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dnf777
09-12-2010, 08:33 PM
"China and India are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations."

M&K's Retrievers
09-12-2010, 08:58 PM
I think it was Homer Simpson. "Doh!"

david gibson
09-12-2010, 10:39 PM
"China and India are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations."


"China and India are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations."

yeah, we all saw how china allows so much freedom to their youth. ever read yao mings story? the story of the china youth in the olympic ceremonies? and their other athletes? the recent 60-mile 3-week traffic jam?? oh yeah - they respond well to their earthquake disasters too, right?? and dont get me started on their environmental protection.


thats something only you, yardley, and dippity could admire.

zeus3925
09-13-2010, 05:35 AM
I heard that India now has more PhD's per capita than we do. If that's true, they may overtake us in product development.

YardleyLabs
09-13-2010, 05:50 AM
"China and India are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations."
Thomas L. Friedman in an op-ed piece in the NY Times on 9/11 (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/opinion/12friedman.html).
So much of today’s debate between the two parties, notes David Rothkopf, a Carnegie Endowment visiting scholar, “is about assigning blame rather than assuming responsibility. It’s a contest to see who can give away more at precisely the time they should be asking more of the American people.”

Rothkopf and I agreed that we would get excited about U.S. politics when our national debate is between Democrats and Republicans who start by acknowledging that we can’t cut deficits without both tax increases and spending cuts — and then debate which ones and when — who acknowledge that we can’t compete unless we demand more of our students — and then debate longer school days versus school years — who acknowledge that bad parents who don’t read to their kids and do indulge them with video games are as responsible for poor test scores as bad teachers — and debate what to do about that.

Who will tell the people? China and India have been catching up to America not only via cheap labor and currencies. They are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations.

YardleyLabs
09-13-2010, 06:25 AM
yeah, we all saw how china allows so much freedom to their youth. ever read yao mings story? the story of the china youth in the olympic ceremonies? and their other athletes? the recent 60-mile 3-week traffic jam?? oh yeah - they respond well to their earthquake disasters too, right?? and dont get me started on their environmental protection.


thats something only you, yardley, and dippity could admire.
There is much not to admire about China. Political freedom is non-existant. The population density is 139/square km vs 32 in the US. It is so big (1.3 billion), with such a centralized government, that there is no effective way to manage all that needs to be done, leading to massive bureaucratic failures and corruption.

Having said all that, one still has to admire what has also worked in China. They are growing at an economic rate that is providing massive improvement in the quality of life for their citizens -- succeeding where other developing countries have failed miserably. They are transforming their country from an agrarian, subsistence economy to one sustaining major industrial development and capital formation. Based on their track record, they will soon be the largest economy in the world, while the US will fall to second, and eventually to third.

India's history and development have followed a very different path, but it has also begun to find more and more effective ways to make the pieces come together. While it will take a little longer, it is likely that India's economy will also surpass that of the US.

The point of the Op-Ed piece reference in the OP was that the US is losing its competitive position in the world. Some of that loss is expected. For example, there is no sustainable way to remain the world's largest economy in competition with countries that have populations that are 3-5 times bigger than ours. However, other than military might, it is hard to find any major categories of measurement where America is now number one. We have fallen behind in economic growth, standard of living, education, health status, etc. Our political power has shrunk significantly because of these changes and because we have become so used to being number one that we try to preserve the position we lost by becoming the biggest bully, where before our strength came from being a true leader. This, too, may be inevitable, as is the fading of our military preeminence.

We tend to forget that America has only been the world's dominant superpower for less than 50 years. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, we have reveled in what has been called Pax Americana, while failing to recognize, or not caring, about the unease with which our absolute dominance was seen by the rest of the world. Our dominance is rapidly ending. We have also taken for granted the dominance of the world by countries of European heritage, and that is also ending. However, we have a lot of choices in how we shape the role we will play in a world where there is no dominant leader, and where three of the top economies in the world will be non-European cultures.

Hew
09-13-2010, 07:08 AM
"China and India are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations."
Oh, please hurry, DNF. We know there's a teachable moment coming from you just over the horizon and we're yearning to learn.

