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Gerry Clinchy
11-16-2010, 10:22 AM
From the NY Times



An ethics subcommittee is scheduled to reconvene Tuesday morning and consider whether to formally find Mr. Rangel guilty on each of the 13 counts. If he is found guilty on any of the charges, the entire ethics committee would deliberate on a suitable punishment, which ethics experts say would most likely be a letter of reprimand or a formal censure. While the committee has the power to expel, that has happened only rarely and is considered highly unlikely.


This has got to be the supreme joke on the rest of us "common people."

He's been re-elected & can continue to do business as usual after they slap him on the hand.

As I understand it, tax fraud could mean jail time for any of the rest of us. "Sloppy finances" would not be much of a defense.

dnf777
11-16-2010, 10:30 AM
From the NY Times



This has got to be the supreme joke on the rest of us "common people."

He's been re-elected & can continue to do business as usual after they slap him on the hand.

As I understand it, tax fraud could mean jail time for any of the rest of us. "Sloppy finances" would not be much of a defense.


There really is a two-tiered justice system in play. Ok, so the subcommittee gives him a pass....where is the IRS coming down on him like it would you and me? :confused:

This is just like you or me shooting someone in the head after consuming a "couple of beers", and telling the game warden....oh, I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Yeah, right! We don't play be the same rules.

david gibson
11-16-2010, 10:53 AM
There really is a two-tiered justice system in play. Ok, so the subcommittee gives him a pass....where is the IRS coming down on him like it would you and me? :confused:

This is just like you or me shooting someone in the head after consuming a "couple of beers", and telling the game warden....oh, I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Yeah, right! We don't play be the same rules.

more bush/cheney witch hunting hatred continuing i see, will you ever grow up and get over it? there is hardly a comparison here. show me where it is against the law to drink a beer or even two and then go shoot quail. it doesnt exist. it is against the law to discharge a firearm while intoxicated. whether cheney drank a beer or two is a moot point, he says no but we all know it is a good possibility he did have a beer or two, but there has been no evidence whatsoever that anyone was intoxicated, and i highly doubt he was.

no law broken.

The Kenedy County Sheriff - Ray Salinas -a democrat - cleared Cheney of any criminal wrongdoing in the matter.

in this case, you and i would be cleared as well, because no law was broken.

dnf777
11-16-2010, 11:01 AM
more bush/cheney witch hunting hatred continuing i see, will you ever grow up and get over it? there is hardly a comparison here. show me where it is against the law to drink a beer or even two and then go shoot quail. it doesnt exist. it is against the law to discharge a firearm while intoxicated. whether cheney drank a beer or two is a moot point, he says no but we all know it is a good possibility he did have a beer or two, but there has been no evidence whatsoever that anyone was intoxicated, and i highly doubt he was.

no law broken.

The Kenedy County Sheriff - Ray Salinas -a democrat - cleared Cheney of any criminal wrongdoing in the matter.

in this case, you and i would be cleared as well, because no law was broken.


You continue to out-do yourself.

You mustn't get out very much, if you think you can inflict harm on another person, then tell a law-enforcement official who's been alerted to the incident.....I'll submit to your questions and testing tomorrow!!!!

You can wreck you car and commit no crime....but try leaving the scene of an accident to avoid a sobriety check and see what happens. We'll never know if he had one beer, or 10, because he evaded questioning and testing.

When guns are involved, and there's even a spectre of alcohol (which there was by his own admission) there is mandatory BAL testing, because if you test positive, you got problems.

You're right only as far as he *possibly* broke no laws. But having the privelage and luxury of telling the Game Warden that you'll see him tomorrow........well, that dog won't hunt for me and you.

david gibson
11-16-2010, 11:44 AM
take off the foil hat. the AP timeline:

"4 p.m.: Cheney begins an afternoon quail hunt with four other hunters on the private Armstrong Ranch in south Texas. They had been hunting earlier in the day, but took a break for lunch.

6:30 p.m.: Cheney accidentally shoots fellow hunter Harry Whittington while aiming for a bird. Secret Service agents and medical personnel with Cheney tend to wounds on Whittington's face, neck and chest.

7:20 p.m.: An ambulance takes Whittington to a Christus Spohn Hospital Kleburg.

7:30 p.m.: White House chief of staff Andy Card tells President Bush there was an accident, but Card is unaware Cheney was involved.

