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Bubba
09-01-2010, 02:51 PM
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/09/01/clunkers_a_classic_government_folly/

Of the 700,000 cars purchased during the clunkers frenzy, the estimated net increase in sales was only 125,000. Each incremental sale thus ended up costing the taxpayers a profligate $24,000.

It did manage to get a whole lot of Obummer bumper stickers off the road- all except Rogers and that one is welded on.

Your man whiffed again Roger regards

Bubba

road kill
09-01-2010, 03:08 PM
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/09/01/clunkers_a_classic_government_folly/

Of the 700,000 cars purchased during the clunkers frenzy, the estimated net increase in sales was only 125,000. Each incremental sale thus ended up costing the taxpayers a profligate $24,000.

It did manage to get a whole lot of Obummer bumper stickers off the road- all except Rogers and that one is welded on.

Your man whiffed again Roger regards

Bubba

Yeah, but it jumped started the Auto industry......not!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-01/gm-s-total-u-s-vehicle-sales-fell-24-9-last-month-more-than-estimated.html


RK

subroc
09-01-2010, 03:11 PM
this is an example of looting the treasury

M&K's Retrievers
09-01-2010, 03:25 PM
A friend of mine is a used car buyer for several dealers in Oklahoma. He attends auctions all over the Southwest buying cars to put on dealers lots. Normally he goes to auctions 4 to 5 days a week. Since Spring of '09, his business is off over 50% because of low demand and low inventory. He now goes to 1 or 2 auctions a week and sometimes none.

Buzz
09-01-2010, 04:17 PM
Must be that it's a good time to trade in a vehicle on a new one?

$24,000 based on some PhD's estimate of what incremental car sales were.

We all know that if you have a PhD next to your name, your numbers must be unquestionable.

dixidawg
09-01-2010, 04:23 PM
Do you have any data to dispute it? Or are you just shooting the messenger?

TN_LAB
09-01-2010, 06:48 PM
The whole thing upset me, because I was looking to buy a "clunker" last year (I needed/wanted a older truck to serve as a 3rd vehicle...n sadly had somewhat of a hard time finding one).

JDogger
09-01-2010, 07:37 PM
The whole thing upset me, because I was looking to buy a "clunker" last year (I needed/wanted a older truck to serve as a 3rd vehicle...n sadly had somewhat of a hard time finding one).

So...by your analysis the program worked.:)

It got a lot of fuel-inefficient vehicles off the road, but...sob,(I couldn't find one of the price, model, I wanted...:(), ( try craigslist...there's lots of vehicles there nobody wants...),

But it sold some new cars. :) Dealers were happy. Industry was happy.:)

Now sales are down. I had a dealer call me today...wants to buy my 'clunker',
go figure.

JD

TN_LAB
09-01-2010, 07:56 PM
So...by your analysis the program worked.:)

It got a lot of fuel-inefficient vehicles off the road, but...sob,(I couldn't find one of the price, model, I wanted...:(), ( try craigslist...there's lots of vehicles there nobody wants...),

go figure.

JD

I don't know if it worked. My lil brain hasn't done the math (much too complex of an issue to ever be so black and white as to say worked or didn't work).

Nonetheless, I don't think it worked so well cause when I went shopping for a clunker I actually had few folks chuckle and say "wish I could sell you something like that, but we have to destroy it." Needless to say, I felt I had to work a bit harder to find something...and yes, I did eventually find it on Craigslist.

Franco
09-01-2010, 08:57 PM
According to the National Auto Dealers Assc. (NADA), the average vehicle on the American road is 9 years old. So, there are a lot of clunkers available.

You just won't find them in the Used Dept of a new car dealers lot because they are not worth anything to that dealer. The would rather deal in used vehicles less than 3 years old. Many get thier vehicles from rental agencies.

To find a clunker, I would look in the For Sale By Owner section of the paper.

Hew
09-01-2010, 11:06 PM
Do you have any data to dispute it? Or are you just shooting the messenger?
I'm not sure was a petard is, but I'm pretty sure Buzz just hoisted by his own. ;-)

YardleyLabs
09-02-2010, 06:13 AM
I think that the relevant test of the actions taken with respect to the automobile industry in the US is pretty simple. Over the next few years, do we end up with a self-sustaining US auto manufacturing industry? It is pretty clear that we would not have such an industry today if nothing had been done. Not even Ford would have survived the collapse. The incremental blow of that collapse to the whole economy would have been greater than the collapse of Solomon Brothers and would have hastened our slide into depression. If we still have an auto industry and it is operating profitably three years from now, I believe that it will be the direct result of the auto bailout. The price tag will also be known by then following paybacks that are still coming in.

road kill
09-02-2010, 06:39 AM
I think that the relevant test of the actions taken with respect to the automobile industry in the US is pretty simple. Over the next few years, do we end up with a self-sustaining US auto manufacturing industry? It is pretty clear that we would not have such an industry today if nothing had been done. Not even Ford would have survived the collapse. The incremental blow of that collapse to the whole economy would have been greater than the collapse of Solomon Brothers and would have hastened our slide into depression. If we still have an auto industry and it is operating profitably three years from now, I believe that it will be the direct result of the auto bailout. The price tag will also be known by then following paybacks that are still coming in.

Prove it!!

I say FORD would have (and did) survive and GM would have (and still may) fail.



RK

ducknwork
09-02-2010, 08:17 AM
Prove it!!

I say FORD would have (and did) survive and GM would have (and still may) fail.



RK

Yardley's claim is kinda like the jobs 'saved' statistic. It can't be proven, but you can claim it and nobody will be able to disprove it either. How convenient.

Franco
09-02-2010, 08:24 AM
I think that the relevant test of the actions taken with respect to the automobile industry in the US is pretty simple. Over the next few years, do we end up with a self-sustaining US auto manufacturing industry? It is pretty clear that we would not have such an industry today if nothing had been done. Not even Ford would have survived the collapse. The incremental blow of that collapse to the whole economy would have been greater than the collapse of Solomon Brothers and would have hastened our slide into depression. If we still have an auto industry and it is operating profitably three years from now, I believe that it will be the direct result of the auto bailout. The price tag will also be known by then following paybacks that are still coming in.

Ford did what they had to do and that was getting major concessions from the UAW. Management at Ford knew that if they got into a government bailout situation that they would lose the company forever just as GM has lost the company forever to the UAW.

Ford also has an ace in the hole with the #1 selling vehicle in the world, thier F150.

Tax payers will probably never get thier money back from GM. GM is not fixed, not with the UAW calling the shots. Had the company gone kaput as it should, a new company would have emerged without tax payer dollars! Hopefully, the next POTUS will not bail them out when the UAW runs the current company into the ground.

Gooberment Motors is planning an IPO and I doubt the big investors will put thier money into a company run by the UAW because if things do start to look like they are making any real money, the UAW will demand more and more concessions.

Lets not cloud the real reason for the bailout; it was Obama's way of buying more support from the UAW and paying them off for their support in 08. A Free Market solution would have been best for GM.

BrianW
09-02-2010, 08:35 AM
So...by your analysis the program worked.:)

It got a lot of fuel-inefficient vehicles off the road


Not so much. The sales figures showed that most of the old fiv's were simply replaced with new fiv's. :(

This is what gov.org's "best & brightest" came up with. Just wait til they start saving us money on health care! Woo hoo! :rolleyes:

Buzz
09-02-2010, 09:27 AM
Gooberment Motors is planning an IPO and I doubt the big investors will put thier money into a company run by the UAW because if things do start to look like they are making any real money, the UAW will demand more and more concessions.




The big money might not put anything into them, but I think I will...