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Marvin S
01-15-2011, 01:28 PM
Don't want to lose this in a unrelated thread so will start our own ;).

This is a thread about investing philosophy. 1st a little background - as I reached the end of my engineering career I looked at things I might like to do to keep the mind active. Politics was out after my unsuccessful run at the State Legislature & a good view of the inner workings of that process. But liking numbers & having a reasonable level of success, a good econ prof in college, led me to financial planning. So I took several courses, did quite well, but was unwilling to accept the fact that I would have to work for someone else for two years, pimping their product, to be in line to get a CFP. So I opted out, do mostly my own research & use that of the Mutual Funds we own for additional ideas.

Of note, the FP classes I took were mostly myself & a bunch of retired Public employees wanting to supplement their income. When test time came I rarely missed a question while these people were scoring in the 70-85 range. What do they call someone who graduated last in their class at medical school "Doctor" & it would be no different in the CFP world. So that's what you could possibly get. I know that I offered to teach a couple of my dog friends how to invest, they felt it too hard so placed their money with a CFP who proceeded to lose 80% of the principal, so they don't play dogs no more :(.

Investing is not that hard & it's personally rewarding as is training your own dog. Reading, Numbers & a little common sense go a long way. The really neat thing is you never stop learning as the circumstances of the world change regularly & you need to be aware to take advantage of that!

There are tried & true axioms that never change:

1) Where are the customers yachts, hopefully the MOTR'er will get to ride on his broker's someday :-P.

2) Buy when the herd wants to sell, sell when the herd wants to buy.

3) "It's different this time", when that talk reaches a certain level it will be proven wrong :o.

4) When the news stand boy is giving stock tips, you probably want to lighten up you portfolio.

those are just a few that ring true!!!!!!!!!!

So if folks want to talk about investing we can do that in a generic manner. You young guys better know how cause the government only knows how to run Ponzi schemes & they are not to dependable. We did it for a while on Guthrie's website & hopefully people picked up something.

Buzz
01-15-2011, 01:42 PM
So if folks want to talk about investing we can do that in a generic manner.


Marvin, I would rather do the prep for a colonoscopy or have a root canal than give ANYONE advice on investing, LOL! ;-)

What you say about the last in class being called doctor is true about anything else. I remember it having a big impact on me watching teachers put details up on the board regarding the "adjustments" they made to test scores to fit the curve. It was an eye opener to see guys getting scores in the 60's getting adjusted up to an 85 and the guy getting a 94 getting adjusted up to a 95. The guy that got adjusted up to an 85 in my eyes was a failure, but he got his sheepskin and a decent GPA to boot. :rolleyes:

dnf777
01-15-2011, 01:46 PM
Just look at me, for example.
Since you're an RTF buddy, I'll let you in on a sure-fire secret.....

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/great-outdoors.jpg

Franco
01-15-2011, 02:57 PM
Here is an investment tip;

Take the Bears minus 10 points on Sunday.;-)

ducknwork
01-18-2011, 07:44 AM
Thanks for the advice...I do need to become more active in my investing. I have a nice sum of money in a managed retirement plan with Vanguard (my employer just shifted everything from Fidelity on 1-1-11), but I let that do whatever it does. My money has grown pretty substantially, but I don't know if I could have done better some other way.

I'll get there eventually...I figure I have got to be way ahead of the game anyway, having any money set aside at my age. When the kids go to school and my wife gets a job, we'll really be in business then. :) Plus, I have my eyes on a job with state retirement after 20 years and I am only 25...:cool: That'll help if I can get this job (and it looks like I may have a decent shot).

dnf777
01-18-2011, 07:58 AM
I'll get there eventually...I figure I have got to be way ahead of the game anyway, having any money set aside at my age. When the kids go to school and my wife gets a job, we'll really be in business then. :) Plus, I have my eyes on a job with state retirement after 20 years and I am only 25...:cool: That'll help if I can get this job (and it looks like I may have a decent shot).

Congratulations on being ahead of the game. I took my investors advice and started by sending in $25 a month when that's all I could afford. I'm amazed at what that has grown into.

If you get this gov't job with benefits, does that mean NO MORE bashing "big goobermint", "goobermint spending", "federal workers unions" "lazy gov't employees" ???

You know...you'll be workin' for da man!

ducknwork
01-18-2011, 08:03 AM
Congratulations on being ahead of the game. I took my investors advice and started by sending in $25 a month when that's all I could afford. I'm amazed at what that has grown into.

If you get this gov't job with benefits, does that mean NO MORE bashing "big goobermint", "goobermint spending", "federal workers unions" "lazy gov't employees" ???

