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depittydawg
09-09-2010, 12:15 AM
For anyone who has decided to defend the actions of this Nut in Florida for political gain, I thought you might be interesting to find out a little background on the Church, it's leadership, and its background.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dove_World_Outreach_Center

History of the church

The Dove World Outreach Center (DWOC) was founded in 1985 by Donald O. Northrup[1] and Richard H. Wright who served as co-pastors in 1987.[2] It became known for participating in charitable endeavors.[citation needed] Wright led a subsidiary church in Waldo, Florida in the 1980s.[citation needed]
Northrup, who was affiliated with the now defunct Maranatha Campus Ministries (MCM), headed the DWOC from its inception until he died in 1996.[1] (He repudiated the MCM before his death.)[citation needed] His wife, Dolores, continued to participate in various ministries of the DWOC as Woman's Pastor until 2004;[1] she became estranged from the congregation in 2009 due to concerns about the church's future under the Jones family.[citation needed]
Donald Northrup and Terry Jones first became involved with each other as operatives in the Maranatha Campus Ministries. Jones founded and led the Christliche Gemeinde Köln, a church in Cologne, Germany from 1981 to 2008[3][4] initially as a branch of the Maranatha Campus Ministries. Jones was released from the leadership of the Christliche Gemeinde Köln in 2008 due to untenable theological statements and craving for recognition.[5] Following Jones' departure, the CGK closed,[3] then reopened under new, independent, leadership.

he DWOC also maintains a boarding school in Gainsville, called the Dove World Outreach Academy. According to the Gainsville Sun, students of the academy are prohibited from outside and family contact including attendance at family weddings and funerals, and work without compensation selling, packing, and shipping furniture for TS and Company, a business owned by Sylvia Jones.[3]
In 2010 Jones published Islam is of the Devil, a polemic denouncing Islam as a violent faith.[7] The church reportedly had fifty members in September 2010.[8]

Local response
The church has been strongly criticized by various local religious and political figures in Florida for its stances against Islam and homosexuality. In response, a Gainesville Interfaith Forum was established in November 2009 with participation from the University of Florida Hillel, Congregation Bnai Israel[29] and individual Muslim residents, and the forum's request for the declaration of September 11 as "Interfaith Solidarity Day" was honored by current mayor Craig Lowe[30]. The Forum scheduled a "Gathering for Peace, Understanding and Hope" at Trinity United Methodist Church on the day before the planned burning[31].
In addition, Lowe has referred to Dove World as a "tiny fringe group and an embarrassment to our community"[32].
Twenty local religious leaders gathered Thursday, September 2, 2010 to call for citizens to rally around Muslims “in a time when so much venom is directed toward them.” [33].
National and international response
Beyond coverage of the organization by news media, the church has received condemnation from a diversity of political and religious leaders and organizations due to its anti-Islamic stance, including criticism by:
David Petraeus, US forces general in Afghanistan stated that it could endanger troops and the overall effort there[34]
the White House[35]
the Government of Canada[36]
the Anti-Defamation League[37][38]
Al-Azhar University[39]
the National Association of Evangelicals
the head of Iran's Islamic Culture and Relations Organization (who deemed the Quran burning proposal a "Zionist" insult)[40].
Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community[41]
the International Humanist and Ethical Union[42]
the Organization of the Islamic Conference[43]
John Rankin, President of the Theological Education Institute in Connecticut, has started a "Yes to the Bible, No to the Burning of the Qur'an" effort. Also Jennifer Bryson is advocating Christian intra-faith dialogue and Christian rejection of "Burn a Koran Day" [44].
Protests have ensued against the church in places such as Indonesia[45]. However, when death threats directed against Jones were mailed to The Gainesville Sun in a letter postmarked from Johnstown, Pa.[46], the American Muslim Association of North America issued a statement signed by 15 imams including Ahmed Al Mehdawi of the Islamic Center of Gainesville condemning the death threats[47].
Various other Muslims, such as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community have voiced that the Dove world Outreach centre is not following the true teachings of Christianity of tolerance and love.[48][49] They quote from the Bible "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you..."(Matthew 5:44-45). The Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, Mirza Masroor Ahmad, has stated that "Religious extremism, be it Christian extremism, Muslim extremism or any other kind, is never a true reflection of the religion".[50]
Indonesians took to the streets to protest the event on September 4, with thousands, mostly muslims, taking part in events across the country. Rokhmat Labib, chairman of the Islamic group Hizbut Tahrir that organized the protests, called the planned book burning a provocation and predicted that muslims would fight back should it take place. Lahib said that Muslims must not stay silent when their faith is threatened.[51]
General David Petraeus said "it is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community." On the same day hundreds of Afghans had protested in Kabul against the planned Qur'an burning event, chanting "death to America" and throwing rocks at a passing military convoy. Military officials also expressed fears that the protests would spread to other cities. Military officers at the Pentagon consequently said they hoped the rare incursion into politics by a military commander would convince pastor Jones to cancel his plans. The pastor responded to Petraeus' statement that, "We understand the General's concerns. We are sure that his concerns are legitimate. [Nonetheless] [w]e must send a clear message to the radical element of Islam. We will no longer be controlled and dominated by their fears and threats."[52]
The US embassy in Kabul issued a statement condemning the plans.[8] Robert Gibbs, White House Press Secretary, criticized the plans stating "any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern to this administration".[8] NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen said that the church's plans would violate NATO's "values" and may have a negative impact on the security of its soldiers.[8]

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/terry-jones-dove-world-outreach-center-what-it-2660875.html

Dove World Outreach Center was founded in 1986 by Donald Northrup and Richard Wright, and leadership was assumed by Terry Jones in 1996. The Gainesville church complex has a religious school, called the Dove World Outreach Academy, whose students are sequestered from the outside world, and work to pack furniture for TS and Company, which is owned by Terry and Sylvia Jones.

