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road kill
11-17-2010, 06:03 PM
....do NOT discount her.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sarah-palin-thinking-running-president-tells-barbara-walters/story?id=12170631&page=2

You can all pooh pooh her chances, but between her and Obama, she gets my vote!!

Not my #1 choice, but neither was the progressive, McCain.


RK

BonMallari
11-17-2010, 06:43 PM
here is a theory for you conspiracy nuts out there...the states that dont have closed primaries get dems and indy's to vote for Palin to get the nomination giving her a false support and she gets trounced in a general election by double digits..

If the Republican Party is dumb enough to let her grab the nomination, then we have bigger problems than I thought...

Honestly , I really think a lot of the Palin publicity is fueled by those on the left...they would like nothing better than to face her in the election in 2012..they are licking their chops hoping she is the nominee

dnf777
11-17-2010, 08:19 PM
here is a theory for you conspiracy nuts out there...the states that dont have closed primaries get dems and indy's to vote for Palin to get the nomination giving her a false support and she gets trounced in a general election by double digits..

If the Republican Party is dumb enough to let her grab the nomination, then we have bigger problems than I thought...

Honestly , I really think a lot of the Palin publicity is fueled by those on the left...they would like nothing better than to face her in the election in 2012..they are licking their chops hoping she is the nominee

I thought lefties were afraid of her?

road kill
11-17-2010, 08:34 PM
here is a theory for you conspiracy nuts out there...the states that dont have closed primaries get dems and indy's to vote for Palin to get the nomination giving her a false support and she gets trounced in a general election by double digits..

If the Republican Party is dumb enough to let her grab the nomination, then we have bigger problems than I thought...

Honestly , I really think a lot of the Palin publicity is fueled by those on the left...they would like nothing better than to face her in the election in 2012..they are licking their chops hoping she is the nominee

So....you would vote for Obama over Palin??


RK

Franco
11-17-2010, 08:38 PM
The GOP knows if they ran her against Obama that she would lose in a landslide. So, I don't think the Repubs are that dumb.

I agree with Bon that the Dems are doing all they can to keep her in the limelight. They know it makes the Rebublicans look stooopid. Best thing she could do for the GOP is to keep her mouth shut.

There just aren't enough Tea Baggers around to get her anywhere close to the White House. The GOP should learn from what happened in Nevada and publicly disown her because the Dems will use Palin against the GOP in the elections.

depittydawg
11-17-2010, 08:49 PM
....do NOT discount her.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sarah-palin-thinking-running-president-tells-barbara-walters/story?id=12170631&page=2

You can all pooh pooh her chances, but between her and Obama, she gets my vote!!

Not my #1 choice, but neither was the progressive, McCain.


RK

The GOP can do a lot better. They will need to. Winning a few local elections is a different ballgame than winning a national one. If the GOP doesn't find a moderate to put forward in 2012, they will lose again.

Juli H
11-17-2010, 11:55 PM
Don't you all start in on the 'Palin is as dumb as a rock' diatribe :)...I happened to have graduated from the same high school she did...and I'm not all that dumb... LOL!

Seriously - I would rather see Palin stay where she is..working the sidelines and creating support amongst those with conservative values.....There would be too much division if she were to throw her hat in for the POTUS race - she would not stand a chance in 'hell' of winning...I don't even think I would vote for her...


Juli

BonMallari
11-18-2010, 04:03 AM
So....you would vote for Obama over Palin??


RK

Dont even joke about that scenario...No I would vote for a libertarian candidate before Re electing the current POTUS...

starjack
11-18-2010, 04:14 AM
The GOP can do a lot better. They will need to. Winning a few local elections is a different ballgame than winning a national one. If the GOP doesn't find a moderate to put forward in 2012, they will lose again.

A FEW???:rolleyes:

Clay Rogers
11-18-2010, 06:20 AM
I like Sarah Palin alot, but I don't think she can lead this country. I hope the party chooses someone that will have a legit chance at beating Obama, because Palin isn't it. I hope they go with someone like Huckebee, Romney or someone like them.

dnf777
11-18-2010, 08:06 AM
I like Sarah Palin alot, but I don't think she can lead this country. I hope the party chooses someone that will have a legit chance at beating Obama, because Palin isn't it. I hope they go with someone like Huckebee, Romney or someone like them.

