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View Full Version : Yep, pot isn't a gateway drug...



ducknwork
10-07-2010, 06:23 AM
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Potheads sure aren't more likely to use harder drugs than the rest of us...That's what we always hear.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39550634/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Leddyman
10-07-2010, 07:14 AM
You know, back in the day I used to be a pot head. I don't do any drugs any more, but I did eventually get into some coke and some acid....well a lot of coke...it was a problem. (Does anyone else have trouble remembering the late 80's?) For all of you who think you know something let me tell you that pot didn't have anything to do with the other drugs. It is a personality thing. Either you are looking for an escape from yourself or you aren't. Pot is just usually what you start with because it is most available. If there wasn't any pot you would go straight to the hallucinogens. Its your personality. Either you are gonna do drugs or you aren't. I personally don't think you belong in jail for smoking pot, grow your own. If you make meth or sell cocaine or crack I'm for shooting you on the spot. JMO.

Voice of experience

road kill
10-07-2010, 07:32 AM
You know, back in the day I used to be a pot head. I don't do any drugs any more, but I did eventually get into some coke and some acid....well a lot of coke...it was a problem. (Does anyone else have trouble remembering the late 80's?) For all of you who think you know something let me tell you that pot didn't have anything to do with the other drugs. It is a personality thing. Either you are looking for an escape from yourself or you aren't. Pot is just usually what you start with because it is most available. If there wasn't any pot you would go straight to the hallucinogens. Its your personality. Either you are gonna do drugs or you aren't. I personally don't think you belong in jail for smoking pot, grow your own. If you make meth or sell cocaine or crack I'm for shooting you on the spot. JMO.

Voice of experience
The part you are not seeing is that the pot brought you into the culture where other drugs were common and easily accesible.

The "GATE" if you will.



RK

ducknwork
10-07-2010, 08:22 AM
The part you are not seeing is that the pot brought you into the culture where other drugs were common and easily accesible.

The "GATE" if you will.



RK

Exactly. When you engage in risky behaviors, you begin to hang around others who are doing the same thing and the chances that you are going to be exposed to 'more risky' behaviors is increased significantly.

If you like to go to parties to get drunk, eventually you are going to go to parties that have a couple stoners hanging out in the backyard. At that moment, you chances of trying it are exponentially greater than someone who has never been exposed to it, simply because you have been. Then you might decide to try it and like it...So you start going to parties with that crowd to smoke dope. One night there might be someone hanging out in the back room doing lines or shooting up...slippery slope.


Voice of observation

I'm not attacking you, Leddyman, just trying to get across another point of view.

Franco
10-07-2010, 08:36 AM
You know, back in the day I used to be a pot head. I don't do any drugs any more, but I did eventually get into some coke and some acid....well a lot of coke...it was a problem. (Does anyone else have trouble remembering the late 80's?) For all of you who think you know something let me tell you that pot didn't have anything to do with the other drugs. It is a personality thing. Either you are looking for an escape from yourself or you aren't. Pot is just usually what you start with because it is most available. If there wasn't any pot you would go straight to the hallucinogens. Its your personality. Either you are gonna do drugs or you aren't. I personally don't think you belong in jail for smoking pot, grow your own. If you make meth or sell cocaine or crack I'm for shooting you on the spot. JMO.

Voice of experience

Research backs up your assesment that it is not a Gateway drug. People that go on to other drugs would do so with or without pot. Research also shows that most pot users don't drink and those that do opt for wine over harder booze. (see mpp.org).

Just as the ban of booze financed organized crime in this coutry, the ban on pot has financed the drug cartels into muti-million dollar crime syndicates. Whereas, decriminalization would allow for taxing and substance control.

California will legalize it in November which will allow them to tax it. Long the #1 cash crop in Canada, the Canadians are debating legalization as well. Interesting is that the states with higher educational levels support decriminalization whereas the less educated states in the south still attempt to enforce their Draconian laws.

Lets don't forget the medicinal benefits that pot delivers to Cancer sufferers.

road kill
10-07-2010, 09:01 AM
Research backs up your assesment that it is not a Gateway drug. People that go on to other drugs would do so with or without pot. Research also shows that most pot users don't drink and those that do opt for wine over harder booze. (see mpp.org).

Just as the ban of booze financed organized crime in this coutry, the ban on pot has financed the drug cartels into muti-million dollar crime syndicates. Whereas, decriminalization would allow for taxing and substance control.

California will legalize it in November which will allow them to tax it. Long the #1 cash crop in Canada, the Canadians are debating legalization as well. Interesting is that the states with higher educational levels support decriminalization whereas the less educated states in the south still attempt to enforce their Draconian laws.

Lets don't forget the medicinal benefits that pot delivers to Cancer sufferers.

Maybe if we all just smoke weed, everything would be cool man!

Far out man.....can you dig it?????

RK

paul young
10-07-2010, 09:09 AM
just a hypothetical:

who would you rather be seated with at a wedding reception- a guy who smoked a joint on the way to the dinner from the church or a mean drunk pounding down the Jack Daniels?

just because it's legal or illegal doesn't necessarily dictate whether their behavior is going to be acceptable or not.-Paul

dnf777
10-07-2010, 09:12 AM
The part you are not seeing is that the pot brought you into the culture where other drugs were common and easily accesible.

The "GATE" if you will.



RK

Well, I remember bowling alley restrooms and under the bleachers at highschool football games, kids smoking funny looking cigarettes. Maybe these "gates" should be banned as well?

Maybe you guys are both to the left of me on this, but I think big goobermint should stay out of my life, my house, and my garden. I don't need big brother to protect me from myself!

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that EVERY rock concert I've been to had "vendors" peddling various intoxicants. Maybe we should extend the "gate" logic and outlaw rock concerts and probably 75% of country western concerts, since associating with these crowds may lead to marijuana use, crack use, ultimately, the demise of all who attend.

Franco
10-07-2010, 09:20 AM
Oh, I almost forgot to mention that EVERY rock concert I've been to had "vendors" peddling various intoxicants. Maybe we should extend the "gate" logic and outlaw rock concerts and probably 75% of country western concerts, since associating with these crowds may lead to marijuana use, crack use, ultimately, the demise of all who attend.

Lets don't forget Willie Nelson! We could burn all of his CD's since they were inspired while he was under the influence of devil weed and since some would have us believe he is a threat to our national security! ;-)

ducknwork
10-07-2010, 10:35 AM
Well, I remember bowling alley restrooms and under the bleachers at highschool football games, kids smoking funny looking cigarettes. Maybe these "gates" should be banned as well?

Maybe you guys are both to the left of me on this, but I think big goobermint should stay out of my life, my house, and my garden. I don't need big brother to protect me from myself!

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that EVERY rock concert I've been to had "vendors" peddling various intoxicants. Maybe we should extend the "gate" logic and outlaw rock concerts and probably 75% of country western concerts, since associating with these crowds may lead to marijuana use, crack use, ultimately, the demise of all who attend.

OR, just enforce the law and not allow drugs in any venue.

I'm sure that Tila Tequila was glad that all her 'fans' were allowed to be stoned out of their mind at a 'rock' concert...

dnf777
10-07-2010, 10:48 AM
OR, just enforce the law and not allow drugs in any venue.

..

right, so why apply a double standard, rather than just do as you say, and enforce the law, even at the medical mj clinic? It sound like they did just that, or will be shortly. No problem with that.

ducknwork
10-07-2010, 10:50 AM
right, so why apply a double standard, rather than just do as you say, and enforce the law, even at the medical mj clinic? It sound like they did just that, or will be shortly. No problem with that.

I am thoroughly confused. How did I advocate a double standard in any way?

Franco
10-07-2010, 10:57 AM
just a hypothetical:

who would you rather be seated with at a wedding reception- a guy who smoked a joint on the way to the dinner from the church or a mean drunk pounding down the Jack Daniels?

just because it's legal or illegal doesn't necessarily dictate whether their behavior is going to be acceptable or not.-Paul

That's a no-brainer! Anyone but the obnoxious drunk.

And, speaking of gateways, just think of the people that don't drink booze because they prefer pot.

If anything should be outlawed, it should be booze.

When was the last time a man beat his spouse under the influence of pot?
Or, wrecked a speeding vehicle or couldn't keep a job because of pot? Yet, we as a society condone a much more harmful substance with booze because it is part of the older culture. Why is the booze lobby/industry spending so much money to fight California's attempt to legalize it? Because they know people will gravitate to a less harmful substance!

road kill
10-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Well, I remember bowling alley restrooms and under the bleachers at highschool football games, kids smoking funny looking cigarettes. Maybe these "gates" should be banned as well?