Terry Jones' daughter, Emma Jones, broke with the church, calling it a cult, and accusing her father and stepmother of a series of financial and labor abuses.

And finally, there is a link on Google that looks like the official link to the church However it didn't connect to anything.
www.doveworld.org

dnf777
09-09-2010, 06:32 AM
So far I've been pleasantly surprised. I thought several here would come out and support the preacher, but hopefully there is a line between Islamophobia and Islamic-hatred, and folks can clearly see this is an act of hate and intolerance.....not mere fear.

It would be hard to support him now, as almost every conservative has rightfully come out against this religious zealot. (and no, I'm not painting all religion with this nut-job's brush) but he does represent the exact type of zealot who thinks HE has the ONLY true word, that has the potential to land a spark on a pile of kindling.

ducknwork
09-09-2010, 06:40 AM
I think that our government should give them a place to burn the books. Maybe somewhere where they will get even more attention than in Florida...I would think it would be an outstanding way to spend taxpayer money. 40 plane tickets to....
















Downtown Kabul...:D

Heck, I'll even hook em up with some gas and matches so they don't have any trouble starting a bonfire once they get there!

Can someone else pick up the tab for some marshmallows, graham crackers and chocolate bars? I hate to see a good bonfire go to waste as I think not one Koran would touch the flames.

dnf777
09-09-2010, 06:53 AM
Good idea. I've thought one solution would be to use good ol' tea party peaceful tactics, like publishing the pastor's and parishoner's home addresses on a website. Just so their equally reasonable, peaceful Islamist demonstrators can protest peacefully outside their homes. Let the peaceful extremists settle this amongst themselves.......over tea and wafers.

Nah, I like your Kabul tickets idea better. If you get round trippers, I'd make sure they're partially refundable though......

Matt McKenzie
09-09-2010, 07:24 AM
Once again, I fall on the side of free speech. These idiots have the right to burn a Koran, a phone book, a Bible, an American flag or the Sears catalog as long as they own it. That said, I'm frustrated that the media has given them a worldwide forum. Why it's news that a group of nutjobs in Gatorland want to burn a book is beyond me. The fact that it's getting so much coverage is what's causing all the problems.
And again, I find it ironic that some who complain loudly about the suppression of civil liberties in other cases want to deprive this person of his rights in this case. You either believe in and support freedom or you don't. One man's opinion.

cotts135
09-09-2010, 07:38 AM
Once again, I fall on the side of free speech. These idiots have the right to burn a Koran, a phone book, a Bible, an American flag or the Sears catalog as long as they own it. That said, I'm frustrated that the media has given them a worldwide forum. Why it's news that a group of nutjobs in Gatorland want to burn a book is beyond me. The fact that it's getting so much coverage is what's causing all the problems.
And again, I find it ironic that some who complain loudly about the suppression of civil liberties in other cases want to deprive this person of his rights in this case. You either believe in and support freedom or you don't. One man's opinion.
Bingo...................and well said. Of course these same news outlets will never admit being complicit if any harm comes to anyone because of this nutjob.

Ken Bora
09-09-2010, 08:36 AM
I think, in these United States he is allowed to burn.

I think, In my mind, and how I chose to live my life and interact with others…. That he is a dill hole.

One of the pesky little problems we have in a free country is that you and the dill hole next door both have the same rights and freedoms.

Anybody remember Guy Montag??????????? “Burn them for the good of humanity!”



.

Buzz
09-09-2010, 10:22 AM
That said, I'm frustrated that the media has given them a worldwide forum. Why it's news that a group of nutjobs in Gatorland want to burn a book is beyond me. The fact that it's getting so much coverage is what's causing all the problems.



It's all about ratings and money.

Buzz
09-09-2010, 10:23 AM
I've been wrong about you doc, you really are full of yourself, aren't you? You mention fear more then anyone on this forum, you must be constantly afraid of something to be so obsessed with it.
By the way, do you even own a retriever?
Walt

I'm confused... :confused::confused::confused:

black0989
09-09-2010, 10:45 AM
Unfortunately he is allowed to do what he wants. Marines and other military members will pay the price, its a shame, but nothing can be done.

Ignorance is bliss.

Semper Fi regards

Uncle Bill
09-09-2010, 11:11 AM
Unfortunately he is allowed to do what he wants. Marines and other military members will pay the price, its a shame, but nothing can be done.

Ignorance is bliss.

