PDA

View Full Version : What recession??



dnf777
12-08-2010, 01:04 PM
Duck and I joked about buying new trucks recently.
My current lease is up soon, and I went to price an upgrade.

Has anyone looked at new truck prices lately????
You'd think it was prosperous times.

A 2500HD with a mid-level trim package (LT)....mid to upper 40s!!
When I asked about a lease, the best they could come up with was 39 months at $819/mo!!!!!!

Oh well, looks like I'm buying out my old truck, and will be only somewhat happy about it. I told Chevy where they can park theirs.

Am I just stingy, or are those prices ri-f*$%ing-diculous!??

BonMallari
12-08-2010, 01:24 PM
Go look at the cost of a new Toyota...better yet go look at the price of a used Toyota...either a Tundra or a Tacoma...the prices will make you ill...guess I will try and squeeze another 50k out of my 96 suburban

dnf777
12-08-2010, 01:33 PM
This is unbelievable! I'm sitting in the dealer, almost willing to shell out a ridiculous price for a new truck, and the best they can incentivize is 5.5%!

So I call my bank, and the loan officer (a personal friend) said the dealers have the best rates available, and could only quote a 6% finance!

You would think that with banks sitting on record amounts of capital, and GM wanting to recover, there would be some incentives out there? The attitude was pretty much, yeah we're expensive, take it or leave it.

I can't figure this economy out. To hell with it. My GMC only has 38k on it, the radio is broken, but is by far the most reasonable offer out there. The banks can sit on their money, so can GM......SO CAN I.

ducknwork
12-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Has anyone looked at new truck prices lately????


Nope, I'm not a doctor. Just a poor blue collar worker here...;) Personally, I think you should have seen what kind of deal they could offer you for cash. Maybe a buy one, get one half off sale...:p

94 toyota pickup regards...

dnf777
12-08-2010, 03:06 PM
Nope, I'm not a doctor. Just a poor blue collar worker here...;) Personally, I think you should have seen what kind of deal they could offer you for cash. Maybe a buy one, get one half off sale...:p

94 toyota pickup regards...

Hey, I'm the only guy in town who still knows what window cranks are! I only wish I had a shiny new cowboy cadillac like the ones outside the Joy plant!

I told you the story about our PA, who helped a neighbor make a mortgage payment to avoid forclosure......only to find a shiny new F150 in their driveway the next month!

And hey, your 94 Yota will still be running long after the new GMCs are on the scrap heap! :D

caryalsobrook
12-08-2010, 04:24 PM
This is unbelievable! I'm sitting in the dealer, almost willing to shell out a ridiculous price for a new truck, and the best they can incentivize is 5.5%!

So I call my bank, and the loan officer (a personal friend) said the dealers have the best rates available, and could only quote a 6% finance!

You would think that with banks sitting on record amounts of capital, and GM wanting to recover, there would be some incentives out there? The attitude was pretty much, yeah we're expensive, take it or leave it.

I can't figure this economy out. To hell with it. My GMC only has 38k on it, the radio is broken, but is by far the most reasonable offer out there. The banks can sit on their money, so can GM......SO CAN I.

Welcome to the deflationary economy:) Dont you realize that everything is getting cheaper due to the constriction of the money supply? I looked at a 250 ford King Ranch- $60,000. Passed it up:). Looking forward to this deflationary economy:) Just wait - things are getting cheaper. Heard it from the horse's mouthll-someone on this forum:). HAVE a nice day:):)

Franco
12-08-2010, 04:34 PM
Best way to buy any new vehicle;

go to edmunds.com

Build the vehicle you want with the motor you want, trim level etc.

They will give you the exact cost to the dealer including shipping to the dealer.

On a bigger truck, allow the dealer to make $500. to $1,000. over the actual cost to them. Domestic dealers will also get a 3% quarterly from the MFG for eevry unit they sell so, the dealer just wants to roll iron slightly above thier cost.

Make sure that the window sticker(Maroni lable-Sen Maroni pasted the Fed Law making mfg's put a price on the window)) price's MSRP matches the vehicle you want so that you can compare apples to apples.

Where the dealer gets the best of you is on your trade in.

If they show you an invoice, it is not a real invoice. Just trust edmonds to give you the right number. The invoice a dealership is willing to show is what the dealership's management company charges the dealership for the unit. It is packed with additional cost like; office help, advertising etc. Again, trust edmunds to have it correct!