Maybe you guys are both to the left of me on this, but I think big goobermint should stay out of my life, my house, and my garden. I don't need big brother to protect me from myself!

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that EVERY rock concert I've been to had "vendors" peddling various intoxicants. Maybe we should extend the "gate" logic and outlaw rock concerts and probably 75% of country western concerts, since associating with these crowds may lead to marijuana use, crack use, ultimately, the demise of all who attend.


Please put me back on ignore.

This has nothing to do with the OP and even less to do with my answer.
I said nothing about "banning" anything.

Never.......

I identified how it can be a "gateway drug."

BTW---are you sure you remember all that stuff?:rolleyes:


RK

dnf777
10-07-2010, 12:00 PM
I am thoroughly confused. How did I advocate a double standard in any way?

Didn't mean to imply YOU said that. In general though, that argument has been used to counter any efforts to legalize marijuana for medical purposes or otherwise.

dnf777
10-07-2010, 12:00 PM
Please put me back on ignore.

This has nothing to do with the OP and even less to do with my answer.
I said nothing about "banning" anything.

Never.......

I identified how it can be a "gateway drug."

BTW---are you sure you remember all that stuff?:rolleyes:


RK


Very big of yourself to assume I was responding to you. Don't mean to burst your bubble, and if its any consolation, I WAS ignoring you!

You're too entertaining to put on ignore....I just choose not to respond most of the time.

sometimes a great notion
10-07-2010, 12:32 PM
Oh God, not this debate again. Those people ruin it for people like myself that are legitimate card holders. They know its gonna get legalized, they are just making extra on the side. The price per oz will go down but not as much as people would like it too.
The Governator just sign a bill that will make posessing an OZ a hundred dollar fine.

Julie R.
10-07-2010, 12:50 PM
just a hypothetical:

who would you rather be seated with at a wedding reception- a guy who smoked a joint on the way to the dinner from the church or a mean drunk pounding down the Jack Daniels?

just because it's legal or illegal doesn't necessarily dictate whether their behavior is going to be acceptable or not.-Paul

Paul gets it. Half a century and untold billions of dollars wasted on the war on drugs, and there's probably more pot in this country than ever. How many stoners punch out someone they disagree with at a party? Go out and rob a liquor store at gunpoint because they ran out of weed? Shoot someone over a North Face jacket or a pair of Nikes? And most of the stoners that get pulled over for DUI are noticed because they're driving too slow. Personally, I'm favor of legalizing pot, crack, meth and all of them; people are going to abuse substances whether or not they're legal or they start out by booze or a "gateway" drug. Think of the money we'd save plus the tax revenue; we could probably have free health care.

Franco
10-07-2010, 01:02 PM
Paul gets it. Half a century and untold billions of dollars wasted on the war on drugs, and there's probably more pot in this country than ever. How many stoners punch out someone they disagree with at a party? Go out and rob a liquor store at gunpoint because they ran out of weed? Shoot someone over a North Face jacket or a pair of Nikes? And most of the stoners that get pulled over for DUI are noticed because they're driving too slow. Personally, I'm favor of legalizing pot, crack, meth and all of them; people are going to abuse substances whether or not they're legal or they start out by booze or a "gateway" drug. Think of the money we'd save plus the tax revenue; we could probably have free health care.

Julie you are making way too much sense!;-)

The war on drugs in nothing but hysteria. The money can certainly be put to better use like boarder security. Plus, we would not only get the street level pushers off the streets we would be arresting fewer people meaning tax payers would be saving $82,000 per prisoner per year in incarseration cost. Tax it and spend a small fraction on what we now spend on the war on drugs towards Drug Education. Cost savings will also occur if those suffering with pain were allowed to smoke pot as opposed to taking expensive medications with harmful side effects.

Julie R.
10-07-2010, 01:14 PM
The war on drugs in nothing but hysteria. The money can certainly be put to better use like boarder security.

We wouldn't need as much border security if we took away the profit from the Mexican narco-cartels. Anyone read about that lake on the Tex/Mex border they control, and how they shot a vacationing couple that was boating on the lake? Just saw a short blurb in our news; I think they shot the husband and the woman was trying to get his body back to the U.S. side while they were shooting at her but had to abandon him to save her own life. I think it was last week. It sickens me that these criminals are not only crossing the border with ease, they're killing Americans.

ducknwork
10-07-2010, 01:16 PM
We wouldn't need as much border security if we took away the profit from the Mexican narco-cartels. Anyone read about that lake on the Tex/Mex border they control, and how they shot a vacationing couple that was boating on the lake? Just saw a short blurb in our news; I think they shot the husband and the woman was trying to get his body back to the U.S. side while they were shooting at her but had to abandon him to save her own life. I think it was last week. It sickens me that these criminals are not only crossing the border with ease, they're killing Americans.

I heard about that story. It sounded awfully fishy to me as soon as I heard it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there was some foul play on her part.

dnf777
10-07-2010, 01:34 PM
Cost savings will also occur if those suffering with pain were allowed to smoke pot as opposed to taking expensive medications with harmful side effects.

Bingo!
That, my friend, and the millions of pharma lobbyist dollars, are the reason it's not legal. Expensive pain meds, VERY expensive anti-nausea meds, and VERY VERY expensive anti-anxiety and anti-depressive meds would ALL be displaced, and we can't have Pharma lose its profits now, can we?

This is yet another reason that the recent supreme court decision to liberalize campaign contribution laws and tranparency (opacity, as it may be) are terrible. Several years ago it came out that south american drug cartels were funnelling money into elections. Their profits would evaporate if drugs were legalized, and they probably have more vested interest in keeping drugs illegal to support black market prices. It would be nice to know if any pesos were trickling into campaign coffers for that reason.

OTOH, I understand Frito-Lay has lobbied for its legalization...:rolleyes:

dnf777
10-07-2010, 01:39 PM
I heard about that story. It sounded awfully fishy to me as soon as I heard it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there was some foul play on her part.

When I heard the 911 call she made, I got that same feeling in my gut, that something was amiss. Can't put my finger on it, but it was a strong feeling.

sometimes a great notion
10-07-2010, 02:13 PM
I am only opposed to the legalization of harder drugs as they actually do harm. Pot does nothing to you, no withdrawls, dts or the sort. No one has ever died from it, unlike the others.

The defination of insanity is trying to teach people like Dknwork that there is not any harm over and over again. They will never believe the cold hard facts about pot. Even if it comes out in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Too much too lose on all parties for it to become legal. I would only like to see it legalized in all 50 states for people like me, Cancer Patients and the others that have terminal diseases.

Colon Cancer patient and survivor for 2 years

Franco
10-07-2010, 02:24 PM
I am only opposed to the legalization of harder drugs as they actually do harm. Pot does nothing to you, no withdrawls, dts or the sort. No one has ever died from it, unlike the others.

The defination of insanity is trying to teach people like Dknwork that there is not any harm over and over again. They will never believe the cold hard facts about pot. Even if it comes out in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Too much too lose on all parties for it to become legal. I would only like to see it legalized in all 50 states for people like me, Cancer Patients and the others that have terminal diseases.

Colon Cancer patient and survivor for 2 years

The Spirits/Beer Lobby in California are spending several million trying to fight legalization by voters. The Pharma lobbist are doing billboards and a direct mail campaign against legalization. California has already Decriminalized and now moving to Legalization.

Because it is being put to a vote, they both realize they will lose by a substanial margin and will relocate efforts to N Mexico and the northeastern states where Decriminalization is supported by the vast majority.

depittydawg
10-07-2010, 07:06 PM
The part you are not seeing is that the pot brought you into the culture where other drugs were common and easily accesible.

The "GATE" if you will.



RK

That's true. And it is because pot is / was "illegal" that people who use it are forced through that gate.

road kill
10-07-2010, 08:07 PM
Very big of yourself to assume I was responding to you. Don't mean to burst your bubble, and if its any consolation, I WAS ignoring you!

You're too entertaining to put on ignore....I just choose not to respond most of the time.


Really....then why did you quote me???
YOU said YOU put me on ignore.
So...really you didn't??



Quote:
Originally Posted by road kill
The part you are not seeing is that the pot brought you into the culture where other drugs were common and easily accesible.

The "GATE" if you will.



RK

Originally Posted by dnf777
Well, I remember bowling alley restrooms and under the bleachers at highschool football games, kids smoking funny looking cigarettes. Maybe these "gates" should be banned as well?

Maybe you guys are both to the left of me on this, but I think big goobermint should stay out of my life, my house, and my garden. I don't need big brother to protect me from myself!