You know...you'll be workin' for da man!



I can't help what everyone else posts, even if I do get that job. I don't remember ever typing any of those words. Must have me confused with someone else...Plus, in that job, I'll be contributing much to society (hopefully), so that gets me off the hook.:)

dnf777
01-18-2011, 08:40 AM
I can't help what everyone else posts, even if I do get that job. I don't remember ever typing any of those words. Must have me confused with someone else...Plus, in that job, I'll be contributing much to society (hopefully), so that gets me off the hook.:)

Just some well-deserved ribbing. I wish you the best in your job hunt. I have often considered taking a VA part-time stint, to get a little extra retirement assurance myself. As it is now, my only retirement plan is how many mason jars I can bury. No pension, no SS (or at least that's what I'm counting on)

A federal pension is probably safe for now. Wouldn't say the same for many state and municipal funds, and SS will not be for those who actually worked and paid into it. (you're too rich, ya know?)

mjh345
01-18-2011, 09:48 AM
in that job, I'll be contributing much to society (hopefully), so that gets me off the hook.:)

Pray tell what government job are you going to get where you will be "contributing much to society".
That is becoming an endangered species in our bloated public sector.
But good luck though, I'd just as soon a dog loving hunter be sucking on the govt teat as anyone else

road kill
01-18-2011, 10:04 AM
Pray tell what government job are you going to get where you will be "contributing much to society".
That is becoming an endangered species in our bloated public sector.
But good luck though, I'd just as soon a dog loving hunter be sucking on the govt teat as anyone else
Maybe a "Public Defender??"

RK

luvmylabs23139
01-18-2011, 10:15 AM
Marvin, I would rather do the prep for a colonoscopy or have a root canal than give ANYONE advice on investing, LOL! ;-)

What you say about the last in class being called doctor is true about anything else. I remember it having a big impact on me watching teachers put details up on the board regarding the "adjustments" they made to test scores to fit the curve. It was an eye opener to see guys getting scores in the 60's getting adjusted up to an 85 and the guy getting a 94 getting adjusted up to a 95. The guy that got adjusted up to an 85 in my eyes was a failure, but he got his sheepskin and a decent GPA to boot. :rolleyes:

Put this on record. I'm going to agree with Buzz. I had a prof tell the class on the first day her grading curve. She stated to the class that a D would be curved to a C+ and an A would be curved to an A- prior to any test.
It was a summer class where most students were not majoring in the subject(accounting) but were required to take the class for a BBA.
I will be the first to admit I called her her out and asked her to explain why a D became a C+ and an A became an A-. That was not well received by those that were happy they could meet the requirement because now the repeat D became an ok C+.
I bitched because a normal A became an A- and that messed up my GPA while the normal D became a C+ and helped those peoples GPA.

Franco
01-18-2011, 10:18 AM
Here is an investment tip;

Take the Bears minus 10 points on Sunday.;-)

How do you beat a 90% return in three and a half hours?
;-)

Mircosoft stock in its heyday didn't even come close!

ducknwork
01-18-2011, 11:59 AM
Pray tell what government job are you going to get where you will be "contributing much to society".
That is becoming an endangered species in our bloated public sector.
But good luck though, I'd just as soon a dog loving hunter be sucking on the govt teat as anyone else

Instructor at our local community college. I consider teaching others something that they can use to work, feed their families, pay taxes, and further their lives very beneficial to society. I really enjoy helping others learn and this would be a dream job for me. (Actually, a dream job would involve hunting, dogs, boats, or fishing, but this is a realistic dream job)

It's not going to happen in the near future though. The instructor that I am hoping to replace is retiring in 3 years...but they know about my interest level already and I have to do everything possible between now and then to better my chances of getting picked.

dnf777
01-18-2011, 01:01 PM
Instructor at a CC is a gov't job?
Where do you live, Commrade?

Marvin S
01-18-2011, 02:04 PM
Here is an investment tip;

Take the Bears minus 10 points on Sunday.;-)


How do you beat a 90% return in three and a half hours?
;-)

Mircosoft stock in its heyday didn't even come close!

How did your Pats-Jets bet go???????????? This isn't the first investing thread where you've posted with your gloomy outlook, for the life of me I can not figure out why?????? But I guess if you're good enough at sports betting you can get a 17 minute feature on "60 Minutes". Where I come from you don't promote yourself like that, you try to help others who are willing. You can't eat fame, nor is it very good collateral at a bank :o.

MSFT has been very good to those who got stock options, & I'm sure some of the very early investors, but it is no IBM. Nor will it ever be!!!!!!!!!!!! Never owned it, nor will I recommend it to anyone I am helping.