Just heard an interesting rumor.............Bloomberg/Jeb as independents.

Would lock NY and FL. That leaves California, and Bloomberg has polled reasonably well there in the past. (only opinion polls, of course)

Joe S.
11-18-2010, 08:15 AM
So....you would vote for Obama over Palin??


RK

I would vote for you over Palin, and THAT is saying something.

Just Sayin' Regards,

Joe S.

road kill
11-18-2010, 08:33 AM
I would vote for you over Palin, and THAT is saying something.

Just Sayin' Regards,

Joe S.


So.....you WOULD vote for Obama over Palin?

Original question unanswered regards......

RK

Roger Perry
11-18-2010, 08:34 AM
So....you would vote for Obama over Palin??


RK

RK, you would vote for Goofy and Dopey if they were on the Republican ticket. OOPS, you did;)

M&K's Retrievers
11-18-2010, 08:43 AM
RK, you would vote for Goofy and Dopey if they were on the Republican ticket. OOPS, you did;)

No, I'm afraid you have that distinction.

road kill
11-18-2010, 05:55 PM
RK, you would vote for Goofy and Dopey if they were on the Republican ticket. OOPS, you did;)
If the opposition was Obama....YES!!
But notice, none will answer.

Palin or Obama???:D


RK

Cody Covey
11-18-2010, 06:32 PM
A FEW???:rolleyes:Number of changed seats was 608 to the republican side total. MANY were on a state level which is what matters in presidential elections.

Franco
11-18-2010, 07:03 PM
If the opposition was Obama....YES!!
But notice, none will answer.

Palin or Obama???:D


RK

If that were the choice than the GOP is in much more trouble then I had thought.

Given that choice, I would not vote!

JDogger
11-18-2010, 07:57 PM
If that were the choice than the GOP is in much more trouble then I had thought.

Given that choice, I would not vote!

Given rk's limited choices, I would not be happy with my choices, but I would never, not vote. JD

depittydawg
11-18-2010, 10:40 PM
So.....you WOULD vote for Obama over Palin?

Original question unanswered regards......

RK

Absolutely! And I don't like Obama!

M&K's Retrievers
11-19-2010, 12:16 AM
Absolutely! And I don't like Obama!

That figures.

Goose
11-19-2010, 11:25 AM
I'd vote for Bristol over the Imam Obama.

menmon
11-19-2010, 12:01 PM
I'd vote for Bristol over the Imam Obama.

Lets see what these newly elected republicans do for you and then lets have this conversation. If you are honest with it, you won't want any part of them either.

Palin is just a loud mouth that knows certain sound bits that pump the right up. She is just a bunch of ra ra...nothing else. But I do encourage you to make her your nominne. Everyone will say they voted for her but Obama will get another term. See the real republicans are smart enough not to elect her.

road kill
11-19-2010, 12:04 PM
Lets see what these newly elected republicans do for you and then lets have this conversation. If you are honest with it, you won't want any part of them either.

Palin is just a loud mouth that knows certain sound bits that pump the right up. She is just a bunch of ra ra...nothing else. But I do encourage you to make her your nominne. Everyone will say they voted for her but Obama will get another term. See the real republicans are smart enough not to elect her.
Let's see if "real" Democrats have enough sense to not re-elect Obama.


RK

sinned
11-21-2010, 10:37 AM
the office of President is a JOB, not a popularity contest or beauty pageant.

i want the person who is the most QUALIFIED in the position.

example- palin, like bushII, has not demonstrated basic logic or the capacity for complex thoughts.

on that basis alone, yes, Obama gets my vote. sad but true.

M&K's Retrievers
11-21-2010, 11:39 AM
Obama has "demonstrated basic logic or the capacity for complex thoughts". Give me a break.

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 11:41 AM
That figures.

So you're saying you would vote for Palin. Not surprising.

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 11:46 AM
the office of President is a JOB, not a popularity contest or beauty pageant.

i want the person who is the most QUALIFIED in the position.

example- palin, like bushII, has not demonstrated basic logic or the capacity for complex thoughts.

on that basis alone, yes, Obama gets my vote. sad but true.