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that EVERY rock concert I've been to had "vendors" peddling various intoxicants. Maybe we should extend the "gate" logic and outlaw rock concerts and probably 75% of country western concerts, since associating with these crowds may lead to marijuana use, crack use, ultimately, the demise of all who attend.



get your storys straight, or is the "GATE" kinda cloudy!!!:rolleyes:


RK

Hoosier
10-07-2010, 08:16 PM
I had rotator cuff surgery a few weeks ago, and have been smoking pot since then. At first the Doc had me on oxycodone, and I believe that I was taking less of those then I would have without the weed, Now he has me on vicodin, and I just smoke a little weed instead of taking those. Hadn't smoked any for about ten years before surgery.

dnf777
10-07-2010, 09:02 PM
Really....then why did you quote me???
YOU said YOU put me on ignore.
So...really you didn't??

get your storys straight, or is the "GATE" kinda cloudy!!!:rolleyes:


RK

Sounds like somebody is smoking something.....and its not me!

I don't touch the stuff anymore. A good red wine or homebrew is my flavor now. Can't afford that kind of trouble at this stage.

The criminalization of MJ is silly. Someday we will look back on this chapter much as we do prohibition. I shudder at the billions of dollars spent on the war on drugs, that could have been MUCH better spent.

ducknwork
10-07-2010, 10:15 PM
I am only opposed to the legalization of harder drugs as they actually do harm. Pot does nothing to you, no withdrawls, dts or the sort. No one has ever died from it, unlike the others.

The defination of insanity is trying to teach people like Dknwork that there is not any harm over and over again. They will never believe the cold hard facts about pot. Even if it comes out in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Too much too lose on all parties for it to become legal. I would only like to see it legalized in all 50 states for people like me, Cancer Patients and the others that have terminal diseases.
Colon Cancer patient and survivor for 2 years

NEWS FLASH--We completely agree. Please point out when I have ever said that I am opposed to medical marijuana. Hint-You might be looking for a while.

road kill
10-08-2010, 05:43 AM
Sounds like somebody is smoking something.....and its not me!

I don't touch the stuff anymore. A good red wine or homebrew is my flavor now. Can't afford that kind of trouble at this stage.

The criminalization of MJ is silly. Someday we will look back on this chapter much as we do prohibition. I shudder at the billions of dollars spent on the war on drugs, that could have been MUCH better spent.
Let's see, first you claim you put me on ignore, but really you didn't.:rolleyes:

Then you accuse me of being an old drunk.

Then you quote me, but claim you were not talking to me.

Now I am a pothead.

You are special.



RK

ducknwork
10-08-2010, 06:24 AM
Let's see, first you claim you put me on ignore, but really you didn't.:rolleyes:

Then you accuse me of being an old drunk.

Then you quote me, but claim you were not talking to me.

Now I am a pothead.

You are special.



RK

Since you are on ignore, I'll quote this so Dave can see it...:D

Regarding the name calling, I wonder if he is this wishy washy when he is trying to decide between cheese puffs and corn chips because he's got the munchies?

road kill
10-08-2010, 06:26 AM
Since you are on ignore, I'll quote this so Dave can see it...:D

Regarding the name calling, I wonder if he is this wishy washy when he is trying to decide between cheese puffs and corn chips because he's got the munchies?

Balai Hai, Ripple or Boones Farm???:D


RK

Ken Bora
10-08-2010, 07:36 AM
Why is Marijuana not legal? It’s a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what’s not natural? 80 year old dudes with hardons! That’s not natural but we got pills for that. Were dedicating all our medical resources to keeping old guys erect. And putting people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt.


My favorite internet rant, by lazyboy. Click this, turn it up! My view on a few world topics right here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ)



.

YardleyLabs
10-08-2010, 07:47 AM
...


My favorite internet rant, by lazyboy. Click this, turn it up! My view on a few world topics right here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ)



.
That is great. Thank you for posting it.

BrianW
10-08-2010, 08:32 AM
Jmtc, Duck, I think you were drawing the wrong inference from this news story. That is, People (sellers) who have made the choice to engage in criminal acts are likely to make more bad choices & try to make the most of the opportunity while they have the chance. First, they were probably selling some of the smoke to folks who had faked or no prescriptions as well as their legal customers. Then, since they're already breaking the law doing "that", might as well go the next step. Where there is a market/demand, someone will try to fill that need and profit from it.
As RK alluded to, because pot is illegal in most cases, it's users are "in the community" with users of other illegal substances.
"Hey man, you know where to score some crystal/blow?"
"Nah, but maybe the guy I get weed from knows where ...."
and vice versa.

But selling meth & coke out of a place that's already going to be on a high profile police watch list? :rolleyes:.
"Hey man, are you stoned or just stupid?" In this case I think it was the latter.

Franco
10-08-2010, 08:43 AM
Why is Marijuana not legal? It’s a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what’s not natural? 80 year old dudes with hardons! That’s not natural but we got pills for that. Were dedicating all our medical resources to keeping old guys erect. And putting people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt.


My favorite internet rant, by lazyboy. Click this, turn it up! My view on a few world topics right here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ)



.


BRILLIANT!

dnf777
10-08-2010, 09:28 AM
Let's see, first you claim you put me on ignore, but really you didn't.:rolleyes:

Then you accuse me of being an old drunk.

Then you quote me, but claim you were not talking to me.

Now I am a pothead.

You are special.



RK


Sorry if I don't abide by your net-iquette!

But apparently you and duck have a reading disability. Let me say this again: You're far too entertaining to keep on ignore. And secondly, I merely stated I personally don't touch that stuff, and frankly, I don't give a rat's behind if you, or anyone else does or doesn't. If you think I lay awake at night wondering what RK's vices are, you're in for a big disappointment!

Think what you want, but please, stop putting your words into my posts.

And I have not called any names or insults here, so please don't run to Chris and tell on me! he's got bigger fish to fry.

And Duck, cheese puffs are far worse for you than a herbal smoke. If you get the munchies, I would suggest broccoli and cauli bites. ;)

dnf777
10-08-2010, 09:29 AM
Why is Marijuana not legal? It’s a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what’s not natural? 80 year old dudes with hardons! That’s not natural but we got pills for that. Were dedicating all our medical resources to keeping old guys erect. And putting people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt.

.

You got it all wrong, Ken. Its used to keep old men in nursing homes from rolling out of bed and hurting themselves. :D

ducknwork
10-08-2010, 11:09 AM
Jmtc, Duck, I think you were drawing the wrong inference from this news story. That is, People (sellers) who have made the choice to engage in criminal acts are likely to make more bad choices & try to make the most of the opportunity while they have the chance. First, they were probably selling some of the smoke to folks who had faked or no prescriptions as well as their legal customers. Then, since they're already breaking the law doing "that", might as well go the next step. Where there is a market/demand, someone will try to fill that need and profit from it.
As RK alluded to, because pot is illegal in most cases, it's users are "in the community" with users of other illegal substances.
"Hey man, you know where to score some crystal/blow?"
"Nah, but maybe the guy I get weed from knows where ...."
and vice versa.

But selling meth & coke out of a place that's already going to be on a high profile police watch list? :rolleyes:.
"Hey man, are you stoned or just stupid?" In this case I think it was the latter.

No, your post was my entire point exactly. You said it much better than I did.

ducknwork
10-08-2010, 11:11 AM
Sorry if I don't abide by your net-iquette!

But apparently you and duck have a reading disability. Let me say this again: You're far too entertaining to keep on ignore.No reading problem, but it's much too fun to screw with you and watch you get bent out of shape.:p;) And secondly, I merely stated I personally don't touch that stuff, and frankly, I don't give a rat's behind if you, or anyone else does or doesn't. If you think I lay awake at night wondering what RK's vices are, you're in for a big disappointment!

Think what you want, but please, stop putting your words into my posts.

And I have not called any names or insults here, so please don't run to Chris and tell on me! he's got bigger fish to fry.I feel pretty confident that if someone called you a drunk or a pothead, you'd have a meltdown. Don't give if you can't take.

And Duck, cheese puffs are far worse for you than a herbal smoke. If you get the munchies, I would suggest broccoli and cauli bites. ;)

So do you have a hard time deciding between broccoli or cauliflower?

dnf777
10-08-2010, 11:51 AM
So do you have a hard time deciding between broccoli or cauliflower?

I've been called far worse that a pothead here, Duck. Insulted far worse too. Don't really care.

No broc or cauli, I'm thinking mudbugs this time of year. I found a farm that will ship live, overnite, to PA. We got full fall colors, clear blue skies, and about 70 degrees.......you'll have to pardon me if I don't respond too quickly this w/e!