Semper Fi regards


And it's not the first time the military paid the price for the rants of idiot civilians. Anyone want to recall the antics of Hanoi Jane and her followers. Think the soldiers didn't pay for that so-called American protest by the lefties in this nation?


UB

ducknwork
09-09-2010, 12:20 PM
Once again, I fall on the side of free speech. These idiots have the right to burn a Koran, a phone book, a Bible, an American flag or the Sears catalog as long as they own it. That said, I'm frustrated that the media has given them a worldwide forum. Why it's news that a group of nutjobs in Gatorland want to burn a book is beyond me. The fact that it's getting so much coverage is what's causing all the problems.
And again, I find it ironic that some who complain loudly about the suppression of civil liberties in other cases want to deprive this person of his rights in this case. You either believe in and support freedom or you don't. One man's opinion.

Oh boy. Not this again. Nobody has said that he CAN'T burn them. Everyone just thinks he shouldn't.

It's like DNF and the mosque again!!

gman0046
09-09-2010, 01:32 PM
What if the Ragheads were going to burn bibles? I seriously doubt any fuss would be made at all. Again its a one way street.

dnf777
09-09-2010, 01:38 PM
What if the Ragheads were going to burn bibles? I seriously doubt any fuss would be made at all. Again its a one way street.

I suspect there have been many Bibles and Korans burned since this story first broke.........since 9-11 for that matter.

This is an issue that will come up again and again in our viral-video culture. Any yahoo with a match and an iPhone can command the attention of top militay commanders 8000 miles away and the US Dept of State!!

Much of the muslim world does not (cannot, given their circumstances) that the US gov't does not supress such actions, and therefore, to the extremists, appear complicit or even supportive.

This is a problem with no simple answer, and one that is likely to come up again and again, given the attention it garnered for this particular kook. And that's what kooks really want.........attention.

ducknwork
09-09-2010, 02:34 PM
This is a problem with no simple answer, and one that is likely to come up again and again, given the attention it garnered for this particular kook. And that's what kooks really want.........attention.


Am I the only one who found this kinda funny, perhaps even a bit 'pot meet kettle-ish'?:D:D


Sorry, Dave...low hanging fruit buddy...;-):D

YardleyLabs
09-09-2010, 02:53 PM
What if the Ragheads were going to burn bibles? I seriously doubt any fuss would be made at all. Again its a one way street.
I guess I would consider that to be as inappropriate as when you and the other "white hoods" get together to burn whatever religious symbols you like.

The last big bible burning happened last October in North Carolina when some pastor decided that the King James version of the bible was the only one reflecting the word of God and called for burning all other versions. He received a lot of attention nationally, but at least he wasn't going out of his way to undermine our country's military

From a first amendment perspective, I figure that anyone in this country, acting in a personal capacity, who wants to burn books, flags, or even crosses can do so assuming they are not violating fire codes, air quality regulations, or property rights. That doesn't make it right, just legal. Personally, if the pastor's little book burning gets out of hand and his church begins to go up in flames, I might have to rethink my atheism.:rolleyes:

Hew
09-09-2010, 04:20 PM
Personally, if the pastor's little book burning gets out of hand and his church begins to go up in flames, I might have to rethink my atheism.:rolleyes:
LOL.

It wouldn't make you consider Christianity because that would be some old school, Old Testament wrath. And you wouldn't be inspired to turn to Islam because, as they tell us, they are the religion of peace, and Mohammed would never torch an infidel's house of worship. Only Buddhism could produce that kind of delicious karma.

YardleyLabs
09-09-2010, 04:27 PM
LOL.

It wouldn't make you consider Christianity because that would be some old school, Old Testament wrath. And you wouldn't be inspired to turn to Islam because, as they tell us, they are the religion of peace, and Mohammed would never torch an infidel's house of worship. Only Buddhism could produce that kind of delicious karma.
I've always been more into karmic justice and have definitely always found Judaism a lot more appealing the Christianity. That stuff is just too bland.:D:D

dnf777
09-09-2010, 04:35 PM
Are any other Christians out there upset at the burning of a holy book that references God, and many of the same prophets as the Bible does, including Jesus Christ? While Muslims do not regard Jesus as a deity, they do hold him in the highest esteem as a prophet of God. I would think burning the Koran would be frowned upon by peaceful Christians. (and fortunately, many have spoken out against this act of hate)

dixidawg
09-09-2010, 05:35 PM
So,,,,is it possible that this crazy old hate filled pastor had an ulterior motive????

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


(CNN) -- The Florida pastor who had planned to burn copies of the Quran on Saturday has called off the controversial event.
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center also announced Thursday that the imam who planned a mosque and Islamic center near ground zero in New York has agreed to move it to another
location.
Jones said he will travel to New York on Saturday to meet with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.

YardleyLabs
09-09-2010, 06:16 PM
So,,,,is it possible that this crazy old hate filled pastor had an ulterior motive????

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


(CNN) -- The Florida pastor who had planned to burn copies of the Quran on Saturday has called off the controversial event.
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center also announced Thursday that the imam who planned a mosque and Islamic center near ground zero in New York has agreed to move it to another
location.
Jones said he will travel to New York on Saturday to meet with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.
I don't care one way or the other if the Islamic Center is built. However, feeding trolls in the form of the Pastor of Bigotry will cause more problems than it will solve. If the center is moved, it may have ore to do with Donald Trump's offer than anything else.

