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BrianW
02-26-2011, 12:48 AM
NRA-ILA GRASSROOTS ALERT
Vol. 18, No. 8 02/25/11


Last week, H.R. 822, was introduced in the U.S. House by Representatives Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Schuler (D-N.C.). The measure would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms. A state's laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its borders. The bill also applies to Washington , D.C. , Puerto Rico and U.S. territories.

H.R. 822 would not create a federal licensing system. Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize drivers' licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995.
Please be sure to contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 225-3121 and urge him or her to cosponsor and support H.R. 822.

It's about time !! :cool:

Franco
02-26-2011, 09:01 AM
This legislation is long over due!

I've had my conceal carry permit for a long time and hope I never have to draw on a perpetraitor. But, knowing I have that ability is comforting.

Funny you should post this as I am planning at being at the pistol range for 10am today;-)

With our temps in the 80's, geese heading north, I need something to shoot even if its just punching holes in a piece of paper.

BrianW
02-26-2011, 09:19 AM
This legislation is long over due!

I've had my conceal carry permit for a long time and hope I never have to draw on a perpetraitor. But, knowing I have that ability is comforting.

Funny you should post this as I am planning at being at the pistol range for 10am today;-)

With our temps in the 80's, geese heading north, I need something to shoot even if its just punching holes in a piece of paper.

Thomas Jefferson: "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 (Foley, Ed., 1967).

Enjoy your exercise, Franco! :D

Franco
02-26-2011, 09:25 AM
Thomas Jefferson: "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 (Foley, Ed., 1967).

Enjoy your exercise, Franco! :D

The folks at Barney's Law Enforcement Supply laugh when I walk in cause I bring an arsenal with me. Most shoot one maybe two pistols. I bring five! I start with the bigger calibers and finish with my Walther P22;-)

Buzz
02-26-2011, 09:30 AM
In general I support the idea. I was surprised last time I drove to Texas I checked for states along my route for reciprocity. There were red states who didn't have reciprocal agreements with South Dakota. So, I left my 9 mm at home. Both ways I traveled and stopped for gas and food and to air myself in the wee hours of the morning, and I would have felt a lot better if I was packing. On the other hand I wonder why states rights guys would be wanting to take the decision away from the states. And I hope it doesn't eventually give some politician the idea that I should have to jump through more hoops to renew my permit when the time comes.

M&K's Retrievers
02-26-2011, 09:35 AM
In general I support the idea. I was surprised last time I drove to Texas I checked for states along my route for reciprocity. There were red states who didn't have reciprocal agreements with South Dakota. So, I left my 9 mm at home. Both ways I traveled and stopped for gas and food and to air myself in the wee hours of the morning, and I would have felt a lot better if I was packing. On the other hand I wonder why states rights guys would be wanting to take the decision away from the states. And I hope it doesn't eventually give some politician the idea that I should have to jump through more hoops to renew my permit when the time comes.

You would have been OK in Texas an Oklahoma but the last time I checked Kansas was rough. I don't know about the Cornhuskers.

dixidawg
02-26-2011, 09:35 AM
I think this is not a states rights issue just as freedom of speech is not a states rights issue.

If you want to understand how states CAN and DO make you jump thriough hoops, try reading and understanding the Mass laws,,,,,

and then once you do jump through ALL the hoops, the decision still lies at the discretion of the Chief of Police in your town.

Talk about arbitrary and capricious!!!

Franco
02-26-2011, 10:00 AM
The reason the bill was introduced was because of this case.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2010/dec/21/gov-christie-commutes-sentence-legal-gun-owner/

BirdHntr
02-26-2011, 11:20 AM
[quote=BrianW;758329]NRA-ILA GRASSROOTS ALERT
Vol. 18, No. 8 02/25/11


Last week, H.R. 822, was introduced in the U.S. House by Representatives Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Schuler (D-N.C.). The measure would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms. A state's laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its borders. The bill also applies to Washington , D.C. , Puerto Rico and U.S. territories.

