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david gibson
09-04-2010, 08:57 AM
"The Freedom Party leader made a film in 2008 which accused the Koran of inciting violence and mixed images of terrorist attacks with quotations from the Islamic holy book.

Wilders was also charged because of outspoken remarks in the media, such as an opinion piece in a Dutch daily in which he compared Islam to fascism and the Koran to Adolf Hitler's book "Mein Kampf."

Of late he has been in the news for plans to speak out against a planned mosque in New York City on September 11, the ninth anniversary of the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people."


ok, so a guy says muslims are violent by nature of their religion, they are outraged and threaten to cut off his head in retaliation......:confused:

we need to exterminate this vermin

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100903/wl_nm/us_dutch_wilders

dnf777
09-04-2010, 09:00 AM
ok, so a guy says muslims are violent by nature of their religion, they are outraged and threaten to cut off his head in retaliation......:confused:

we need to exterminate this vermin

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100903/wl_nm/us_dutch_wilders

Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?

david gibson
09-04-2010, 09:02 AM
Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?

.....yes......

YardleyLabs
09-04-2010, 09:16 AM
I think Wilders and Muhammad deserve each other -- maybe 20 years in a shared cottage on a desert island. They are both religious and cultural bigots.

dnf777
09-04-2010, 09:23 AM
I think Wilders and Muhammad deserve each other -- maybe 20 years in a shared cottage on a desert island. They are both religious and cultural bigots.

If they have a spare room, I could suggest a forum member who would certainly add zest to that duo. :rolleyes:

Although one way or another, I suspect any duo or trio from that group would quickly revert to 'one man standing'.

zeus3925
09-04-2010, 12:42 PM
If you think Muslims are brutal, read up on the crusade against the Cathars in Europe in the 12th through the 14th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism

If Islam is guilty of triumphalism in building mosques at the site of victories, so are Christians. The Cathedral at Albi, France is a fine example.

http://www.albivisit.com/images/albi-cathedrale.jpg



This is a building specifically built to remind you who is boss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Albi_Cathedral_Nave_Wikimedia_Commons.jpg

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/france/albi-cathedral-photos/

Here is a website where you can spin the camera around inside or point it up to look at the ceiling which is impressive.
http://www.360cities.net/image/albi-cathedral-cathdrale-ste-ccile-3-france#207.50,-13.98,70.0

zeus3925
09-04-2010, 01:58 PM
Who cares what happened a thousand years ago. all I'm concerned with is the present.
If catholics or protestants or hindus ,buddas or what ever were like todays finatical diper heads I would have the same suspicions of them as I do about muslims.

But muslim is the soup du jour. Catholic radicals are not out on the streets raping animals or slaughtering people. Its mostly muslim extremests blowing things up. I consider all those who agree with the muslim extremists but never act out( Hint- hint mostly are muslim) as guilty of the same and deserve the same fate.

Consent is part of the problem too.

Of course many muslims are regular ole folks. But many if not the majority are infidel haters. There fore I have no compulsion to blow them a kiss.

Pete

Just saying that people are people regardless of faith or politics. Madness can break out anytime where there is zealotry. But, before the criticism goes down make sure your past is clean. Western Civilization's is not clean. Auschwitz and Treblinka are reminders of that. Remember Northern Ireland?

Pals
09-04-2010, 06:07 PM
I respectfully disagree Sarge. Only those with clean pasts can defend themselves? We are fighting a war against Islamic terrorism-that would be the Muslim faith's direct connection. I have a clean past, not so much as a stone thrown at anyone, regardless of faith. I will not happily accept the empty reasurrances from the Muslims about how much they are a people of peace-while they dance in the streets when our country was attacked. Where in the hell is the peaceful majority who supposedly "disavows" the radical element of their faith? Probably the same place as the lawyer is who defended the aduterous Iranian woman-terrified of their own kind. I don't know about most christains, but I sure as heck am not afraid of my fellow christains when I disagree with them. History is full of really bad people, it is defined by good people who do the right thing. Allowing the Politically Correct to take over and toss out common sense is a huge mistake.

Pals
09-04-2010, 06:40 PM
Also-I don't care about the "muslims bracing for the anniversary of 9-11". I care about the thousands of my fellow Americans getting ready to face another day without their loved ones, getting their hearts torn out again as another September 11th passes and still no trial, no verdict, no accountability, no justice. What's worse, now we brought these scum to our own shores and gave them our rights. What a perversion. The crusades are not some back handed reason to justify what was done to this country, in this century. Maybe David should have renamed the thread to be less inciteful, but I happen to agree with his point.

High Sierra
09-04-2010, 07:06 PM
I think Wilders and Muhammad deserve each other -- maybe 20 years in a shared cottage on a desert island. They are both religious and cultural bigots.

Well said...

dnf777
09-04-2010, 07:57 PM
Of course many muslims are regular ole folks. But many if not the majority are infidel haters.

Pete

I'm not picking a fight, but am genuinely curious as to how you arrive at that opinion. Is it personal experience? Or are there valid surveys that support that? I think Islam has a higher percentage of intolerance and bigotry than most other religions, but I wouldn't say that the majority of practicing Muslims are "infidel haters".

If we consider non-repubican, non-Christians as "infidels" for the sake of argument, then most republicans are infidel-haters as well by that definition, by my perusal of this forum.

road kill
09-04-2010, 08:24 PM
I'm not picking a fight, but am genuinely curious as to how you arrive at that opinion. Is it personal experience? Or are there valid surveys that support that? I think Islam has a higher percentage of intolerance and bigotry than most other religions, but I wouldn't say that the majority of practicing Muslims are "infidel haters".

If we consider non-repubican, non-Christians as "infidels" for the sake of argument, then most republicans are infidel-haters as well by that definition, by my perusal of this forum.
It depends, do you consider yourself an "infidel??"


RK

Pals
09-04-2010, 08:55 PM
If we consider non-repubican, non-Christians as "infidels" for the sake of argument, then most republicans are infidel-haters as well by that definition, by my perusal of this forum.


Hahahahahahaha.....oh that is just precious. Lets see-- in todays world: Christain wackos want to convert non christains to Christ, through such nefarious means as prayer, music, community works, assitance to needy and worship. Muslim extremists well they tend to blow things up, kill their own daughters, celebrate when things get blown up and do NOT welcome any "infidel" type people into their churches. :rolleyes: Great comparison there Dave. Tell me would you rather be bible thumped or blown up? Insult your christain neighbor or insult your Muslim neighbor-which makes you more comfortable? Ask South Park about that little issue. How many threats did they get when they insulted Christ-none. How about when they went after what's his face Mohamad or however you spell it?

dnf777
09-04-2010, 10:05 PM
Hahahahahahaha.....oh that is just precious. Lets see-- in todays world: Christain wackos want to convert non christains to Christ, through such nefarious means as prayer, music, community works, assitance to needy and worship. Muslim extremists well they tend to blow things up, kill their own daughters, celebrate when things get blown up and do NOT welcome any "infidel" type people into their churches. :rolleyes: Great comparison there Dave. Tell me would you rather be bible thumped or blown up? Insult your christain neighbor or insult your Muslim neighbor-which makes you more comfortable? Ask South Park about that little issue. How many threats did they get when they insulted Christ-none. How about when they went after what's his face Mohamad or however you spell it?

I knew someone would play that card. That wasn't the point at all, but for those who want to make it that, have at it. I won't bother to explain.

