PDA

View Full Version : One Muslim Woman



Gerry Clinchy
12-16-2010, 08:14 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/opinion/16kristof.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=a212

I've said before that Muslim men fear that Muslim women will escape their bondage. One, unarmed woman ... in one of the most chaotic Muslim countries, Somalia ... has done some remarkable things.

If there is one thing right with the efforts in A'stan, it is the education of the women.



But there’s another side of Islam as well, represented by an extraordinary Somali Muslim woman named Dr. Hawa Abdi who has confronted the armed militias. Amazingly, she forced them to back down — and even submit a written apology. Glamour magazine, which named Dr. Hawa a “woman of the year (http://www.glamour.com/women-of-the-year/2010/dr-hawa-abdi-and-her-daughters),” got it exactly right when it called her “equal parts Mother Teresa and Rambo.”


Dr. Hawa states:


“We are trying an experiment,” she told me. “We women in Somalia are trying to be leaders in our community.”

So Dr. Hawa had her hands full already — and then in May a hard-line militia, Hizb al-Islam, or Party of Islam, decided that a woman shouldn’t run anything substantial (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-10/terrorists-kidnap-a-hero/). The militia ordered her to hand over operations, and she refused — and pointedly added: “I may be a woman, but I’m a doctor. What have you done for society?”

The Party of Islam then attacked with 750 soldiers and seized the hospital. The world’s Somalis reacted with outrage, and the militia backed down and ordered Dr. Hawa to run the hospital, but under its direction.

She refused. For a week there were daily negotiations, but Dr. Hawa refused to budge. She demanded that the militia not only withdraw entirely but also submit a written apology.

“I was begging her, ‘Just give in,’ ” recalled Deqo Mohamed, her daughter, a doctor in Atlanta who spoke regularly to her mother by telephone. “She was saying, ‘No! I will die with dignity.’ ”

It didn’t come to that. The Party of Islam tired of being denounced by Somalis at home and around the world, so it slinked off and handed over an apology — but also left behind a wrecked hospital. The operating theater still isn’t functional, and that’s why Dr. Hawa is here, appealing for money (especially from ethnic Somalis). She has worked out an arrangement with Vital Voices (https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/440/t/11399/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page_KEY=6726), a group that helps to empower female leaders, to channel tax-deductible contributions to her hospital.

Pals
12-16-2010, 08:18 PM
Wow! Such courage in the face of ignorance and hate.

david gibson
12-16-2010, 08:54 PM
what a brave woman. a hero to all. but if it is such a peaceful and perfect religion why would she be compelled to fight so? :confused:

i am forever haunted by the time magazine cover

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007269,00.html

such a peaceful, tolerant religion........yes, it desreves equal footing here with christianity, the religion that made this country a free world....

dnf777
12-16-2010, 09:03 PM
[QUOTE=david gibson;718922]what a brave woman. a hero to all. but if it is such a peaceful and perfect religion why would she be compelled to fight so? :confused:

i am forever haunted by the time magazine cover




that picture makes me sick too. I would like to hold the guy down for her, and give her the knife and all the time she would like to do a little carving of her own.

I heard she will have reconstructive surgery here, courtesy of a hospital and plastic surgeon. They won't make her as beautiful as she was, but hopefully will give her a normal life back.

david gibson
12-16-2010, 09:58 PM
[QUOTE=david gibson;718922]what a brave woman. a hero to all. but if it is such a peaceful and perfect religion why would she be compelled to fight so? :confused:

i am forever haunted by the time magazine cover




that picture makes me sick too. I would like to hold the guy down for her, and give her the knife and all the time she would like to do a little carving of her own.

I heard she will have reconstructive surgery here, courtesy of a hospital and plastic surgeon. They won't make her as beautiful as she was, but hopefully will give her a normal life back.

and they caught the guys that did it - her father in law and ex. no one expected the top authorities to go after the regular guys in the villages, but they did.

BrianW
12-17-2010, 09:10 AM
As bad as that particular instance was, it's the female "circumcision" that gets to me and, from what I've read, is a lot more common.