As for your 90% return, enjoy, there were too many variables in that game to make it a good bet.

Franco
01-18-2011, 02:32 PM
How did your Pats-Jets bet go???????????? This isn't the first investing thread where you've posted with your gloomy outlook, for the life of me I can not figure out why?????? But I guess if you're good enough at sports betting you can get a 17 minute feature on "60 Minutes". Where I come from you don't promote yourself like that, you try to help others who are willing. You can't eat fame, nor is it very good collateral at a bank :o.

MSFT has been very good to those who got stock options, & I'm sure some of the very early investors, but it is no IBM. Nor will it ever be!!!!!!!!!!!! Never owned it, nor will I recommend it to anyone I am helping.

As for your 90% return, enjoy, there were too many variables in that game to make it a good bet.

Pats v Jets not as good as my two winners on Saturday that are documented on the NFL Picks thread!;-) 75% this past weekend and 66% the weekend before all on the NFL thread. Be grateful, I toutted the Giants in the SB in 07.

The stock market is a bigger crap shoot because value is manipulated by the big investors that regulary take most of the smaller investors money. I wouldn't trust the stock market any further than I could toss a piano. It s run and controlled by crooks! They take money from suckers everyday.

Besides, I only gamble with what I consider to be play money. My real cash goes into real estate like I've said on here before. I've never, ever lost money in real estate from raw land to brick and mortar. Can you say that about the stock market?

And, the Bears pick was a lock, that's why I posted it here.

ducknwork
01-18-2011, 03:26 PM
Instructor at a CC is a gov't job?
Where do you live, Commrade?

Community Colleges are state run in NC. Are they not in PA?

Marvin S
01-18-2011, 04:37 PM
The stock market is a bigger crap shoot because value is manipulated by the big investors that regulary take most of the smaller investors money. I wouldn't trust the stock market any further than I could toss a piano. It s run and controlled by crooks! They take money from suckers everyday.

Besides, I only gamble with what I consider to be play money. My real cash goes into real estate like I've said on here before. I've never, ever lost money in real estate from raw land to brick and mortar. Can you say that about the stock market?

And, the Bears pick was a lock, that's why I posted it here.

Actually, Franco, the SM is less of a gamble than dealing with any government entity. Your RE ventures are subject to government manipulation, were it me I would be very nervous about that. The folks running the government make the SM guys look like AM's when it comes to bilking. But it being a free country, you may believe as you like, but I have the documented results in our bank account & portfolio that says you are wrong.

As for the Bears pick, it happened so you can say you were prescient, but no more so than any other contest, especially the 10 point spread. It always helps one's ego when things turn out the way they predict :razz:.

Gerry Clinchy
01-20-2011, 07:15 AM
Community Colleges are state run in NC. Are they not in PA?

In PA the CCs are typically county-funded. Still govt-funded, but down a level from the state. Local school districts contribute to the funding to get "resident" tuition for students who live within that school district.

This can be inconvenient. The closest CC to me is in another county :-) That particular CC has an exceptional program for culinary arts.

Hope you get the job ducknwork. Sounds like you'll be good at it.

ducknwork
01-20-2011, 08:01 AM
Hope you get the job ducknwork. Sounds like you'll be good at it.

Thanks. I've got my fingers crossed and I am saying my prayers about it! It'll be a couple more years before it happens, but the wait will make it all that much better!

dnf777
01-20-2011, 08:29 AM
This can be inconvenient. The closest CC to me is in another county :-) That particular CC has an exceptional program for culinary arts.



Just heard news that our Le Cordon Bleu school is closing after next graduation. That really sucks! It brought jobs, youth, and a continuous crop of fresh young chefs to our area...and a flood of up-start restaurants with EXCELLENT fair and good prices.

mjh345
01-20-2011, 10:06 AM
Good Luck Duck
I certainly have no problem with govt spending for TEACHING.
Overall education [administration] is bloated as hell

The Dept of Education ought to be eliminated IMHO

mjh345
01-20-2011, 10:11 AM
with EXCELLENT fair and good prices.

Did you take English with Luvvy and get A's?

Grading on the curve regards

Marvin S
01-20-2011, 12:40 PM
Just heard news that our Le Cordon Bleu school is closing after next graduation. That really sucks! It brought jobs, youth, and a continuous crop of fresh young chefs to our area...and a flood of up-start restaurants with EXCELLENT fair and good prices.

& the clown has spoken - isn't that what you get at a FAIR?


