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Randy Moore
09-26-2010, 11:46 AM
Where can you buy good stick man set up? Or How Can you make a good one Thanks Randy

Brad Turner
09-26-2010, 12:14 PM
White t-shirt on a wooden "T." Simple. Cheap.

Evan
09-26-2010, 12:26 PM
Where can you buy good stick man set up? Or How Can you make a good one Thanks RandyHere's the best. http://www.rushcreekpress.com/images/587_New_MARKSmen_with_launcher.jpg

http://www.rushcreekpress.com/booksdvds.html
No comparison to any others I've seen. Lighter than most, yet strong and durable. And more visible than most.

Evan

Kasomor
09-26-2010, 12:41 PM
Make your own.

Here's a series of pictures of the ones I made. They are 2' wide by 5' tall.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2211054790069038877NdGbDU

The pole they hang from is 3/4" conduit pipe bought at Home Depot. 10' long was $6. Cut it in half you get two poles...duh... :p

The white material is heavy duty roll down blind fabric bought at a fabric store. I know folks who have used white tarp material.

1" PVC pipe is used for top and bottom rails. There is a PVC T fitting in the middle of the top rail. The leg of the T slips over the conduit pipe. Slot is cut in the top of the conduit and a screw is strategically inserted in the PVC T so that the stick men won't spin in the wind.

Total cost was less then $15 each and they will last forever.

PM me for more info if needed.

Kasomor
09-26-2010, 12:59 PM
I also use my stickman poles for a blind.

I have limited space in my dog truck and don't have room for dedicated stickmen and multiple holding blinds.

The poles serve double duty. Can be used for 4 stickmen or a 4 pole holding blind.

Chris Atkinson
09-26-2010, 01:11 PM
I use white tyvek coveralls. I hang them on a wire shirt hanger. Stick a plastic fencepost (tallest one you can find) in the ground, hang the hanger....done.

If it's really windy, you can stick the spike through the leg to anchor it down or tie an overhand knot around the bottom of the fencepost with the leg bottoms to keep it from blowing sideways like a flag.

I've found no reason to spend money on commercially made stickmen.

Joe Martin
09-26-2010, 02:25 PM
Seems sort of silly to buy 'em. I use Chris' idea, but stick a piece of PVC pipe on the post to make it taller. Also added a "T" of PVC instead of a coat hanger. Use a little bungee cord - you know, those little useless ones you get when you buy 24 bungees for $10 at the discount store - to keep a shirt tight in the wind.

Also bought a bunch of white shirts, smocks etc at a commercial laundry - after they've laundered a couple of thousand times, them sell them for a buck or something. Surprising how many of the female medical scrubs are XL...

Joe

Evan
09-27-2010, 06:53 AM
Seems sort of silly to buy 'em.

JoeIt wouldn't seem so silly if you had some of them. You can make 'em all kinds of ways, and I did that for many years. But then there's the best.

Evan

GulfCoast
09-27-2010, 07:03 AM
Having used all of them, Butch Green's one piece diamond stickmen are better than anything else out there for my purposes. You can set them out in about 3 seconds, and about that long to have them ready for the truck. Nothing to get lost. Love 'em.

HiRollerlabs
09-27-2010, 07:26 AM
Dave Lybeck from ND makes some nice stickmen and other dog equipment. I'll see if I can find his website. They are high-quality and break into two pieces so they are easy to store.

Jim Person
09-27-2010, 07:41 AM
I have 1" wooden poles painted orange for blind stakes, I then took some 1.25 or 1.5 inch can't remember, pvc pipe that fits snugly over the wooden poles, made up cross pieces from a "T" and the leftover pvc.and some old white t shirts. I didn't glue the T on the pvc pole so I can take them apart and store easily.. Kinda killed 2 birds with 1 stone... any of the mentioned ways will work, it's just a personal preference and what works for you... Jim

Keith Stroyan
09-27-2010, 07:55 AM
I use white tyvek coveralls. I hang them on a wire shirt hanger. Stick a plastic fencepost (tallest one you can find) in the ground, hang the hanger....done.
...
I've found no reason to spend money on commercially made stickmen.
Likewise, except I use the 6 ft. green "garden" stakes.

