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sinner
11-23-2010, 09:21 PM
I had lunch with a good friend, very right wing, today. She is very well educated and successful, Her husband is a service academy grad and a district judge. I started this with " I would not want to sit on a plane next to someone who had not been screened."
Her responses are as follows:
1. the Democratics are just punishing the people who voted Republican in the last election. You know this was not put in place until after the election.
2. Most of the TSA screening employees cannot speak english.
3. If I have a tampon in and the screening picks it up, do I have to take it out to prove no explosives?
4. I would just prefer to carry my pistol on board to handle any threats.
5. The metal detector at the court house does not always work so my husband takes his gun to the court room. (I might agree with this one.....?)
6. She quoted Rush " if there are two planes going to the same place: one is screened and one is not which one would you prefer to be on?" The one that I have watched all the other passengers board.

Maybe I am the one who has lost it?

Jason Glavich
11-24-2010, 10:22 AM
Yeh the scanners work really well with the highly trained people running them, Adam Savage from Mythbusters made it thru with 2 12 inch razor blades in his pocket(seattle). I am sure glad they screened him.

I am also glad they patted down a Mr Sawyer who is a bladder cancer survivor with a urine bag on his leg and he got covered in urine thanks to a TSA worker who couldn't understand what the contraption was, or just didn't care to find out before being a dips%*T or the woman who had to show her prostetic breast to a screener who also was so understanding about what it was.

They use a shoe we spend billions preventing shoe bombs, havent found any, underwear billions more. I have to take off my sweatshirt but a burka is fine.

I should wear a clear plastic suit with underwear only and maybe they can properly screen me that way.

Government officials are not subject to screening due to background checks, and clearances, I have a few of those except I haven't taken lots of money from companies who bought me for that election year. We should really trust all of them.

I vote for the bomb tunnels.

Uncle Bill
11-24-2010, 03:57 PM
Thankfully I no longer need to travel by public air. My last time was when they 'just' made us take our shoes off. What a fiasco.

HEY!!! Here's a thought.

UB

Whiskey & Gunpowder
By Robert Wenzel
November 24, 2010
Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.




We Are All German Jews Now

The introduction of so-called porno scanners at America’s airports and the egregious pat downs of airline travelers have turned every American into a German Jew. Instead of dehumanizing and demeaning one segment of the population in order to pave the way for the Holocaust, all airline travelers are being treated like German Jews by our government for our own good — to keep us safe from terrorists on airplanes.

The TSA now considers every American a potential “enemy of the state,” because any one of us may be carrying a bomb aboard an airplane, despite the fact that young men from the Middle East perpetrated the 9/11 attacks.

“Hold on,” say TSA officials and their lackeys in Congress and in the media, “Our federal government is not out to harm us let alone kill us like the Nazis did to the Jews; our government needs to conduct “aggressive measures” to “protect” us on all commercial flights from potential terrorists.” That is the party line.

I can understand objections to those who point to Nazi Germany and warn that this is what current day America is about. But I disagree with this objection.

The ultimate horrors in Nazi Germany were, indeed, much more terrible than anything close to what has occurred so far in America. But one should do more than only consider just the ultimate horrors of what went on in Nazi Germany. One must think about the road that was traveled by the Germans to get to that point.

I believe one of the most serious misunderstandings about totalitarianism is that it arrives as a full package that requires no assembly. That it is put on the people, like a winter coat. All at one time, and in full view for all to see.

This is a grave misunderstanding.

I often wondered why more Jews didn’t flee Nazi Germany. The answer did not come to me until I saw Roman Polanski’s important movie, The Pianist.

In the movie, Polanski demonstrates how many Jews were simply one step behind. When Nazi Germany limited how much money a Jew could have, instead of leaving the country, many Jews debated where they should hide their money. When Jews were required to move to certain parts of the city, many Jews simply focused on how to find the best place to live, instead of leaving the country. And then, of course, eventually it was too late to leave the country.

Would some Jews, perhaps a few, have listened and benefited from early warnings of ”fringe” voices about dangers? I think so. Would it have made sense to object to the Nazi limit on how much money a Jew could hold, and thus put at least a speed bump in the way of the Nazis? I think so.

No, they haven’t pulled up the trains in America, yet. But, when the trains do pull up, it is too late.

It’s clear what totalitarianism looks like and when I see it in America, I am going to object loud and clear. Whether it is groping TSA agents, or spying SEC agents. For it is those first steps where the battle needs to be won. Dehumanization in Germany, as Murray Sabrin points out, came step-by-step.