I never got an answer to a legitimate question. What made the poster feel that many muslims are filled with hate? The several that I know get along well with us Christians, and actually, the issue never comes up. I see much more anti-Islamic hatred on this forum from Christians, than I do the other way around, in my everyday life. If you choose to paint all muslims with the saudi 9-11 hijakers, that is your perogative. But if that's the case, I would not be so comfortable with all the high level US officials of both parties being so snuggly with the Saudis. We've all seen the pictures of hand holding and smooching the bearded king, right? He is much closer to the hijakers than the muslim driving your cab to earn a working man's dollar.

zeus3925
09-04-2010, 10:06 PM
I respectfully disagree Sarge. Only those with clean pasts can defend themselves? We are fighting a war against Islamic terrorism-that would be the Muslim faith's direct connection. I have a clean past, not so much as a stone thrown at anyone, regardless of faith. I will not happily accept the empty reasurrances from the Muslims about how much they are a people of peace-while they dance in the streets when our country was attacked. Where in the hell is the peaceful majority who supposedly "disavows" the radical element of their faith? Probably the same place as the lawyer is who defended the aduterous Iranian woman-terrified of their own kind. I don't know about most christains, but I sure as heck am not afraid of my fellow christains when I disagree with them. History is full of really bad people, it is defined by good people who do the right thing. Allowing the Politically Correct to take over and toss out common sense is a huge mistake.

I have had contacts with many Muslims in my lifetime before and after 9/11. I continue to do so. We have been guests in each others homes.
Most are not Christian haters or American haters. I am a Christian and I am very plain that I do not wish to become a Muslim. Still, I have not felt any animosity at all from them.

The more moderate Muslims have been condemning the acts of the jihadists. The problem is, it only makes the the inside pages of the newpapers.

We are fighting a war against jihadists, not the whole of Islam. It is a war against zealots, not everyone in the Muslim faith. It is a distinction we ignore at our own peril. If we take on Islam without discerning the threat from the benign, we will then run a risk of having the good go to the "dark side".

If you care to see street demonstrations as proof of Muslim rage towards America, then consider the Muslim view in the Middle East when the images of protesters against the NYC mosque were broadcast there. Both are inaccurate views of us and of them, which serves to sell print space.

dnf777
09-04-2010, 10:11 PM
We are fighting a war against jihadists, not the whole of Islam. It is a war against zealots, not everyone in the Muslim faith.

Jeez Zeus....you sound almost identical to George W with those comments. Which makes one wonder....where was the anti-Islamic hatred when Bush cautioned not to seek revenge against all of islam, and made it clear that we are NOT at war with Islam....only the radical extremists???

Funny how all this Islamophobia and religious intolerance gets stirred up as the election season approaches. could it just be coincidence?

zeus3925
09-04-2010, 11:48 PM
Jeez Zeus....you sound almost identical to George W with those comments. Which makes one wonder....where was the anti-Islamic hatred when Bush cautioned not to seek revenge against all of islam, and made it clear that we are NOT at war with Islam....only the radical extremists???

Funny how all this Islamophobia and religious intolerance gets stirred up as the election season approaches. could it just be coincidence?

Fear is a great motivator. If I can get you to fear, I can get you to stop listening to reason. If I can feed that fear, then I will have your unquestioned loyalty. Fear is in every political operative's play book.

Fear prevents the real issues from being on the agenda. It is a great smoke screen. It keeps everyone's focus elsewhere chasing ghosts.

The danger is that fear can run amok. It did in Germany in the interwar period. We know what happened then.

road kill
09-05-2010, 08:42 AM
Fear is a great motivator. If I can get you to fear, I can get you to stop listening to reason. If I can feed that fear, then I will have your unquestioned loyalty. Fear is in every political operative's play book.

Fear prevents the real issues from being on the agenda. It is a great smoke screen. It keeps everyone's focus elsewhere chasing ghosts.

The danger is that fear can run amok. It did in Germany in the interwar period. We know what happened then.

So....what are the real issues??



RK

badbullgator
09-05-2010, 08:55 AM
Hahahahahahaha.....oh that is just precious. Lets see-- in todays world: Christain wackos want to convert non christains to Christ, through such nefarious means as prayer, music, community works, assitance to needy and worship. Muslim extremists well they tend to blow things up, kill their own daughters, celebrate when things get blown up and do NOT welcome any "infidel" type people into their churches. :rolleyes: Great comparison there Dave. Tell me would you rather be bible thumped or blown up? Insult your christain neighbor or insult your Muslim neighbor-which makes you more comfortable? Ask South Park about that little issue. How many threats did they get when they insulted Christ-none. How about when they went after what's his face Mohamad or however you spell it?

Sunday School Teacher/Preacher Kills 8 year old girl
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message769276/pg1 (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message769276/pg1)

Preacher killed wife, stuffed body in freezer, police say (includes sexual abuse and incest)
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-31/justice/preacher.freezer_1_freezer-body-sexual-abuse-and-incest?_s=PM:CRIME (http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-31/justice/preacher.freezer_1_freezer-body-sexual-abuse-and-incest?_s=PM:CRIME)

Christian bomber
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/22/va.bombarrest/ (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/22/va.bombarrest/)

Eric Robert Rudolph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph)

I am also pretty sure you can find some abortion clinic bombing that were done by Christians if you look.
We won’t even go into those catholic preist converting little boy….

All organized religion is corrupt to some point and all have “issues” to put it mildly.



Not defending muslims or knocking Christians, just saying your argument is weak and people who live in glass houses….. Bible thumping and blowing things up can go hand in hand in any religion if the person doing it is crazy enough

road kill
09-05-2010, 09:02 AM
Sunday School Teacher/Preacher Kills 8 year old girl
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message769276/pg1 (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message769276/pg1)

Preacher killed wife, stuffed body in freezer, police say (includes sexual abuse and incest)
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-31/justice/preacher.freezer_1_freezer-body-sexual-abuse-and-incest?_s=PM:CRIME (http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-31/justice/preacher.freezer_1_freezer-body-sexual-abuse-and-incest?_s=PM:CRIME)

Christian bomber
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/22/va.bombarrest/ (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/22/va.bombarrest/)

Eric Robert Rudolph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph)

I am also pretty sure you can find some abortion clinic bombing that were done by Christians if you look.
We won’t even go into those catholic preist converting little boy….

All organized religion is corrupt to some point and all have “issues” to put it mildly.



Not defending muslims or knocking Christians, just saying your argument is weak and people who live in glass houses….. Bible thumping and blowing things up can go hand in hand in any religion if the person doing it is crazy enough

Both of you made your negative points.

Awesome!!

Now....we have an issue.....it is a real issue.....Muslim related fasnatics are trying to kill America.
There are quite a few of them.

Say only 2.5% or 1% or even .25% of all these religions are fanatics.

Do the math............
Muslims--1.6 Billion +
Americans--312 Million +



RK

depittydawg
09-05-2010, 10:13 AM
If we consider non-repubican, non-Christians as "infidels" for the sake of argument, then most republicans are infidel-haters as well by that definition, by my perusal of this forum.

Certainly not true everywhere; but definitely accurate on this website. Lots of scared, angry people around these parts. It's a good thing its all in cyberspace. Otherwise, I'd probably be dead by now. :(

depittydawg
09-05-2010, 10:16 AM
Both of you made your negative points.

Awesome!!

Now....we have an issue.....it is a real issue.....Muslim related fasnatics are trying to kill America.
There are quite a few of them.

Say only 2.5% or 1% or even .25% of all these religions are fanatics.