I got a stick woman as a judge's gift (for teasing my co-judge.) Black bra on one of my tyvek suit models.

Had to retire her tho. Two young ladies almost drove off the road on the gravel turn at my back field when they saw her.

FOM
09-27-2010, 11:29 AM
I like the Butch Green stickmen, I own 7 of them, light weight, easy to use, easy to carry and bright as can be!

Ken Bora
09-27-2010, 12:22 PM
I've found no reason to spend money on commercially made stickmen.
I agree,
I use the umbrella stands that we all have in our trucks anyway.
And hang upon them the white rain suits and spare white shirts
on hangers. We also all have in our trucks anyway. It is clutter
I am already driving around with every day. It works fine.



.

Ken Bora
09-27-2010, 12:23 PM
Likewise, except I use the 6 ft. green "garden" stakes.

I got a stick woman as a judge's gift (for teasing my co-judge.) Black bra on one of my tyvek suit models.

Had to retire her tho. Two young ladies almost drove off the road on the gravel turn at my back field when they saw her.


They say the best way to catch a couple pigeons is to keep one in the trap…….;-)




.

WingsAtDawn
09-27-2010, 06:32 PM
I understand how stickman are used via training videos but I really do not understand why they are used. Is it because in the FT game you throwers are wearing white coats? How does this translate to HT or hunting?

Ricky Elston
09-27-2010, 06:42 PM
Having used all of them, Butch Green's one piece diamond stickmen are better than anything else out there for my purposes. You can set them out in about 3 seconds, and about that long to have them ready for the truck. Nothing to get lost. Love 'em.

Yep, and he's great to deal with. I've been using them for about 5 years now.

freefall319
09-27-2010, 06:52 PM
I use white tyvek coveralls. I hang them on a wire shirt hanger. Stick a plastic fencepost (tallest one you can find) in the ground, hang the hanger....done.

If it's really windy, you can stick the spike through the leg to anchor it down or tie an overhand knot around the bottom of the fencepost with the leg bottoms to keep it from blowing sideways like a flag.

I've found no reason to spend money on commercially made stickmen.

Good Idea.

david gibson
09-27-2010, 06:57 PM
wooden flounder gig with a 1"x1/2"x3' crossbar, small notch cut in the flounder gig for the crossbar to fit snugly in, then a 2" bolt with a wingnut through the two. slap an old tshirt over it and you are good to go. loosen the wingnut and the cross bar folds parallel with the gig for storage.

not sure how common flounder gigs are in wisconsin though.....:confused:

Ken Bora
09-27-2010, 08:38 PM
flounder gig???

Evan
09-27-2010, 09:05 PM
I understand how stickman are used via training videos but I really do not understand why they are used. Is it because in the FT game you throwers are wearing white coats? How does this translate to HT or hunting?There are a number of misconceptions about the use of stickmen, especially in the training of gundogs and HT dogs. But that's largely because many trainers only use them to identify gun stations, and don't approach training as conceptually as others.

The more flexible and conceptual in your training your are, the more likely that you will train in a more drill oriented manner. It's a good subject, and one that deserves lengthy discussion.

I use stickmen in a good portion of my blind training, as well as marks. It should be understood that marks, whether hidden guns or not, are often made difficult because of conceptual arrangement, and the influences of those concepts. If you train with obvious concepts, you'll have an easier time working through them successfully once you've gradually eliminated visible guns.

Evan

Chris Miller
09-27-2010, 09:07 PM
flounder gig???

Same as a frog gig on larger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrnwenjbc7o&feature=related

RF2
09-27-2010, 09:08 PM
"It wouldn't seem so silly if you had some of them. You can make 'em all kinds of ways, and I did that for many years. But then there's the best.