I don't know about that. She knows which side of the Bering Strait Russia is on. Of course I doubt she could recite the name of the water passage on demand.

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 11:47 AM
Let's see if "real" Democrats have enough sense to not re-elect Obama.


RK

Unfortunately, 2nd term presidents are so entrenched that ousting by their own party is impossible. I can't think of an example of it ever happening.

david gibson
11-21-2010, 11:48 AM
So you're saying you would vote for Palin. Not surprising.

i would too, way before obama, and here's why:

presidents base their decisions after consulting with multitudes of advisors. palin would have far better advisers, not a bunch of tax cheats with histories of sedition and admission to honoring communists like mao and che.

BonMallari
11-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Unfortunately, 2nd term presidents are so entrenched that ousting by their own party is impossible. I can't think of an example of it ever happening.

1968- Lyndon B Johnson- " I will not seek nor will I accept the nomination...." his popularity was so low because of his ineptness of the war in Viet Nam and the domestic unrest in the country that he would have been trounced in the election, no doubt he was pushed out, in fact if I have my history correct LBJ got beat in the first state primary...had RFK not been killed, he might have beat Nixon

M&K's Retrievers
11-21-2010, 01:26 PM
So you're saying you would vote for Palin. Not surprising.

As my choice of preference, no. As opposed to Obama, of course. I can't think of anyone that could entice me vote for Obama.

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 02:29 PM
i would too, way before obama, and here's why:

presidents base their decisions after consulting with multitudes of advisors. palin would have far better advisers, not a bunch of tax cheats with histories of sedition and admission to honoring communists like mao and che.

Yeah right. Just like Bush had all those good advisors. We can always rely on Republicans, no matter who they are. Just try to remember something. Obama has failed to clean up a mess. Bush and the Republicans made the mess.

M&K's Retrievers
11-21-2010, 02:33 PM
Yeah right. Just like Bush had all those good advisors. We can always rely on Republicans, no matter who they are. Just try to remember something. Obama has failed to clean up a mess. Bush and the Republicans made the mess.

All by themselves? I don't think so, Tim.

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 02:38 PM
1968- Lyndon B Johnson- " I will not seek nor will I accept the nomination...." his popularity was so low because of his ineptness of the war in Viet Nam and the domestic unrest in the country that he would have been trounced in the election, no doubt he was pushed out, in fact if I have my history correct LBJ got beat in the first state primary...had RFK not been killed, he might have beat Nixon

Lot of ifs there. No doubt RFK would have made a great President. Yes LBJ stepped down. I respected the man for that. He new the nation needed another leader and accepted it. But I haven't seen any evidence that he was forced out by his own party. Somehow, I don't see Obama making that decision.
Looking back to that election in 68, Nixon walked into quite a mess. I'd say the quagmire he inherited from LBJ was almost as bad as the mess Bush left Obama in 2008.

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 02:51 PM
As my choice of preference, no. As opposed to Obama, of course. I can't think of anyone that could entice me vote for Obama.

The failure of Obama was that he didn't push his agenda. His is a failure of leadership, willingness or skill to move congress. Even with those shortcoming, the nation is much better off today than it was when he took office. There is no debating that on a sensible level. Obama has earned a mark of about a C grade. Bush was no doubt an F and is being judged as such by history. And you're willing to go with another likely F performer. Why?

david gibson
11-21-2010, 04:03 PM
Yeah right. Just like Bush had all those good advisors. We can always rely on Republicans, no matter who they are. Just try to remember something. Obama has failed to clean up a mess. Bush and the Republicans made the mess.

and the democrat congress had nothiong to do with it.....:rolleyes:

david gibson
11-21-2010, 04:05 PM
The failure of Obama was that he didn't push his agenda. His is a failure of leadership, willingness or skill to move congress. Even with those shortcoming, the nation is much better off today than it was when he took office. There is no debating that on a sensible level. Obama has earned a mark of about a C grade. Bush was no doubt an F and is being judged as such by history. And you're willing to go with another likely F performer. Why?

that C is mighty generous. it will be a few years before the true damage he has caused all comes to the surface.

