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Marvin S
02-15-2011, 09:20 PM
From the National Review 2-21-11 article "Pigford's Harvest":

In the early 90's Timothy Pigford drew up a lawsuit against the USDA claiming discriminatory treatment in his ability to get financing to allow him to increase the size of his operation. After much work on his part it was taken on by an attorney who managed to win a class action settlement for up to 2500 farmers, which was eventually won by plaintiff. As the Clinton Administration was anxious to grease the skids for Algore they settled & the legislation was pushed through by Newt Gingrich.

The Pigford Class - those eligible for settlement - originally was defined as:

All African American farmers who (1) farmed between 1-1-1983 & 2-1-1997 & (2) applied, during that time period, for participation in a federal farm program with USDA, & as a direct result of determination by USDA in response to said application, believed they were discrimated against on the basis of race, & filed a written discrimination complaint with USDA in that time period.

Both sides acknowledged the class size wasn't likely to exceed 2,500. With scant evidence one was allowed to collect a virtually automatic cash payment of $50,000.

But then entered the "attempted to farm" class which started pouring in & the number of claimants is at 100,000 , while a 1997 census only found 18,500 black farmers with a liberal extimate that no more than 33,000 existed in the time frame indicated.

One of the claimants along with her husband was Shirley Sherrod (that one) who along with her husband collected $13,000,000 just 3 days after her name became famous.

Somewhere along the way Andrew Breitbart became interested in the feeding frenzy. His contention is most claims were frivolous at best & fraudulent at worst. A MS couple murdered a guy they thought might testify in their fraudulent claim case & are now spending life in the Xbar hotel. The FBI figures that 1/2 the claims at the minimum are fraudulent but do not want to prosecute for fear of being tagged with the "racist" label. The USDA has turned a blind eye to the the issue. One USDA employee told Breitbart: we saw claims from affluent areas , Palm Beach & Palm Springs, one applicant claimed the Chicago office discriminated against him when they had never had a Chicago office. He called Pigford the biggest scam against the American taxpayer in the history of the US.

The enabling legislation was running out, there were a lot of claimants on the rolls so in 2007 the junior senator from IL, on his own added an amendment to a bill called the "Pigford Claims Remedy Act" which added $1.25 bill to the pot with an additional 10 years to climb on the gravy train. Last December the POTUS heralded Pigford II as the close of a long & unfortunate chapter in our history.

So progressives, what say you? It looks like you own this one bigtime :eek:.

Uncle Bill
02-16-2011, 10:24 AM
From the National Review 2-21-11 article "Pigford's Harvest":

In the early 90's Timothy Pigford drew up a lawsuit against the USDA claiming discriminatory treatment in his ability to get financing to allow him to increase the size of his operation. After much work on his part it was taken on by an attorney who managed to win a class action settlement for up to 2500 farmers, which was eventually won by plaintiff. As the Clinton Administration was anxious to grease the skids for Algore they settled & the legislation was pushed through by Newt Gingrich.

The Pigford Class - those eligible for settlement - originally was defined as:

All African American farmers who (1) farmed between 1-1-1983 & 2-1-1997 & (2) applied, during that time period, for participation in a federal farm program with USDA, & as a direct result of determination by USDA in response to said application, believed they were discrimated against on the basis of race, & filed a written discrimination complaint with USDA in that time period.

Both sides acknowledged the class size wasn't likely to exceed 2,500. With scant evidence one was allowed to collect a virtually automatic cash payment of $50,000.

But then entered the "attempted to farm" class which started pouring in & the number of claimants is at 100,000 , while a 1997 census only found 18,500 black farmers with a liberal extimate that no more than 33,000 existed in the time frame indicated.

One of the claimants along with her husband was Shirley Sherrod (that one) who along with her husband collected $13,000,000 just 3 days after her name became famous.

Somewhere along the way Andrew Breitbart became interested in the feeding frenzy. His contention is most claims were frivolous at best & fraudulent at worst. A MS couple murdered a guy they thought might testify in their fraudulent claim case & are now spending life in the Xbar hotel. The FBI figures that 1/2 the claims at the minimum are fraudulent but do not want to prosecute for fear of being tagged with the "racist" label. The USDA has turned a blind eye to the the issue. One USDA employee told Breitbart: we saw claims from affluent areas , Palm Beach & Palm Springs, one applicant claimed the Chicago office discriminated against him when they had never had a Chicago office. He called Pigford the biggest scam against the American taxpayer in the history of the US.

