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View Full Version : Dem Rep: "Time to get Bloody" So Much for Civility!



huntinman
02-23-2011, 09:52 AM
Dem lawmaker on labor protests: 'Get a little bloody when necessary'
By Michael O'Brien - 02/23/11 07:57 AM ET

Sometimes it's necessary to get out on the streets and "get a little bloody," a Massachusetts Democrat said Tuesday in reference to labor battles in Wisconsin.

Rep. Michael Capuano (D-Mass.) fired up a group of union members in Boston with a speech urging them to work down in the trenches to fend off limits to workers' rights like those proposed in Wisconsin.

"I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going," Capuano said, according to the Dorchester Reporter. "Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary."

Political observers have been the lookout for potentially incendiary rhetoric in the wake of January's shooting in Tucson, Ariz., where Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D) survived an assassination attempt, six were killed, and 13 others were injured.

Political rhetoric has become especially heated in Madison, Wis., where Republican Gov. Scott Walker has proposed major labor reforms that sparked more than a week's worth of rowdy protests at the state capitol.

"We take security seriously, whether it's for me, the lieutenant governor and all 132 members of the state legislature, Democrats or Republicans alike, because there's a lot of passion down here," Walker said Tuesday on MSNBC about his safety in Wisconsin. "And particularly when we see people coming in being bussed in from other states, that's what worries us."

Capuano made his remarks before a crowd of union members in Boston, along with other members of the state's congressional delegation. Massachusetts has an influential union population that could loom large over the 2012 Senate race. Capuano is considering getting in that race to challenge Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) next fall.

“This is going to be a struggle at least for the next two years. Let’s be serious about this. They’re not going to back down and we’re not going to back down. This is a struggle for the hearts and minds of America,” Capuano told union members.


Source:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/145627-dem-lawmaker-on-labor-protests-get-a-little-bloody-when-necessary

dnf777
02-23-2011, 09:04 PM
That's a joke. I've been listening to many different news sources, and the one who talks about violence the most BY FAR is good ol' FoxNews! Its like they're hoping for it.

These protests have swelled far beyond anything the RWE ever imagined they would. They have garnered support not only from all 50 states, but from working class people from around the world. Truly amazing.

Now, through the actions of an unscrupulous reporter, we find that Gov. Scott has been lying through his teeth. This IS about busting unions, and it is a concerted effort. Something that he has denied repeatedly on record. At least the truth is out, about the Gov, and his plans. While that reporter was a weasel, he certainly outed another weasel, an enemy of the working men and women of this country.

M&K's Retrievers
02-23-2011, 09:29 PM
That's a joke. I've been listening to many different news sources, and the one who talks about violence the most BY FAR is good ol' FoxNews! Its like they're hoping for it.

These protests have swelled far beyond anything the RWE ever imagined they would. They have garnered support not only from all 50 states, but from working class people from around the world. Truly amazing.

Now, through the actions of an unscrupulous reporter, we find that Gov. Scott has been lying through his teeth. This IS about busting unions, and it is a concerted effort. Something that he has denied repeatedly on record. At least the truth is out, about the Gov, and his plans. While that reporter was a weasel, he certainly outed another weasel, an enemy of the working men and women of this country.

OK, I'll bite tho I'm gonna regret it. Where did you hear this news flash?

Marvin S
02-23-2011, 09:41 PM
Now, through the actions of an unscrupulous reporter, we find that Gov. This IS about busting unions, and it is a concerted effort. Something that he has denied repeatedly on record. At least the truth is out, about the Gov, and his plans. While that reporter was a weasel, he certainly outed another weasel, an enemy of the working men and women of this country.

How many of the procedures you follow are financed by union HC plans?

Blackstone
02-23-2011, 10:40 PM
I saw a poll on Good Morning America today that said 61% of Americans were against stripping workers of collective bargaining rights. Walker may have bitten off more than he can chew.

dnf777
02-24-2011, 07:04 AM
I saw a poll on Good Morning America today that said 61% of Americans were against stripping workers of collective bargaining rights. Walker may have bitten off more than he can chew.

Strategic error. He should have just come out and said that under republican direction, we will dismantle unionized labor and collective bargaining in this country, through a multi-state effort of republican governors. Then it would have been open for discussion, which would have been lively, no doubt.