Do the math............
Muslims--1.6 Billion +
Americans--312 Million +


RK

Your right. The math is important. At this point, I'm pretty sure we Americans have killed more Muslims. Maybe what.... 1000 to one. Or more like 10,000 to one. And lets not forget, the vast majority of them were completely innocent.
BTW, geography's important too. And we still haven't attacked the right country.
These are pretty good signs that our response is a bit off target wouldn't you say? Perhaps we should take a lesson from the Christian's among us. Instead of sending our tanks and bombers, over to kill them; maybe we would be better off sending some people over to build Mosques, hospitals and schools for them.

road kill
09-05-2010, 10:22 AM
Your right. The math is important. At this point, I'm pretty sure we Americans have killed more Muslims. Maybe what.... 1000 to one. Or more like 10,000 to one. And lets not forget, the vast majority of them were completely innocent.
BTW, geography's important too. And we still haven't attacked the right country.
These are pretty good signs that our response is a bit off target wouldn't you say? Perhaps we should take a lesson from the Christian's among us. Instead of sending our tanks and bombers, over to kill them; maybe we would be better off sending some people over to build Mosques, hospitals and schools for them.
How do you know this to be fact?
I took a CE class.
We discussed the "THALMUS," basically if you are indoctrinated with a philosophy and a consistant controlled behavior ove a period of time it sticks.

Often regardless your conscious efforts.
Much like a human "thermostat."

If this makes no sense to you, please don't bore me with childish comments.

(The thalmus in conjunction with the pituatary gland secretes chemicals that affect certain parts of the brain.)



RK

depittydawg
09-05-2010, 10:42 AM
How do you know this to be fact?
I took a CE class.
We discussed the "THALMUS," basically if you are indoctrinated with a philosophy and a consistant controlled behavior ove a period of time it sticks.

Often regardless your conscious efforts.
Much like a human "thermostat."

If this makes no sense to you, please don't bore me with childish comments.

(The thalmus in conjunction with the pituatary gland secretes chemicals that affect certain parts of the brain.)

RK

How do I know we've killed mostly innocents? Well, when your primary weapons are F14 Tomcats's, F16 Fighting Falcons, General Dynamics F11 Aardvark, etc .... Its kind of hard to be precise on who you kill. On a more personal level, I've seen the pictures of dead and mutilated children that rank among the unfortunate 'collateral damage' that we unleashed. Sorry, fighting terrorism with bombers ain't gonna work.
As far as the rest of your post, it's very impressive. And there is a lot of truth to it. That is precisely why I keep mentioning that we haven't attacked or addressed the real root of the Islamic problem. That is the hate festering Mosques of Saudi Arabia. Ask me to turn up the heat there, and you have my support.

YardleyLabs
09-05-2010, 10:45 AM
How do you know this to be fact?
I took a CE class.
We discussed the "THALMUS," basically if you are indoctrinated with a philosophy and a consistant controlled behavior ove a period of time it sticks.

Often regardless your conscious efforts.
Much like a human "thermostat."

If this makes no sense to you, please don't bore me with childish comments.

(The thalmus in conjunction with the pituatary gland secretes chemicals that affect certain parts of the brain.)



RK
I guess that must mean that religious bigots can't be cured. Too bad. If you want to play with math, you might want to compare 1.6 billion Muslims with 2 billion Christians. They are all pretty much the same.

road kill
09-05-2010, 10:49 AM
How do I know we've killed mostly innocents? Well, when your primary weapons are F14 Tomcats's, F16 Fighting Falcons, General Dynamics F11 Aardvark, etc .... Its kind of hard to be precise on who you kill. On a more personal level, I've seen the pictures of dead and mutilated children that rank among the unfortunate 'collateral damage' that we unleashed. Sorry, fighting terrorism with bombers ain't gonna work.
As far as the rest of your post, it's very impressive. And there is a lot of truth to it. That is precisely why I keep mentioning that we haven't attacked or addressed the real root of the Islamic problem. That is the hate festering Mosques of Saudi Arabia. Ask me to turn up the heat there, and you have my support.
So....your assuming??


Any way, my post on the thalmus is not an indictment that all Muslims are mean.
But they are raised with an indoctrination of at the least dis like for America & Americans.

Even though they may not buy it 100%, some is still there.

Example: The racial prejudices that existed in the 50's & 60's, though many have worked hard to remove them, when you are raised with it it is difficult to completely overcome.
Same with the anti-American prejudice Muslims are many raised with.
(no, I don't know how many exactly)

Everyone has them, if you "independent middle of the roaders" try to claim you are 100% free of prejudice of bias I would tell you to your face--"YOU ARE A LIAR!!"



RK

gman0046
09-05-2010, 10:51 AM
Dippy your way of base with your aircraft designations. I doubt F14 or F11 aircraft were used to kill our friendly muslims. More of your childish drivel.

road kill
09-05-2010, 10:52 AM
I guess that must mean that religious bigots can't be cured. Too bad. If you want to play with math, you might want to compare 1.6 billion Muslims with 2 billion Christians. They are all pretty much the same.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!


You "GUESS???":D


I used a number to reflect Americans.
Didn't I state that??

Oh....Yeah, I did, you were just too anxious to post a clever retort to pay attention!!

OOOPS!!!!:oops:

Oh well, at least it wasn't 6 paragraphs!!:D


RK

YardleyLabs
09-05-2010, 11:22 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!


You "GUESS???":D


I used a number to reflect Americans.
Didn't I state that??

Oh....Yeah, I did, you were just too anxious to post a clever retort to pay attention!!

OOOPS!!!!:oops:

Oh well, at least it wasn't 6 paragraphs!!:D


RK
But by implication, you were holding an entire religion responsible for the acts of a relatively small number of maniacs. I suspect we can come up with just as many maniacs of our own. Your grounds for condemning all Muslims would apply just as well to all Christians.

zeus3925
09-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Any way, my post on the thalmus is not an indictment that all Muslims are mean.
But they are raised with an indoctrination of at the least dis like for America & Americans.

RK

What is your source for that info or is it grabbed from the ether?

road kill
09-05-2010, 11:26 AM
But by implication, you were holding an entire religion responsible for the acts of a relatively small number of maniacs. I suspect we can come up with just as many maniacs of our own. Your grounds for condemning all Muslims would apply just as well to all Christians.


If you read the whole comment, I specifically stated that the whole religion was not responsible, your statement is foolish.


It's OK, I don't read your pompous vebose crap either.


RK

road kill
09-05-2010, 11:29 AM
What is your source for that info or is it grabbed from the ether?

My source is information available on what Muslim clerics teach, young men who have done 2, 3 and 4 tours in country and several Muslims I know (1 named Mohammed Ali!!) who have told me what the general sentiment is in Iran & Iraq.
That is why they came here.

Nice "snarky" cheap shot though, no content, status quo for you.;-)



RK

depittydawg
09-05-2010, 11:35 AM
So....your assuming??


Any way, my post on the thalmus is not an indictment that all Muslims are mean.
But they are raised with an indoctrination of at the least dis like for America & Americans.

Even though they may not buy it 100%, some is still there.

Example: The racial prejudices that existed in the 50's & 60's, though many have worked hard to remove them, when you are raised with it it is difficult to completely overcome.
Same with the anti-American prejudice Muslims are many raised with.
(no, I don't know how many exactly)

Everyone has them, if you "independent middle of the roaders" try to claim you are 100% free of prejudice of bias I would tell you to your face--"YOU ARE A LIAR!!"



RK

I totally agree.

Pals
09-05-2010, 04:27 PM
I've thought about this all day, while training, going to church and seeding the wetland. I guess the only thing I can say to Corey is that those examples are not people following the teachings of Christ.

Jihadists are they following their leaders(That would be the M guy) teachings? Well gosh and by golly- that would be a yes. Go figure. I don't like condeming a whole religion, I just want them to deal with this extremism and quit blaming us.

