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Buzz
01-08-2011, 01:31 PM
I hope these were not 2nd amendment remedies...

I guess at least 5 people were wounded.



Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona
by NPR Staff, National Public Radio
January 8, 2011

U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot outside a grocery store in Tucson while holding a public event, Arizona Public Media reported Saturday.

Giffords, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting her first "Congress on Your Corner" event at the Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.

At least five other people, including members of her staff, were hurt. Giffords was transported to University Medical Center in Tucson. Her condition was not immediately known.

Giffords was talking to a couple when the man ran up firing indiscriminately, and then ran off, Michaels said. According to other witnesses, the was tackled by a bystander and taken into custody.

More details to come. Copyright 2011 National Public Radio. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.

BonMallari
01-08-2011, 01:40 PM
prayers up for the Congressperson and all those injured, hope they string up the perp

Buzz
01-08-2011, 02:04 PM
prayers up for the Congressperson and all those injured, hope they string up the perp




The suspect ran off and was tackled by a bystander. He was taken into custody. Witnesses described him as in his late teens or early 20s.


Hope he fries.

dnf777
01-08-2011, 02:04 PM
That's terrible.
I hope everyone survives and can put their lives back together.
Prayers also sent for all involved.

Buzz
01-08-2011, 02:10 PM
Dave, no such luck...



Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and six others died after a gunman opened fire at a public event on Saturday, the Pima County, Ariz., sheriff's office confirms. The 40-year-old Democrat was outside a Tucson grocery store when a gunman ran up and began firing indiscriminately. The suspect was taken into police custody.



Giffords, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting her first "Congress on Your Corner" event at the store in northwest Tucson, NPR reported.
Giffords, 40, a Democrat, is married to U.S. astronaut Mark Kelly. She took office in January 2007, emphasizing issues such as immigration reform, embryonic stem-cell research, alternative energy sources and a higher minimum wage.

david gibson
01-08-2011, 02:12 PM
wow. what a sad, sad day.

Eric Johnson
01-08-2011, 02:33 PM
The story is that 12-15 total casualties.

The Congresswoman is confirmed dead.

The news is a little sketchy on whether there are 5 or 6 other deaths.

Eric

Buzz
01-08-2011, 02:39 PM
The story is that 12-15 total casualties.

The Congresswoman is confirmed dead.

The news is a little sketchy on whether there are 5 or 6 other deaths.

Eric

I just heard a hospital spokeswoman state that she is still alive but in surgery, would not comment about her condition.

Lots of conflicting reports. Time to go train my dogs and not think about this crap for awhile.

Now hearing that there was a federal judged there that was shot and killed. More unconfirmed reports.

Eric Johnson
01-08-2011, 03:18 PM
As of now....19 casualties including 5 dead. Congresswoman is still reported alive and in surgery.

Yep....in the rush to be first, the stations are just sort of taking random statements and stirring them up.

Eric

Gawthorpe
01-08-2011, 05:01 PM
I went to high school with Congress woman Gabby. She was very fortunate to be so close to the University of Arizona Medical Center. I hope she survives and recovers 100%.

To her shooter I wish that he gets to use the Arizona Death Penalty.

Snicklefritz
01-08-2011, 05:53 PM
This is just horrific. Recrimination will come, but IMHO, this not a 2nd Amendment issue.

Snick

dback
01-08-2011, 05:58 PM
As of now....19 casualties including 5 dead. Congresswoman is still reported alive and in surgery.

Yep....in the rush to be first, the stations are just sort of taking random statements and stirring them up.

Eric

This is the latest we have. Among the five apparently was a Fed Judge who had numerous threats made due to a ruling he made about the rights of illegals to file suit against American land owners. Shooter is 22 yo and I forget his name but they still have no motive.

Senseless... Gabby was one of the good guys (even though a Dem) she worked hard, listened to both sides.....a very good servant. Very stupid stuff.

dnf777
01-08-2011, 05:58 PM
I agree with Snick. this has NOTHING to do with the second amendment.

I do, however hope that we tone down the "second amendment solution" and "lock and load" rhetoric coming from politicians of any ilk. Especially "candidates in the crosshairs" web sites, as has been reported to exist.

Buzz
01-08-2011, 06:19 PM
this not a 2nd Amendment issue.

Snick


You can believe that the anti gun nuts will be all over it.

dback
01-08-2011, 06:37 PM
You can believe that the anti gun nuts will be all over it.

Bet on it.......

Death toll is now six.......9 year old child

BonMallari
01-08-2011, 06:52 PM
You can believe that the anti gun nuts will be all over it.

unfortunately you will be correct..the politicos are also waiting in the wings to see who they can attach this nut job to...apparently this nut liked Mein Kampf and other type of manifestos....

its a sad day in our country for all Americans

Buzz
01-08-2011, 07:02 PM
unfortunately you will be correct..the politicos are also waiting in the wings to see who they can attach this nut job to...apparently this nut liked Mein Kampf and other type of manifestos....

its a sad day in our country for all Americans

I just did a survey of the internet blogs. The righties think he's a lefty. The lefties think he's a righty. From what I've seen the guy pretty much sounds like a psychotic.



Bet on it.......

Death toll is now six.......9 year old child


That's just terrible. When I read this it got me to thinking about when Daschle came to town for a campaign event and we took our young daughter to let her meet someone she saw on TV and get her picture taken with him. You hate to think you're putting your children's lives in danger going to something like this, but it appears that you are...

Snicklefritz
01-08-2011, 07:06 PM
unfortunately you will be correct..the politicos are also waiting in the wings to see who they can attach this nut job to...apparently this nut liked Mein Kampf and other type of manifestos....

its a sad day in our country for all Americans

No need to hang this on a nut job..."We have met the enemy, and he is us!" - Pogo

This is not about the 2nd Amendment, but it may prompt us to consider the responsible use of our 1st Amendment rights.

Has the rhetoric gotten out of hand?

Snick - I survived the 60's! Not so sure anymore...

luvmylabs23139
01-08-2011, 07:08 PM
Link to a screenshot of his myspace page.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5082/5337086764_4de868c256_o.jpg

BonMallari
01-08-2011, 07:08 PM
My only question is where was the security or the police...Arizona has open carry laws if I am not mistaken, hard to imagine that someone wasnt packing and taking the shooter out...its hard to believe any elected official going in public without some sort of security

Matt McKenzie
01-08-2011, 07:20 PM
No need to hang this on a nut job..."We have met the enemy, and he is us!" - Pogo

This is not about the 2nd Amendment, but it may prompt us to consider the responsible use of our 1st Amendment rights.

Has the rhetoric gotten out of hand?

Snick - I survived the 60's! Not so sure anymore...

Please don't start the whole, "he did this because of hate speech", stuff. It isn't rhetoric that makes crazy people do crazy things. It isn't rock music and it isn't video games. It isn't about gun control and it isn't about immigration. It isn't about Dem or Republican or liberal or conservative. Sometimes crazy people do crazy things. They may become serial killers or they may shoot up a high school or they might go into an Amish community and kill a bunch of children. They might even blow up a Federal government building or mail letter bombs. Idiots on both sides of the political spectrum will attempt to attach him to the other side, but the truth is he's just a crazy guy who isn't a liberal or a conservative or a Democrat or a Republican. He's just a lunatic.
Let's focus on the innocent victims of this guy's lunacy and pray for them and their families and friends. What a tragedy.

depittydawg
01-08-2011, 07:24 PM
You can believe that the anti gun nuts will be all over it.

?????? Anti Gun Nuts????? Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't see any "anti gun nuts" pulling triggers. I see right wing "nuts", incited by irresponsible leaders like Sarah Palin and the crazy Governor from Az! This congresswoman has been under attack by natioanl and local right wing media, pundits, and leadership for a long time.
I agree, this is NOT a second amendment issue. But it is an issue that involves the hatred and intolerance that has become such a normal occurrence within the right wing leadership. The sick bastard that pulled this trigger has had months of encouragement to pull the trigger. That, is where this debate needs to go. Not, to the 2nd amendment.

Hoosier
01-08-2011, 07:47 PM
?????? Anti Gun Nuts????? Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't see any "anti gun nuts" pulling triggers. I see right wing "nuts", incited by irresponsible leaders like Sarah Palin and the crazy Governor from Az! This congresswoman has been under attack by natioanl and local right wing media, pundits, and leadership for a long time.
I agree, this is NOT a second amendment issue. But it is an issue that involves the hatred and intolerance that has become such a normal occurrence within the right wing leadership. The sick bastard that pulled this trigger has had months of encouragement to pull the trigger. That, is where this debate needs to go. Not, to the 2nd amendment.

That's about the biggest bunch of BS I've ever read on this forum. Normal people don't do shit like that, no matter what their political beliefs

Snicklefritz
01-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Please don't start the whole, "he did this because of hate speech", stuff. It isn't rhetoric that makes crazy people do crazy things. It isn't rock music and it isn't video games. It isn't about gun control and it isn't about immigration. It isn't about Dem or Republican or liberal or conservative. Sometimes crazy people do crazy things. They may become serial killers or they may shoot up a high school or they might go into an Amish community and kill a bunch of children. They me tht even blow up a Federal government building or mail letter bombs. Idiots on both sides of the political spectrum will attempt to attach him to the other side, but the truth is he's just a crazy guy who isn't a liberal or a conservative or a Democrat or a Republican. He's just a lunatic.
Let's focus on the innocent victims this guy's lunacy and pray for them and their families and friends. What a I tragedy.

Well...you seem to be assured about what this is NOT about! It's about 'lunatics'! Please google the stats about about mental illness in the US. The numbers are staggering. Then we can all go to bed and just write the whole thing off as a mental aberation.

BTW - I think you're right about remembering the suffering of the survivors.

Snick

Snicklefritz
01-08-2011, 08:19 PM
That's act the biggest bunch of BS I've ever read on this forum. Normal people don't do shit like that, no matter what their political beliefs (emphasis mine)

OK, write it off as the act of an 'abnormal' individual, and sleep well in the knowledge that 'normal' people are just not affected by what other people say. Madison Avenue might disagree.

BTW - your post is a case in point about the level of rhetoric.

Snick

depittydawg
01-08-2011, 08:47 PM
That's about the biggest bunch of BS I've ever read on this forum. Normal people don't do shit like that, no matter what their political beliefs

Well all I will say is that to ignor the power of media is to ignor reality. Media moves people. Especially radically charged people. Period. I suggest you study the history of Germany, Iran, or for a very recent example the impact of hate radio in Rwanda in the nineties. You seem very strong in your beliefs, or denials. If you have an open mind at all, I suggest you do some research into the power media has over people.

Marvin S
01-08-2011, 09:40 PM
I agree with all that this was a tragedy that should not have happened & feel some compassion for all directly involved.

Some random thoughts:

While it is no excuse for what happened- the Congress critter doesn't sound as moderate as dback described her according to news reports. I was taught as a young man that you are responsible for your own actions. Did the congresscritter do a little inciting on her own?

For those on the MaryJane thread - apparently this guy was a user, kind of belittles your argument about it not affecting the mental stability of users!!!!!!!!!!!

If it would have been an R, would BHO have dispatched the FBI Director, I think not & don't want to find out.

Were I in charge I would make sure everyone involved with this nut case was thoroughly vetted. & if it was found that they in any way encouraged this to happen or thought it might I would sign them up as accomplices. In the bureaucracies desire to deinstitutionalize these people too many dangerous people are on the streets. I believe that to be an ACLU & government issue as they are responsible for that.

just my :2c: worth!!!!!!!!!

Nor_Cal_Angler
01-08-2011, 09:52 PM
Well all I will say is that to ignor the power of media is to ignor reality. Media moves people. Especially radically charged people. Period. I suggest you study the history of Germany, Iran, or for a very recent example the impact of hate radio in Rwanda in the nineties. You seem very strong in your beliefs, or denials. If you have an open mind at all, I suggest you do some research into the power media has over people.

My research, has lead me to the sound reasoning that the Left Wing Media that controls the overwhelming majority of the "news" today has done much to radically charge people. If you have an open mind, I challenge you to openly accept that radical progressive, liberal media vehemently attacked the two policical person's you charged in your first post more than any right wing media source's attack's on political person's of the left.

This act of violence is not or should not be a means for this nation to futher the finger pointing...these are trying times for this nation, it isnt a suprise to me at least that something like this would happen...it is sad, and a terrible thing to have happen but tough times brings out the worst or the best in some people....

Lets all take a moment, pause and reflect, is this something that we want to control our mindset with regard towards one another...or is this something that we can gather strength from and come together.

NCA

BrianW
01-08-2011, 10:08 PM
I see right wing "nuts", incited by irresponsible leaders like Sarah Palin and the crazy Governor from Az! .
I agree, this is NOT a second amendment issue. But it is an issue that involves the hatred and intolerance that has become such a normal occurrence within the right wing leadership. The sick bastard that pulled this trigger has had months of encouragement to pull the trigger. That, is where this debate needs to go.

Question for you newlab; In the "irresponsible leaders" and "months of encouragement", do you find ANY culpability in the President's rhetoric as well? What do you think THAT does to someone who may be on the edge?

Now I am NOT condoning the actions of Loughner by any means. But to point the finger at the "right wing" only is to ignore the level escalated by both sides. When the leader of your nation calls you "the enemy" because you oppose his policies for "fundamentally transforming the country", how long does it take for a mentally unstable person to say "Ok, I am."
You post to "study the history of Germany", when the Speaker of the House describes those on the other side of the aisle as "Nazis" when they are actually opposing the national socialism of health care, industry, finance, et al, what does that do to the amount of vitriol?

There are no "clean hands" on either side of this tragedy.

Let us all hope that there are no more actions along these lines and ALL of our national leaders take a step back and think VERY carefully about their statements/responses/future actions in the wake of this shooting in Tucson, and don't light any more fuses that are out there just waiting for the smallest of sparks.

My deepest sympathies and prayers go out to all those touched by today's events. :sad:

david gibson
01-08-2011, 10:18 PM
i was wondering how long it would take until someone would blame an entire political segment for the actions of a lone lunatic.

a sad, sad day indeed, in more ways than one.

mjh345
01-08-2011, 11:19 PM
We don't know anything about the shooter; so to generalize & blame any ideaology for one wacko is always stupid.
It would be even more so for him in light of not knowing what motivated him at this time.
Not only stupid but premature[not that ever bothers some of you on here]

depittydawg
01-09-2011, 12:00 AM
i was wondering how long it would take until someone would blame an entire political segment for the actions of a lone lunatic.

a sad, sad day indeed, in more ways than one.

Here is what the Arizona Sheriff said.

The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it occurring in Arizona.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

The sadest part of this story, is that so many people, both left and right, (but certainly skewed far to the right at this moment in history) refuse to acknowledge the link between hate rhetoric and intolerance, and the violence it incites.

luvmylabs23139
01-09-2011, 12:10 AM
The Sheriff is a far left leaning liberal. He should stick to the facts and keep his political opinions out of it.