7:50 p.m.: The head of the Secret Service office in McAllen, Texas, calls the Kenedy County sheriff to report the accident. The sheriff asks to speak to Cheney, and they schedule an interview for 9 a.m. Sunday. At the White House, presidential aide Karl Rove tells Bush that Cheney was the shooter, after talking to ranch owner Katharine Armstrong.

Saturday evening: Cheney and the rest of the hunting party sit down for dinner at the ranch. At some point, sheriff's deputies who heard reports of the ambulance responding to an accident at the ranch stop at the front gate to see if anyone needs help, but are told no one needs assistance. The Secret Service earlier had said the deputies were seeking to interview Cheney, but on Tuesday they said that was not the case. Armstrong says no one at the dininner discussed announcing the accident to the public because they were all focused on Whittington's well being."

add this to the fact the democrat sheriff agreed no law was broken and its a closed case of a hunting accident. no black helicopters were used.
so the game warden and the sheriffs department are all in cahoots? could be. although you certainly should notify law enforcement immediately after a hunting accident, and this is taught in hunters ed classes, i am not certain there is a legal requirement to do so in any required timeline and that waiting overnight is breaking the law. sure, if you wait several days there is a problem, but overnight may not be. if so, then blame the sheriff and game warden for not doing their job.

oh yeah, next you'll say they were threatened....

have at it, you can have the last word.

Ken Bora
11-16-2010, 11:48 AM
This is just like you or me shooting someone in the head after consuming a "couple of beers", and telling the game warden....oh, I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Yeah, right! We don't play be the same rules.


you are right, and I am sure Mary Jo Kopechne would agree with you.






.

sandyg
11-16-2010, 11:52 AM
There really is a two-tiered justice system in play. Ok, so the subcommittee gives him a pass....where is the IRS coming down on him like it would you and me? :confused:

This is just like you or me driving a car off a bridge in Chappaquiddick , and telling the police....oh, I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Yeah, right! We don't play be the same rules.

There, I fixed it for you, Cliff Clavin.

Ken Bora
11-16-2010, 12:03 PM
Changing somebody quoted text, is telling a lie. Notice how I made the same point just before you, without lieing.
In fact I bet you had to google Mary Jo just to see what I was talking about because there is no way you sould spell
The name of the river on your own!







.

Roger Perry
11-16-2010, 12:14 PM
Rangel found guilty of violating 11 House rules

Possible punishments include a House vote deploring Rangel's conduct, a fine and denial of privileges.

Rangel, your a bad boy, now go stand in the corner for a time out:shock:

Buzz
11-16-2010, 12:34 PM
7:50 p.m.: The head of the Secret Service office in McAllen, Texas, calls the Kenedy County sheriff to report the accident. The sheriff asks to speak to Cheney, and they schedule an interview for 9 a.m. Sunday. At the White House, presidential aide Karl Rove tells Bush that Cheney was the shooter, after talking to ranch owner Katharine Armstrong.




You shoot someone on Saturday afternoon, then see if you can "schedule an interview" with law enforcement the next morning.

ROTFLMFAO

david gibson
11-16-2010, 12:42 PM
You shoot someone on Saturday afternoon, then see if you can "schedule an interview" with law enforcement the next morning.

ROTFLMFAO

big difference in an intentional shooting and an accident.

and if there was sooooooo much wrongdoing, why was there no congressional inquiry? because they knew there was no fire either.

you guys will never get over your hatred. but thats ok, i will never like The Apologist either. but at least i have a valid reason.....

Julie R.
11-16-2010, 01:20 PM
Cheney and Teddy have been discussed plenty; let's leave them out and keep to the topic at hand: Rangel. Does no one else see the irony of this arrogant, deceitful CRIMINAL getting re-elected and acting like he's done nothing wrong? And playing the race card if anyone dare hints otherwise? Rangel is a poster child for smug assurance that Congressional office is a get out of jail free card for breaking laws. He needs to be removed from office by his peers and locked up with the poor and downtrodden he champions.

BonMallari
11-16-2010, 01:24 PM
was it ever reported if the guys got their limit on birds......:p:p

dnf777
11-16-2010, 01:24 PM
Changing somebody quoted text, is telling a lie. Notice how I made the same point just before you, without lieing.
In fact I bet you had to google Mary Jo just to see what I was talking about because there is no way you sould spell
The name of the river on your own!


.


Ken, I agree with you about Kennedy. I don't think there's a prison large enough to hold all the politicians (from both parties) that should be behind bars!