YardleyLabs
09-05-2010, 04:50 PM
How many videos of beheadings, women raped and then condemned to death by stoning, women with their noses cut off, lunatic clerics espousing hatred of the west, does it take to convince a guy like you?? You won't be happy until they're cutting heads off people in your own back yard. Where's the similar evidence of Christians acting the same way that you keep talking about? And please, not from hundreds of years ago, Nancy already addressed that very well at the beginning of this thread.
Walt

How many civilians have to die at the hands of American troops and contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan to convince you that all Americans are evil and determined to wipe out Muslims? That number is larger than the number of people decapitated in videos, stoned to death or having their noses cut off. Obviously, we assume that people understand that the incidents where we have caused civilian deaths were either accidents of war or crimes, and that those actions do not reflect the policies or attitudes of our country. You might want to consider the possibility that the same is true of the incidents that bother you.


I've thought about this all day, while training, going to church and seeding the wetland. I guess the only thing I can say to Corey is that those examples are not people following the teachings of Christ.

Jihadists are they following their leaders(That would be the M guy) teachings? Well gosh and by golly- that would be a yes. Go figure. I don't like condeming a whole religion, I just want them to deal with this extremism and quit blaming us.

I don't believe, based on the Muslims I know (and in some cases count as relatives) or my readings concerning the Muslim religion that Islam is any "bloodier" than Christianity -- either in the teachings of their respective religious texts or in their histories. There are many who consider themselves to be Christians that have expressed sympathy with those who have been accused of killing physicians who have performed abortions. There are many who consider themselves to be Muslims who have expressed sympathy with those who have committed acts of terrorism against America. I don't think either can be blamed on religion.

There is a minister in Murfreesboro TN who has promised public burnings of the Koran and has been part of the inflammatory rhetoric contributing to a deliberate burning of a new facility being constructed by a local group of Muslims that has existed peacefully in the town for the last 30+ years. What makes him different or better than any of the radical Imams inciting hatred? The answer is simple -- nothing. He is the same and deserves the same condemnation.

Pals
09-05-2010, 05:01 PM
Yes Jeff that minister in TN does deserve condemnation. I do not support that behavior. I volunteer for the CPC here in town, no wackos there, no condemnation of doctors who perform abortions-just trying to help young pregnant girls. At least we are not chopping their heads off or stoning them. But anyway.....I'm sure that we will see all kinds of good will from Muslim countries next Saturday, no dancing in the streets, no Islamic companies paying $$ for little terrorists killing american soliders. War? What War?

Again it goes back to following the teachings Jeff-which you avoided by showing how people are not following the teachings of Christ.

OTOH:

"The beginnings of Jihad are traced back to the words and actions of Muhammad and the Qu’ran.[38] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-autogenerated1-37) This encourages the use of Jihad against non-Muslims.[39] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-autogenerated4-38) Sura (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Sura) 25, verse 52 states: “Therefore, do not obey the disbelievers, and strive against them with this, a great striving.”[40] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-39) It was, therefore, the duty of all Muslims to strive against those who did not believe in Allah (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Allah) and took offensive action against Muslims

depittydawg
09-05-2010, 05:03 PM
I've thought about this all day, while training, going to church and seeding the wetland. I guess the only thing I can say to Corey is that those examples are not people following the teachings of Christ.

Jihadists are they following their leaders(That would be the M guy) teachings? Well gosh and by golly- that would be a yes. Go figure. I don't like condeming a whole religion, I just want them to deal with this extremism and quit blaming us.

Good post. Very thoughtful. I guess, as a Christian, there is really only one question to ask. What would Jesus do? Somehow, I think his reaction would be different than ours has been.

Pals
09-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Yes it would. And He would be none to happy with me right now either.

depittydawg
09-05-2010, 05:16 PM
Yes it would. And He would be none to happy with me right now either.

But he would forgive us both.

YardleyLabs
09-05-2010, 05:18 PM
So you consider a man that burns a book the same as a man that will douse someone in gas and light him on fire? Almost the same thing right? Did you watch that video? You bring up one man that's going to burn a book and compare it to that?
And I don't need you to tell me what I might want to consider. I can make my own decisions without your help. It's you that needs to reconsider just how much your love of diversity puts us all at risk.
Walt
I consider him the same as Imams that preach hate for America and for Christians.

dnf777
09-05-2010, 05:23 PM
The danger is that fear can run amok. It did in Germany in the interwar period. We know what happened then.


Here's another more recent example. (from this very thread!) In this case, Islamophobia.




Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?

.....yes......

YardleyLabs
09-05-2010, 05:43 PM
Yes Jeff that minister in TN does deserve condemnation. I do not support that behavior. I volunteer for the CPC here in town, no wackos there, no condemnation of doctors who perform abortions-just trying to help young pregnant girls. At least we are not chopping their heads off or stoning them. But anyway.....I'm sure that we will see all kinds of good will from Muslim countries next Saturday, no dancing in the streets, no Islamic companies paying $$ for little terrorists killing american soliders. War? What War?

Again it goes back to following the teachings Jeff-which you avoided by showing how people are not following the teachings of Christ.

OTOH:

"The beginnings of Jihad are traced back to the words and actions of Muhammad and the Qu’ran.[38] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-autogenerated1-37) This encourages the use of Jihad against non-Muslims.[39] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-autogenerated4-38) Sura (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Sura) 25, verse 52 states: “Therefore, do not obey the disbelievers, and strive against them with this, a great striving.”[40] (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/#cite_note-39) It was, therefore, the duty of all Muslims to strive against those who did not believe in Allah (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Allah) and took offensive action against Muslims
You might want to read the entire segment of the Sura that you have quoted in part. The section describes that point in time when the righteous will be brought into paradise and the unrighteous will be called to account before God. There is absolutely nothing in that section that could even remotely be considered a call to religious war. The events described parallel much of what Christians believe about the end of time when some will be saved and others condemned forever. (See http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/noframes/ch25.html)

depittydawg
09-05-2010, 06:03 PM
Here's another more recent example. (from this very thread!) In this case, Islamophobia.




Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?

.....yes......

Just a bit over the top I'd say.

Pals
09-05-2010, 06:03 PM
I know about the different types of Jihad Jeff. Are you going to deny that the Quran and muhammad encouraged "war" against non-believers?

Again-show me where Christ ever, EVER, said that we are to kill one another or kill in the name of God? Pretty sure he told us to love one another as we would ourselves. Regardless we are so far from the point-any little "insult" and the wackos come out of the woodwork-and that mostly happens very loudly with the Muslims-and death threats against those that drew the cartoon or some other dasardly deed.

YardleyLabs
09-05-2010, 06:22 PM
I know about the different types of Jihad Jeff. Are you going to deny that the Quran and muhammad encouraged "war" against non-believers?

Again-show me where Christ ever, EVER, said that we are to kill one another or kill in the name of God? Pretty sure he told us to love one another as we would ourselves. Regardless we are so far from the point-any little "insult" and the wackos come out of the woodwork-and that mostly happens very loudly with the Muslims-and death threats against those that drew the cartoon or some other dasardly deed.
Actually, the Koran prohibits conversions by force and calls for wars against "non-believers" only when they attempt to force Muslims to violate the requirements of their religion. I don't believe that the texts of either religion contain justification for religious war to promote religious supremacy. However, that has not prevented proponents of both from claiming God's support for wars beginning with the crusades and continuing to the present.

Gerry Clinchy
09-05-2010, 06:30 PM
However, that has not prevented proponents of both from claiming God's support for wars beginning with the crusades and continuing to the present.

There is another religion, other than Islam, that still encourages religious war to promote religious supremacy?

Pals
09-05-2010, 07:05 PM
Actually, the Koran prohibits conversions by force and calls for wars against "non-believers" only when they attempt to force Muslims to violate the requirements of their religion. I don't believe that the texts of either religion contain justification for religious war to promote religious supremacy. However, that has not prevented proponents of both from claiming God's support for wars beginning with the crusades and continuing to the present.