JDogger
01-09-2011, 12:54 AM
The Sheriff is a far left leaning liberal. He should stick to the facts and keep his political opinions out of it.

He has as much right to his opinion as do you and I Luvy. JD

depittydawg
01-09-2011, 01:14 AM
The Sheriff is a far left leaning liberal. He should stick to the facts and keep his political opinions out of it.

Well, since he lives down their and deals with the hate daily, I think his word is pretty important.
2nd point. I find it a stretch to believe that a "far left leaning liberal" would be elected to anything in Arizona, let alone Sheriff.

luvmylabs23139
01-09-2011, 01:31 AM
He's a democrat and anti SB1040. That qualifies as a far left leaning liberal.

Franco
01-09-2011, 10:03 AM
Did he rule in favor of the illegals or in favor of the American Land Owners

Pete

The judge ruled in favor of the illegals.

This morning is the first I'm hearing of this and I'm still reading various reports.

Those found guilty should pay with thier lives.

depittydawg
01-09-2011, 10:26 AM
He's a democrat and anti SB1040. That qualifies as a far left leaning liberal.

To the rest of the country, he sounds like a moderate. At any rate, do you suggest that if he is a lefty, his opinion is not valid?

luvmylabs23139
01-09-2011, 10:35 AM
To the rest of the country, he sounds like a moderate. At any rate, do you suggest that if he is a lefty, his opinion is not valid?

NO, what I am saying is as the Sheriff he should stick to the known facts rather than bring his personal political views into the situtation. He should not be trying to turn this political based on his position as law enforcement especially when very few facts were known at the time.

Interesting that you have zero posts on the main forum. Do you even own a lab?

EdA
01-09-2011, 11:21 AM
The judge ruled in favor of the illegals.

This morning is the first I'm hearing of this and I'm still reading various reports.

Those found guilty should pay with thier lives.

I sincerely hope you are not implying that political assassination is an acceptable form of discourse. If you are and this is a widely held belief we are doomed to anarchy or worse.

From eyewitness reports after the Congresswoman was shot he began shooting randomly.

starjack
01-09-2011, 11:58 AM
?????? Anti Gun Nuts????? Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't see any "anti gun nuts" pulling triggers. I see right wing "nuts", incited by irresponsible leaders like Sarah Palin and the crazy Governor from Az! This congresswoman has been under attack by natioanl and local right wing media, pundits, and leadership for a long time.
I agree, this is NOT a second amendment issue. But it is an issue that involves the hatred and intolerance that has become such a normal occurrence within the right wing leadership. The sick bastard that pulled this trigger has had months of encouragement to pull the trigger. That, is where this debate needs to go. Not, to the 2nd amendment.

The hammering Sarah Palin takes day in and day out. Buy the main stream media. Then you babble about how she is irresponsible. I think it would be wise of you to look at both side of the street before running your thoughts that its all the rights fault.

code3retrievers
01-09-2011, 12:09 PM
To the rest of the country, he sounds like a moderate. At any rate, do you suggest that if he is a lefty, his opinion is not valid?


To the rest of the country, he sounds like a moderate. At any rate, do you suggest that if he is a lefty, his opinion is not valid?

I don't know where you live but it sure is not in AZ. This sherrif is not a moderate. He is pro illegal imigration and panders to the left which elects him.

A sherrif, in his official capacity should not be givning his personal opinion as to why a suspect committed a crime. His job is to investigate the facts and arrest those responsible, but not give his personal view on a crime that was just committed hours before. This guy is unprofessional to say the very least.

It's sad that you would blame others for inciting this person to commit this crime. I don't remember anyone saying John Hinckley was incited by the left when he shot Reagan. (He was just crazy) I guess you lefties have to always assign blameto some segment of society so you can "fix" it with a government regulation of program.

How about you wait for the facts to come out before you start condeming Palin, Brewer and others from the center right.

Franco
01-09-2011, 12:21 PM
I sincerely hope you are not implying that political assassination is an acceptable form of discourse. If you are and this is a widely held belief we are doomed to anarchy or worse.

From eyewitness reports after the Congresswoman was shot he began shooting randomly.

No, I don't condone the shooting.

Someone asked the question and I replied.

I also said those guilty should pay!

dnf777
01-09-2011, 12:31 PM
yet another totally worthless paritsan bickering thread.....

Right blames the left, left blames the right.

The lunatic was a lib, the lunatic was a RWE.


Hmmmm....how predictable and useless can this thread be??

Time to throw some marks....

Franco
01-09-2011, 12:40 PM
To the rest of the country, he sounds like a moderate. At any rate, do you suggest that if he is a lefty, his opinion is not valid?
To most of the country, he would be classified as Liberal. In most polls, 78% around the country agreed with SB1040.

BonMallari
01-09-2011, 01:06 PM
yet another totally worthless paritsan bickering thread.....

Right blames the left, left blames the right.

The lunatic was a lib, the lunatic was a RWE.


Hmmmm....how predictable and useless can this thread be??

Time to throw some marks....

whole heartedly agree...this tragedy SHOULD have no political overtones..its a whack job ..whatever his motives may or may not have been, we need to not lose sight of the fact that 6 people lost their lives, not how their political views or in the case of the judge how he ruled..there was a totally innocent 9 yr old girl that lost her life..

road kill
01-09-2011, 01:10 PM
My condolences to the people and families involved.
In regard to any other comments, I will wait until I can see some facts.

It is pretty tasteless to get involved in partisan bickering at this point.



stan b

Troopers Mom
01-09-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't know where you live but it sure is not in AZ. This sherrif is not a moderate. He is pro illegal imigration and panders to the left which elects him.

A sherrif, in his official capacity should not be givning his personal opinion as to why a suspect committed a crime. His job is to investigate the facts and arrest those responsible, but not give his personal view on a crime that was just committed hours before. This guy is unprofessional to say the very least.

It's sad that you would blame others for inciting this person to commit this crime. I don't remember anyone saying John Hinckley was incited by the left when he shot Reagan. (He was just crazy) I guess you lefties have to always assign blameto some segment of society so you can "fix" it with a government regulation of program.

How about you wait for the facts to come out before you start condeming Palin, Brewer and others from the center right.

I don't like to get into political discussions because they really go nowhere, but I have to agree with John here on Sheriff Dupnik. I'm going to say some things I probably shouldn't, but then I've never been known to shy away from controversy. :rolleyes:

I lived in Tucson for 28 years before coming to the Phoenix area. I lived in a very small tight neighborhood where we knew everyone and most activities were centered around the elementary school. I did a lot of volunteer work at the school. Sheriff Dupnik's two daughters were in the same classes with my two sons. This was before he was Sheriff but with the Tucson Police Dept. I had another friend in the neighborhood who also had children in the school. She worked nights as a telephone operator. This was way before the telephone systems were very automated. She would tell me of conversations overheard through the switchboard where the Sheriff would call home and berate and threaten his wife. She was a very sweet browbeaten woman. Shortly after the kids left elementary school and went on to junior high where the neighborhoods expanded and we lost close touch with families like before, Sheriff Dupnik became divorced due to domestic violence.

Now, I can't keep track of the full meaning of left versus right, moderate, liberal, radical, etc. I just judge people by their personal attitudes and behavior. In this case, I have no idea where Sheriff Dupnik stands politically. He was a very intense man that many people were intimidated by and afraid of. I would probably have to put him in somewhat of the same category as Sheriff Joe Arpaio due to the fact that they are both very intense, dominating men who believe in their own ideals so strongly that they are not afraid to go to extremes to achieve their goals. I strongly support many of their ideals while shaking my head at many of their activities. My youngest son has worked for both men, being in the Pima County Corrections system and then in the Maricopa County Corrections for a number of years.

If one wanted to know of a really colorful Sheriff, one would have to go back in time in Pima County to Sheriff Burr. This was a very corrupt Sheriff and really gave Tucson the "Wild West" reputation.

Just my two cents,

Oh, I forgot to add one thing, while talking to my other son in Tucson, I discovered that my grandson was in the same class at Mountain View High school with the shooter. I'm dying to hear what he might know of the guy, but as my son said, this is a very big school and they may not have even known each other.

Arleen

road kill
01-09-2011, 02:06 PM
?????? Anti Gun Nuts????? Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't see any "anti gun nuts" pulling triggers. I see right wing "nuts", incited by irresponsible leaders like Sarah Palin and the crazy Governor from Az! This congresswoman has been under attack by natioanl and local right wing media, pundits, and leadership for a long time.
I agree, this is NOT a second amendment issue. But it is an issue that involves the hatred and intolerance that has become such a normal occurrence within the right wing leadership. The sick bastard that pulled this trigger has had months of encouragement to pull the trigger. That, is where this debate needs to go. Not, to the 2nd amendment.

That is just about the worst post I have ever seen on the POTUS board.

And I have seen some dandys.

What a disgrace........


RK

depittydawg
01-09-2011, 02:42 PM
That is just about the worst post I have ever seen on the POTUS board.

And I have seen some dandys.

What a disgrace........


RK

Ok, so you're on record as supporting the hatred and intolerance portrayed daily from America's mainstream leaders? Good for you. I am proud to stand against you.

depittydawg
01-09-2011, 02:48 PM
yet another totally worthless paritsan bickering thread.....

Right blames the left, left blames the right.

The lunatic was a lib, the lunatic was a RWE.


Hmmmm....how predictable and useless can this thread be??

Time to throw some marks....

It doesn't matter if the lunatic was a LWN, or a RWN. He was a nut. To ignore, or worse yet, condone or support the political rhetoric that incites nuts like this into action is not a partisan issue. And it is a debate that needs to occur in this country. The victim, or one of the vitims, Ms Giffords, personally raised the issue of the venomous Political Discourse prior to her being shot in the head. American's, including several around here it would seem, need to step out of denial mode, and recognize that this is a serious problem, with inevitable disasterous repercussions. Again, it is not a partisan issue.

luvmylabs23139
01-09-2011, 02:53 PM
It doesn't matter if the lunatic was a LWN, or a RWN. He was a nut. To ignore, or worse yet, condone or support the political rhetoric that incites nuts like this into action is not a partisan issue. And it is a debate that needs to occur in this country. The victim, or one of the vitims, Ms Giffords, personally raised the issue of the venomous Political Discourse prior to her being shot in the head. American's, including several around here it would seem, need to step out of denial mode, and recognize that this is a serious problem, with inevitable disasterous repercussions. Again, it is not a partisan issue.

Maybe Obama should set a better example. Acording to him anyone who disagrees with his policies is "THE ENEMY".:rolleyes:
Let's not forget Pelosi,disagree with her SOCIALIST WAYS and you are a "Natzi". :rolleyes:

dnf777
01-09-2011, 03:02 PM
It doesn't matter if the lunatic was a LWN, or a RWN. He was a nut. To ignore, or worse yet, condone or support the political rhetoric that incites nuts like this into action is not a partisan issue. And it is a debate that needs to occur in this country. The victim, or one of the vitims, Ms Giffords, personally raised the issue of the venomous Political Discourse prior to her being shot in the head. American's, including several around here it would seem, need to step out of denial mode, and recognize that this is a serious problem, with inevitable disasterous repercussions. Again, it is not a partisan issue.

I've already stated my opinion on the uselessness of this thread.

If anything GOOD can come of this, it would be to realize that there are whackos out there, of both or neither party, who can act upon rhetoric that most of us realize is just that. Totally non-partisan observation.

I would personally like to see internet "hit lists", "candidates in the crosshairs", and "lock and load" rhetoric toned down.....wherever and by whomever it is occurring.

As for labelling this wacko, or the guy who flew a plane into a building, is a total waste of time.

Prayers to all injured or killed.....but as a parent, ESPECIALLY to the family of that innocent 9 year old. I can't begin to imagine the agony.

road kill
01-09-2011, 03:03 PM
Ok, so you're on record as supporting the hatred and intolerance portrayed daily from America's mainstream leaders? Good for you. I am proud to stand against you.

I believe I am on record saying your post is the worst I have ever seen here, seething with hatred.



Originally Posted by newlab
?????? Anti Gun Nuts????? Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't see any "anti gun nuts" pulling triggers. I see right wing "nuts", incited by irresponsible leaders like Sarah Palin and the crazy Governor from Az! This congresswoman has been under attack by natioanl and local right wing media, pundits, and leadership for a long time.
I agree, this is NOT a second amendment issue. But it is an issue that involves the hatred and intolerance that has become such a normal occurrence within the right wing leadership. The sick bastard that pulled this trigger has had months of encouragement to pull the trigger. That, is where this debate needs to go. Not, to the 2nd amendment.




It doesn't matter if the lunatic was a LWN, or a RWN. He was a nut. To ignore, or worse yet, condone or support the political rhetoric that incites nuts like this into action is not a partisan issue. And it is a debate that needs to occur in this country. The victim, or one of the vitims, Ms Giffords, personally raised the issue of the venomous Political Discourse prior to her being shot in the head. American's, including several around here it would seem, need to step out of denial mode, and recognize that this is a serious problem, with inevitable disasterous repercussions. Again, it is not a partisan issue


Try to get your hateful BS straight, would you??

PEACE!!


RK

Julie R.
01-09-2011, 03:45 PM
American's, including several around here it would seem, need to step out of denial mode, and recognize that this is a serious problem, with inevitable disasterous repercussions. Again, it is not a partisan issue.

RK already pointed out what a mewling hypocrite you are. So I'll just second what he said and add that despite the fact that many regulars here normally enjoy going after each other's throats over differing political beliefs, no one assigned blame for this tragedy to a set of political beliefs until you burst on the scene.
And, it's Americans plural, not American's singular possessive with an apostrophe. Oh, sorry, maybe you're still in grammar school. Just trying to help you out here. Which door did you come in?

depittydawg
01-09-2011, 04:17 PM
I believe I am on record saying your post is the worst I have ever seen here, seething with hatred.


Try to get your hateful BS straight, would you??

PEACE!!


RK

This is not about me. I didn't put the crosshairs on Palin's website in reference to Gifford. Nor did I write that Congresswoman Gifford was "dead to me" on the Daily Kos website. Both are examples of political extremism. Both have become the norm in America.

What is it about toning down the exreme 'hatred' expoused daily within our political media that you find so objectionalble that you can't even discuss it?

sinner
01-09-2011, 04:17 PM
A quote from the victum!
"We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list," Giffords said at the time. "The way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize there are consequences to that action."
Enough said.

depittydawg
01-09-2011, 05:12 PM
RK already pointed out what a mewling hypocrite you are. So I'll just second what he said and add that despite the fact that many regulars here normally enjoy going after each other's throats over differing political beliefs, no one assigned blame for this tragedy to a set of political beliefs until you burst on the scene.
And, it's Americans plural, not American's singular possessive with an apostrophe. Oh, sorry, maybe you're still in grammar school. Just trying to help you out here. Which door did you come in?

