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road kill
03-04-2011, 01:16 PM
What a shame.
It's OK though, I mean it was a good cause, right??
__________________________________________________ _________________________

Madison - State officials said Thursday that damage to the marble inside and out the State Capitol would cost an estimated $7.5 million.

Cari Anne Renlund, chief legal counsel for the state Department of Administration, said in Dane County court that estimates of damage to marble includes $6 million to repair damaged marble inside the Capitol, $1 million for damage outside and $500,000 for costs to supervise the damage.

Much of the damage apparently has come from tape used to put up signs and placards at the Capitol.

It was not immediately clear how the estimates were made, though the state is apparently relying on opinions by historical architects, one of whom works for the U.S. Park Service.

One concern is the residue from tape that the state says is causing damage to stone and other surfaces inside the Capitol.

Michele Curran, an architectural historian for the National Parks Service who coordinates national historic landmarks in Wisconsin, said she didn’t know how the state had arrived at its damage figures.

She said certain kinds of tape can leave lasting residues on surfaces such as marble or wood if they are improperly removed. But she said only a professional cleaning service experienced in such work and familiar with the situation in the state Capitol could estimate any possible costs.

“They need a quote from a company that specializes in cleaning historic surfaces,” Curran said.

Many of the papers and banners posted in the state Capitol were put up using painter’s tape, which is employed to minimize effects on walls.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117340918.html
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

RK

Roger Perry
03-04-2011, 01:42 PM
What a shame.
It's OK though, I mean it was a good cause, right??
__________________________________________________ _________________________

Madison - State officials said Thursday that damage to the marble inside and out the State Capitol would cost an estimated $7.5 million.

Cari Anne Renlund, chief legal counsel for the state Department of Administration, said in Dane County court that estimates of damage to marble includes $6 million to repair damaged marble inside the Capitol, $1 million for damage outside and $500,000 for costs to supervise the damage.

Much of the damage apparently has come from tape used to put up signs and placards at the Capitol.

It was not immediately clear how the estimates were made, though the state is apparently relying on opinions by historical architects, one of whom works for the U.S. Park Service.

One concern is the residue from tape that the state says is causing damage to stone and other surfaces inside the Capitol.

Michele Curran, an architectural historian for the National Parks Service who coordinates national historic landmarks in Wisconsin, said she didnít know how the state had arrived at its damage figures.

She said certain kinds of tape can leave lasting residues on surfaces such as marble or wood if they are improperly removed. But she said only a professional cleaning service experienced in such work and familiar with the situation in the state Capitol could estimate any possible costs.

ďThey need a quote from a company that specializes in cleaning historic surfaces,Ē Curran said.

Many of the papers and banners posted in the state Capitol were put up using painterís tape, which is employed to minimize effects on walls.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117340918.html
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

RK

I will supervise the damage for $250,000 and save Wisconsin $250,000:grin: And probably could get union workers to to the clean the walls for half the price.

dnf777
03-04-2011, 01:42 PM
I hope the "professional cleaning service" is a union shop! :D:D


Come now, do we really NEED extravagant marble floors and pillars to conduct the people's business. Sounds like lavish wasting of tax payers' money to me. Lets cut Johnny's school and sports budget so the governor can work in marble-lined halls with no (Heaven forbid!) TAPE RESIDUE on the walls!!!!

Ugh! My dog just tracked in some dirt on the carpet. I must hire a professional historic architect and cleaning service to remedy this travesty upon my home!!! Any of you taxpayers from WI want to pitch in and help me out too? I know just how the gov feels. So dirty.

road kill
03-04-2011, 01:53 PM
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/sbx1/dumb.jpg

I just really don't understand how you can condone and dismiss this total lack of respect for the PEOPLES Capital building.

Wait, knowing you 2.....yes I can understand it.
:rolleyes:

RK

Golddogs
03-04-2011, 01:57 PM
I hope the "professional cleaning service" is a union shop! :D:D


Come now, do we really NEED extravagant marble floors and pillars to conduct the people's business. Sounds like lavish wasting of tax payers' money to me. Lets cut Johnny's school and sports budget so the governor can work in marble-lined halls with no (Heaven forbid!) TAPE RESIDUE on the walls!!!!