What a non answer. Yes the Koran calls for war or Jihad against infidels(and yes I do know the origin of the word infidel-I don't care either, it's how it is used against our country that should matter to us) Christ never calls for war. That was my point-oh 10 posts ago.

I swear Jeff sometimes following along after you is like rubbing sandpaper on my face. So exactly how did I force those hijackers to violate their religion and fly our planes into our buildings? Nevermind. Retract that question. I'm going to go eat and play with the dogs-and give thanks that I live in America and pray for all of us tonight.

YardleyLabs
09-05-2010, 07:54 PM
There is another religion, other than Islam, that still encourages religious war to promote religious supremacy?
You might better pose that question to people like Rick Santorum, or in fact to a large percentage of the religious right in this country which has declared us to be engaged in a religious war with Islam: People who go far out of the way to completely distort the Koran; People who characterize an entire religion as being responsible for the acts of a few because the moderates don't stand up against the radicals, but then attack the moderates as shills for the radicals when they do speak up.

In Islam, as in Christianity, anyone can speak their beliefs and their interpretations of religious texts. Keith, for example, believes deeply in what he describes as a literal reading of the Bible and professes a belief that Christianity is the only true religion and that all others are errors, leading their followers against God. Does Keith speak for all who profess Christianity? In Islam, there are many different ministers who profess the same basic beliefs in Muhammad as the Prophet and the Koran as a revelation of God's truth. However, many of their beliefs are sharply at variance with each other. Islam does not speak with one voice any more than Christianity does, even though many of the proponents of both religions believe that only one voice can be correct.

Of course, Christians, and right wing politicians, never say that we are at war with Islam. Instead, they say Islam is ar war with us and that we must destroy Islam to protect ourselves. The difference exists only in the eyes and mouths of the proponents.

Jihadists say the same thing. They point to a long history of western efforts to suppress Muslim populations and declare a Jihad to defend the religion against the economic and religious imperialism of the west. Quite frankly, their arguments are as strong as ours.

Whether you view "us" as the United States, the west, or the Christian world, the reality is that we cannot defeat Islam. Similarly, Islam cannot defeat us. What we can do is make each other miserable. There are alternatives, but they only work if the moderates on both sides reach out to each other and reject the extremists on both sides. Unfortunately, the right wing of the Republican Party seems committed to allying itself with the extremists instead.

Gerry Clinchy
09-05-2010, 09:35 PM
You might better pose that question to people like Rick Santorum, or in fact to a large percentage of the religious right in this country which has declared us to be engaged in a religious war with Islam: People who go far out of the way to completely distort the Koran; People who characterize an entire religion as being responsible for the acts of a few because the moderates don't stand up against the radicals, but then attack the moderates as shills for the radicals when they do speak up

I think it's such an analogy is quite a stretch. Nobody in this govt or even the vast majority citizens are telling anyone that it's okay to kill somebody just because they are Muslim. As an example, there are many voices raised both in favor of and opposed to the Ground Zero mosque. There is a difference between tolerant caution & being a naive patsy.

dnf777
09-05-2010, 09:53 PM
Nobody in this govt or even the vast majority citizens are telling anyone that it's okay to kill somebody just because they are Muslim.

Except on this list:


Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?
.....yes......

Very scary. We know from history what happens when this type attitude prevails.

david gibson
09-05-2010, 10:22 PM
How many civilians have to die at the hands of American troops and contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan to convince you that all Americans are evil and determined to wipe out Muslims? That number is larger than the number of people decapitated in videos, stoned to death or having their noses cut off. Obviously, we assume that people understand that the incidents where we have caused civilian deaths were either accidents of war or crimes, and that those actions do not reflect the policies or attitudes of our country. You might want to consider the possibility that the same is true of the incidents that bother you.


holy freaking cow. you are illuminating the light within to show your true colors and feelings.

no matter what context you meant this in, and how you attempt to soften it with the rest of your tripe, you said it.

freudianism regards......

"we have met the enemy, and he is us"

you people really scare me. far more than grizzlies........ ;-)

Gerry Clinchy
09-05-2010, 10:37 PM
Except on this list:


Are you talking the assassination of this one man, or exterminating the entire religion?
.....yes......

Very scary. We know from history what happens when this type attitude prevails.


My quote specified "govt" and "vast majority of citizens".

If we are willing to excuse jihadists as being a few loose wingnuts of the Muslim community ... human nature being what it is, we should expect a few such wingnuts everywhere else as well.

YardleyLabs
09-06-2010, 06:37 AM
holy freaking cow. you are illuminating the light within to show your true colors and feelings.

no matter what context you meant this in, and how you attempt to soften it with the rest of your tripe, you said it.

freudianism regards......

"we have met the enemy, and he is us"

you people really scare me. far more than grizzlies........ ;-)
If you can't read a short paragraph and understand it, you are an idiot. If, as I suspect, you are choosing to misread something to fit your politics, then you are simply a liar.

dnf777
09-06-2010, 07:28 AM
I'm not surprised David scares you, after all, you live in a neighborhood that won't tolerate pit bulls. :rolleyes:
Walt

No, but unfortunately, we have a few asses around. ;)

david gibson
09-06-2010, 07:50 AM
If you can't read a short paragraph and understand it, you are an idiot. If, as I suspect, you are choosing to misread something to fit your politics, then you are simply a liar.

how am i a liar when i simply quote you word for word????? oh, i see. i cant quote you like the liberal media quotes people they think are too conservative....you guys sure know how to work the rules! i bet you even live on a literal one way street.

road kill
09-06-2010, 08:44 AM
If you can't read a short paragraph and understand it, you are an idiot. If, as I suspect, you are choosing to misread something to fit your politics, then you are simply a liar.

Look who's talking!!:rolleyes:


RK

david gibson
09-06-2010, 09:22 AM
If you can't read a short paragraph and understand it, you are an idiot. If, as I suspect, you are choosing to misread something to fit your politics, then you are simply a liar.

i thought name calling was a no-no here. but i am sure its ok when so cleverly disguised :rolleyes:

dnf777
09-06-2010, 10:05 AM
i thought name calling was a no-no here. but i am sure its ok when so cleverly disguised :rolleyes:

Yes, cleverly cloaked in truth.

dnf777
09-06-2010, 10:08 AM
One thing I admire about middle eastern muslims is their apparent devoutness. Whats goes on behind closed doors,,, well,,, who knows.

They are pretty proud of the fact that their wives need beating and often every day. The wives don't make a big deal out of it and many think they deserve it.

Who are we to say this is wrong in their culture.


muslimanity,, cultural or religious doctrine, does it pervert the mind or not?

Pete

Nothing. There are plenty of fundamentalist Christian sects out west that feel the exact same way. Plural marriages starting at puberty, very plain conservative dress and hair for women (no Burkas yet). And a conservative judge just revoked the conviction of warren Jeffs.....obviously, he did nothing wrong!

david gibson
09-06-2010, 10:24 AM
Yes, cleverly cloaked in truth.

oh how cute, coming to the defense of his comrade !:razz:

funny - the word "truth" and you two lefties always makes me laugh! fits just like "hope" and "change"

road kill
09-06-2010, 10:38 AM
Nothing. There are plenty of fundamentalist Christian sects out west that feel the exact same way. Plural marriages starting at puberty, very plain conservative dress and hair for women (no Burkas yet). And a conservative judge just revoked the conviction of warren Jeffs.....obviously, he did nothing wrong!

Well......in that case it's all A O K!!!:D

Unbelievable...........


RK

road kill
09-06-2010, 10:39 AM
oh how cute, coming to the defense of his comrade !:razz:

funny - the word "truth" and you two lefties always makes me laugh! fits just like "hope" and "change"

Hence the nik-name "Little Yardley.";-)



RK

depittydawg
09-06-2010, 11:06 AM
One thing I admire about middle eastern muslims is their apparent devoutness. Whats goes on behind closed doors,,, well,,, who knows.