But now, his false veil of "caring about the budget" was stripped. (quite easily, by the way) when the facts of the situation came out. That his "budget crisis" was in fact created BY HIM and his tax cuts for the rich earlier this year. His lies were propagated even here, when were being told WI teachers are "near the top of the payscale"! That was easily debunked by simple cold numbers.

The phone call, which I admit was obtained via underhanded techniques, nonetheless exposed him and the plan for what it is, and severely damaged his credibility.

dnf777
02-24-2011, 07:09 AM
How many of the procedures you follow are financed by union HC plans?

What do you mean "follow"? I don't understand the question.

Considering the source, I can only assume its another personal attack upon my profession? I apologize if I'm wrong, and will try to answer what I think you're asking.

I can tell you that NOBODY pays over 60% of what I bill. We have one company that is union, and they do have nice coverage. I think they're only one who pays over half of what we charge. The largest empoloyer in this area is the health care industry, non union. The largest payor altogether is medicare/medicade.

Blackstone
02-24-2011, 07:56 AM
Strategic error. He should have just come out and said that under republican direction, we will dismantle unionized labor and collective bargaining in this country, through a multi-state effort of republican governors. Then it would have been open for discussion, which would have been lively, no doubt.

But now, his false veil of "caring about the budget" was stripped. (quite easily, by the way) when the facts of the situation came out. That his "budget crisis" was in fact created BY HIM and his tax cuts for the rich earlier this year. His lies were propagated even here, when were being told WI teachers are "near the top of the payscale"! That was easily debunked by simple cold numbers.

The phone call, which I admit was obtained via underhanded techniques, nonetheless exposed him and the plan for what it is, and severely damaged his credibility.

So, perhaps the Dem. Senators’ ploy of delaying the vote on the bill has worked to some extent. It has given the public a chance to see what Walker is actually attempting to do in WI, and apparently, the majority do not approve. I don’t know if the Dems will be able to stop it, but at the least, it will make people keenly aware that the same thing could happen in their state.

Buzz
02-24-2011, 08:12 AM
So, perhaps the Dem. Senators’ ploy of delaying the vote on the bill has worked to some extent. It has given the public a chance to see what Walker is actually attempting to do in WI, and apparently, the majority do not approve. I don’t know if the Dems will be able to stop it, but at the least, it will make people keenly aware that the same thing could happen in their state.

The response from the other side was and still is funny. They were cowards running away from a fight? Something those big bad macho tough guy republicans would never do.

road kill
02-24-2011, 08:18 AM
I saw a poll on Good Morning America today that said 61% of Americans were against stripping workers of collective bargaining rights. Walker may have bitten off more than he can chew.

Read the fine print, that was a poll published by the AFL-CIO.:rolleyes:


RK

road kill
02-24-2011, 08:19 AM
OK, I'll bite tho I'm gonna regret it. Where did you hear this news flash?


He made it up, didn't happen that way at all.


RK

road kill
02-24-2011, 08:21 AM
Strategic error. He should have just come out and said that under republican direction, we will dismantle unionized labor and collective bargaining in this country, through a multi-state effort of republican governors. Then it would have been open for discussion, which would have been lively, no doubt.

But now, his false veil of "caring about the budget" was stripped. (quite easily, by the way) when the facts of the situation came out. That his "budget crisis" was in fact created BY HIM and his tax cuts for the rich earlier this year. His lies were propagated even here, when were being told WI teachers are "near the top of the payscale"! That was easily debunked by simple cold numbers.

The phone call, which I admit was obtained via underhanded techniques, nonetheless exposed him and the plan for what it is, and severely damaged his credibility.

Did you hear the recording of the phone call??
Would you like to?

Or did you just jump to conclusions falsely presented by a liberal blogger because it suits your "middle of the road independent" veiw??:rolleyes:



RK

road kill
02-24-2011, 08:23 AM
So, perhaps the Dem. Senators’ ploy of delaying the vote on the bill has worked to some extent. It has given the public a chance to see what Walker is actually attempting to do in WI, and apparently, the majority do not approve. I don’t know if the Dems will be able to stop it, but at the least, it will make people keenly aware that the same thing could happen in their state.