The enabling legislation was running out, there were a lot of claimants on the rolls so in 2007 the junior senator from IL, on his own added an amendment to a bill called the "Pigford Claims Remedy Act" which added $1.25 bill to the pot with an additional 10 years to climb on the gravy train. Last December the POTUS heralded Pigford II as the close of a long & unfortunate chapter in our history.

So progressives, what say you? It looks like you own this one bigtime :eek:.



You, my dear friend, are dilusional if you think for a minute the reigning head of this oligarchy is going to be blamed for anything this obvious.

I could care less if the world calls me racial, what is this fiasco but pure something-for-nothing-blacks wanting to rip off their nations taxpayers.

Want something else racial, Marvin? Come back to Sodak, and get involved in the Native Americans attempts at re-claiming the entire Black Hills...OR, of course, gazillions of $$$$ to offset their hurt feelings etc.

There is no answers to these type of claims, and the ludicrous time it takes to get them settled. It's all in the hands of lawyers. Why should they have any reason to hurry, since by the time any of these claims are settled, the attorneys will have poketed the 'slush fund' proceeds, so "surprise", we need to go after Joe Taxpayer again.

When will this country get past all the PC malarkey, and return to saying it like it is. Enough is enough. Look at the joke the airline industry has become because we cannot do ANY profiling. What fiasco. Wonder how many like me have just given up on any form of flying. When I had to remove my shoes and walk the serpentine in stocking feet in Memphis, that was my final plane ride.

WAKE UP AMERICA. DON'T YOU SEE WHAT THE HAVE-NOTHING BULLSHIT PEDDLERS ARE FOISTING ON THIS NATION???

UB

Blackstone
02-16-2011, 03:00 PM
I would be careful about posting anything with Andrew Breitbart’s name attached to it. Without even doing any research, I see inaccuracies and mis-representations in this story.

troy schwab
02-16-2011, 03:37 PM
IMO--- probably one of the biggest mistakes by government in modern history to go basically ignored by the general public and media...... This should have come out during his election...... hmmmmmm........ What a joke our government has become....... freakin comical.

Marvin S
02-16-2011, 04:35 PM
I would be careful about posting anything with Andrew Breitbart’s name attached to it. Without even doing any research, I see inaccuracies and mis-representations in this story.


From the National Review 2-21-11 article "Pigford's Harvest":

Ya gotta do better than that - NR is highly respected. I don't waste the effort of a post that is gossip. The reference to Breitbart is only in passing :) . This is serious stuff & if I may repeat myself, the progressives Own it.

Possibly someone more computer literate than I can post the link.

huntinman
02-16-2011, 04:44 PM
Marvin, you said that is from NR 2-21-11, but today is 2-16-11... Looking at the wrong line on the calendar?

Marvin S
02-16-2011, 05:03 PM
Marvin, you said that is from NR 2-21-11, but today is 2-16-11... Looking at the wrong line on the calendar?

Nope, that's the issue as mags usually deliver ahead. Fortunately I can still read the calendar as the big eightzero happens Friday :cool:.

dnf777
02-16-2011, 05:13 PM
Nope, that's the issue as mags usually deliver ahead. Fortunately I can still read the calendar as the big eightzero happens Friday :cool:.

Holy Crap!

Happy Birthday! And I mean that.

Just for fun, when you were born:

The Star Spangled Banner was made the official National Anthem

The Oakland Bay bridge was commissioned

Alka-Seltzer was introduced

bread: 8 cents/loaf
Average new car: $530
Average new home: $6796
Dow Average: 78
Best Picture: Cimarron
Best Actor: Lionel Barrymore

huntinman
02-16-2011, 05:13 PM
Nope, that's the issue as mags usually deliver ahead. Fortunately I can still read the calendar as the big eightzero happens Friday :cool:.


No way! Really? Congrats!! Sure beats the hell out of the alternative...

huntinman
02-16-2011, 05:14 PM
Holy Crap!

Happy Birthday! And I mean that.

Just for fun, when you were born:

The Star Spangled Banner was made the official National Anthem

The Oakland Bay bridge was commissioned

Alka-Seltzer was introduced

bread: 8 cents/loaf
Average new car: $530
Average new home: $6796
Dow Average: 78
Best Picture: Cimarron
Best Actor: Lionel Barrymore

They had cars then??:confused:

Blackstone
02-16-2011, 08:04 PM
Ya gotta do better than that - NR is highly respected. I don't waste the effort of a post that is gossip. The reference to Breitbart is only in passing :) . This is serious stuff & if I may repeat myself, the progressives Own it.

