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david gibson
10-26-2010, 09:18 PM
and this guy is our president? is this presidential??? he cant run on his accomplishments so even he has to get down in the mud at midterm. sad.

, there is obama today telling latinos that republicans are their enemy and they need to punish them. huh? i thought "There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America. There's the United States of America." ?? does he not remember saying that??? the man wont even call radical islam our enemy, and he says this.

and then there's this jewel today - using the worn out 6-month old comparison of driving the car into a ditch, he said "republicans are welcome to come along, but they are going to have to ride in the back"

just imagine a white candidate saying that, or worse - a fox news analyst. they would be fired on the spot, or worse.

this man is just dispicable.

Ken Bora
10-27-2010, 11:48 AM
..... "republicans are welcome to come along, but they are going to have to ride in the back"
........



Yup, that is a bad one.
do we even know who types the stuff he reads off that tele-prompter?

sandyg
10-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Yup, that is a bad one.
do we even know who types the stuff he reads off that tele-prompter?

My guess is either dnf or Yardley.

Julie R.
10-27-2010, 12:14 PM
Most presidents read their speeches before delivering them--or make sure they're vetted by their most trusted advisors. It does make you wonder, but then again, he's only doing what worked for him in 2008---dangling a bunch of free ch!t in exchange for votes.


Mr. Obama sought to assure Hispanics that he would push an immigration overhaul after the midterm elections, despite fierce Republican opposition.
“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”
Referring specifically to Republicans such as Senator John McCain, who are stressing border security and supporting strict immigration laws like Arizona’s anti-illegal immigration measure, Mr. Obama said, “Those aren’t the kinds of folks who represent our core American values.”

Gerry Clinchy
10-27-2010, 12:49 PM
Referring specifically to Republicans such as Senator John McCain, who are stressing border security and supporting strict immigration laws like Arizona’s anti-illegal immigration measure, Mr. Obama said, “Those aren’t the kinds of folks who represent our core American values.”

Now there's a real "feel good" statement ... "it's us against them".

Very divisive to classify the minority party as "enemies" ... heck, he doesn't even outright call Iran an enemy! Is this the same conciliatory attitude conveyed in the ostensible "working with" the minority party over the past two years? Doesn't sound like the kind of attitude that would draw the opposition party into a cooperative mood. Hope he's had a better sense of tact in dealing with international leaders.

YardleyLabs
10-27-2010, 01:38 PM
I'd say that "us against them" has been the theme of this campaign from the beginning with a united conservative front condemning the administration of almost everything including treason, without regard for truth (e.g., the ad link provided by Cleo). With respect to Hispanics, conservative organizations have been running intense ads saying that Democrats should be punished for having failed to deliver immigration reform by having Hispanics sit out the election. That's really going to help immigration reform.....

david gibson
10-27-2010, 01:50 PM
I'd say that "us against them" has been the theme of this campaign from the beginning with a united conservative front condemning the administration of almost everything including treason, without regard for truth (e.g., the ad link provided by Cleo). With respect to Hispanics, conservative organizations have been running intense ads saying that Democrats should be punished for having failed to deliver immigration reform by having Hispanics sit out the election. That's really going to help immigration reform.....

the master spinner strikes again. but who's surprised? we get a verbose reverse spin on every single post that ever comes up in this forum.

why dont you comment on what obama said and your feelings on that instead of the tired old "youse guys did it first" routine?

menmon
10-27-2010, 02:02 PM
and this guy is our president? is this presidential??? he cant run on his accomplishments so even he has to get down in the mud at midterm. sad.

, there is obama today telling latinos that republicans are their enemy and they need to punish them. huh? i thought "There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America. There's the United States of America." ?? does he not remember saying that??? the man wont even call radical islam our enemy, and he says this.

and then there's this jewel today - using the worn out 6-month old comparison of driving the car into a ditch, he said "republicans are welcome to come along, but they are going to have to ride in the back"

just imagine a white candidate saying that, or worse - a fox news analyst. they would be fired on the spot, or worse.

this man is just dispicable.

Now I know for sure you are a Beckyyyyy since I was in my contractors shack who just as eat up with it as you are when I heard him making hay with this. Funny how that contractor bashes the dems when it is their policy that is giving him the job. Sometime people are just not smart enough to come out of the rain. Oooppps I might have said something wrong. Good thing I'm not running for office against a republican.

Franco
10-27-2010, 02:45 PM
and this guy is our president? is this presidential??? he cant run on his accomplishments so even he has to get down in the mud at midterm. sad.

, there is obama today telling latinos that republicans are their enemy and they need to punish them. huh? i thought "There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America. There's the United States of America." ?? does he not remember saying that??? the man wont even call radical islam our enemy, and he says this.

and then there's this jewel today - using the worn out 6-month old comparison of driving the car into a ditch, he said "republicans are welcome to come along, but they are going to have to ride in the back"

just imagine a white candidate saying that, or worse - a fox news analyst. they would be fired on the spot, or worse.

this man is just dispicable.

Obama is desperate and is again appealing to the lowest common denominator among us, just like he did when he ran for President. He is beginning to realize that most of America has turned against him and his dreams of a socialist USA will not happen under his watch.

road kill
10-27-2010, 02:47 PM
My guess is either dnf or Yardley.