Or, perhaps it has given the union time to gin up a bunch of BS to discredit Walker??


RK

huntinman
02-24-2011, 09:43 AM
That's a joke. I've been listening to many different news sources, and the one who talks about violence the most BY FAR is good ol' FoxNews! Its like they're hoping for it.

These protests have swelled far beyond anything the RWE ever imagined they would. They have garnered support not only from all 50 states, but from working class people from around the world. Truly amazing.

Now, through the actions of an unscrupulous reporter, we find that Gov. Scott has been lying through his teeth. This IS about busting unions, and it is a concerted effort. Something that he has denied repeatedly on record. At least the truth is out, about the Gov, and his plans. While that reporter was a weasel, he certainly outed another weasel, an enemy of the working men and women of this country.

I call Bull$hite on this. Back your bs claim.

dnf777
02-24-2011, 09:57 AM
The response from the other side was and still is funny. They were cowards running away from a fight? Something those big bad macho tough guy republicans would never do.

Right. In the US Senate, where they have the filibuster to hide behind, they did so in record numbers.

Or Bush's record number of recess appointments. Okay, I'll give on that one...every president, including Obama does that one.

dnf777
02-24-2011, 09:58 AM
I call Bull$hite on this. Back your bs claim.

This thread. Case in point.

dnf777
02-24-2011, 10:01 AM
Did you hear the recording of the phone call??
Would you like to?

Or did you just jump to conclusions falsely presented by a liberal blogger because it suits your "middle of the road independent" veiw??:rolleyes:



RK

Yes I heard it. And how is it false, when it is a recording of his voice?

Or does this reporter have a voice-simulator device and made the whole thing up? Maybe it was Rich Little reading a script??

Busted. In a lie. Everyone knows the conservative movement is anti-labor and union busters. Why didn't he just come out and say it?

Hey, you're not taking advantage of the free pizza down there, are you?

huntinman
02-24-2011, 10:08 AM
Right. In the US Senate, where they have the filibuster to hide behind, they did so in record numbers. Or Bush's record number of recess appointments. Okay, I'll give on that one...every president, including Obama does that one.

Filibuster is part of the process and has been used by both sides. Runing for the hills is the exclusive domain of the Fleebaggers of they have been so eloquently tagged.

Blackstone
02-24-2011, 02:15 PM
Read the fine print, that was a poll published by the AFL-CIO.:rolleyes:


RK

Actually, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm

I know, they're lefties, libs, etc. Blah, blah, blah.

road kill
02-24-2011, 02:19 PM
Zogby Interactive: Majorities Say States Can Cut Employee Salaries & Void Collective Bargaining Agreements



UTICA, New York - Two-thirds of likely voters agree that state legislatures have the authority to cut state employee salaries and 52% agree they can void collective bargaining agreements to reduce spending.

Voiding collective bargaining agreements is also seen as preferable to continuing to pay state employees at current levels or layoffs of state workers in order to reduce spending and control deficits.

These results come from a Zogby Interactive poll conducted from Feb. 18-21, 2011.Do you agree or disagree with State legislatures having the authority to cut state employee salaries in an effort to reduce spending?
Response
All Voters
Democrats
Republicans
Independents

Agree
67%
44%
88%
71%

Disagree
31%
53%
9%
29%

Not Sure
3%
4%
4%
1%

RK

Hew
02-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Or Bush's record number of recess appointments.
Got link?

Also, I would think that an independent-minded fellow like yourself would want to note that at this point in his presidency Obama has surpassed Bush's number of recess appointments.

Blackstone
02-24-2011, 03:11 PM
Zogby Interactive: Majorities Say States Can Cut Employee Salaries & Void Collective Bargaining Agreements



UTICA, New York - Two-thirds of likely voters agree that state legislatures have the authority to cut state employee salaries and 52% agree they can void collective bargaining agreements to reduce spending.

Voiding collective bargaining agreements is also seen as preferable to continuing to pay state employees at current levels or layoffs of state workers in order to reduce spending and control deficits.