Since this discussion has somehow become about me to some of you, instead of the important issue our country facies, I'l bow out now. I suggest you read the words the victim of this horrible tragedy expressed on the subject prior to her being shot. Then you can call her names instead of me. Because what I said, what almost a direct quote of what she had been saying for quite some time.

No bad feeling - good luck folks

luvmylabs23139
01-09-2011, 09:52 PM
A quote from the victum!
"We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list," Giffords said at the time. "The way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize there are consequences to that action."
Enough said.


“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun” – Obama, 6/14/2008 .

Enough said! Your boy is no angel!

JDogger
01-09-2011, 10:18 PM
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun” – Obama, 6/14/2008 .

Enough said! Your boy is no angel!

Good way to 'cool' the rhetoric luvy...JD

Wake up. It's not your guy, or my guy, once elected, it's our guy. You'll have another chance, I promise. JD

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 09:44 AM
A quote from the victum!
"We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list," Giffords said at the time. "The way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize there are consequences to that action."
Enough said.

Hmm, maybe it was a result of this crosshairs posting from the left targeting her. Give me a few minutes and I will also find crosshair map from the dems from 2004.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png?w=510&h=384&h=384 (http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png)

Colonel Blimp
01-10-2011, 09:54 AM
I scanned this from today's "Times".
As Gabrielle Giffords, the Democrat Representative, conducted one of her regular open meetings outside the Safeway supermarket in Tucson, Arizona, she was approached by a gunman and shot at close range with a semi-automatic Glock pistol.

Miraculously, the bullet passed through her head without exploding and Ms Giffords is expected to survive. Unfortunately, not every victim of Jared Lee Loughner's shooting spree was as lucky. Six people were shot dead. It is always tempting, and usually wrong, to draw sweeping conclusions from isolated cases.

Witnesses lined up to denounce Loughner as a disruptive oddball with a troubled past. The act of taking a gun and unloading its contents in a public place is, obviously enough, extreme. All such events are, to that degree. exceptions to the rule of their times rather than explanations of the times.

Nevertheless, the dreadful case has illustrated that American politics has a strain of meanspiritedness that, when it connects to disturbed individuals, can have terrible consequences.

Before he went out on his mission to kill Loughner had posted videos and messages on social networking websites that displayed an angry animus against government. He described US laws as "treasonous" and called for the creation of a new currency. The standard distrust of federal action which is encoded in the US Constitution finds a distorted echo on the far right of American politics where scepticism turns to nihilism. The problem is especially acute in Arizona which the Sheriff of Pima County, Clarence Dupnik, called“the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry". Ms Giffords had her office vandalised last March after she upset Arizona conservatives by supporting President Obama's healthcare reform bill. She was also threatened by someone with a gun during the mid-term election campaign in November.

The Arizona campaign was conducted in a foul atmosphere, as Ms Giffords held off the challenge of the Tea Party candidate by just 4.000 votes. Ms Giffords was on Sarah Palins list of candidates that should be targeted to be removed from office.

That campaign's logo had the crosshairs of a gunsight over the Arizona district, the stupidity of which was remarked upon at the time. A closer inspection of Ms Giffords' political views would also have revealed that, although she supports a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants and is intrigued by the possibility of solar power, her support for Mr Obama's healthcare reform bill hardly qualifies her to be on the left of her party. Like most Arizona Democrats, she is a centrist politician, one of the fiscal conservatives in the House of Representatives known as the blue dog caucus. She helped to put together the Gl bill which assists veterans of Iraq an-d Afghanistan to gain college degrees. She is a former registered Republican and a gun owner whose first significant act in Congress was to push for a national day in recognition of cowboys.

The hope that Barack Obama's remarkable ascent to the Presidency would help to unite America has, for some time now, seemed forlorn. The culture wars are alive and thriving. articulated with populist skill by the Tea Party candidates reacting against what they see as the un-American big government initiatives of President Obama's stimulus package and healthcare reforms.

This is a legitimate argument. America is a pleasingly raucous democracy and these cases need to be tested in the chambers of public debate. It is also wrong to attribute the actions of disturbed individuals directly to the inflamed rhetoric that issues from the political class. However, it is still possible to express dissent in a reasonable way that neither impugns the motives of opponents nor gives unintended succour to those on the fringes who harbour extreme views and even worse methods.

As a regular visitor to the US over the years I've certainly noticed (and been appalled by) the decline of robust political debate into vituperation and hatred.

The guy in question was indeed a nutter, but he didn't live in a vacuum.

regards
Eug

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 10:08 AM
Here is an official democrat target map from 2004.
The dems were using taget maps back then so why is ok for them to do it but not republicans?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg?w=397&h=355&h=355 (http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg)

dixidawg
01-10-2011, 10:12 AM
Do you happen to have a link for that?

Nor_Cal_Angler
01-10-2011, 10:26 AM
Dixi...

The DLC used it in 2004...its legit...I believe DLC.org...democrat ledership committee.


NCA

road kill
01-10-2011, 10:32 AM
Libel is No Path to a Civil Society

All of us at The Heritage Foundation were profoundly saddened by the tragedy that occurred this past Saturday morning in Tucson, Arizona. We mourn all of those who lost their lives and are praying for a full recovery by all of the surviving victims. As Speaker John Boehner said Saturday, "An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve."

Unfortunately, some have chosen to use this tragedy for political gain. Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, the Democrat who refused to enforce SB 1070, told FOX News' Megyn Kelly this weekend that the shooting was caused by an "atmosphere" created when "one party trying to block the attempts of another party to make this country better. " In case there is any doubt in your mind who Sheriff Dupnik was talking about, one veteran Democratic operative, who, like Sheriff Dupnik, blamed overheated rhetoric for the shooting, told Politico that President Barack Obama should "deftly pin this on the tea partiers."

Pressed by Kelly to identify ANY evidence linking the shooter to the tea party, Sheriff Dupnik admitted he had zero: "That is my opinion. Period."

Americans like Sheriff Dupnik, who claim that they are interested in creating a more civil discourse, ought to think long and hard about pointing their fingers at other peoples' words before making completely unsubstantiated accusations. Those who blame the rhetoric of their political opponents for these heinous crimes, when no such evidence exists, only further coarsen our civil discourse.

It is the mission of The Heritage Foundation to seek an America where freedom, opportunity, prosperity and civil society flourish. A civil discourse is a key component to any functioning civil society. That is why we avoid all ad hominem attacks. But America is also well served by a muscular debate that fleshes out what the ideas are behind the policy proposals being considered. We cannot let one disturbed individual and political opportunists silence debate. That is why attempts to politicize this attack, even while Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) fought for her life immediately after the event, represent the worst, and most cynical aspect of Washington. That is the exact tone that Americans are entirely sick of.

It’s time to heal as a nation, undivided, and under God.

__________________________________________________ _________________

RK

road kill
01-10-2011, 10:52 AM
There is always "more" to the story.

Here is some more;

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

People that knew this lunatic describe him as a "potsmoking left wing nut job."

No mention of him listening to Rush, Hannity or Sarah.

But hey.........


RK

road kill
01-10-2011, 10:54 AM
Hmmmmmmm....even MORE!!

Journalists urged caution after Ft. Hood, now race to blame Palin after Arizona shootings

On November 5, 2009, Maj. Nidal Hasan opened fire at a troop readiness center in Ft. Hood, Texas, killing 13 people. Within hours of the killings, the world knew that Hasan reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before he began shooting, visited websites associated with Islamist violence, wrote Internet postings justifying Muslim suicide bombings, considered U.S. forces his enemy, opposed American involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as wars on Islam, and told a neighbor shortly before the shootings that he was going "to do good work for God." There was ample evidence, in other words, that the Ft. Hood attack was an act of Islamist violence.

Nevertheless, public officials, journalists, and commentators were quick to caution that the public should not "jump to conclusions" about Hasan's motive. CNN, in particular, became a forum for repeated warnings that the subject should be discussed with particular care.

"The important thing is for everyone not to jump to conclusions," said retired Gen. Wesley Clark on CNN the night of the shootings.

"We cannot jump to conclusions," said CNN's Jane Velez-Mitchell that same evening. "We have to make sure that we do not jump to any conclusions whatsoever."

"I'm on Pentagon chat room," said former CIA operative Robert Baer on CNN, also the night of the shooting. "Right now, there's messages going back and forth, saying do not jump to the conclusion this had anything to do with Islam."
The next day, President Obama underscored the rapidly-forming conventional wisdom when he told the country, "I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts." In the days that followed, CNN jouralists and guests repeatedly echoed the president's remarks.

"We can't jump to conclusions," Army Gen. George Casey said on CNN November 8. The next day, political analyst Mark Halperin urged a "transparent" investigation into the shootings "so the American people don't jump to conclusions." And when Republican Rep. Pete Hoekstra, then the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, suggested that the Ft. Hood attack was terrorism, CNN's John Roberts was quick to intervene. "Now, President Obama has asked people to be very cautious here and to not jump to conclusions," Roberts said to Hoekstra. "By saying that you believe this is an act of terror, are you jumping to a conclusion?"

Fast forward a little more than a year, to January 8, 2011. In Tucson, Arizona, a 22 year-old man named Jared Lee Loughner opened fire at a political event, gravely wounding Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, killing a federal judge and five others, and wounding 18. In the hours after the attack, little was known about Loughner beyond some bizarre and largely incomprehensible YouTube postings that, if anything, suggested he was mentally ill. Yet the network that had shown such caution in discussing the Ft. Hood shootings openly discussed the possibility that Loughner was inspired to violence by…Sarah Palin. Although there is no evidence that Loughner was in any way influenced by Palin, CNN was filled with speculation about the former Alaska governor.

After reporting that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik had condemned what Dupnik called "the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government," CNN's Wolf Blitzer turned to congressional reporter Jessica Yellin for analysis. The sheriff "singled out some of the political rhetoric, as you point out, in creating the environment that allowed this kind of instance to happen," Yellin told Blitzer. "Even though, as you point out, this suspect is not cooperating with investigators, so we don't know the motive. President Obama also delivered that message, saying it's partly the political rhetoric that led to this. So that's why we want to bring up one of the themes that's burning up the social media right now. On Twitter and Facebook, there is a lot of talk, in particular, about Sarah Palin. As you might recall, back in March of last year, when the health care vote was coming to the floor of the House and this was all heating up, Palin tweeted out a message on Twitter saying 'common sense conservatives, don't retreat -- instead reload.' And she referred folks to her Facebook page. On that Facebook page was a list of Democratic members she was putting in crosshairs, and Gabrielle Giffords was one of those in the crosshairs."

Yellin noted that Palin had "posted a statement on Facebook saying that 'my sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona. On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families and for peace and justice.'" Yellin continued: "And I should point out that Republican leaders in Washington have said that this is not a partisan issue, this is about violence, as have some tea party groups. But clearly this is a moment to talk about our political rhetoric."

"It certainly is," Blitzer agreed. "But the question is, is there any evidence that the suspected shooter in this particular case was a Sarah Palin fan, read Sarah Palin's website, was a member on Facebook, watched her tweets, or anything like that?"

"None at all," Yellin responded. "And there is no evidence that this was even inspired by rage over health care, broadly. So there is no overt connection between Sarah Palin, health care, and the [shootings]."

Indeed, there is no "overt" or any other sort of connection between Loughner and Palin. If such evidence came to light, it would certainly be news. But without that evidence, and after a brief caveat, the CNN group went back to discussing the theory that Loughner acted out of rage inspired by Palin and other Republicans. Conclusions were jumped to all around.

And it wasn't just CNN. Other media outlets were also filled with speculation about the attack and pronouncements on the state of American political rhetoric. What a markedly different situation from 15 months earlier when, in the face of actual evidence that Maj. Hasan was inspired by Islamist convictions, many media commentators sought to be voices of caution. Where was that caution after the shootings in Arizona?

__________________________________________________ __________________


Lots of jumping going on lately......what a shame.....


RK

dnf777
01-10-2011, 11:18 AM
Here is an official democrat target map from 2004.
The dems were using taget maps back then so why is ok for them to do it but not republicans?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg?w=397&h=355&h=355 (http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg)

Here we go.....tit for tat.

Gee, who saw this coming???? :rolleyes:

Marvin S
01-10-2011, 12:26 PM
she is a centrist politician, one of the fiscal conservatives in the House of Representatives known as the blue dog caucus.

The MSP is now trying to paint her as "conservative", she was Left of center, with a resume' that belied her true leanings. SD was able to see through that smoke screen & threw a congresswoman out, daughter of a well known political family.

As a regular visitor to the US over the years I've certainly noticed (and been appalled by) the decline of robust political debate into vituperation and hatred.

The guy in question was indeed a nutter, but he didn't live in a vacuum.

regards
Eug

The US is no longer "Mayberry", & a lot of events & occurrences pushed it there, not all positive.


Here we go.....tit for tat.

Gee, who saw this coming???? :rolleyes:

Slow day, doc? I find it interesting that the "haters" don't like to have facts get in the way of a sound bite opportunity :(.

dnf777
01-10-2011, 12:45 PM
The US is no longer "Mayberry", & a lot of events & occurrences pushed it there, not all positive.



Slow day, doc? I find it interesting that the "haters" don't like to have facts get in the way of a sound bite opportunity :(.

Marv,
I have no idea what you're carping about?
I've agreed with not assigning blame to anyone except the shooter. And to point out that violent rhetoric, especially referencing guns, will just make like more difficult and expensive for us gun-rights supporters. Already I can see the mailings from the NRA to solicit funding to fight proposed legislation.

I'm just saying that already we're posting web images from both parties, and its become a tit-for-tat, useless partisan bickering. I think I predicted that many posts ago. So here we go.....

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 12:57 PM
The US is no longer "Mayberry", & a lot of events & occurrences pushed it there, not all positive.
:(.

Actually "Mayberry" AKA Mt Airy is not a very nice area. So maybe it is what the US is today. Downtown "Mayberry" is not a place to be outside of 9-5 M-F. Lots of gang activity.

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 01:31 PM
Here we go.....tit for tat.

Gee, who saw this coming???? :rolleyes:

Well if the left including the sheriff who should be investigating a crime and only be using facts (gee isn't that his job) would stop blaming something with zero facts on a crosshairs posting from the right we would not be demonstratin that the left does the exaxt same thing. You will notice that one is from 2004. The other one is from the far left specifically putting her in the crosshairs.
MAybe the left should take a good look in the mirror and see that they have been doing this for years.
Need we forget that OBAMA associates with a known terrorist BILL AYERS.

road kill
01-10-2011, 01:37 PM
Marv,
I have no idea what you're carping about?
I've agreed with not assigning blame to anyone except the shooter. And to point out that violent rhetoric, especially referencing guns, will just make like more difficult and expensive for us gun-rights supporters. Already I can see the mailings from the NRA to solicit funding to fight proposed legislation.