H.R. 822 would not create a federal licensing system. Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize drivers' licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995.
Please be sure to contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 225-3121 and urge him or her to cosponsor and support H.R. 822.


Besides the reciprocity issue, they need to standardize the rules.

Carl

BrianW
02-26-2011, 04:59 PM
In general I support the idea. ...
On the other hand I wonder why states rights guys would be wanting to take the decision away from the states.

Well, I'm glad that we DO agree on SOME things in principle. ;-)

"On the other hand..." the legislation is not saying that SD can't decide on its own issuance standards for its residents or even decide not to have concealed carry at all.
But that if they do have CWP's, they must honor all other state's CWP's.

Would you think that SoDak should have the right to decide whether my ID driver's license is valid in your state or not?
Or that your SD license somehow shouldn't be valid here in the Gem State as well?

But if Idaho were to somehow decide that no one can drive in ID :rolleyes: and not issue licenses, then even your SD license wouldn't let you drive here.

dnf777
02-26-2011, 05:10 PM
Well, I'm glad that we DO agree on SOME things in principle. ;-)

"On the other hand..." the legislation is not saying that SD can't decide on its own issuance standards for its residents or even decide not to have concealed carry at all.
But that if they do have CWP's, they must honor all other state's CWP's.

Would you think that SoDak should have the right to decide whether my ID driver's license is valid in your state or not?
Or that your SD license somehow shouldn't be valid here in the Gem State as well?

But if Idaho were to somehow decide that no one can drive in ID :rolleyes: and not issue licenses, then even your SD license wouldn't let you drive here.

There used to be issues with drivers' licenses, and I believe it was the interstate commerce clause that prohibited states from denying driving privileges to out of state drivers. I'm not sure you could make the same argument for CWPs.

Saving state's rights for another day, I'd like to see not only CWPs standardized across state lines, but firearms laws in general. When I was in Philly, I had to run to Ft.Dix for reserve duties. I took my Colt 1911 with me to shoot at the range. Fortunately the range officer felt pity on me, and quietly told me to stash my illegal semi-auto pistol and make my way back to the car and get the hell outta NJ before I get in real trouble. Just by driving across a bridge, I convert from a law abiding citizen, to a weapons-violation criminal.

BrianW
02-26-2011, 05:16 PM
A state's laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its borders.
Besides the reciprocity issue, they need to standardize the rules.


True. But let's get the basic principle established, the "who", and get that past Obama, and then we can get the "how, when & where" details ironed out.
Too many details will give the GCA's more instances to oppose the whole concept.

Buzz
02-26-2011, 05:25 PM
Besides the reciprocity issue, they need to standardize the rules.

Carl




True. But let's get the basic principle established, the "who", and get that past Obama, and then we can get the "how, when & where" details ironed out.
Too many details will give the GCA's more instances to oppose the whole concept.


This is what I was getting at when I made my comment about jumping through hoops. I guess a lot of the time I make comments here without relating my thought process. My concern is that once you force reciprocity on everyone, next thing you know someone's going to get the bright idea that you need to also standardize the permitting process nationally, and that's what I don't like so much. What works here in SD might not be workable in NY or CA, and vice versa. I don't want more hoops here...

dixidawg
02-26-2011, 08:20 PM
NY jury clears Fla. man who had gun in glove box


http://online.wsj.com/article/AP4383f05f4e1a4b23bee7edeb40afa7a5.html

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/fla_driver_cleared_of_manhattan_EQj7QtfKSKPDCnlkX3 fu8M

Cody Covey
02-26-2011, 09:22 PM
I think this is not a states rights issue just as freedom of speech is not a states rights issue.

If you want to understand how states CAN and DO make you jump thriough hoops, try reading and understanding the Mass laws,,,,,

and then once you do jump through ALL the hoops, the decision still lies at the discretion of the Chief of Police in your town.

