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View Full Version : SHOCKER! GM Sells Just 281 Volts In Feb, Nissan 67 Leafs



huntinman
03-04-2011, 07:50 AM
GM sells just 281 Chevy Volts in February, Nissan only moves 67 Leafs
by Sebastian Blanco (RSS feed) on Mar 1st 2011 at 7:47PM


Peruse Chevrolet's February sales release, and you'll notice one number that's blatantly missing: the number of Chevy Volts sold. The number Ė a very modest 281 Ė is available in the company's detailed data (PDF), but it certainly isn't something that GM wants to highlight, apparently. Keeping the number quiet is a bit understandable, since it's lower than the 321 that Chevy sold in January.

Nissan doesn't have anything to brag about here, either (and it didn't avoiding any mention of the Leaf sales in its press release). Why? Well, back in January, the company sold 87 Leafs. In February? Just 67. Where does that leave us? Well, here's the big scorecard for all sales of these vehicles thus far:

ēVolt: 928
ēLeaf: 173
Ouch. The big questions, of course, revolve around one word: "Why?" Is ramping up production and deliveries still a problem? Is demand weak? Are unscrupulous dealers to blame? When will sales start to climb? And what are these numbers doing to plug-in vehicle work at other automakers? We don't know all the answers, but for more on February auto sales, click here.

[Sources: General Motors, Nissan]

Ken Bora
03-04-2011, 08:21 AM
well,
golf cart sales are always low in winter,
aren't they? :rolleyes:





.

road kill
03-04-2011, 08:23 AM
Maybe it's because NO ONE WANTS THEM!!!!!!!

Just sayin'.......


RK

Franco
03-04-2011, 08:37 AM
How many Legislatures that voted for the bailout of the UAW are driving a Volt?

My guess would be; 0

subroc
03-04-2011, 08:52 AM
electric cars are not ready for prime time. less than usable technology being forced on an unsuspecting public for political and social reasons.

how sad.

Duck Blind
03-04-2011, 10:07 AM
wonder if those numbers will go up following a couple more months of sky rocketing gas prices?

Goose
03-04-2011, 10:16 AM
That's 16 Chevy Volts for each of the 57 states. Impressive. They should rename it the Chevy WAFWAT. Who can afford to buy a $45,000 sardine that won't even make it down the driveway before you have to recharge!!! Maybe next year when gas is $7 a gallon (thanks Barack) they'll sell a few more.

How old are the Obama girls? Can they drive yet? I'll buy one when Malaria and Sharia buy one.

huntinman
03-04-2011, 11:37 AM
That's 16 Chevy Volts for each of the 57 states. Impressive. They should rename it the Chevy WAFWAT. Who can afford to buy a $45,000 sardine that won't even make it down the driveway before you have to recharge!!! Maybe next year when gas is $7 a gallon (thanks Barack) they'll sell a few more.

How old are the Obama girls? Can they drive yet? I'll buy one when Malaria and Sharia buy one.

That's funny!

TxHillHunter
03-04-2011, 12:01 PM
electric cars are not ready for prime time. less than usable technology being forced on an unsuspecting public for political and social reasons.

how sad.

Think you're right.....wondering how much the battery-dependent vehicles will drop in resale value when people start to realize how the batteries don't last and are really expensive to replace.

BonMallari
03-04-2011, 12:31 PM
these type of cars do not fit Americas driving style right now, who is going to drive them, only someone who has to commute daily in a bigger city or from rural to urban...but can they tow a boat,have a dog topper...America still loves their SUV's and pickup trucks, this isnt China and we dont all wear the Mao jackets and all work at the same factory

Goose
03-04-2011, 12:33 PM
Is Government Motors and the Chevy Volt going to be official sponsors of the Day of Rage in Riyadh next Friday? That might be a way to 'encourage' sales. Just go over there with a few of Barakeh's street organizing Chicago union fellows to help encourage the rage and take it to a much higher level. You know...throw rocks and snipe protestors so the rage will spread rapidly throughout the Kingdom. We'll get oil to $200 in no time and everybody will be lining up to buy the $45,000 Volt since gas will be at $15. Problem solved.