Hew
09-13-2010, 07:24 AM
Our political power has shrunk significantly because of these changes and because we have become so used to being number one that we try to preserve the position we lost by becoming the biggest bully, where before our strength came from being a true leader. This, too, may be inevitable, as is the fading of our military preeminence.
Gee, it's a shame all that can't be squeezed onto a bumper sticker and sold at CodePink meetings...you'd make a killin'.

I'd be curious to know when you think we were "true leaders." It can't be anytime between 1945 and 1989 because nearly every foreign policy decision was made within the context of the Cold War and the threat, both real and implied, that if we were significantly provoked we'd bust a nuke off in your ear. So that leaves Clinton, W. Bush and now Obama who could possibly fit your model. Ask the Serbians if they think Bill Clinton bullied them. Since WWII our foreign policy has always been backed by the military, and every President, even the ones you like, have used that military might to further American objectives. When they have a D behind their name they're true leaders. When they have an R behind their name they're bullys.

dnf777
09-13-2010, 07:25 AM
Oh, please hurry, DNF. We know there's a teachable moment coming from you just over the horizon and we're yearning to learn.

I just put the quote out there for discussion. Seems to be saying what many could agree to, yet some may find the source surprising.

The other reason, was to put an interesting commentery out there for discussion, and see who the first jack-arse to make rude comments out of it would be. Sorry Hew, big Gib beat you out this time. Try again next time! :D

You guys are so predictable.

Hew
09-13-2010, 07:55 AM
The other reason, was to put an interesting commentery out there for discussion,...
Yeah, because with 4,000 posts in a little over a year you've barely found enough things to flap your gums about. Flap on, Dude.;-)

david gibson
09-13-2010, 07:56 AM
I just put the quote out there for discussion. Seems to be saying what many could agree to, yet some may find the source surprising.

The other reason, was to put an interesting commentery out there for discussion, and see who the first jack-arse to make rude comments out of it would be. Sorry Hew, big Gib beat you out this time. Try again next time! :D

You guys are so predictable.

this is rude?

"yeah, we all saw how china allows so much freedom to their youth. ever read yao mings story? the story of the china youth in the olympic ceremonies? and their other athletes? the recent 60-mile 3-week traffic jam?? oh yeah - they respond well to their earthquake disasters too, right?? and dont get me started on their environmental protection.

thats something only you, yardley, and dippity could admire."

its just facts, sir. i took facts and turned the angle on your story - just like you do ad-nauseum. you are just like obama - cant take the slightest criticism - talk about predictable....

dnf777
09-13-2010, 08:21 AM
Yeah, because with 4,000 posts in a little over a year you've barely found enough things to flap your gums about. Flap on, Dude.;-)

Thanks for the insult.
Have a nice day.

ducknwork
09-13-2010, 11:23 AM
Thanks for the insult.
Have a nice day.

Thanks for the laugh.
Have a nice day.

road kill
09-13-2010, 12:18 PM
I just put the quote out there for discussion. Seems to be saying what many could agree to, yet some may find the source surprising.
The other reason, was to put an interesting commentery out there for discussion, and see who the first jack-arse to make rude comments out of it would be. Sorry Hew, big Gib beat you out this time. Try again next time! :D

You guys are so predictable.

#1--You want to be of superior intellect so badly, must be dissapointing.;-)

#2--You are the most predictable poster here.:D


RK

gman0046
09-13-2010, 12:44 PM
Thats 11 posts /day. How do you say get a life nicely?

Buzz
09-13-2010, 02:24 PM
Thats 11 posts /day. How do you say get a life nicely?

Interesting opinion from someone who has about 25 posts in 500 that have anything to do with dogs. The only one I can find that has anything to do with training is:



My YLF is also 1.5 yrs. old and occasionally does the same thing. I'd rather she wake me up to poop then do it in the house.

Gerry Clinchy
09-13-2010, 02:30 PM
Our dominance is rapidly ending. We have also taken for granted the dominance of the world by countries of European heritage, and that is also ending.

Look on the bright side ... maybe they'll feel sorry for us and send us some foreign aid :-)

gman0046
09-13-2010, 02:51 PM
Buzz how about your idiotic post demeaning those of us who have dogs participating in Dock Diving. Do you think you made any friends doing that? Too bad your dogs are not athletic enough to compete. Then again you probably don't have the know how to train them.

dnf777
09-13-2010, 02:59 PM
Buzz how about your idiotic post demeaning those of us who have dogs participating in Dock Diving. Do you think you made any friends doing that? Too bad your dogs are not athletic enough to compete. Then again you probably don't have the know how to train them.