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 04:51 PM
and the democrat congress had nothiong to do with it.....:rolleyes:

Couple of thoughts here. The damage done by the Bush administration (and Clinton administration) was in place prior to the congress changing hands in 2006. I have no love lost for this and the next failed congressional sessions. The congress deserves blame from 2006 - 2008 for not standing up to the Bush regime, and taking impeachment of a criminal President "off the table". From 2008 - 2010 the Senate gets the brunt of the responsibility for being completely spineless in its failure to enact the changes that were (and still are) needed.
So where are we? We obviously can't trust the Republican Party. And we have no reason to believe we can trust the Democratic party. Any suggestions?

depittydawg
11-21-2010, 04:54 PM
that C is mighty generous. it will be a few years before the true damage he has caused all comes to the surface.

You could be right. Clinton looked good in 2000. But many of the changes made by the Republican congress and endorsed by Clinton proved to be our undoing in the 2007 financial crash. But then again, that C might improve too. Have to wait and see.

M&K's Retrievers
11-21-2010, 06:03 PM
that C is mighty generous. it will be a few years before the true damage he has caused all comes to the surface.

DS must be grading on the curve. No way Obama deserves better than an F. He has flunked in all areas.

david gibson
11-22-2010, 07:35 AM
You could be right. Clinton looked good in 2000. But many of the changes made by the Republican congress and endorsed by Clinton proved to be our undoing in the 2007 financial crash. But then again, that C might improve too. Have to wait and see.

ohhhh, again, its always the other guys fault. the democrats can do no wrong in your eyes can they?:rolleyes:

BrianW
11-22-2010, 09:22 AM
The failure of Obama was that he didn't push his agenda. His is a failure of leadership, willingness or skill to move congress. Even with those shortcoming, the nation is much better off today than it was when he took office. There is no debating that on a sensible level, Obama has earned a mark of about a C grade. Bush was no doubt an F and is being judged as such by history. And you're willing to go with another likely F performer. Why?

Jmtc but the "The failure of Obama" IS his agenda.
He was able to mask most of what he is thanks to his practice at it from the age of about 13 as he states in his book, and what did get out was overlooked/disregarded by the electorate due to the same type of "certain sound bits that pump the left up" just as you attribute to Palin. "His failure of leadership" is partly due to the radicals that he has surrounded himself with, that reflect his true mindset, and his unveiling of the real PBO once he got in office, trying to be the man his father never was. But it's also due to his fundamentally flawed viewpoint towards the Constitution and due process of law.

If you really believe that "the nation is much better off today than it was when he took office" :shock:, then there is "no debating" with you. A "C"? Only if one thinks the alphabet starts with "Z"!
The People may have taken the shovel out of PBO's hands for now and "stopped the digging", but keeping him in office in 2012 will be like putting him in a track hoe and there's no telling what damage he could do with that.
I don't think you'd recognize this country in 2016 and "the shining city" definitely wouldn't be on the hill anymore.

depittydawg
11-22-2010, 11:31 AM
ohhhh, again, its always the other guys fault. the democrats can do no wrong in your eyes can they?:rolleyes:

Did you read the post David? Do you read any of my posts or just react. As I stated, CLINTON ENDORSED THE CHANGES that were made during the Republican Congress of the nineties. How many times have you read my posts that are critical of President Obama? How many times have you heard me criticize Harry Reid and the democratic controlled senate? I don't pass blame. I simply acknowledge failure. And it comes from both sides of the aisle more often than not.

depittydawg
11-22-2010, 11:37 AM
Jmtc but the "The failure of Obama" IS his agenda.
He was able to mask most of what he is thanks to his practice at it from the age of about 13 as he states in his book, and what did get out was overlooked/disregarded by the electorate due to the same type of "certain sound bits that pump the left up" just as you attribute to Palin. "His failure of leadership" is partly due to the radicals that he has surrounded himself with, that reflect his true mindset, and his unveiling of the real PBO once he got in office, trying to be the man his father never was. But it's also due to his fundamentally flawed viewpoint towards the Constitution and due process of law.