Now THAT right there folks is funny....I don't care who you are!!!:D


RK

road kill
10-27-2010, 02:49 PM
I'd say that "us against them" has been the theme of this campaign from the beginning with a united conservative front condemning the administration of almost everything including treason, without regard for truth (e.g., the ad link provided by Cleo). With respect to Hispanics, conservative organizations have been running intense ads saying that Democrats should be punished for having failed to deliver immigration reform by having Hispanics sit out the election. That's really going to help immigration reform.....


What is that??

Page 4??

HeeEEeeEEeeEe StAaaAaAAaRRrrtttTTttEEEeEddDdd IIiIiiIT!!!:cool:


RK

david gibson
10-27-2010, 02:52 PM
What is that??

Page 4??

HeeEEeeEEeeEe StAaaAaAAaRRrrtttTTttEEEeEddDdd IIiIiiIT!!!:cool:


RK

just like obama and the dems right now - they cant run on their record so all they can do is attack!

Ken Bora
10-28-2010, 06:57 AM
My guess is either dnf or Yardley.


Now THAT right there folks is funny....I don't care who you are!!!:D


RK

Seriously though,
When President Bush was in office many in opposition alleged that
V.P. Cheney was the brains in the Bush.
I seem to remember the term “Puppet master” used once or twice.
Who is this administrations puppet master?
This Howdy Doody must have a Pady Blackwood.;-)






.

david gibson
10-28-2010, 07:23 AM
Seriously though,
When President Bush was in office many in opposition alleged that
V.P. Cheney was the brains in the Bush.
I seem to remember the term “Puppet master” used once or twice.
Who is this administrations puppet master?
This Howdy Doody must have a Pady Blackwood.;-)

.

oh you know he does - but i think he said these things while off the teleprompter. with the teleprompter he stands tall and looks loftily to the left and then to the right teleprompter, with these he was stammering a little and acting too casual.

he is worse than biden sometimes!

and thats probably partly why he was yanked off the campaign trail this week, they cringe when they let him loose all over the country, coupled with the fact that no one else wanted him to stump on their behalf.

the "shove it" comment was a hoot!

Ken Bora
10-28-2010, 08:52 AM
The V.P. is in Vermont today stumpin for a feller running for Governor.
One of my disappointments with G.W. was that he never came to Vermont.
You can hop in the truck and drive to Kennebunkport with a tank of gas.
But he never came. Funny they are sending the V.P. for our tiny Governors race.
And the T.V. time…. Wow they are a spending $$$$ here. Don’t know why?


.

the "shove it" comment was a hoot!
that guys gonna win... ;-)

Gerry Clinchy
10-28-2010, 09:31 AM
I'd say that "us against them" has been the theme of this campaign from the beginning with a united conservative front condemning the administration of almost everything including treason, without regard for truth (e.g., the ad link provided by Cleo). With respect to Hispanics, conservative organizations have been running intense ads saying that Democrats should be punished for having failed to deliver immigration reform by having Hispanics sit out the election. That's really going to help immigration reform.....


One thing for the Pres to campaign for his party ... but I believe the Pres should not join in the "us against them" rhetoric ... after the votes are in he is going to have to work with whomever wins, so he''ll need some "good will" to do that.

I believe that the ad you refer to is that Hispanic fellow who's mad at the Democrats for not doing something about immigration reform.

What annoys me more is the amount of time O is spending on the campaign trail. He's a bright fellow, but still has to take some of his brain cells off-line WRT the big issues that need his attention on a daily basis. Makes me start thinking that the whole idea of the Presidency has turned into a "figurehead" position.

Julie R.
10-28-2010, 09:35 AM
Maybe my area is unique, but there are plenty of Latinos and they're all conservative, whether they're from Mexico, Cuba, Central or South America. Every single one I know is solidly against government handouts and waste and they all have a strong work ethic and firm commitment to family. I always wonder who's actually being polled when Hispanic voters are described as staunch Democrats unless they're polling the crimmigrants that are here illegally to get their free ch!t.

Goose
10-28-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm proud to be an enemy of this divisive and worthless President. He's going to have his stuff handed to him come next week and we can only hope that Dingy Harry, Nanzi Pelosi, Barney Frank and so many other career leftist pols who have been sodomizing this country for such a long time are thrown out on their ears.

We live in Cuba now.

menmon
10-28-2010, 12:43 PM
just like obama and the dems right now - they cant run on their record so all they can do is attack!

And you and the republicans are not?

menmon
10-28-2010, 12:47 PM
Maybe my area is unique, but there are plenty of Latinos and they're all conservative, whether they're from Mexico, Cuba, Central or South America. Every single one I know is solidly against government handouts and waste and they all have a strong work ethic and firm commitment to family. I always wonder who's actually being polled when Hispanic voters are described as staunch Democrats unless they're polling the crimmigrants that are here illegally to get their free ch!t.

I tried to hire a couple day latino labors today and there were 20 of them standing around and they would not work for $8 an hour with me assuring a 10 hour day. I guess they are waiting until after tuesday when the world changes and jobs are plentiful.

road kill
10-28-2010, 01:28 PM
I tried to hire a couple day latino labors today and there were 20 of them standing around and they would not work for $8 an hour with me assuring a 10 hour day. I guess they are waiting until after tuesday when the world changes and jobs are plentiful.