Just when I thought the bar couldn't get any lower, you somehow manage to lower it yet again! Congrats!


RK: have no idea where you attack came from. Maybe you better explain for those of us of inferior intellect?

Buzz
09-13-2010, 02:59 PM
Buzz how about your idiotic post demeaning those of us who have dogs participating in Dock Diving. Do you think you made any friends doing that? Too bad your dogs are not athletic enough to compete. Then again you probably don't have the know how to train them.

Probably not.

david gibson
09-13-2010, 03:09 PM
Buzz how about your idiotic post demeaning those of us who have dogs participating in Dock Diving. Do you think you made any friends doing that? Too bad your dogs are not athletic enough to compete. Then again you probably don't have the know how to train them.

oh darn i missed that one.

road kill
09-13-2010, 03:43 PM
Just when I thought the bar couldn't get any lower, you somehow manage to lower it yet again! Congrats!


RK: have no idea where you attack came from. Maybe you better explain for those of us of inferior intellect?

hmmmmmm, the victim card.
Is that page 2 or 3????:confused:
Your funny!!:D


RK

zeus3925
09-13-2010, 03:56 PM
Dock diving, really? Is that a real sport? Does it go on the pedigree?

I was training in Alabama one winter when I stopped to talk to a gentleman in the RV park where I was staying. He had a couple of nice looking labs, upon which I commented favorably. He said he was on his way to a "field trial". I asked what stake he was running in. It took all the effort I could muster to restrain myself from laughing at him when he said seriously, "We have them entered into the dock diving"

gman0046
09-13-2010, 04:11 PM
Wish DD was a field trial event. Probably the only one i'd have a chance at winning. Its a sport where you and your family can have a lot of fun with your best friends. My dogs love it.

Buzz
09-13-2010, 04:14 PM
Most of us don't have a chance of winning the type where birds are involved.

At least not the ones that award points that are recognized by AKC.

ducknwork
09-13-2010, 09:36 PM
Dock diving, really? Is that a real sport? Does it go on the pedigree?



Retrieving dead wood ducks in a swamp doesn't go on a pedigree either...

Just sayin......

david gibson
09-14-2010, 07:10 AM
Do you need to train them to do this? My dogs fly off the end of our dock at the lake, and have from the first time they laid eyes on it. Scared hell out of me, we've got a lot of ski boats zooming around and they look like they're jumping a good 20 feet out, wobbly dock and all.
Can't be anything wrong with something that looks like so much fun for everybody, I'd do it if it was close enough.
Walt

there is definitely some training that is beneficial if you want to get the best out of the dog. one thing is teaching them to leap from the end of the dock, as opposed to 2 or 3 feet before, its all in the stride and timing and placement.

there is also "pop". training to jump more up rather than too level
so they get more distance.

they measure where the base of the tail meets the water, so some try to teach and and throw the toy higher so the dog is more vertical, putting the base of the tail further forward.

an then there is extreme vertical. some dogs just dont get it.

my dog has a good, hard, exuberant water entry, to the point of me always being fearful of underwater objects, but he just doesnt jump all that far since he is a show line, big and blocky and beefy like a running back, rather than sleek like a wide receiver.

i have seen many a trained retriever with handlers saying their dog jumps 20 feet all day at their pool or pond and then get up on that dock and dog freezes, and the handler goes home pissed and embarrassed.

whats for certain is the dogs love it. its like taking a group of 5 yr old kids to the pool, they go nuts. i like it as something different to do, i dont get too excited about since my dog is not a top contender and thats fine because i dont need to spend that much money since i also have hunt tests and thats the priority without a doubt.

