PDA

View Full Version : N Korea Attacks S Korea



road kill
11-23-2010, 07:38 AM
Hopefully Obama can appease them and stop this before it gets even uglier.

If there are any Christians left on this site, pray....NOW!!

And you "middle of the road independeants" do what ever it is you do to help stop this.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101123/wl_afp/nkoreaskoreamilitarynuclearweapons_20101123092327

stan b

subroc
11-23-2010, 08:09 AM
blame former President George W. Bush.

dnf777
11-23-2010, 08:42 AM
This is really beneath both of you. This is potentially a very serious situation developing. I would think you would offer the Commander in Chief the same support that democrats offered GHW Bush when Iraq invaded a friendly nation and put our reaction in the spotlight, possibly affecting our troops.

This could be a powder-keg that just had a match dropped on it. There's more to worry about than petty name-calling and political opportunity.

troy schwab
11-23-2010, 09:15 AM
This is really beneath both of you. This is potentially a very serious situation developing. I would think you would offer the Commander in Chief the same support that democrats offered GHW Bush when Iraq invaded a friendly nation and put our reaction in the spotlight, possibly affecting our troops.

This could be a powder-keg that just had a match dropped on it. There's more to worry about than petty name-calling and political opportunity.

For once.... I am in total agreement with DNF...... holy crap.......

road kill
11-23-2010, 09:18 AM
This is really beneath both of you. This is potentially a very serious situation developing. I would think you would offer the Commander in Chief the same support that democrats offered GHW Bush when Iraq invaded a friendly nation and put our reaction in the spotlight, possibly affecting our troops.

This could be a powder-keg that just had a match dropped on it. There's more to worry about than petty name-calling and political opportunity.
You are so above it all.......you have entered sophomoric humor into many subjects that others are very serious about.

Let's see what happens here.
I am guessing blame and appeasement will be to the fore.....quickly.



RK

depittydawg
11-23-2010, 09:52 AM
Hopefully Obama can appease them and stop this before it gets even uglier.

If there are any Christians left on this site, pray....NOW!!

And you "middle of the road independeants" do what ever it is you do to help stop this.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101123/wl_afp/nkoreaskoreamilitarynuclearweapons_20101123092327

stan b

Well I'll jump into this right now. South Korea is capable of defending themselves. American's don't need to die trying to defend the Korean Peninsula. Nor do American taxpayers need to fork out hundreds of millions in military aid to them.

Doc E
11-23-2010, 10:41 AM
My wife is from South Korea. She has said, for the 42 years that we have been married, that it is long past time to kick the North's azz.
My wife is very conservative and extremely pro-America & pro-Korea.

The thing we need to remember is that N. Korea has the 2nd largest ground force Army in the world.................... My wife (and I) say it's long past time that we quit giving them food and aid in trade for their empty promises.

Yes, the USA is spread pretty thin around the world, but I believe that we have somewhere around 50,000 troops in S. Korea right now.

It's time to kick azz and put an end to to the dictatorship of the North for good. They are getting closer to having Nukes by the minute (2000 centrifuges) and that little $#!+ dictator would have no qualms about using Nukes if he had them ready to go.



.

dnf777
11-23-2010, 10:45 AM
Yes, the USA is spread pretty thin around the world, but I believe that we have somewhere around 50,000 troops in S. Korea right now.


.

Maybe a little incentive to get the heck out of Iraq/Afghanistan!?

Goose
11-23-2010, 11:17 AM
I honestly couldn't tell you which side of this exchange President War Monger supports but if I had to guess it would be the norks since Obama's marxist liberation theology is more in tune with Dear Leader Kim Jung Il. No doubt his economic team and all the Krugmanites/keynesians are excited about another war so as to help our 'sour' economy. Nothing like the carnage a good war brings to help boost GDP. We can sell a ton of sophisticated computer technology to the North Koreans to help them boost their nuclear program.

We live in Cuba now.

Bubba
11-23-2010, 11:25 AM
What this really boils down to is that it marks the beginning of winter. The NK gooberment knows that due to the usual crop failures and failed policies that they have NOWHERE near the food to feed their people for the winter. So they need 2 things- a common enemy and the attention of the civilized world. Rattle the sabers and make all kinds of wild threats and sure enough the Western gooberments will crater and send them food at little or no cost. Been an annual event for nearly 50 years- worked every time.

Bidness as usual regards

Bubba

duckheads
11-23-2010, 11:35 AM
I heard that we strongly condemned N Korea for this act. Obama is probably going to the UN now to get more sanctions against N. Korea. If I was N Korea I would be scared!

Buzz
11-23-2010, 05:29 PM
Maybe a little incentive to get the heck out of Iraq/Afghanistan!?