I'm just saying that already we're posting web images from both parties, and its become a tit-for-tat, useless partisan bickering. I think I predicted that many posts ago. So here we go.....

I am just posting facts, if that's partisan to you....well, I guess I understand!!!:D


RK

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 01:45 PM
I am just posting facts, if that's partisan to you....well, I guess I understand!!!:D


RK

All I have done too is provide facts. Of course we should not show statements from the left, the President, or Sec of State Clinton. Let me go find her quote and post it.:rolleyes:
The dems'are just so innocent? Yeah right.:rolleyes:

dnf777
01-10-2011, 02:28 PM
All I have done too is provide facts. Of course we should not show statements from the left, the President, or Sec of State Clinton. Let me go find her quote and post it.:rolleyes:
The dems'are just so innocent? Yeah right.:rolleyes:

Case in point. I never said left or right. I said BOTH sides need to tone down the rhetoric. Not very partisan when put that way, is it?

But here we go....but HE did it too, look see?? THEY started it....
Obama hangs out with terrorists....

You guys knock yourselves out. Play the blame game all day. It won't solve a thing, and meanwhile, the anti-gun crowd is going to be all over us like ugly on an ape.

Roger Perry
01-10-2011, 02:30 PM
Well if the left including the sheriff who should be investigating a crime and only be using facts (gee isn't that his job) would stop blaming something with zero facts on a crosshairs posting from the right we would not be demonstratin that the left does the exaxt same thing. You will notice that one is from 2004. The other one is from the far left specifically putting her in the crosshairs.
MAybe the left should take a good look in the mirror and see that they have been doing this for years.
Need we forget that OBAMA associates with a known terrorist BILL AYERS.

So is this the position the righties take?????

Republican Rep.-elect Allen West’s selection of fiery conservative radio talker Joyce Kaufman to be his congressional chief of staff has caused a national stir since The Palm Beach Post‘s Jose Lambiet broke the news of West’s plans (http://www.page2live.com/2010/11/09/exclusive-allen-west-dials-radio-talker-joyce-kaufman-for-chief-of-staff/) Monday night.
Among the Kaufman clips ricocheting around the Internets is the above one of her remarks at a July 3 tea party rally in which she says (around the 6:00 mark): “I don’t care how this gets painted by the mainstream media, I don’t care if this shows up on YouTube, because I am convinced the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendment rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don’t work, bullets will.”

http://www.postonpolitics.com/2010/11/uproar-death-threats-over-wests-new-staff-chief-and-her-ballots-vs-bullets-remark/

dixidawg
01-10-2011, 02:33 PM
Roger,

Just curious.

What do you think is the intended purpose of the 2nd amendment?

road kill
01-10-2011, 02:37 PM
So is this the position the righties take?????

Republican Rep.-elect Allen West’s selection of fiery conservative radio talker Joyce Kaufman to be his congressional chief of staff has caused a national stir since The Palm Beach Post‘s Jose Lambiet broke the news of West’s plans (http://www.page2live.com/2010/11/09/exclusive-allen-west-dials-radio-talker-joyce-kaufman-for-chief-of-staff/) Monday night.
Among the Kaufman clips ricocheting around the Internets is the above one of her remarks at a July 3 tea party rally in which she says (around the 6:00 mark): “I don’t care how this gets painted by the mainstream media, I don’t care if this shows up on YouTube, because I am convinced the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendment rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don’t work, bullets will.”

http://www.postonpolitics.com/2010/11/uproar-death-threats-over-wests-new-staff-chief-and-her-ballots-vs-bullets-remark/

There is always more.....here is the more;

"MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow featured the clip on her show Tuesday night. When PostOnPolitics went to interview Kaufman at WFTL on Wednesday morning, the meeting was delayed while a police detective spoke to Kaufman about death threats Kaufman said came in after Maddow’s show. "

From the same article, Roger inadverdently left this out!!:D

Roger also is right in line with dnf's post.


Nicely played Rog', remove all doubt!!!;-)


RK

Roger Perry
01-10-2011, 02:39 PM
Roger,

Just curious.

What do you think is the intended purpose of the 2nd amendment?

This is what her statement was in reference to:


As a result of the investigation into a threat that lead to the lockdown of all schools in Broward County, Wednesday, Joyce Kaufman announced on her WFTL radio show, the following day, that she will step down as Chief of Staff to Republican U.S. Rep.-elect Allen West. “Last night, I called congressman-elect Allen West, and I told him I would not be able to accept the position of chief of staff for Congressional District 22,” she said.
According to sources, something Kaufman had said at a tea party rally, set someone off to write a threatening email to that station, early Wednesday morning. During that rally Kaufman said, “If ballots don’t work, bullets will.” MSNBC aired the clip on Rachel Maddow’s TV show, where Maddow offered to introduce viewers to the new crop of conservatives entering office as a result of the Nov. 2 elections….
Police said that soon after MSNBC aired the clip featuring Kaufman, WFTL received an email that stated, in part: “I’m planning something big around the government building here in Broward County, maybe a post office, maybe even a school.”

Buzz
01-10-2011, 02:45 PM
Here is the video, a little over half way through the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB7g3y597fs



This is what her statement was in reference to:


As a result of the investigation into a threat that lead to the lockdown of all schools in Broward County, Wednesday, Joyce Kaufman announced on her WFTL radio show, the following day, that she will step down as Chief of Staff to Republican U.S. Rep.-elect Allen West. “Last night, I called congressman-elect Allen West, and I told him I would not be able to accept the position of chief of staff for Congressional District 22,” she said.
According to sources, something Kaufman had said at a tea party rally, set someone off to write a threatening email to that station, early Wednesday morning. During that rally Kaufman said, “If ballots don’t work, bullets will.” MSNBC aired the clip on Rachel Maddow’s TV show, where Maddow offered to introduce viewers to the new crop of conservatives entering office as a result of the Nov. 2 elections….
Police said that soon after MSNBC aired the clip featuring Kaufman, WFTL received an email that stated, in part: “I’m planning something big around the government building here in Broward County, maybe a post office, maybe even a school.”


http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/3/Liberal_Hunting_License_sticker.jpeg



Roger, this goes well with that.

road kill
01-10-2011, 02:47 PM
http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/3/Liberal_Hunting_License_sticker.jpeg



Roger, this goes well with that.

Do liberals hunt?

Snipes maybe???:cool:



RK

road kill
01-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Just got this e-mail;

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/29/palin.noose/

I know, I know, this is different.........


RK

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 05:03 PM
Ron Bloom is the Manufacturing Czar. In the video he admits, “We kind of agree with Mao that power comes largely from the barrel of a gun.”
Doesn’t that make you feel secure?

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 05:19 PM
MOre "hugs and love" from Obama

Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun"
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!"
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!"
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard"
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat"
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it."
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies."
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight."

dnf777
01-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Why has a tragedy like this turned into "lets find EVERY example of a democrat threatening violence and post it on the internet" ???

Just like doublespeak in 1984.

A woman who happens to be a democrat was shot in the head. Next thing you know, the web and radiowaves are abuzz with accusations of how evil democrats are!

Good is evil. Black is white. War is peace regards.....

Buzz
01-10-2011, 05:32 PM
Why has a tragedy like this turned into "lets find EVERY example of a democrat threatening violence and post it on the internet" ???

Just like doublespeak in 1984.

A woman who happens to be a democrat was shot in the head. Next thing you know, the web and radiowaves are abuzz with accusations of how evil democrats are!

Good is evil. Black is white. War is peace regards.....

It's worse than that Dave. He wasn't threatening violence. This is what he said in context:


BLOOM: The second thing about us is we've decided to get on the field. Some unions and our union, in fact, some years ago, largely played defense in these situations. We had what we had and we tried to protect it. What we realized through long and often painful experience is that management matters, business strategy matters, capital structure matters, ownership matters. We spent a long time trying to clean up the messes that others had left us. And so now we try to create our own messes. This is more dangerous politically, it's more difficult. It has higher risk. We think it has higher reward. But in any event, in these cases where we can be on the field, you should expect to find us on the field.

Generally speaking, we get the joke. We know that the free market is nonsense. We know that the whole point is to game the system, to beat the market, or at least find someone who will pay you a lot of money because they're convinced that there is a free lunch. We know this is largely about power, that it's an adults-only, no-limit game. We kind of agree with Mao that political power comes largely from the barrel of a gun. And we get it that if you want a friend you should get a dog.

This stuff isn't hard to understand. He strung together a bunch of aphorisms to make the point that the union wasn't going to lay down, it was going to fight from now on.

The part about capitalism wasn't him saying that he doesn't believe in capitalism, he's stating that companies were not playing free market capitalism, they are gaming the system.

But if you go to the website where luvvy cut and pasted her statement from and look at the clip you see that they cut select sentences from that statement and string them together to create a shameless lie.

Yup, it's been lefties showing up and shouting down our representatives at meetings, and openly carrying firearms to political events. And it's all morally equivalent to the comment that this guy make and had taken out of context.

dnf777
01-10-2011, 05:57 PM
What's interesting Buzz, is me and several other non-conformists here on POTUS, went out of our way to avoid accusing or blaming sarah or other talkers, and instead laid the blame directly on the shooter, where it belongs.

Nonetheless, within a day, this thread is bombarded with accounts of democrats being quoted with violent phrases, many cut out of context as you pointed out.

Boy! A good defense is a strong offense, I suppose. But that begs the question....why is the right so defensive on this issue??

code3retrievers
01-10-2011, 05:57 PM
Why has a tragedy like this turned into "lets find EVERY example of a democrat threatening violence and post it on the internet" ???

Just like doublespeak in 1984.

A woman who happens to be a democrat was shot in the head. Next thing you know, the web and radiowaves are abuzz with accusations of how evil democrats are!

Good is evil. Black is white. War is peace regards.....

Are you kidding me? This thread turned once some of the liberal on here claimed that this occurred due to the right's hate speech or did you forget Snikerfritz first comment or newlab's

Newlab's post-
"?????? Anti Gun Nuts????? Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't see any "anti gun nuts" pulling triggers. I see right wing "nuts", incited by irresponsible leaders like Sarah Palin and the crazy Governor from Az! This congresswoman has been under attack by natioanl and local right wing media, pundits, and leadership for a long time.
I agree, this is NOT a second amendment issue. But it is an issue that involves the hatred and intolerance that has become such a normal occurrence within the right wing leadership. The sick bastard that pulled this trigger has had months of encouragement to pull the trigger. That, is where this debate needs to go. Not, to the 2nd amendment."

This should not even be a political discussion but the leftists on this board took it down that road. Do you think the center right on this board is not going to call BS on this and respond.

For every instance you can find of the right using language and symbols you can find just as many on the left. Like you said Tit for Tat. You just don't like it because it shows what hypocrites you folks are.

The use of hunting/military symbolism has been used in politics forever. Get used to it and stop your whining. The left needs to wait for the fact to come out. I'm sure you waited for the facts in the Fort Hood shooting, instead of jumping to conclusions. The facts may even surprise you.

Let's face it, the left is going to try and capitalize on this for gun control, place restrictions on free speech by trying to outlaw symbolism / certain speech and to attack talk radio. I'm sure you leftists will be OK with further restrictions on your rights just because some pot smoking, failure went nuts.

road kill
01-10-2011, 05:58 PM
It's worse than that Dave. He wasn't threatening violence. This is what he said in context:



This stuff isn't hard to understand. He strung together a bunch of aphorisms to make the point that the union wasn't going to lay down, it was going to fight from now on.

The part about capitalism wasn't him saying that he doesn't believe in capitalism, he's stating that companies were not playing free market capitalism, they are gaming the system.

But if you go to the website where luvvy cut and pasted her statement from and look at the clip you see that they cut select sentences from that statement and string them together to create a shameless lie.

Yup, it's been lefties showing up and shouting down our representatives at meetings, and openly carrying firearms to political events. And it's all morally equivalent to the comment that this guy make and had taken out of context.

Could it possibly be that some of the right wing rhetoric is in response to the left's knee jerk reaction blaming Palin for this guys idiocy??
I mean, I know that's impossible for you to see.
Sometimes you gotta be careful what fights you pick, especially when the facts end up blowing up in your face.

BTW--He is a registered "Independent.":rolleyes:

Posted at 5:28 PM ET, 01/10/2011
Jared Lee Loughner was a registered independent, didn't vote in 2010 electionBy Chris Cillizza
Suspected Tucson gunman Jared Lee Loughner registered as an independent voter in Arizona in the fall of 2006, according to the Pima County Registrar of Voters.

Loughner registered to vote on Sept. 29, 2006, identifying himself as an independent. Records show he voted in the 2006 and 2008 elections but is current listed as "inactive" on the state's voter roles -- meaning that he did not vote in November.




RK

code3retrievers
01-10-2011, 06:07 PM
Yup, it's been lefties showing up and shouting down our representatives at meetings, and openly carrying firearms to political events. And it's all morally equivalent to the comment that this guy make and had taken out of context.

Another stupid statement.

AZ is a right to carry state. Did anyone get shot at the Tea party rallies? NO!
What you guys are afraid of a couple of old people yelling questions to their reps?

I hate to even respond to most of your posts because of your pure hated of the center right but here is a question for you. Why is it that conservatives need body guards and are attacked or shouted down on college campuses? Perhaps its because the left are the dangerous ones. When is the last time you saw a bunch of old conservatives riot or even young ones. You can't name it because it doesn't happen ( the left is the only ones that riot) I am sure your OK with that because they are oppressed or they did not get their government hand out. Who is rioting in Great Britain, Greece, France, etc (Leftists)

code3retrievers
01-10-2011, 07:00 PM
BTW--He is a registered "Independent.":rolleyes:

Posted at 5:28 PM ET, 01/10/2011
Jared Lee Loughner was a registered independent, didn't vote in 2010 electionBy Chris Cillizza
Suspected Tucson gunman Jared Lee Loughner registered as an independent voter in Arizona in the fall of 2006, according to the Pima County Registrar of Voters.

Loughner registered to vote on Sept. 29, 2006, identifying himself as an independent. Records show he voted in the 2006 and 2008 elections but is current listed as "inactive" on the state's voter roles -- meaning that he did not vote in November.




RK

What? Don't we have some of those dangerous "Independents" posting on this board also.

His friends are also saying he was apolitical and and atheist. Seems some of the lefts assumptions about this guy may be wrong.

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 07:18 PM
NY state comptroller, Hevesi June 2006

"We really feel bad for poor Chuck, the U.S. Senator, the man who, uh, uh, how do I phrase this diplomatically, who will put a bullet between the president's eyes if he could get away with it. The toughest senator, the best representative. A great, great member of the Congress of the United States.''

paul young
01-10-2011, 07:27 PM
What? Don't we have some of those dangerous "Independents" posting on this board also.