Dockdogs is working with UKC to have a point and title system, so i hear......

gman0046
09-14-2010, 07:45 AM
David, good post on Dock Diving. Like you said, hitting the very edge of the dock can mean a difference of several feet. It takes a lot of practice for the dogs and the handler. A well placed throw can make all the difference. The dogs absolutely go nuts over it. If you could see the dog in my Avatar up close you'd see a smile on her face. Sure its fun to win but you don't have to win to have fun. Its all about the dogs. Its not like hunting were its you and the dogs, its something for the wife and kids to enjoy as well. We've met a lot of real nice folks at events. The old timers are always eager to help the newbies. It's a great activity to keep your dogs in shape during the spring and summer time. Try it you and your dogs will enjoy it.

dnf777
09-14-2010, 07:53 AM
David, good post on Dock Diving. Like you said, hitting the very edge of the dock can mean a difference of several feet. It takes a lot of practice for the dogs and the handler. A well placed throw can make all the difference. The dogs absolutely go nuts over it. If you could see the dog in my Avatar up close you'd see a smile on her face. Sure its fun to win but you don't have to win to have fun. Its all about the dogs. Its not like hunting were its you and the dogs, its something for the wife and kids to enjoy as well. We've met a lot of real nice folks at events. The old timers are always eager to help the newbies. It's a great activity to keep your dogs in shape during the spring and summer time. Try it you and your dogs will enjoy it.


could someone please explain the purpose of dockdiving competition? It looks like all have fun, including the dog, but aren't most dog events based on tasks the dogs were bred to perform? sure getting in water is part of a dogs job, but specifically training it to run full blast the the very edge then launch really doesn't do much for retrieving, does it? I mean, I'd rather my dog sit attentively at watch as several ducks go down and mark them, rather than getting all hyped up focusing on the edge of the bank. I've had some companion dogs that I would consider this for as a fun outlet, but probably wouldn't want my hunting dog trained on this.

Not donning a flame suit, as this is not a dig, just a question and observation.

gman0046
09-14-2010, 08:06 AM
Don't know about your dog dnf, but mine can Dock Dive and hunt as well. Too bad your dog can't do both as its a lot of fun for the dogs. Having to explain the purpose of Dock Diving is self explanatory. Its to have fun with your dogs. As far as it doesn't do much for retrieving, its obvious you've seen the "speed retrieve" competition. Its amazing how someone who knows nothing about a subject can bad mouth it just to be argumentative. Its a typical dnf post. dnf have your dogs ever won ANY competition? The dog in my Avatar has won many. She's a Dock Diving Champion who never missed the Final Four in any event she participated in and a tireless hunter. It's one thing to post anti-American drivel but now you've taken to bad mouthing dogs having fun. Sad,sad,sad.

aandw
09-14-2010, 08:13 AM
could someone please explain the purpose of dockdiving competition? It looks like all have fun, including the dog, but aren't most dog events based on tasks the dogs were bred to perform? sure getting in water is part of a dogs job, but specifically training it to run full blast the the very edge then launch really doesn't do much for retrieving, does it? I mean, I'd rather my dog sit attentively at watch as several ducks go down and mark them, rather than getting all hyped up focusing on the edge of the bank. I've had some companion dogs that I would consider this for as a fun outlet, but probably wouldn't want my hunting dog trained on this.

Not donning a flame suit, as this is not a dig, just a question and observation.

if the dogs enjoy it and the owners enjoy it and training their dogs is fun and makes them better pets, why not do it? why would someone buy a lab to run trials and hunt tests and not hunt them? that is what they are bred for (hunting), not tests and trials. and what is up with sending a dog to a professional trainer? if you don't have time to train it yourself how do you have time to hunt? if you don't have time to hunt why own a hunting dog?

gman0046
09-14-2010, 08:18 AM
aandw, its a typical dnf mindless post taking a shot at something he obviously knows nothing about. Sad,sad,sad.

dnf777
09-14-2010, 08:25 AM
Don't know about your dog dnf, but mine can Dock Dive and hunt as well. Too bad your dog can't do both as its a lot of fun for the dogs. Having to explain the purpose of Dock Diving is self explanatory. Its to have fun with your dogs. As far as it doesn't do much for retrieving, its obvious you've seen the "speed retrieve" competition. Its amazing how someone who knows nothing about a subject can bad mouth it just to be argumentative. Its a typical dnf post. dnf have your dogs ever won ANY competition? The dog in my Avatar has won many. She's a Dock Diving Champion who never missed the Final Four in any event she participated in. It's one thing to post anti-American drivel but now you've taken to bad mouthing dogs having fun. Sad,sad,sad.

I asked a question. I don't think many FC dogs compete in DD, but that's a little different story. I was curious as if many HT dogs do both, and if so, does the DD trainig affect their marking abilities? YOU are the most argumentative SOB I've seen.