Then, research your area to see what the special mfg. rebates are and deduct from the edmunds price.

All vehicles are overpriced, afterall we have to support the UAW!;-)

The dealer will tell you that the price on edmunds is not correct, reality is they are not being honest about that.

Cody Covey
12-08-2010, 04:37 PM
my boss just bought a Honda element and honda gave him 1.8% To bad honda doesn't have trucks :)

luvmylabs23139
12-08-2010, 04:52 PM
When I asked about a lease, the best they could come up with was 39 months at $819/mo!!!!!!


Am I just stingy, or are those prices ri-f*$%ing-diculous!??

That is crazy. My mortgage is only $90 a month more than that.
That is principle and interest, we don't have an escrow account.

dnf777
12-08-2010, 05:59 PM
That is crazy. My mortgage is only $90 a month more than that.
That is principle and interest, we don't have an escrow account.

that's how I looked at it. I don't have any idea if they're selling any at that price, but it won't be to me. I have to watch what I say (type). I already dropped an f-bomb on the dealer when he showed me that offer. Judging by the look on his face, I could tell he agreed.

M&K's Retrievers
12-08-2010, 07:54 PM
My 2001 F-250 Diesel with 274,000 miles looks better every day. My goal is 500,000.

BrianW
12-08-2010, 07:57 PM
I hear radio ads daily for local WA Chevy dealers offering 1/2 ton Silverados at 0% for 6 years!?! :confused:
And the best your PA guy can do is in the 8's?
There's got to be some compromise somewhere, if PBO & the rep's can do it! :-P

depittydawg
12-08-2010, 08:07 PM
This is unbelievable! I'm sitting in the dealer, almost willing to shell out a ridiculous price for a new truck, and the best they can incentivize is 5.5%!

So I call my bank, and the loan officer (a personal friend) said the dealers have the best rates available, and could only quote a 6% finance!

You would think that with banks sitting on record amounts of capital, and GM wanting to recover, there would be some incentives out there? The attitude was pretty much, yeah we're expensive, take it or leave it.

I can't figure this economy out. To hell with it. My GMC only has 38k on it, the radio is broken, but is by far the most reasonable offer out there. The banks can sit on their money, so can GM......SO CAN I.

not to mention the fact that the banks are getting their money virtually free from the Fed now. Amazing.

Buzz
12-08-2010, 08:25 PM
My truck had a $40k sticker in it. I bought it for $27k. But gas prices were $4/gallon then and NOBODY wanted a truck then. The dealer confided that they were making money on it, which tells you something...

RedlegHunter
12-09-2010, 03:02 AM
I got my 08' 2500HD Crew Cab 4x4 for 30K out the door. Sticker was 48K, but that was when gas was high and diesel was higher. Still I needed the truck as my 150K 98' Yukon had hung me out to dry causing me to miss a duck hunt and we weren't having anymore of that!

JJaxon
12-09-2010, 04:10 AM
You need to support the GM machine and their efforts to strengthen the mexican economy; http://www.industryweek.com/articles/gm_to_build_new_vehicle__at_plant_in_mexico_22462. aspx
Maybe they can attract non-hispanic workers to move south for less wage than they used to make here?

Jason Glavich
12-09-2010, 08:51 AM
Ford has 0% financing, and a lot of rebates, Got a good deal on my 2010 f150 FX4 loaded with every option, Took their ford financing rebate which comes with an extra rebate as well and had my bank buyout the loan the following week for a lower rate, I did not qualify for the 0% though. I don't know many people who do.

sandyg
12-09-2010, 11:58 AM
Duck and I joked about buying new trucks recently.
My current lease is up soon, and I went to price an upgrade.

Has anyone looked at new truck prices lately????
You'd think it was prosperous times.

A 2500HD with a mid-level trim package (LT)....mid to upper 40s!!
When I asked about a lease, the best they could come up with was 39 months at $819/mo!!!!!!

Oh well, looks like I'm buying out my old truck, and will be only somewhat happy about it. I told Chevy where they can park theirs.

Am I just stingy, or are those prices ri-f*$%ing-diculous!??

LOL! This from a guy in a profession that when I see his counterpart charges me $116 for at most ten minutes of his time!

dnf777
12-09-2010, 12:03 PM
LOL! This from a guy in a profession that when I see his counterpart charges me $116 for at most ten minutes of his time!

Getting your head examined again?