We live in Cuba now.

dnf777
03-04-2011, 12:45 PM
these type of cars do not fit Americas driving style right now, who is going to drive them, only someone who has to commute daily in a bigger city or from rural to urban...but can they tow a boat,have a dog topper...America still loves their SUV's and pickup trucks, this isnt China and we dont all wear the Mao jackets and all work at the same factory

Bingo!

But maybe not in our driving lifetimes, but someday not too far off, there WILL be consumer grade PUs and SUVs with this technology.

This is a paradigm shift.....and those don't occur overnite.

BrianW
03-04-2011, 01:22 PM
Well it certainly couldn't be because of this:
You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know ó Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Barack Obamadescribing one of the direct effects of his proposed energy policy on consumers - skyrocketingt costs for electricity. The statement came in January of (2008) in an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle

And I'm sure it isn't because of reports saying that there won't be a sufficient amount of electricity during the summer to recharge large numbers of PEV's ie "charging patterns wil deend on consumer behaviors"

LokiMeister
03-04-2011, 02:56 PM
GM sells just 281 Chevy Volts in February, Nissan only moves 67 Leafs
by Sebastian Blanco (RSS feed) on Mar 1st 2011 at 7:47PM


Peruse Chevrolet's February sales release, and you'll notice one number that's blatantly missing: the number of Chevy Volts sold. The number Ė a very modest 281 Ė is available in the company's detailed data (PDF), but it certainly isn't something that GM wants to highlight, apparently. Keeping the number quiet is a bit understandable, since it's lower than the 321 that Chevy sold in January.

Nissan doesn't have anything to brag about here, either (and it didn't avoiding any mention of the Leaf sales in its press release). Why? Well, back in January, the company sold 87 Leafs. In February? Just 67. Where does that leave us? Well, here's the big scorecard for all sales of these vehicles thus far:

ēVolt: 928
ēLeaf: 173
Ouch. The big questions, of course, revolve around one word: "Why?" Is ramping up production and deliveries still a problem? Is demand weak? Are unscrupulous dealers to blame? When will sales start to climb? And what are these numbers doing to plug-in vehicle work at other automakers? We don't know all the answers, but for more on February auto sales, click here.

[Sources: General Motors, Nissan]

Hmm, $40,000 for a run of the mill $20,000 car? That might be your answer.

Blackstone
03-04-2011, 05:28 PM
Before you get too gleeful over your perceived failure of the Volt so far, there are some other factors that have to be taken into consideration. First, you mentioned that February Volt sales were less than January sales. However, February sales volumes for most models are traditionally lower than other months because there are fewer selling days in February. Second, Volt is only currently being sold in 10 states. Production ramp up has been slow by design, and even most dealers in those 10 states have only gotten allocation of a few vehicles. Apparently, there must be some demand for the vehicle because some dealers are asking, and getting, sticker price for them. Third, most of Volt’s initial volume was scheduled to go to government, municipalities, and electric utilities. Those units were pre-sold, but haven’t been produced and delivered to the customer yet. I don’t know how many Volt’s have been produced so far, but from what I understand, all scheduled production for the 2011 model year has been presold, and new orders have been cut off.

I don’t know if Volt is going to be a success or not. However, it would seem to make sense to wait until it goes into full production and nation wide distribution for the 2012 model year before coming to any conclusions.

huntinman
03-04-2011, 05:39 PM
Before you get too gleeful over your perceived failure of the Volt so far, there are some other factors that have to be taken into consideration. First, you mentioned that February Volt sales were less than January sales. However, February sales volumes for most models are traditionally lower than other months because there are fewer selling days in February. Second, Volt is only currently being sold in 10 states. Production ramp up has been slow by design, and even most dealers in those 10 states have only gotten allocation of a few vehicles. Apparently, there must be some demand for the vehicle because some dealers are asking, and getting, sticker price for them. Third, most of Voltís initial volume was scheduled to go to government, municipalities, and electric utilities. Those units were pre-sold, but havenít been produced and delivered to the customer yet. I donít know how many Voltís have been produced so far, but from what I understand, all scheduled production for the 2011 model year has been presold, and new orders have been cut off.