I just don't have a need to train my dog to jump in the water. He did that from a pup! Glad you got your dog through that critical phase though! ;-)

dnf777
09-14-2010, 08:28 AM
if the dogs enjoy it and the owners enjoy it and training their dogs is fun and makes them better pets, why not do it? why would someone buy a lab to run trials and hunt tests and not hunt them? that is what they are bred for (hunting), not tests and trials. and what is up with sending a dog to a professional trainer? if you don't have time to train it yourself how do you have time to hunt? if you don't have time to hunt why own a hunting dog?

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with DD, and never said I did. I was wondering if getting a dog all revved up for entry would diminish his marking ability? Should have known better than to think gman would be anything but an arse an turn this into a scrap.

Anyone BESIDES the 3Bs run HT and DD?

gman0046
09-14-2010, 08:32 AM
SOB? Why do you have to resort to mindless name calling? You've been exposed again for trying to take a shot a Dock Diving for no reason at all. I know of several professional trainers who have handled dogs in DD they've trained for hunting. How could DD affect marking? Are you for real? Again I ask have you ever had a dog win ANYTHING? I seriously doubt you even have a dog.

aandw
09-14-2010, 08:52 AM
DD not your cup of tea, i can live with that. but before you said "this is not a dig", it sure sounded like one. an athlete is an athlete, running, jumping, and retrieving, the best are the best. there is a reason they are the best, they train and compete.
is mens' figure skating a sport or what a man was bred for? you can have your opinion and i can have mine on that one. but one thing is for sure it takes a hell of a lot of training and drive to be able to do it.
but how does anybody watch it?

dnf777
09-14-2010, 08:57 AM
SOB? Why do you have to resort to mindless name calling? You've been exposed again for trying to take a shot a Dock Diving for no reason at all. I know of several professional trainers who have handled dogs in DD they've trained for hunting. How could DD affect marking? Are you for real? Again I ask have you ever had a dog win ANYTHING? I seriously doubt you even have a dog.

Again? This was the first time I've ever commented on it, and was asking a legitimate question. I still wonder if conditioning a dog to get all revved up on the line like that adversely affects marking? Is that not a concern? I would think one would at least ponder that. After all, you can't train one thing without untraing another. I think that's a legit question.

As for calling you an argumentative SOB, I think the shoe fits, but I'll redact that statement if it makes you feel better, or like answering a question about the sport you're obviously passionate about.

david gibson
09-14-2010, 09:04 AM
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with DD, and never said I did. I was wondering if getting a dog all revved up for entry would diminish his marking ability? Should have known better than to think gman would be anything but an arse an turn this into a scrap.

Anyone BESIDES the 3Bs run HT and DD?

there you go, turning it into a personal attack.


get your head out of the sand and think for a second. there are many many many dogs and owners out there that dont hunt. no one said dock dogs is only for hunting dogs. this is a great venue for someone who owns a pet lab, chessie, yorkshire terrier, doberman, jack russel, anything.

in the typical events i go to, out of 50 dogs entered maybe 3 are hunt test dogs as well. it is a great venue and way to enjoy a dog/owner relationship for the masses.


there are 2 methods - "the chase" and "place and send". "the chase" is when a handler stands at the end of the dock, gives the command "fetch" or whatever and the dog runs and they throw it right before the dog gets there, enticing a chase like jump. this is highly effective for some.


others prefer "place and send", which is really just a mark. thats what i do most of the time, that way my dog does not get any breaking ideas, and i line him and lay my hand in front just like in retrieving, making him concentrate on that mark.

first master leg at 20 mos. so i am not concerned that i am messing him up. he definitely knows the difference between the two games we play.

have you ever been to my website? i invite you to look in the "Dogs" section at some recent events, i think you will see how much fun these dogs are having, dogs that otherwise would just be regular house pets. it gives them and their owner a venue for fun and competition.

i have several friends whose dogs jump 6 or 10 feet, and sometimes even balk, and never have a chance at a win or a title. but they dont care, they have so much fun enjoying this activity with their dogs they happily spend the money, travel costs, hotels, etc, just like we do for HT/FTs.

i hope this was helpful for you to understand better


by the way, top dogs jump 23-26 feet, somewhere around 28 is the record. for ev, the record is 8 feet, common events have 7' + jumps:

http://www.outdoorsphotographyusa.com/gulfcoastwaterfowlerspashdogs/DSC_4316seqmed.bmp

probably only about 10-20% of the dogs understand this concept. and when they get it, its a blast. awesome to see them at hold, eyes locked on that prize, and how they really strive to get the heigth

tell me this dog isnt totally in to it!

http://www.outdoorsphotographyusa.com/Dogs/DiscoveryGreen2010/DSC_1655amed.jpg

david gibson
09-14-2010, 09:07 AM
also - SRS includes it as part of their events.....