They are pretty proud of the fact that their wives need beating and often every day. The wives don't make a big deal out of it and many think they deserve it.

Who are we to say this is wrong in their culture.


muslimanity,, cultural or religious doctrine, does it pervert the mind or not?

Pete

Maybe just a bit of an over generalization here? Many men abuse their wives. It has nothing to do with religion.

depittydawg
09-06-2010, 11:27 AM
I think it's such an analogy is quite a stretch. Nobody in this govt or even the vast majority citizens are telling anyone that it's okay to kill somebody just because they are Muslim. As an example, there are many voices raised both in favor of and opposed to the Ground Zero mosque. There is a difference between tolerant caution & being a naive patsy.

I think there are a lot of outspoken leaders in this country who have advocated and preached hatred and fear against the Muslim culture. Who hasn't heard radio and TV jockeys in their rantings? Even when you don't listen to the trash it gets reprinted, and published in a variety of outlets. This continues to this day.
The fear and hatred of Muslims and anyone who attempts to downplay or expose the culture of hate, espoused on this website daily testifies to this. Some of it is covert and masked to confuse the unsuspecting listener. All you need to do is watch the reactions of people to feel the undertones of this fear and hate propaganda. And eventually it explodes into to violence. It's a page right from Goebbels. And it works.

dnf777
09-06-2010, 11:43 AM
Hence the nik-name "Little Yardley.";-)



RK

Here's some more funny word associations that you two bosom-buddies ought to get a good laugh out of......

Neocon.......family values

Republican......fiscal responsibility

Conservatives........small government


Now THOSE are funny! Oh wait, not after the past decade. Hey! THAT's NO FAIR!!

BTW...how cute..you supporting Gibson......hence "the Bosom-buddies" from now on! Have fun......but not too much fun! :D:D

david gibson
09-06-2010, 12:28 PM
Here's some more funny word associations that you two bosom-buddies ought to get a good laugh out of......

Neocon.......family values

Republican......fiscal responsibility

Conservatives........small government


Now THOSE are funny! Oh wait, not after the past decade. Hey! THAT's NO FAIR!!

BTW...how cute..you supporting Gibson......hence "the Bosom-buddies" from now on! Have fun......but not too much fun! :D:D

that would be some fair zinger material there - if it was original.

road kill
09-06-2010, 12:40 PM
that would be some fair zinger material there - if it was original.

He can not post an original thought.
It's impossible.:D




RK

road kill
09-06-2010, 12:47 PM
Here's some more funny word associations that you two bosom-buddies ought to get a good laugh out of......

Neocon.......family values

Republican......fiscal responsibility

Conservatives........small government


Now THOSE are funny! Oh wait, not after the past decade. Hey! THAT's NO FAIR!!

BTW...how cute..you supporting Gibson......hence "the Bosom-buddies" from now on! Have fun......but not too much fun! :D:D

Funny where you mind goes right away.


Proud to be considered DG's friend / buddy!!:D


RK

dnf777
09-06-2010, 02:57 PM
Play nice, children.

I have apples to press.

depittydawg
09-06-2010, 05:05 PM
I always thought culture and religion were closely tied together in the middle east mmmm.

Pete;)

So what cultural association do you hold the millions of men in America who abuse their wives to be closely tied with? Just asking.

road kill
09-06-2010, 05:21 PM
So what cultural association do you hold the millions of men in America who abuse their wives to be closely tied with? Just asking.

Same reason the Muslims do it, the domestic abuse cycle, their fathers did it.


Not an excuse, a fact.
The difference, as a society here in America we condemn such behavior, it seems to be the norm and accepted in Muslim society.

What does any of this have to do with their professed hatred for America??


RK

dnf777
09-06-2010, 06:31 PM
Same reason the Muslims do it, the domestic abuse cycle, their fathers did it.


Not an excuse, a fact.
The difference, as a society here in America we condemn such behavior, it seems to be the norm and accepted in Muslim society.

What does any of this have to do with their professed hatred for America??


RK


What about Warren Jeffs, whose conviction was just overturned by an American judge? All he did was rape a few dozen 12 year old girls to please his God and live with what he's "entitled" to.

road kill
09-06-2010, 06:36 PM
What about Warren Jeffs, whose conviction was just overturned by an American judge? All he did was rape a few dozen 12 year old girls to please his God and live with what he's "entitled" to.


Have not read the court proceedings as yet.
I am sure you and Yardley have.

Maybe the judge was pro-rapist?

Why don't you enlighten us...............wait, here is the MORE;

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0727/Warren-Jeffs-Utah-court-overturns-polygamist-s-rape-conviction

"The Utah justices held that instructions given to the jurors were erroneous and ordered a new trial. Jeffs was originally found guilty of being an accomplice to rape for using his religious influence to coerce a minor into marrying her 19-year-old cousin.

The justices said that the jury's deliberation should have been focused on whether Jeffs' intent in performing the "spiritual marriage" was for rape to occur, not on whether the action itself led to nonconsensual sex.

“In particular, the court held that Mr. Jeffs had to have the intent to aid the rape that was committed,” says Paul Cassell, professor of criminal law at S.J. Quinney College of Law at the University of Utah. “That will be the issue on which the new trial will focus.”

Analysts say the court’s opinion was narrow in the sense that they did not hold that Jeffs is innocent but rather simply that the jury was improperly instructed on the charges.

“We regret the effect our opinion might have on the victim of the underlying crime, to whom we do not wish to cause additional pain,” wrote Justice Jill Parrish for the court. “However, we must ensure that the laws are applied evenly and appropriately, in this case as in every case, in order to protect the constitutional principles on which our legal system is based. We must guarantee justice, not just for this defendant, but for all who may be accused of a crime and subjected to the State’s power to deprive them of life, liberty, or property hereafter.”"

Dave, if you are gonna try to trump up some bogus accusation, go after something you know about......don't you think (even though YOU know he is guilty) the proceedings should be done properly??





RK

dnf777
09-06-2010, 07:00 PM
Have not read the court proceedings as yet.
I am sure you and Yardley have.

Maybe the judge was pro-rapist?

Why don't you enlighten us...............wait, here is the MORE;

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0727/Warren-Jeffs-Utah-court-overturns-polygamist-s-rape-conviction

"The Utah justices held that instructions given to the jurors were erroneous and ordered a new trial. Jeffs was originally found guilty of being an accomplice to rape for using his religious influence to coerce a minor into marrying her 19-year-old cousin.

The justices said that the jury's deliberation should have been focused on whether Jeffs' intent in performing the "spiritual marriage" was for rape to occur, not on whether the action itself led to nonconsensual sex.

“In particular, the court held that Mr. Jeffs had to have the intent to aid the rape that was committed,” says Paul Cassell, professor of criminal law at S.J. Quinney College of Law at the University of Utah. “That will be the issue on which the new trial will focus.”

Analysts say the court’s opinion was narrow in the sense that they did not hold that Jeffs is innocent but rather simply that the jury was improperly instructed on the charges.

“We regret the effect our opinion might have on the victim of the underlying crime, to whom we do not wish to cause additional pain,” wrote Justice Jill Parrish for the court. “However, we must ensure that the laws are applied evenly and appropriately, in this case as in every case, in order to protect the constitutional principles on which our legal system is based. We must guarantee justice, not just for this defendant, but for all who may be accused of a crime and subjected to the State’s power to deprive them of life, liberty, or property hereafter.”"

Dave, if you are gonna try to trump up some bogus accusation, go after something you know about......don't you think (even though YOU know he is guilty) the proceedings should be done properly??


