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View Full Version : The Rocket indicted for perjury



david gibson
08-19-2010, 02:57 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/19/AR2010081904125.html?hpid=topnews


very very sad. as a fellow longhorn as well as high school alum of Roger, i am saddened by his regressions.


another roadside victim of the superstar highway.....

Hew
08-19-2010, 04:01 PM
I didn't think anybody ever got indicted for perjury. Isn't that what we were told in the late 90s? What a grown man and a consensual needle do in a lockerroom isn't anybody's business.

Hew
08-19-2010, 04:09 PM
This isn't even the Longhorn athletics' lowest point this month. That occurred a couple of weekends ago when an ex-UT football player sucker punched a woman outside of a bar and knocked her out colder than a hammer. Sadly for him, a 150 lb UFC fighter witnessed it and curb stomped the 240 lb woman-puncher into nighty-nite land: http://www.cagepotato.com/meet-douchebag-roger-huerta-allegedly-knocked-out

BonMallari
08-19-2010, 04:11 PM
as a long time Longhorn backer, Roger should have been indicted for being stupid and arrogant..he was a good athlete....looks to be another case of the cover up being worse than the crime..what a shame that his career accomplishments will be overshadowed by all of this

dnf777
08-19-2010, 04:59 PM
I say draw a strict line on this issue. Collegiate, HS, and below: absolute ZERO tolerance. Then there will be an even field of competition for the pro drafts, and the health concerns of steroids will be rendered moot in young people.

Professional sports: all bets are off. They are paid very handsomely to entertain us and amaze us with superhuman feats of strength and athleticism. The more steroids, the harder the hits, the faster the 40s, the better. Hell, give baseball a "three point rule" if the ball leaves the stadium and parking lot! They all cry how its THEIR health, and that roids are safe.....ok, have at them! Let the games begin! They are adults, they can make decisions, its their lives.

So the Rocket and the Blago....both couldn't be convicted of the crimes they were charged with, but got nailed because the authorities didn't like the way they beat the prosecution? BTW, exactly what law is there against lying to police? The courts have constantly upheld the police's right to lie to defendants in order to trick testimony out of them, but if the convicted lies back, they go to jail. As far as I know, one is not under oath during police interrogation, are they?

luvmylabs23139
08-19-2010, 05:31 PM
Of course if you are a democratic president it's OK to lie under oath.

david gibson
08-19-2010, 06:10 PM
I say draw a strict line on this issue. Collegiate, HS, and below: absolute ZERO tolerance. Then there will be an even field of competition for the pro drafts, and the health concerns of steroids will be rendered moot in young people.

Professional sports: all bets are off. They are paid very handsomely to entertain us and amaze us with superhuman feats of strength and athleticism. The more steroids, the harder the hits, the faster the 40s, the better. Hell, give baseball a "three point rule" if the ball leaves the stadium and parking lot! They all cry how its THEIR health, and that roids are safe.....ok, have at them! Let the games begin! They are adults, they can make decisions, its their lives.

So the Rocket and the Blago....both couldn't be convicted of the crimes they were charged with, but got nailed because the authorities didn't like the way they beat the prosecution? BTW, exactly what law is there against lying to police? The courts have constantly upheld the police's right to lie to defendants in order to trick testimony out of them, but if the convicted lies back, they go to jail. As far as I know, one is not under oath during police interrogation, are they?

who lied to police? the issue is lying to Congressional investigation under oath, same as lying in court. the police dont make you swear an oath before talking to you.

dnf777
08-19-2010, 06:49 PM
who lied to police? the issue is lying to Congressional investigation under oath, same as lying in court. the police dont make you swear an oath before talking to you.

Wasn't Blago convicted of fibbing to the FBI?

I agree, I don't see how you can be charged for lying to the FBI...they are essentially police.

I understand Roger's charge. Not sure I agree, but I understand it.

dixidawg
08-19-2010, 07:15 PM
who lied to police? the issue is lying to Congressional investigation under oath, same as lying in court. the police dont make you swear an oath before talking to you.

Why did Congress even spend any time on this?

A Congressional investigation? Really?

Because some overpaid athletes may have found a way to cheat?

So what? It is none of Congress' business!

Have they nothing more important to do?

BonMallari
08-19-2010, 08:56 PM
Why did Congress even spend any time on this?

A Congressional investigation? Really?

Because some overpaid athletes may have found a way to cheat?

So what? It is none of Congress' business!

Have they nothing more important to do?

Because Congress would like nothing better than to take away MLB anti trust exemption....there is a lot of revenue in professional sports that they would like to get their hands on

dixidawg
08-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Because Congress would like nothing better than to take away MLB anti trust exemption....there is a lot of revenue in professional sports that they would like to get their hands on

How would repealing the exemption put more money in Congress' hands?