Possibly someone more computer literate than I can post the link.

I don't the time right now to do much research, but here are a couple of things I saw that raised a question in my mind.


One of the claimants along with her husband was Shirley Sherrod (that one) who along with her husband collected $13,000,000 just 3 days after her name became famous.

New Communities, Inc., a farming cooporative that Sherrod and her husband had been a part of was awarded $13,000,000 as a part of the law suit settlement. Sherod and her husband received $300k in damages for the loss of their land and “pain and suffering.” The also got $1.5 mil. in debt forgiveness. This was in 2009, not in 2010 after the whole USDA incident.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2006058,00.html



Somewhere along the way Andrew Breitbart became interested in the feeding frenzy. His contention is most claims were frivolous at best & fraudulent at worst. A MS couple murdered a guy they thought might testify in their fraudulent claim case & are now spending life in the Xbar hotel. The FBI figures that 1/2 the claims at the minimum are fraudulent but do not want to prosecute for fear of being tagged with the "racist" label. The USDA has turned a blind eye to the the issue. One USDA employee told Breitbart: we saw claims from affluent areas , Palm Beach & Palm Springs, one applicant claimed the Chicago office discriminated against him when they had never had a Chicago office. He called Pigford the biggest scam against the American taxpayer in the history of the US.

When presented with Breitbart’s allegations, a USDA spokesman issued the following response:

“These accusations are nothing more than an attempt to derail an effort to provide long-overdue compensation to thousands of farmers who were discriminated against over several decades. Current census numbers on black farmers are not the proper guide for the number of claimants, and certainly no basis for allegations of fraud. Out of the 15,000 claims processed under Pigford I, the FBI determined that only 3 claims were fraudulent, and this Administration is committed to ensuring that the new claims process has integrity and provides justice to those who have suffered discrimination.


With scant evidence one was allowed to collect a virtually automatic cash payment of $50,000.

Only about 63% of those claims were approved, even using the less-stringent Track A burden of proof.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/usda-responds-to-andrew-breitbart-and-rep-steve-king-on-black-farmer-settlement/

http://nationaljournal.com/congress/vilsack-defends-usda-s-pigford-ii-settlement-20101122

cotts135
02-17-2011, 05:40 AM
You, my dear friend, are dilusional if you think for a minute the reigning head of this oligarchy is going to be blamed for anything this obvious.

I could care less if the world calls me racial, what is this fiasco but pure something-for-nothing-blacks wanting to rip off their nations taxpayers.

Want something else racial, Marvin? Come back to Sodak, and get involved in the Native Americans attempts at re-claiming the entire Black Hills...OR, of course, gazillions of $$$$ to offset their hurt feelings etc.

There is no answers to these type of claims, and the ludicrous time it takes to get them settled. It's all in the hands of lawyers. Why should they have any reason to hurry, since by the time any of these claims are settled, the attorneys will have poketed the 'slush fund' proceeds, so "surprise", we need to go after Joe Taxpayer again.

When will this country get past all the PC malarkey, and return to saying it like it is. Enough is enough. Look at the joke the airline industry has become because we cannot do ANY profiling. What fiasco. Wonder how many like me have just given up on any form of flying. When I had to remove my shoes and walk the serpentine in stocking feet in Memphis, that was my final plane ride.

WAKE UP AMERICA. DON'T YOU SEE WHAT THE HAVE-NOTHING BULLSHIT PEDDLERS ARE FOISTING ON THIS NATION???

UB

Please tell me your really not serious about that statement.

Uncle Bill
02-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Please tell me your really not serious about that statement.


I seldom make statements I'm not serious about. Like right now, I'm very serious when I say to a person as gullible as you, YOU and your ilk are the reason for the problems this nation faces. And if you believe, like I suspect you do, the TSA is doing a great job, welcome to fantasy land...your blindness will set you free.

UB

road kill
02-17-2011, 10:46 AM
I seldom make statements I'm not serious about. Like right now, I'm very serious when I say to a person as gullible as you, YOU and your ilk are the reason for the problems this nation faces. And if you believe, like I suspect you do, the TSA is doing a great job, welcome to fantasy land...your blindness will set you free.

