a potential health threat - and people buy them and rub them on the walls of the mosque, drop them on the floor and step on them, stash them all over the place - drawers, cabinets, lockers, just totally pig-ify the place! profits go to 9-11 children who lost a parent.

now just watch - "they" will oppose and prevent the opening of the "piggie shop" because we would be being insensitive to sell pig parts so close to a mosque....:rolleyes: you KNOW that would happen.....

Can't take credit for it..........I just remembered the comment about a pigskin ( football ) and "ran" with that thought. :-)

ducknwork
08-18-2010, 03:15 PM
BBQ ribs across the street!!



RK:D

You beat me to it. I think I'll open up a true Eastern NC BBQ joint next door.:D Vinegar sauce anybody?

Mmmmmm mmmm good regards,

PS Bet I can get the little ragheads to come over for some hushpuppies.




(DNF, that wasn't a racist comment...;))

luvmylabs23139
08-18-2010, 03:17 PM
Allah's Pig Sty in The Sky
Magic Muhammad's Marvelous BBQ Shack
Swine Sensations

ducknwork
08-18-2010, 03:22 PM
Hey luv, don't know where you are in NC, but you like ENC Q, right? What's your favorite joint?

luvmylabs23139
08-18-2010, 03:27 PM
What is ENC Q? I'm originally from CT, then VA.

ducknwork
08-18-2010, 03:29 PM
What is ENC Q? I'm originally from CT, then VA.

Heaven help you...:(

Vinegar based BBQ sauce. Where do you live? We need to hold a Q intervention ASAP.

M&K's Retrievers
08-18-2010, 03:31 PM
The Juicy Pig

cotts135
08-18-2010, 03:48 PM
What building did he fly a plane into??:rolleyes:




RK

This is some seriously flawed logic here RK. Since Barry Manilow did not fly an airplane into a building according to you, he should be allowed to build whatever he might like near ground zero. Since the Imam also did not fly a plane into a building why should he not be able to build what he might like near ground zero. :D

Captain Mike D
08-18-2010, 04:00 PM
/off topic

Also if you follow the money behind this project and the imam spearheading it, its very interesting to see who is behind it.

That would be to logical!!


Ms Pelosi stated today that she would rather find out the funding of the opposition to it.

I have seen several Muslims interviewed that felt that a Mosque in that location was inappropriate

Hew
08-18-2010, 04:13 PM
First and foremost, keep in mind that Hitler, Moussolini, and Castro all rose to power within the confines of democracies. They did not sieze power by coup.
Sweet fancy Moses. Anybody who first and foremost keeps the above historically inaccurate nonsense in their mind will be doing their brain cells a serious disservice. Hopefully your Constitution lecture series you're in the middle of isn't similarly riddled with misremembered history lessons.

road kill
08-18-2010, 04:43 PM
This is some seriously flawed logic here RK. Since Barry Manilow did not fly an airplane into a building according to you, he should be allowed to build whatever he might like near ground zero. Since the Imam also did not fly a plane into a building why should he not be able to build what he might like near ground zero. :D

Not to me....your boy Dave;


"Quote:
Originally Posted by dnf777
I bet polls would show that 60% of us don't like Barry Manilow, but you don't ban him from the radio. As I pointed out in a previous post, a simple majority is not the end-all in a constitutional democracy. If that were so, we would not need a Supreme Court, would we? Again, I give the example of desegregation. Not many southern states could muster a majority support to desegregate public places and schools. It took the courts to override a majority who wanted the status quo. "

And we agree, it is some seriously flawed logic!!
:D
RK

charly_t
08-20-2010, 03:24 PM
you are a genius!!!!!

we can start a movement - maybe open up a "piggie" shop down the street. we sell tiny little easily-smuggled packets of pig hair, skin, ear wax - whatever, even real bacon bits, anything that is not a potential health threat - and people buy them and rub them on the walls of the mosque, drop them on the floor and step on them, stash them all over the place - drawers, cabinets, lockers, just totally pig-ify the place! profits go to 9-11 children who lost a parent.

now just watch - "they" will oppose and prevent the opening of the "piggie shop" because we would be being insensitive to sell pig parts so close to a mosque....:rolleyes: you KNOW that would happen.....

Actually I had more of a greased pig catching contest in mind. Got to smuggle in food and water cups (and feed of course). Turn little greased porkies loose on each floor and watch the fun. My minds runs on in typical fashion to lots of unclean floors etc. And who will be willing to catch the little piglets. I am an evil person !

Bubba
08-20-2010, 03:32 PM
I could have my Uncle Guido hook up the pumper trucks to the sewage system in the mosque. Turn that bad boy into a 13 story tower of Jimmie Dean pork sausage.

Backfilled regards

Bubba

aandw
08-20-2010, 04:08 PM
I could have my Uncle Guido hook up the pumper trucks to the sewage system in the mosque. Turn that bad boy into a 13 story tower of Jimmie Dean pork sausage.

Backfilled regards

Bubba

reminds me of a funny story that happened in my home town. sewage line was stopped up, the workers couldn't fix it and decided to blow the line open. they tried and didn't work until one worker told the others "to get out of the way and (you guessed it) watch this". he cleared the line and in the process blew sewage all over the inside of a house. the owners had to gut the whole house, then they sold it.
it was a part time home near the lake and they weren't there at the time. true story/

MarkyMark
09-06-2010, 08:46 PM
http://tinyurl.com/246szhf

YardleyLabs
09-06-2010, 08:51 PM
http://tinyurl.com/246szhf
He will run into some difficulties since NYS liquor laws do not allow a liquor license to be issued for a location within 200 feet of a place of worship. The building in question has been in use as a mosque since the property was first purchased because of a lack of sufficient place at the main mosque s few blocks away.

Bubba
09-06-2010, 09:22 PM
Dosen't say that I can't set up my Itralian pork sausage grinder stand right at the front door - cooking USDA approved pork over a Koran fire-- Smells like Victory!!!!

I'm thinking I could have some Bomb Head Mohammed nakkins printed up- them sammiches get real messy. There ain't a cop in New York that would run me off either.

Wonder if Obama would defend my right of free speech and then immediately make it clear that he isn't going to comment on the wisdom of the enterprise- or just choose to label the enterprise as stupid??


Anyone know what the higher heat value of Koran is?

Trying to get along in the worst way regards

Bubba