His friends are also saying he was apolitical and and atheist. Seems some of the lefts assumptions about this guy may be wrong.

why would an apolitical person go to a political affair and attempt to asassinate a political figure and their supporters? i don't buy that he was apolitical. he is definitely nuts, though!-Paul

biggeorge50
01-10-2011, 07:29 PM
10 pages of garbage and name calling. The guy is a lunatic, plain and simple.

road kill
01-10-2011, 08:22 PM
AHA!!!

Now we knbow who is responsible!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/arizona-sheriff-blasts-rush-limbaugh-spewing-irresponsible-vitriol/story?id=12583285


Not the perp.......RUSH!!!!

RK

dnf777
01-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Could it possibly be that some of the right wing rhetoric is in response to the left's knee jerk reaction blaming Palin for this guys idiocy??
I mean, I know that's impossible for you to see.
Sometimes you gotta be careful what fights you pick, especially when the facts end up blowing up in your face.

BTW--He is a registered "Independent.":rolleyes:

Posted at 5:28 PM ET, 01/10/2011
Jared Lee Loughner was a registered independent, didn't vote in 2010 electionBy Chris Cillizza
Suspected Tucson gunman Jared Lee Loughner registered as an independent voter in Arizona in the fall of 2006, according to the Pima County Registrar of Voters.

Loughner registered to vote on Sept. 29, 2006, identifying himself as an independent. Records show he voted in the 2006 and 2008 elections but is current listed as "inactive" on the state's voter roles -- meaning that he did not vote in November.




RK


What is very telling is the hyper-defensive posturing the right wing has assumed, including the turning the table tactics, such as luvvy is doing here. How many postings are you up to now?

The sheriff never mentioned republicans. Yet they flew into damage control mode, pulling down web sites and retractions.

I made it clear from my first post, the only person to blame was the shooter, yet look at all the posturing and "but democrats are meanies too" posts going on!

charly_t
01-10-2011, 09:38 PM
I haven't been reading all this so I have a question............anyone covered the possibilty that this was a hate/race crime pure and simple ? I don't know the young man's background but I figured it was perhaps that he wanted to kill a Jew. That would lead speculation to more than one group that he might have been wanting to be a part of or was a part of. It may have little to do with good old USA politicians etc.

jbonnot03
01-10-2011, 09:39 PM
Didn't read the whole thread but found this and thought it is relevant to the topic.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/10/arizona-rampage-reignites-gun-control-debate-dc/

Note the comment from New York Rep. Carolyn Maloney--"Guns kill." Jumping on the soapbox now...I would like to try an experiment with her. Load a gun and lay it on the table. See how long it takes for the gun to "kill" someone. According to the anti-gun folks theory, we should ban cars, rope, knives, hammers, nail guns...Where would it stop? I really like what Rand Paul from KY said, "Weapons don’t kill people. It’s the individual that killed these people." Every time someone gets shot, the anti-gun people jump all over it and say we should ban guns. You never hear anything after another person gets killed in a car accident. I would reckon more people are killed in car accidents on a yearly basis than are killed by guns.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 09:42 PM
I enjoy pointing out the total hypocracy of the left.
I guess you missed the part where the sheriff said that everyone should shut up and accept the policies of the dems which were best for the country.

zeus3925
01-10-2011, 10:01 PM
Hey, Luv. Why should you care? Your're still a subject of the of good Queen Liz!

M&K's Retrievers
01-10-2011, 10:11 PM
What is very telling is the hyper-defensive posturing the right wing has assumed, including the turning the table tactics, such as luvvy is doing here. How many postings are you up to now?



You have 9 or 10 on this thread alone. I wasn't aware that you were the post police as well as the POTUS whistle blower.

Dish it but can't take it regards,

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 10:16 PM
Hey, Luv. Why should you care? Your're still a subject of the of good Queen Liz!
I actually pay federal income taxes unlike almost half of the population.

dnf777
01-10-2011, 10:16 PM
You have 9 or 10 on this thread alone. I wasn't aware that you were the post police as well as the POTUS whistle blower.

Dish it but can't take it regards,

I couldn't care less how many posts. The point was the content of those posts shows a very defensive posturing from the right. I'm wondering why?

M&K's Retrievers
01-10-2011, 10:36 PM
I couldn't care less how many posts. Then why bring it up? The point was the content of those posts shows a very defensive posturing from the right. And your posturing is from the Independent side I guess? I'm wondering why? Perhaps RK is tired of your Liberal BS.

Just a thought.

Pay backs are heck regards,

dnf777
01-10-2011, 10:50 PM
I don't think RK has any trouble calling my BS when he sniffs it!

But I'm still trying to figure out how calling for BOTH sides to tone down the rhetoric is liberal BS???

JDogger
01-10-2011, 11:00 PM
I enjoy pointing out the total hypocracy of the left.
I guess you missed the part where the sheriff said that everyone should shut up and accept the policies of the dems which were best for the country.

I'm glad you are aware of the hypocracy of the left. Yes it does exist. Now turn those sharp powers of observation inward, and find hypocracy where ever it might exist. Within?
Belive me when I say, some might not want you as a neighbor either. JD

M&K's Retrievers
01-10-2011, 11:02 PM
I don't think RK has any trouble calling my BS when he sniffs it!
?

I wasn't speaking for RK. I was calling BS on your BS. Simple concept really.

luvmylabs23139
01-10-2011, 11:05 PM
I'm glad you are aware of the hypocracy of the left. Yes it does exist. Now turn those sharp powers of observation inward, and find hypocracy where ever it might exist. Within?
Belive me when I say, some might not want you as a neighbor either. JD

I get along just fine with all of my neighbors. Of course I don't live in liberal lala land nor would I ever want to. Been there done that in CT.

I'm sure their are some that would not want you as a neighbor either.

JDogger
01-10-2011, 11:10 PM
I wasn't speaking for RK. I was calling BS on your BS. Simple concept really.

Well, I'm calling BS on the BS'er calling the BS. Now it starts to not get so simple. Or..., I could just be BS'ing.:rolleyes:

Double negative regards,:p
JD

M&K's Retrievers
01-10-2011, 11:15 PM
Well, I'm calling BS on the BS'er calling the BS. Now it starts to not get so simple. Or..., I could just be BS'ing.:rolleyes:

Double negative regards,:p
JD

What you talking 'bout Willis?

JDogger
01-10-2011, 11:38 PM
What you talking 'bout Willis?

Just BS'ing Mike. Just BS'ing. JD

M&K's Retrievers
01-10-2011, 11:44 PM
Just BS'ing Mike. Just BS'ing. JD

I know. PM sent.

road kill
01-11-2011, 06:43 AM
What is very telling is the hyper-defensive posturing the right wing has assumed, including the turning the table tactics, such as luvvy is doing here. How many postings are you up to now?
The sheriff never mentioned republicans. Yet they flew into damage control mode, pulling down web sites and retractions.

I made it clear from my first post, the only person to blame was the shooter, yet look at all the posturing and "but democrats are meanies too" posts going on!

I didn't count my posts, you tell me.

Everything I have posted is in full context.
As far as I could tell, it was all current and vetted.
Most of the early posts and Obama's response were knee jerk responses before we knew the facts or at least some facts.
I believe some saw it as an opportunity to make political hay.

I posted relevant material, chock full of facts.

Just here to help.......:D


RK

road kill
01-11-2011, 06:55 AM
Good read (opinion piece) out of the UK.



How America's elite hijacked a massacre to take revenge on Sarah PalinBy Tom Leonard
Last updated at 8:03 AM on 11th January 2011

On a sunny Saturday morning outside the local Safeway in Tucson,* Arizona, a man pulls out a powerful handgun, opens fire - and engulfs the U.S. in a political *firestorm.
Six people were killed on *Saturday, including a nine-year-old girl. But it was the fact that the target was a *Democratic congresswoman - who is fighting for her life - which has sparked such a furious row, not, as one might expect, over the nature of America’s gun laws, but over the vitriolic nature of its politics.
Defenders of gun rights like to say it’s not the gun that’s dangerous, but the user. Now the argument swirling across the U.S. is whether it’s not the user but violent political *rhetoric that may have *ultimately pulled the trigger.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1345952/Arizona-shootings-How-Americas-elite-hijacked-massacre-revenge-Sarah-Palin.html



RK

code3retrievers
01-11-2011, 09:25 AM
why would an apolitical person go to a political affair and attempt to asassinate a political figure and their supporters? i don't buy that he was apolitical. he is definitely nuts, though!-Paul

Perhaps he was obsessed with the person. John Hinckley was not political. He was just trying to impress Jodi Foster. I don't know the guy but his friends do, which is where the information came from. If he was political he most likely would have voted this last election.

Who knows what goes on in an insane person's mind. Maybe that was the most prominent person he had access to. Not many celebrities living in Tucson. But again how about we wait longer then 15 minutes to start jumping to conclusions.

road kill
01-11-2011, 09:30 AM
Perhaps he was obsessed with the person. John Hinckley was not political. He was just trying to impress Jodi Foster. I don't know the guy but his friends do, which is where the information came from. If he was political he most likely would have voted this last election.

Who knows what goes on in an insane person's mind. Maybe that was the most prominent person he had access to. Not many celebrities living in Tucson. But again how about we wait longer then 15 minutes to start jumping to conclusions.

I am certain there are a couple of experts on that here on this site!!!:D


RK

code3retrievers
01-11-2011, 09:50 AM
What is very telling is the hyper-defensive posturing the right wing has assumed, including the turning the table tactics, such as luvvy is doing here. How many postings are you up to now?

The sheriff never mentioned republicans. Yet they flew into damage control mode, pulling down web sites and retractions.

I made it clear from my first post, the only person to blame was the shooter, yet look at all the posturing and "but democrats are meanies too" posts going on!

Do you every really make a point?

I believe your question has been answered several times on this thread. If someone attacks your political position as it was early on in this thread you expect everyone on the right to sit there and take it. Just because that is the way your little mind works doesn't mean everyone else should jump on board with you.

The sheriff did not mention Republicans but he insinuated it. That's what politicians do. They are cowards and do not have the guts to actually come out and say what they mean.

As for pulling information off the web- When an event like this happens everyone outlet looks for things that will enhance or hurt there side. The left wing ones did the same thing (Daily Kos). Does it make it right? It's their sites and they are free to present any information they deem fit.

As far as how many posts someone has, what do you care as long as they are adding substance to the discussion. (Which you rarely do) Your normal MO is to throw questions out that are meant as digs toward one person or the right. Then you sit back and throw out snarky comments for answers, waiting for others to come to your defense. Your not interested in political discourse only in making you own little comments. Perhaps you should reexamine your hate for the center right.

dnf777
01-11-2011, 09:56 AM
Do you every really make a point?

I believe your question has been answered several times on this thread. If someone attacks your political position as it was early on in this thread you expect everyone on the right to sit there and take it. Just because that is the way your little mind works doesn't mean everyone else should jump on board with you.

The sheriff did not mention Republicans but he insinuated it. That's what politicians do. They are cowards and do not have the guts to actually come out and say what they mean.

As for pulling information off the web- When an event like this happens everyone outlet looks for things that will enhance or hurt there side. The left wing ones did the same thing (Daily Kos). Does it make it right? It's their sites and they are free to present any information they deem fit.

As far as how many posts someone has, what do you care as long as they are adding substance to the discussion. (Which you rarely do) Your normal MO is to throw questions out that are meant as digs toward one person or the right. Then you sit back and throw out snarky comments for answers, waiting for others to come to your defense. Your not interested in political discourse only in making you own little comments. Perhaps you should reexamine your hate for the center right.

Re-read my post #13.
That states my position.
This same discussion is being had by members of ALL political persuasions on a national level.
I have been explicit in stating that I am NOT blaming Sarah or anyone else, except the shooter.

What problem do you have with that?
If that gives me a "little mind" as you put it, that's fine.
I stand by my comment, as I think they are being reflected by many across the nation as we type here.

And I do so by engaging you in civil discourse. I do not feel the need to call you small-minded. I enjoy this type of discussion, albiet without the name calling. Had enough of that already to last all year, and I ain't going there no mo! Have a good one.

ducknwork
01-11-2011, 10:05 AM
I enjoy this type of discussion, albiet without the name calling. Had enough of that already to last all year, and I ain't going there no mo!

Wonder how long that resolution will last...:rolleyes:

Don't worry, we'll keep track for you.:D Although it may be easier now that your best buddy has left the building...

dnf777
01-11-2011, 10:31 AM
Wonder how long that resolution will last...:rolleyes:

Don't worry, we'll keep track for you.:D Although it may be easier now that your best buddy has left the building...

Please hold me to it! I've already been called "small minded" and didn't even feel a twinge to engage. Maybe there's hope.

M&K's Retrievers
01-11-2011, 10:44 AM
Please hold me to it! I've already been called "small minded" and didn't even feel a twinge to engage. Maybe there's hope.

Ah, but I bet it's brewing inside.

Mount St. Helen's regards

code3retrievers
01-11-2011, 01:18 PM
Re-read my post #13.
That states my position.
This same discussion is being had by members of ALL political persuasions on a national level.
I have been explicit in stating that I am NOT blaming Sarah or anyone else, except the shooter.

What problem do you have with that?
If that gives me a "little mind" as you put it, that's fine.
I stand by my comment, as I think they are being reflected by many across the nation as we type here.

.

The problem I have is you say you blame the shooter but then bring other jump on board with others statements of limiting the rhetoric on the right. By doing so you imply that the right caused this crime.

The reason I called you small minded is due to the fact you can never see both sides of an argument. You call for stopping the lock and load statements and targets drawn on districts but fail to see that this is common on both sides. When it is pointed out you dismiss it as Tit for Tat.

You demean someone's point of view and don't expect an attack from others?

Rhetoric occurs on both sides, symbolism occurs on both sides, get used to it, but don't expect that when your side points it out that someone is not going to counter.

charly_t
01-11-2011, 01:32 PM
I am certain there are a couple of experts on that here on this site!!!:D


RK

Good one, RK. Best laugh that I have had so far today :-)

dnf777
01-11-2011, 01:41 PM
The problem I have is you say you blame the shooter but then bring other jump on board with others statements of limiting the rhetoric on the right. By doing so you imply that the right caused this crime. Maybe to you I do, but that wasn't the intent by any means. In fact, I explicitly stated I DO NOT blame Sarah or anyone else but the shooter.

The reason I called you small minded is due to the fact you can never see both sides of an argument. You call for stopping the lock and load statements and targets drawn on districts but fail to see that this is common on both sides. When it is pointed out you dismiss it as Tit for Tat. After the accusations and postings went back and forth a few times it WAS tit for tat. I CLEARLY said BOTH sides need to tone it down, thereby acknowledging BOTH sides are engaged.
You demean someone's point of view Calling someone small-minded is demeaning their point of view. I have not done that. and don't expect an attack from others? Again, I don't think I attacked anyone, by calling for BOTH sides to tone down.