If you really believe that "the nation is much better off today than it was when he took office" :shock:, then there is "no debating" with you. A "C"? Only if one thinks the alphabet starts with "Z"!
The People may have taken the shovel out of PBO's hands for now and "stopped the digging", but keeping him in office in 2012 will be like putting him in a track hoe and there's no telling what damage he could do with that.
I don't think you'd recognize this country in 2016 and "the shining city" definitely wouldn't be on the hill anymore.

Can you give an example of how the economy is worse off today than in Jan 2008? How about the Stock Market? Foreign policy? How about the Financial industry? As I stated, many things have not improved to the extent we would like. It seems the right wingers argue from a base of emotionalism rather that a basis in fact. If you can supply some areas where we are measurably worse off today than Jan 2008 I'll listen. I've just sighted several that have improved.

dnf777
11-22-2010, 01:19 PM
Can you give an example of how the economy is worse off today than in Jan 2008?

Many people to this day do not realize how close we actually were to a total collapse of the banking infrastructure and monetary system. If this administration accomplishes NOTHING else, bailing out the financial system should define his legacy. And to give credit where its due, the outgoing Bush administration started the ball rolling during the transition phase with the incoming President.

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Many people to this day do not realize how close we actually were to a total collapse of the banking infrastructure and monetary system. If this administration accomplishes NOTHING else, bailing out the financial system should define his legacy. And to give credit where its due, the outgoing Bush administration started the ball rolling during the transition phase with the incoming President.

Seriously????? He bailed out what???? What Obama did bail out was a few select companies..... THATS IT........ Did he save some jobs? Yep...... Did he do the world a favor.... that has yet to be determined. With interest rates where they are, we have a serious risk of inflation. Which, by the way, could be worse yet than letting those businesses fail. Fannie and Freddie is far from over with..... that could be another tragedy..... I could go on forever...... and when whatever happens..... THAT SHOULD DEFINE HIS LEGACY. He has dug a very large hole..... if the US can climb out of it, taht will determine his success.

Buzz
11-22-2010, 03:18 PM
With interest rates where they are, we have a serious risk of inflation. Which, by the way, could be worse yet than letting those businesses fail.


Seriously? When do you think we'll see that start kicking in?

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Seriously? When do you think we'll see that start kicking in?

I dont even know how to respond to that?????? Hasnt gas gone up, utilities, tuition, groceries, etc..... again... I could go on forever...... Inflation is everywhere..... and its gonna get worse! But all is right in Buzzland, apparently?

depittydawg
11-22-2010, 03:38 PM
I dont even know how to respond to that?????? Hasnt gas gone up, utilities, tuition, groceries, etc..... again... I could go on forever...... Inflation is everywhere..... and its gonna get worse! But all is right in Buzzland, apparently?

Ahhhhh..... gas, groceries, utilities, no they haven't gone up. So you're an inflation hawk. The fed has certainly not been short of your ilk for the last 25 years. Inflation will not occur until wages increase. And that ain't happening anytime soon. Not so long as Wall Street is running the show.

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 03:44 PM
Ahhhhh..... gas, groceries, utilities, no they haven't gone up. So you're an inflation hawk. The fed has certainly not been short of your ilk for the last 25 years. Inflation will not occur until wages increase. And that ain't happening anytime soon. Not so long as Wall Street is running the show.

Im not an inflation hawk...... I am just stating whats happening to me. I assumed it was happening elsewhere..... silly me. I will take your word as law and sleep well tonite, knowing DD said everythings ok.......

dnf777
11-22-2010, 03:50 PM
Seriously????? He bailed out what???? What Obama did bail out was a few select companies..... THATS IT........ Did he save some jobs? Yep...... Did he do the world a favor.... that has yet to be determined. With interest rates where they are, we have a serious risk of inflation. Which, by the way, could be worse yet than letting those businesses fail. Fannie and Freddie is far from over with..... that could be another tragedy..... I could go on forever...... and when whatever happens..... THAT SHOULD DEFINE HIS LEGACY. He has dug a very large hole..... if the US can climb out of it, taht will determine his success.

When you look at Obama's contribution to the national debt, compared to anyone with the name Reagan or Bush, it is a drop in the bucket. Its still too much, I agree, but please direct your outrage at those truly responsible!