Evan"

Electric fence post: $1.79
White shirt from thrift store: 1.00
Coat hanger: free
Total: $2.79

I'm not sure my dog would notice the $33 difference but my wallet does!

James Seibel
09-27-2010, 09:23 PM
I understand how stickman are used via training videos but I really do not understand why they are used. Is it because in the FT game you throwers are wearing white coats? How does this translate to HT or hunting?

I may not have the best answer to your question but I will give it my best shot.

Stick men are used for the dog to No# 1 Reference the Mark -- But lets look at one QAA dog I run in training -- He MARKS and dose not reference the stick man any way. So I use them to set up concepts to train on.

No#2 more important as I understand it. -- In a field trial you have a PICTURE when coming to the line - That picture is 2 or 3 or 4 white coat guys.

So every time I walk to the line with a trial dog - pup or older dog I try and have 2-4 stick men in the field with that picture or LOOK of a field trial set up . Like a stick man out there at 350 yards center and one to the left 175 yards and one over there to the right about 150 yards ( just a example )

Dog must focus on and not head swing from a mark - Reason for running ABCD drills and or singles off multiple stick men. Plus to have dog run tight lines and be comfortable running pass a short stick man to a longer mark.

Now I just bought 2 Malcolm Retired Gunners - Hence I can now retire one or two stick men and( I think ) I can make the best set up ever. 4 Thunder 500 that have fired flawlessly and 4 stick men that we bought called Day's End, from Dogs Afield.

I have used home made ones and no more of them.

Hunt test dogs - I either use stick men or just place the Thunder 500 out there with no stick men.

Hunting - You want to train a gun dog ? Build a pigeon loft place 100 or more birds in it. Get them to home and loft fly. Either take them a distance form home and release to fly back to the loft to be shot for the dog and or just release the birds to fly. Fill the field up with decoys and or have the loft near a pond. Shot birds OUT OF THE SKY for your gun dog and you will have the next best set up to hunting there is. All the marks in the world off stick men or real men can not come close to this set up I have done for gun dog training. The sky is the limit on how much more real you want to make the set up.

Now the dog sees where the real birds come from - UP IN THE SKY - not down on the ground. I call it the ultimate duck dog training.

Another little fact - place a pen of mallards off to the side some area where the pigeons will fly over the pen much of the time and the mallards will call to the pigeons as if they are ducks. At least mine have done that most of the time.

You all can fell free to pick apart my remarks on the stick men ::smile::

JIM

Evan
09-27-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm not sure my dog would notice the $33 difference but my wallet does!You're right. That's not the part they notice. And it would not be the only part you would notice. But to make the comparison there are a number of components involved. A training approach involving more drills using them, the full body shape, portability, etc. Do as you like.

If you don't do anything with them beyond identifying gun stations you can get by with nearly anything. Good luck.

Evan

Ken Bora
09-27-2010, 09:42 PM
.......A training approach involving more drills using them, the full body shape, portability, etc. Do as you like.

If you don't do anything with them beyond identifying gun stations you can get by with nearly anything. Good luck.

Evan

Oh please Evan!!!!
I use a fricken rain suit on an umbrella stand, see above post.
And we do some very cool stuff.
Use um on marks, blinds, drills, anything.
Just a weeeee bit condescending here I feel.




.

Evan
09-27-2010, 09:58 PM
Oh please Evan!!!!
I use a fricken rain suit on an umbrella stand, see above post.
And we do some very cool stuff.
Use um on marks, blinds, drills, anything.
Just a weeeee bit condescending here I feel.




.Ken, I've used nearly every idea mentioned over a couple decades of using and expanding on drill work involving stickmen. It's not all one way or another. I'm aware that others use stickmen for more uses than one. All I'm saying is that the more versatile your drill work, the more you come to appreciate a starkly visible human form for their influence. I have seen a difference in the reaction of many dogs in the same type of drill using different structure, and nothing has produced the uniform favorable reactions of top quality stickmen - with the exception of actual human beings in white.