Maybe they didn't trust you!!??!!??;-)



RK

menmon
10-28-2010, 02:14 PM
Maybe they didn't trust you!!??!!??;-)



RK

No...I've worked half of them. They just know that when they work for me it usually has a handle on the end of it...shovel, axe, etc.

Biggest problem today is most are not skilled enough to earn more than $8 and too good to work for $8

road kill
10-28-2010, 02:40 PM
No...I've worked half of them. They just know that when they work for me it usually has a handle on the end of it...shovel, axe, etc.

Biggest problem today is most are not skilled enough to earn more than $8 and too good to work for $8

Are you insinuating a poor work ethic??:confused:


RK

menmon
10-28-2010, 02:42 PM
Are you insinuating a poor work ethic??:confused:


RK

Yes...but I was not refering to latinos...every contractor on my job has latinos working except the electricians and they are the laziest

Julie R.
10-28-2010, 04:49 PM
I tried to hire a couple day latino labors today and there were 20 of them standing around and they would not work for $8 an hour with me assuring a 10 hour day. I guess they are waiting until after tuesday when the world changes and jobs are plentiful.

Probably the same crimmigrants that answer the polls and want the current Pres. to stay in power so their illegal status can be wiped clean and they can get all their free ch!t.

Hoosier
10-28-2010, 05:20 PM
No...I've worked half of them. They just know that when they work for me it usually has a handle on the end of it...shovel, axe, etc.

Biggest problem today is most are not skilled enough to earn more than $8 and too good to work for $8

Was that $8 an hour with no benefits, work comp, matching social security, just straight cash. If so, it cost McDonalds more to employ the guy leaning against the counter. Working with a shovel, ax, ect is hard work and shouldn't be done that cheap. You were trying to take advantage of people, probably under the assumption that they would work cheap because they were Hispanic. Glad they stood up to you and refused to be shat on.

david gibson
10-28-2010, 06:03 PM
i have restrained myself - but really - you are admitting to hiring illegals? you just took work from a union man. nice.

and they want that much? $8 an hour?

you would think you could say i need a ditch dug, and i'll pay $4 an hour. if they really need the work, they will take it.

but to refuse it shows they have a leghold. funny. i would think they would take $4 an hour for just 1 hour over standing in a parking lot for 6 hours for $0.

illegals turning down $8/hour, unreal. used to be illegals settled for 1/2 minimum wage.


and the libs see no problem here...:rolleyes:

menmon
11-01-2010, 11:01 AM
i have restrained myself - but really - you are admitting to hiring illegals? you just took work from a union man. nice.

and they want that much? $8 an hour?

you would think you could say i need a ditch dug, and i'll pay $4 an hour. if they really need the work, they will take it.

but to refuse it shows they have a leghold. funny. i would think they would take $4 an hour for just 1 hour over standing in a parking lot for 6 hours for $0.

illegals turning down $8/hour, unreal. used to be illegals settled for 1/2 minimum wage.


and the libs see no problem here...:rolleyes:


They were not illegals. All of them have green cards at lest the ones that have worked for me. Once they realized their little strike was not working, the next day they were happy with $8. Now if I was a real bast%#d, I would have offered them minimum wage.

menmon
11-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Was that $8 an hour with no benefits, work comp, matching social security, just straight cash. If so, it cost McDonalds more to employ the guy leaning against the counter. Working with a shovel, ax, ect is hard work and shouldn't be done that cheap. You were trying to take advantage of people, probably under the assumption that they would work cheap because they were Hispanic. Glad they stood up to you and refused to be shat on.

No that is what you work for when you have no education or technical training and don't speak english. I would gladly have given these jobs to citizens if I could find some that thought they were not too good for it even though they have no trained skills.

However an observation, I do see the construction trades needing union representation since it has pretty much become hispanic and they are not earning what they are worth. But for the mean time, I'll pay market.

road kill
11-01-2010, 11:41 AM
No that is what you work for when you have no education or technical training and don't speak english. I would gladly have given these jobs to citizens if I could find some that thought they were not too good for it even though they have no trained skills.

However an observation, I do see the construction trades needing union representation since it has pretty much become hispanic and they are not earning what they are worth. But for the mean time, I'll pay market.

So you looked, but they ("citizens") all told you they were too good for the jobs?


C'mon man.........:rolleyes:


RK

YardleyLabs
11-01-2010, 01:34 PM
So you looked, but they ("citizens") all told you they were too good for the jobs?


C'mon man.........:rolleyes:


RK
I'm not sure what you find so surprising.

For several years, I operated a specialty consulting practice where we would place people with some unusual computer skills in major corporations around the country for assignments that lasted anywhere from a few months to a few years. Our average pay rate for consultants was $80-90,000 per year. Consultants had to have the required skills, be highly motivated, responsible, and, most importantly, be willing to relocate on two weeks notice when we moved them from one assignment to the next.

The relocation requirement was essential to our business. Our clients hired us because we could deliver people with the skills needed in even the smallest cities around the country. The Commerce Department considered this requirement to be so onerous, that we were not allowed to impose it on American citizens when we advertised for people to fill the positions. Instead, we had to advertise as if all assignments were permanent before we could get visa approval.