As for inflation and interest rates, currently there is more concern for a deflationary economy. You need to read more.

Do you have bank accounts you write checks out of, or use an ATM card? How 'bout direct deposits? That entire system was in jeopardy two years ago. Again, read some more about it.

I'm not saying Obama is the answer to everything....far from it. But he did save us from the last administration's near miss with total collapse of America as we know it.

dnf777
11-22-2010, 03:51 PM
I dont even know how to respond to that?????? Hasnt gas gone up, utilities, tuition, groceries, etc..... again... I could go on forever...... Inflation is everywhere..... and its gonna get worse! But all is right in Buzzland, apparently?

Gas is nowhere near where it was under the last administration. You really need to check your facts. And gasoline is a poor indicator of the state of the economy. Far too many mysterious factors (hmmmm) go into "fixing" gas prices.

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 03:55 PM
When you look at Obama's contribution to the national debt, compared to anyone with the name Reagan or Bush, it is a drop in the bucket. Its still too much, I agree, but please direct your outrage at those truly responsible!

I didnt direct outrage at anyone.....I just aint sold on the fact that he has fixed anything.... but thanks for the scolding

As for inflation and interest rates, currently there is more concern for a deflationary economy. You need to read more.
Actually..... you need to quit listening to radio and news and talk to an economist.

Do you have bank accounts you write checks out of, or use an ATM card? How 'bout direct deposits? That entire system was in jeopardy two years ago. Again, read some more about it.

The "system" was never in any real danger..... But obama wants to tax it now.... with a 1% transaction tax.....read up on that.

I'm not saying Obama is the answer to everything....far from it. But he did save us from the last administration's near miss with total collapse of America as we know it.

That I wont argue with.... but to blame it on the last administration may be a bit of a stretch also.

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 03:58 PM
Gas is nowhere near where it was under the last administration. You really need to check your facts. And gasoline is a poor indicator of the state of the economy. Far too many mysterious factors (hmmmm) go into "fixing" gas prices.

I agree gas is a poor measure.... sorry for including it. And I assure you, the administration has nothing to do with the price of gasoline....... you need to seriously check your facts....LOL So can anyone mention some necessities that have gone down in price...... ie. deflation????? I cant think of any. Shocker.

dnf777
11-22-2010, 04:02 PM
Actually..... you need to quit listening to radio and news and talk to an economist.


The info in my post DID come from a conversation I had with an economist. Well, he has his MBA and runs a highly successful financial planning and investing house in town. He despises Obama more than DG, but admits the actions of the combined Bush/Obama teams in 2008 saved us from calamity beyond what anyone under the age of 80 has ever seen. He also begrudgedly admits, as much as he was opposed to them, the banking and auto bail outs have proven successful, at least from a financial point of view as an investor.

Buzz
11-22-2010, 04:09 PM
Actually..... you need to quit listening to radio and news and talk to an economist.


Can you refer me to a good one?

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 04:09 PM
Actually..... you need to quit listening to radio and news and talk to an economist.


The info in my post DID come from a conversation I had with an economist. Well, he has his MBA and runs a highly successful financial planning and investing house in town. He despises Obama more than DG, but admits the actions of the combined Bush/Obama teams in 2008 saved us from calamity beyond what anyone under the age of 80 has ever seen. He also begrudgedly admits, as much as he was opposed to them, the banking and auto bail outs have proven successful, at least from a financial point of view as an investor.

I dont disagree with any of this...... but inflation is coming.... to some degree.... which is yet to be determined. The US had their little TIPS sale last month.... and they ended up with a negative yield..... for the first time in history....... the Fed will print money and force inflation....... its the effect that no one is sure of...... They dont know if it is gonna cause inflation, or hyperinflation........ Look at the price of oil...... Gas is gonna get expensive..... quickly! Mark my words. All energies are gonna climb, and your groceries will follow. Trust me, I hope I am wrong...... but all signs point to inflation.

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 04:15 PM
Can you refer me to a good one?

Um......let me think about it.......











NO.

Buzz
11-22-2010, 04:48 PM
but inflation is coming.... to some degree.... which is yet to be determined. The US had their little TIPS sale last month.... and they ended up with a negative yield..... for the first time in history.......