RK


When a man openly admits (no, brags) about sleeping with dozens of young girls and fathering children with children.......THAT IS WRONG. He used his FLDS religion to justify his actions. Is that not an abomination of God's word?
Does it represent Christianity as a whole? I don't think so.

road kill
09-06-2010, 07:06 PM
When a man openly admits (no, brags) about sleeping with dozens of young girls and fathering children with children.......THAT IS WRONG. He used his FLDS religion to justify his actions. Is that not an abomination of God's word?
Does it represent Christianity as a whole? I don't think so.
I thought you were whining about the Utah Supreme court overturning this ruling.
Rape and all.

A little digging shows something else all together, now you have changed whine.

BTW--What does this have to do with Muslims?
Are you excusing Radical Muslim behavior because a Morman gets a retrial because a judge screwed the trial up?
Doesn't the man still deserve a fair trial??

WTH are you trying to say??


RK

dnf777
09-06-2010, 07:48 PM
I thought you were whining about the Utah Supreme court overturning this ruling.
Rape and all.

A little digging shows something else all together, now you have changed whine.

BTW--What does this have to do with Muslims?
Are you excusing Radical Muslim behavior because a Morman gets a retrial because a judge screwed the trial up?
Doesn't the man still deserve a fair trial??

WTH are you trying to say??


RK

I'm saying that all religions have their nuts. People like you are holding all of Islam to the standards set by a radical sect that carried out terrorist acts, while giving our religion a free pass when it comes to our own kooks. Whether Jeffs' conviction is ultimately upheld means little to me. He will burn in hell for bastardizing God's word to fit his own depraved agenda. Just like the perpetrators of 9-11 will.

dnf777
09-06-2010, 07:53 PM
this is just the kind of crap I'm afraid of. These nuts are determined to start a holy war, and may just succeed. I'm still wondering why all this Islamophobic behavior is just now surfacing? After 9-11, GWB made a valiant effort to quell such extremist reaction, now, it seems to be getting stirred up. Why is that?

Thank goodness Gen Petraeus and the Nat'l Assoc. of Evangelicals have the sense to discourage this kind of radical Christianity and hate-baiting.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/06/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T1

depittydawg
09-06-2010, 07:57 PM
Same reason the Muslims do it, the domestic abuse cycle, their fathers did it.


Not an excuse, a fact.
The difference, as a society here in America we condemn such behavior, it seems to be the norm and accepted in Muslim society.

What does any of this have to do with their professed hatred for America??


RK

I know a few Muslims. Not many admittedly. But I don't know any of them who "hate" America. To give you a perspective. Lets say some self professed Muslim leader from a foreign country makes a radical statement. (happens all the time). Does that mean everyone who professes to be Muslim agrees with it?
If so then the same standards apply to our own culture. In our culture the President of the Untited States opens his mouth every day. You're an American. Does that mean you believe everything he says? I doubt it. I know it wasn't true for me for the 8 years of Bush's Presidency.
The fact is, there is almost always a disconnect between the leadership and the majority. And I would wager that as a leader is measured to be more radical, that disconnection widens dramatically.

road kill
09-06-2010, 08:23 PM
I'm saying that all religions have their nuts. People like you are holding all of Islam to the standards set by a radical sect that carried out terrorist acts, while giving our religion a free pass when it comes to our own kooks. Whether Jeffs' conviction is ultimately upheld means little to me. He will burn in hell for bastardizing God's word to fit his own depraved agenda. Just like the perpetrators of 9-11 will.
Please show me where I ever stated anything remotely close to that false assertion..........you're just making stuff up to whine about now.:rolleyes:



RK

road kill
09-06-2010, 08:26 PM
I know a few Muslims. Not many admittedly. But I don't know any of them who "hate" America. To give you a perspective. Lets say some self professed Muslim leader from a foreign country makes a radical statement. (happens all the time). Does that mean everyone who professes to be Muslim agrees with it?
If so then the same standards apply to our own culture. In our culture the President of the Untited States opens his mouth every day. You're an American. Does that mean you believe everything he says? I doubt it. I know it wasn't true for me for the 8 years of Bush's Presidency.
The fact is, there is almost always a disconnect between the leadership and the majority. And I would wager that as a leader is measured to be more radical, that disconnection widens dramatically.

So are you saying Obama speaks for only a small handful of radical Americans??:D


Real poor choice of an analogy there, Dawg.



RK

david gibson
09-06-2010, 10:01 PM
So are you saying Obama speaks for only a small handful of radical Americans??:D


Real poor choice of an analogy there, Dawg.



RK

stan - sit down and think about what you are doing here.

you are replying to dippity as if he made a coherent statement.

dont waste your time. never the twain shall meet regards.....

dnf777
09-06-2010, 10:18 PM
Please show me where I ever stated anything remotely close to that false assertion..........you're just making stuff up to whine about now.:rolleyes:



RK

People LIKE you. Gibson. When asked if he was referring to killing a specific cleric, or exterminating the entire religion, he responded, "yes".

You two seem to have developed some type of bond here. I chose my words carefully.

Julie R.
09-06-2010, 11:52 PM
You two seem to have developed some type of bond here. I chose my words carefully.

So dnf, this is the second time you've made an innuendo that 2 men that agree with each other's posts, but not with yours, are gay. Does that mean you're a homophobe?

dnf777
09-07-2010, 07:56 AM
So dnf, this is the second time you've made an innuendo that 2 men that agree with each other's posts, but not with yours, are gay. Does that mean you're a homophobe?

Not at all. I've stated clearly many times (but I'll repeat it yet again for the hard of hearing) that the gay lifestyle is not for me, but I really don't care what others do, so long as it doesn't infringe on my rights and privacy. The only reason I even mentioned it, was from their name-calling, I thougt that such alliances somehow needed to be pointed out? Just following suit, that's all. What's good for lil yardley is good for the bosom buddies! :D

And all I said was "bond". Why do you make the quantam leap to gayness? :confused:

road kill
09-07-2010, 08:06 AM
Not at all. I've stated clearly many times (but I'll repeat it yet again for the hard of hearing) that the gay lifestyle is not for me, but I really don't care what others do, so long as it doesn't infringe on my rights and privacy. The only reason I even mentioned it, was from their name-calling, I thougt that such alliances somehow needed to be pointed out? Just following suit, that's all. What's good for lil yardley is good for the bosom buddies! :D

And all I said was "bond". Why do you make the quantam leap to gayness? :confused:

Unless of course he feels he can use it as a snappy insult.........


......because he's got nothing else!!:D



RK

Julie R.
09-07-2010, 10:40 AM
Not at all. I've stated clearly many times (but I'll repeat it yet again for the hard of hearing) that the gay lifestyle is not for me, but I really don't care what others do, so long as it doesn't infringe on my rights and privacy. The only reason I even mentioned it, was from their name-calling, I thougt that such alliances somehow needed to be pointed out? Just following suit, that's all. What's good for lil yardley is good for the bosom buddies! :D

And all I said was "bond". Why do you make the quantam leap to gayness? :confused:

So you get all exercised when anyone besmirches Islam, but it's OK to make snide innuendos about homosexuality under the guise of "I really don't care what others do because *I* am not a homo"? Niiiiiiiice.....

david gibson
09-07-2010, 10:58 AM
So you (dnf777) get all exercised when anyone besmirches Islam, but it's OK to make snide innuendos about homosexuality under the guise of "I really don't care what others do because *I* am not a homo"? Niiiiiiiice.....

even better - he claims its ok to besmirch the Palin children because Sarah exposed them so they are now fair game for tasteless jokes. he then exposed his own daughter by bringing her up as a righteous comparison but say one thing ( i just asked if he knew she practiced abstinence, same level he was at with comparing her to Palin kids - and she's an adult so i am not saying anything about minors) and he goes all beserko and "draws the line" :confused: HE brings it and her into the mix up and then gets mad and draws the line?

and this is the internet, what could he do anyway?? lol

its all about him and he makes all the rulez. anything else is over the line!!

like RK said - its just his own self pitiful desperation because he's got nothin'.

i am beginning to lose the appeal for debate here, its just no longer a challenge with these guys.....

dnf777
09-07-2010, 11:01 AM
So you get all exercised when anyone besmirches Islam, but it's OK to make snide innuendos about homosexuality under the guise of "I really don't care what others do because *I* am not a homo"? Niiiiiiiice.....