Talk about arbitrary and capricious!!!
This will go to the supreme court if past because the findings from the court was that its unconstitutional to deny the right to own a firearm. It has nothing to do with the right to carry one. THAT'S why its a states rights issue.

dnf777
02-26-2011, 09:26 PM
This will go to the supreme court if past because the findings from the court was that its unconstitutional to deny the right to own a firearm. It has nothing to do with the right to carry one. THAT'S why its a states rights issue.

I believe those two lines are covered by "the right to keep and bear arms..."

Too bad others don't see it that way.

dixidawg
02-26-2011, 09:57 PM
Exactly.

Is it also a state's right that tells me where and how I can exercise free speech?

If the 2nd amendment ONLY applies to possession in one's home, does that mean a homeless person has no 2nd amendment rights?

BrianW
02-27-2011, 10:49 AM
Fwiw, if this bill becomes law, it could go to the SCOTUS, but I think it would be more under the Article IV Sect 1 Full Faith and Credit provison rather than a 2nd Amd challenge, making it a 'state's rights" issue.
"Reciprocity", imo, doesn't address the issue of a state's ability to control the means/method of the bearing of arms. It is simply saying that if a state has a concealed carry policy, then all the other state's permit holders can also carry concealed in that state pursuant to it's laws.

I.e I have an Idaho issued CWP but only Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida,
Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Wyoming honor it.

So even if I am willing to abide by their conditions for carrying a concealed pistol, I can't legally protect myself "next door" while traveling or doing business in Spokane WA unless I spend additional monies , go through another background check & get a Utah or WA carry license. That's ridiculous in my view.
A state should either honor all states "carry" licenses/permits reciprocally or none at all. They shouldn't be able to pick and choose which one(s) of their fellow states they "recognize" and that's what this bill is trying to address.

dixidawg
02-27-2011, 11:34 AM
Agree. Case in point. Mass does not grant reciprocity to any other state, nor does any other state grant reciprocity to a Mass LTC holder.

Goose
02-27-2011, 12:40 PM
I can think of a few countries where the citizens would be better off with lots of guns. How about Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan, Algeria, Sudan, Iraq, Palestine, Bahrain, Libya, Yemen, Mauritania, Gabon and Morocco. Not to mention Ireland, Italy, Britain, Austria, France, Portugal, Greece and North Korea. too. We should load half a dozen C-5's with glocks and drop them over each of these countries so the 'folk' can deal with the tyranny and dictatorial rule.

Just like the left votes...guns should bought early and often. It's the only thing separating us from the above mentioned third-world countries and banana republics. I'd rather throw lead than throw rocks.

It should be mandatory that every law abiding swinging D in this country own at least a dozen guns before it's too late because we live in Cuba now.

BonMallari
02-27-2011, 12:58 PM
"

A state should either honor all states "carry" licenses/permits reciprocally or none at all. They shouldn't be able to pick and choose which one(s) of their fellow states they "recognize" and that's what this bill is trying to address.

I agree with you to a certain extent , BUT, not all states have the same stipulations on CCW...and some states have some real bizarre laws concerning gun purchase by out of staters...i.e. in the state of Colorado anyone can buy a handgun EXCEPT a Calif resident...Calif residents used to regularly cross the state line to buy guns here in NV but they have since stiffened those provisions...also some states make up register EACH individual CCW gun where some states blanket all guns you own as legal CCW...until you get more uniform laws, its better left to the individual states

dixidawg
02-27-2011, 01:08 PM
Bon,

You sure about that?

I thought that FEDERAL law prohibits non residents from directly buying a handgun in any other state.

The gun has to first go to an FFL in the buyers state first, and then that FFL needs to do the final transfer to the buyer. It is that final FFL that insures the transfer tis in accordance with that state's laws.

Uncle Bill
02-27-2011, 01:17 PM
Bon,

You sure about that?