I donít know if Volt is going to be a success or not. However, it would seem to make sense to wait until it goes into full production and nation wide distribution for the 2012 model year before coming to any conclusions.

Buyers who had no choice...didn't want them but got them anyway. So the sales numbers are artificially inflated, is that what you are saying Blackstone?

Blackstone
03-04-2011, 06:06 PM
Buyers who had no choice...didn't want them but got them anyway. So the sales numbers are artificially inflated, is that what you are saying Blackstone?

I guess I don't understand your point. Buyers always have a choice whether or not to buy. Who do you think is forcing them to buy a Volt? They wanted electric vehicles for their fleet, and have been standing in line to get one or more since the vehicle was announced. I have electric utilities where I am that are mad because they won't be able to get one until the 2012 model year.

TxHillHunter
03-04-2011, 07:59 PM
I guess I don't understand your point. Buyers always have a choice whether or not to buy. .

EXCEPT when it comes to health care....oh I forgot, you don't have to buy....but you will get an extra "present" at tax time.

BrianW
03-04-2011, 08:31 PM
Blackstone, what is being said is that for the most part, private parties, the people, are not buyers of the Volts. Mostly the purchases are from governement entities with our tax dollars. Thus, buyers without a choice/say in the matter.

And if weren't for the gov purchases (who have a vested interest in GM's investment) the Volts numbers would be even lower, hence the "artificial" inflation of the sales numbers.

dnf777
03-04-2011, 08:55 PM
Gee. How fast did the horse-less carriage catch on?
Did everyone immediately sell their horses and buy a god-awful expensive smoking, belching "automobile" when they first hit the market?


I think not.

Big changes take time and adjustment. The volt may not get any more acceptance than Mr. Ford's first model run. But its a first step in an inevitable change.

Franco
03-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Most state and municiple governments mandate the purchase of domestic vehicles.

I don't know if there is a Fed incentive to buy GM or the Volt. I wouldn't surprised it there was.

Compared to other economy cars available, not the wise choice for state or municiple dollars.

Blackstone
03-04-2011, 10:49 PM
Blackstone, what is being said is that for the most part, private parties, the people, are not buyers of the Volts. Mostly the purchases are from governement entities with our tax dollars. Thus, buyers without a choice/say in the matter.


Not true. All of the scheduled production are “sold” orders, much of it for retail customers. If the dealers are getting sticker for the vehicles, they are getting it from retail customer, so there must be demand. Have you ever heard of a dealer getting sticker for a vehicle no one wants? Government, municipalities & utilities never pay what retail customers do, so they aren’t the ones paying sticker. That only leaves retail customers.

Everything government entities buy, from police cars to computers to paperclips is bought with your tax dollars. You don’t have a say in any of it, so what makes this different?


And if weren't for the gov purchases (who have a vested interest in GM's investment) the Volts numbers would be even lower, hence the "artificial" inflation of the sales numbers.

First, only the Fed. Gov. has an investment in GM. A lot of these sales are going to state and local municipalities that have no investment in GM. Second, sales are only counted when the vehicles are delivered to the end customer. A large portion of the government and municipal orders have not been produced and delivered yet, so there is no artificial inflation of sales. GM also sales a lot of pickups, vans & other cars to government and municipal customers, so you’re saying all GM’s sales numbers for almost every model are artificially inflated too? What about Ford? They sell a lot of vehicles to the Fed. Gov. and municipalities. Are those artificial inflated sales? They sell about 90% of the police cars in this country with Crown Vic. Are those artificial inflated sales? The truth is, a sale is a sale. It doesn’t matter who you sell to, as long as you sell.

Blackstone
03-04-2011, 10:59 PM
Most state and municiple governments mandate the purchase of domestic vehicles.

I don't know if there is a Fed incentive to buy GM or the Volt. I wouldn't surprised it there was.

Compared to other economy cars available, not the wise choice for state or municiple dollars.

Thatís not true. There are some state and local governments that mandate purchasing domestic vehicles when possible, but most donít. Most states do have mandates to purchase a certain amount of alternative fuel vehicles. However, they donít limit it to domestic vehicles. A lot of them purchased Prius or Honda hybrids to meet that requirement.