Ugh! My dog just tracked in some dirt on the carpet. I must hire a professional historic architect and cleaning service to remedy this travesty upon my home!!! Any of you taxpayers from WI want to pitch in and help me out too? I know just how the gov feels. So dirty.
None of those obsevations were made by the Gov and if you have ever had to deal with damage to very old structures, you would not be as snarky. Marble especially old marble is not a forgiving material. The older it ges, the more care it requires. One of the reasons it is not used much anymore in high traffic areas. But the Wisconsin State house was built in a time when all big government buildings, as well as most commercial buildings used quite a bit of it, as well as granite, kasota stone and even sandstone.

I bet the unions and all of the rally supportors will pitch in to help restore the damage done.

paul young
03-04-2011, 01:57 PM
i call B.S............

heck, i'll quit my job in Ct., do the job in 2 weeks and only charge $1 million.......-Paul

kb27_99
03-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Paul, if you get the contract i'll give you 20 hrs a day hard cold labor for the 2 weeks for just 50K.

Roger Perry
03-04-2011, 02:13 PM
i call B.S............

heck, i'll quit my job in Ct., do the job in 2 weeks and only charge $1 million.......-Paul

Damn, I just got under bid by Paul.:razz: Paul, are you using illegals to wash the walls????

huntinman
03-04-2011, 02:19 PM
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/sbx1/dumb.jpg

I just really don't understand how you can condone and dismiss this total lack of respect for the PEOPLES Capital building.

Wait, knowing you 2.....yes I can understand it.
:rolleyes:

RK

Is that Roger and Little Rog? How Cute! Two Peas in a pod!

dnf777
03-04-2011, 04:31 PM
None of those obsevations were made by the Gov and if you have ever had to deal with damage to very old structures, you would not be as snarky. Marble especially old marble is not a forgiving material. The older it ges, the more care it requires. One of the reasons it is not used much anymore in high traffic areas. But the Wisconsin State house was built in a time when all big government buildings, as well as most commercial buildings used quite a bit of it, as well as granite, kasota stone and even sandstone.

I bet the unions and all of the rally supportors will pitch in to help restore the damage done.

Yeah, that's why most of us have formica or Corcoran, and not marble in our kitchens. Maybe the governor could take a lesson from those of us who are responsible with our spending!

And yes, when it was built, we had money. Well, we're not in Kansas anymore, time to show a little fiscal responsibility and clean it up and move on. I'm not shedding tears because of tape residue!

Oh, and just to show that I can cut and paste too, here's a cozy little pic or huntingman and RK!
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/Unknown.jpg

road kill
03-04-2011, 04:36 PM
Treating other peoples belongings with respect should not be dependent on politics, but moreover on upbringing, or lack thereof.

Wisconsin's State Capital building belongs to all of us.
It should be respected accordingly.

Anything else, or the acceptance of this poor behavior is disgraceful.


RK

huntinman
03-04-2011, 04:54 PM
Yeah, that's why most of us have formica or Corcoran, and not marble in our kitchens. Maybe the governor could take a lesson from those of us who are responsible with our spending!

And yes, when it was built, we had money. Well, we're not in Kansas anymore, time to show a little fiscal responsibility and clean it up and move on. I'm not shedding tears because of tape residue!

Oh, and just to show that I can cut and paste too, here's a cozy little pic or huntingman and RK!
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/Unknown.jpg

Little Rog, that would be Corian. And when the WI Capitol building was built I would imagine that the Gov was not born yet and had no say in the building materials used:rolleyes: I guess you and the other libs would propose he tear down that extravagant marble and put in a portable building with linoleum? Something that meets your liberal standards of fiscal restraint?

PS...The pic is what we will all look like when Obama is done with us. tax and spend regards...

caryalsobrook
03-04-2011, 05:06 PM
Anyone who destroys property other than their own and thinks it is funny is in my book trash. Anyone who thinks it is funny when another destroys property that doesn't belong to them is in my book garbage.

I try never to callany particular person derogatory names but IF THE SHOE FITS!

BrianW
03-04-2011, 05:23 PM
Yeah, that's why most of us have formica or Corcoran, and not marble in our kitchens. Maybe the governor could take a lesson from those of us who are responsible with our spending!