Rhetoric occurs on both sides, symbolism occurs on both sides, get used to it, but don't expect that when your side points it out that someone is not going to counter. OK


.............................

Buzz
01-11-2011, 02:21 PM
I do not feel the need to call you small-minded. I enjoy this type of discussion, albiet without the name calling.

I was told that my comments were stupid and filled with hate. So I decided that there was no point in responding.


PS: Dave, you're an editing fool...

Marvin S
01-11-2011, 02:32 PM
PS: Dave, you're a fool...

That'll work :BIG: .

code3retrievers
01-11-2011, 02:44 PM
I was told that my comments were stupid and filled with hate. So I decided that there was no point in responding.

.

You are one of the biggest hypocritical bomb throwers on this board. You toss some comment out there to inflame and then act innocent when someone responds.

Buzz
01-11-2011, 02:55 PM
You are one of the biggest hypocritical bomb throwers on this board. You toss some comment out there to inflame and then act innocent when someone responds.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

starjack
01-11-2011, 03:04 PM
I heard to day she is breathing on her own. But they said she is not out of woods yet. But improving.

Buzz
01-11-2011, 03:24 PM
Hmm, maybe it was a result of this crosshairs posting from the left targeting her. Give me a few minutes and I will also find crosshair map from the dems from 2004.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png?w=510&h=384&h=384 (http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png)



Details here:

http://mediamatters.org/research/201101110003

Buzz
01-11-2011, 03:34 PM
Here is an official democrat target map from 2004.
The dems were using taget maps back then so why is ok for them to do it but not republicans?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg?w=397&h=355&h=355 (http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg)

Did you look at that map? Those targets don't represent people. They represent states that dems were focused on winning, read the caption at the bottom of it.

dnf777
01-11-2011, 03:34 PM
I heard to day she is breathing on her own. But they said she is not out of woods yet. But improving.

That's great news. The fact she was alert and following commands is great too. The damage must have been mainly to the parietal area, which we can live without. The brainstem and diencephalon must be ok. Her Wernicke's area may be out, in which case learning to speak will be harder than learning to swing a golf club left handed, if possible at all.

My heart is breaking for the 9 year old who wasn't as fortunate. Her father is from the Pittsburgh area I saw, and there are vigiles being held around town for her. So so sad.

code3retrievers
01-11-2011, 04:14 PM
Did you look at that map? Those targets don't represent people. They represent states that dems were focused on winning, read the caption at the bottom of it.

Your making excuses. Palin,s targets were congressional districts. Whats the difference?

That's my issue with the left. Its OK when they do it but not when some one else does. How about we both agree that neither graphic was meant to incite violence nor does NBC when they call states "Battle Ground States" do they really mean, they are looking for real battle to break out? Of course not!

starjack
01-11-2011, 05:35 PM
That's great news. The fact she was alert and following commands is great too. The damage must have been mainly to the parietal area, which we can live without. The brainstem and diencephalon must be ok. Her Wernicke's area may be out, in which case learning to speak will be harder than learning to swing a golf club left handed, if possible at all.

My heart is breaking for the 9 year old who wasn't as fortunate. Her father is from the Pittsburgh area I saw, and there are vigiles being held around town for her. So so sad.

They showed on fox last night of where she was hit and the doctor there said something to that effect. He also said the luckly the skull did not splinter. Look like it higher up on one side or the other . (i cant remember witch side)

luvmylabs23139
01-11-2011, 05:44 PM
Did you look at that map? Those targets don't represent people. They represent states that dems were focused on winning, read the caption at the bottom of it.

As usual the lefties try to explain away there own actions. Sorry that is total BS.

dback
01-11-2011, 09:32 PM
The Arizona Legislature has passed into law a measure that will prevent the maggots from Westboro from protesting at the Christina Green funeral (the 9 year old). Susan Hileman, the neighbor who took Christina to meet Congresswoman Giffords is still in a "morphine haze" but has been crying for Christina for the last two days. Hileman's husband is said to be devastated and feels responsible for Christina's loss. I just can't imagine.

This is very tough for Arizona and those desirous of making 'political hay' out of it, make me want to puke.

dnf777
01-11-2011, 10:04 PM
The Arizona Legislature has passed into law a measure that will prevent the maggots from Westboro from protesting at the Christina Green funeral (the 9 year old). Susan Hileman, the neighbor who took Christina to meet Congresswoman Giffords is still in a "morphine haze" but has been crying for Christina for the last two days. Hileman's husband is said to be devastated and feels responsible for Christina's loss. I just can't imagine.

This is very tough for Arizona and those desirous of making 'political hay' out of it, make me want to puke.

I started a thread about those inhuman cretons who want to protest at her funeral. I stopped short of saying what I was thinking, as it was rather violent, and counterproductive to what we're striving to achieve....a little peace on earth.

I can't understand how those people can look in a mirror, or call themselves Christian. (or anything else related to being a human being)

ducknwork
01-12-2011, 07:21 AM
The Arizona Legislature has passed into law a measure that will prevent the maggots from Westboro from protesting at the Christina Green funeral (the 9 year old).

Who's going to be the first to sue for violation of the 1st ammendment?

dback
01-12-2011, 08:26 AM
Who's going to be the first to sue for violation of the 1st ammendment?

I believe it was pretty much structured word for word after the Ohio law that has already been upheld in court. They can protest to their hearts content but not within something like a thousand feet of the funeral or home. Citizens are planning to attend in mass to completely block them from the ceremony.

Sorry Dave, I didn't see the other thread.

ducknwork
01-12-2011, 11:44 AM
I believe it was pretty much structured word for word after the Ohio law that has already been upheld in court. They can protest to their hearts content but not within something like a thousand feet of the funeral or home. Citizens are planning to attend in mass to completely block them from the ceremony.

Sorry Dave, I didn't see the other thread.

That's good to hear.

My comment was not in jest, I really meant it. I fully expected some idiot to challenge it on that basis, but hopefully it will be okay as it was in the Ohio case you are talking about.

Roger Perry
01-12-2011, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=730274#post730274)
Here is an official democrat target map from 2004.
The dems were using taget maps back then so why is ok for them to do it but not republicans?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg?w=397&h=355&h=355 (http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg)



Well, here is a standard RK reply

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Started it

luvmylabs23139
01-12-2011, 12:08 PM
Westboro baptist church just backed down and said they will not show up. Great news for everyone in AZ and especially the family of the little girl.

luvmylabs23139
01-12-2011, 12:16 PM
Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=730274#post730274)
Here is an official democrat target map from 2004.
The dems were using taget maps back then so why is ok for them to do it but not republicans?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg?w=397&h=355&h=355 (http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demmap.jpg)



Well, here is a standard RK reply

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Started it


Gee Roger, are you left wing nuts not responsible for what you blame the right for? AS you state the left lunatics were using targets first.

Roger Perry
01-12-2011, 12:58 PM
Gee Roger, are you left wing nuts not responsible for what you blame the right for? AS you state the left lunatics were using targets first.

First off, I am not a lefty.

Secondly, Heeeeeeeeeeeee started it.:rolleyes:

ducknwork
01-12-2011, 01:33 PM
First off, I am not a lefty.



I thought you normally posted your jokes in a seperate thread?

road kill
01-12-2011, 01:39 PM
First off, I am not a lefty.

Secondly, Heeeeeeeeeeeee started it.:rolleyes:


Really???


Roger, you just made me smile and laugh out loud!!!:D

RK

luvmylabs23139
01-12-2011, 01:44 PM
First off, I am not a lefty.

.

Diet pepsi all over my laptop. Thanks lefty.:rolleyes:

Roger Perry
01-12-2011, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Perry http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=731582#post731582)
First off, I am not a lefty.


I thought you normally posted your jokes in a seperate thread?
__________________





Quote:


Originally Posted by Roger Perry http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=731582#post731582)


First off, I am not a lefty.




Secondly, Heeeeeeeeeeeee started it.:rolleyes:





Really???





Roger, you just made me smile and laugh out loud!!!:grin:




RK


__________________






luvmylabs23139 (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/member.php?u=25820)







Quote:


Originally Posted by Roger Perry http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://new.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?p=731582#post731582)


First off, I am not a lefty.




.




Diet pepsi all over my laptop. Thanks lefty.


__________________


Just because I do not agree with the far righties here does not make me a lefty.

ducknwork
01-12-2011, 01:56 PM
Just because I do not agree with the far righties here does not make me a lefty.[/LEFT]

So you are not left of center at all?

Roger Perry
01-12-2011, 02:08 PM
So you are not left of center at all?

I like to think of myself as being in the center --- not far right or far left After all, I was a registered Republican until after Bush took office it was then that I decided to register as an Independent. Even when I was a registered Republican I concidered myself to be in the center.

duckheads
01-12-2011, 02:13 PM
I like to think of myself as being in the center --- not far right or far left After all, I was a registered Republican until after Bush took office it was then that I decided to register as an Independent. Even when I was a registered Republican I concidered myself to be in the center.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! You killing me today with your jokes Roger!

Roger Perry
01-12-2011, 02:16 PM
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! You killing me today with your jokes Roger!

Well, I hope you are not peeing in your pants.:rolleyes:

road kill
01-12-2011, 02:18 PM
I like to think of myself as being in the center --- not far right or far left After all, I was a registered Republican until after Bush took office it was then that I decided to register as an Independent. Even when I was a registered Republican I concidered myself to be in the center.


Roger, based on your post trail on this site, you are a Left wing progressive LIBERAL!!

I have never seen 1 post from you that would qualify as conservative.
Unless maybe it came to spending your own money.


RK

luvmylabs23139
01-12-2011, 02:22 PM
I like to think of myself as being in the center --- not far right or far left After all, I was a registered Republican until after Bush took office it was then that I decided to register as an Independent. Even when I was a registered Republican I concidered myself to be in the center.

Are you kidding. Look at your posts and all of the SOCIALIST policies that you suport. Heck you even favor things that are flat out communist.
You should move to CUBA!

Roger Perry
01-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Roger, based on your post trail on this site, you are a Left wing progressive LIBERAL!!

I have never seen 1 post from you that would qualify as conservative.
Unless maybe it came to spending your own money.


RK

Well, I just like to take the other side for the sake of argument. Sometimes I post things even I don't believe and you far righties fall for it every time.:BIG:
If I agreed with you righties all the time what fun would Potus Place be??????

M&K's Retrievers
01-12-2011, 02:32 PM
Check and see if dnf is looking for a roommate.:rolleyes:

BonMallari
01-12-2011, 04:26 PM
I like to think of myself as being in the center --- not far right or far left After all, I was a registered Republican until after Bush took office it was then that I decided to register as an Independent. Even when I was a registered Republican I concidered myself to be in the center.


Roger the only thing you are is center..is self centered....:p:p...but I kind of like you because you are consistent and you have a very good sense of humor with some of the jokes you post...You and I may disagree politically, but I like the way you support your beloved Miami Dolphins..;)

Roger Perry
01-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Roger the only thing you are is center..is self centered....:p:p...but I kind of like you because you are consistent and you have a very good sense of humor with some of the jokes you post...You and I may disagree politically, but I like the way you support your beloved Miami Dolphins..;)

Actually my serious side is Center of the road. I get a kick out of teasing the far righties on here because I can always get a reaction out of them. Really, how many times on here have you seen me stand up for Obama? I do not go along with all the bashing because he has to have a chance to straighten out what he was left with. Just as I would not have bashed McCain if he had gotten elected (unless I wanted to get a rise out of the righties here) because he would have been left with the same situation as Obama was. I do not approve of the way all the money being spent and the huge deficit we have and I don't see how things would have changed in that regard if McCain would have been elected. I am for the Health Care reform because it will help alot of people especially those with pre-existing health problems. ----- See I can get serious if I want. And yes, I will keep the jokes coming as long as they are non political.

dnf777
01-12-2011, 07:08 PM
Are you kidding. Look at your posts and all of the SOCIALIST policies that you suport. Heck you even favor things that are flat out communist.
You should move to CUBA!

Well, that puts him in the same camp as many other famous cast out coservatives such as Reagan, Nixon, Goldwater, and Bush Senior.

What a bunch of bleeding hearts!

luvmylabs23139
01-12-2011, 08:02 PM
Well, that puts him in the same camp as many other famous cast out coservatives such as Reagan, Nixon, Goldwater, and Bush Senior.

What a bunch of bleeding hearts!

Have you read Roger's posts? Or is it just that you don't think that either of you have socialist values?
Roger was all in favor of the taxpayers paying for part of a persons home purchase. Sorry but that is flat out socialism. Of course he personally benefited from the increase in home sales since he is a realtor. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Obama care is socialism.

dnf777
01-12-2011, 08:21 PM
Have you read Roger's posts? Or is it just that you don't think that either of you have socialist values?
Roger was all in favor of the taxpayers paying for part of a persons home purchase. Sorry but that is flat out socialism. Of course he personally benefited from the increase in home sales since he is a realtor. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Obama care is socialism.

We all have socialist values to a degree. Especially non-citizens who live here and benefit from our highway system, education system, police departments, etc... And enjoy the liberties secured by our military, which is funded by all, for the benefit of all. So let's drop the socialist accusations, eh?

Turning the page, you then blame someone for figuring out how to turn a profit? That's rather un-capitalist of you! Live and let live. Just because some folks don't have their heads up against the right wall, does not make them socialist. Many of the great republicans that I mentioned earlier would be labeled as liberals by today's republicans.

depittydawg
01-12-2011, 08:31 PM
Have you read Roger's posts? Or is it just that you don't think that either of you have socialist values?
Roger was all in favor of the taxpayers paying for part of a persons home purchase. Sorry but that is flat out socialism. Of course he personally benefited from the increase in home sales since he is a realtor. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Obama care is socialism.

Is it flat out socialism when tax payers foot the bill for a state of the art sports stadium? Or how about when they foot the bill, or a major portion of it, for a new factory in your town? Just curious how you and others who view "socialism" as a nasty word would answer this one.

luvmylabs23139
01-12-2011, 08:36 PM
We all have socialist values to a degree. Especially non-citizens who live here and benefit from our highway system, education system, police departments, etc... And enjoy the liberties secured by our military, which is funded by all
WHAT A JOKE 50 % pay nothing
, for the benefit of all. So let's drop the socialist accusations, eh?

Yes he and many of you lefties are socialists.

Unlike 50% of the people in this country I actually pay federal income taxes and a darn lot tof them.

Turning the page, you then blame someone for figuring out how to turn a profit? That's rather un-capitalist of you!
I don't blame anyone for figuring out how to turn a profit, However the taxpayers should not have been forced to buy a portion of someone elses house.

Live and let live. Just because some folks don't have their heads up against the right wall, does not make them socialist. Many of the great republicans that I mentioned earlier would be labeled as liberals by today's republicans.
When so many pay nothing and benefit from the hard work of others it is socialism. Soon we will be CUBA if the left wing has its way.

luvmylabs23139
01-12-2011, 08:39 PM
Is it flat out socialism when tax payers foot the bill for a state of the art sports stadium? Or how about when they foot the bill, or a major portion of it, for a new factory in your town? Just curious how you and others who view "socialism" as a nasty word would answer this one.