Yeah. Its called minding my own business. If more people did that, we wouldn't have half the problems we do!

Can't believe you have a problem with that??

If a non-conservative on this list were to say his dog's a$$ stinks, you righties would cry ritcheous indignation, and partisanship, and its all obumgaloo's fault, and ARGUE WITH THAT! This place is really getting pathetic!

BTW, what "snide innuendo" is referenced by saying its not for me? Bizarro!!

dnf777
09-07-2010, 11:07 AM
its all about him and he makes all the rulez. anything else is over the line!!


i am beginning to lose the appeal for debate here, its just no longer a challenge with these guys.....


I said when it comes to my kids, I draw the lines. Trust me, you don't want to put that one to the test.

As for losing appeal, I generally try not to associate with people who answer "yes" to exterminating entire religions. You bore me. Although I do find your extremism and hypocrisy amusing on a certain level, so I keep checking in.

MarkyMark
09-07-2010, 11:16 AM
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/August/Islamization-of-Paris-a-Warning-to-the-West/

david gibson
09-07-2010, 11:39 AM
I said when it comes to my kids, I draw the lines. Trust me, you don't want to put that one to the test. pulease, really now?

As for losing appeal, I generally try not to associate with people who answer "yes" to exterminating entire religions. You bore me. Although I do find your extremism and hypocrisy amusing on a certain level, so I keep checking in.

thanks for proving my point. you brought her in to the debate but by your rules she is off limits, the exact opposite logic you used to excuse and defend an off-color and distasteful comment about Bristol Palin. hypocrisy at its finest, as only you can do! i will never be able to equal your lofty levels!

and losing appeal? i bore you?? again, unoriginal, you just take what i said and turn it around like it was your thought all along. ho-hum, obama does that ad nauseum and you follow your messiah. . all you have done lately is mimic me and RK. you got nothin' fresh or original.

Julie R.
09-07-2010, 12:41 PM
Yeah. Its called minding my own business. If more people did that, we wouldn't have half the problems we do!



Minding your own business?
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/abigrofl.gifhttp://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/abigrofl.gifhttp://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/abigrofl.gif


So speaks the King of the Last Word, who feels it essential that he must mind his own business on each and every thread and would never insist on having the last word on any/every thread in this forum. http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/SARCASM.gif

Folks, get your popcorn ready cause ole dnf has a few last words to post while he minds his own business. Minding his own business or having an unuttered thought in his head would get lonesome.

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/MouseOnAFeedsack/Smilies/PedoPopcorn.gif

dnf777
09-07-2010, 01:35 PM
thanks for proving my point. you brought her in to the debate but by your rules she is off limits, the exact opposite logic you used to excuse and defend an off-color and distasteful comment about Bristol Palin. hypocrisy at its finest, as only you can do! i will never be able to equal your lofty levels!

and losing appeal? i bore you?? again, unoriginal, you just take what i said and turn it around like it was your thought all along. ho-hum, obama does that ad nauseum and you follow your messiah. . all you have done lately is mimic me and RK. you got nothin' fresh or original.

You are a real jerk. I mentioned my daughter in terms of her outstanding accomplisments. Lots of folks on RTF mention their family and their dogs all the time. Does that give you licence to make rude comments about them? No, it doesn't. But a jacka$$ like you doens't know the difference.

I won't get too riled though, because I know big pansies like you would never have the hangers to talk like that to someone's face. Just a bad case of Chihuahua kennel rage.

road kill
09-07-2010, 01:52 PM
You are a real jerk. I mentioned my daughter in terms of her outstanding accomplisments. Lots of folks on RTF mention their family and their dogs all the time. Does that give you licence to make rude comments about them? No, it doesn't. But a jacka$$ like you doens't know the difference.

I won't get too riled though, because I know big pansies like you would never have the hangers to talk like that to someone's face. Just a bad case of Chihuahua kennel rage.

3 for 1 sale??

You have lost it, completely.........


RK

dnf777
09-07-2010, 04:01 PM
3 for 1 sale??

You have lost it, completely.........


RK


PM sent..............

ducknwork
09-08-2010, 06:34 AM
My bowl of popcorn is empty. Is anyone headed to the kitchen?

david gibson
09-08-2010, 09:44 AM
You are a real jerk. I mentioned my daughter in terms of her outstanding accomplisments. Lots of folks on RTF mention their family and their dogs all the time not in direct comparison to someone they are disparaging. not even close to the same context and you know it. Does that give you licence to make rude comments about them? No, it doesn't. But a jacka$$ like you doens't know the difference. you are the one one that doesnt know the differrence, sir
I won't get too riled though, because I know big pansies like you would never have the hangers to talk like that to someone's face. Just a bad case of Chihuahua kennel rage.



yeah, right.:rolleyes: if this isnt riled up, what is??? adding a fourth insulting name on the internet??? :razz: the only reason you are riled up is because you are totally wrong and seething over nothing.

and exactly what did i ever even say that was so horrible? you brought her up as a righteous example to bristol palin, and i asked if you knew she practiced abstinence. thats it. woweee. and i promise you, i would easily say that to your face. i have an adult daughter as well, and guess what? if i held her up as a comparison to bristol palin it wouldnt bother me if you asked me the same thing.

dude, get a grip. i dont care anything about any of your family. until you brought her up i didnt know if you had 0 kids or 10, their gender, nothing, and dont care still. i personally dont care what anyone says about my family if they dont even know them. it means nothing because they know nothing.

gotta admit your little meltdowns are entertaining!

david gibson
09-08-2010, 09:48 AM
PM sent..............

awwwwww. i feel left out here. is he calling me even more names in a pm????? :p:p:p

road kill
09-08-2010, 09:52 AM
awwwwww. i feel left out here. is he calling me even more names in a pm????? :p:p:p


I can't betray the implied trust in regard to the sanctity of PM's.:D



RK

dnf777
09-08-2010, 09:54 AM
awwwwww. i feel left out here. is he calling me even more names in a pm????? :p:p:p

Now who's playing the child? You just can't stand it can you??
Keep stirring the pot.....you're better than I am at that!

I'm done here. Play nice with each other.

zeus3925
09-08-2010, 12:20 PM
You guys need to take a break!

cotts135
09-08-2010, 01:49 PM
Wow this thread is something.Chihuahua kennel rage............. that visual is priceless, I am still chuckling over that one

dnf777
09-08-2010, 01:49 PM
You guys need to take a break!

Yeah, I agree. The level of maturity has reached a new low. I have far more important things to do that play these games.

have a good one

ducknwork
09-09-2010, 06:25 AM
Yeah, I agree. The level of maturity has reached a new low. I have far more important things to do that play these games.

have a good one

No way...it's been way lower before.

road kill
09-09-2010, 07:27 AM
Yeah, I agree. The level of maturity has reached a new low. I have far more important things to do that play these games.

have a good one


You have to announce your departure twice?

Whats up wit dat??



RK

Julie R.
09-09-2010, 11:11 AM
You have to announce your departure twice?

Whats up wit dat??



RK

Famous last words, from dnf aka "Wait! I did not finish!"