Roger Perry
09-10-2010, 11:16 AM
So,,,,is it possible that this crazy old hate filled pastor had an ulterior motive????

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


(CNN) -- The Florida pastor who had planned to burn copies of the Quran on Saturday has called off the controversial event.
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center also announced Thursday that the imam who planned a mosque and Islamic center near ground zero in New York has agreed to move it to another
location.
Jones said he will travel to New York on Saturday to meet with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.

Jones appeared on all three network newscasts this morning. Jones said he has made contact with Musri. He has not made direct contact with Iman Faisal Abdul Rauf.
"No decision has been made to whether we will burn or not burn Qurans," he told NBC. "It is under serious conserideration, but at this this point no decison has been made."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39094190/ns/us_news-security/

The loony has not made up his mind yet.

Gerry Clinchy
09-10-2010, 11:45 AM
I don't care one way or the other if the Islamic Center is built. However, feeding trolls in the form of the Pastor of Bigotry will cause more problems than it will solve. If the center is moved, it may have ore to do with Donald Trump's offer than anything else.

Would that mean that the Imam's convictions are easily changed for the right sum of $?

I have heard ABSOLUTELY NO ONE support the Pastor's Koran-burning demonstration. Quite the opposite ... there seems to be universal (and ecumenical) agreement that it's an ignorant, dumb thing to do, even if the right to do so is protected.

Sounds like the same stance that many take on the mosque location?


Much of the muslim world does not (cannot, given their circumstances) that the US gov't does not supress such actions, and therefore, to the extremists, appear complicit or even supportive.

Using this logic, does it mean that if Cordoba House gets built in its proposed location, that the Muslim world will perceive the US govt as being supportive of doing so? If so, does this mean that it is perceived as some kind of "victory" for extremists who act in the name of Islam?

I still do have some tendency to agree with Hew's irritation that we have to ALWAYS be totally PC in dealing with Muslim sensitivities, and must turn the other cheek when they vilify the US and the West ad nauseum. Assuming it is only Muslim extremists who do that, is not this Florida pastor also just one of a small minority of extremists? (less than 50 people in his congregation in a country of 300 million!)Double standard?

badbullgator
09-10-2010, 12:08 PM
According to what I saw on the news this morning there is NO deal on behalf of those building the mosque.

luvmylabs23139
09-10-2010, 12:20 PM
Obumma just refused to condemn building the mosque but yet he condemns burning the Quoron. What a 2 faced bastard.

road kill
09-10-2010, 12:34 PM
Obumma just refused to condemn building the mosque but yet he condemns burning the Quoron. What a 2 faced bastard.
I beg to differ, there is NOTHING 2 faced about him!!:D


RK

Julie R.
09-10-2010, 01:13 PM
So,,,,is it possible that this crazy old hate filled pastor had an ulterior motive????

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


(CNN) -- The Florida pastor who had planned to burn copies of the Quran on Saturday has called off the controversial event.
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center also announced Thursday that the imam who planned a mosque and Islamic center near ground zero in New York has agreed to move it to another
location.
Jones said he will travel to New York on Saturday to meet with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.

I think you're right about the ulterior motive, but I think it had less to do with the mosque at ground zero than the good pastor's desire to garner as much publicity as he possibly could, including attracting more members--and thus more money in the coffers. Claiming credit for the mosque site being moved was more likely him responding to a rumor and keeping his name in the media. And in that he was wildly successful: he is a nobody and a loser and without all this media attention no one would give a dam about him and what he does. But now thanks to shoddy reporting many will think he is responsible if the mosque gets moved.

road kill
09-10-2010, 08:37 PM
Here is my issue with all of this.

#1--We all know the 1st amendment allows one to burn an American flag (unless road kill is around;-))

#2--We all know the 1st amendement allows Mosques to be built within shouting distance of "Ground Zero."

#3--We all know that the same 1st amendment allows one to burn a Koran (again, unless road kill is around;-))

But on #3 it's a front page news and a world wide issue, totally unacceptable.

Why you ask??

Fair question, evidently the peace loving Muslims will rally world wide and hate us and try to kill us even more than they already do/are!!

So, if they are so peace loving, respect and love America and only a small handfull are radicals, what's the big deal??

Or is it just a small handfull of radicals??

Lord Chamberlain regards............


RK

depittydawg
09-11-2010, 12:44 AM
Here is my issue with all of this.

#1--We all know the 1st amendment allows one to burn an American flag (unless road kill is around;-))

#2--We all know the 1st amendement allows Mosques to be built within shouting distance of "Ground Zero."

#3--We all know that the same 1st amendment allows one to burn a Koran (again, unless road kill is around;-))

But on #3 it's a front page news and a world wide issue, totally unacceptable.

Why you ask??

Fair question, evidently the peace loving Muslims will rally world wide and hate us and try to kill us even more than they already do/are!!

RK

Number 2 has also been front page news and plenty of threats and violence have occurred amongst 'peace' loving Americans.

dnf777
09-11-2010, 02:05 PM
Obumma just refused to condemn building the mosque but yet he condemns burning the Quoron. What a 2 faced bastard.