Question for discussion: "If" the Koran really gives the authority to the males/mullahs to do those types of things to their women, and apparently it does since it's been going on for so long, are she (and others who fight back like the female Sudanese protesters discussed in another thread) really being a "true" Muslim(s)?
To me, it's like saying I don't support the concept of a Pope and the (supposed) inherent infallibility thereof, but I'm "a Catholic".
There's central tenets of a faith that define its followers.
If we regard Islam as a religion and not a race, should this thread (and the related article) maybe have been titled "One Somali Woman"/ "Heroic, Female & Somali" instead?

Gerry Clinchy
12-17-2010, 11:36 AM
Question for discussion: "If" the Koran really gives the authority to the males/mullahs to do those types of things to their women, and apparently it does since it's been going on for so long, are she (and others who fight back like the female Sudanese protesters discussed in another thread) really being a "true" Muslim(s)?

To me, it's like saying I don't support the concept of a Pope and the (supposed) inherent infallibility thereof, but I'm "a Catholic".


I'm pretty sure there is nothing in the New Testament about eating meat on Friday being a pathway to hell ... yet for hundreds of years that was the ruling from the Pope. For many years, now that rule has been "relaxed". I'm pretty sure that God had his own way of handling the issue while the rule still stood in the RC church.

I'm not familiar enough with the Koran to know what are the specific divine directions & which are the "rules" added by fallible humans after the fact. My guess might be that the female subjugation in all its forms came from some human "rules".

Gerry Clinchy
12-17-2010, 11:44 AM
what a brave woman. a hero to all. but if it is such a peaceful and perfect religion why would she be compelled to fight so?

Dave, I don't think that I, or the article, are taking on that discussion.

I think that the point of the article is really that just one person, standing up for what is right, can bring thugs to their knees. That is cause for celebration regardless of country or religion.

If the environment of Islam can produce a woman (or man) of such courage in spite of the odds, then we may be able to learn from it ... and how to nurture more of the same. And close to the heart of all Americans, I think, is this concept that one person can make a difference. Her act of courage brought support from others who might not have had the courage to step forward alone, but who could no longer remain passive when faced with her example.

When people like this exist in the world, it's hard to fathom why Zuckerberger is Time's Man of the Year ... a brilliant young man from an Ivy League college, for sure, but can't inspire me the way Dr. Hawa does.

ducknwork
12-17-2010, 12:17 PM
I'm pretty sure there is nothing in the New Testament about eating meat on Friday being a pathway to hell ... yet for hundreds of years that was the ruling from the Pope. For many years, now that rule has been "relaxed". I'm pretty sure that God had his own way of handling the issue while the rule still stood in the RC church.


Eating or not eating meat on Friday has nothing to do with going to heaven or hell. It is a sacrifice that we choose to make in order to try to strengthen our relationship with God. Believe me, it's tough to not eat meat. I never want to have a piece of fried chicken or a steak quite as bad as when I am not supposed to have it. But the idea serves it's purpose. When my mouth is watering because the guy next to me at lunch just came back with a whopper and I am eating my peanut butter and jelly sandwich, it makes me think about why I am not eating meat...It is a practice in self denial. If you are going to strive to live a Christian life, self denial is a big part of it. So you practice it with small things, like not eating meat...During Lent last year I also gave up sodas. That was tough. But I got pretty good at self denial. If you can deny your self of small things, it makes it a little easier to not give in to the bigger temptations, you know, the temptations that do make the "pathway to hell"...

Gerry Clinchy
12-17-2010, 12:26 PM
Eating or not eating meat on Friday has nothing to do with going to heaven or hell. It is a sacrifice that we choose to make in order to try to strengthen our relationship with God.

I totally agree with you on what the premise should be for not eating meat on Friday.

When I was growing up in the RC church, however, eating meat on Friday was considered a "mortal sin".

And I also agree with you that a burger always looked better than fish on Fridays :-)

ducknwork
12-17-2010, 12:30 PM
Hmmm...there I go being 'too young' again...:D

Gerry Clinchy
12-17-2010, 12:50 PM
Hmmm...there I go being 'too young' again...:D

LOL! No, Duck, you're NEVER too young!

Birth control pills were also off-limits back then. And condoms still are ... although the Pope recently made an exception for preventing spread of AIDS in Africa.