I heard on the radio today that there was a poll done recently in Afghanistan. It showed that 98% of the people there never heard of 9-11 and are totally unaware of the event and that it has anything to do with the US forces being there.

Sweet!

dnf777
11-23-2010, 06:00 PM
I heard on the radio today that there was a poll done recently in Afghanistan. It showed that 98% of the people there never heard of 9-11 and are totally unaware of the event and that it has anything to do with the US forces being there.

Sweet!

Yeah, lots of chatter today on the radio. I heard a little different...I heard only 8% of Afghan adults ever heard of 9-11. Same point.

If they haven't heard of 911, they're probably have other more malignant ideas about what we're doing there. That is a total failure of State (and to the extent they should be involved, the military) to win the minds of the Afghan people. The "Three Cups of Tea" author made it clear how to win this war on terror, and we're ignoring his advice.

BonMallari
11-23-2010, 08:15 PM
I heard on the radio today that there was a poll done recently in Afghanistan. It showed that 98% of the people there never heard of 9-11 and are totally unaware of the event and that it has anything to do with the US forces being there.

Sweet!

not disputing that they havent heard of 9/11....but I would question the validity of the poll...what did someone go on camelback and ask the feudal warlords if they had heard about it...its not like they have Verizon or Sprint towers on every mountain, and I would guess that the 4g iPhone hasnt made it to the tribal highlands let alone the streets of the capitol..;-)

road kill
11-24-2010, 06:36 AM
not disputing that they havent heard of 9/11....but I would question the validity of the poll...what did someone go on camelback and ask the feudal warlords if they had heard about it...its not like they have Verizon or Sprint towers on every mountain, and I would guess that the 4g iPhone hasnt made it to the tribal highlands let alone the streets of the capitol..;-)


Hey, Bon,

"There's lies, damned lies and statistics!!!";-)


RK

BrianW
11-24-2010, 08:14 AM
South Korea is capable of defending themselves. American's don't need to die trying to defend the Korean Peninsula.



The thing we need to remember is that N. Korea has the 2nd largest ground force Army in the world

When I was in SK in the winter of 2007-08, I had the chance to speak to quite a few GI's stationed up by "the line" during my trips into Seoul/Itaewon. The predominant opinion was that, if the North did a blitzkrieg attack, they had about 30 minutes to live. Our troops are basically a "speedbump" designed to slow the DPRK down just enough to weapons in the air.

But you've got to remember just how close Seoul, Inchon etc is to the North. Even without that blitz, the devastation to industry & infrastructure that could be caused by just by artillery, rockets & short range surface to surface missles would quickly be in the billions, crippling one of the thriving economies that is friendly to the US, not to mention the phenomenal loss of life. Seoul alone has a population of over 12 million people.

Think about how much SK production from Samsung, LG, Hyundai and so on drives our Western culture. Our troops and the money it costs to have them there are a small "insurance premium" compared to the effect on the world of losing the ROK. Imo, we get a lot more ROI on our money there than most places our troops are stationed.

Let's hope that both Obama and Lee Myung-bak have the wisdom to deal with KJI/KJU appropriately. A carrier battle group is pointless without the resolve to use it and is a lot different than authorizing SEAL snipers to shoot pirates. I doubt that PBO could/would do anything without China's permision so what does that say about who the real superpower is now?

Gerry Clinchy
11-24-2010, 08:30 AM
What this really boils down to is that it marks the beginning of winter. The NK gooberment knows that due to the usual crop failures and failed policies that they have NOWHERE near the food to feed their people for the winter. So they need 2 things- a common enemy and the attention of the civilized world. Rattle the sabers and make all kinds of wild threats and sure enough the Western gooberments will crater and send them food at little or no cost. Been an annual event for nearly 50 years- worked every time.


Even one of the Chinese diplomats referred to NK using aggressive threats like this to return to the negotiating table with chips stacked in their favor ... and getting more aid, and then bugging off again.

Julie R.
11-24-2010, 09:15 AM
What this really boils down to is that it marks the beginning of winter. The NK gooberment knows that due to the usual crop failures and failed policies that they have NOWHERE near the food to feed their people for the winter. So they need 2 things- a common enemy and the attention of the civilized world. Rattle the sabers and make all kinds of wild threats and sure enough the Western gooberments will crater and send them food at little or no cost. Been an annual event for nearly 50 years- worked every time.

Bidness as usual regards

Bubba

ROTFLMAO....
You rock Bubba, this is the best and most concise summary of Dear Leader's methodology I've read this year.

Roger Perry
11-24-2010, 11:02 AM
Hopefully Obama can appease them and stop this before it gets even uglier.

If there are any Christians left on this site, pray....NOW!!