Even with that, and despite paying more than $100,000 per year in advertising and employing six full time recruiters, we were never able to hire US citizens for more than 20% of our jobs despite above market compensation and benefits. The work locations were simply too far out of the way. Instead, we hired staff from England, Ireland and India. There we could hire as many people as we wanted, whenever we wanted, and they would move anywhere we sent them. The typical person stayed with us for 6-8 years while we sponsored them for Green Cards, and quit as soon as their Green Cards were approved. The Americans we hired never lasted past the first relocation -- usually about 6-12 months.

That business ultimately disappeared. The jobs never went to Americans. Instead, all of the work was ultimately sent to India where it could be done better at lower cost.

Buzz
11-01-2010, 02:05 PM
That business ultimately disappeared. The jobs never went to Americans. Instead, all of the work was ultimately sent to India where it could be done better at lower cost.

I worked at a company that tried offshoring the design and programming of a product configurator to India. It was a huge cluster f. We ended up pulling it back and doing it in house.

Hew
11-01-2010, 03:21 PM
However an observation, I do see the construction trades needing union representation since it has pretty much become hispanic and they are not earning what they are worth. But for the mean time, I'll pay market.
Hmmmm, I don't know what's more striking...the bold-faced hypocrisy or the pathetic rationalization.

PS...This forum is already neck-deep in horsesh!t, so please, no more claims of checking the day laborer's green cards. A lot of us were born at night, but it wasn't last night.

menmon
11-01-2010, 04:35 PM
Hmmmm, I don't know what's more striking...the bold-faced hypocrisy or the pathetic rationalization.

PS...This forum is already neck-deep in horsesh!t, so please, no more claims of checking the day laborer's green cards. A lot of us were born at night, but it wasn't last night.

I check them because I have a lot to lose, besides that, I grew up farming and I can spot a wet from a mile away.

It is not hypocrisy, it is fact. Anglo and african americans don't want these jobs anymore no matter what they pay. Think about it, do you know a white or black guy that will pour concrete, lay brick, hang sheetrock? And if you know someone, will they work as hard as the hispanics men? Now I didn't ask about the supervisor or owner of the company, I asked about the worker.

These were the good jobs 30 years ago. The farm work had already fell out of vogue.

Hoosier
11-01-2010, 05:17 PM
I check them because I have a lot to lose, besides that, I grew up farming and I can spot a wet from a mile away.

It is not hypocrisy, it is fact. Anglo and african americans don't want these jobs anymore no matter what they pay. Think about it, do you know a white or black guy that will pour concrete, lay brick, hang sheetrock? And if you know someone, will they work as hard as the hispanics men? Now I didn't ask about the supervisor or owner of the company, I asked about the worker.

These were the good jobs 30 years ago. The farm work had already fell out of vogue.

I know plenty of white guys that will hang sheetrock. The problem is, they won't hang it for half the money they were getting 17 or 18 years ago. The Mexicans up here are working that cheap. When I moved to Minnesota 18 years ago I was hanging sheetrock, and getting 12 cents a square foot, and double on any sheets over 8 feet high. The Mexicans are now working for 8 cents a foot with no extra over 8 feet. We also got extra for things like barrel vaults, spiral stairwells, ect, but the guys can't get that now. All said it comes out to less than half, and is no longer a living wage. I know some guys that have tried to lower their price to match the Mexicans price, and they (mexicans) just do it even cheaper. Problem is, you can not operate a legitimate construction company and compete with people who are working that cheap. For that price you can't hire someone and pay work comp, match SS, ect, and not lose money.

There is still some work remodeling where people don't want people who don't speak the mother tongue in their house. So that's what most of the white guys are doing, when they can. I know lots of guys from the trades who haven't worked on a new house in 4 or 5 years.

road kill
11-01-2010, 05:53 PM
I'm not sure what you find so surprising.

For several years, I operated a specialty consulting practice where we would place people with some unusual computer skills in major corporations around the country for assignments that lasted anywhere from a few months to a few years. Our average pay rate for consultants was $80-90,000 per year. Consultants had to have the required skills, be highly motivated, responsible, and, most importantly, be willing to relocate on two weeks notice when we moved them from one assignment to the next.

The relocation requirement was essential to our business. Our clients hired us because we could deliver people with the skills needed in even the smallest cities around the country. The Commerce Department considered this requirement to be so onerous, that we were not allowed to impose it on American citizens when we advertised for people to fill the positions. Instead, we had to advertise as if all assignments were permanent before we could get visa approval.

Even with that, and despite paying more than $100,000 per year in advertising and employing six full time recruiters, we were never able to hire US citizens for more than 20% of our jobs despite above market compensation and benefits. The work locations were simply too far out of the way. Instead, we hired staff from England, Ireland and India. There we could hire as many people as we wanted, whenever we wanted, and they would move anywhere we sent them. The typical person stayed with us for 6-8 years while we sponsored them for Green Cards, and quit as soon as their Green Cards were approved. The Americans we hired never lasted past the first relocation -- usually about 6-12 months.

