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dnf777
12-03-2010, 11:18 AM
Just saw the Chinese have committed $32.5 billion to establish a high-speed rail system, connecting their major cities. We have Amtrack, operating on 19thCentury-era technology tracks.

Our Air Traffic control system is operating on the same technology that was in place when Lesle Neislon's movie "Airplane" was released, with about 300% more flights to separate.

Hardly a day goes by in Pittsburgh that you don't hear of another water main break, as our clay pipes, layed on average 80 years ago, are reaching their life-expectancies. How 'bout where you live?

The Chinese energy commissioner just called in top scientists from 16 major energy companies to sit down and come up with ways to get off of petroleum-based energy.

Their kids go to school year 'round...no extended summer vacations.


I think in the end, Democracy and Freedom will win out....but we better be careful...they're nipping at our heels as the world leader.

Buzz
12-03-2010, 11:23 AM
Here in the US, recently elected governors are canceling a tunnel between NJ and NY, and major high speed rail projects are getting canceled in Wisconsin and Ohio. Absolutely no foresight.

road kill
12-03-2010, 11:30 AM
Here in the US, recently elected governors are canceling a tunnel between NJ and NY, and major high speed rail projects are getting canceled in Wisconsin and Ohio. Absolutely no foresight.

There is a reason these projects are getting canceled in WI.

We don't have the money!!!!

Spending money we DON'T have on something we DON'T need shows "Absolutely no foresight!"

Chairman Mao regards...........


RK

dnf777
12-03-2010, 11:40 AM
We don't have the money!!!!


RK

I know this is sounding like a broken record, but where was the money for the war in Iraq?

If we're going to spend money we don't have, let's at least have something to show for it!

Also, airliners are hopelessly tied to petroleum fuels for the forseeable future. Trains can derive their propulsion form any fuel source that can generate electricity. (fossil, solar, wind, geo......) A small step towards oil independence.

road kill
12-03-2010, 11:40 AM
I know this is sounding like a broken record, but where was the money for the war in Iraq?

If we're going to spend money we don't have, let's at least have something to show for it!

Also, airliners are hopelessly tied to petroleum fuels for the forseeable future. Trains can derive their propulsion form any fuel source that can generate electricity. (fossil, solar, wind, geo......) A small step towards oil independence.
Maybe there was, but there ain't none now.
The old "BUT HE STARTED IT!!!!"

So......let's spend it anyway??


C'mon man......



RK

dnf777
12-03-2010, 12:34 PM
Maybe there was, but there ain't none now.
The old "BUT HE STARTED IT!!!!"

So......let's spend it anyway??


C'mon man......



RK

How bout if we agree to pull out completely of Iraq right now, and use that money to improve our infrastructure? Would you agree to that?

Another angle to look at.....how much infrastructure is being built in China and our European allies' countries because they DON'T have to spend billions to "stabilize" the region? Why are WE footing the bill to maintain peace in THIER backyard, while our bridges, schools, grid, trains, etc...are decaying?

Buzz
12-03-2010, 01:47 PM
Where is my like button?

duckheads
12-03-2010, 04:37 PM
Move to china. I am sure they need some proctologists there.

Marvin S
12-03-2010, 05:28 PM
Just saw the Chinese have committed $32.5 billion to establish a high-speed rail system, connecting their major cities. We have Amtrack, operating on 19thCentury-era technology tracks.

Didn't our great stimulus plan commit a like amount? The public is tired of overpriced, subsidized transportation plans that only cost money & Do Not Work.


Our Air Traffic control system is operating on the same technology that was in place when Lesle Neislon's movie "Airplane" was released, with about 300% more flights to separate.

Privatize, anyone?


Hardly a day goes by in Pittsburgh that you don't hear of another water main break, as our clay pipes, layed on average 80 years ago, are reaching their life-expectancies. How 'bout where you live?

I've been buying those stocks that will benefit from these upgrades. It's an old issue caused by people in office who can not balance their own checkbook.


The Chinese energy commissioner just called in top scientists from 16 major energy companies to sit down and come up with ways to get off of petroleum-based energy.

Just like here - having worked with a few of their engineers I hold little hope they will do any better than we do. Battery technology is not new, all of our underground loco's were battery operated. Unless some bright individual comes up with a way to do it better (like the transistor has unfolded) it will not fly :o. Buzz needs to quit posting & get with it, that's his field :razz:.


Their kids go to school year 'round...no extended summer vacations.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - you're an advocate for keeping kids longer in a system that operates like a Model "T"? The government schools already have the kids too much. Just like you can pay more taxes, you can send your kids for enrichment on your own dime.