There is no Fed. incentive to buy GM products. That would be illegal. However, there is a Fed. tax credit of $7,500 for retail and commercial buyers. State and local governments donít qualify for the tax credit because they are tax exempt.

Franco
03-05-2011, 06:16 AM
That’s not true. There are some state and local governments that mandate purchasing domestic vehicles when possible, but most don’t. Most states do have mandates to purchase a certain amount of alternative fuel vehicles. However, they don’t limit it to domestic vehicles. A lot of them purchased Prius or Honda hybrids to meet that requirement.

There is no Fed. incentive to buy GM products. That would be illegal. However, there is a Fed. tax credit of $7,500 for retail and commercial buyers. State and local governments don’t qualify for the tax credit because they are tax exempt.

It may not be true in the unionized states but it is true in most southern states.

All the bigger cities in La. including New Olreans have a domestic only dictate. In fact, a very high percentage of the oil companies also have a domestic only dictate for fleet and company cars. You won't find many Titans or Tundras in the oil flied fleet and our Mayor drives a Tarus SHO.

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 12:26 PM
It may not be true in the unionized states but it is true in most southern states.

All the bigger cities in La. including New Olreans have a domestic only dictate. In fact, a very high percentage of the oil companies also have a domestic only dictate for fleet and company cars. You won't find many Titans or Tundras in the oil flied fleet and our Mayor drives a Tarus SHO.

They don't have any domestic mandate here in KS or MO. However, I'm a big proponent of buying American made products of any kind when possible, so it doesn't bother me at all.

huntinman
03-05-2011, 12:40 PM
I guess I don't understand your point. Buyers always have a choice whether or not to buy. Who do you think is forcing them to buy a Volt? They wanted electric vehicles for their fleet, and have been standing in line to get one or more since the vehicle was announced. I have electric utilities where I am that are mad because they won't be able to get one until the 2012 model year.

Military agency dictated from Washington that they WILL buy electric/hybrid for their local fleet whether they want it or not. The local base did not want them, but was told order them anyway.

Doc E
03-05-2011, 01:02 PM
How much "dirty" energy does it take to make the electricity needed to recharge the batteries ?



.

huntinman
03-05-2011, 01:11 PM
How much "dirty" energy does it take to make the electricity needed to recharge the batteries ?



.

More than Blackstone will ever admit...

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Military agency dictated from Washington that they WILL buy electric/hybrid for their local fleet whether they want it or not. The local base did not want them, but was told order them anyway.

The Fed has had those types of mandates for years now. The Fed is the buyer, not the military agency, so again, they made the choice. Buyers always have a choice.

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 02:46 PM
How much "dirty" energy does it take to make the electricity needed to recharge the batteries ?



.

On average, it will take less "dirty" energy to recharge Volt batteries for a year than it takes to run central air in the average home, run a refrigerator/freezer, or an electric water heater.

subroc
03-05-2011, 02:55 PM
On average, it will take less "dirty" energy to recharge Volt batteries for a year than it takes to run central air in the average home, run a refrigerator/freezer, or an electric water heater.

citation????

sandyg
03-05-2011, 03:03 PM
On average, it will take less "dirty" energy to recharge Volt batteries for a year than it takes to run central air in the average home, run a refrigerator/freezer, or an electric water heater.

The difference being there's no alternative to an air conditioner, refrigerator/freezer, or an electric water heater.

How much energy to make a battery pack when the car already has an engine?

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 03:07 PM
More than Blackstone will ever admit...

You continue to act as if Iím trying to get people buy a Volt. Iím not. You continue to try to find something wrong just so you can bash the car. The reality is, itís not perfect, but itís not that bad either. Of course, thereís dirty energy involved in charging the batteries, but thereís dirty energy involved in producing gas for a car with an internal combustion engine. So, what is it you think Iím not willing to admit?

huntinman
03-05-2011, 03:08 PM
The Fed has had those types of mandates for years now. The Fed is the buyer, not the military agency, so again, they made the choice. Buyers always have a choice.