Dehumanization, whether it is groping or limiting how much money an ethnic group can hold, is still dehumanization. It’s the same road. We all know where that road led to in Nazi Germany. Maybe we can learn from history and stop the US from heading any further down that road.

Do my cries of warning put me on the fringe? Yes, they do. But it is a fringe group that I am proud to stand with.

Regards,
Robert Wenzel (http://clicks.whiskeyandgunpowder.com//t/AQ/AANHbw/AANRLg/AALiKg/Ag/AnzL8g/SS8G)

sinner
11-25-2010, 06:39 AM
Head line Denver Post 11/25/2010
PROTEST AGAINST SCANS A BUST!
There will always be folks that fall 2 standard deviations left or right of the mean!
Thank God for all, respect their positions but don't let the noise run the show!
Happy Thanksgiving!

Uncle Bill
11-25-2010, 10:59 AM
How do they KNOW this wouldn't work? Seems logical enough. UB





FINALLY - A great alternative to body scanners at airports . . .

The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the
privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It's a booth you can step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate
any explosive device you may have on you. They see this as a win-win
for everyone, with no crap about racial profiling. It also would eliminate
the costs of long and expensive trials. Justice would be swift. Case
closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion.
Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system . . . "Attention
standby passengers - we now have a seat available on flight number XXXX.
Shalom"

1tulip
11-25-2010, 03:41 PM
I have sorta been beating this drum on another thread, but here is what happened to me.

I had to fly to San Jose California because my 85 year old mother (who lives alone) was having surgery. (So much for "flying is a choice. You don't have a Constitutional right to fly".)

Because I have two metal knees I set off the metal detector and was forced to have a pat down. (So much for the "you can choose to go through a scanner if you don't want to be touched" argument.) 4-inch scars down the front of my knees? Nah, irrelevant. Gotta grope me to make sure I'm not a terrorist.

It was awful, and everything you have been reading about and I'm not going to describe it except to say it was painful and humiliating.

BUT here is what really made me angry. Obviously, no one is given a break. Everyone is put through the same mindless protocol. Even a frail old elderly man in a wheel chair. He was hard of hearing. I don't think he could understand what the TSA agent was saying. He's traveling with his elderly wife and a very solicitous young man who works for the airport. I watch while this old man (extremely stooped, back bent so far his nose is level with his belt buckle) try three times to stand up. He finally makes it and he's trying to hold onto the chair. The TSA person wouldn't stand for that! And when his wife and the young man reached to steady him, they were waved off and sternly warned by the agent not to interfere. So the old man is literally teetering there, and the agent tells him to put his arms out to be frisked. He could barely do this...

I don't know if he fell 'cause it was my turn to be groped again.

The point is: Our crack security forces have NO training in how to deal with and adapt to disabled travelers. They have no plan for how to safely screen the very young and very old, the people who need canes, wheel-chairs, braces or walkers. These people are told to stand up and stand still.

Look this is not only stupid, it's unsafe and cruel. We're screening millions of people and exposing thousands to injury... for WHAT? It's to keep us "safe". Explain that to the people who are going to be dumped on their butts and break their hips.

(My sister has MS, stands with difficulty, uses a wheelchair at airports and has a brace on her leg. I will probably get arrested if we're traveling together and they do that to her.)

dnf777
11-25-2010, 04:22 PM
I have sorta been beating this drum on another thread, but here is what happened to me.

I had to fly to San Jose California because my 85 year old mother (who lives alone) was having surgery. (So much for "flying is a choice. You don't have a Constitutional right to fly".)

Because I have two metal knees I set off the metal detector and was forced to have a pat down. (So much for the "you can choose to go through a scanner if you don't want to be touched" argument.) 4-inch scars down the front of my knees? Nah, irrelevant. Gotta grope me to make sure I'm not a terrorist.

It was awful, and everything you have been reading about and I'm not going to describe it except to say it was painful and humiliating.

BUT here is what really made me angry. Obviously, no one is given a break. Everyone is put through the same mindless protocol. Even a frail old elderly man in a wheel chair. He was hard of hearing. I don't think he could understand what the TSA agent was saying. He's traveling with his elderly wife and a very solicitous young man who works for the airport. I watch while this old man (extremely stooped, back bent so far his nose is level with his belt buckle) try three times to stand up. He finally makes it and he's trying to hold onto the chair. The TSA person wouldn't stand for that! And when his wife and the young man reached to steady him, they were waved off and sternly warned by the agent not to interfere. So the old man is literally teetering there, and the agent tells him to put his arms out to be frisked. He could barely do this...