But look at the guy everyone is chasing, while I don't advocate his tendency to anarchy, you have to admit he is one bright guy for his ideas!!!! If you haven't been watching the news I speak of wikileaks & the fact he has no formal education :).



I think in the end, Democracy and Freedom will win out....but we better be careful...they're nipping at our heels as the world leader.

Yeah Right - they did invent gunpowder - 2,000 years ago :cool:.

dnf777
12-03-2010, 05:52 PM
Move to china. I am sure they need some proctologists there.

And if you ever want to pull your head out, you'll need one too. ;-)

Sorry, but you lobbed a meatball.

Cody Covey
12-03-2010, 06:39 PM
Isn't there some rule that defense spending can't be used for the general budget? If so wouldn't that make spending on infastructure not plausible?

T. Mac
12-03-2010, 07:10 PM
Just saw the Chinese have committed $32.5 billion to establish a high-speed rail system, connecting their major cities. We have Amtrack, operating on 19thCentury-era technology tracks.



Hate to burst the bubble, but California also just committed money to develop a high speed rail system. The differences though are obvious.

http://www.kcra.com/money/25999927/detail.html

California allocated $4.3 billion to develop a 65 mile segment in the central valley. A major part of this is Federal stimulus money. However politics as usual plays an important role, as the bill authorizing the expenditure requires that the first segment be built in the central valley (low population area) rather than developing the current Amtrak systems already in place such as the Capitol Corridor (Auburn to Sacramento to San Francisco) or San Diego to LA. And that the project must be approved and funding authorized by the state by the end of the year! Further the cities being connected in the central valley plan are very small with the only city of size being Fresno. The southern terminus is a town of Corcoran, where most of the inhabitants are prisoners at the local correction facility. So you can be happy that we will be happily spending $4.3 billion of your tax payer money to build a 65 mile stretch of high speed rail line connecting what is essentially a truck stop off highway 99, to the correctional facility in Corcoran (total population of about 130k), for a mere $66 million per mile.

"Engineers explained the route was the best choice of three studied, given the limited funding and a federal requirement that the segment be useable whether or not the entire 800-mile system is built. They said the route will allow the track to connect to an existing freight rail line used by Amtrak. The authority is under a tight deadline to pick a route and enter a funding agreement with the Federal Railroad Administration by the end of the year."

Want to bet that China will build something useful (like connecting major metropolitan areas) at a much better cost?

ppro
12-03-2010, 07:16 PM
Funny how the president not only will not get our troops out of Iraq but he escalated our troops in Afghanistan. Boy we need a new president.If only he thought that was the right thing to do. Maybe he knows the same thing G.W knew.We are loosing more troops now then ever funny how that is not news under this pres. I will assume the troops still need to be there.Father of a trooper in Iraq regards.

dnf777
12-03-2010, 07:41 PM
Hate to burst the bubble, but California also just committed money to develop a high speed rail system. The differences though are obvious.

http://www.kcra.com/money/25999927/detail.html

California allocated $4.3 billion to develop a 65 mile segment in the central valley. A major part of this is Federal stimulus money. However politics as usual plays an important role, as the bill authorizing the expenditure requires that the first segment be built in the central valley (low population area) rather than developing the current Amtrak systems already in place such as the Capitol Corridor (Auburn to Sacramento to San Francisco) or San Diego to LA. And that the project must be approved and funding authorized by the state by the end of the year! Further the cities being connected in the central valley plan are very small with the only city of size being Fresno. The southern terminus is a town of Corcoran, where most of the inhabitants are prisoners at the local correction facility. So you can be happy that we will be happily spending $4.3 billion of your tax payer money to build a 65 mile stretch of high speed rail line connecting what is essentially a truck stop off highway 99, to the correctional facility in Corcoran (total population of about 130k), for a mere $66 million per mile.

"Engineers explained the route was the best choice of three studied, given the limited funding and a federal requirement that the segment be useable whether or not the entire 800-mile system is built. They said the route will allow the track to connect to an existing freight rail line used by Amtrak. The authority is under a tight deadline to pick a route and enter a funding agreement with the Federal Railroad Administration by the end of the year."

Want to bet that China will build something useful (like connecting major metropolitan areas) at a much better cost?


Sad, very sad. As a country, we'd better pull our heads out of our A$$es and straighten our priorities. Fiscal responsibility and education better be moved way up, or we all better buy our Rosetta Stone chinese edition soon. It makes me sick when I see other countries like China taking common sense, sound, forward looking steps....while we splash around in a pool of partisan crap and bickering....going NOWHERE. The republicans had 8 years and showed they could do NOTHING. Now the dems have been much more efficient in their demonstration of incompetence, taking only two years to show more nothingness. We better find a party or person who can actually LEAD this country where it needs to go, rather than focus on the next election cycle.