BonMallari
08-19-2010, 09:14 PM
How would repealing the exemption put more money in Congress' hands?

Regulation...taxation...being able to seize franchises like the Texas Rangers when their owner bails and defaults...they did it with GM.. ever wonder how much money is bet on professional sports each year ;)

david gibson
08-19-2010, 11:08 PM
Wasn't Blago convicted of fibbing to the FBI?

I agree, I don't see how you can be charged for lying to the FBI...they are essentially police.

I understand Roger's charge. Not sure I agree, but I understand it.

oh, i'm sorry, i thought this threead was about roger clemens. my bad.:rolleyes:

david gibson
08-19-2010, 11:13 PM
Why did Congress even spend any time on this?

A Congressional investigation? Really?

Because some overpaid athletes may have found a way to cheat?

So what? It is none of Congress' business!

Have they nothing more important to do?

you have a point, but as devils advocate i would say they should investigate and find a way to stop it. even though you are correct in one sense - that adults should be able to do as they please, i do not like the fact that kids look up to these guys and are emulating them. steroids are very prevalent in high school sports, and that is not a good thing. and its not a parenting issue as much as is with recreational drugs. kids get praise for being good athletes, and they will do the PHD's to enhance their abilities because they feel they have to in some cases to compete.

dnf777
08-20-2010, 05:41 AM
PHDs? Now I'm the dense one I guess?

dixidawg
08-20-2010, 08:30 AM
you have a point, but as devils advocate i would say they should investigate and find a way to stop it. even though you are correct in one sense - that adults should be able to do as they please, i do not like the fact that kids look up to these guys and are emulating them. steroids are very prevalent in high school sports, and that is not a good thing. and its not a parenting issue as much as is with recreational drugs. kids get praise for being good athletes, and they will do the PHD's to enhance their abilities because they feel they have to in some cases to compete.


That has nothing to do with congress. If laws were broken, it should be handled and prosecuted by the judiciary branch. If additional laws are needed in order to better control or prosecute, then congress should pass new laws.

But Congress investigating whether or not a jock took drugs is wholly outside anything congress should be doing.

troy schwab
08-20-2010, 08:32 AM
That has nothing to do with congress. If laws were broken, it should be handled and prosecuted by the judiciary branch. If additional laws are needed in order to better control or prosecute prosecute, then congress should pass new laws.

But Congress investigating whether or not a jock took drugs is wholly outside anything congress should be doing.

PRECISELY!!!! Waste of taxpayers money AGAIN!!!!!

david gibson
08-20-2010, 09:25 AM
you guys are missing the point. it may sound superficial on the outside, but if you dont like it you have to change the constitution and god knows what else. it is entirely within the right and duties of congress to investigate this situation:

"Investigative hearings share some of the characteristics of legislative and oversight hearings. The difference lies in Congress’s stated determination to investigate, usually when there is a suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of public officials acting in their official capacity, or private citizens whose activities suggest the need for a legislative remedy. Congress’s authority to investigate is broad and it has exercised this authority since the earliest days of the republic. Its most famous inquiries are benchmarks in American history: Credit Mobilier, Teapot Dome, Army-McCarthy, Watergate, and Iran-Contra. Investigative hearings often lead to legislation to address the problems uncovered. Judicial activities in the same area of Congress’s investigation may precede, run simultaneously with, or follow such inquiries."

again - its not congress against roger clemons, its congress trying to determine the level of wrongdoing and the potential harm to society of PEDs. to do so, they must interview and interrogate people under oath. it doesnt do much good to try to base legisl;ation on hearsay and opinions and potential "mistruths", so they must have honest sworn testimony. to lie to congress in this manner is extremely harmful to society amd the laws we base our society on.

roger volunteered to testify, and they feel he lied. thats a felony.

you can preach that its a waste of money, but look at the big picture. do you want 14 - 17 yr olds to have access to PEDs? do you really think it is a waste of money and congress' time to determine if legislation is needed to control these dangerous drugs? its not like recreational drugs where you can argue parenting and such, its a performance enhancer that can get a kid fame and fortune - at a price they are too young to comprehend. i am 53, and i remember some guys doing it in high school. my son played HS football just 5 years ago, and i know they are still around. i dont know roger personally, but i have met him and we have several close mutual friends, he was 5 yrs behind me in high school, same coach, etc. so i feel i am being objective here, i dont want to see him go down, but the truth must be heard.

does anyone not remember lyle alzado?