And yes, when it was built, we had money. Well, we're not in Kansas anymore, time to show a little fiscal responsibility and clean it up and move on. I'm not shedding tears because of tape residue!
Yeah many of us do, it's lot easier to clean up when guests act like slobs and intentionally trash my place.

While he's at it, why doesn't Walker teach a little lesson in personal responsibility as well, and take the additional monies needed for clean up/repairs out of the budgets of the those who camped/demonstrated? Or if that's too cruel because he's already cut funding, maybe the organizing groups ought to do some community service like road cleanup for restitution? Maybe then the brats could take a lesson from those who are responsible with our property/possessions.

Blackstone
03-04-2011, 05:57 PM
What a shame.
It's OK though, I mean it was a good cause, right??
__________________________________________________ _________________________

Madison - State officials said Thursday that damage to the marble inside and out the State Capitol would cost an estimated $7.5 million.

Cari Anne Renlund, chief legal counsel for the state Department of Administration, said in Dane County court that estimates of damage to marble includes $6 million to repair damaged marble inside the Capitol, $1 million for damage outside and $500,000 for costs to supervise the damage.

Much of the damage apparently has come from tape used to put up signs and placards at the Capitol.

It was not immediately clear how the estimates were made, though the state is apparently relying on opinions by historical architects, one of whom works for the U.S. Park Service.

One concern is the residue from tape that the state says is causing damage to stone and other surfaces inside the Capitol.

Michele Curran, an architectural historian for the National Parks Service who coordinates national historic landmarks in Wisconsin, said she didnít know how the state had arrived at its damage figures.

She said certain kinds of tape can leave lasting residues on surfaces such as marble or wood if they are improperly removed. But she said only a professional cleaning service experienced in such work and familiar with the situation in the state Capitol could estimate any possible costs.

ďThey need a quote from a company that specializes in cleaning historic surfaces,Ē Curran said.

Many of the papers and banners posted in the state Capitol were put up using painterís tape, which is employed to minimize effects on walls.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117340918.html
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

RK

How do you do $7.5 mil. worth of damage to marble by tape? What did they remove the tape with, a hammer? What a joke! No wonder WI is in financial trouble if they are willing to pay that much to have tape residue removed. The residue hasnít been there very long, so it couldnít have had time to seep into the marble. All it would take is some mineral spirits to remove the residue and some stone soap to wash it down, and the job would be done. Iím willing to come there and clean the marble, and only charge half that. Maybe I should contact Walker. Heís looking for ways to reduce expenses. Iím his man!

Roger Perry
03-04-2011, 06:18 PM
How do you do $7.5 mil. worth of damage to marble by tape? What did they remove the tape with, a hammer? What a joke! No wonder WI is in financial trouble if they are willing to pay that much to have tape residue removed. The residue hasnít been there very long, so it couldnít have had time to seep into the marble. All it would take is some mineral spirits to remove the residue and some stone soap to wash it down, and the job would be done. Iím willing to come there and clean the marble, and only charge half that. Maybe I should contact Walker. Heís looking for ways to reduce expenses. Iím his man!

We have both been underbid by Paul.


"i call B.S............

heck, i'll quit my job in Ct., do the job in 2 weeks and only charge $1 million......."-Paul

caryalsobrook
03-04-2011, 06:53 PM
How do you do $7.5 mil. worth of damage to marble by tape? What did they remove the tape with, a hammer? What a joke! No wonder WI is in financial trouble if they are willing to pay that much to have tape residue removed. The residue hasnít been there very long, so it couldnít have had time to seep into the marble. All it would take is some mineral spirits to remove the residue and some stone soap to wash it down, and the job would be done. Iím willing to come there and clean the marble, and only charge half that. Maybe I should contact Walker. Heís looking for ways to reduce expenses. Iím his man!

Do you really think the importance is the amount of damage that was caused or the fact that some trash out of pure stupidity damaged proper that didn't belong to them and didn't care?
A friend of mine has a term for that OPM that is other people's money.