Didn't catch the other comment you refer to. I quit reading them a while ago.
I have 6 and 8 year olds at home that I get enough of that from. ;)

YardleyLabs
11-16-2010, 01:25 PM
Before crying foul on tolerance of criminal behavior, it makes sense to look at the charges involved. Unlike prior such hearings, Rangel was not being charged with corruption, tax evasion or any other violation of the law. He was charged with violating House rules in connection with fund raising for a school of public policy created and named after him at City College in NYC. The actions he took were similar to those taken by Bush, Cheney, Clinton, and their various predecessors in setting up presidential libraries. Rangel was specifically charged with using official stationery and franking privileges to solicit funds for the school, and soliciting contributions for the school from lobbyists. The other charges against him were for incomplete information in his congressional financial disclosure forms (not his tax returns) and for failure to conform with NYC rules concerning use of rent controlled apartments. That too is not a crime. Rather, it simply provides the landlord with an opportunity to evict the tenant without violating NYC laws. Committee staff noted specifically that they found no evidence of corruption or personal gain in anything done. What they did find was evidence of sloppy record keeping and violations of house rules on fund raising. If you or I did the things he did, using company stationery and postage meters to mail out letters, we would not be arrested and we would not be censured, because no laws were broken. If Rangel were expelled for such behavior, it would represent a complete departure from any action with respect to any member off congress in the past.

dnf777
11-16-2010, 01:27 PM
big difference in an intentional shooting and an accident.

..

Shooting someone under the influence of alcohol is not viewed as an "accident" in the eyes of the law, nor mine.

Its such typical behavior for sheriffs, wherupon hearing of an accidental shooting, to tell people, "hey, get back with us tomorrow".

If you fail to see that, OR you think gunplay after drinking is ok, then there's really no point discussing this further. But for grins, I can't wait to hear what you say!

road kill
11-16-2010, 01:41 PM
Before crying foul on tolerance of criminal behavior, it makes sense to look at the charges involved. Unlike prior such hearings, Rangel was not being charged with corruption, tax evasion or any other violation of the law. He was charged with violating House rules in connection with fund raising for a school of public policy created and named after him at City College in NYC. The actions he took were similar to those taken by Bush, Cheney, Clinton, and their various predecessors in setting up presidential libraries. Rangel was specifically charged with using official stationery and franking privileges to solicit funds for the school, and soliciting contributions for the school from lobbyists. The other charges against him were for incomplete information in his congressional financial disclosure forms (not his tax returns) and for failure to conform with NYC rules concerning use of rent controlled apartments. That too is not a crime. Rather, it simply provides the landlord with an opportunity to evict the tenant without violating NYC laws. Committee staff noted specifically that they found no evidence of corruption or personal gain in anything done. What they did find was evidence of sloppy record keeping and violations of house rules on fund raising. If you or I did the things he did, using company stationery and postage meters to mail out letters, we would not be arrested and we would not be censured, because no laws were broken. If Rangel were expelled for such behavior, it would represent a complete departure from any action with respect to any member off congress in the past.

When was Rangel president???:confused:



RK

road kill
11-16-2010, 01:51 PM
BTW--Genius:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/11/16/charlie-rangel-found-guilty-on-11-counts-of-violating-house-rule/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7C12%7Clink4%7C25713

The Congressional commitee forgot to ask your advice first!!


RK

Eric Johnson
11-16-2010, 01:53 PM
If Rangle is dismissed from the House, the ultimate penalty, his seat will be vacant and he can run again. Chances are, he'd be re-elected.

Unless there is a clear violation of tax law, I'm going to move on.

Eric

Gerry Clinchy
11-16-2010, 03:36 PM
The other charges against him were for incomplete information in his congressional financial disclosure forms (not his tax returns) and for failure to conform with NYC rules concerning use of rent controlled apartments. That too is not a crime. Rather, it simply provides the landlord with an opportunity to evict the tenant without violating NYC laws. Committee staff noted specifically that they found no evidence of corruption or personal gain in anything done. What they did find was evidence of sloppy record keeping and violations of house rules on fund raising.

Using the apartments to live in ... would seem to be personal gain; although the only apartment the committee took issue with was the one (as I understand it) that committee addressed was the one used for his campaign office.

One can make a case for him not getting "personal gain" for the charity he was soliciting money for ... depending on what activities that charity ends up participating in.