That business ultimately disappeared. The jobs never went to Americans. Instead, all of the work was ultimately sent to India where it could be done better at lower cost.
Just out of curiosity, WTH does that have to do with my question to sambo??:rolleyes:



RK

Buzz
11-01-2010, 06:43 PM
I know plenty of white guys that will hang sheetrock. The problem is, they won't hang it for half the money they were getting 17 or 18 years ago. The Mexicans up here are working that cheap. When I moved to Minnesota 18 years ago I was hanging sheetrock, and getting 12 cents a square foot, and double on any sheets over 8 feet high. The Mexicans are now working for 8 cents a foot with no extra over 8 feet. We also got extra for things like barrel vaults, spiral stairwells, ect, but the guys can't get that now. All said it comes out to less than half, and is no longer a living wage. I know some guys that have tried to lower their price to match the Mexicans price, and they (mexicans) just do it even cheaper. Problem is, you can not operate a legitimate construction company and compete with people who are working that cheap. For that price you can't hire someone and pay work comp, match SS, ect, and not lose money.

There is still some work remodeling where people don't want people who don't speak the mother tongue in their house. So that's what most of the white guys are doing, when they can. I know lots of guys from the trades who haven't worked on a new house in 4 or 5 years.


My brother and I finished drywall back when we were in our 20's. I'd meet him after my day job and we would put up mud and or sand till midnight and we made good money. My brother had to quit drywalling back in the early 2000's because he could not make half what we did back in the 80's, or 30 years ago. The companies using Mexicans pretty much put him out of business. For awhile he held it together going in and fixing jobs that the Mexicans had screwed up. One day he told the contractor, you could save money by just hiring me and getting it done right in the first place. The guy said, no actually it's way cheaper to have me just clean up after them.

I had a house built in Westchester Ohio back in the mid 90's. I sold the house 5 years later and before I could sell it, I had to go around and fix countless nail pops. The Mexicans they hired used screws in the middle of the board, but at the seems they tacked up the board with straight nails. The didn't used drywall nails like they should have, the bass tards. I went around the house with needle nose pliers and pulled all those nails out and replaced them with drywall nails, then mudded and sanded them. It took me about 2 freak'in weeks at night after work to do it.

I guess it was cheaper for them to give me a sh!te job that I had to fix 5 years later. I hope I got the vast majority of them for the sake of the family that bought the house from me.

I know a couple of roofers that got out for the same reason. We see a lot of them doing concrete here now too. A Mexican family actually bought the concrete company here so they do the mix, drive the trucks, and pour & finish.

I have a cousin who was a union drywaller around Detroit. They belonged to the painters union and their wages were between $17 and $25/hour. Not much overtime though. He did commercial work and was in charge of jobs like airport terminals and high rises etc towar the end of his career. He is in his late 50's and retired now. But he is still doing it on the side and making decent money at it, but he has pretty good connections.

sandyg
11-01-2010, 06:44 PM
Just out of curiosity, WTH does that have to do with my question to sambo??:rolleyes:



RK

Cliff Clavin just likes to hear himself yap.

I keep telling him, "brevity is the soul of wit... brevity is the soul of wit... brevity is the soul of wit..." but it just doesn't sink in. It's not that he doesn't understand, it's that he's too busy planning his next response to make us realize how smart he is.

road kill
11-01-2010, 06:50 PM
Cliff Clavin just likes to hear himself yap.

I keep telling him, "brevity is the soul of wit... brevity is the soul of wit... brevity is the soul of wit..." but it just doesn't sink in. It's not that he doesn't understand, it's that he's too busy planning his next response to make us realize how smart he is.

I am of the opinion that most of us know exactly how smart he is......:rolleyes:



RK

Wrangler
11-01-2010, 06:51 PM
He's the president that no one will admit voting for. Carter will be happy about that!

Hoosier
11-01-2010, 07:32 PM
My brother and I finished drywall back when we were in our 20's. I'd meet him after my day job and we would put up mud and or sand till midnight and we made good money. My brother had to quit drywalling back in the early 2000's because he could not make half what we did back in the 80's, or 30 years ago. The companies using Mexicans pretty much put him out of business. For awhile he held it together going in and fixing jobs that the Mexicans had screwed up. One day he told the contractor, you could save money by just hiring me and getting it done right in the first place. The guy said, no actually it's way cheaper to have me just clean up after them.

I had a house built in Westchester Ohio back in the mid 90's. I sold the house 5 years later and before I could sell it, I had to go around and fix countless nail pops. The Mexicans they hired used screws in the middle of the board, but at the seems they tacked up the board with straight nails. The didn't used drywall nails like they should have, the bass tards. I went around the house with needle nose pliers and pulled all those nails out and replaced them with drywall nails, then mudded and sanded them. It took me about 2 freak'in weeks at night after work to do it.

I guess it was cheaper for them to give me a sh!te job that I had to fix 5 years later. I hope I got the vast majority of them for the sake of the family that bought the house from me.

I know a couple of roofers that got out for the same reason. We see a lot of them doing concrete here now too. A Mexican family actually bought the concrete company here so they do the mix, drive the trucks, and pour & finish.

I have a cousin who was a union drywaller around Detroit. They belonged to the painters union and their wages were between $17 and $25/hour. Not much overtime though. He did commercial work and was in charge of jobs like airport terminals and high rises etc towar the end of his career. He is in his late 50's and retired now. But he is still doing it on the side and making decent money at it, but he has pretty good connections.

Good post, I really get irritated when I hear people say "Americans don't want those jobs" when the truth is, they just can't do the jobs for what the illegals do them for.