And you "middle of the road independeants" do what ever it is you do to help stop this.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101123/wl_afp/nkoreaskoreamilitarynuclearweapons_20101123092327

stan b

Hey, we always can send in the 50,000 or so of our military to invade N. Korea, however, we would probably have to use half of them to ward off the Chineese army. But that should not be hard to do because our Military is the best in the world.

Joe S.
11-24-2010, 11:42 AM
When I was in SK in the winter of 2007-08, I had the chance to speak to quite a few GI's stationed up by "the line" during my trips into Seoul/Itaewon. The predominant opinion was that, if the North did a blitzkrieg attack, they had about 30 minutes to live. Our troops are basically a "speedbump" designed to slow the DPRK down just enough to weapons in the air.

But you've got to remember just how close Seoul, Inchon etc is to the North. Even without that blitz, the devastation to industry & infrastructure that could be caused by just by artillery, rockets & short range surface to surface missles would quickly be in the billions, crippling one of the thriving economies that is friendly to the US, not to mention the phenomenal loss of life. Seoul alone has a population of over 12 million people.

Think about how much SK production from Samsung, LG, Hyundai and so on drives our Western culture. Our troops and the money it costs to have them there are a small "insurance premium" compared to the effect on the world of losing the ROK. Imo, we get a lot more ROI on our money there than most places our troops are stationed.

Let's hope that both Obama and Lee Myung-bak have the wisdom to deal with KJI/KJU appropriately. A carrier battle group is pointless without the resolve to use it and is a lot different than authorizing SEAL snipers to shoot pirates. I doubt that PBO could/would do anything without China's permision so what does that say about who the real superpower is now?

Your comments make a great deal of sense.

If North Korea really wanted a war, they would simply move their 1,000,000 member plus army over the border and that would be that. The only way to stop a shock-and-awe invasion would be the immediate use of tactical nuclear weapons. We know it. They know it. China knows it. Hell, everyone knows it. And then what?

Your comment about the China superpower thing was interesting and I'm not really sure what you are getting at. Are you suggesting because we coordinated a response with China we are not a superpower or because we coordinated a response with China they are a superpower?

It's A Nuclear Issue Regards,

Joe S.

dnf777
11-24-2010, 01:20 PM
not disputing that they havent heard of 9/11....but I would question the validity of the poll...what did someone go on camelback and ask the feudal warlords if they had heard about it...its not like they have Verizon or Sprint towers on every mountain, and I would guess that the 4g iPhone hasnt made it to the tribal highlands let alone the streets of the capitol..;-)

Wouldn't that make the argument that even LESS than 8% know about 9-11?

Gerry Clinchy
11-24-2010, 01:39 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/world/asia/24beijing.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a22



“At the moment China has limited influence,” said Cai Jian, a professor of Korean studies at Fudan University. “On one hand it’s unhappy with North Korean actions and its provocative behavior, but on the other hand it still has to support North Korea.”

The support continues because China fears that the vacuum created by a sudden collapse there would open the door to rule by South Korea, “and that will put an American military alliance on the doorstep of China.”




This could strengthen the hand of critics of North Korea within China, some of whom are geographically closest to the border. Many leaders in northeastern China are frustrated over the steady flow of refugees escaping poverty. Others are disappointed that North Korea has dashed decades of hopes for cross-border trade or special economic zones along the border.




“No matter whether it be within the party, among the people, or even within the military, China has grown increasingly sick and tired of North Korea’s rogue politics,” said a senior Chinese media commentator, who asked not to be named because of the delicacy of the issue. “But strategically, China’s kidnapped by it.”


Probably China is the best candidate for keeping NK in line.

Joe S.
11-24-2010, 02:43 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/world/asia/24beijing.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a22







Probably China is the best candidate for keeping NK in line.

...and Bill Richardson.

Political Regards,

Joe S.

depittydawg
11-24-2010, 07:36 PM
When I was in SK in the winter of 2007-08, I had the chance to speak to quite a few GI's stationed up by "the line" during my trips into Seoul/Itaewon. The predominant opinion was that, if the North did a blitzkrieg attack, they had about 30 minutes to live. Our troops are basically a "speedbump" designed to slow the DPRK down just enough to weapons in the air.

But you've got to remember just how close Seoul, Inchon etc is to the North. Even without that blitz, the devastation to industry & infrastructure that could be caused by just by artillery, rockets & short range surface to surface missles would quickly be in the billions, crippling one of the thriving economies that is friendly to the US, not to mention the phenomenal loss of life. Seoul alone has a population of over 12 million people.