Leddyman
10-08-2010, 05:49 PM
Research backs up your assesment that it is not a Gateway drug. People that go on to other drugs would do so with or without pot. Research also shows that most pot users don't drink and those that do opt for wine over harder booze. (see mpp.org).

Just as the ban of booze financed organized crime in this coutry, the ban on pot has financed the drug cartels into muti-million dollar crime syndicates. Whereas, decriminalization would allow for taxing and substance control.

California will legalize it in November which will allow them to tax it. Long the #1 cash crop in Canada, the Canadians are debating legalization as well. Interesting is that the states with higher educational levels support decriminalization whereas the less educated states in the south still attempt to enforce their Draconian laws.

Lets don't forget the medicinal benefits that pot delivers to Cancer sufferers.

That was my point, and I believe I have experience on my side.

I had forgotten that I didn't drink when I smoked pot. I didn't start drinking until after I quit doing pot. Alcohol was almost as much trouble as the coke was.

I'm not saying there are no bad effects from pot. It destroys your ambition and drive. All you want to do is get stoned and watch a movie.

I'm just saying that even if there was no pot they would do those other drugs eventually.

I don't believe people should go to jail for pot. Simple. We spend way too much money over something that is less harmful to society than alcohol.

Here is a question for you. Pot smoking is rampant. Do you agree or disagree? With the prevalence of pot smoking how come we aren't hearing about all of the deaths caused by high people? Cause there aren't any to speak of?

Gerry Clinchy
10-08-2010, 06:20 PM
I'm not saying there are no bad effects from pot. It destroys your ambition and drive. All you want to do is get stoned and watch a movie.

Hmmm ... so it may actually damage some lives in a very subtle way?

Franco
10-08-2010, 06:46 PM
That was my point, and I believe I have experience on my side.

I had forgotten that I didn't drink when I smoked pot. I didn't start drinking until after I quit doing pot. Alcohol was almost as much trouble as the coke was.

I'm not saying there are no bad effects from pot. It destroys your ambition and drive. All you want to do is get stoned and watch a movie.

I'm just saying that even if there was no pot they would do those other drugs eventually.

I don't believe people should go to jail for pot. Simple. We spend way too much money over something that is less harmful to society than alcohol.

Here is a question for you. Pot smoking is rampant. Do you agree or disagree? With the prevalence of pot smoking how come we aren't hearing about all of the deaths caused by high people? Cause there aren't any to speak of?

First, let me say how much I appriciate the honesty of your post.

I agree that it is rampant. I think the reason it is so popular is that it is a better buzz than booze, without the side effects. To answer your second question, we don't hear or read about it because pot smokers do so to relax or as a physical pain killer. Therefore they arn't out driving dad's pickup truck at 80mph's or getting into fights/trouble. The are other uses/benefits I will get into in a bit. That is what is so stupid about the current law. To treat pot like cocaine or any like drugs makes absolutley no sense!

Just like teas, pots grown under controlled envirns can offer different medicinal qualities. In my younger days, I founded it hard to sleep at night because of my busy mind. So, I started smoking what I call, Sleepytime. Problem was when I didn't have any to smoke at bedtime, I couldn't fall asleep! There are blends engineered for; pain, sleep, appetite stimulants, and laughing. Which we all know how bad laughing is.

sometimes a great notion
10-08-2010, 06:48 PM
I dont have a problem with drive and ambition while smoking. I work more than 50 hours a week not including the weekends.

Besides thaat if you were a true pot smoker, sativa dominant plants create an uplifting high and energy, while your indica strains are more of a body high and can put you down right quick.

charly_t
10-08-2010, 08:20 PM
I have read all this thread very carefully. One of my thoughts is that drugs ( pot, meth etc.) and booze have different effects on different people just like prescription drugs do. I have had family members whoes lives have been ruined by some of this. We native Americans seem to have a big problem with these things. Not just my family either.........we sat through foster parenting classes with other people of our Oklahoma tribes and one young woman ( not my tribe, plains Indian if I remember correctly ) told of how drugs had made a shambles of her life. She and her current ( native American husband ) were living a "clean " life and ready to help children who came from homes who had problems ( including bad drugs ). You all can sit and tell how they should be legalized all you want but they will ruin some people. Yep, make them legal and watch what happens. True it will cure some problems with jails etc. but at the cost of lives in some cases........just like booze has. I can see using the mj for meds in some cases though.

Leddyman
10-08-2010, 08:34 PM
I have read all this thread very carefully. One of my thoughts is that drugs ( pot, meth etc.) and booze have different effects on different people just like prescription drugs do. I have had family members whoes lives have been ruined by some of this. We native Americans seem to have a big problem with these things. Not just my family either.........we sat through foster parenting classes with other people of our Oklahoma tribes and one young woman ( not my tribe, plains Indian if I remember correctly ) told of how drugs had made a shambles of her life. She and her current ( native American husband ) were living a "clean " life and ready to help children who came from homes who had problems ( including bad drugs ). You all can sit and tell how they should be legalized all you want but they will ruin some people. Yep, make them legal and watch what happens. True it will cure some problems with jails etc. but at the cost of lives in some cases........just like booze has. I can see using the mj for meds in some cases though.

I am sorry about your experience. Here's a question. Which lives is it not going to ruin because it is illegal? I'll tell you whose it will ruin. the guy who goes to jail for having an OZ in his house. His life is ruined. The people you are talking about can get it anyway. The fact that it was illegal didn't save anybody. If we spent the money on drug education that we are spending fighting a loosing battle on criminalizing it we might make some progress. It worked on smoking cigarettes. Those numbers are way down.

charly_t
10-08-2010, 10:38 PM
I get what all of you are saying, Leddy, but where do we stop. Do we make all the drugs ( Mary Jane, coke, meth, heroin ) all legal ? If not we are still going to have someone pedaling drugs outside the law. I'm all for education.
just think that we still have some things to consider.

dnf777
10-09-2010, 05:34 AM
I get what all of you are saying, Leddy, but where do we stop. Do we make all the drugs ( Mary Jane, coke, meth, heroin ) all legal ? If not we are still going to have someone pedaling drugs outside the law. I'm all for education.
just think that we still have some things to consider.

The addictive characteristics of a drug should be the deciding factor. Nicotine, alcohol, amphetamines, all have physiologic addictions. Marijuana does not. There are not physical withdrawals, and people do not tend to resort to violent acts to obtain their next fix, like meth, crack, and heroin users will.

I agree with Leddy. Money would be far more effectively used in education, rather than enforcement. I think this holds true even for the addictive drugs, as Leddy points out. I can't really say I support legalizing the bad ones though, but mj seems silly to me. Especially in light of the fact alcohol is legal.

scott furbeck
10-09-2010, 09:26 AM
[QUOTE=Ken Bora;687346][FONT=Georgia][SIZE=4]Why is Marijuana not legal? It’s a natural plant that grows in the dirt.

So does tobacco, cocaine and the opium poppy....... Because something grows in the dirt doesn't mean it's safe.

sometimes a great notion
10-09-2010, 10:11 AM
But opium and cocaine take processing to make what it is today. MJ takes no processing and within a couple weeks of harvesting, trimming and curing in jars, you have a product that is natural.

You can grow, organically, or with synthetic hormones to boost levels of thc.

You can grow in dirt or in hydro.

I grow hydro as it is the fastest and most economical way to grow. There is very little room for error in hydro, where dirt is very forgiving.

A PHD in chemistry is almost a requirement in growing properly. You have to know your plants.

Julie R.
10-09-2010, 10:28 AM
Hmmm ... so it may actually damage some lives in a very subtle way?

Quite possibly, but then think of the damage done by welfare, entitlement programs and most certainly, alcohol and tobacco. If people want to be lazy, horny and stupid, they can and will quite frequently without smoking weed.

charly_t
10-09-2010, 10:42 AM
Quite possibly, but then think of the damage done by welfare, entitlement programs and most certainly, alcohol and tobacco. If people want to be lazy, horny and stupid, they can and will quite frequently without smoking weed.

All very, very true but people who have been smoking mj often lack the will to get up and do the things that need to be done......like care for children. Some of them are even giving it to the children to help them relax !!!!! If we are going to change the law we need to have the facts about mj which a lot of the people who want it made legal are either ignorant of (different strains of plants maybe ) or don't care. Regulation of mj will be a nightmare just because there are differences in the plants.

depittydawg
10-09-2010, 11:23 AM
All very, very true but people who have been smoking mj often lack the will to get up and do the things that need to be done......like care for children. Some of them are even giving it to the children to help them relax !!!!! If we are going to change the law we need to have the facts about mj which a lot of the people who want it made legal are either ignorant of (different strains of plants maybe ) or don't care. Regulation of mj will be a nightmare just because there are differences in the plants.