Roger Perry
12-09-2010, 12:04 PM
This is unbelievable! I'm sitting in the dealer, almost willing to shell out a ridiculous price for a new truck, and the best they can incentivize is 5.5%!

So I call my bank, and the loan officer (a personal friend) said the dealers have the best rates available, and could only quote a 6% finance!

You would think that with banks sitting on record amounts of capital, and GM wanting to recover, there would be some incentives out there? The attitude was pretty much, yeah we're expensive, take it or leave it.

I can't figure this economy out. To hell with it. My GMC only has 38k on it, the radio is broken, but is by far the most reasonable offer out there. The banks can sit on their money, so can GM......SO CAN I.

At those prices GM wants to recover quickly;-)

sandyg
12-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Getting your head examined again?

Aren't you the guy who always lambastes me for taking the low road?

LMAO Regards,

dnf777
12-09-2010, 12:29 PM
Aren't you the guy who always lambastes me for taking the low road?

LMAO Regards,

Yep. Now go pay your doctor bill....just like a plumber, dog trainer, or mechanic, he rendered a service, and deserves to be paid.

ducknwork
12-09-2010, 02:35 PM
Getting your head examined again?

What a second...are you saying his head is in his...hmmm. Pretty clever one, dnf! LOL...:D

Blackstone
12-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Nope, I'm not a doctor. Just a poor blue collar worker here...;) Personally, I think you should have seen what kind of deal they could offer you for cash. Maybe a buy one, get one half off sale...:p

94 toyota pickup regards...

You won’t get any special deal for offering cash. The dealer is going to get paid in full right away from either you (cash) or the finance company you use. In fact, the dealer would rather you finance the vehicle and allow his finance dept. to arrange the financing. The finance company allows the dealer to bump the rate by a ¼ to ¾ points. The finance company get the deal and the interest, and the dealer gets to keep the extra. It’s their reward for booking the deal with through the finance company. That’s how the dealership finance dept. becomes a profit center.

BonMallari
12-10-2010, 01:13 PM
You may look at purchasing one out here. They are giving away free guns with the purchase of a new truck.

Pete

I will buy my own guns, but if they throw in a duck/goose hunting lease, then I could be persuaded to take a look...as long as its not a Dodge:-P

Blackstone
12-10-2010, 01:13 PM
On a bigger truck, allow the dealer to make $500. to $1,000. over the actual cost to them. Domestic dealers will also get a 3% quarterly from the MFG for eevry unit they sell so, the dealer just wants to roll iron slightly above thier cost.

You may be able to get the dealer’s cost on Edmunds, but that only gives you a starting point for negotiations. Most dealers will not take $500 - $1,000 over cost on a truck today. Once the recession hit, manufacturers cut truck production dramatically. For a while, truck and large SUVs are in very short supply, which meant the dealer could command a higher price for them. He doesn’t have to accept such a small profit margin because someone else will be willing to pay more just to get one. At one point, dealers wouldn’t even trade a truck or large SUV to another dealer because they didn’t know when they would get more. You know how supply & demand works. The reduced supply has allowed dealers to book higher profit margins.

Plus, the dealer has to pay the salesperson, office staff, and other dealership cost out of that profit. If all he makes is $500, there wouldn’t be much to go around. He wouldn’t be in business long.

The 3% you were referring to is generally known as “hold back” (and, it’s not always 3%). However, the manufacturer does not pay that to the dealer. They refund it to the dealer. The dealer pays that additional money on each vehicle, and it is refunded to the dealer either quarterly or monthly depending on which plan the dealer chooses. It does reduce the final cost of the vehicle to the dealer, but it is not extra money. Sometimes dealers will lower the price of the vehicle knowing their final cost will be reduced.

The only thing the manufacturers pay the dealer is floor plan interest credit to help offset the interest they pay their finance company on each vehicle. If the dealer sells the vehicle quickly enough, he can keep the extra money. Some dealers are able to pay cash for their vehicles, so they get to keep all of that money, but there aren’t many dealers that can afford to pay cash for their vehicles.


If they show you an invoice, it is not a real invoice. Just trust edmonds to give you the right number. The invoice a dealership is willing to show is what the dealership's management company charges the dealership for the unit. It is packed with additional cost like; office help, advertising etc. Again, trust edmunds to have it correct!