These results come from a Zogby Interactive poll conducted from Feb. 18-21, 2011.Do you agree or disagree with State legislatures having the authority to cut state employee salaries in an effort to reduce spending?
Response
All Voters
Democrats
Republicans
Independents

Agree
67%
44%
88%
71%

Disagree
31%
53%
9%
29%

Not Sure
3%
4%
4%
1%

RK

Zogby polls are not scientific and questions have been raised about their reliability. I'm going to stay with the USA Today/Gallup Poll. They have a proven track record.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200711280004

This is not about just reducing spending. It's about breaking the union.

Marvin S
02-24-2011, 04:06 PM
This is not about just reducing spending. It's about breaking the union.

So, that's bad? Our utility bill over 10 years has risen 287.5%. The COE's are a city monopoly! No infrastructure improvements so most has gone to? Wage increases to city employees! When you talk to them about that - Oh, they could do better in the private sector!!!!! BS, Scott Walker has a great :idea: & I wish him success.

M&K's Retrievers
02-24-2011, 07:14 PM
What do you mean "follow"? I don't understand the question.

Considering the source, I can only assume its another personal attack upon my profession? I apologize if I'm wrong, and will try to answer what I think you're asking.

I can tell you that NOBODY pays over 60% of what I bill. We have one company that is union, and they do have nice coverage. I think they're only one who pays over half of what we charge. The largest empoloyer in this area is the health care industry, non union. The largest payor altogether is medicare/medicade.

That tells me you charge in excess of the "reasonable and customary fee" for your area.

dnf777
02-24-2011, 07:16 PM
That tells me you charge in excess of the "reasonable and customary fee" for your area.

I won't argue with you. People feel entitled to free medical care, so no matter what we charge, it will fit your comment.

huntinman
02-25-2011, 09:57 AM
Zogby polls are not scientific and questions have been raised about their reliability. I'm going to stay with the USA Today/Gallup Poll. They have a proven track record.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200711280004

This is not about just reducing spending. It's about breaking the union.

By whom? Moveon, HuffPo & Blackstone?

road kill
02-25-2011, 10:01 AM
Zogby polls are not scientific and questions have been raised about their reliability. I'm going to stay with the USA Today/Gallup Poll. They have a proven track record.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200711280004

This is not about just reducing spending. It's about breaking the union.

Rasmussen??

Rasmussen Poll: American Voters Support Wisconsin GOP Gov. Walker Over Unions by a 48% to 38% Margin

Americans siding with Governor Walker over unions in Wisconsin …

According to a recent Rasmussen poll, likely voters are siding with Governor Scott Walker over the Unions in Wisconsin by a 48% to 38% margin. Only 38% sided with the unions, which is a far cry from the image that the MSM is trying to show protesting in Madison, WI. Obviously Democrats are going to support the unions and did so in this survey with 68% of the vote, while Republicans, while 68% of Republicans sided with the governor. More importantly and telling, 58% of individuals not affiliated with either parity sided with Governor Walker. The winds of change are occuring in Wisconsin.

A sizable number of voters are following new Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s showdown with unionized public employees in his state, and nearly half side with the governor.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters agree more with the Republican governor in his dispute with union workers. Thirty-eight percent (38%) agree more with the unionized public employees, while 14% are undecided. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

As stated by Hot Air, the unions appear to be losing the national battle for the hearts and minds of the American people. We the People seem to be growing weary of union entitlements while private citizens must make sacrifices every day.


The bigger questions is how will what is going on in Wisconsin and the people’s reaction to unions affect other cash strapped states like Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania and others? There is an even greater questions posed by Red State, did Barack Obama just make a mistake in Wisconsin that he will never be able to recover from? Because once again, Obama is on the wrong side of the people and the private sector is sick and tired of the public sector and political class.

The Silvered, Fork-tongued One skates through electoral mayhem with the grace of Johnny Weir, but this time, he falls and fails badly. It will come back to haunt him.

I refer to President Obama siding with the public sector unions across the country while the Governors, both Republican and Democrat, try to balance state budgets and ask the unions to make less-aggressive concessions than private sector employees have been making for years.

All the talk of “tough choices” and shared sacrifice sounds incredibly empty and hollow.
_________________________________________________

RK

M&K's Retrievers
02-25-2011, 10:57 AM
I won't argue with you. People feel entitled to free medical care, so no matter what we charge, it will fit your comment.