Buzz
09-14-2010, 09:09 AM
SOB? Why do you have to resort to mindless name calling? You've been exposed again for trying to take a shot a Dock Diving for no reason at all. I know of several professional trainers who have handled dogs in DD they've trained for hunting. How could DD affect marking? Are you for real? Again I ask have you ever had a dog win ANYTHING? I seriously doubt you even have a dog.


I suppose I should feel bad for stirring the pot. But as least now you're talking about dogs! ;-)


(sent from my iTouch, front row on the runway):rolleyes:

PS: I have won with my dogs...

gman0046
09-14-2010, 09:09 AM
dnf, It's not just me questioning your motives. As always, others have picked up on your posts as well. Its also obvious you have little or no knowledge of what is beneficial for dogs. DD is nothing more then then instilling a dogs desire to retrieve. How could that be a detriment? I've never heard training for one thing affects negatively on what a dog has learned previously. I chalk that up to the source.

zeus3925
09-14-2010, 09:13 AM
I think dnf is taking some of the heat from my remark about dock diving.

Seriously, I do have a dog that would be a good candidate for dock diving. I cringe when ever he hits the water hard. He has a really spectacular water entry. My concern is that he might impale himself on an stick or other object just beneath the surface.

gman, You're getting enjoyment from your dog and that is great. Better that than letting him molder away as a speed bump in the run. Maybe us field trialers and hunt testers are the fools putting $thousands in our dogs to get some joy winning a little silk ribbon.

Buzz
09-14-2010, 09:17 AM
I've never heard training for one thing affects negatively on what a dog has learned previously. I chalk that up to the source.


I don't know. I was watching Dennis Voight on his DVD "Training Alone." He talked about not doing fun bumpers with movement next to the dogs that will excite them because it erodes the steadiness in "fully trained dogs." I think this is what DNF was talking about, but I could be wrong.

My dogs are high powered in the extreme. I have enough trouble getting them to sit still as it is.

gman0046
09-14-2010, 09:20 AM
zeus3925, no one is a fool for training a dog for any activity thats enjoyment for both owners and dogs. I spent a bunch on the dog in my Avatar getting her trained by a professional for hunt training. Her Sire was a MH and I sent her to the professional who trained and handled him. She is an accomplished hunter and dock diver. We only DD in the spring and summer anyway. Again, I've seen professional hunt trainers handle dogs in DD they've trained for hunting. I'd be happy to supply their names if anyone's interested.

dnf777
09-14-2010, 09:33 AM
I've never heard training for one thing affects negatively on what a dog has learned previously. .

I've never questioned you dog training ability, but that statement calls it into question. Care to post that statement on the regualr RTF and see what people say?

zeus3925
09-14-2010, 09:36 AM
Darn nice photogs there, Gib! Did you do the work?

Julie R.
09-14-2010, 09:41 AM
could someone please explain the purpose of dockdiving competition? It looks like all have fun, including the dog, but aren't most dog events based on tasks the dogs were bred to perform? sure getting in water is part of a dogs job, but specifically training it to run full blast the the very edge then launch really doesn't do much for retrieving, does it? I mean, I'd rather my dog sit attentively at watch as several ducks go down and mark them, rather than getting all hyped up focusing on the edge of the bank. I've had some companion dogs that I would consider this for as a fun outlet, but probably wouldn't want my hunting dog trained on this.

Not donning a flame suit, as this is not a dig, just a question and observation.

Just an observation, that isn't even directed at dnf and his ilk, but when someone apologetically states he doesn't mean to dig, or offend, it's a sure bet he fully intends to prod, dig and offend; and any preceding apologetic excuse is fraudulent as well as insincere. Qualifying boorish commentst beforehand does NOT make them any less offensive.