The invoice the dealer shows you is provided to them by the manufacturer, not by a management company. It is illegal for the dealer to change the invoice and present it to you. The invoice lists the MSRP and invoice price of the base vehicle and all options. It also shows shipping costs, advertising, and holdback amounts. There are no office help charges or other items added. All retail invoices have advertising included. This reflects the cost the manufacturer paid to purchase national advertising, and there is usually local advertising costs included too (dealers, as a group, pay a local advertising group to handle the local ads you see on TV and hear on the radio). Those costs are passed on to the buyer. Edmunds can have the national advertising amount, but not the local amount. That varies by market, and some dealers opt out completely. Only Fleet, government, and municipal order avoid advertising.


All vehicles are overpriced, afterall we have to support the UAW!;-)

I wonder why the foreign vehicles, like Toyota and Honda, cost so much? No UAW workers at their plants.

ducknwork
12-10-2010, 01:17 PM
I wonder why the foreign vehicles, like Toyota and Honda, cost so much? No UAW workers at their plants.

Because they last longer...supply and demand...

94 toyota pickup...runs like brand new...no maintenance cost beyond tires/oil change/brakes in the last 4 years that I have owned it regards,

Blackstone
12-10-2010, 01:17 PM
You need to support the GM machine and their efforts to strengthen the mexican economy; http://www.industryweek.com/articles/gm_to_build_new_vehicle__at_plant_in_mexico_22462. aspx
Maybe they can attract non-hispanic workers to move south for less wage than they used to make here?

All of the manufacturers have plants in Mexico, and have for years. Lower wages in Mexico and overseas is why manufacturing is suffering in this country.

Franco
12-10-2010, 03:26 PM
The invoice the dealer shows you is provided to them by the manufacturer, not by a management company. It is illegal for the dealer to change the invoice and present it to you. The invoice lists the MSRP and invoice price of the base vehicle and all options. It also shows shipping costs, advertising, and holdback amounts. There are no office help charges or other items added. All retail invoices have advertising included. This reflects the cost the manufacturer paid to purchase national advertising, and there is usually local advertising costs included too (dealers, as a group, pay a local advertising group to handle the local ads you see on TV and hear on the radio). Those costs are passed on to the buyer. Edmunds can have the national advertising amount, but not the local amount. That varies by market, and some dealers opt out completely. Only Fleet, government, and municipal order avoid advertising.




I don't know of any dealerships that do not add a "pack" to thier invoices.

In other words, the management company gets invoiced from the mfg. The mangement company then turns around and delivers the vehicle to the dealership with the "pack". That "pack" helps to cover some of the dealerships cost.

Are you saying that cost to dealerships are no longer "packed"?

Also, though Asian mfg's do not employ UAW workers in most of thier plants, the additioanl cost can usually be attributed to the foreign exchange rate.

P S
I am going to drive my 07 F150 until I can buy a new vehilce that runs on CNG.

Wayne Beck
12-10-2010, 03:43 PM
Back in september I picked up a GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab short box.. It stickered at 42k.. By the time the rebates and my GM points came around I walked out at 31k. I also financed through Citizens bank.. 72 months at 3.29%

Blackstone
12-10-2010, 09:06 PM
I don't know of any dealerships that do not add a "pack" to thier invoices.

In other words, the management company gets invoiced from the mfg. The mangement company then turns around and delivers the vehicle to the dealership with the "pack". That "pack" helps to cover some of the dealerships cost.

Are you saying that cost to dealerships are no longer "packed"?

Also, though Asian mfg's do not employ UAW workers in most of thier plants, the additioanl cost can usually be attributed to the foreign exchange rate.

P S
I am going to drive my 07 F150 until I can buy a new vehilce that runs on CNG.

As far as I know, all the manufacturers work the same as GM. GM sells directly to its dealers and only to its dealers, and they bill the dealer directly through an Electronic Funds Transfer system that all dealers are required to be on. The invoice is generated by GM at some point just as the vehicle is finished being built, and sent to the dealer electronically. As a customer, you have the right to see the factory invoice, and there are no administrative fees added to it.

I use a program for work that allows me to configure and price vehicles. I can tell a customer or dealer exactly what a particular vehicle will cost to the penny. It calculates MSRP, Invoice, and Dealer pricing. I can do that for all the manufactures. I use it compare our pricing to Ford or Chrysler’s.

I don’t know what a “packed” invoice is, and I do not know about any management companies. I don’t know why a dealer would need a management company. Manufacturers train dealers how to manage their dealerships, and provide Regional sales and service managers to help them keep their business on track, manage their inventory, and stay profitable.