Building a house of worship and community center is hardly on par with burning of one's sacred religious tome.

Anyone who has to have that explained to them, needs to pay more attention in their kindergarten class.

luvmylabs23139
09-11-2010, 10:32 PM
Building a house of worship and community center is hardly on par with burning of one's sacred religious tome.

Anyone who has to have that explained to them, needs to pay more attention in their kindergarten class.

The building of the mosque is thousands of times worse than one fool in florida burning a book.
The mosque will be there for a very long time. The book burning is a 5 minute one and done thing.
That mosque should never be built and BUMFACE should say so.

david gibson
09-11-2010, 10:47 PM
Building a house of worship and community center is hardly on par with burning of one's sacred religious tome.

Anyone who has to have that explained to them, needs to pay more attention in their kindergarten class.

exactly. so ignore the quran burning, and focus on not letting that hideous structure built near ground zero.

for once you make sense!

david gibson
09-11-2010, 10:50 PM
why is this so hard to understand???

we have to allow the mosque to be built because the constitution protects it and we are insensitive to oppose it, ..........


yet you say we must NOT allow the kuran burning even though the constitution allows it, because it is insensitive to certain others.

do you people not see that YOU are the insensitive ones??????

david gibson
09-11-2010, 10:56 PM
Building a house of worship and community center is hardly on par with burning of one's sacred religious tome.

Anyone who has to have that explained to them, needs to pay more attention in their kindergarten class.

bullshit bullshit bullshit. where have we EVER said they cant build a house of worship????? anywhere but at Ground Zero? its GROUND ZERO that is the issue dave, but as is typical, your socialistic bias prevents exposing the entire truth.

any AMERICAN (DNF) that has to have this explained to them should move to the middle east.

you are one anti-american individual DNF. sad sad sad.....would your kids be proud of your posts?
probably so. and that in itself is sad.

david gibson
09-11-2010, 10:58 PM
The building of the mosque is thousands of times worse than one fool in florida burning a book.
The mosque will be there for a very long time. The book burning is a 5 minute one and done thing.
That mosque should never be built and BUMFACE should say so.

thank you. strong family values and conservatism will persevere with good folk like you standing up to these idiotic leftists.

charly_t
09-12-2010, 01:17 AM
I thought most adults knew that you don't give in to the school yard bully.....
I view the mosque building at ground "0" as just this sort of thing. Arm twisting and threats.

On the koran burning..........sad that an American would do this sort of thing.
I don't know just what thoughts went through that pastor's mind but sad that he is even giving voice to a thought like that.

dnf777
09-12-2010, 07:01 AM
1)exactly. so ignore the quran burning, and focus on not letting that hideous structure built near ground zero.

for once you make sense!



2)QUOTE=david gibson;674955]bullshit bullshit bullshit. where have we EVER said they cant build a house of worship????? anywhere but at Ground Zero? its GROUND ZERO that is the issue dave, but as is typical, your socialistic bias prevents exposing the entire truth.

any AMERICAN (DNF) that has to have this explained to them should move to the middle east.

you are one anti-american individual DNF. sad sad sad.....would your kids be proud of your posts?
probably so. and that in itself is sad.[/QUOTE]



Gee Dave, what do you do? Respond, then go booz it up at the bar, and come back all alcohol-induced machismo, and respond a SECOND time to the same thread in a more insulting manner?

Come back when you're sober, and again, please check the insults and comments regarding kids at the bar as you leave.

stoney
09-14-2010, 08:15 AM
whos been watching the world news today????????????
Kashmir is outraged by americas lunatic pastor riots and religious fanaticism prevail
17 people killed so far and a christian school attacked and burned despite the american ambassador to india being at pains to point out that america abhors the pastors actions
such are the consequences of free speech

road kill
09-14-2010, 08:37 AM
Building a house of worship and community center is hardly on par with burning of one's sacred religious tome.

Anyone who has to have that explained to them, needs to pay more attention in their kindergarten class.


Just curious, what Kindergarten class teaches "sacred religious tome" theory?



Your funny!!:D


RK

YardleyLabs
09-14-2010, 08:39 AM
...

you are one anti-american individual DNF. sad sad sad.....would your kids be proud of your posts?
probably so. and that in itself is sad.
If your notion of anti-American is opposition to your religious bigotry and right wing fanaticism, put me on the list. Fortunately, however, we live in a country built around religious (and even irreligious) tolerance. You seem to have problems with that, but it makes me pretty proud to be an American.

david gibson
09-14-2010, 08:50 AM
If your notion of anti-American is opposition to your religious bigotry and right wing fanaticism, put me on the list. Fortunately, however, we live in a country built around religious (and even irreligious) tolerance. You seem to have problems with that, but it makes me pretty proud to be an American.

nice job of selectively quoting me to make your point. too bad you are so dishonest with it.

this was not about religious tolerance. it was about showing some sensitivity this direction for once. there are mosques in my area, i dont have a problem with them. when you claim religious intolerance on my part you are flat out lying.

must have been a late, frustrating night at the strip clubs, eh?

dnf777
09-14-2010, 08:58 AM
when you claim religious intolerance on my part you are flat out lying.