UB

These are the "useful idiots" to the secular progressive left!!

The beautiful irony!!!!!:D


RK

dnf777
02-17-2011, 11:07 AM
These are the "useful idiots" to the secular progressive left!!

The beautiful irony!!!!!:D


RK

Another thread hijacked by useless name-calling. (or is it "soiled"?)

Sad....so sad, when the police break the laws they usually enforce.

road kill
02-17-2011, 11:10 AM
Another thread hijacked by useless name-calling. (or is it "soiled"?)

Sad....so sad, when the police break the laws they usually enforce.

You wonder why noone here likes you??

Another attempt to derail a thread and make it personal.
_________________________________________________

Useful idiot: In political jargon, the term useful idiot was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in Western countries. The implication is that though the person in question naïvely thinks themselves an ally of the Soviets or other ideologies, they are actually held in contempt by them, and were being cynically used. The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.
_________________________________________________

A shame you don't read more........


Just tryin' to help.:D




RK

ducknwork
02-17-2011, 12:37 PM
In the famous words of Ron White...

"That'll shut 'er up....for a minute..."

dnf777
02-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Oh, so its a snobby elitist name calling you engage in? I guess I'm just below that.
I'll leave the sophisticated name calling to you from now on.....promise.

And I know perfectly well why many here don't like me, but its very polite and kind of you to point that out. Hope you have a nice day.

sandyg
02-17-2011, 01:16 PM
Oh, so its a snobby elitist name calling you engage in? I guess I'm just below that.
I'll leave the sophisticated name calling to you from now on.....promise.

And I know perfectly well why many here don't like me, but its very polite and kind of you to point that out. Hope you have a nice day.

Remember this?


http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/images-3.jpgSandy the Dandy....take your place next to UB!

road kill
02-17-2011, 01:18 PM
Oh, so its a snobby elitist name calling you engage in? I guess I'm just below that.
I'll leave the sophisticated name calling to you from now on.....promise.

And I know perfectly well why many here don't like me, but its very polite and kind of you to point that out. Hope you have a nice day.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/sbx1/th_violin.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/sbx1/?action=view&current=violin.jpg)

RK:D

dnf777
02-17-2011, 01:26 PM
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/sbx1/th_violin.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/sbx1/?action=view&current=violin.jpg)

RK:D

Well, you've taken it to a new level.

I'll back down.......YOU WIN

road kill
02-17-2011, 02:55 PM
Well, you've taken it to a new level.

I'll back down.......YOU WIN
It was an exceptional post.

RK;)

Marvin S
02-17-2011, 06:53 PM
I don't the time right now to do much research, but here are a couple of things I saw that raised a question in my mind.

New Communities, Inc., a farming cooporative that Sherrod and her husband had been a part of was awarded $13,000,000 as a part of the law suit settlement. Sherod and her husband received $300k in damages for the loss of their land and “pain and suffering.” The also got $1.5 mil. in debt forgiveness. This was in 2009, not in 2010 after the whole USDA incident.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2006058,00.html

You believe $1,800,000 is reasonable? They apparently failed & the taxpayers of this country made them whole.



When presented with Breitbart’s allegations, a USDA spokesman issued the following response:

“These accusations are nothing more than an attempt to derail an effort to provide long-overdue compensation to thousands of farmers who were discriminated against over several decades. Current census numbers on black farmers are not the proper guide for the number of claimants, and certainly no basis for allegations of fraud. Out of the 15,000 claims processed under Pigford I, the FBI determined that only 3 claims were fraudulent, and this Administration is committed to ensuring that the new claims process has integrity and provides justice to those who have suffered discrimination.



Only about 63% of those claims were approved, even using the less-stringent Track A burden of proof.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/usda-responds-to-andrew-breitbart-and-rep-steve-king-on-black-farmer-settlement/

http://nationaljournal.com/congress/vilsack-defends-usda-s-pigford-ii-settlement-20101122

Would you expect someone from the USDA to publicly pronounce that the POTUS was truly what many believe him to be? I don't believe you to be that naive.

But it's a long way from 2,500 max whuich was the intent of the original legislation, which apparently was circumvented by the bureaucracy. Is this why Espy was criminally indicted?

I don't believe we've heard the last of this - Jesse Jackson regards :).