Evan

Ken Bora
09-27-2010, 10:04 PM
...All I'm saying is that the more versatile your drill work, the more you come to appreciate a starkly visible human form for their influence.

Evan


Evan,
Don't you know how big my ass is?
My rain pants on a hanger on an umbrella stand are
"STARKLY VISIBLE"

trust me ;-)



.

kjrice
09-27-2010, 10:19 PM
I like the Butch Green stickmen, I own 7 of them, light weight, easy to use, easy to carry and bright as can be!
Ditto! I got tired of the t-shirt on a pvc pole stuck in a shore fishing rod holder. Butch's diamonds are light, fast, and will last forever.

RF2
09-27-2010, 10:30 PM
Evan, I was just poking at you a little bit. :p I can't blame a man for selling, but I don't really buy the human form stickman improves the drill work stuff.

We asked to borrow a stickman at the last series of an Open yesterday and a man with 3 dogs in the RHOF pulls out a stinkin' curtain rod and a dingy deliverman shirt. I wonder what he would say about your stickman theory? :rolleyes:

That being said, stickmen in general will improve drill work. I wish I could convince more of my hunt test friends of that fact. :confused:

Tim West
09-27-2010, 11:27 PM
Go to golf repair shop and ask for old golf shafts. they will give you all you want. Get a white kitchen trash sack that has a cinch strap. Duct tape one side of the cinch to top of shaft. Duct tape the other side of the cinch down the shaft about a foot and a half.
Stick the shaft in the ground. Wind catches sack to make wind sock stickman. Put bottom of second one in top of first one and you have taller stickman with twice as much white.

Roll it up when you are done. Light and takes up little room. Very bright too.

Total cost. About Nothing.

Evan
09-28-2010, 06:37 AM
Evan,
Don't you know how big my ass is?
My rain pants on a hanger on an umbrella stand are
"STARKLY VISIBLE"

trust me ;-)



.Ken,

I don't know exactly what those dimensions are. BUTT I'll take your word about the stark visibility of those rain pants! :D

Evan

HiRollerlabs
09-28-2010, 06:47 AM
Dave Lybeck's products are at www.stakeoutinc.com (http://www.stakeoutinc.com)

One guy who bought the stickmen is a welder and said he cannot make them for what Dave sells them for. Reasonably priced, high-quality, easy to break down and store. We bought the 5 foot, he sells 4 foot as well.

Evan
09-28-2010, 06:51 AM
Evan, I was just poking at you a little bit. :p I can't blame a man for selling, but I don't really buy the human form stickman improves the drill work stuff.I appreciate that. Fact is I don't make a dime from the sales Vince makes on the stickmen seen on my site. I only list them there as a favor. I promote them for the best reason possible; I believe in them. I don't get a commision from Tri Tronics either, but I promote them vigorously for the same reason.

I've been experimenting with stickmen in various applications for appox. 3 decades. I've seen the differences in how dogs react to various shapes, and materials, and have kept entries in my journal on them as part of design, and drill development. I realize not everyone is going to get the same vision, or even care as much about this aspect of training.

Most of the home made's with shirts and other fabric covers all but disappear in even moderate wind. They virtually collapse. The diamond shapes remain open, but are smaller and less visible at a distance. A body shape that remains open and stable is more visible for more distance, in more situations, and tends to attract more meaningful attention than any other in most cases. Dogs have been more apt to flare them when required to run lines tight to them, much like they would real people, for example. That's been pretty consistent as I've worked with them, and it's led to some of the refinements in design over the years.

In nearly all cases, real people get the best results. It's just that few of us can get an unlimited supply of those when and where we need them, epspecially ones who will stand still that long, don't take breaks, and don't talk while the dog is working!

Evan

ward
11-18-2010, 07:23 PM
u can make your own for a few bucks