I don't know who made the "Choice", but it was a poor one, as those cars are just sitting there. The end users won't drive them...

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 03:21 PM
The difference being there's no alternative to an air conditioner, refrigerator/freezer, or an electric water heater.

Of course there are alternatives. We haven't always had central air. Open a window. Central air is just a convinence. We had ice boxes before refrigerators, and heated water before we had electric water heaters. They are simply more efficient ways of doing thing, but they still require the use of dirty energy to operate.


How much energy to make a battery pack when the car already has an engine?

I donít know, but I would wager it is far less energy than what is already being used to produce all the industrial use batteries, car batteries, computer batteries, etc. we currently consume. The Volt has a combustion engine, but that engine does not propel the car, it is simply a generator.

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 03:25 PM
citation????

I'm not sure I understand your question.

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 03:31 PM
Think you're right.....wondering how much the battery-dependent vehicles will drop in resale value when people start to realize how the batteries don't last and are really expensive to replace.

The batteries are warranted for 8 years/100k miles. By then, if they need a new battery, advancements in technology will probably have made them cheaper to replace.

subroc
03-05-2011, 03:41 PM
I'm not sure I understand your question.
You provided a claim of charging criteria and a comparison to some known appliances. I was asking that you cite your source.

sandyg
03-05-2011, 05:32 PM
Of course there are alternatives. We haven't always had central air. Open a window. Central air is just a convinence. We had ice boxes before refrigerators, and heated water before we had electric water heaters. They are simply more efficient ways of doing thing, but they still require the use of dirty energy to operate.



I donít know, but I would wager it is far less energy than what is already being used to produce all the industrial use batteries, car batteries, computer batteries, etc. we currently consume. The Volt has a combustion engine, but that engine does not propel the car, it is simply a generator.

And the alternative to a car is a horse. What's your point?

I'm talking about the electric car battery pack, not batteries in general. If it has a combustion engine, why not connect it to a drivetrain? Oh, yeah, then it would be a Chevy Cruze.

Why do you keep defending the Volt? You're not going to change our minds so why not drop it?

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 06:15 PM
And the alternative to a car is a horse. What's your point?

I'm talking about the electric car battery pack, not batteries in general. If it has a combustion engine, why not connect it to a drivetrain? Oh, yeah, then it would be a Chevy Cruze.

I thought that was fairly obvious. It would defeat the purpose of it being an electric car.


Why do you keep defending the Volt? You're not going to change our minds so why not drop it?

Iím not really defending the Volt. I just think itís ridiculous to bash something you know almost nothing about. Quite a few of the statements made on here against the Volt and electric vehicles in general has been incorrect. I just thought you might want correct information. I guess I was wrong.

By the way, you should feel free not to continue to comment on it yourself. Obviously, you arenít changing my mind either, so why donít you drop it?

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 07:54 PM
You provided a claim of charging criteria and a comparison to some known appliances. I was asking that you cite your source.

The information was from a presentation done on the Volt. I do not know what research was done to gather it.

sandyg
03-05-2011, 08:05 PM
I thought that was fairly obvious. It would defeat the purpose of it being an electric car.



Iím not really defending the Volt. I just think itís ridiculous to bash something you know almost nothing about. Quite a few of the statements made on here against the Volt and electric vehicles in general has been incorrect. I just thought you might want correct information. I guess I was wrong.

By the way, you should feel free not to continue to comment on it yourself. Obviously, you arenít changing my mind either, so why donít you drop it?

YOU STARTED IT!!!! I'll drop it if you will.

huntinman
03-05-2011, 08:11 PM
YOU STARTED IT!!!! I'll drop it if you will.

Come on, you know it ain't over till Blackstone gets the last word in:rolleyes:

sandyg
03-05-2011, 08:16 PM
Come on, you know it ain't over till Blackstone gets the last word in:rolleyes:

Yeah, just like DNF.

Blackstone
03-06-2011, 09:36 AM
Yeah, just like DNF.

Or you! :rolleyes:

sandyg
03-06-2011, 10:13 AM
Or you! :rolleyes:

Tit for tat with you having the last word.

PRICELESS!!!!