Hew
11-02-2010, 12:59 AM
I check them because I have a lot to lose, besides that, I grew up farming and I can spot a wet from a mile away. Sorry, but I'm finding it difficult to accept the notion that you're fine with ignoring numerous federal (and likely state) employment laws by hiring some swingin' dick loitering at the Home Depot for cash, but you take the time to meticulously check out the immigration status of said swingin' dick (begging the pardon of your discerning nose for "wets," of course) before telling him to hop in the back of your truck.

It is not hypocrisy, it is fact. No, it's bald-faced hypocrisy when you advocate Unions for the construction trades working on other peoples' jobs and then turn around and illegally hire cheap labor (legal or not) for your own job. It's pathetic rationalization when you contend that you won't pay a fair rate to workers on your job until you're forced to. Anglo and african americans don't want these jobs anymore no matter what they pay. More rationalization. Think about it, do you know a white or black guy that will pour concrete, lay brick, hang sheetrock? And if you know someone, will they work as hard as the hispanics men? Now I didn't ask about the supervisor or owner of the company, I asked about the worker.

These were the good jobs 30 years ago. The farm work had already fell out of vogue.

ps...if you can "spot a wet from a mile away" why the need to check their green card?

menmon
11-02-2010, 09:03 AM
ps...if you can "spot a wet from a mile away" why the need to check their green card?

So I can issue a 1099...I need a ss# too. It doesn't matter if it is legit or not, that is not my responsibility according to tax law.

menmon
11-02-2010, 09:13 AM
See everything I just wrote about and the responses saying that people can not run a legitimate business and compete with the mexicans says it all why unions are important.

See when these union guys fault hard and made sacrifices to make a better wage, some non-union worker went in and did the work for less, albeit probablly not as good, but they could get a union worker to clean up his mess. Now mexicans are undercutting the non-union workers. Sucks does it!

That is why you need to orginize the mexicans, so you can get a good wage back in your trade!

You guys need to quit drinking the big business water and following their MCs like Beck. Unions have the working mans back!

Hoosier
11-02-2010, 09:35 AM
See everything I just wrote about and the responses saying that people can not run a legitimate business and compete with the mexicans says it all why unions are important.

See when these union guys fault hard and made sacrifices to make a better wage, some non-union worker went in and did the work for less, albeit probablly not as good, but they could get a union worker to clean up his mess. Now mexicans are undercutting the non-union workers. Sucks does it!

That is why you need to orginize the mexicans, so you can get a good wage back in your trade!

You guys need to quit drinking the big business water and following their MCs like Beck. Unions have the working mans back!

I was a union carpenter for awhile. Here is how they had my back. I was working for a company and they just stopped paying me and the other guys. I called the union for help and was told "We'll take your dues out of your vacation fund for ya". That was the extent of their help. Needless to say I was done with the union. I also made way more money on my own.

menmon
11-02-2010, 09:44 AM
I was a union carpenter for awhile. Here is how they had my back. I was working for a company and they just stopped paying me and the other guys. I called the union for help and was told "We'll take your dues out of your vacation fund for ya". That was the extent of their help. Needless to say I was done with the union. I also made way more money on my own.

Are you able to compete with the mexicans?

Hoosier
11-02-2010, 09:45 AM
Are you able to compete with the mexicans?

I don't work in the trades anymore

menmon
11-02-2010, 09:58 AM
I don't work in the trades anymore

That is my point.

You comment about your union is probably true. Having said that, unions are not only about you to begin with, and their was probably nothing they could do for you in this case. Dues are used to help the overall brotherhood and I'm sorry they did not work for you. You left them and profited for awhile but it sounds like that ended. It might not have had to end if you had supported your union and not voted to limit their ability to help you.

road kill
11-02-2010, 09:59 AM
Are you able to compete with the mexicans?

Maybe if we give them amnesty and citizenship that will fix it all!!



RK

menmon
11-02-2010, 10:21 AM
Maybe if we give them amnesty and citizenship that will fix it all!!



RK

No that is not what republicans want you know that. They want them to keep coming over here and working on the cheap, since good business is to work someone as cheap as you can and get the most for it.

They don't want them to organize and have to pay them a good wage. They don't want to redistribute their wealth by paying them what they are worth. They want them to live at a way lower standards than them, so they can compare themselves to them and be the rich guy.

Hoosier
11-02-2010, 10:26 AM
That is my point.

You comment about your union is probably true. Having said that, unions are not only about you to begin with, and their was probably nothing they could do for you in this case. Dues are used to help the overall brotherhood and I'm sorry they did not work for you. You left them and profited for awhile but it sounds like that ended. It might not have had to end if you had supported your union and not voted to limit their ability to help you.

Actually, I had a drywall company for about 15 years after that, and over the last 10 years of business averaged about 60,000 sheets a year hung, taped, sprayed, along with a bunch of steel stud framing. I was smart with my money, no longer have to try and compete with them. While I was doing that, my wife finished her degree in electrical engineering, and does pretty good herself. I do have two f-ed up shoulders from the work, that I'm in the process of getting fixed though.

ducknwork
11-02-2010, 11:06 AM
See everything I just wrote about and the responses saying that people can not run a legitimate business and compete with the mexicans says it all why unions are important.

See when these union guys fault hard and made sacrifices to make a better wage, some non-union worker went in and did the work for less, albeit probablly not as good, but they could get a union worker to clean up his mess. Now mexicans are undercutting the non-union workers. Sucks does it!