Think about how much SK production from Samsung, LG, Hyundai and so on drives our Western culture. Our troops and the money it costs to have them there are a small "insurance premium" compared to the effect on the world of losing the ROK. Imo, we get a lot more ROI on our money there than most places our troops are stationed.

Let's hope that both Obama and Lee Myung-bak have the wisdom to deal with KJI/KJU appropriately. A carrier battle group is pointless without the resolve to use it and is a lot different than authorizing SEAL snipers to shoot pirates. I doubt that PBO could/would do anything without China's permision so what does that say about who the real superpower is now?

I heard an ex admiral's analysis of the situation today. It made a lot of sense. Our movement of the Battle Group is not meant as a threat to North Korea. It is a signal to South Korea that because the US is involved, they are now constrained from taking action. The last thing anybody needs now is the two Korea's meeting on the battle field.

South Korea's industries are their concern not ours. Their problems with North Korea are their concern not ours. Yes they are an ally. And yes we should use diplomatic pressure, the UN, and even provide military hardware if they have the money to buy it.
But this is the same nonsense we fall into every 10 years or so. The bottom line for the US is we have to learn how to mind our own business. If the Koreans want to blow each other up, then I guess we'll have to start making our TV's and Computers here again. Hell, we need the jobs anyway.

david gibson
11-24-2010, 09:17 PM
Your comments make a great deal of sense.

If North Korea really wanted a war, they would simply move their 1,000,000 member plus army over the border and that would be that. The only way to stop a shock-and-awe invasion would be the immediate use of tactical nuclear weapons. We know it. They know it. China knows it. Hell, everyone knows it. And then what?

Your comment about the China superpower thing was interesting and I'm not really sure what you are getting at. Are you suggesting because we coordinated a response with China we are not a superpower or because we coordinated a response with China they are a superpower?

It's A Nuclear Issue Regards,

Joe S.

i wouldnt be so sure of that scenario. we have constant satellite surviellence so they could not amass an invasion force without us knowing. i trust our military that they would not leave 29,000 troops + the s koreans in front of 1 million n koreans. and yes, i even trust obama in this situation. his comments today were the most nutsy i have ever heard from him, though thats not saying a whole lot....

david gibson
11-24-2010, 11:42 PM
been thinkin' on this - and this is how i see it:

China is on N korea's side, they cant let that territory slide to our side and wont stand for it, so of course if we ever attacked NK we would have them to deal with. now - China aint so happy with their little brat brother doing all this sabre rattling, they see no need for it. but of course NK has its own agenda, and they are an irrational bunch. just look at their hair styles... ;-)

so, if NK were so bold/stupid to invade SK, i would bet dollars to donuts China will invade NK and occupy them immediately and disarm their forces so as to avoid a confrontation with the west and still achieve what they need - control over that region. then we are back to square one, but with China in control of the NK territory.

my point is China is only their good time friend, they only tolerate them for the time being and dont trust the little troll doll and his sons.. they will trample them in a heartbeat to achieve their own goals.

Joe S.
11-25-2010, 08:41 AM
i wouldnt be so sure of that scenario. we have constant satellite surviellence so they could not amass an invasion force without us knowing. i trust our military that they would not leave 29,000 troops + the s koreans in front of 1 million n koreans. and yes, i even trust obama in this situation. his comments today were the most nutsy i have ever heard from him, though thats not saying a whole lot....

Really? I heard similar talk the summer of 1990...

Do you think it takes longer to amass an invasion force from 500 miles away or amass a response to a "detected" invasion from 5,000?

One can almost see how it might play out...due to the increased tension, North Korea announces they are holding a massive military exercise along the DMZ and instead of heading north the aggressor army heads south...

Leaving about 50,000 U.S. troops and the South Korean's in front of the North Korean army is exactly what has happened. The U.S. troops serve as trip wires. They are there to ensure a direct and immediate military response if the North should invade. Someone posted earlier here that they were "speed bumps." It is not a pleasant thought, but perhaps an accurate one.

Happy Thanksgiving Regards,

Joe S.

depittydawg
11-25-2010, 11:14 AM
Wouldn't that make the argument that even LESS than 8% know about 9-11?

The literacy rate in Afghanistan is less than 30%. There are 3.7 television sets per 1000 people. I can see how this tribal nation of mountain people could be oblivious to the world around them, but who are we to point fingers about an uninformed population?

Today, more than 7 years into the war in Iraq, as many as 4 in 10 Americans still believe Saddam Hussein's regime was directly involved in financing, planning or carrying out the terrorist attacks on 9/11, even though there has been no evidence to support a connection.

July 2009 - A whopping 58 percent of Republicans either think Barack Obama wasn't born in the US (28 percent) or aren't sure (30 percent). A mere 42 percent think he was.

47% of Americans think that TARP was initiated by President Obama.