dixidawg
08-20-2010, 10:01 AM
you guys are missing the point. it may sound superficial on the outside, but if you dont like it you have to change the constitution and god knows what else. it is entirely within the right and duties of congress to investigate this situation:

"Investigative hearings share some of the characteristics of legislative and oversight hearings. The difference lies in Congressís stated determination to investigate, usually when there is a suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of public officials acting in their official capacity, or private citizens whose activities suggest the need for a legislative remedy. Congressís authority to investigate is broad and it has exercised this authority since the earliest days of the republic. Its most famous inquiries are benchmarks in American history: Credit Mobilier, Teapot Dome, Army-McCarthy, Watergate, and Iran-Contra. Investigative hearings often lead to legislation to address the problems uncovered. Judicial activities in the same area of Congressís investigation may precede, run simultaneously with, or follow such inquiries."

again - its not congress against roger clemons, its congress trying to determine the level of wrongdoing and the potential harm to society of PEDs. to do so, they must interview and interrogate people under oath. it doesnt do much good to try to base legisl;ation on hearsay and opinions and potential "mistruths", so they must have honest sworn testimony. to lie to congress in this manner is extremely harmful to society amd the laws we base our society on.

roger volunteered to testify, and they feel he lied. thats a felony.

you can preach that its a waste of money, but look at the big picture. do you want 14 - 17 yr olds to have access to PEDs? do you really think it is a waste of money and congress' time to determine if legislation is needed to control these dangerous drugs? its not like recreational drugs where you can argue parenting and such, its a performance enhancer that can get a kid fame and fortune - at a price they are too young to comprehend. i am 53, and i remember some guys doing it in high school. my son played HS football just 5 years ago, and i know they are still around. i dont know roger personally, but i have met him and we have several close mutual friends, he was 5 yrs behind me in high school, same coach, etc. so i feel i am being objective here, i dont want to see him go down, but the truth must be heard.

does anyone not remember lyle alzado?



There are already laws to control these drugs and people find their way around them, just like any other law. A congressional investigation will do nothing to change that.

What has congress done as a result of the investigation that have ANY impact on 14-17 yo's accessing these? You really think Congress doen't already know these drugs are dangerous?

What hearings did Congress hold on the stimulus bill? The results from that are likely to have a much greater impact on 14-17 tyear olds than anything that comes out of this debacle...


And FWIW, I am from Massachusetts and followed most of Clemens' career very closely. I long ago came to the conclusion that he is one of the dumbest people on the planet. This whole mess solidifies that opinion.

aandw
08-20-2010, 10:18 AM
i hope he is innocent. i am a fan of his. i hope his continued defiance is justified. however i find it hard to believe a prosecutor would take on roger clemens in public if he didn't have a slam dunk. losing this case could kill a career.
the question is did he knowingly take the drugs, you can argue there is no way he didn't know. there is a lot at stake to perform at that level and a lot of motivation.
but there is also a lot to gain for the trainers. maybe he injected clemens telling him they were vitamins or some other legal substance. if a trainer keeps roger clemens performing at the top of the game, other athletes are going to use him. so there is motivation for both sides.
why would a trainer keep a used syringe for 8 years unless he planned on profiting from it?
ignorance on clemens part is no excuse. but did he intentionally lie? find it hard to believe there won't be at least one clemens fan on the jury.

luvmylabs23139
08-20-2010, 10:48 AM
So why isn't Clinton in jail for pergury right now? A baseball player may have lied under oath. A sitting President DID lie under oath and nothing happened to him.
Until Clinton goes to jail they should lay off this stupid crap.

BonMallari
08-20-2010, 11:00 AM
part of the reason Congress is pursuing this is to show that they still have clout when called for an investigation, its pure grandstanding by a bunch of lawyers, its an election year, Clemens is a high profile target of opportunity...it is a waste of taxpayer money

duk4me
08-20-2010, 05:22 PM
OK judge, jury, and executioners what if he's innocent? The last I heard we are innocent till proven guilty unless of course we misremembered. Not saying he's innocent not saying he's guilty......just saying. We are all jaded.:(

M&K's Retrievers
08-20-2010, 06:10 PM
I'd lie to those $%^&%$# too. if I needed to or not. A bunch of headline seeking pompous arses!

Hiss on them regards,

dnf777
08-20-2010, 06:26 PM
OK judge, jury, and executioners what if he's innocent? The last I heard we are innocent till proven guilty unless of course we misremembered. Not saying he's innocent not saying he's guilty......just saying. We are all jaded.:(

But can you blame us all for being jaded? We've seen 40 year old men go from 20 hr/year to 60+/year, hit their mid-life growth spurt of 40 pounds of lean body mass increase, have pimples like a teenager, then stand there and look right into the camera and deny using steroids!