I thought that FEDERAL law prohibits non residents from directly buying a handgun in any other state.

The gun has to first go to an FFL in the buyers state first, and then that FFL needs to do the final transfer to the buyer. It is that final FFL that insures the transfer tis in accordance with that state's laws.


That's true in this neck of the woods. I purchased a Colt Python some years back at a Nebraska gun show. That FFL owner had it shipped to my FFL dealer in Rapid City for pickup. Not a large hoop to jump through in my view. Certainly the state you reside in should have the authority in such matters.

I hope this new law passes, but if it doesn't, I'll continue to be a 'criminal' while driving across country with my Sodak CWP, and my Taurus Judge under the seat of my car...my private WMD.:rolleyes:

UB

BonMallari
02-27-2011, 01:19 PM
Bon,

You sure about that?

I thought that FEDERAL law prohibits non residents from directly buying a handgun in any other state.

The gun has to first go to an FFL in the buyers state first, and then that FFL needs to do the final transfer to the buyer. It is that final FFL that insures the transfer tis in accordance with that state's laws.

I was visiting a brother in Durango Colorado, and they happened to have a gun store just down the road, so I stopped in and noticed some good prices on a Sig Sauer, so I asked if an OOS'er could buy a long gun or a handgun and the response was as long as I wasnt a Calif resident for a handgun but they could buy a long gun

dnf777
02-27-2011, 01:26 PM
I can think of a few countries where the citizens would be better off with lots of guns. How about Egypt,

There are lots of privately owned guns in Egypt. At least that's what my co-worker from Egypt says.

Bon: SigSauer has travelling reps going around the country holding sales blitzes. Our store says they were told this March, the rep would be bringing a display of all their new toys, and would be knocking off around 200 apeice. Just picked up a Sig Mosquito .22. VERY SWEET!! Can't wait for the rep and the "real" sigs!

BonMallari
02-27-2011, 02:14 PM
There are lots of privately owned guns in Egypt. At least that's what my co-worker from Egypt says.

Bon: SigSauer has travelling reps going around the country holding sales blitzes. Our store says they were told this March, the rep would be bringing a display of all their new toys, and would be knocking off around 200 apeice. Just picked up a Sig Mosquito .22. VERY SWEET!! Can't wait for the rep and the "real" sigs!

I am looking at the Sig PM250 with two frames,interchangeable barrel and trigger assembly and can be done in less than 5 minutes with a little practice, one frame for full size and one for concealed carry

BrianW
02-27-2011, 02:21 PM
... BUT, not all states have the same stipulations on CCW...
Yes I know. WA doesn't reciprocal ID because "While Idaho’s laws may be similar to Washington’s, Idaho has a provision to issue licenses to persons under 21 years of age. Therefore, Washington cannot, by law, enter into reciprocity with Idaho. It is also unclear whether or not Idaho requires mental health background checks by the issuing authority that would satisfy Washington’s requirements.
But (and some may argue apples/oranges) a man & woman could get married in a state that doesn't meet WA's legal reqmts and they would still be recognized as married if they moved to WA.

and some states have some real bizarre laws concerning gun purchase by out of staters.....This bill would not alter OOS purchases. Also speaking of "bizarre" I can go to WA and purchase all the .357 Mag ammunition (which is the "dangerous" part, imo) for my Smith 640 I want, but I can't carry the gun for it with my present permit. Go figure! :rolleyes:
also some states make up register EACH individual CCW gun where some states blanket all guns you own as legal CCW...until you get more uniform laws, its better left to the individual statesThe problem I see with that, is then we'd never get anywhere on the issue because you'd never get all 50 states, districts commonwealths etc to agree on a standard. Again for a comparison though, a legally owned/possessed car in ID is still a legally owned/possessed car in WA, SD, NV etc.
Why shouldn't it be the same with a firearm whose right to keep/bear is constitutionally protected?