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Hoosier
12-19-2010, 10:50 AM
A friend of mine was over yesterday. He's a software engineer and works for the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. He was telling me that part of his job is to maintain a system that scans license plates and runs checks on cars. The kind police use, that scan plates as they drive down the road. He says now if you pull into a Wal Mart or Target parking lot your plates will be read by sensors on the light poles, and a check is ran.
He was defending it as a great way to find stolen cars, but seems really intrusive and unnecessary to me.

road kill
12-19-2010, 10:54 AM
A friend of mine was over yesterday. He's a software engineer and works for the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. He was telling me that part of his job is to maintain a system that scans license plates and runs checks on cars. The kind police use, that scan plates as they drive down the road. He says now if you pull into a Wal Mart or Target parking lot your plates will be read by sensors on the light poles, and a check is ran.
He was defending it as a great way to find stolen cars, but seems really intrusive and unnecessary to me.


Probable cause????



RK

M&K's Retrievers
12-19-2010, 11:12 AM
Better not be scanning an illegal alien's car.

dnf777
12-19-2010, 03:18 PM
A friend of mine was over yesterday. He's a software engineer and works for the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. He was telling me that part of his job is to maintain a system that scans license plates and runs checks on cars. The kind police use, that scan plates as they drive down the road. He says now if you pull into a Wal Mart or Target parking lot your plates will be read by sensors on the light poles, and a check is ran.
He was defending it as a great way to find stolen cars, but seems really intrusive and unnecessary to me.

1984 is here. Big Brother is watching you.
And its all under the guise of patriotism and your own safety!


We live in Oceania now.

Eric Johnson
12-19-2010, 03:43 PM
Probable cause????



RK

Probable cause? What would be the basis of that?

The license plate is a funny beast. Technically it isn't owned by you but rather it is issued to you by the state in order to identify both the vehicle and the scoflaws who don't pay their taxes. (Witness the states that require you to turn in the plates when you sell the vehicle.) They're using the license plate just as it was designed and just as the police do everywhere. The only difference is that a computer is pattern matching at a higher rate of speed.

Eric

depittydawg
12-19-2010, 05:10 PM
Probable cause????



RK

Not sure how Probable Cause weighs in. One could argue that probable cause is determined by the incidental monitoring which discovers a suspected stolen vehicle. At that point probable cause exists and a search is warranted.

road kill
12-19-2010, 05:35 PM
Not sure how Probable Cause weighs in. One could argue that probable cause is determined by the incidental monitoring which discovers a suspected stolen vehicle. At that point probable cause exists and a search is warranted.


So, if officer A suspects you might have a joint in your pocket, can he stop you?

Then why can officer B run your plate without probable cause?


Ain't gonna fly if an illegal alien or a Muslim terrorist get caught.:D


Just sayin'.....


RK

luvmylabs23139
12-19-2010, 06:03 PM
A friend of mine was over yesterday. He's a software engineer and works for the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. He was telling me that part of his job is to maintain a system that scans license plates and runs checks on cars. The kind police use, that scan plates as they drive down the road. He says now if you pull into a Wal Mart or Target parking lot your plates will be read by sensors on the light poles, and a check is ran.
He was defending it as a great way to find stolen cars, but seems really intrusive and unnecessary to me.

How is this any different than liscense checks in certain states? I'm driving along doing nothing wrong yet they can set up a road block in NC and check my liscense. There is no probable cause. I went thru the same check 6 times today on the backroad that is rarely traveled by anyone but those who live in the area.
They hit hit us to and from church, to and from the gym, and to and from Christmas errands.

Hoosier
12-19-2010, 06:54 PM
I really wonder how many times, on an average day, we are tracked in some way by the government

dnf777
12-19-2010, 07:04 PM
So, if officer A suspects you might have a joint in your pocket, can he stop you?

Then why can officer B run your plate without probable cause?


Ain't gonna fly if an illegal alien or a Muslim terrorist get caught.:D


Just sayin'.....


RK


I think the question is: Do you have an expectation of privacy driving down a public road with your license place hanging off your bumper?

I doubt it.

Where was this concern with warrantless wiretapping and email surveillance?
My phone and email are two areas where I DO expect some privacy. (but I don't count on it anymore)

road kill
12-19-2010, 07:22 PM
I think the question is: Do you have an expectation of privacy driving down a public road with your license place hanging off your bumper?

I doubt it.

Where was this concern with warrantless wiretapping and email surveillance?
My phone and email are two areas where I DO expect some privacy. (but I don't count on it anymore)

I thought we were talking about the license plate scanning.:rolleyes:



RK

dnf777
12-19-2010, 07:39 PM
I thought we were talking about the license plate scanning.:rolleyes:



RK

I thought we were talking about government intrusion into our privacy, in the broader sense.