And all that cash in the freezer? Certainly, I'd expect large sums of cash legally acquired would be safer in a bank? Nobody seems to be taking about that anymore.

dnf777
11-16-2010, 03:42 PM
\
And all that cash in the freezer? Certainly, I'd expect large sums of cash legally acquired would be safer in a bank? Nobody seems to be taking about that anymore.

Wasn't that the esteemed representative from Louisiana with the money bag and 80k in the freezer?

Just a personal side note....when my divorce was pending, neither my (now) ex or I were living in our house. I was making 100% of the mortgage payments (because she never worked and didn't have a dime except 1/2 of my pay that I pre-emptively decided to pay.

The judge ruled that if I lived in the house, not only would she get alimony, and I would have to pay the mortgage, but I would have to pay her 50% of the fair market rent value each month!!!

Buzz
11-16-2010, 04:00 PM
And all that cash in the freezer? Certainly, I'd expect large sums of cash legally acquired would be safer in a bank? Nobody seems to be taking about that anymore.


Are you talking about Rangel???

Gerry Clinchy
11-16-2010, 04:21 PM
Seems that while Rangel was not found guility of "tax fraud", the committee did find him guilty of "failure to report income to the IRS". I thought that was normally considered fraud ...

They that had correspondence directing that money from the condo rentals should be deposited to his personal account. I'm sure he doesn't do his own tax returns, so that would mean he didn't give that information to his tax preparer.

Gerry Clinchy
11-16-2010, 04:22 PM
Are you talking about Rangel???

Sorry, Buzz ... confused him with Jefferson.

david gibson
11-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Seems that while Rangel was not found guility of "tax fraud", the committee did find him guilty of "failure to report income to the IRS". I thought that was normally considered fraud ...

They that had correspondence directing that money from the condo rentals should be deposited to his personal account. I'm sure he doesn't do his own tax returns, so that would mean he didn't give that information to his tax preparer.

look at all the other tax cheats in positions of power in The Apologists' administration, and look at their history of avoidance of prosecuting blacks for crimes - and you are surprised there are no legal proceedings, only internal? The Apologist and Eric Holder will never let Rangel get prosecuted.

absolutely no surprise to me. he's their kind of man!

starjack
11-16-2010, 05:01 PM
was it ever reported if the guys got their limit on birds......:p:p

Good one LOL;-)

YardleyLabs
11-16-2010, 05:46 PM
BTW--Genius:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/11/16/charlie-rangel-found-guilty-on-11-counts-of-violating-house-rule/?icid=maing%7Cmain5%7C12%7Clink4%7C25713

The Congressional commitee forgot to ask your advice first!!


RK
Is this directed at me? I was aware of their decision before I posted and the description of the charges in the story you linked is consistent with what I described. Nothing in the charges constitutes a crime.

Also, Rangel has never been President but being a President doesn't create new rules for such activities. Politicians have been putting their names on things for years. Being President just makes it easier.

Doc E
11-16-2010, 07:52 PM
It's Gee Dub's fault.



.

sandyg
11-16-2010, 08:24 PM
Changing somebody quoted text, is telling a lie. Notice how I made the same point just before you, without lying.
In fact I bet you had to google Mary Jo just to see what I was talking about because there is no way you could spell
The name of the river on your own!

Why the hate, jackball? You made the same point 4 minutes before me. Did it ever occur to your maple syrup laden head that I was typing while you posted? I fixed your spelling mistakes, genius. How is it lying if I say I changed it and bolded it so there is no guessing?

Ken Bora
11-16-2010, 09:29 PM
Why the hate, jackball? You made the same point 4 minutes before me. Did it ever occur to your maple syrup laden head that I was typing while you posted? I fixed your spelling mistakes, genius. How is it lying if I say I changed it and bolded it so there is no guessing?

I haven’t put my finger on it, it’s just a first impression thing.
You just seem to chafe my satchel. Thank you for the spell check, I type fast and freehand.
‘speshaly when thoughts are a flowin’. I still maintain you had to google Mary Jo
‘cause if I can’t spell Chappaquiddick, you can’t spell Chappaquiddick!!!!:cool::cool:





.

david gibson
11-16-2010, 09:40 PM
Why the hate, jackball? You made the same point 4 minutes before me. Did it ever occur to your maple syrup laden head that I was typing while you posted? I fixed your spelling mistakes, genius. How is it lying if I say I changed it and bolded it so there is no guessing?

dont worry about him sandy, ken has just decided he is the forum schoolmarm and he will tell you what is and isnt appropriate depending on if he agrees with it or not......