Jay Dufour
12-03-2010, 08:10 PM
I just saw that badboy on FOX....300 MPH ! You can say that again DNF !

dnf777
12-03-2010, 08:22 PM
One big problem with high-speed trains is security. With planes, you need to secure them at their point of departure and check what gets on them. (and that's proving to be quite a task)

With a train, every inch of track, every remote bridge, is a potential target for a terrorist attack. All it would take is a welding truck and a little wedge of angle iron, and you got a 300mph coffin.

I suspect the cost of security, when taken into account, renders trains prohibitively expensive for now.

depittydawg
12-03-2010, 08:32 PM
There is a reason these projects are getting canceled in WI.

We don't have the money!!!!

Spending money we DON'T have on something we DON'T need shows "Absolutely no foresight!"

Chairman Mao regards...........


RK

Of course, that logic also applies to our military industrial complex.

zeus3925
12-03-2010, 10:43 PM
But look at the guy everyone is chasing, while I don't advocate his tendency to anarchy, you have to admit he is one bright guy for his ideas!!!! If you haven't been watching the news I speak of wikileaks & the fact he has no formal education :).

You think this his social isolation may have something to do with is lack of conscience? We want him essentially for espionage, Sweden wants him for rape. Lock the little buzzard up and pitch the key into the sea. This dude is a classic anti-social animal.

zeus3925
12-03-2010, 11:02 PM
Privatize, anyone?


The big conservative mantra is to privatize. That doesn't always end up providing efficient service. If you are in our neighborhood on Thursdays, you will witness no less than six big diesel garbage trucks picking up trash and another picking up recyclables. All for the 14 houses in just our cul-de-sac. I have lived in town where just one city truck did everything.

Another good example of privatization gone awry is the privatization of National Forest campgrounds. One concessionaire took over all the USFS campgrounds in a national forest in Colorado. Four years ago, he was was charging $26 just to have a half hour picnic. That with facilities built with tax money.

T. Mac
12-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Sad, very sad. As a country, we'd better pull our heads out of our A$$es and straighten our priorities. Fiscal responsibility and education better be moved way up, or we all better buy our Rosetta Stone chinese edition soon. It makes me sick when I see other countries like China taking common sense, sound, forward looking steps....while we splash around in a pool of partisan crap and bickering....going NOWHERE. The republicans had 8 years and showed they could do NOTHING. Now the dems have been much more efficient in their demonstration of incompetence, taking only two years to show more nothingness. We better find a party or person who can actually LEAD this country where it needs to go, rather than focus on the next election cycle.

The sad part is that the cost for the 65 mile segment is project to be $4.3 B. The 65 mile portion they are building is fairly flat ag land, while the final projected project is 800 miles which will include some fairly steep mountain grades, as well as terrain with a lot more river/creek crossings. If the construction costs were kept the same, 800 miles would cost $53B. But as costs will surely be double or more with the added bridges and mountain crossings for the other sections, this project could easily reach the $100B range! And then when you consider that it will still be over 100 miles from the Nevada border or 400 miles from the Oregon border, both very mountainous routes, to continue this on to become an interstate mode of transportation will cost unfathomable amounts.

Marvin S
12-05-2010, 06:20 PM
Our Air Traffic control system is operating on the same technology that was in place when Lesle Neislon's movie "Airplane" was released, with about 300% more flights to separate.


Privatize, anyone?


The big conservative mantra is to privatize. That doesn't always end up providing efficient service. If you are in our neighborhood on Thursdays, you will witness no less than six big diesel garbage trucks picking up trash and another picking up recyclables. All for the 14 houses in just our cul-de-sac. I have lived in town where just one city truck did everything.

Another good example of privatization gone awry is the privatization of National Forest campgrounds. One concessionaire took over all the USFS campgrounds in a national forest in Colorado. Four years ago, he was was charging $26 just to have a half hour picnic. That with facilities built with tax money.

Actually, my thought would be that the entire system should go in an IPO :confused:. Airport, Infrastructure, Management & whatever else is needed. It could not be any worse than the present system. Actually I believe our public utilities are sanely managed & would be a good pattern to follow.

Your example of concessionaires is actually weak. There are too many political intangibles in a concessionaire operation to be on the same page as an outright sale of infrastructure assets.

Bechtel just built a bridge here, will be paid out of user fees, both sides win & those who do not use the bridge will not have to pay :cool:.