Good Luck Duck
I certainly have no problem with govt spending for TEACHING.
Overall education [administration] is bloated as hell

The Dept of Education ought to be eliminated IMHO

The press is getting on their case & well they may have to with the large number of high profile people who are criticizing the results of the present method of government education. & placing their own money behind their criticism :cool:.

As for the DoE, how many people have said it serves no useful purpose, said they wanted to get rid of it, but fail to follow through (should I have used threw) ;).


Did you take English with Luvvy and get A's?

Grading on the curve regards

Grading on the curve is fine as long as the questions are hard enough that no one gets 100% correct.

In this environment the questions are only hard for some :-P.

dnf777
01-20-2011, 01:00 PM
[QUOTE=Marvin S;735954
Grading on the curve is fine as long as the questions are hard enough that no one gets 100% correct.

.[/QUOTE]

The mediocre has spoken!

Only someone who never scored 100% would say something like that! :(

What's that sig line? Obsession is what the lazy call the dedicated?

Marvin S
01-20-2011, 05:50 PM
The mediocre has spoken!

Only someone who never scored 100% would say something like that! :(

What's that sig line? Obsession is what the lazy call the dedicated?

From someone in a profession that urns their mistakes :-P. I could continue these postings but I would prefer to do same with someone with the intellecual capacity to understand.


In this environment the questions are only hard for some :-P.

Please provide something in your numerous daily postings that fails to resemble the comment you left out.

ducknwork
01-21-2011, 10:20 PM
Oddly enough, that job hunt is going to get started a tad sooner than I thought. We had a meeting today and they announced that the plant will be closing down in April.:(

I guess I'll be dipping into my emergency fund and getting me some of that Obama money while I'm at it!;)

They told us that they cannot make the product profitable enough to remain open. The Korean companies (LG, Samsung, Kenmore) own 70% of the US market, leaving 30% for the rest of us, including the big guys, like Maytag and Whirlpool. They aren't shipping our jobs overseas, just getting out of the market because we can't compete with cheap overseas labor. Something just doesn't seem right about that...

Marvin S
01-21-2011, 10:46 PM
Oddly enough, that job hunt is going to get started a tad sooner than I thought. We had a meeting today and they announced that the plant will be closing down in April.:(

I guess I'll be dipping into my emergency fund and getting me some of that Obama money while I'm at it!;)

They told us that they cannot make the product profitable enough to remain open. The Korean companies (LG, Samsung, Kenmore) own 70% of the US market, leaving 30% for the rest of us, including the big guys, like Maytag and Whirlpool. They aren't shipping our jobs overseas, just getting out of the market because we can't compete with cheap overseas labor. Something just doesn't seem right about that...

What a bummer!!!!!! Guess you will not be reading the investment page, though I did when I didn't have any money. Good luck in your job search & remember, you paid for your state's UE benefits. But not for the Federal extensions. Some on this forum can't separate the two!!!!!!!!!!!

After WWII the US rebuilt all their enemies factories & for years we had our aZZ handed to us. They paid high wages so most of the advantage was in the modernization & logistics. Unfortunately, when bean counters run the show sensible management decisions go by the wayside, 8 figure bonuses regards.

charly_t
01-21-2011, 11:01 PM
Oddly enough, that job hunt is going to get started a tad sooner than I thought. We had a meeting today and they announced that the plant will be closing down in April.:(

I guess I'll be dipping into my emergency fund and getting me some of that Obama money while I'm at it!;)

They told us that they cannot make the product profitable enough to remain open. The Korean companies (LG, Samsung, Kenmore) own 70% of the US market, leaving 30% for the rest of us, including the big guys, like Maytag and Whirlpool. They aren't shipping our jobs overseas, just getting out of the market because we can't compete with cheap overseas labor. Something just doesn't seem right about that...

Ducknwork, I will be praying for a speedy job offer for you. God Bless.

ducknwork
01-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Ducknwork, I will be praying for a speedy job offer for you. God Bless.

Thank you very much for the prayers.

mjh345
01-21-2011, 11:30 PM
They aren't shipping our jobs overseas, just getting out of the market because we can't compete with cheap overseas labor. Something just doesn't seem right about that...

Agreed, something really doesn't seem right about that
Sorry for your bad news, and good luck with a speedy and successful job search

One door closes and another opens regards

JDogger
01-21-2011, 11:46 PM
Oddly enough, that job hunt is going to get started a tad sooner than I thought. We had a meeting today and they announced that the plant will be closing down in April.:(

I guess I'll be dipping into my emergency fund and getting me some of that Obama money while I'm at it!;)

They told us that they cannot make the product profitable enough to remain open. The Korean companies (LG, Samsung, Kenmore) own 70% of the US market, leaving 30% for the rest of us, including the big guys, like Maytag and Whirlpool. They aren't shipping our jobs overseas, just getting out of the market because we can't compete with cheap overseas labor. Something just doesn't seem right about that...