Can't say I agree with this. Legalization is very simple. It's legal to buy it. Doesn't mean it's legal to grow it. But that could be included. I can buy or make my own beer, which I do. I can buy and make alcoholic beverages with varying degrees of alcohol content. But I can only buy hard liquor. Doesn't seem to be much of a nightmare. Why would POT be any different.
As to your claim that people give it to their children to calm them down. I've never heard of anyone doing this. Although, in our society that dopes up kids with medications to sedate their active minds for "education" purposes, it would not surprise me that some fools have substituted POT for the more expensive and prescribed treatments.

Ken Bora
10-09-2010, 09:27 PM
Why is Marijuana not legal? It’s a natural plant that grows in the dirt.


So does tobacco, cocaine and the opium poppy....... Because something grows in the dirt doesn't mean it's safe.


But opium and cocaine take processing to make what it is today. MJ takes no processing .

Exactly!!!!!!!
I also used to Brew, a lot. It was a couple of hobbies before dogs. Brewing like dogs can be as simple or complicated as you want to make it. It got to the point I grew my own hops here in the yard I now use for dog obedience. Competed and received ribbons for my efforts just like dogs. We used to have the saying “Beer is proof that God wanted us to be happy”. Because simple beer can happen naturally. Have some rainwater fall on a basket of grains harvested but left outside. Have some wind carry some yeast in and you get the same open fermentation the southerners use in the corn mash before running and re-running through the still.
From the early naturally occurring beers and meads, to the natives happily munching the coca leaves in the rainforest to the aforementioned “Killer Weed”. It is as it was, made by God. It is only when we, the hand of man tries to be better than God and take it further or make it purer or easier or more better that it gets all flocked up. Then we end up with the cocaine and heroin and oxcicontins and wash it down with the Jack Daniels. I say regulate and control anything and everything made by the hand of man. But let the things made by the hand of God be free for all.

And that is what I think about that!




.

dnf777
10-09-2010, 09:52 PM
All very, very true but people who have been smoking mj often lack the will to get up and do the things that need to be done......like care for children. .

Based on what info? If not for marijuana, all these dead-beats would be CEOs of their own companies?

People are who they are. There's go-getters and dead-beats. Period.

Hoosier
10-09-2010, 10:05 PM
I actually like to stay busy when I smoke.

charly_t
10-10-2010, 12:14 AM
Based on what info?

People are who they are. There's go-getters and dead-beats. Period.



In answer to your first question...........family members. World of difference in their attitude etc. when smoking mj and when not smoking it.

In answer to your last statement classes for we family members who were not smoking mj. Got aquainted with a lot of people at those classes. Learned about others' family members also. It is not as simple as a lot of you think it is.
Most of their family members were like mine.........good workers with a good work ethic till they started smoking weed.

And for all of you who think natural is okay...........rattlesnakes are natural also.

Eve and the apple regards to you for those who believe the Bible.

sometimes a great notion
10-10-2010, 05:07 AM
There are millions of people out there everyday smoking mj and still hold down jobs, families and do other noteworthy things like creating FaceBook. They are forced to the go underground and cant talk about it or do some in public because of the fear of being arrested.
Those are draconian laws that need to be changed!!!

Maybe some of the posters on here need to pull their heads out and acutally do some research on mj.

I have logged litterally probably 500 hours just on mj alone. So bring it on and I will fight every illogical reason about why mj should be illegal or legal.

I am an advocate for medical purposes only, but if you do it recreationally go for it. I cant stop you and wont beat my head up against a wall to fight you.

BrianW
10-10-2010, 06:19 AM
1. In answer to your first question...........family members. World of difference in their attitude etc. when smoking mj and when not smoking it.

2. And for all of you who think natural is okay...........rattlesnakes are natural also.

3. Eve and the apple regards to you for those who believe the Bible.

1. As you posted earlier and has been often noted, "Natives" seem to have more problems with certain mind altering substances than some other peoples. Perhaps there is some physical/genetic perdisposition that will be found. But what about the use of peyote, mushrooms, mescal etc. that (I believe) were brought to attention by the southwest peoples. To say there's no place for things like that in your culture seems to ignore the past that brought you to this place.

Re "Eve & the apple" - I think the "Great Gardener in the Sky" gave us these gifts of the natural world and the knowledge of them (and many others) to be part of our lives. However, it's up to us to have the wisdom to know what/where/when/why it's appropriate and that includes the who also.

As far as #2 - I've never smoked a rattlesnake other than to eat it. But it was quite good tasting and I'm still here. :confused:
(Part of that "appropriate use" thing).;)
If you're trying to makes points like that about the use of "natural", I suggest you stick to realistic things like "death angel" mushrooms, hemlock and the like. Don't ruin your arguments with nonsense. :rolleyes:

dnf777
10-10-2010, 06:33 AM
In answer to your first question...........family members. World of difference in their attitude etc. when smoking mj and when not smoking it.

In answer to your last statement classes for we family members who were not smoking mj. Got aquainted with a lot of people at those classes. Learned about others' family members also. It is not as simple as a lot of you think it is.
Most of their family members were like mine.........good workers with a good work ethic till they started smoking weed.

And for all of you who think natural is okay...........rattlesnakes are natural also.

Eve and the apple regards to you for those who believe the Bible.

Although I disagree, I can certainly respect your opinion on that. If it hurt your family, then you have every right to ban its use IN YOUR FAMILY.

Many other families have different stories to tell. Two quick examples are Keith Whitley and Willie Nelson. One is dead, one is enjoying a wonderful, fulfilled life, surrounded by his friends and family, doing what he enjoys.

Alcohol has ruined FAR FAR FAR more lives and families than MJ ever will. EtOH incites bravado (I can drive like Dale Earnhardt), jealousy (you'll never cheat on me again, B!#ch!), anger (who do you think YOU are, Bub!?) and have cost countless lives in the above situations.

Someone sitting at home with a few friends rolling their own watching South Park does not affect or hurt me in any way. 70,000 crazed football fans boozing it up on tailgates then hitting the road DOES.

If your opposition to MJ is family and societal ills.....I strongly encourage you to take up the Prohibition of alcohol. Your efforts will reap far greater rewards.

Steve Shaver
10-10-2010, 08:15 AM
just a hypothetical:

who would you rather be seated with at a wedding reception- a guy who smoked a joint on the way to the dinner from the church or a mean drunk pounding down the Jack Daniels?-Paul




My first time posting here. This is a subject that I consider myself an expert at.
First to address Pauls quote. I'd bet you would never know if the guy sitting next to you smoked a joint on the way over.
With that saidI love pot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would still smoke it today if it werent for drug testing at work. That totally sucks. The worst part is I could smoke a joint today while out in the duck blind watching the sunrise then get drug tested at work three weeks from now and lose my job I've had for 25 years. What I do away from work on my own time today has nothing to do with my work three weeks from now and is none of their business!!!!!!! Now if they could come up with a test (and I believe they CAN do this) that shows I am actually under the influence at work I'd be all for it.
I smoked pot all day every day for 16 years with no adverse side effects or problems at all. Also had no problem with withdrawls or anything like that when quitting cold turkey when drug testing came to the work place. I also had very severe asthma when I was younger. A little draw on the ol refer would open up and relax my chest as well as any prescribed inhaler the doctored ordered.
People that think pot is evil and a gateway drug are people that watched movies like Refer Madness and actually know nothing about it. My gateway to pot was my brother, maybe if he would have been euthanized at birth I would not have been introduced to that evil weed.
I dont care if pot is legalized, actually I'd probably rather not, just leave me alone in my own home and on my own time!!!!!!!

zoomngoldens
10-10-2010, 09:44 AM
Colorado has a very active MMJ program and something like 60,000 licenses have now been issued. Most have been issued for chronic pain - there are jokes that there has been a sudden epidemic of chronic pain among 18-40 year olds in CO ;). There are MMJ shops in strip malls in every city. Some people have expressed concern about thefts at the shops, but there hasn't been a sudden increase in violence with all these licenses being issued. I think a lot of people just want a legal way to buy/grow/possess their weed.

Deb Anderson

sometimes a great notion
10-10-2010, 10:11 AM
But I guess that I am trying to say about the whole issue is CHOICES. I choose to do what I do because I am a 45 year adult. I am of legal age to make informed decisons for myself.
I choose to get high after work because it alleviates the stress and the depression that I have over whether I AM GOING TO LIVE OR DIE.