I don't like it either, but driving on a public road, I don't have an expectation of privacy, other than IN my vehicle or on my person. (or on my cell phone)

You do realize, you've probably had your plates run many times, and just don't know it, don't you? This is the same principle, different technology.

Hoosier
12-19-2010, 09:03 PM
I thought we were talking about government intrusion into our privacy, in the broader sense.

I don't like it either, but driving on a public road, I don't have an expectation of privacy, other than IN my vehicle or on my person. (or on my cell phone)

You do realize, you've probably had your plates run many times, and just don't know it, don't you? This is the same principle, different technology.

It has gone beyond driving down a public road. Now they are doing it in business parking lots. Why the hell do they need to know when I go to Target.

Rudd
12-19-2010, 11:19 PM
I thought we were talking about government intrusion into our privacy, in the broader sense.

I don't like it either, but driving on a public road, I don't have an expectation of privacy, other than IN my vehicle or on my person. (or on my cell phone)

You do realize, you've probably had your plates run many times, and just don't know it, don't you? This is the same principle, different technology.

Wal-Mart and Target parking lots are private property.

T. Mac
12-19-2010, 11:50 PM
It has gone beyond driving down a public road. Now they are doing it in business parking lots. Why the hell do they need to know when I go to Target.

It is not actually the police who are doing this surveillance, rather it is the loss control company at the malls and shopping centers. They are looking primarily for stolen cars, as the car thiefs also tend to like to do purse snatching, and smash and grabs from vehicles in the parking lot - stolen car not as easy to trace back to the thieves if someone does happen to get a good description. However if loss prevention can id a car as stolen as they drive into the parking lot...

T. Mac

BonMallari
12-20-2010, 12:20 AM
I really wonder how many times, on an average day, we are tracked in some way by the government

do you have a Google account, or an Amazon account, notice how the choices on Google News or the choices on Amazon are based on the sites and type of info that you surf on the net..look at the cookies that are stored in our computers...our habits on the computer are very easy to track...hmmmm

Juli H
12-20-2010, 12:45 AM
I really wonder how many times, on an average day, we are tracked in some way by the government


I think that would depend upon where you live.:cool: pretty sure we don't have any hidden cameras or license plate scanners in Tok. LOL heck, we don't even have a stop light. LOL

Juli

dnf777
12-20-2010, 05:40 AM
Wal-Mart and Target parking lots are private property.

Legally yes. But a road or parking lot, same idea. Look, I don't like it, but it ain't going away. Phone taps, computer profiling, email interdiction, security cameras..... Its all part of the 911 mentality, when we really started giving up privacy and rights in the name of security. Didn't like it then, don't like it now.

We live in Oceania now.

road kill
12-20-2010, 06:37 AM
Legally yes. But a road or parking lot, same idea. Look, I don't like it, but it ain't going away. Phone taps, computer profiling, email interdiction, security cameras..... Its all part of the 911 mentality, when we really started giving up privacy and rights in the name of security. Didn't like it then, don't like it now.

We live in Oceania now.


The mark of the beast!!:cool:



RK

cotts135
12-20-2010, 07:01 AM
Until we as a society decide to give up some safety for privacy this mentality will continue in this country. The security industry has a huge interest in this and consequently their main message is to promote fear and uncertainty so people will become subservient to their wishes.
Unfortunately the terrorists have won a huge battle when it comes to having Americans living in fear. Since 9/11 we have changed so many laws(Patriot Act) in the name of security that we have now become desensitized to what freedom really means. Freedom and liberty have cost's and we should think twice before we so willingly give those up.

Hew
12-20-2010, 07:35 AM
Legally yes. But a road or parking lot, same idea. Look, I don't like it, but it ain't going away. Phone taps, computer profiling, email interdiction, security cameras..... Its all part of the 911 mentality, when we really started giving up privacy and rights in the name of security. Didn't like it then, don't like it now.

We live in Oceania now.
Blaming 9/11 or the Patriot Act for law enforcement surveillance in mall parking lots is as laughably absurd as claiming that if the Wright brothers were aborted by their mom we'd not have airplanes now.

Hew
12-20-2010, 07:39 AM
Unfortunately the terrorists have won a huge battle when it comes to having Americans living in fear. LOL. Oh, the humanity. Trying to catch thieves in a mall parking lot = surrender to terrorists. Since 9/11 we have changed so many laws(Patriot Act) in the name of security that we have now become desensitized to what freedom really means. Yeah, you REALLY became desnsitized because I asked you a year or so ago to give me one example of your personal rights being infringed by the govt. post-9/11 and you couldn't come up with one example. Freedom and liberty have cost's and we should think twice before we so willingly give those up.
........................