I do know in Chicago, there are brokers that procure vehicles from dealerships for customers, and many of the customers never go to a dealership. I’m sure there are additional fees they add on. However, those people still have the right to go into the dealership and deal directly. Still these vehicles are sold directly to the dealership by the manufacturer.

As far as why the Asian vehicles cost as much as those from U.S. manufacturers, vehicle prices are established based on what the market will bear. Haven you noticed that all the vehicles in a segment (compact, mid-size, etc.) are all priced about the same. That is by design. It wouldn’t matter if some manufacturer could produce the vehicle for a penny, they would still price them at the same level. The profit margin would just be higher. That’s why Japanese cars and trucks cost what they do.

GM now manufacturers cargo and cutaway vans with a CNG option direct from the factory. Although nothing has been released officially, the word is pick up truck will be next in a year or two.

Nor_Cal_Angler
12-10-2010, 11:47 PM
My 2001 F-250 Diesel with 274,000 miles looks better every day. My goal is 500,000.


Hope you have a Cummins in that.....lol
...or should I say, you will need a Cummins in that to make it....lol
Good Luck



I will buy my own guns, but if they throw in a duck/goose hunting lease, then I could be persuaded to take a look...as long as its not a Dodge:-P

I'm hurt...soooo, sooooo hurt....lol

NCA

1999 Dodge 2500 CTD...374K sold it to a friend he still has it..452K
2001 Dodge 2500 CTD 93K

Franco
12-11-2010, 05:28 AM
I don’t know what a “packed” invoice is, and I do not know about any management companies. I don’t know why a dealer would need a management company. Manufacturers train dealers how to manage their dealerships, and provide Regional sales and service managers to help them keep their business on track, manage their inventory, and stay profitable.



Mangement companies are your "mega dealers". For instance, there is a comapny in Dallas that owns over 200 dealerships across the southwest and southeast. Vehicles are shipped directly to the dealerships but the invoices go to the parent (mangement) company. They in turn pack the invoice to cover some of thier internal cost.

Example; The mangement company gets invoiced for $20,000 for a vehicle. They in turn pack it with an additional $800 and invoice the individual dealership $20,800. which is the cost to the dealership.

Blackstone
12-11-2010, 06:13 PM
Hope you have a Cummins in that.....lol
...or should I say, you will need a Cummins in that to make it....lol
Good Luck




I'm hurt...soooo, sooooo hurt....lol

NCA

1999 Dodge 2500 CTD...374K sold it to a friend he still has it..452K
2001 Dodge 2500 CTD 93K

Just met with a potential customer last Friday that was pissed because he can't get more than 100k out of his Dodge diesels before they break down. He has 46 of them. He's not happy.

Blackstone
12-21-2010, 05:42 PM
Mangement companies are your "mega dealers". For instance, there is a comapny in Dallas that owns over 200 dealerships across the southwest and southeast. Vehicles are shipped directly to the dealerships but the invoices go to the parent (mangement) company. They in turn pack the invoice to cover some of thier internal cost.

Example; The mangement company gets invoiced for $20,000 for a vehicle. They in turn pack it with an additional $800 and invoice the individual dealership $20,800. which is the cost to the dealership.

In the case of mega dealers, the owning company is the Dealer Operator. I can’t speak for the other manufacturers, but GM only sends invoices to the ordering dealer, which means the company in Dallas would have to have a dealership available to them to place all orders through (orders can only be placed through special systems that are installed at dealerships). That would mean every dealership would have to forward every order to this management company for input, or each dealership would have to forward every invoice they received to the company. Either way, it would be a terribly inefficient way to run a dealer company. Maybe that’s why they need to pack their invoices.

I guess none of that really matters. What’s important is that you have the right to see the manufacturer’s invoice. I would walk out of any dealership that wouldn’t show me the original manufacturer’s invoice. You should not be paying any additional “packed” in charges. The profit margin the dealer makes on the deal covers their administrative and operating expenses. Adding additional administrative fees would be like going to a clothing store, having them mark up the clothes by 18% for their profit, then charge you extra for ringing it up at the cash register. I am not sure how any manufacturer would allow a dealer to get away with that practice.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation out there about how vehicles are priced. Most people don’t understand as much about it as they should, especially when it comes to leasing. That’s how they get ripped off at the dealership.