I am a stage 4 colon cancer fighting for my life, not knowing when the end is coming. I choose not to have anymore chemotherapy because of the intense vomiting an nausea and every other symptom that comes with it.

I have been going on 2 years, hoping I make it 2 more years or 20 more years. Right now, I am holding my own and the latest CT scan only shows cells in my lungs. Two years ago when I had symptoms it was in 26 of 30 lymph nodes that they took out of my colon. It had spread to my liver and have had two different liver resections.

I get my CEA levels checked every 2 weeks. It is showing steady and no sharp increase or decrease. I reached a milestone on Thursday and I dont have to go back for another month. This is showing that my body is fighting back`.

With proper diet and the oral chemotherapy that I take is working.

But no matter what happens, I can not stop people from making bad choices.
People are going to do what they want to do, that is our nature.
I would rather hang out with 20 stoners, than 1 drunk.

scott furbeck
10-10-2010, 10:13 AM
[QUOTE=sometimes a great notion;687890]But opium and cocaine take processing to make what it is today. MJ takes no processing and within a couple weeks of harvesting, trimming and curing in jars, you have a product that is natural.

Nope, the natural thing is hogwash. Frosted Sorghum has cyanide in it, Chrysanthemums make Pyrthrin which is toxic. Rotenone, Foxglove, Buckeyes.. the list goes on (no processing needed in any of those things). It has nothing to do with processing. Think about it.. plants cannot move to get away from their predators so they make some pretty nasty secondary chemistry to survive.

Also current varieties of MJ have been so selected by man for higher THC content that they are far different than the varieties of a decade or two ago. There is nothing natural about that.

Think about it, Natural means absolutely nothing.

Ken Bora
10-10-2010, 10:21 AM
......Nope, the natural thing is hogwash. Frosted Sorghum has cyanide in it, Chrysanthemums make Pyrthrin which is toxic. Rotenone, Foxglove, Buckeyes.. the list goes on (no processing needed in any of those things). It has nothing to do with processing. Think about it.. plants cannot move to get away from their predators so they make some pretty nasty secondary chemistry to survive......


Those are some mighty nasty plants you just listed right there.
Straight up killer weeds.
Put any of them in a bag and walk down the street, will you go to jail?????




.

scott furbeck
10-10-2010, 10:29 AM
Nope, but they could kill you all the same... If your dog ate them, he would be really sick. I was addressing the comment "if it's natural it's safe" concept. Not the legality of any substance.

For folks with serious health problems, I can understand the use of MJ. However so far, the best I can tell from the arguements here is that being a stoner is better than being a drunk. I prefer to be neither.

Ken Bora
10-10-2010, 10:50 AM
Nope, but they could kill you all the same... If your dog ate them, he would be really sick. I was addressing the comment "if it's natural it's safe" concept. Not the legality of any substance.....

And the point I was after is the percentage of the taxes that you and I pay that go solely to the detection, apprehension, prosecution, dentition and follow up for carrying a bush that grows in the dirt. Hard earned monies that could build bridges and fix roads and pay for presidential vacations all going up in smoke.



.

Hoosier
10-10-2010, 11:27 AM
Another thing I have noticed since I started smoking is that I haven't had acid reflux. The last couple of years I have been on medication for a pituitary tumor and have had acid reflux since I started taking it. Once I started smoking again that went away immediately. I believe that could lesson my risk of developing esophageal cancer.

scott furbeck
10-10-2010, 11:33 AM
[QUOTE=Ken Bora;688212]And the point I was after is the percentage of the taxes that you and I pay that go solely to the detection, apprehension, prosecution, dentition and follow up for carrying a bush that grows in the dirt. Hard earned monies that could build bridges and fix roads and pay for presidential vacations all going up in smoke.


Fair enough, It's a complex issue. I doesn't matter if it was a bush that grows in the ground or a pill to me, mind altering substances are just that.

I'm not so sure if the decriminalization of MJ would actually free up any resources... It would appear so on the surface, but as long as congress is in session anything can happen. It will be interesting to see how things work out in California. I really do hope things do get better and we could use the money for productive things.

It's a nice sunny day out here, I need to play with the kids and dog... have a good day Ken. Do you have any good apple recipes and no, I don't need any special additives:). I'm going to pick up a bushel this afternnon.

charly_t
10-10-2010, 11:37 AM
1. As you posted earlier and has been often noted, "Natives" seem to have more problems with certain mind altering substances than some other peoples. Perhaps there is some physical/genetic perdisposition that will be found. But what about the use of peyote, mushrooms, mescal etc. that (I believe) were brought to attention by the southwest peoples. To say there's no place for things like that in your culture seems to ignore the past that brought you to this place.

Re "Eve & the apple" - I think the "Great Gardener in the Sky" gave us these gifts of the natural world and the knowledge of them (and many others) to be part of our lives. However, it's up to us to have the wisdom to know what/where/when/why it's appropriate and that includes the who also.

As far as #2 - I've never smoked a rattlesnake other than to eat it. But it was quite good tasting and I'm still here. :confused:
(Part of that "appropriate use" thing).;)
If you're trying to makes points like that about the use of "natural", I suggest you stick to realistic things like "death angel" mushrooms, hemlock and the like. Don't ruin your arguments with nonsense. :rolleyes:

Thank you very much for your critique of my post ! I'm not likely to follow it but thank you anyway. I seldom resort to smilies. You can read and take things any way you want that I post.

The rattlesnake mention was not making a point it was intended as a joke. I do not take everything in life as serious but I do contend that many drugs both legal and none legal are a danger. As to other tribes using mushrooms etc. I don't think it's a wise thing to do ( not my "culture, thank you ). My family moved beyond that ( if they ever used it ). To say that all Native Americans had the same culture is not correct. Each tribe had their own culture. I believe that Native Americans were using plants in many ways when the palefaces arrived. I checked a book out of the library one time that listed many of them ( a few hundred if I remember correctly ). Gasp.....some were even used correctly to treat ills.

As for any kind "fire water" I agree with the poster who said I should fight it ...... I do.

P.S. That book was only listing those plants used for medicine if I remember correctly.

sometimes a great notion
10-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Yes, scott those are dangerous. But you are comparing apples to oranges. We may have selected varieties of mj to enhance them, but still the same thing in general. We have selectedly bred certain dogs to do certain things for function, so have the breeders of mj. We have selectively chosen to improve the functions of cars, planes, computers or whatever.

I have chosen to smoke weed, vaporize weed, or eat it to get my desired effect.
Everything living thing, in water, dirt, on land has a function and use. We may not have found a use for everything but it is trial and error.

Taxol comes from Hemlock and is deadly to humans, but processed in the right way contains in it dna and certain molecules to help cure cancer.

dnf777
10-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Yes, scott those are dangerous. But you are comparing apples to oranges. We may have selected varieties of mj to enhance them, but still the same thing in general. We have selectedly bred certain dogs to do certain things for function, so have the breeders of mj. We have selectively chosen to improve the functions of cars, planes, computers or whatever.

I have chosen to smoke weed, vaporize weed, or eat it to get my desired effect.
Everything living thing, in water, dirt, on land has a function and use. We may not have found a use for everything but it is trial and error.

Taxol comes from Hemlock and is deadly to humans, but processed in the right way contains in it dna and certain molecules to help cure cancer.

And botulinum has been regarded as a deadly toxin for years.....who knew it could be used to give Joan Rivers a beautiful new smile, and smooth wrinkles from our brows?

scott furbeck
10-10-2010, 03:03 PM
Yes, scott those are dangerous. But you are comparing apples to oranges. We may have selected varieties of mj to enhance them, but still the same thing in general. We have selectedly bred certain dogs to do certain things for function, so have the breeders of mj. We have selectively chosen to improve the functions of cars, planes, computers or whatever.

I have chosen to smoke weed, vaporize weed, or eat it to get my desired effect.
Everything living thing, in water, dirt, on land has a function and use. We may not have found a use for everything but it is trial and error.

Taxol comes from Hemlock and is deadly to humans, but processed in the right way contains in it dna and certain molecules to help cure cancer.


My point was (and still is) Just because something is "Natural" doesn't make it safe. That's all, nothing more or less. As a society we have been brainwashed into believing the terms natural and organic are always safer and better for us. It's a great piece of marketing, but it's not true.

Steve Shaver
10-10-2010, 03:10 PM
But I guess that I am trying to say about the whole issue is CHOICES. I choose to do what I do because I am a 45 year adult. I am of legal age to make informed decisons for myself.
I choose to get high after work because it alleviates the stress and the depression that I have over whether I AM GOING TO LIVE OR DIE.