I don't know if he fell 'cause it was my turn to be groped again.

The point is: Our crack security forces have NO training in how to deal with and adapt to disabled travelers. They have no plan for how to safely screen the very young and very old, the people who need canes, wheel-chairs, braces or walkers. These people are told to stand up and stand still.

Look this is not only stupid, it's unsafe and cruel. We're screening millions of people and exposing thousands to injury... for WHAT? It's to keep us "safe". Explain that to the people who are going to be dumped on their butts and break their hips.

(My sister has MS, stands with difficulty, uses a wheelchair at airports and has a brace on her leg. I will probably get arrested if we're traveling together and they do that to her.)

Do you not understand that a dedicated terrorist group would just have to find someone with a surgical scar to recruit, if just having a scar or a letter from Doc Adams would get you a free pass through security?

If someone ever brings a plane down by sneaking past security, the same people who are outraged now, will be the first yelling why they didn't do MORE to screen passengers.

Racial and gender profiling can be useful tools as well, and I'm not opposed to them, but they are very limited in their effectiveness. Not allowing men with brown skin on planes can be easily defeated by terrorists recruiting a fair-complexted woman.

Oh, and flying actually is a choice. You can take a train, bus, car. Just ask John Madden.

1tulip
11-27-2010, 12:24 AM
Do you not understand that there is no end to reactionary policies? Listen, tell you what... why do Americans need to fly? If there were no wide-body jets flying over the United States, the terrorists couldn't fly one into buildings or blow them up over a major US city.

The underwear bomber was arrested 11 months ago. It was such an earth shaking event, the TSA waited a year to put in their reactionary policies.

You hear a lot of people saying that the terrorists have already used the rectum-bomb. It wasn't on a US airplane, it was an attempted murder of a Saudi potentate of some sort. So, it's just a matter of time before AQ does this at 25,000 feet above Atlanta or Las Vegas.

No one on your side of the argument has responded to this possibility. The logic is absolutely linear. You admit that AQ is relentless. There is no extreme to which they will not go to kill us. So having made your case that only close inspection of our crotches and breasts can protect us from the last terrorist outrage, what do you suggest for the next one?

Is you fall back argument going to be... "well, they're only going to pick a random small percentage of us for a cavity search, so it's OK. Anything to be safe!"

dnf777
11-27-2010, 06:24 AM
Do you not understand that there is no end to reactionary policies? Listen, tell you what... why do Americans need to fly? If there were no wide-body jets flying over the United States, the terrorists couldn't fly one into buildings or blow them up over a major US city.

The underwear bomber was arrested 11 months ago. It was such an earth shaking event, the TSA waited a year to put in their reactionary policies.

You hear a lot of people saying that the terrorists have already used the rectum-bomb. It wasn't on a US airplane, it was an attempted murder of a Saudi potentate of some sort. So, it's just a matter of time before AQ does this at 25,000 feet above Atlanta or Las Vegas.

No one on your side of the argument has responded to this possibility. The logic is absolutely linear. You admit that AQ is relentless. There is no extreme to which they will not go to kill us. So having made your case that only close inspection of our crotches and breasts can protect us from the last terrorist outrage, what do you suggest for the next one?

Is you fall back argument going to be... "well, they're only going to pick a random small percentage of us for a cavity search, so it's OK. Anything to be safe!"

Aha! We finally agree on something. (But it did NOT take a year to impose reactionary measures after the underwear bomber)

I have scratched my head many times over the question of how much effort, money, and resource we spend to detect personal effects as a means to bring down an airliner. Magnetometers, scanners, puffers, xray of purses, cellphones, patdowns, wands, etc......

Then they load cargo and US MAIL into the belly of that same plane which HASN'T BEEN SCREENED!!!

Also, when I was a student pilot in Houston, I would marvel at the "big guys" flying right over my head as I would sit on an access road off the end of the runway to watch them take off and land. My criminal mind would ask, "what's to stop some Arab-Bubba from sitting here with an SKS and take out an engine on take off? Nowadays they have more sophisticated weapons that fit into the passenger seat of a chevy that can do far more reliable damage.

What's being done about this? (lots, I hope!)

1tulip
11-27-2010, 01:02 PM
You are right... we are hemorrhaging money on TSA's approach to safety. I tried to do some research and as best I can tell, one scanner is about $170,000. But the interesting thing is, it is sold with the operating system, and the additional software updates... no one knows. The way the government works, and the astronomical number of $$$ that has been spent on LOBBYISTS to make this the foundation of airport security... folks, this is a black hole!