This is from the man who when asked if he was referring to assassinating one man or the entire religion, he responded..............."yes".......


you're a real piece of work!

Wow! just because you tolerate a mosque somewhere near you, you're a real saint! I'm impressed!

Gerry Clinchy
09-14-2010, 08:59 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/world/asia/14kashmir.html?_r=1&ref=kashmir

It seems unclear how much of the violence is from the Koran burning stuff, and how much from the violence already roiling in Kashmir.



On Monday, state authorities sought to differentiate the new violence as separate from the other protests, linking it to the reports of the desecrated Koran. Indian authorities had fretted over the planned Sept. 11 burning of a Koran by a Florida pastor, Terry Jones (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/j/terry_jones_pastor/index.html?inline=nyt-per). Officials had asked Indian television channels not to broadcast such an inflammatory act, and Mr. Jones ultimately canceled his plans.



But S. S. Kapur, chief secretary of the Jammu and Kashmir State government, said reports by an Iranian state-run English language news channel, Press TV, (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/142368.html) of Koran desecration in the United States may have inflamed passions in Kashmir. Mr. Kapur denounced the alleged desecration and said authorities had since banned Press TV cable broadcasts in Kashmir. Later in the day, the state cabinet released a statement asking for calm.

Perhaps Petraeus should have also asked the media to give plenty of coverage to the general opposition to the pastor's ignorance.

It seems we are in Catch 22 ... we are supposed to suppress freedom of speech so we will be sensitive to Muslims, thereby adopting a Muslim position that one cannot criticize Islam.

Will it be classifed as a hate crime to burn the Koran (that has been mentioned on radio this AM)? If so, then such a law must include ALL religious books, not just the Koran. So, then, what about when the govt burned all those Bibles?

YardleyLabs
09-14-2010, 09:06 AM
.....where have we EVER said they cant build a house of worship????? anywhere but at Ground Zero? its GROUND ZERO that is the issue dave, but as is typical, your socialistic bias prevents exposing the entire truth.

any AMERICAN (DNF) that has to have this explained to them should move to the middle east.

you are one anti-american individual DNF. sad sad sad.....would your kids be proud of your posts?
probably so. and that in itself is sad.


nice job of selectively quoting me to make your point. too bad you are so dishonest with it.

this was not about religious tolerance. it was about showing some sensitivity this direction for once. there are mosques in my area, i dont have a problem with them. when you claim religious intolerance on my part you are flat out lying.

must have been a late, frustrating night at the strip clubs, eh?
My comment was addressing your propensity to attack the patriotism of those with whom you disagree. My exclusion of the first part of your comment was based more on my unwillingness to repeat language that is simply inappropriate for this forum. I did not alter the meaning of your comment, which I believe evidences a religious bigotry that also permeates your other posts on this subject. Your extremism speaks for itself.

What is your obsession with strip clubs? Maybe you, RK, and the GMan should make a date and get it out of your systems. Alternatively, you could all get together and open your own club -- Broke Back Buddies, or simply the 3B's.:rolleyes:

david gibson
09-14-2010, 09:42 AM
This is from the man who when asked if he was referring to assassinating one man or the entire religion, he responded..............."yes".......


you're a real piece of work!

Wow! just because you tolerate a mosque somewhere near you, you're a real saint! I'm impressed!

and just because i think one particular religion out of all on earth is despicable and violent although they claim to be a religion of peace that makes me intolerant to all religions? as usual, you twist and spin and lie to make you look right, but fail every time.

for someone who claims he doesnt care about what i say you sure follow me around

david gibson
09-14-2010, 09:42 AM
My comment was addressing your propensity to attack the patriotism of those with whom you disagree. My exclusion of the first part of your comment was based more on my unwillingness to repeat language that is simply inappropriate for this forum. I did not alter the meaning of your comment, which I believe evidences a religious bigotry that also permeates your other posts on this subject. Your extremism speaks for itself.

What is your obsession with strip clubs? Maybe you, RK, and the GMan should make a date and get it out of your systems. Alternatively, you could all get together and open your own club -- Broke Back Buddies, or simply the 3B's.:rolleyes:

great....personal attacks again, and against people that have nothing in this discussion.

par for the course for you!

dnf777
09-14-2010, 09:53 AM
and just because i think one particular religion out of all on earth is despicable and violent although they claim to be a religion of peace that makes me intolerant to all religions? as usual, you twist and spin and lie to make you look right, but fail every time.

for someone who claims he doesnt care about what i say you sure follow me around


Yeah, everyone should get ONE holocaust as a freebie. The second religion you support to be exterminated starts to raise eyebrows. Only after three condemnations of entire religions do you get labeled as "intolerant".

As to your last comment, you're FAR too entertaining to ignore! I wait in eager anticipation of you next comment! They're classics!!

LMAO again and again!

luvmylabs23139
09-14-2010, 10:46 AM
Look, building that mosque in that place is flat out wrong. It is a direct attack on anyone who lost someone they know that day.
I lost 2 friends I grew up with. It is just wrong wrong wrong and if it ever gets built I would personally cheer if it was destroyed!
What comes around goes around and also an eye for eye.

gman0046
09-14-2010, 10:53 AM
I'm with luvmylabs23139 and over 70% of the American public. No way that mosque should be built. Saw last night on TV, imam rauf is up to his eyeballs involved with muslim extremists. Watch for more to come on this.