Good luck duck...and I mean that...JD

ducknwork
01-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Good luck duck...and I mean that...JD

Thanks...

and no, you may not come and eat my children.


;-):razz:

depittydawg
01-22-2011, 01:17 PM
Don't want to lose this in a unrelated thread so will start our own ;).

This is a thread about investing philosophy. 1st a little background - as I reached the end of my engineering career I looked at things I might like to do to keep the mind active. Politics was out after my unsuccessful run at the State Legislature & a good view of the inner workings of that process. But liking numbers & having a reasonable level of success, a good econ prof in college, led me to financial planning. So I took several courses, did quite well, but was unwilling to accept the fact that I would have to work for someone else for two years, pimping their product, to be in line to get a CFP. So I opted out, do mostly my own research & use that of the Mutual Funds we own for additional ideas.

Of note, the FP classes I took were mostly myself & a bunch of retired Public employees wanting to supplement their income. When test time came I rarely missed a question while these people were scoring in the 70-85 range. What do they call someone who graduated last in their class at medical school "Doctor" & it would be no different in the CFP world. So that's what you could possibly get. I know that I offered to teach a couple of my dog friends how to invest, they felt it too hard so placed their money with a CFP who proceeded to lose 80% of the principal, so they don't play dogs no more :(.

Investing is not that hard & it's personally rewarding as is training your own dog. Reading, Numbers & a little common sense go a long way. The really neat thing is you never stop learning as the circumstances of the world change regularly & you need to be aware to take advantage of that!

There are tried & true axioms that never change:

1) Where are the customers yachts, hopefully the MOTR'er will get to ride on his broker's someday :-P.

2) Buy when the herd wants to sell, sell when the herd wants to buy.

3) "It's different this time", when that talk reaches a certain level it will be proven wrong :o.

4) When the news stand boy is giving stock tips, you probably want to lighten up you portfolio.

those are just a few that ring true!!!!!!!!!!

So if folks want to talk about investing we can do that in a generic manner. You young guys better know how cause the government only knows how to run Ponzi schemes & they are not to dependable. We did it for a while on Guthrie's website & hopefully people picked up something.

So I took several courses, did quite well, but was unwilling to accept the fact that I would have to work for someone else for two years, pimping their product, to be in line to get a CFP. So I opted out, do mostly my own research & use that of the Mutual Funds we own for additional ideas.
Of note, the FP classes I took were mostly myself & a bunch of retired Public employees wanting to supplement their income. When test time came I rarely missed a question while these people were scoring in the 70-85 range. What do they call someone who graduated last in their class at medical school "Doctor" & it would be no different in the CFP world. So that's what you could possibly get. I know that I offered to teach a couple of my dog friends how to invest, they felt it too hard so placed their money with a CFP who proceeded to lose 80% of the principal, so they don't play dogs no more :(.

.[/QUOTE]

Couple of notes on this. A few years ago a hired at a large Investment firm which will go un-named. This firm, as most, hired large numbers of people, put them through a course of preparation for the Series 7, and Series 63 licensing, then turned them loose with sales goals. I scored in the 90% brackets in each exam. Most in my class were, as you say in your experience, in the 70% bracket, 70% being the minimum for licensing. Many failed the exams, which were not easy by any means, several times and had to retake them until they passed.
Now I can say for a fact that those who are successful in this business achieved their success not because of investment savvy, but by putting in many hours and developing excellent sales skills. If you have a broker that is in the 6 figure brackets or higher in income, you can rest assured, he / she is an exceptional sales person.
For myself, I was in it for the stategy of the game. To me a "win" wasn't necessariy landing the most accounts, but making the best return for customers. I loved that part of it. Needless to say I eventually got out of that business, because of the intense sales pressure, and what I viewed as a conflict between the pressure to 'sell' and the desire to focus on investment strategies.
That isn't to say that there are a lot of brokers out there that are good at both. One advantage of using a broker is that he / she is going to be much more objective with YOUR money than you will be. When it's your own hard earned money, its hard to let it ride through the risks. In my case, I achieved higher returns for my clients than I did for myself for this very reason.
So what is the expectation? According to data I have read, the majority of mutual funds, brokers, and professionals in this business under perform to the markets at large. And for that, they extract a pretty good chunck of your money.
Investing is like anything else in life. If you know absolutely nothing about your car, what are the chances you'll get hornswaggled into putting more money into "maintenance" then is necessary? Same thing holds true for investments. You don't need to be an expert. But you need to understand the principles, goals, and expectations. You need to know how to evaluate what your broker tells you. After all, it is YOUR money, and YOUR decision.
My advice is to get more than one opinion. And form your own opinion on your strategy and mix. Then make your decisions. When you get into this stuff, its fun!
good luck.