That is why you need to orginize the mexicans, so you can get a good wage back in your trade!

You guys need to quit drinking the big business water and following their MCs like Beck. Unions have the working mans back!

Or....get the illegals out of the country.

I like my idea better.

dnf777
11-02-2010, 11:06 AM
My guess is either dnf or Yardley.

Wow. I'm flattered that you would consider my literary skills on par with a presidential speech-writer!

The closest I ever came was as an unpaid health-care advisor to Jason Altmier. (who voted against Obamacare, BTW)

I was going to reply that I'd guess YOU were speech writer for Bush 43, but at Chris' request, am keeping personal insults to a minimum! :D

menmon
11-02-2010, 12:13 PM
Actually, I had a drywall company for about 15 years after that, and over the last 10 years of business averaged about 60,000 sheets a year hung, taped, sprayed, along with a bunch of steel stud framing. I was smart with my money, no longer have to try and compete with them. While I was doing that, my wife finished her degree in electrical engineering, and does pretty good herself. I do have two f-ed up shoulders from the work, that I'm in the process of getting fixed though.

That's a good sucess story. The sad part of this arguement is that this types of honest hard working jobs don't pay what they are worth anymore, relative to the cost of living in America. Men of my fathers day were proud to be craftsmen and cared for their families well.

Because of globalization many good jobs have left and are not coming back, so without higher education many are displaced. Its a tough world and easy credit and consumer spending is no longer the ticket for our survival. So unless we can keep the good paying jobs in america by educating ourselfs to do them, peoples well-being will suffer.

menmon
11-02-2010, 12:16 PM
Or....get the illegals out of the country.

I like my idea better.

Good ideal...but you better have everyone else on board too, because everything cost more then. See it is hard to win with this. Its a vicous cycle.

Cody Covey
11-02-2010, 12:20 PM
Good ideal...but you better have everyone else on board too, because everything cost more then. See it is hard to win with this. Its a vicous cycle.

But then A LOT less on the government dole while giving nothing in so taxes could go down and then prices of goods will go down.

luvmylabs23139
11-02-2010, 12:26 PM
Good ideal...but you better have everyone else on board too, because everything cost more then. See it is hard to win with this. Its a vicous cycle.

The solution to that is simple. Make the people on welfare get a darn job.
Force them to take the jobs or be out of luck. No more free ride!

menmon
11-02-2010, 01:17 PM
The solution to that is simple. Make the people on welfare get a darn job.
Force them to take the jobs or be out of luck. No more free ride!

Just think how little our employers would be able to pay if millions more people started chasing our jobs. Most of us are safe though because those people have no skills. Truth is many of them work and don't report it and collect the check too.

Buzz
11-02-2010, 01:51 PM
But then A LOT less on the government dole while giving nothing in so taxes could go down and then prices of goods will go down.

That's what we need. A little deflation never hurt anyone.;-)

ducknwork
11-02-2010, 02:19 PM
Just think how little our employers would be able to pay if millions more people started chasing our jobs. Most of us are safe though because those people have no skills. Truth is many of them work and don't report it and collect the check too.

And if employers paid less, demand on products, goods and services would be reduced...Therefore, the price would have to be reduced in order for the same products, goods, and services to remain in existence...It would be tough for a long time, but it would eventually work itself out. You know, kinda like the dropping home values and prices. Eventually, they'll get low enough demand will be there again.

YardleyLabs
11-02-2010, 02:22 PM
And if employers paid less, demand on products, goods and services would be reduced...Therefore, the price would have to be reduced in order for the same products, goods, and services to remain in existence...It would be tough for a long time, but it would eventually work itself out. You know, kinda like the dropping home values and prices. Eventually, they'll get low enough demand will be there again.
Don't underestimate the negative economic effects of deflation. When prices decline, the value of current assets declines as well. Meanwhile, the value of debt stays the same. Th downward spiral can be deadly as was seen during the Great Depression.

Buzz
11-02-2010, 02:57 PM
Don't underestimate the negative economic effects of deflation. When prices decline, the value of current assets declines as well. Meanwhile, the value of debt stays the same. Th downward spiral can be deadly as was seen during the Great Depression.


This thought has had me nervous for awhile. I have been tempted to "cash out" of this economy at times. If you have deflation, cash is king. I laugh at people who think that inflation is right around the corner, and yet they are busily paying down their debts and saving. If they had conviction in that belief, they would be spending money they don't have like drunken sailors.

menmon
11-02-2010, 03:00 PM
These issues are way above the pay grade of Glenn Beck!

Too many moving parts for his little mind. See now the talk is nobel prize winners are idiots, because they don't want you to listen to someone that is smart. Funny how they lead you around with cable news and the internet.

The world sucks right now and it isn't easy when it doesn't suck. It just can't be sized up with a Tea Party slogan.

Franco
11-02-2010, 03:21 PM
This thought has had me nervous for awhile. I have been tempted to "cash out" of this economy at times. If you have deflation, cash is king. I laugh at people who think that inflation is right around the corner, and yet they are busily paying down their debts and saving. If they had conviction in that belief, they would be spending money they don't have like drunken sailors.

Except for local real estate investment (rental property), I've cashed out. Other than my retirement savings being in Money Market accounts, I wouldn't touch or trust the stock market with a 100 foot pole!