I am a stage 4 colon cancer fighting for my life, not knowing when the end is coming. I choose not to have anymore chemotherapy because of the intense vomiting an nausea and every other symptom that comes with it.

I have been going on 2 years, hoping I make it 2 more years or 20 more years. Right now, I am holding my own and the latest CT scan only shows cells in my lungs. Two years ago when I had symptoms it was in 26 of 30 lymph nodes that they took out of my colon. It had spread to my liver and have had two different liver resections.

I get my CEA levels checked every 2 weeks. It is showing steady and no sharp increase or decrease. I reached a milestone on Thursday and I dont have to go back for another month. This is showing that my body is fighting back`.

With proper diet and the oral chemotherapy that I take is working.

But no matter what happens, I can not stop people from making bad choices.
People are going to do what they want to do, that is our nature.
I would rather hang out with 20 stoners, than 1 drunk.






Hang in there buddy! Keep on fightin!

Steve Shaver
10-10-2010, 03:14 PM
My point was (and still is) Just because something is "Natural" doesn't make it safe. That's all, nothing more or less. As a society we have been brainwashed into believing the terms natural and organic are always safer and better for us. It's a great piece of marketing, but it's not true.




Ok natural doesnt make it safe, so what?:rolleyes: I did an indepth study on it for 16 years and I'm here to tell ya that MJ is safe:cool:

scott furbeck
10-10-2010, 03:28 PM
People said similar things about tobacco years ago, while I don't think that MJ is near as harmful as tobacco, it isn't without risk.

charly_t
10-10-2010, 04:20 PM
But I guess that I am trying to say about the whole issue is CHOICES. I choose to do what I do because I am a 45 year adult. I am of legal age to make informed decisons for myself.
I choose to get high after work because it alleviates the stress and the depression that I have over whether I AM GOING TO LIVE OR DIE.

I am a stage 4 colon cancer fighting for my life, not knowing when the end is coming. I choose not to have anymore chemotherapy because of the intense vomiting an nausea and every other symptom that comes with it.

I have been going on 2 years, hoping I make it 2 more years or 20 more years. Right now, I am holding my own and the latest CT scan only shows cells in my lungs. Two years ago when I had symptoms it was in 26 of 30 lymph nodes that they took out of my colon. It had spread to my liver and have had two different liver resections.

I get my CEA levels checked every 2 weeks. It is showing steady and no sharp increase or decrease. I reached a milestone on Thursday and I dont have to go back for another month. This is showing that my body is fighting back`.

With proper diet and the oral chemotherapy that I take is working.

But no matter what happens, I can not stop people from making bad choices.
People are going to do what they want to do, that is our nature.
I would rather hang out with 20 stoners, than 1 drunk.

I hope that you win this war. My Mother had colon cancer back in the 1980's.
Things are very different now thank God. And I would for sure vote for you to have mj or anything else that would help you.

dnf777
10-10-2010, 04:45 PM
My point was (and still is) Just because something is "Natural" doesn't make it safe. That's all, nothing more or less. As a society we have been brainwashed into believing the terms natural and organic are always safer and better for us. It's a great piece of marketing, but it's not true.

Amen to that. And we've been brainwashed into thinking that we need to rid our world and homes of all "germs". You NEED something that "kills 99% of germs and viruses", else you're doomed to being sick!

I wonder if the emergence of MRSA lately has anything to do with the tons of antibiotics that are routinely fed to livestock, and all the germicidal cleaners we've been told we need to buy?

I think we're finally beginning to wake up in medicine, and realize that every little sniffle, ear ache, and sinusitus does not need antibiotics. Most will get better on their own, without the side effects and biologic effects of drugs. And the risk and cause of rheumatic heart disease has been grossly misjudged.

sometimes a great notion
10-10-2010, 06:45 PM
I guess I am wondering why big pharma is so opposed to legalizing besides the obvious of money. They can't patent a plant so that is reason also, but I am really wondering why big pharma continues to push Marinol on patients that does not work and it is so expensive.

So my real question is, it must have some compound in it that is impossible to duplicate synthetically? I know the answer to it, and that is why they are so threatened by it. It does have medicinal value and they know it but they keep it the dark from us.

charly_t
10-10-2010, 07:21 PM
I guess I am wondering why big pharma is so opposed to legalizing besides the obvious of money. They can't patent a plant so that is reason also, but I am really wondering why big pharma continues to push Marinol on patients that does not work and it is so expensive.

So my real question is, it must have some compound in it that is impossible to duplicate synthetically? I know the answer to it, and that is why they are so threatened by it. It does have medicinal value and they know it but they keep it the dark from us.

Someone sent some info to me last week about asparagus being helpfull in fighting cancer. "Blend one can of asparagus and keep in the fridge and eat 4 tablespoons twice a day". Not saying that it works as I don't know and have not looked on the net for info. When Mother was sick it was grapes that were supposed to help. Much later I took part in the STAR study ( 2 breast cancer meds being studied for comparison ). At least one of those two drugs could increase colon etc. cancer. I hope that this study will help some of my family down the road since we have a history on both sides of the family with breast cancers.

scott furbeck
10-10-2010, 08:54 PM
[QUOTE=sometimes a great notion;688356]I guess I am wondering why big pharma is so opposed to legalizing besides the obvious of money. They can't patent a plant ....

Oh yes you can patent a plant. I just filled out 4 patent applications for corn lines in the last year. In addition to plant patents, there are things called PVP's and utility patents that help protect your work. The hard thing to prove would be that your MJ plant was novel. You would have to prove where you got the seed and what you did to it to make the variety. I would think that the medical MJ people have already done some of that work, I'm thinking most basement grow-rooms don't keep a lot of paperwork, reciepts or documention.

Pharma has tried their hand in the plant business on several occasions, it's not as profitable as drugs and most have gotten out or spun off their ag divisions.

depittydawg
10-10-2010, 10:23 PM
I guess I am wondering why big pharma is so opposed to legalizing besides the obvious of money. They can't patent a plant so that is reason also, but I am really wondering why big pharma continues to push Marinol on patients that does not work and it is so expensive.

So my real question is, it must have some compound in it that is impossible to duplicate synthetically? I know the answer to it, and that is why they are so threatened by it. It does have medicinal value and they know it but they keep it the dark from us.

Plants can definatly be patented. Check out some of the things Monsanto is doing.

sometimes a great notion
10-11-2010, 04:26 AM
I dont trust monsanto, and I know about the genetics they do and forcing farmers into contracts to make them feed their products to their animals by their feed. I just don't think you can patent a plant that grows naturally in the wild therein lies the problem.

sometimes a great notion
10-11-2010, 06:10 AM
Regardless of what a lot of people say, there is real no factual truth that MJ is a gateway to other drugs. It comes down to choice. If a person that is not satisfied with just smoking pot and wants to elevate their satisfaction level that is a character issue. Why not be satisfied with what you have and not go for anything harder. It is the element of man to want more and more or want what you dont have.

scott furbeck
10-11-2010, 04:55 PM
Sometimes a great notion said :....I dont trust monsanto, and I know about the genetics they do and forcing farmers into contracts to make them feed their products to their animals by their feed

What genetics do you not like and why ? Just curious. I don't work for them ... Also please find me some information that shows that Monsanto forces farmers to feed their products (or any product for that matter). I think you have been misinformed. I don't like Monsanto, and I work for a competitor, but what you say is wrong.

dnf777
10-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Sometimes a great notion said :....I dont trust monsanto, and I know about the genetics they do and forcing farmers into contracts to make them feed their products to their animals by their feed

What genetics do you not like and why ? Just curious. I don't work for them ... Also please find me some information that shows that Monsanto forces farmers to feed their products (or any product for that matter). I think you have been misinformed. I don't like Monsanto, and I work for a competitor, but what you say is wrong.

Scott,
The agri-corps have engineered seeds to produce more bountiful crops, and like drug dealers, give them away cheap to get many farmers hooked. If the farms around you produce more, you must also plant higher yield crops to stay competitive. So far, I have no problem with that. The problem is that not only is the corn a sterile hybrid, but now they have it to where it will have one generation of progeny, which is in turn sterile. This eventually dilutes the wild-type plants into sterile hybrids, and now the farms are captive to the patented seeds.

Monsanto, Archer-Dan-Midland, and ConAgra control over 90% of US corn production and processing. Unless you are a true outlier, not a day goes by that part of your paycheck, in some form or fashion, does not go to one of those three corporations.

scott furbeck
10-11-2010, 05:18 PM
Well dnf: Yes Monsanto owns a patent on a "terminator" gene sequence. So they have the technology make their own corn seed sterile . It has not been approved by the govenment and has never seen the light of a commercial field. Many companies hold patents on all sorts of genes and corn plants. That's how the business works. Just because you hold a patent doesn't mean you are producing the product.