Ken Bora
11-16-2010, 09:48 PM
Exactly right!!!!
Why as soon as David realized that, things were much easer for him,
weren’t they David!;-)








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david gibson
11-16-2010, 09:53 PM
Exactly right!!!!
Why as soon as David realized that, things were much easer for him,
weren’t they David!;-)
.

exactly. your incessant stabbing me in the side while pretending to be my friend showed me you were jealous and wanted control. all the while trying to claim i was the bully.

so there you go, you are the official POTUS bully.

thanks for the syrup anyway - you were right! it does go great with our pecans and vanilla ice cream!

Ken Bora
11-16-2010, 09:58 PM
And thank you for your wife’s wonderful cinnamon pecans!
Everyone here should try them, they ROCK!!!!!
Now who can I push face first into the mud next??






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Hoosier
11-16-2010, 10:04 PM
And thank you for your wife’s wonderful cinnamon pecans!
Everyone here should try them, they ROCK!!!!!
Now who can I push face first into the mud next??






.

The last thing I want to see is you fellas mud wrestling

JDogger
11-16-2010, 10:10 PM
And thank you for your wife’s wonderful cinnamon pecans!
Everyone here should try them, they ROCK!!!!!
Now who can I push face first into the mud...


Take your pick...this season never closes. JD

Julie R.
11-17-2010, 12:54 AM
Before crying foul on tolerance of criminal behavior, it makes sense to look at the charges involved. Unlike prior such hearings, Rangel was not being charged with corruption, tax evasion or any other violation of the law. He was charged with violating House rules in connection with fund raising for a school of public policy created and named after him at City College in NYC.

He may not be your definition of a criminal, but he fits the bill for me. And we weren't talking about any criminal trial, I'm well aware how difficult it must be for a panel of his peers to consider business as usual a crime. Rangel is a crook, a liar, a thief, a race-baiter and a tax cheat. Just because Congress doesn't hold criminal court, doesn't mean we (the general public) can't call him what he is. I can't even believe you're defending him! Still roflmao that Gerry thought it was Rangel that had the cash stashed in the freezer. Rangel probably does, too but just forgot which house it was in.

david gibson
11-17-2010, 05:59 AM
He may not be your definition of a criminal, but he fits the bill for me. And we weren't talking about any criminal trial, I'm well aware how difficult it must be for a panel of his peers to consider business as usual a crime. Rangel is a crook, a liar, a thief, a race-baiter and a tax cheat. Just because Congress doesn't hold criminal court, doesn't mean we (the general public) can't call him what he is. I can't even believe you're defending him! Still roflmao that Gerry thought it was Rangel that had the cash stashed in the freezer. Rangel probably does, too but just forgot which house it was in.

or its in his bra... ;-)

notice how yardley uses the term "violating House rules". seems so innocent, doesnt it? maybe he sat on the wrong side of the aisle in a foggy elderly moment, or maybe parked in pelosi's parking spot.

adding the correct terminology - "violating House ethics rules" has a tad bit different meaning, donchya think?

dnf777
11-17-2010, 08:18 AM
The last thing I want to see is you fellas mud wrestling

You've created a mental image that will be very difficult to clear.

Thanks :(

road kill
11-17-2010, 08:48 AM
And thank you for your wife’s wonderful cinnamon pecans!
Everyone here should try them, they ROCK!!!!!
Now who can I push face first into the mud next??






.

I'm your huckleberry!!:D

RK

Gerry Clinchy
11-17-2010, 09:03 AM
Still roflmao that Gerry thought it was Rangel that had the cash stashed in the freezer. Rangel probably does, too but just forgot which house it was in.

My chance to LOL, it gets so easy to confuse which crook/slimeball is which! I'd find it quite plausible that Rangel has cash stashed somewhere, too.

dixidawg
11-17-2010, 09:03 AM
This just in...

Congress has just awarded Rengel the Lifetime Achievement award for being a liar, cheat, crook without ever being punished.

A role model for all politicians....

Julie R.
11-20-2010, 08:31 AM
Saw this cartoon of everyone's favorite crook yesterday and I'm still lmao.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L2yi20l2PRU/TONV9h259vI/AAAAAAAAE34/reqJd7LnDUw/s1600/Cartoon%252520-%252520Don%2527t%252520Touch%252520My%252520Junk%2 521%252520-%252520ALG%252520%2528600%2529.jpg