Taxpayer money should not be used for either of those things.

Do you own a dog? You have never posted on the main forum.

dnf777
01-12-2011, 09:00 PM
When so many pay nothing and benefit from the hard work of others it is socialism.

So that includes the roughly 50% of large US and foreign controlled domestic corporations that don't pay any federal taxes?

Nor_Cal_Angler
01-12-2011, 10:09 PM
So that includes the roughly 50% of large US and foreign controlled domestic corporations that don't pay any federal taxes?

I notice you turn to that page a lot Dave,

You told someone they are benifiting from socialism and they benifit from the taxes paid by citizens, to provide the roads and education and police....and forgot that just because they are not a citizen, they may actually PAY TAXES just the same as a citizen...poor form.

Then your rebuttal is with regard to large corportaions...

Connect the dots for me please, regards

NCA

dnf777
01-13-2011, 06:00 AM
I notice you turn to that page a lot Dave,

You told someone they are benifiting from socialism and they benifit from the taxes paid by citizens, to provide the roads and education and police....and forgot that just because they are not a citizen, they may actually PAY TAXES just the same as a citizen...poor form.

Then your rebuttal is with regard to large corportaions...

Connect the dots for me please, regards

NCA


Here I am
On the road again
There I am
Up on the stage
Here I go
Playin' star again
There I go
Turn the page

Cuz Bob said so.....

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 09:18 AM
I notice you turn to that page a lot Dave,

You told someone they are benifiting from socialism and they benifit from the taxes paid by citizens, to provide the roads and education and police....and forgot that just because they are not a citizen, they may actually PAY TAXES just the same as a citizen...poor form.

Then your rebuttal is with regard to large corportaions...

Connect the dots for me please, regards

NCA


Hey NCA lets rephrase may actually pay taxes.
Let's change it from just like citizens to the actual facts
UNLIKE 50% of citizens.
For some reason DNF refuses to admit all of the non tax paying citizens.
Somehow paying federal income taxes makes someone's opinion less important than the non taxpaying citizen.

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 09:22 AM
So DNF,
According to you if my parents had jumped the border and entered illegally before my birth, which would mean I was a citizen as a result of illegal activity by my parents, my opinions would have more value than that of someone who came here legally as a result of parents who came here legally?
You lefties really make no sense.

BrianW
01-13-2011, 09:48 AM
Is it flat out socialism when tax payers foot the bill for a state of the art sports stadium? Or how about when they foot the bill, or a major portion of it, for a new factory in your town? Just curious how you and others who view "socialism" as a nasty word would answer this one. If the stadium is to be used primarily by a private business/corporation, say the Seattle Seahawks, that should not be funded by tax dollars (imo), even though the surrounding community may benefit from the additional business in the area. It should also not be considered "socialism" as there is no private property in a socialist system by definition.
If the stadium is to be mainly used for public purposes and administered by a government appointed board of panel, with sub-use by private enterprise, then tax dollars could be used for that, contingent on an approving vote by the citizenry/legal tax paying residents and that would be a socialist venture.
If the town government has a say in the management or means of production of the factory, that could be an example of "limited" socialism but again the concept of private property conflicts with that.


Do you own a dog? You have never posted on the main forum.

Lml, there are lots of people who don't/rarely post on the main forum, especially "new" folks, that are just reading advice or opinions; often because of the "attitude" projected by some of the folks w/ 100's or 1000's of posts there.
Owning dog should no requirement to having a opinion or "talking politics in the gallery". ;-)

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 10:15 AM
Owning dog should no requirement to having a opinion or "talking politics in the gallery". ;-)

Just wondering why someone would be on this forum to begin with if they did not own a retriever.
We have not even seen a post of "look at my adorable new puppy " from newlabs.
No dog pic, and more important NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION !:rolleyes:
Can we say troll?

dnf777
01-13-2011, 10:22 AM
So DNF,
According to you if my parents had jumped the border and entered illegally before my birth, which would mean I was a citizen as a result of illegal activity by my parents, my opinions would have more value than that of someone who came here legally as a result of parents who came here legally?
You lefties really make no sense.

This post, and #170 have left my head spinning.

Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you or your parents do or did to get here, and I don't care if you pay taxes or not.

As long as people fill out the required tax forms and honestly calculate their tax bill, that's fine. If they happen to owe nothing, in accordance with our current tax law, they have done nothing to be faulted for. The people who write the tax laws should be examined, not them.

You seem to focus on people who legally and honestly don't owe taxes. You seem to ignore the large corporations who also don't pay any taxes. Why is that?

M&K's Retrievers
01-13-2011, 10:30 AM
s. You seem to ignore the large corporations who also don't pay any taxes. Why is that?

Why should any size corporation pay income tax?

paul young
01-13-2011, 10:36 AM
Hey NCA lets rephrase may actually pay taxes.
Let's change it from just like citizens to the actual facts
UNLIKE 50% of citizens.
For some reason DNF refuses to admit all of the non tax paying citizens.
Somehow paying federal income taxes makes someone's opinion less important than the non taxpaying citizen.

you DO realize that over 27% of the population is less than 16 YOA, and notsubject to taxes because they are too young to hold a job, right?

that 50% stat is B.S.

what do you want a medal? if i had a buck for every time you rant about taxes on here, as though you're the only person paying them, i could take my wife out to a 5 star restaurant a couple times a year.-Paul

Blackstone
01-13-2011, 10:55 AM
Just wondering why someone would be on this forum to begin with if they did not own a retriever.
We have not even seen a post of "look at my adorable new puppy " from newlabs.
No dog pic, and more important NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION !:rolleyes:
Can we say troll?

Well, I don’t own a retriever, and I am not a troll. I own GSPs, and I came to this board hoping to learn more about training for blind retrieves and handling drills. Now, I could post some cute puppy pictures, but they would all be pointing. ;)

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 11:17 AM
Well, I don’t own a retriever, and I am not a troll. I own GSPs, and I came to this board hoping to learn more about training for blind retrieves and handling drills. Now, I could post some cute puppy pictures, but they would all be pointing. ;)

Yes, but you have posted on the main forum with dog related posts.:-P
His id is newlab which to me says he claims to own a retriever. Note the lab part of the id.:rolleyes:
No one wonders whether or not you actually own a dog or are just trolling.
You post picks of your dog. You are a proud dog owner, as it should be, and we all know that whether or not we agree with your political views.
The majority of us know that your primary purpose for being on the forum like most of us is because of your dog.

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 11:29 AM
you DO realize that over 27% of the population is less than 16 YOA, and notsubject to taxes because they are too young to hold a job, right?

that 50% stat is B.S.

what do you want a medal? if i had a buck for every time you rant about taxes on here, as though you're the only person paying them, i could take my wife out to a 5 star restaurant a couple times a year.-Paul

Do you actually believe that crap?
Sit down and run some basic numbers based on income levels and then the exemptions and refundable credits people are allowed. Start with that refundable child credit.
Use those math skills you should have.
As soon as the BUSH (yes I did say Bush) child credit came into law I suddenly had double the tax liability of a coworker that made twice as much as I did based just on that using the stanard deduction not itemized deductions.
Yes that is accurate. I had access to that info since I was the payroll and benefits mgr.
Don't you think I would run numbers to see how bad DH and I were getting screwed by that?

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 11:34 AM
This post, and #170 have left my head spinning.

Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you or your parents do or did to get here, and I don't care if you pay taxes or not.

As long as people fill out the required tax forms and honestly calculate their tax bill, that's fine. If they happen to owe nothing, in accordance with our current tax law, they have done nothing to be faulted for. The people who write the tax laws should be examined, not them.

You seem to focus on people who legally and honestly don't owe taxes. You seem to ignore the large corporations who also don't pay any taxes. Why is that?

Why do you still avoid the point of who pays federal taxes and who does not?
You love to call me a non-citizen. Why is that?
Do you want to explain why an actual taxpayer who happens to be married to a US citizen should have no opinion but someone who is a citizen because their parents broke the law but pays no federal income taxes would have a valid opinion?

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 11:46 AM
you DO realize that over 27% of the population is less than 16 YOA, and notsubject to taxes because they are too young to hold a job, right?

that 50% stat is B.S.

what do you want a medal? if i had a buck for every time you rant about taxes on here, as though you're the only person paying them, i could take my wife out to a 5 star restaurant a couple times a year.-Paul

Maybe everyone should pay federal income taxes. Why should people pay no taxes and then be allowed to vote to steal someone elses hard earned money?
Can you give me a good reason for that?
Somehow I doubt it.
I am so glad I no longer live in CT.
Those of us that believe you should keep what you earn were outnumbered by the bleeding liberal combined with the welfare slime.

dnf777
01-13-2011, 11:52 AM
Why do you still avoid the point of who pays federal taxes and who does not?
You love to call me a non-citizen. Why is that?
Do you want to explain why an actual taxpayer who happens to be married to a US citizen should have no opinion but someone who is a citizen because their parents broke the law but pays no federal income taxes would have a valid opinion?

Let me repeat slowly so you can comprehend:

Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you or your parents do or did to get here, and I don't care if you pay taxes or not.

I addressed the point of who pays taxes and who doesn't. As long as someone honestly calculates their tax bill, and if it happens to be zero, you cannot fault them for that. I haven't been that lucky since I was a teenager, but would be more than happy to fill in a "zero" on my 1040.
Why have YOU failed to address the point of corporations not paying any taxes, because they offshore jobs or use other tactics within the tax code to avoid their fair share? Likewise, I don't fault companies that follow the law...but the law should be changed to ensure everyone pays their fair share.

ducknwork
01-13-2011, 11:53 AM
This post, and #170 have left my head spinning.

Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you or your parents do or did to get here, and I don't care if you pay taxes or not.

As long as people fill out the required tax forms and honestly calculate their tax bill, that's fine. If they happen to owe nothing, in accordance with our current tax law, they have done nothing to be faulted for. The people who write the tax laws should be examined, not them.

You seem to focus on people who legally and honestly don't owe taxes. You seem to ignore the large corporations who also don't pay any taxes. Why is that?

What if the corporations
fill out the required tax forms and honestly calculate their tax bill and they owe nothing?

Is this
If they happen to owe nothing, in accordance with our current tax law, they have done nothing to be faulted for. still your answer?

dnf777
01-13-2011, 11:54 AM
What if the corporations and they owe nothing?

Is this still your answer?

From post #182:

Likewise, I don't fault companies that follow the law...but the law should be changed to ensure everyone pays their fair share.

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 11:54 AM
what do you want a medal? if i had a buck for every time you rant about taxes on here, as though you're the only person paying them, i could take my wife out to a 5 star restaurant a couple times a year.-Paul

Do you enjoy paying taxes to support those who are a leach on society?
Are you happy that someone who is supposedly so bad off has a big screen TV?
Do you honestly believe that the hard working person should pay for someone else and that person has a brand new car while getting welfare, food stamps, WIC and section 8?:confused::confused::confused::confused::confuse d:

ducknwork
01-13-2011, 11:55 AM
you DO realize that over 27% of the population is less than 16 YOA, and notsubject to taxes because they are too young to hold a job, right?

I had a job at 14. I am sure there are plenty of others who have worked before they were 16 as well...

ducknwork
01-13-2011, 11:57 AM
From post #182:

Likewise, I don't fault companies that follow the law...but the law should be changed to ensure everyone pays their fair share.

But why are you complaining about companies not paying taxes in the sentence right before that?


Why have YOU failed to address the point of corporations not paying any taxes, because they offshore jobs or use other tactics within the tax code to avoid their fair share?


Nice double speak. Which way is it?

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 11:59 AM
Let me repeat slowly so you can comprehend:

Frankly, I don't give a hoot what you or your parents do or did to get here, and I don't care if you pay taxes or not.

I addressed the point of who pays taxes and who doesn't. As long as someone honestly calculates their tax bill, and if it happens to be zero, you cannot fault them for that. I haven't been that lucky since I was a teenager, but would be more than happy to fill in a "zero" on my 1040.
Why have YOU failed to address the point of corporations not paying any taxes, because they offshore jobs or use other tactics within the tax code to avoid their fair share? Likewise, I don't fault companies that follow the law...but the law should be changed to ensure everyone pays their fair share.
Didn't use use the system for WIC benefits?
Woould you like me to go on a search mission for the posts or will you just admit it?
I really have nothing better to do since the weather (what a joke) has cancelled the dog ob class I normally teach right now.

Roger Perry
01-13-2011, 12:08 PM
Have you read Roger's posts? Or is it just that you don't think that either of you have socialist values?
Roger was all in favor of the taxpayers paying for part of a persons home purchase. Sorry but that is flat out socialism. Of course he personally benefited from the increase in home sales since he is a realtor. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
Obama care is socialism.

Hey, get your
http://images.craigslist.org/3nd3kd3o65V45T25R5acr6fee9a6762ff1dee.jpgI supported every Republican President since Nixon until GW Bush ran for office. We have needed health care reform for years. Clinton tried to do it and it would not pass. Bush 43 was too interested in waging war than put the money into health care. Obama campaigned on health care reform and he did what he set out to do.

Our government runs the VA hospitals, Military hospitals (didn't Cheney go to Walter Reed hospital for his heart problems? and isn
t that where all the other presidents go when they need health care?) the government also runs Medicare & Medicade are these all socialist programs???????

My political views have not changed however the Republican political views have moved further to the right and I did not move with them. That is why I chose to become an Independent.

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 12:15 PM
Hey, get your
http://images.craigslist.org/3nd3kd3o65V45T25R5acr6fee9a6762ff1dee.jpgI supported every Republican President since Nixon until GW Bush ran for office. We have needed health care reform for years. Clinton tried to do it and it would not pass. Bush 43 was too interested in waging war than put the money into health care. Obama campaigned on health care reform and he did what he set out to do.

Our government runs the VA hospitals, Military hospitals (didn't Cheney go to Walter Reed hospital for his heart problems? and isn
t that where all the other presidents go when they need health care?) the government also runs Medicare & Medicade are these all socialist programs???????

My political views have not changed however the Republican political views have moved further to the right and I did not move with them. That is why I chose to become an Independent.



I don't need to get my head out of my ass, you do.
BY the way I oppose medicaid.
As for medicare and SS, I would much rather the gov't give me all my money back with reasonable interest and let me handle it.

Roger Perry
01-13-2011, 12:30 PM
I don't need to get my head out of my ass, you do.
BY the way I oppose medicaid.
As for medicare and SS, I would much rather the gov't give me all my money back with reasonable interest and let me handle it.