Besides, real estate around here is stable, only going up a little under 3% over the last two years. New subdivisions are still being built and folks are still building new homes. Too much money in this area for real estate to plunge.

Two years ago, we were considered to have "full employemnt" under 3% unemployment. Recruiters have to go to other areas to get workers. After 2 years of Obama, we now have 5% unemployment mostly to do with the current administrations distain for oil production. They would rather buy imported oil. At least the Medical industry here will do well until Obamacare takes effect. Hopefully, much of Obamacare will be reversed!

Buzz
11-02-2010, 04:19 PM
These issues are way above the pay grade of Glenn Beck!

Too many moving parts for his little mind. See now the talk is nobel prize winners are idiots, because they don't want you to listen to someone that is smart. Funny how they lead you around with cable news and the internet.

The world sucks right now and it isn't easy when it doesn't suck. It just can't be sized up with a Tea Party slogan.


Someone should email these comments from Bush economic advisor, N. Mankiw. Do you think his head would explode? I'd like to hear him respond to it...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/business/economy/19view.html?_r=2

road kill
11-02-2010, 07:50 PM
These issues are way above the pay grade of Glenn Beck!

Too many moving parts for his little mind. See now the talk is nobel prize winners are idiots, because they don't want you to listen to someone that is smart. Funny how they lead you around with cable news and the internet.

The world sucks right now and it isn't easy when it doesn't suck. It just can't be sized up with a Tea Party slogan.

Well then, maybe we should "ride in the back!!??!!??"

That's a nice slogan.:D

I imagine Glenn Beck's paygrade is a tad above yours!!;)


RK

Buzz
11-03-2010, 08:04 AM
I imagine Glenn Beck's paygrade is a tad above yours!!;)


RK


I don't care how much Beck makes, he's an idiot.

Maybe we should make him president.

gman0046
11-03-2010, 09:13 AM
The fact is Beck couldn't possibly do any worse then Obongolo. Yesterday the American public told us what they think of the Kenyan Clown.

menmon
11-03-2010, 09:50 AM
The fact is Beck couldn't possibly do any worse then Obongolo. Yesterday the American public told us what they think of the Kenyan Clown.

Where are the jobs they promised if they were elected? I don't want to hear that it is Obama's fault or the democrats. It is time for the republicans to be accountable. When does it stop being the democrats fault? Hell they were not in office long enough to have changed anything anyway, and the little bit they did the republicans are going to undo. Where are the JOBS!

david gibson
11-03-2010, 10:22 AM
Where are the jobs they promised if they were elected? I don't want to hear that it is Obama's fault or the democrats. It is time for the republicans to be accountable. When does it stop being the democrats fault? Hell they were not in office long enough to have changed anything anyway, and the little bit they did the republicans are going to undo. Where are the JOBS!

crying already?

and even if they fail, at least they fail in a better direction than the dems failed. i'll take failure while trying to make a stronger more secure republic with smaller govt over failure trying to steer us toward socialism and appeasement.

gman0046
11-03-2010, 10:35 AM
Sambo, Obongolo is responsible for a failed stimulus plan. a health care plan nobody wants and an inability to cope with this countries worst unemployment since the Great Depression. What happened to his claim unemployment wouldn't go above 8%? I'm with you when asking Obongolo where are the JOBS?
Yesterday was a referendum on a failed presidency. Too bad you can't deal with it.

menmon
11-03-2010, 01:26 PM
Sambo, Obongolo is responsible for a failed stimulus plan. a health care plan nobody wants and an inability to cope with this countries worst unemployment since the Great Depression. What happened to his claim unemployment wouldn't go above 8%? I'm with you when asking Obongolo where are the JOBS?
Yesterday was a referendum on a failed presidency. Too bad you can't deal with it.

I can deal with it...I just want the republicans held to the same standard the democrats were these last 2 years. Trust me, I'll be pointing out every little slip of the tongue, wasteful spending, etc. Obviously the stock market isn't as excited as you are today!

menmon
11-03-2010, 01:27 PM
I'm leaving for the Metro Trial...We can pick this back up on Monday.

road kill
11-03-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm leaving for the Metro Trial...We can pick this back up on Monday.

Good luck!!


stan b & Elvis

WaterDogRem
11-03-2010, 01:48 PM
I can deal with it...I just want the republicans held to the same standard the democrats were these last 2 years. Trust me, I'll be pointing out every little slip of the tongue, wasteful spending, etc. Obviously the stock market isn't as excited as you are today!

Sorry but the market did drop this afternoon due to the election but due to the fed reserve's 600 billon spending pledge.

Good Luck at Metro

Buzz
11-03-2010, 09:06 PM
Sorry but the market did drop this afternoon due to the election but due to the fed reserve's 600 billon spending pledge.

Good Luck at Metro

You didn't wait for the pundits to weigh in. They seem to differ with you at Business Week.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9J8RHP00.htm

depittydawg
11-03-2010, 09:20 PM
Sorry but the market did drop this afternoon due to the election but due to the fed reserve's 600 billon spending pledge.

Good Luck at Metro

I heard about this 600 billion. Nice sneak. Election day, nobody is paying attention. What the heck? Is this another Obama massive screw up or what? More money to banks to stimulate Jobs????????? How many times do you go to a well that is dried up? I thought these guys were supposed to be smart!