We can be pretty certain that once TSA has invested $170K on their machines, they are completely hostage to the purveyors of the proprietary software.

You have to just scratch your head and think... "Really? You guys can't come up with anything more imaginative that scanning/groping the bodies of every single air passenger?"

Surely there are ways to scan, search, swab and radiation-check cargo and baggage. BTW: Remember the "sniffer machines." Seen any in use lately? Apparently they couldn't keep them calibrated enough to be reliable. How much did TSA spend on those?

Doc E
11-27-2010, 01:19 PM
Surely there are ways to scan, search, swab and radiation-check cargo and baggage. BTW: Remember the "sniffer machines."

The Israelis do a supreme job ----- The only problem is that here in the USA, it's called profiling.



.

Uncle Bill
11-27-2010, 02:01 PM
It's time to hire some Israeli security folks to train this nations airline security system. Who in their right mind think the current TSA gropers have any education in this fiasco? Even the lefties here are willing to concede the terrorists have won.

UB

Two Simple Solutions to the TSA Screening Mess


Monday, 22 Nov 2010 02:28 PM




By Wayne Allyn Root

Usually creeps go to prison for feeling up women and young children. It’s called sexual assault. But now our own government calls it legal if done by TSA agents in the name of national security.

Just more proof that virtually everything government does, they fail at miserably.

Make no mistake, the TSA is exhibit A for how to muck up both national security and the privacy and civil liberties of American citizens.

The TSA can’t stop suicide bombers, or underwear bombers, or shoe bombers, but give them the award for awkward, strange, creepy, bumbling idiots of the year.

Americans don’t want overpaid government goons and perverts with far too much authority, touching their junk. Something has got to give unless our government wants mass chaos, massive citizen protests, more economic carnage, higher unemployment, and the bankruptcy of the airline industry.

There are two simple solutions to this TSA mess. First and most importantly, hand airline security over to the private sector. Let airlines manage their own security, with their own private security forces. Get government out of the way. Government isn’t the solution, it is the problem.

American business usually gets it right. Businesses will weigh the right amount of security versus customer privacy, civil rights, and satisfaction. And if they fail, we as consumers can simply stop using that airline and choose another. The ones who get it right will succeed. That’s called free markets.

Perhaps the U.S. government should allow for it sometime.

Privatizing airline security will automatically save taxpayers a bundle.

All of these TSA agents are costing America billions of dollars we cannot afford. Are you aware the U.S. Postal Service is bankrupt? And that reduced service and incompetence by this government agency still loses $8 billion per year? Or that we have TRILLIONS in unfunded liabilities for U.S. Postal Service pensions and healthcare liabilities?

Well it didn’t start out this way. Once upon a time, postal employees were young. Today postal service retirees are helping to bankrupt America. TSA will become another government employee nightmare 20 years down the road.

It will lead to an unstoppable “too big to fail” bureaucracy and the fleecing of American taxpayers with more unaffordable pension obligations. We must end it now, before it becomes another bureaucracy too big to kill. Turn it all over to the private sector.

The second part of this solution is to end political correctness. Private airlines can best prevent terrorism by adopting the Israeli model of profiling.

No need to argue — it works to perfection.

Israel has the safest airports and the safest airline (El Al) in the world. There has never been a successful terrorist attack at an Israeli airport or airline.

Why?

They ask a series of rapid-fire questions of all passengers. There is no time to lie. If you try to lie, it is easy to detect inconsistencies in your story.

At that point you are pulled aside for a more detailed screening or body search. But everyone does not need to endure the health threat of major radiation, or the privacy violation of intrusive cavity searches.

This is a simple two-step solution that ends this national nightmare immediately. Result? No more trauma for children and Grandma, no more violation of privacy and civil liberties for average law-abiding Americans, and no more successful terrorist attacks.

This is a powerful one-two national security punch. But hey, why listen to me? Let’s keep listening to government. You know, those guys who ran gambling into bankruptcy in New York. Ronald Reagan once reminded us of the nine worst words in the English language: “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.”

I’m beginning to think the new mantra might be, the three worst letters in the English language: TSA.

Wayne Allyn Root, is the author of, "The Conscience of a Libertarian: Empowering the Citizen Revolution with God, Guns, Gold, and Tax Cuts.” He is a Las Vegas small businessman, homeschool dad, and citizen politician turned vice presidential nominee. His website is: ROOTforAmerica.com.