I posted an article about this a week or two ago. Its probably a waste of time for me to chase down the links to the online versions because I seriously doubt anyone around here cares to read them anyhow... I saw it in my November 6th issue of "The Economist." In it you'll find this:


This time round, however, negative real yields arguably reflect optimism that the Federal Reserve, via the policy of quantitative easing, can deliver a good economic outcome and avoid the extremes of deflation or hyperinflation. The bond issue is also good news for the American government. There is no sign yet that investors are panicking over the size of the fiscal deficit or the lack of any medium-term austerity plan.

From what I saw, folks who bought those bonds will break even if inflation is at 1.5%.

http://www.economist.com/node/17420106?story_id=17420106


At the same time I posted this article about QE2. It might be an interesting read for you too, or not...

http://www.economist.com/node/17417742?story_id=17417742

dnf777
11-22-2010, 04:54 PM
I dont disagree with any of this...... but inflation is coming.... to some degree.... which is yet to be determined. The US had their little TIPS sale last month.... and they ended up with a negative yield..... for the first time in history....... the Fed will print money and force inflation....... its the effect that no one is sure of...... They dont know if it is gonna cause inflation, or hyperinflation........ Look at the price of oil...... Gas is gonna get expensive..... quickly! Mark my words. All energies are gonna climb, and your groceries will follow. Trust me, I hope I am wrong...... but all signs point to inflation.

I'll return the favor....and agree with you.
While economists are talking of deflation, and it has occurred to a small degree, I in my naive understanding of economics, cannot fathom how INFLATION will not possibly occur, the way we are printing (devaluing) the dollar. In a world economy, I can only hope all the others screw up more than we do, and somehow that will make us "ok".

depittydawg
11-22-2010, 05:39 PM
Im not an inflation hawk...... I am just stating whats happening to me. I assumed it was happening elsewhere..... silly me. I will take your word as law and sleep well tonite, knowing DD said everythings ok.......

Look at the price of real estate. Its still way down everywhere. Look at all the empty retail space. Look at all the empty manufacturing space. I've never seen anything like this. Well maybe once in California. But never in Oregon. I can only imagine what its like in Ca, Texas and the other heavily populated states now. BTW, I never said everything was ok. On the contrary. Everything is NOT ok. I just don't think Inflation is a concern right now. And I don't think inflation will be a concern, except in some specific monopolized industries (for example healthcare, education, possibly energy again) until wages increase in America. Hopefully I'm wrong; but I don't see that happening soon.

depittydawg
11-22-2010, 05:45 PM
That I wont argue with.... but to blame it on the last administration may be a bit of a stretch also.

I agree with you. The last administration is NOT all to blame. Although they did through gasoline on the burning fires. Some put the big move in the wrong direction with Nixon getting off the gold standard. Others blame Reagan for ushering in the era of deficits. And of course Clinton gets credit for the deregulation of just about everything in his term. Looking back, I'd say the Bush Sr administration was about the only one who didn't seem to do something to make things worse...

troy schwab
11-22-2010, 06:41 PM
Buzz....interesting economist article and I agree with it completely. ....problem is they ignore a simple fact. When the dollar goes down....oil goes up. When oil goes up...price of gasoline goes up.....therefore transportation costs go up which negate all of the price savings in goods and disposable finances. ....sorry so sloppy typing on the phone

dnf777
11-22-2010, 08:00 PM
Looking back, I'd say the Bush Sr administration was about the only one who didn't seem to do something to make things worse...

Doesn't he have the distinction of being the one who introduced us to NAFTA? (not that I would hang that all on him, every president since has supported it..)

depittydawg
11-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Doesn't he have the distinction of being the one who introduced us to NAFTA? (not that I would hang that all on him, every president since has supported it..)

I stand corrected. Although it was Clinton who pushed and signed for it after the election. Both candidates were strongly in favor of it.