The other argument I hear is "I didn't know". Yeah, like I believe that one. Professional athletes, who's entire life is dedicated to health, fitness, diet, etc...just happen to pop pills or pop needles and don't know? I don't accuse athletes of being rocket scientists, but I find that line hard to buy.

david gibson
08-20-2010, 10:35 PM
But can you blame us all for being jaded? We've seen 40 year old men go from 20 hr/year to 60+/year, hit their mid-life growth spurt of 40 pounds of lean body mass increase, have pimples like a teenager, then stand there and look right into the camera and deny using steroids!

The other argument I hear is "I didn't know". Yeah, like I believe that one. Professional athletes, who's entire life is dedicated to health, fitness, diet, etc...just happen to pop pills or pop needles and don't know? I don't accuse athletes of being rocket scientists, but I find that line hard to buy.

GULP - in line with dave here - why should Roger's stats stand toe to toe with Kofax, Drysdale, Cy Young, etc etc if they didnt have access to the same drugs? and dont say they pitched to batters that didnt do drugs but roger did so its even. unless you have exact stats showing its even you cant make that claim and that is impossible.

roger maybe "could" have been the greatest ever, but now he just gets an asterisk

ducknwork
08-21-2010, 09:49 AM
It's all a shame. I wish that the 'steroid era' could be erased as there are so many records that are now tainted because of it. But you can't do that. Have you noticed how magically this has been dubbed 'the year of the pitcher', and there are so many more injuries than in past years...wonder why...

Hey Gibson, speaking of Koufax, check this out...:D Got it when I met him and Tommy Lasorda at the Dodgers-Phillies Game 4 in Philly last year...:D:D

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr104/sedwards_08/philly/IMG_4917.jpg
http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr104/sedwards_08/philly/IMG_4809.jpg

road kill
08-21-2010, 09:53 AM
Does anyone in congress know the difference btween a lie & the truth??


Just askin'......:rolleyes:


RK

ducknwork
08-21-2010, 10:03 AM
Does anyone in congress know the difference btween a lie & the truth??


Just askin'......:rolleyes:


RK

How can you know the difference when you don't even know the definition?

david gibson
08-21-2010, 10:18 AM
It's all a shame. I wish that the 'steroid era' could be erased as there are so many records that are now tainted because of it. But you can't do that. Have you noticed how magically this has been dubbed 'the year of the pitcher', and there are so many more injuries than in past years...wonder why...

Hey Gibson, speaking of Koufax, check this out...:D Got it when I met him and Tommy Lasorda at the Dodgers-Phillies Game 4 in Philly last year...:D:D

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr104/sedwards_08/philly/IMG_4917.jpg
http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr104/sedwards_08/philly/IMG_4809.jpg

awesome! sandy koufax was definitely an idol of mine and an under-the-breath curse of every little league coach at the time. every kid had to try to pitch like him and it drove the coaches nuts!

depittydawg
08-21-2010, 11:14 AM
part of the reason Congress is pursuing this is to show that they still have clout when called for an investigation, its pure grandstanding by a bunch of lawyers, its an election year, Clemens is a high profile target of opportunity...it is a waste of taxpayer money

I'd say they are pursuing it because of the grandstanding and "in your face" attitude Clemens brought to congress when they did their initial investigation and inquiry. He's getting what he deserves. If he used the steroids, then lied about it, then lied about the lies, he's toast. Let him eat crow in front of the world. And no, he isn't going to do any time for it.

duk4me
08-21-2010, 01:41 PM
I'm shocked I was betting ya'll would rip me apart for that post. Must be losing my touch.

I do find it interesting that Roger turned down a plea bargain that would keep him from jail time. Maybe this is a last ditch effort to get in the hall but I also think he is guilty as sin.

Count me among the jaded as well regards,

dnf777
08-21-2010, 08:56 PM
Friend of mine who is a Houston police officer had to run him out of a bar for disorderly conduct. In all fairness, he was just giving a pesky fan what he deserved, but nontheless, crossed a line and the police were called. My buddy (6-2 and bench pressed almost 500#) was very concerned about what might ensue if he offered resistance. To his pleasant surprise, the Rocket basically offered an apology, and asked what the officer would like him to do, and did it with no lip. Said he was a class act that night.

duk4me
08-30-2010, 04:45 PM
This could get interesting, he pled not guilty today. Maybe the rocket will be in pin stripes again afterall.;)

depittydawg
08-30-2010, 04:49 PM
Does anyone in congress know the difference btween a lie & the truth??


Just askin'......:rolleyes:


RK

Yes, they have their standards. A lie is when you get caught. The 'truth' is everything else.