depittydawg
01-22-2011, 01:28 PM
Oddly enough, that job hunt is going to get started a tad sooner than I thought. We had a meeting today and they announced that the plant will be closing down in April.:(

I guess I'll be dipping into my emergency fund and getting me some of that Obama money while I'm at it!;)

They told us that they cannot make the product profitable enough to remain open. The Korean companies (LG, Samsung, Kenmore) own 70% of the US market, leaving 30% for the rest of us, including the big guys, like Maytag and Whirlpool. They aren't shipping our jobs overseas, just getting out of the market because we can't compete with cheap overseas labor. Something just doesn't seem right about that...

That really sucks. I've been there before. The problem n the US is that we don't have a manufacturing strategy in our country anymore. For some reason, American policy has dramatically shifted over the last generation from one valuing and guarding our industires, and holding our workers and their contributions in high regard, to simply peddling them to the lowest bidders for the sole benefit of short term profits and return to investers. Go figure.

BTW, most of the capital that has built Korea, China, etc originated in the US. We could go into a lot of details, but that is for another thread. Like I said, I've been there, just about everybody has. Good luck.

Duck Blind
01-22-2011, 03:00 PM
Oddly enough, that job hunt is going to get started a tad sooner than I thought. We had a meeting today and they announced that the plant will be closing down in April.:(

Sorry to hear that...
The great pioneers of the industrial revolution would role over in their grave if they knew what was going on in this country. Some call it "globalization". I call it greed.

You should try to latch on to one of those government jobs that Obama has created for you. You're already paying for it.

Thoughts and prayers are with you my friend...good luck on the hunt.

--Brian

dnf777
01-22-2011, 06:17 PM
Good luck Duck. You sound like a resourceful kinda guy, and will figure something out soon.


On a separate and non-personal note, we all got a chuckle out of Rush's mocking of the Chinese. I'll bet everytime an American factory closes and they open one in its place and give a couple thousand jobs to their people....who does the mocking. Makes my blood boil.

But try to pass a law incentivizing corporations to stay WITHIN our borders.....and WHOA NELLIE! (in other words....enact a FAIR trade agreement, not FREE trade)

Blackstone
01-22-2011, 08:26 PM
Oddly enough, that job hunt is going to get started a tad sooner than I thought. We had a meeting today and they announced that the plant will be closing down in April.:(

I guess I'll be dipping into my emergency fund and getting me some of that Obama money while I'm at it!;)

They told us that they cannot make the product profitable enough to remain open. The Korean companies (LG, Samsung, Kenmore) own 70% of the US market, leaving 30% for the rest of us, including the big guys, like Maytag and Whirlpool. They aren't shipping our jobs overseas, just getting out of the market because we can't compete with cheap overseas labor. Something just doesn't seem right about that...

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I hope your job search goes well, and ends quickly.

huntinman
01-22-2011, 09:19 PM
Good luck Duck. You sound like a resourceful kinda guy, and will figure something out soon.


On a separate and non-personal note, we all got a chuckle out of Rush's mocking of the Chinese. I'll bet everytime an American factory closes and they open one in its place and give a couple thousand jobs to their people....who does the mocking. Makes my blood boil.

But try to pass a law incentivizing corporations to stay WITHIN our borders.....and WHOA NELLIE! (in other words....enact a FAIR trade agreement, not FREE trade)

I have a novel idea, how about lower corporate taxes, reduce regulations and in general get the hell out of the way of business? Then maybe the jobs would come back. We don't need more laws. We need Less gov't intervention. Boil away doc.

dnf777
01-22-2011, 10:41 PM
I have a novel idea, how about lower corporate taxes, reduce regulations and in general get the hell out of the way of business? Then maybe the jobs would come back. We don't need more laws. We need Less gov't intervention. Boil away doc.