BonMallari
11-23-2010, 05:17 AM
according to a CNN poll: heads up against Pres Obama, Palin gets dusted 52%-44%...do you really want to risk 4 more years of BHO on the shoulders of Sarah Palin...NOT ME

menmon
11-23-2010, 11:39 AM
I'll return the favor....and agree with you.
While economists are talking of deflation, and it has occurred to a small degree, I in my naive understanding of economics, cannot fathom how INFLATION will not possibly occur, the way we are printing (devaluing) the dollar. In a world economy, I can only hope all the others screw up more than we do, and somehow that will make us "ok".

There is a financial model called the Fisher Model that says real rate (purchasing power) must be equal or money will chase the higher real rate, thus equalizing them. Therefore when other countries have higher real rates relative to your currency, the value of your currency will decrease because to have the same real rate as the their country they have to get more of your currency. Thus making the diffence between the real rate and the stated rate inflation.

So the thing to keep in mind is what other countries are doing when determining dollar value and inflation. Everything that has occured for the last 10 years is inflationary, but as long as the rest of the world is doing the same stuff we are inflation will not show itself. Now if europe rasies their real rates, thus reducing their money supply, and we don't. You will see inflation. Thing to keep in mind, the fed is going to keep this liquidity in the market until they see inflation, and at that time, they will raise fed funds and sell bonds to absorb the liquidity. It might not be good for politicians that want to get elected or reelected at the time they do it, but that is the reason the fed is appointed and does not answer to anyone. So that they can do what is right for the overall economy, not keep interest rates low because it gets someone reelected.

BrianW
11-24-2010, 09:23 AM
Can you give an example of how the economy is worse off today than in Jan 2008? If you can supply some areas where we are measurably worse off today than Jan 2008 I'll listen. I've just sighted several that have improved.

Just some;
Food stamp applications - Up (More Oregonians on them than ever, up approx 200,000 since 2008)
Unemployment - Up (Oregon's has just about doubled since '08 )
Mortgage foreclosures - Up
Discretionary income - Down

As you note - commercial real estate vacancies remain high in most markets. From recent headlines - Cotton prices predicted to rise 30%.

Stock market being up doesn't do most folks much good if they can't afford to be in it. My wife works in payroll at one of the area's largest employers. The number of people that have had to reduce contributions to/pull out of retirement plans just so they can eat or make their house payment has skyrocketed. Same with cashing in earned "paid time off". HR says that they get hundreds of applications for every opening, even the more menial ones like housekeeping, lots from out of state (like OR). The number of people that are "overqualified" is stunning but they are desperate for work.

I could cite more but it's clear that you're set in your views.

david gibson
11-24-2010, 10:02 AM
according to a CNN poll: heads up against Pres Obama, Palin gets dusted 52%-44%...do you really want to risk 4 more years of BHO on the shoulders of Sarah Palin...NOT ME

no worries here, thats what the long primary process is for. everything comes out of the pockets.

Buzz
11-24-2010, 10:23 AM
no worries here, thats what the long primary process is for. everything comes out of the pockets.

Good luck with that. Palin's "fans" are hardcore. I think they'll show up in big numbers.

Buzz
11-24-2010, 11:54 AM
There is a financial model called the Fisher Model that says real rate (purchasing power) must be equal or money will chase the higher real rate, thus equalizing them. Therefore when other countries have higher real rates relative to your currency, the value of your currency will decrease because to have the same real rate as the their country they have to get more of your currency. Thus making the diffence between the real rate and the stated rate inflation.

So the thing to keep in mind is what other countries are doing when determining dollar value and inflation. Everything that has occured for the last 10 years is inflationary, but as long as the rest of the world is doing the same stuff we are inflation will not show itself. Now if europe rasies their real rates, thus reducing their money supply, and we don't. You will see inflation. Thing to keep in mind, the fed is going to keep this liquidity in the market until they see inflation, and at that time, they will raise fed funds and sell bonds to absorb the liquidity. It might not be good for politicians that want to get elected or reelected at the time they do it, but that is the reason the fed is appointed and does not answer to anyone. So that they can do what is right for the overall economy, not keep interest rates low because it gets someone reelected.


I looked up the Fisher Model. Interesting... The Fisher Model with Certainty makes some sense to me, but after that it gets dicey. No wonder math, science, and engineering majors are getting job offers on Wall Street. You need a decent math background to get through that stuff.

Happy Thanksgiving!