YardleyLabs
09-14-2010, 10:57 AM
and just because i think one particular religion out of all on earth is despicable and violent although they claim to be a religion of peace that makes me intolerant to all religions? as usual, you twist and spin and lie to make you look right, but fail every time.

for someone who claims he doesnt care about what i say you sure follow me around
Are you suggesting that you need to hate more than one religion to be a religious bigot?????

And where did I say I didn't care what you say? I spend most of my days in anticipation of your next post, hoping for a bit of wisdom.



I'll tell you when I see it....;-)

luvmylabs23139
09-14-2010, 10:58 AM
Yeah, both of my long time friends worked for FDNY. They were in there trying to save people and lost ther lives because of it.
NOBODY can ever convince me that a tribute to the murders should be allowed to be built.

david gibson
09-14-2010, 11:09 AM
Are you suggesting that you need to hate more than one religion to be a religious bigot?????

And where did I say I didn't care what you say? I spend most of my days in anticipation of your next post, hoping for a bit of wisdom.



I'll tell you when I see it....;-)

you will never be able to see wisdom, its far to above your head.

if its a religion that condones stoning women to death, female circumcision, cutting off their noses, etc etc, then yes. i'll proudly stand against it, while you would defend it.

and who is the religious bigot? you are for the mosque, but condemned the christian who wanted to burn the koran. i support the constitutional right of each, but think each is morally wrong.

you only got half of that right. lots of wisdom there, yesiree.....

gman0046
09-14-2010, 11:40 AM
Yardley. nice post about strip clubs. The only strip clubs you'd be familiar with would be the Chippendales.

YardleyLabs
09-14-2010, 11:41 AM
you will never be able to see wisdom, its far to above your head.

if its a religion that condones stoning women to death, female circumcision, cutting off their noses, etc etc, then yes. i'll proudly stand against it, while you would defend it.

and who is the religious bigot? you are for the mosque, but condemned the christian who wanted to burn the koran. i support the constitutional right of each, but think each is morally wrong.

you only got half of that right. lots of wisdom there, yesiree.....
You are right. I see nothing wrong with building a place of worship anyplace that it is legal to do so and certainly see no reason for preferring one religion over another. I don't blame Muslims for the 9/11 attacks any more than I blame Christians for the Holocaust or the almost 2000 years pf persecution of Jews that preceded it. As I noted in my very first post on the subject, I would have no problem at all with a ban on all churches within x blocks of ground zero. Failing a ban on all, any church of any denomination is the same to me.

I also oppose desecration of religious and national symbols as being poor manners, but also believe that such actions are fully protected by our constitution (as do you). To the extent that the Koran or the Bible are holy books, neither is harmed by burning a printed copy, any more than a country is harmed by burning its flag. Symbols should never be confused with the ideals and values they represent.

dixidawg
09-14-2010, 11:48 AM
Failing a ban on all, any church of any denomination is the same to me.


So how do you feel about the mosque being approved and St Nicholas Church still fighting for approval 9 years later?????


http://www.greekboston.com/wordpress/2010/08/greek-orthodox-church-or-mosque-ground-zero/

YardleyLabs
09-14-2010, 12:13 PM
So how do you feel about the mosque being approved and St Nicholas Church still fighting for approval 9 years later?????


http://www.greekboston.com/wordpress/2010/08/greek-orthodox-church-or-mosque-ground-zero/
St. Nicholas has all the approvals that it needs to rebuild. That has never been the issue. What it wants is more (lots more) tax payer money to pay for the construction. They were offered tens of millions (for reasons I do not understand), but demanded tens of millions more. They were finally told to go ahead and build but not to expect any more funds from all of us.

I don't see anyone asking for tax payers to pay any of the costs of the proposed Islamic Center.
The entire Ground Zero rebuilding process has taken years longer than expected, due to the arduous rescue, recovery and rubble-removal efforts, followed by the bureaucratic process of establishing property ownership and designing the memorial and buildings.
By late 2008, St. Nicholas and the Port Authority had reached a tentative agreement for the church to give up its 1,200-square-foot site at 155 Cedar Street in exchange for 130 Liberty Street, a bigger site half a block away.
Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location.
"In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money, and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue," he said in a written statement. "They rejected that offer." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/ground-zero-greek-orthodo_n_691708.html)
Also see:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/17/ground-zero-church-archdiocese-says-officials-forgot/
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/02/the-other-religion-at-ground-zero.html

Cody Covey
09-14-2010, 12:33 PM
Yardley. nice post about strip clubs. The only strip clubs you'd be familiar with would be the Chippendales.

Stay Classy....

dixidawg
09-14-2010, 12:41 PM
St. Nicholas has all the approvals that it needs to rebuild. That has never been the issue. What it wants is more (lots more) tax payer money to pay for the construction. They were offered tens of millions (for reasons I do not understand), but demanded tens of millions more. They were finally told to go ahead and build but not to expect any more funds from all of us.