BrianW
12-20-2010, 08:50 AM
It is not actually the police who are doing this surveillance, rather it is the loss control company at the malls and shopping centers. They are looking primarily for stolen cars, as the car thiefs also tend to like to do purse snatching, and smash and grabs from vehicles in the parking lot - stolen car not as easy to trace back to the thieves if someone does happen to get a good description. However if loss prevention can id a car as stolen as they drive into the parking lot... T. Mac

So then how are LCC's confirming whether or not the car is "stolen" prior to it entering the private property, if not by accessing an LE database?
Seems to me like that's crossing the line between "public safety" & "private interest".
Should a private company then be able to see if license plate's owner has ever been convicted pf shoplifting, vandalism, or anything else that might affect the business? The implications of this are quite the "slippery slope" imo and sounds like a takeoff on "Minority Report".

road kill
12-20-2010, 08:53 AM
Blaming 9/11 or the Patriot Act for law enforcement surveillance in mall parking lots is as laughably absurd as claiming that if the Wright brothers were aborted by their mom we'd not have airplanes now.
You are surprised?


RK

david gibson
12-20-2010, 09:04 AM
You are surprised?


RK


these same scanners have been built in the light boxes on many patrol cars for a while now, so they are scanning passively all the time. and why shouldnt walmart check you out? you are on their private property, and your criminal record is public. they have a right to check your id at the door, and a right to search your car in the parking lot. and you have the right to shop somewhere else.

although i dont particularly like this idea, i dont drive a stolen car or have a record for shoplifting or other similar crimes so i am not too worried. sign of the times and nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 or the patriot act.

cotts135
12-20-2010, 09:09 AM
Originally Posted by cotts135
Unfortunately the terrorists have won a huge battle when it comes to having Americans living in fear. LOL. Oh, the humanity. Trying to catch thieves in a mall parking lot = surrender to terrorists. Since 9/11 we have changed so many laws(Patriot Act) in the name of security that we have now become desensitized to what freedom really means. Yeah, you REALLY became desnsitized because I asked you a year or so ago to give me one example of your personal rights being infringed by the govt. post-9/11 and you couldn't come up with one example. Freedom and liberty have cost's and we should think twice before we so willingly give those up.[/QUOTE]


Like usual you twist around what I said and inject your own spin which has nothing to do with what I wrote. If you believe that we haven't moved more towards a surveillance state at least more so since 9-11 that's fine. At least support your position. I just disagree with you.

Eric Johnson
12-20-2010, 09:25 AM
Wal-Mart and Target parking lots are private property.

So.....? The police departments are given fairly free access to these areas by the owners. I was the land owner's representative on the lease for a very large shopping mall. We didn't have any problem whatsoever with having police on the property.

Eric

dnf777
12-20-2010, 11:42 AM
Blaming 9/11 or the Patriot Act for law enforcement surveillance in mall parking lots is as laughably absurd as claiming that if the Wright brothers were aborted by their mom we'd not have airplanes now.

You don't think that 9-11 ushered in a yearning for security, that we have been sacraficing privacy in an attempt to achieve?


Really?

Then whey did I see Ben Franklin being quoted here as saying 'those who would trade liberties for security, deserve neither'?? Was that just a non-sequitor that popped up in a thread about the best brand of bumpers?? :confused:

dnf777
12-20-2010, 11:46 AM
these same scanners have been built in the light boxes on many patrol cars for a while now, so they are scanning passively all the time. and why shouldnt walmart check you out? you are on their private property, and your criminal record is public. they have a right to check your id at the door, and a right to search your car in the parking lot. and you have the right to shop somewhere else.

although i dont particularly like this idea, i dont drive a stolen car or have a record for shoplifting or other similar crimes so i am not too worried. sign of the times and nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 or the patriot act.

I think they should scan grocery carts and see who's buying sodas, twinkies, and cigarettes, then send them a surcharge on the gov't run healthcare!

And give those of us who buy fresh vegetables and natural foods a rebate!

Of course, Bon's 42 cent daily purchases are likely to raise suspicion....;)

david gibson
12-20-2010, 11:50 AM
I think they should scan grocery carts and see who's buying sodas, twinkies, and cigarettes, then send them a surcharge on the gov't run healthcare!

And give those of us who buy fresh vegetables and natural foods a rebate!