And as for remarks like this:


Originally Posted by zeus3925 http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=675766#post675766)
Dock diving, really? Is that a real sport? Does it go on the pedigree?



Of course it doesn't go on the pedigree. :rolleyes: Neither does 99 percent of other activities people do with dogs daily for fun and enjoyment. Personally I think anything a person trains their dog to do and gets off the couch and does, is a good thing.

And, cool photos, Gibson!http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

david gibson
09-14-2010, 10:12 AM
I think dnf is taking some of the heat from my remark about dock diving.

Seriously, I do have a dog that would be a good candidate for dock diving. I cringe when ever he hits the water hard. He has a really spectacular water entry. My concern is that he might impale himself on an stick or other object just beneath the surface.

gman, You're getting enjoyment from your dog and that is great. Better that than letting him molder away as a speed bump in the run. Maybe us field trialers and hunt testers are the fools putting $thousands in our dogs to get some joy winning a little silk ribbon.

like i said, 100% amateur trained, master pass at 20 mos, and a dock diver since 6 months. where's the detriment?

dnf777
09-14-2010, 10:18 AM
[FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]Just an observation, that isn't even directed at dnf and his ilk, but when someone apologetically states he doesn't mean to dig, or offend, it's a sure bet he fully intends to prod, dig and offend; ]

So by that logic, that comment WAS directed at me and my ilk? ;)

Julie, with this crowd, you have to pre-appologize if you say the sky is blue. That is sure to offend someone and start a firestorm.

If Gib would have just commented about his dog's accomplishments I would have been appreciative, as I am of Buzz's comments regard Dennis.

I've seen those DD comps, and some (not all) of the dogs appeared 'less than steady', in anticipation of the big event. Is it not legit to ask how this affects marking ability (or steadieness?)

M&K's Retrievers
09-14-2010, 10:27 AM
Is it not legit to ask how this affects marking ability (or steadieness?)

Sure it's legit to wonder about it but it's their dog. Why question it on POTUS? If DD creates problems, they have to deal with it.

david gibson
09-14-2010, 10:31 AM
So by that logic, that comment WAS directed at me and my ilk? ;)

Julie, with this crowd, you have to pre-appologize if you say the sky is blue. That is sure to offend someone and start a firestorm.

If Gib would have just commented about his dog's accomplishments I would have been appreciative, as I am of Buzz's comments regard Dennis.

I've seen those DD comps, and some (not all) of the dogs appeared 'less than steady', in anticipation of the big event. Is it not legit to ask how this affects marking ability (or steadieness?)

the majority of dogs that are not HT/FT dogs are often very unsteady, some totally out of control. drives me crazy, but its their dog.

the people with trained retrievers never have an issue with steadiness. its not like we go up there and just do a whole weekend of out of control fun bumpers. we instill and expect the same level of OB as we would anywhere.

gman0046
09-14-2010, 10:37 AM
My dogs are as steady on the dock as in the blind. It's all a matter of obedience.

Buzz
09-14-2010, 10:47 AM
Sure it's legit to wonder about it but it's their dog. Why question it on POTUS? If DD creates problems, they have to deal with it.


I was just trying to get him to talk about dogs for a change.

gman0046
09-14-2010, 10:50 AM
Buzz, re. your post on stirring the pot, glad to see you really do have a sense of humor.

ducknwork
09-14-2010, 10:53 AM
DG, that is pretty impressive that the handlers got all six of their black dogs to jump so close to each other!

david gibson
09-14-2010, 11:16 AM
DG, that is pretty impressive that the handlers got all six of their black dogs to jump so close to each other!

you ignatz, thats not what that is at all.

its just one handler!

for just one handler to get all six dogs in perfect order is even tougher!

ducknwork
09-14-2010, 11:26 AM
you ignatz, thats not what that is at all.

its just one handler!

for just one handler to get all six dogs in perfect order is even tougher!

I bet that last one is pissed that he didn't get a bumper.

zeus3925
09-14-2010, 11:33 AM
Of course it doesn't go on the pedigree. :rolleyes: Neither does 99 percent of other activities people do with dogs daily for fun and enjoyment. Personally I think anything a person trains their dog to do and gets off the couch and does, is a good thing.


Read my post #43