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luvmylabs23139
09-20-2010, 08:39 AM
Can anyone explain to me why it is better to induce mercury, a known toxin into my house than use a tiny bit more electricity?:confused::confused::confused::confuse d:
Stocking up on the traditional lightbulbs as much as I can!
Rmember the swordfish bann due to mercury in the 70's?

YardleyLabs
09-20-2010, 09:00 AM
Can anyone explain to me why it is better to induce mercury, a known toxin into my house than use a tiny bit more electricity?:confused::confused::confused::confuse d:
Stocking up on the traditional lightbulbs as much as I can!
It's a fair question. Incandescent bulbs use 4-8 times the electricity of fluorescent bulbs producing the same amount of light. Lighting makes up a little less than 10% of total electricity consumed by residential customers. At the low end, a shift to fluorescent lighting would reduce total electrical consumption by 6-7% overall. That is roughly equivalent to what would be saved if all clothes dryers were eliminated and we returned to hanging our clothes outside to dry. That savings works out to about 100 billion KwH per year or about 59 million barrels of crude.

TN_LAB
09-20-2010, 09:13 AM
Is the mercury introduced from simply using them? Or does it only happen if/when the fluorescent bulbs are broken? I honestly don't know, so don't assume I'm being cute with my question.

For the record, I use em all.

luvmylabs23139
09-20-2010, 09:17 AM
If they break, you have a problem. But seriously they have a long list of rules for disposal.
WE got rid of the floating thermometer in our pool after a young lab decided to try and retrieve one. If i'm that worried as a dog owner about mercury why the heck would anyone with a toddler want that toxin to be the only option in their home.

luvmylabs23139
09-20-2010, 09:25 AM
Is the mercury introduced from simply using them? Or does it only happen if/when the fluorescent bulbs are broken?
.

Lead based paint is not harmful. What is harmful is eating lead based paint, yet if you own a home that may have had lead based pant applied to it you must file a dsclaimer when you sell the house.
Talk about a double standard:rolleyes:

david gibson
09-20-2010, 09:32 AM
If they break, you have a problem. But seriously they have a long list of rules for disposal.
WE got rid of the floating thermometer in our pool after a young lab decided to try and retrieve one. If i'm that worried as a dog owner about mercury why the heck would anyone with a toddler want that toxin to be the only option in their home.

one of the types of places i audit in my day job is fluorescent bulb recyclers. the amount of mercury in them is very minute, breaking one is no real danger, breaking them and eating the powder inside is not recommended ;-)

the high intensity bulbs - like in a stadium - have much more and must be handled with much more care. but what is in your house is no big deal

david gibson
09-20-2010, 09:35 AM
Lead based paint is not harmful. What is harmful is eating lead based paint, yet if you own a home that may have had lead based pant applied to it you must file a dsclaimer when you sell the house.
Talk about a double standard:rolleyes:


the danger from eating it is when it chips and kids play with it - windowsills, and outside.

without kids, the greatest danger is inhalation. my former next door neighbor lived in an older house once and decided to remodel. sanding lead based paint and subsequent inhalation of the dust while pregnant was not a good thing, the baby and now young teen was definitely affected with learning disabilities.

so the disclaimer is not such a bad idea imho.

luvmylabs23139
09-20-2010, 09:40 AM
breaking them and eating the powder inside is not recommended ;-)

Same as lead based paint. There is no issue with using the paint on walls, the problem is with eating it. Now we have to disclose if the paint may have been used. Just wait a few years, we will then be required to disclose we used those newly required bulbs in a home when we try to sell it.:rolleyes:
That's how ths stupid gov't works.

david gibson
09-20-2010, 09:51 AM
Same as lead based paint. There is no issue with using the paint on walls, the problem is with eating it. Now we have to disclose if the paint may have been used. Just wait a few years, we will then be required to disclose we used those newly required bulbs in a home when we try to sell it.:rolleyes:
That's how ths stupid gov't works.

i hear your frustration - but you can change a few bulbs much more easily and cheaply than the paint..... ;)

luvmylabs23139
09-20-2010, 09:53 AM
20 years from now we will all be in trouble when we try to sell houses that had those mercury lightbulbs used in them. The gov't will require all lightbulbs to be those within a few years. They will have deamed our houses hard to sell. The dangers of mercury are already well known. That is my point. They are forcing a known toxin into my home.

luvmylabs23139
09-20-2010, 09:55 AM
i hear your frustration - but you can change a few bulbs much more easily and cheaply than the paint..... ;)
Wait 20 years, a broken bulb will be the reason we can't sell a house.
Think dumocrats.
Eating paint is not something anyone should be doing, but we all suffer from the stupid and ignorant.:rolleyes:

YardleyLabs
09-20-2010, 10:20 AM
The biggest problems with lead paint are not the chips, but the dust. Those most susceptible are children under the age of five because of the way it affects their neurological development. Older houses are constantly shedding paint dust inside and out. Inside, daily vacuuming and mopping can mitigate the problem. Outside, the lead accumulates in the dirt surrounding the house. Infants and toddlers, for unknown reasons, spend an inordinate amount of their time crawling around (Why can't they walk like adults?). The dust gets on their hands and their hands go in their mouths. All that said, however, the biggest problems are likely to be caused by dirt in public parks and school playgrounds, rather than dust in the house. The reason is simple. Both tend to be located near highways and the primary source of environmental lead remains that which is left over from the days of leaded gasoline. The best thing we have done to reduce lead caused brain damage was to remove the lead from gas.

david gibson
09-20-2010, 10:34 AM
The biggest problems with lead paint are not the chips, but the dust. Those most susceptible are children under the age of five because of the way it affects their neurological development. Older houses are constantly shedding paint dust inside and out. Inside, daily vacuuming and mopping can mitigate the problem. Outside, the lead accumulates in the dirt surrounding the house. Infants and toddlers, for unknown reasons, spend an inordinate amount of their time crawling around (Why can't they walk like adults?). The dust gets on their hands and their hands go in their mouths. All that said, however, the biggest problems are likely to be caused by dirt in public parks and school playgrounds, rather than dust in the house. The reason is simple. Both tend to be located near highways and the primary source of environmental lead remains that which is left over from the days of leaded gasoline. The best thing we have done to reduce lead caused brain damage was to remove the lead from gas.

while i agree the best thing we have done is remove lead from gas, i disagree that it it still the main problem. i have heard what you said before - i am not calling you out specifically as i know you just picked this fact up, but i have taken literally hundreds and hundreds of soil samples form urban areas near highways with no statistically elevated lead found. i suspect is liberal journalists trying to find a story to write.


and lead dust??? yes, it is a problem - but mostly for the reason i stated above - sanding and remodeling, not so sure it is from the manner you describe. most lead paint has been painted over one or many times, so it is only a danger if it is sanded, peels and chips or a kid chews on a painted banister. lead paint 3 layers deep cant magically shed its dust through 2 layers of non lead paint.

Cody Covey
09-20-2010, 11:17 AM
The amount of mercury in those light bulbs is probably less than the amount in fish that you may be eating at any given time. I have broken and know many who have as well broken the backlights of monitors while taking them out to replace and we are all just fine :)

YardleyLabs
09-20-2010, 12:01 PM
while i agree the best thing we have done is remove lead from gas, i disagree that it it still the main problem. i have heard what you said before - i am not calling you out specifically as i know you just picked this fact up, but i have taken literally hundreds and hundreds of soil samples form urban areas near highways with no statistically elevated lead found. i suspect is liberal journalists trying to find a story to write.


and lead dust??? yes, it is a problem - but mostly for the reason i stated above - sanding and remodeling, not so sure it is from the manner you describe. most lead paint has been painted over one or many times, so it is only a danger if it is sanded, peels and chips or a kid chews on a painted banister. lead paint 3 layers deep cant magically shed its dust through 2 layers of non lead paint.
Most of my information comes from forensic studies done by ATC Associates, and environmental engineering company, in NYC under the direction of Dr. Vincent Colluccio, a widely recognized expert in lead based paint contamination with whom I worked for several years.

Among the things found in investigating cases where children developed dangerous levels of blood lead was that the primary source of lead dust in the homes came from dirt tracked into the houses from outside rather than from lead paint on the walls. To some extent that pattern was undoubtedly a NYC phenomenon that traces back to the work of Robert Moses.

Moses was the architect of the City's highway and bridge systems. A by-product of his work in building elevated roadways was the development of many schools, playgrounds and parks underneath and next to those same roads. Tests conducted in those parks and roads found that lead levels in the dirt were so high that the dirt was classified as hazardous waste. That lead came from two sources: leaded gasoline, and paint dust from repainting the roads. Unfortunately, the lead left behind is not volatile, and never leaves the soil until the soil has been removed.

You are right that LBP in normal buildings is most likely to be released during construction projects. That is why the law requires that such projects be performed by qualified staff with appropriate containment. However, the dust released during such projects -- even when performed by unqualified workers without containment -- is seldom the cause of elevated blood lead in children.