So you admit that you charge more for your services than others in the same profession and area for like procedures. Are you that much better than the average?

Just wondering regards,

caryalsobrook
02-25-2011, 03:03 PM
So you admit that you charge more for your services than others in the same profession and area for like procedures. Are you that much better than the average?

Just wondering regards,

M&K I seldom agree with dnf777 on anything and nothing on government policy on healthcare but let me explain a little about healthcare fees. First, "usual and customary" is no longer the standard for services provided. The American Dental Assn. sued Aetna over the computation of the amount that they claimed was "usual and customary". Aetna claimed such information was priviledged and would not provide it resulting in the lawsuit. The suit was filed for the very reason that conclusions were drawn such as yours as to fees charged that were completely false and reflected on the doctor. Aetna never disclosed their method of computing "usual and customary" but chose instead to go to a schedule amount for each procedure that they would pay. Since then, I have neref seen an explanation of benefits that disallowed a portion of charges claiming that the charge was above the usual and customary. Ever since the time of the Carter Presidency, I have known that their computation of usual and customary was flawed. Metropolitan Ins. sent explanation of benefits stating that my fees were above the usual and customary. Strangely the usual and customary amount stated was the fee that I had charged the year before. In every case this held true during that time of high inflation. I knew then that there was no such thing as "usual and customary".

Dentists being for the most part quite conservative and independant practice solo or in a relatively small group, 5 being a quite large group. Physicians on the contrary, especially specialists are in large groups for the most part and sadly are in groups with cross specialities. Most doctors in these groups really have little to say a to the fee they charge but relagete this to the manager of the group. I suspect most of them like it this way. I would not be surprised if dnf777 had little to do with the fees that were charged for the services he rendered. Don't know for a fact but would not be surprised.

Having broken my foot a year ago, I was referred to an orthopedic surgeon. The bill wal almost $1000.00. The reimbursement was a little over $200.00. There are reasons that fees and reimbursement have come to this and those reasons in my opinion are due mainly due to the government.

Dentists for the most part have told the Gov. not only no but HELL NO. I wish physicians had done the same and maybe we would not be in quite the mess we are in.

If you have any questions that I can answer, I'll be glad to.

dnf777
02-25-2011, 05:17 PM
So you admit that you charge more for your services than others in the same profession and area for like procedures. Are you that much better than the average?

Just wondering regards,

My rectal cancer recurrence rates, wound infection rates, post op DVT rates, and ostomy rates are all below the national average. (below being GOOD!) So yes, I am better than average.

I don't charge anything. My employer does. And its so damn complicated, I have no idea what they charge. All I know is at our monthly financial meetings, they show total billables, total reimbursements, and we usually hit around 28 cents collected for every dollar billed.

sandyg
02-25-2011, 07:57 PM
My rectal cancer recurrence rates, wound infection rates, post op DVT rates, and ostomy rates are all below the national average. (below being GOOD!) So yes, I am better than average.

I don't charge anything. My employer does. And its so damn complicated, I have no idea what they charge. All I know is at our monthly financial meetings, they show total billables, total reimbursements, and we usually hit around 28 cents collected for every dollar billed.

What percentage of these are directly relative to your care? It seems like the patient has a lot to do with these; cause and effect is not 100% due to your care. They may be below the national average but what about the local average? You're still in business, so you inflate your rates to cover the deadbeats. Why don't you charge the correct amounts and go after the deadbeats? Why should I pay for four procedures when I've only had one? If I had my vet do the same procedure on my dog it would be 10% of what you charge. Granted, facilities and malpractice account for a lot of the difference but 10 times?

dnf777
02-25-2011, 08:22 PM
What percentage of these are directly relative to your care? It seems like the patient has a lot to do with these; cause and effect is not 100% due to your care. They may be below the national average but what about the local average? You're still in business, so you inflate your rates to cover the deadbeats. Why don't you charge the correct amounts and go after the deadbeats? Why should I pay for four procedures when I've only had one? If I had my vet do the same procedure on my dog it would be 10% of what you charge. Granted, facilities and malpractice account for a lot of the difference but 10 times?

PM sent. Just don't want to clutter the thread with off topic