The birth control pills restriction caused changes to take place around the late 70s, early 80s. Individual dioceses were tacitly allowed to counsel their parishoners as their conscience dictated.

Back in the late 60's Sunday afternoon masses were added. Now you can fulfill your Sunday obligation on Saturday night as well. (There are some Moravian congregations that consider Saturday the Sabbath day ... adopted from the original Sabbath day observed by Christ since he was a Jew. They hold their worship services on Saturday, even though they are a Christian denomination.) Here again, the concept and the rules sometimes differ.

So, there have been some significant changes in the "rules" that were man-made. Sometimes I think that religions are like secular "governments" ... there are basic concepts (like our Constitution), but bureaucracies sometimes get more involved in the "rules & regulations" than the original concepts.

dnf777
12-17-2010, 01:54 PM
LOL! No, Duck, you're NEVER too young!

Birth control pills were also off-limits back then. And condoms still are ... although the Pope recently made an exception for preventing spread of AIDS in Africa.

The birth control pills restriction caused changes to take place around the late 70s, early 80s. Individual dioceses were tacitly allowed to counsel their parishoners as their conscience dictated.

Back in the late 60's Sunday afternoon masses were added. Now you can fulfill your Sunday obligation on Saturday night as well. (There are some Moravian congregations that consider Saturday the Sabbath day ... adopted from the original Sabbath day observed by Christ since he was a Jew. They hold their worship services on Saturday, even though they are a Christian denomination.) Here again, the concept and the rules sometimes differ.

So, there have been some significant changes in the "rules" that were man-made. Sometimes I think that religions are like secular "governments" ... there are basic concepts (like our Constitution), but bureaucracies sometimes get more involved in the "rules & regulations" than the original concepts.

There is a fascinating story behind the development and marketing of the pill. Its developer was a devout Catholic and predicted the church's response. His counter argument, very respectfully made BTW, was that in cultures more closely aligned with the "natural order" of things, women start getting pregnant soon after menarche, and on average have many pregnancies. So, over her entire menstrating life, she may have only less than 100 periods. In our western society, even w/o the pill, women limit their pregnancies to around 2-6, depending. This subjects the ovaries to many more ovulations, disruptions of the ovarian epithelium, and predisposes to cancer. The statistics bear this out. Women who have more children, beginning at a younger age, have lower rates of breast and ovarian cancer.

He argued that by inducing a "simulated pregnancy" (which is what the pill does) it merely replicates a more natural condition....and that our western norms are the un-natural state.

He was clever, and went so far as to arrange and market the pill in 4 week cycles, including a placebo to allow menstration, in keeping with Biblical reference, and also to appear more "normal". THAT, ladies, is the reason birth control pills come in 4 week cycles. There is no medical reason to allow a period to occur, other than the good doctor thought it would assuage the church's concerns. (ever notice norplant and depo-provera, and now the newer oral pills have no periods with them?

ducknwork
12-17-2010, 02:56 PM
Interesting post dnf.


(ever notice norplant and depo-provera, and now the newer oral pills have no periods with them?

I have noticed that and it seems somewhat disturbing to me. I thought that a period was a way that the body cleansed itself on a regular basis. Call me old school, but it just seems unhealthy and frankly, kinda scary to mess with the natural processes of your body.

dnf777
12-17-2010, 03:10 PM
Interesting post dnf.



I have noticed that and it seems somewhat disturbing to me. I thought that a period was a way that the body cleansed itself on a regular basis. Call me old school, but it just seems unhealthy and frankly, kinda scary to mess with the natural processes of your body.


Well, there is a valid argument that the "natural process" is to be pregnant from menarche to menopause, except when a woman's body says "no" during breast feeding. There is certainly a significantly higher rate of breast and ovarian cancer in western societies where women limit their fecundity. Actually, subjecting one's ovaries to over 400 menses is abnormal.

Taking antibiotics is also messing with natural processes. I'm just sayin' that we interfere with nature all the time, and its usually a good thing. Or at least we think so. ;-)

mjh345
12-18-2010, 02:05 AM
I thought the no meat on Fridays was due to pressure from the fishermans lobby