That's what I've been saying. Corporate lobbyists have owned Bush I, Bush II, Clinton, and now Obama in regards to opening up cheap labor markets at the expense of American jobs. (uh, I mean 'NAFTA')

Obama has just proposed sweeping changes to help remove many regulations that he sees detrimental to job growth in America. This is after consulting with business and investment leaders. That's what everybody wants the president to do, right? Listen to industry leaders and work together to foster an environment that will lead to job growth? Let's hear an "attaboy"?? :rolleyes:

Just kidding. Obama can't wipe his butt in the right direction without getting attacked and criticized by the right! :D

Blackstone
01-22-2011, 11:32 PM
I have a novel idea, how about lower corporate taxes, reduce regulations and in general get the hell out of the way of business? Then maybe the jobs would come back. We don't need more laws. We need Less gov't intervention. Boil away doc.

Isn't that pretty much how we got to where we are now. They reduced regulations and got out of the way. As a result, the financial industry and housing market collapsed, and the jobs went to China & India. What we need are tax incentives for companies willing to manufacture in this country. And, we need Americans to step up and buy products manufactured in this country, even if they cost a little more.

depittydawg
01-22-2011, 11:43 PM
I have a novel idea, how about lower corporate taxes, reduce regulations and in general get the hell out of the way of business? Then maybe the jobs would come back. We don't need more laws. We need Less gov't intervention. Boil away doc.

How bout we just go back to what worked for over a hundred years. If you want to sell it in America, you make it in America. That is the current policy of China. And they are the ones steeling our jobs...

BonMallari
01-23-2011, 03:52 AM
How bout we just go back to what worked for over a hundred years. If you want to sell it in America, you make it in America. That is the current policy of China. And they are the ones steeling our jobs...

China isn't stealing our jobs :rolleyes: Govt restrictions and rising labor and manufacturing restrictions have made it cost prohibitive to make many items here in the US..even many electronics that were once the domain of Made in Japan are now being assembled in China

here is a prime example : a SIX pack of G&H duck decoys made in Henryetta Oklahoma sell for roughly 130.00 + ( best decoys , I have owned)...

a DOZEN decoys from just about any other major distributor FA, GHG, or Avery is about the same price

Now who is going to sell more decoys ??

depittydawg
01-23-2011, 10:31 AM
China isn't stealing our jobs :rolleyes: Govt restrictions and rising labor and manufacturing restrictions have made it cost prohibitive to make many items here in the US..even many electronics that were once the domain of Made in Japan are now being assembled in China

here is a prime example : a SIX pack of G&H duck decoys made in Henryetta Oklahoma sell for roughly 130.00 + ( best decoys , I have owned)...

a DOZEN decoys from just about any other major distributor FA, GHG, or Avery is about the same price

Now who is going to sell more decoys ??

And why is it cheaper to make products in China? In some industries it is simply labor costs. But in many industries, including anything to do with technology, it is also government subsidies. The Chinese have identified core industries that they are agressively subsidizing in order to capture future market share. China and most of the world "protects" its core industries. The US no longer protects any of its industrial base. The results speak for themselves. I would agree with you in one respect. The Chinese aren't stealing our jobs; we are giving them away.
The answer to your question is tariffs. Tariffs are the way an advanced country like the US protects its industrial base. Tariffs worked in the US for over a hundred years. They currenntly work in China, along with most of the rest of the world. What we need in America, is Tariffs.
Without tariffs the only solution is for American workers to give up all the rights that they earned over the last 3 generations. Now I don't know about you, but I'll be damned if I'm going to ask my kids give up a 40 hr week, child labor laws, and the majority of workers rights that my grandfathers generation fought for and achieved.

Blackstone
01-23-2011, 01:07 PM
China isn't stealing our jobs :rolleyes: Govt restrictions and rising labor and manufacturing restrictions have made it cost prohibitive to make many items here in the US..even many electronics that were once the domain of Made in Japan are now being assembled in China

here is a prime example : a SIX pack of G&H duck decoys made in Henryetta Oklahoma sell for roughly 130.00 + ( best decoys , I have owned)...

a DOZEN decoys from just about any other major distributor FA, GHG, or Avery is about the same price

Now who is going to sell more decoys ??

Rising labor costs is not the issue. Manufacturing labor wages in this country, with the exception of the UAW, has been almost stagnant for the last 20 years. There is also the cost of environmental regulations that keep manufacturers from spewing out toxic substances. Those types of regulations donít exist in China and Mexico.

Of course, U.S. consumers can demand U.S. made goods. They will cost more, but it will help keep people in jobs.

BonMallari
01-23-2011, 01:15 PM
Rising labor costs is not the issue. Manufacturing labor wages in this country, with the exception of the UAW, has been almost stagnant for the last 20 years. There is also the cost of environmental regulations that keep manufacturers from spewing out toxic substances. Those types of regulations donít exist in China and Mexico.