This technology in a hybrid crop means nothing anyway, you cannot save seed from any hybrid corn produced in the last 70 years. It is 100% hetrozygous in the F1 Hybrid. Saving seed would create a population, not a hybrid where all plants are identical to eachother. It would yield less than half what the original hybrid yielded.

By law, you cannot save a RR soybean seed (a self pollinated crop) and plant it for seed. You sign a legal agreement when you purchase the seed. It is explained very well. The first RR patent comes off in a couple years, then things may change.

Also GMO seed are the most expensive seed on the market. 10 years ago conventional corn seed sold for about 80bucks a bag. It still is today. Current Triple-Stacked Corn Hybrids go for about 250.00 for the same size bag. They do not give the stuff away like "drug dealers". Technology in ag has changed, now instead of spending your money spraying a crop multiple times, the money is now spent on the seed. The biggest change in prices in the last few years has been in fuel and fertilizer.

Perhaps this should be another thread, but I'll let this one die here. I just realized that I'm not going to change anybodies mind.

dnf777
10-11-2010, 06:55 PM
Well dnf: Yes Monsanto owns a patent on a "terminator" gene sequence. So they have the technology make their own corn seed sterile . It has not been approved by the govenment and has never seen the light of a commercial field. Many companies hold patents on all sorts of genes and corn plants. That's how the business works. Just because you hold a patent doesn't mean you are producing the product.

This technology in a hybrid crop means nothing anyway, you cannot save seed from any hybrid corn produced in the last 70 years. It is 100% hetrozygous in the F1 Hybrid. Saving seed would create a population, not a hybrid where all plants are identical to eachother. It would yield less than half what the original hybrid yielded.

By law, you cannot save a RR soybean seed (a self pollinated crop) and plant it for seed. You sign a legal agreement when you purchase the seed. It is explained very well. The first RR patent comes off in a couple years, then things may change.

Also GMO seed are the most expensive seed on the market. 10 years ago conventional corn seed sold for about 80bucks a bag. It still is today. Current Triple-Stacked Corn Hybrids go for about 250.00 for the same size bag. They do not give the stuff away like "drug dealers". Technology in ag has changed, now instead of spending your money spraying a crop multiple times, the money is now spent on the seed. The biggest change in prices in the last few years has been in fuel and fertilizer.

Perhaps this should be another thread, but I'll let this one die here. I just realized that I'm not going to change anybodies mind.

What I'm referring to happened in south America, where our laws don't apply.
As you mentioned, the seeds and technology do exist, and are being implemented in other countries. Its just a matter of time before the food industry lobbyists get it legalized here.

Crop production has increased exponentially in our lifetime, and will probably continue to do so. Nothing is free however, and the price for ultra-high-yield crops is often nutrition or environmental. The amount of iron in commercially grown apples is something like 20% of apples from the WWII era, when records of such things began.

Julie R.
10-11-2010, 08:03 PM
As you mentioned, the seeds and technology do exist, and are being implemented in other countries. Its just a matter of time before the food industry lobbyists get it legalized here.

Crop production has increased exponentially in our lifetime, and will probably continue to do so. Nothing is free however, and the price for ultra-high-yield crops is often nutrition or environmental. The amount of iron in commercially grown apples is something like 20% of apples from the WWII era, when records of such things began.

Hmmm, makes you wonder if Big Ag would get into pot production and weed seed engineering/patents. Just to tie this all together.

While I do feel for families like Charly's with family members whose lives were made worse because of weed abuse, I still tend to think abusers are in the minority compared to alchohol abusers. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, weed smokers certainly have no monopoly on being trifling, horny and stupid. Some people are like that whether or not they abuse a legal or illegal substance. Unfortunately, I think it's been abundantly and expensively proven you can't legislate common sense and personal/familial responsibility. The very bottom rung of society is made up largely of those who've abdicated decision-making to the government.

Interestingly, the subject of legalizing weed has been on the news here in the D.C. area extensively, since four states are putting it to a vote this fall: Calif., one of the Dakotas, Oregon and Arizona. The desperate need for infusions of cash is cited as the main reason for the push to legalize what's already their largest cash crop. D.C. recently legalized weed for medicinal purposes, and it's legal in about a dozen other states as well.

Franco
10-11-2010, 08:08 PM
Hmmm, makes you wonder if Big Ag would get into pot production and weed seed engineering/patents. Just to tie this all together.

While I do feel for families like Charly's with family members whose lives were made worse because of weed abuse, I still tend to think abusers are in the minority compared to alchohol abusers. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, weed smokers certainly have no monopoly on being trifling, horny and stupid. Some people are like that whether or not they abuse a legal or illegal substance. Unfortunately, I think it's been abundantly and expensively proven you can't legislate common sense and personal/familial responsibility. The very bottom rung of society is made up largely of those who've abdicated decision-making to the government.

Interestingly, the subject of legalizing weed has been on the news here in the D.C. area extensively, since four states are putting it to a vote this fall: Calif., one of the Dakotas, Oregon and Arizona. The desperate need for infusions of cash is cited as the main reason for the push to legalize what's already their largest cash crop. D.C. recently legalized weed for medicinal purposes, and it's legal in about a dozen other states as well.

California is voting for Legalization. The other dozen states are still dealing with Decriminalization. And, some states want to make the MJ laws even tougher!:D

Julie R.
10-11-2010, 08:25 PM
The other dozen states are still dealing with Decriminalization.

HAHAHA apparently decriminalization's not a big concern in D.C.

Franco
10-12-2010, 02:34 PM
HAHAHA apparently decriminalization's not a big concern in D.C.

DC has approved Medical MJ but they still have to deal with Decriminalization along with a dozen states.
http://blog.mpp.org/medical-marijuana/mpps-dan-riffle-talks-medical-marijuana-regulations-on-abc-channel-8/08072010/
Though a dozen states have approved medical MJ, possession of small amounts is still criminal.

But, as many are predicting, the nation will go the way of California in legalization. It may take another few years as big pharma and the world's major distillers have a massive war chest (cash) to fight it.

P S
One of my coworkers is starting kimo therapy and is moving to Ca. for treatment and leaving his family here till he returns in about a year.

scott furbeck
10-12-2010, 02:48 PM
The terminator gene has never been used anywhere on this planet commercially. It has been in experimental plots (thus your confusion). You cannot buy seed containing the terminator gene anywhere on this planet.

road kill
10-12-2010, 03:04 PM
The terminator gene has never been used anywhere on this planet commercially. It has been in experimental plots (thus your confusion). You cannot buy seed containing the terminator gene anywhere on this planet.

What planet do you have to go to to get some??


RK

black0989
10-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Just my two pennies. I never touched a cigarrette, until I quit smoking pot to join the Marine Corps. I just recently stopped smoking cigarrettes ;) I can breathe again and feel better. Never did any other hard drugs, did shrooms alot but honestly they are found in cow $hit around here. Please forgive me, while the rest of america spends their weekend drinking and driving. Ill take my scooby snacks and sit at home or train dogs or go fishing or a walk with the wife and dog, while other people destroy their liver.

Sticky green regards.

scott furbeck
10-12-2010, 03:15 PM
The gene is not for sale. It was originally bought from Delta and Pine Land (a cotton company). It is a completely novel way of turning on and off transgene expression, Monsanto bought it.... to maintain a good patent position in this area. Most genes out there are not for sale, and may never be.

Actually those folks who are against transgenics should like this gene. It turns off any transgenes by rendering the seed sterile, so unlike an ealier post it, It DECREASES spread of transgenes outside of the field. It's not easy for the average guy to understand all this stuff, it is not intuitive. I live it every day, the regulations are just like a drug company (actually even worse). If you are interested in more of this stuff you can PM me.

kjrice
10-12-2010, 04:10 PM
Research backs up your assesment that it is not a Gateway drug. People that go on to other drugs would do so with or without pot. Research also shows that most pot users don't drink and those that do opt for wine over harder booze. (see mpp.org).

Just as the ban of booze financed organized crime in this coutry, the ban on pot has financed the drug cartels into muti-million dollar crime syndicates. Whereas, decriminalization would allow for taxing and substance control.

California will legalize it in November which will allow them to tax it. Long the #1 cash crop in Canada, the Canadians are debating legalization as well. Interesting is that the states with higher educational levels support decriminalization whereas the less educated states in the south still attempt to enforce their Draconian laws.

Lets don't forget the medicinal benefits that pot delivers to Cancer sufferers.

And people won't drive over 45mph on the highway.