Of course, Bon's 42 cent daily purchases are likely to raise suspicion....;)

they can already track that, what do you think that little membership card does that gets you the "in house" sale price? they dont mine that data very much currently, but there is a lot of potential mining to do. i hate those cards, used to be something on sale was on sale for everybody, but now you have to have a card when they have a good deal on shrimp or 1/2 off on angus ny strips.

ducknwork
12-20-2010, 12:00 PM
I don't understand what the big deal is about running license plates. I've read through the entire thread and I just don't get it. Who is it going to hurt if they run everyone's license plate? Not me, maybe not you...only those who have broken the law and they need to be caught...

dnf777
12-20-2010, 12:16 PM
they can already track that, what do you think that little membership card does that gets you the "in house" sale price? they dont mine that data very much currently, but there is a lot of potential mining to do. i hate those cards, used to be something on sale was on sale for everybody, but now you have to have a card when they have a good deal on shrimp or 1/2 off on angus ny strips.

So true. That's how those instant coupons they print out with your receipt know exactly what you're likely to buy next time.

Just bought half of a Belted Galloway (oreo cow) from a friend who ranches. No discount card required!


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/Unknown-2.jpg

BonMallari
12-20-2010, 12:44 PM
I think they should scan grocery carts and see who's buying sodas, twinkies, and cigarettes, then send them a surcharge on the gov't run healthcare!

And give those of us who buy fresh vegetables and natural foods a rebate!

Of course, Bon's 42 cent daily purchases are likely to raise suspicion....;)

I grocery shop at Whole Foods...a touch more expensive but better quality produce, most of my supplements are Whole Foods brand 365...:p

mjh345
12-20-2010, 01:27 PM
they can already track that, what do you think that little membership card does that gets you the "in house" sale price? they dont mine that data very much currently, but there is a lot of potential mining to do. i hate those cards, used to be something on sale was on sale for everybody, but now you have to have a card when they have a good deal on shrimp or 1/2 off on angus ny strips.

Call my doctor, I'm agreeing with Gibson again!!
If you can sell me the shrimp for $4/lb, then please do it without me having to have a data card

Marvin S
12-20-2010, 01:28 PM
I grocery shop at Whole Foods...a touch more expensive but better quality produce, most of my supplements are Whole Foods brand 365...:p

You might rethink that a little if you had read the article about the founder of WFMI. But I do agree with his comments on Organic stuff. The best place to shop for good produce is a Farmers Market, closer to the land with no middlemen :). Generally picked that AM or the evening before. Puritan Pride for supplements, mail order.

As for the original topic, if you have nothing to hide why be concerned?

Marvin S
12-20-2010, 01:32 PM
Just bought half of a Belted Galloway (oreo cow) from a friend who ranches. No discount card required!


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/Unknown-2.jpg

Looks like a male to me - the term cow is reserved for females who have given birth. & just when you thought you knew it all :-P.

BonMallari
12-20-2010, 01:33 PM
You might rethink that a little if you had read the article about the founder of WFMI. But I do agree with his comments on Organic stuff. The best place to shop for good produce is a Farmers Market, closer to the land with no middlemen :). Generally picked that AM or the evening before. Puritan Pride for supplements, mail order.

As for the original topic, if you have nothing to hide why be concerned?

the founder of WFMI is an Austin Tx liberal...but since they bought out the competition in Wild Oats, dont exactly have any choices...and Farmer's Market is the only place to shop when in SoCal

dnf777
12-20-2010, 03:42 PM
Looks like a male to me - the term cow is reserved for females who have given birth. & just when you thought you knew it all :-P.

Stock photo. ;)

Roger Perry
12-20-2010, 03:59 PM
So true. That's how those instant coupons they print out with your receipt know exactly what you're likely to buy next time.

Just bought half of a Belted Galloway (oreo cow) from a friend who ranches. No discount card required!


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/Unknown-2.jpg

Which half did you get?

charly_t
12-20-2010, 08:06 PM
This has nothing to do with license plates.......just electronic "snooping" so to speak. A cousin shopped at one store where you use the little card for the special prices. When they did the peanut butter recall she got an automated phone call. She had bought a jar of that brand of peanut butter ( it was not one of
the sale items however). Her purchases were all on record each time she used the card. In this case it was a good thing.

depittydawg
12-20-2010, 08:27 PM
So true. That's how those instant coupons they print out with your receipt know exactly what you're likely to buy next time.

Just bought half of a Belted Galloway (oreo cow) from a friend who ranches. No discount card required!


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/Unknown-2.jpg

Nice looking beefer. I've bought several over the years, never got a picture of him though. That's kind of cool. :)