Of course, U.S. consumers can demand U.S. made goods. They will cost more, but it will help keep people in jobs.


US consumers will buy the least expensive product they can, they might PREFER a US made good but in the end its the price that will usually motivate them

Blackstone
01-23-2011, 01:37 PM
US consumers will buy the least expensive product they can, they might PREFER a US made good but in the end its the price that will usually motivate them

Thatís the problem. We look short term on everything. We will buy goods at Walmart to save a few dollars. In order to supply those cheaper goods to Walmart, some U.S. manufacturer shut down their plant here and moved their operations to China. The workers terminated at the U.S. plant is now forced to take a service job for almost Ĺ the pay, if they can find a job at all. The displaced workers can no longer afford to buy the goods you produce, so your plant shuts down, or they move operation to China to reduce costs, so they can sell at lower prices. Now, youíre out of work and forced to take a lower paying job too. They cycle continues.

dnf777
01-23-2011, 01:47 PM
US consumers will buy the least expensive product they can, they might PREFER a US made good but in the end its the price that will usually motivate them

Not true.

I ordered a Filson catalog, and was willing to pay $140 for an American spun and assembled original Filson wool shirt. Not until it arrived, did I see the "Made in Mexico" tag. They have since changed their web site to say, "imported".

Even for those of us willing to pay extra for American made, it just can't be done. I was willing to do more and pay more than just flap gums about buying American, and you just can't do it anyomore.

Their catalogs now go in the garbage. I can buy a Mexican made shirt from LLbean or walmart for FAR less that $140!

BonMallari
01-23-2011, 02:22 PM
I am probably more brand loyal than most on here, but unfortunately I dont get to choose where the companies I like have their goods made...its also the reason I shoot Remington shotguns because they are made in the USA (disclaimer: I did shoot a Krieghoff -made in Germany )..but when Mizuno quit making my golf clubs in Japan and had them assembled in China, there wasnt a darn thing I could do about it, because I still thought they were the best clubs made..

Do I like USA made goods..damn right I do...I prefer Rawlings BB gloves, and I prefer Calif wines over foreign imports..and I drive a Chevy truck..but my next one may be a Toyota ...if a product is good and fits my current budget I will buy it..there are very few products I will not buy based on where they are made or who owns them (except gasoline)

dnf777
01-23-2011, 04:03 PM
I am probably more brand loyal than most on here, but unfortunately I dont get to choose where the companies I like have their goods made...its also the reason I shoot Remington shotguns because they are made in the USA (disclaimer: I did shoot a Krieghoff -made in Germany )..but when Mizuno quit making my golf clubs in Japan and had them assembled in China, there wasnt a darn thing I could do about it, because I still thought they were the best clubs made..

Do I like USA made goods..damn right I do...I prefer Rawlings BB gloves, and I prefer Calif wines over foreign imports..and I drive a Chevy truck..but my next one may be a Toyota ...if a product is good and fits my current budget I will buy it..there are very few products I will not buy based on where they are made or who owns them (except gasoline)


You point out an unfortunate reality. I just upgraded to a Chevy 2500HD, but seriously considered a Toyota. The final considerations were 1) Chevy/GMC still make a damn good truck, and 2) my plow harness fit the new chevy, so didn't have to buy a new one.

Might be a good thread to start, on what GOOD quality American products are still available, that RTFers use.

I hear they still make some great maple syrup in Vermont? ;)

Roger Perry
01-23-2011, 04:15 PM
That’s the problem. We look short term on everything. We will buy goods at Walmart to save a few dollars. In order to supply those cheaper goods to Walmart, some U.S. manufacturer shut down their plant here and moved their operations to China. The workers terminated at the U.S. plant is now forced to take a service job for almost Ĺ the pay, if they can find a job at all. The displaced workers can no longer afford to buy the goods you produce, so your plant shuts down, or they move operation to China to reduce costs, so they can sell at lower prices. Now, you’re out of work and forced to take a lower paying job too. They cycle continues.

Case in point, in my hometown of West Bend Wisconsin, the West Bend Company which employed over 3,000 people and had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd shift closed it's doors and moved it's product line to I believe China. The property where the West Bend Company once was is now a Condominimum community. From what I hear the Geil company also shut down. The Geil company manufactured farm and machinery equipment. Those jobs are hard to replace.

dnf777
01-23-2011, 04:21 PM
Does anyone here disagree that you need to have a strong manufacturing base in order to have a sound economy?

Experts tell us that's not so. Then again, experts got us into this mess!

But can technology and service sectors maintain and grow a solid, secure economy, without factories?