I don't see anyone asking for tax payers to pay any of the costs of the proposed Islamic Center.
The entire Ground Zero rebuilding process has taken years longer than expected, due to the arduous rescue, recovery and rubble-removal efforts, followed by the bureaucratic process of establishing property ownership and designing the memorial and buildings.
By late 2008, St. Nicholas and the Port Authority had reached a tentative agreement for the church to give up its 1,200-square-foot site at 155 Cedar Street in exchange for 130 Liberty Street, a bigger site half a block away.
Six months later, the Port Authority said negotiations ended because St. Nicholas demanded too much money and approval power over a vehicle security center beneath the sites. Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the church can return to its original location.
"In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money, and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue," he said in a written statement. "They rejected that offer." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/ground-zero-greek-orthodo_n_691708.html)
Also see:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/17/ground-zero-church-archdiocese-says-officials-forgot/
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/02/the-other-religion-at-ground-zero.html



Pay for the construction or pay for the required additional construction costs for "security"? Looks to me like that "public money" was to pay for some serious "building code requirements". Not exactly a gift to the church for them to rebuild with.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html?_r=1

.....
"Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.
In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.
The termination of negotiations is a major setback for the little church, a parish of 70 families that is nearly 90 years old. St. Nicholas officials had hoped to build an impressive structure, with a traditional Greek Orthodox dome, and a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero. That will not be possible on the church’s original 1,200-square-foot lot, although church officials say they hope for reconciliation....."








And for the Mosque, what is the source of the "private funding"? Has that ever been fully investigated and vetted? Do they have the same "security requirements" to build?

aandw
09-14-2010, 01:20 PM
Pay for the construction or pay for the required additional construction costs for "security"? Looks to me like that "public money" was to pay for some serious "building code requirements". Not exactly a gift to the church for them to rebuild with.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html?_r=1

.....
"Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.
In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.
The termination of negotiations is a major setback for the little church, a parish of 70 families that is nearly 90 years old. St. Nicholas officials had hoped to build an impressive structure, with a traditional Greek Orthodox dome, and a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero. That will not be possible on the church’s original 1,200-square-foot lot, although church officials say they hope for reconciliation....."








And for the Mosque, what is the source of the "private funding"? Has that ever been fully investigated and vetted? Do they have the same "security requirements" to build?

i don't think so, but the speaker did call for an investigation of the funding behind people expressing their 1st amendment rights opposing the mosque.

YardleyLabs
09-14-2010, 02:16 PM
Pay for the construction or pay for the required additional construction costs for "security"? Looks to me like that "public money" was to pay for some serious "building code requirements". Not exactly a gift to the church for them to rebuild with.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/nyregion/19church.html?_r=1

.....
"Last July, the Port Authority and the Greek Orthodox Church announced a tentative plan to rebuild the church just east of its original site, at Liberty and Greenwich Streets. The authority agreed to provide the church with land for a 24,000-square-foot house of worship, far larger than the original, and $20 million. Since the church would be built in a park over the bomb-screening center, the authority also agreed to pay up to $40 million for a blast-proof platform and foundation.
In recent negotiations, the authority cut the size of the church slightly and told church officials that its dome could not rise higher than the trade center memorial. The church, in turn, wanted the right to review plans for both the garage with the bomb-screening center and the park, something the authority was unwilling to provide. More important, authority officials said, the church wanted the $20 million up front, rather than in stages. Officials said they feared that the church, which has raised about $2 million for its new building, would come back to the authority for more.
The termination of negotiations is a major setback for the little church, a parish of 70 families that is nearly 90 years old. St. Nicholas officials had hoped to build an impressive structure, with a traditional Greek Orthodox dome, and a nondenominational center for visitors to ground zero. That will not be possible on the church’s original 1,200-square-foot lot, although church officials say they hope for reconciliation....."








And for the Mosque, what is the source of the "private funding"? Has that ever been fully investigated and vetted? Do they have the same "security requirements" to build?
The church that was destroyed was a small church with a very small membership. It was only open two days per week. The replacement church planned is six times bigger. $4 million has been raised so far for the construction. The cost -- ignoring issues of the security platform which would be paid by the Port Authority -- was estimated at over $20 million for construction alone. The church has basically been trying to get the cost funded by the public with little success. The exchange of properties began when the church objected to an entrance being proposed for the new memorial. What the PA has said is simply that they are welcome to build on the property they own. The PA will pay fair market value for underground rights but provide no other special consideration. That is sometimes what happens when you push too far in a negotiation where you are being given something to which you do not have any actual legal claim. The fact that the "gift" was promised years ago by a former Governor doesn't help the church in its arguments. No one around today would have made the original commitment. Maybe the chiurch would have been smarter to simply say "Thank you." At this point, they are no longer being offered that option.

None of this has anything to do with the mosque, since the mosque has not requested special consideration from anyone. Rather, others have asked to have laws bent to prevent the mosque from being built. The mosque is obviously allowed to raise funds from any legal source that it chooses. Under US law, it may not accept money from terrorist groups, but is otherwise unencumbered. As far as we know, almost no money has been raised to date and they may never succeed in raising the amounts needed. That is their problem. They are not the ones asking taxpayers to foot the bill.