Blackstone
02-17-2011, 09:35 PM
I’m not going to debate the merits of the lawsuit. That has been done on this forum before. My original point was there were inaccuracies and distortions in the article, as there are with most information connected with Andrew Breitbart. You challenged that by saying, “Ya gotta do better than that - NR is highly respected.” So, I gave you what you asked for. The NR may be highly respected, but they aren’t very reliable.


You believe $1,800,000 is reasonable? They apparently failed & the taxpayers of this country made them whole.

By the USDA’s admission, they lost their land and their livelihood due to unfair USDA loan practices. Certainly, people have won much larger settlements for losing far less. I don’t know how much income they lost or the value of their land. Perhaps, the settlement wasn’t high enough.


Would you expect someone from the USDA to publicly pronounce that the POTUS was truly what many believe him to be? I don't believe you to be that naive.

So, are you accusing the USDA and the FBI of being complicit in the fraud? That would be a pretty strong accusation. Any proof?


But it's a long way from 2,500 max whuich was the intent of the original legislation, which apparently was circumvented by the bureaucracy. Is this why Espy was criminally indicted?

The 2,500 was only an estimate of how many farmers might be eligible. It was not a capped maximum. See what I mean about how they distort the facts?

Espy had nothing to do with this case. If anything, he was in charge at the time some of the discriminatory loan practices were taking place. Obviously, prison is where he should be for more reasons than what he was convicted for.

I find it interesting that you are so concerned with the payout of the settlement, but not at all concerned with what caused the lawsuit to be filed in the first place. If there hadn’t been discriminatory lending practices, there would have never been a law suit, and no settlement. So, let’s put the blame where it belongs.


I believe racism to be a moot issue & only useful for accusations to gain ground that an intelligent discussion will not gain. The intelligent discussion showing the point to be indefensible.

I guess this law suit, admission of guilt by the USDA, and the settlement disproves that argument.

Marvin S
02-18-2011, 09:06 PM
I’m not going to debate the merits of the lawsuit. That has been done on this forum before. My original point was there were inaccuracies and distortions in the article, as there are with most information connected with Andrew Breitbart. You challenged that by saying, “Ya gotta do better than that - NR is highly respected.” So, I gave you what you asked for. The NR may be highly respected, but they aren’t very reliable.

Only your sources are reliable :) !!!


By the USDA’s admission, they lost their land and their livelihood due to unfair USDA loan practices. Certainly, people have won much larger settlements for losing far less. I don’t know how much income they lost or the value of their land. Perhaps, the settlement wasn’t high enough.

Anyone with supposed assets of that magnitude unable to figure out what is important, deserves the consequences!!!!!


So, are you accusing the USDA and the FBI of being complicit in the fraud? That would be a pretty strong accusation. Any proof?

No, nor am I willing to believe they weren't lying through their teeth.


The 2,500 was only an estimate of how many farmers might be eligible. It was not a capped maximum. See what I mean about how they distort the facts?

Actually I believe you to be the one being disingenuous on this subject.


Espy had nothing to do with this case. If anything, he was in charge at the time some of the discriminatory loan practices were taking place. Obviously, prison is where he should be for more reasons than what he was convicted for.

Someone who looks like you not taking care of those who look like you, what's going on?


I find it interesting that you are so concerned with the payout of the settlement, but not at all concerned with what caused the lawsuit to be filed in the first place. If there hadn’t been discriminatory lending practices, there would have never been a law suit, and no settlement. So, let’s put the blame where it belongs.

I don't believe there should have been lending in the 1st place. But as there was I never said Pigford did not have a legitimate case. But a considerable portion of farming is being a good businessman, which apparnetly many in on this scam failed to realized. Other than their ability to farm the taxpayers.


I guess this law suit, admission of guilt by the USDA, and the settlement disproves that argument.

It proves little except how careless some can be with others money & how nincompoops in charge are still that.

But the issue you were still pounding is Haley Barbour & his associations, while you are more than willing to rub elbows with people who engage in fraudulent practices, because they look like you. I believe you to be hypocritical on the subject & your postings have proven that :o.

Gerry Clinchy
02-19-2011, 06:55 AM
Sherod and her husband received $300k in damages for the loss of their land and “pain and suffering.” The also got $1.5 mil. in debt forgiveness. This was in 2009, not in 2010 after the whole USDA incident.


In spite of the lending discrimination, they had received $1.5 million in loans? from a govt loan program?

And Shirley did find another livelihood that seems to have served her well. Maybe she just wasn't cut out to be a farmer?