What about all the Medical hospitals that are around the world run by the government are they socialized medicine, you did not comment about that. it seems like the government is not doing too badly running that health care program.;-)

BonMallari
01-13-2011, 12:37 PM
I don't need to get my head out of my ass, you do.
BY the way I oppose medicaid.
As for medicare and SS, I would much rather the gov't give me all my money back with reasonable interest and let me handle it.


I USED TO...that is until we had to use it to care for my 98 yr old mother...right now you may not need it but if/when you do,and its the only ballgame in town, you will be damn glad its there

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 12:40 PM
What about all the Medical hospitals that are around the world run by the government are they socialized medicine, you did not comment about that. it seems like the government is not doing too badly running that health care program.;-)

YOU really don't want my opinion.
THe British system killed my grandmother. They left her to die in a ward with no CC after a heart attack. She most likely would have lived in the US.
BY the way money was not the issue but they have rules for hospitals.
It is easy to pay to see a non gov't dr but that doesn't translate to hospitals and urgent care.

Jason Glavich
01-13-2011, 12:42 PM
Do you enjoy paying taxes to support those who are a leach on society?
Are you happy that someone who is supposedly so bad off has a big screen TV?
Do you honestly believe that the hard working person should pay for someone else and that person has a brand new car while getting welfare, food stamps, WIC and section 8?:confused::confused::confused::confused::confuse d:

Although I do not like most programs like WIC or welfare they have a purpose, with that being said here is a spending number that is shocking at least to me.


Congress appropriated $7.252 billion for WIC in FY2010. By comparison, the WIC
Program appropriation was $20.6 million in 1974; $750 million in 1980; $1.5 billion in
1985; $2.1 billion in 1990, and $4.0 billion in 2000.

Wow!

Also i did not read this whole thread but how did it go to WIC and welfare and taxes?

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 12:52 PM
Although I do not like most programs like WIC or welfare they have a purpose, with that being said here is a spending number that is shocking at least to me.



Wow!

Also i did not read this whole thread but how did it go to WIC and welfare and taxes?

Because some people on this forum believe tha pople who are legal residents should not be allowed to comment even though they pay high federal income taxes while the leaches of society who are citizens can have their say even if that citizenship was the result of illegal actions. They have yet to defend that position.

dnf777
01-13-2011, 12:53 PM
Didn't use use the system for WIC benefits?
Woould you like me to go on a search mission for the posts or will you just admit it?
I really have nothing better to do since the weather (what a joke) has cancelled the dog ob class I normally teach right now.


What? You think you have me pinned or something? Of course I said I used WIC when I was a college student working two jobs to support myself and put myself through college, and I'm not ashamed in the least. Sure, I could have dropped out of college and used my tuition money to buy milk and baby food, but by using at most a couple hundred dollars of WIC funds, and allowing myself to finish college, I have gone on to pay back that WIC money MANY MANY times, and also pay YOUR share of taxes too! (by your logic, since we both use public services, roads, police, etc...and I pay much more in taxes than you...then YOU must be mooching off my labor and tax bill, right?)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes, I openly admit I used WIC funds. I have also been called a free-loader because I served in the army and received a military scholarship to medical school. Want to jump on that bandwagon too...or was that you in the first place?

dnf777
01-13-2011, 12:56 PM
Because some people on this forum believe tha pople who are legal residents should not be allowed to comment even though they pay high federal income taxes while the leaches of society who are citizens can have their say even if that citizenship was the result of illegal actions. They have yet to defend that position.

Well, when I'm a guest in someone's home, I don't proceed to criticize their finances and tell them how to run things. But that's just me.

I don't know who you're referring to, but I never said that. I do wonder however, if its SOOOO BAD here, why would anyone choose to stay?

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 01:00 PM
, and also pay YOUR share of taxes too! (by your logic, since we both use public services, roads, police, etc...and I pay much more in taxes than you...then YOU must be mooching off my labor and tax bill, right?)

?

I highly doubt you have paid MY share of taxes over the years. I doubt that you have paid "much" more than me in taxes over the years.

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 01:04 PM
Well, when I'm a guest in someone's home, I don't proceed to criticize their finances and tell them how to run things. But that's just me.

I don't know who you're referring to, but I never said that. I do wonder however, if its SOOOO BAD here, why would anyone choose to stay?
I don't care how anyone spends "their" money.
However I do care how the gov't spends "my" money.
The money a person works for does not belong to the gov't. Nor does it belong to someone sho sits on their fat ass and does nothing. And yes if they take it from me it is my money.

Roger Perry
01-13-2011, 01:05 PM
YOU really don't want my opinion.
THe British system killed my grandmother. They left her to die in a ward with no CC after a heart attack. She most likely would have lived in the US.
BY the way money was not the issue but they have rules for hospitals.
It is easy to pay to see a non gov't dr but that doesn't translate to hospitals and urgent care.

I am sorry to hear about your mother and now I can understand your position on "socialised medicine" but we have a pretty good system here in the U.S. and I don't see our health care going the way of England's health care even with the health care system that has been proposed.

luvmylabs23139
01-13-2011, 01:06 PM
What? You think you have me pinned or something? Of course I said I used WIC when I was a college student working two jobs to support myself and put myself through college, and I'm not ashamed in the least. Sure, I could have dropped out of college and used my tuition money to buy milk and baby food, but by using at most a couple hundred dollars of WIC funds, and allowing myself to finish college, I have gone on to pay back that WIC money MANY MANY times, and also pay YOUR share of taxes too! (by your logic, since we both use public services, roads, police, etc...and I pay much more in taxes than you...then YOU must be mooching off my labor and tax bill, right?)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but yes, I openly admit I used WIC funds. I have also been called a free-loader because I served in the army and received a military scholarship to medical school. Want to jump on that bandwagon too...or was that you in the first place?
Hmm, maybe you should not have had a child you could not afford.

Jason Glavich
01-13-2011, 01:21 PM
Hmm, maybe you should not have had a child you could not afford.

These programs are set up to help people in the short term not the long term. It seems like in this case it was used while going to school which is in the short term to me.

This is way different than people who have 14 kids to live on government aid for their whole lives. These programs if they were not abused work very well. I think they are just abused alot, as will healthcare.

dnf777
01-13-2011, 01:49 PM
Hmm, maybe you should not have had a child you could not afford.

Not going to take the bait of an obvious personal insult.

How am I doing, Duck? Living up to your sig line? :D

Cody Covey
01-13-2011, 01:51 PM
Not going to take the bait of an obvious personal insult.

How am I doing, Duck? Living up to your sig line? :D

ah come on sissy :)

Buzz
01-13-2011, 01:58 PM
Not going to take the bait of an obvious personal insult.



If she ever got wheeled into your OR with a case of diverticulitis at 3 am, do you think she'd care if you used some WIC funds in order to feed your kid while you were finishing up your education?

After all, you'd have shown much more character had you just given up and dropped out of school.

ducknwork
01-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Not going to take the bait of an obvious personal insult.

How am I doing, Duck? Living up to your sig line? :D

It's still early in the year.



























Pansy.

mjh345
01-13-2011, 05:12 PM
YOU really don't want my opinion.
THe British system killed my grandmother. They left her to die in a ward with no CC after a heart attack. She most likely would have lived in the US.
BY the way money was not the issue but they have rules for hospitals.
It is easy to pay to see a non gov't dr but that doesn't translate to hospitals and urgent care.

I am curious as to what the rules are in the British system that apparently led to your grandmother being denied medical care in spite of having money to pay for treatment?

biggeorge50
01-13-2011, 07:02 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be about a senator getting shot????

road kill
01-13-2011, 07:21 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be about a senator getting shot????

You are new, aren't you?

RK

M&K's Retrievers
01-13-2011, 07:38 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be about a senator getting shot????

Pick a few threads with over 20 posts, read the original post then read the last one. :D

depittydawg
01-13-2011, 09:37 PM
Taxpayer money should not be used for either of those things.

Do you own a dog? You have never posted on the main forum.

Just curious, but what does owning a dog have to do with a discussion of socialism? In fact I do own a lab. I purchased him as a rescue. No I don't hunt or train dogs. At least not very well. But after quite a bit of work, I do have him successfully retrieving a bumper... Lot of fun, even if I'm not that good at it. I'll probably never compete in a Hunt Test, although I did attend one once and enjoyed watching.

Years ago I did some Pheasant hunting behind a Lab. Loved every minute of it. Does that qualify me to opinions here

depittydawg
01-13-2011, 09:43 PM
Just wondering why someone would be on this forum to begin with if they did not own a retriever.
We have not even seen a post of "look at my adorable new puppy " from newlabs.
No dog pic, and more important NO ANSWER TO THE QUESTION !:rolleyes:
Can we say troll?

What is a Troll?

ducknwork
01-13-2011, 10:23 PM
What is a Troll?

Only a troll would ask a question like that.

BonMallari
01-13-2011, 11:20 PM
Just curious, but what does owning a dog have to do with a discussion of socialism? In fact I do own a lab. I purchased him as a rescue. No I don't hunt or train dogs. At least not very well. But after quite a bit of work, I do have him successfully retrieving a bumper... Lot of fun, even if I'm not that good at it. I'll probably never compete in a Hunt Test, although I did attend one once and enjoyed watching.

Years ago I did some Pheasant hunting behind a Lab. Loved every minute of it. Does that qualify me to opinions here


only the owners of the board can make that decision as to who gets to post opinions on here or not

But earning respect for your opinions and having people take you seriously takes a little more transparency...

treat people with respect and you'll generally get some back here on POTUS

road kill
01-14-2011, 06:37 AM
only the owners of the board can make that decision as to who gets to post opinions on here or not

But earning respect for your opinions and having people take you seriously takes a little more transparency...

treat people with respect and you'll generally get some back here on POTUS

But not necassarily!!:cool:


RK

starjack
01-14-2011, 04:25 PM
Well back on subject. The congress woman seems to be doing really good. Some people are calling it a miracle. She is still in critcal condtion . From what i heard todaythey were going to try and have her sit in a chair. Althou how tragic this was there is bright spot. Asfor that madman that did it theres only one place for him and it is not prison.

BrianW
01-14-2011, 11:55 PM
I sincerely hope that Gabrielle continues her recovery with this continued rate of progress. As stated on one news sreport, only 10% of the victims of this type of trauma even survive. She surely has a special role to play in the future and it will be interesting to see what that turns out to be.

dnf777
01-15-2011, 05:21 PM
Rep. Giffords is off the ventilator. Big step!

Unfortunately, now we're seeing the media publicize the goon who shot her. What he did, what he ate, how he didn't sleep all day, his bag of bullets.....

Why don't all the major news outlets just agree to black him out and give him NO fame or attention, other than when he fries?

BTW....what is the method of execution in AZ?

BonMallari
01-15-2011, 05:34 PM
Rep. Giffords is off the ventilator. Big step!

Unfortunately, now we're seeing the media publicize the goon who shot her. What he did, what he ate, how he didn't sleep all day, his bag of bullets.....

Why don't all the major news outlets just agree to black him out and give him NO fame or attention, other than when he fries?

BTW....what is the method of execution in AZ?


I agree the media has beaten this story to death, propped it up and beaten it up some more....

with this high profile attorney I still think she gets him a plea bargain down to life without parole based on diminished capacity or because that an impartial jury cant be found due to the media exposure...

My question is ...who is paying the bill for her services (lawyers fee that is)

and will the Justice Dept send in the big guns since a Federal Judge was executed


Great news about Congresswoman Giffords

luvmylabs23139
01-15-2011, 05:41 PM
Rep. Giffords is off the ventilator. Big step!

Unfortunately, now we're seeing the media publicize the goon who shot her. What he did, what he ate, how he didn't sleep all day, his bag of bullets.....

Why don't all the major news outlets just agree to black him out and give him NO fame or attention, other than when he fries?

BTW....what is the method of execution in AZ?

Great news about the congresswoman.

Arizona is lethal injection.
This is interesting though:
The method of execution of Federal prisoners for offenses under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 is that of the state in which the conviction took place, pursuant to 18 USC 3596.

I notice it says where the conviction took place not the crime.

BonMallari
01-15-2011, 05:56 PM
Great news about the congresswoman.

Arizona is lethal injection.
This is interesting though:
The method of execution of Federal prisoners for offenses under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 is that of the state in which the conviction took place, pursuant to 18 USC 3596.

I notice it says where the conviction took place not the crime.


IF the Justice Dept moves the venue due to the fact he executed a Fed.judge and attempted assassinating a sitting US Congressperson, this lawyer may press to have it moved to a state with no capital punishment...guess it wont be TEXAS

dnf777
01-15-2011, 06:01 PM
IF the Justice Dept moves the venue due to the fact he executed a Fed.judge and attempted assassinating a sitting US Congressperson, this lawyer may press to have it moved to a state with no capital punishment...guess it wont be TEXAS

I was hoping some state that still uses hanging or firing squad, if there's any left.

Even better, just put him in a cell with a bunch of violent offenders and turn around.

Nor_Cal_Angler
01-15-2011, 06:06 PM
I was hoping some state that still uses hanging or firing squad, if there's any left.

Even better, just put him in a cell with a bunch of violent offenders and turn around.

Never gonna happen...he'll PC up as soon as he enters.

NCA

luvmylabs23139
01-15-2011, 06:31 PM
IF the Justice Dept moves the venue due to the fact he executed a Fed.judge and attempted assassinating a sitting US Congressperson, this lawyer may press to have it moved to a state with no capital punishment...guess it wont be TEXAS

The good news is that it if the conviction happens in a state with no death penalty, the judge simply picks a state with the death penalty to do the actual execution.

luvmylabs23139
01-15-2011, 06:34 PM
Let's not forget that when the feds are done with him, he can still be tried in Arizona for multiple murders and get the death penalty there.

BrianW
01-16-2011, 09:34 AM
with this high profile attorney I still think she gets him a plea bargain down to life without parole based on diminished capacity or because that an impartial jury cant be found due to the media exposure...


Jmtc, I believe that Loughner is soon to become a life member of the Hinckley/Kaczynski fan clubs and be a burden to taxpayers for the rest of his unnatural days. :sad:

Fwiw, while mentioning John, I think it's a sad commentary on our judicial/mental health system that the man who tried to assassinate the POTUS, as of June 17, 2009, a Federal judge ruled that Hinckley would be given the ability to visit his mother for nine days at a time, rather than six, spend more time outside of the hospital, and even have a driver's license. :rolleyes:

BonMallari
01-16-2011, 11:27 PM
The good news is that it if the conviction happens in a state with no death penalty, the judge simply picks a state with the death penalty to do the actual execution.


The Feds just announced they are moving the trial to......

SAN DIEGO CALIF..

lets see him get the death penalty now :rolleyes:

unbelievable

M&K's Retrievers
01-16-2011, 11:39 PM
The Feds just announced they are moving the trial to......

SAN DIEGO CALIF..

lets see him get the death penalty now :rolleyes:

unbelievable

Neither will the clown from Ft. Hood. We will be feeding both of them for 50 years.