TxHillHunter
03-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Do you really think the importance is the amount of damage that was caused or the fact that some trash out of pure stupidity damaged proper that didn't belong to them and didn't care?
A friend of mine has a term for that OPM that is other people's money.

Not sure if you know who you're arguing with....but these guys are with Michael Moore and believe that all the "cash" in this country is a "national resource"....in other words...they LOVE spending other people's money.

caryalsobrook
03-04-2011, 08:19 PM
Not sure if you know who you're arguing with....but these guys are with Michael Moore and believe that all the "cash" in this country is a "national resource"....in other words...they LOVE spending other people's money.

As my friend said OPM:)

dnf777
03-04-2011, 08:28 PM
We have both been underbid by Paul.


"i call B.S............

heck, i'll quit my job in Ct., do the job in 2 weeks and only charge $1 million......."-Paul

BS is right. If after all that, the worst thing they can find is tape residue......

Hell, if that is 7.5 million, I'd hate to tally up how much my kids have done with markers and glue in our old house!! Maybe a billion?

LMAO at this RWE BS!!

Eric Johnson
03-04-2011, 09:08 PM
BS is right. If after all that, the worst thing they can find is tape residue......

Hell, if that is 7.5 million, I'd hate to tally up how much my kids have done with markers and glue in our old house!! Maybe a billion?

LMAO at this RWE BS!!

You're commenting on a newspaper report prepared by someone who likely majored in English rather than architecture or engineering. The reports probably don't detail by half the actual damage done. I wouldn't be surprised if there were even some structural damage considering the overload the building took for an extended period. Certainly it will have to be checked for that. Broken marble slabs are tough to replace when the only way to make the replacement match is to replace it all.

I don't know the details either but I'd hardly make light of the considered opinion of a professional.

Eric

BrianW
03-04-2011, 09:19 PM
I've never been to Madison, but just from the TV coverage I can see that the whole place isn't made out of marble. Signs, banners, etc were hung from the wood railings , what appeared to be wainscoting in places with varnishes and other old coatings, that I'm sure could qualify as antiques.
Much of the damage was from tape & many of the signs used painters tape, but not all. Also seems to be an interesting contrast to the general lack of damage that has been reported after Tea Party events at various locations

So what about the rest of the damage, from anything from push pins and scotch/duct tape to signs being banged on the floors and into walls? Spilled drinks and food stomped into the floors/carpets. Let's not even get into "bodily substances". You ever watch any of those shows where it costs over $5000 just to restore a stupid jukebox? Any of you ever had to refurbish a rental house after a angry tenant is evicted? Stuff ads up, fast! Now multiply that by thousands of pissed off "renters".

What I think would be funny is to actually have one of y'all bid that Capitol job at a fixed cost with your low ball estimates.
Then listen to the cries of bs when the $1 m bid climbs into overruns.:rolleyes:

JDogger
03-04-2011, 11:06 PM
, here's a cozy little pic or huntingman and RK!
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/dnf777/Unknown.jpgVery rude picture, Dave. I just threw up in my mouth a little. I could make further comments, but then I would just get hate mail from Marvin and UB. :p JD

Blackstone
03-04-2011, 11:07 PM
We have both been underbid by Paul.


"i call B.S............

heck, i'll quit my job in Ct., do the job in 2 weeks and only charge $1 million......."-Paul

Yeah, but I think Paul is an undocumented worker trying to steal jobs from Americans by being willing to work so cheap! :p:p:p

road kill
03-05-2011, 07:48 AM
Some of the posts on this thread about the willful destruction and disrespect of other peoples property speak Volumns about the authors.


stan b

Roger Perry
03-05-2011, 11:05 AM
Some of the posts on this thread about the willful destruction and disrespect of other peoples property speak Volumns about the authors.


stan b

RK, don't take the comments so seriously. It is highly unlikely that 7.5 million dollars worth of damage occured unless someone took a sledge hammer to the marble walls.

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 12:19 PM
Do you really think the importance is the amount of damage that was caused or the fact that some trash out of pure stupidity damaged proper that didn't belong to them and didn't care?
A friend of mine has a term for that OPM that is other people's money.

I made no comment on whether or not I thought it was important that someone(s) may have damaged property. I'm not sure how you arrived at that meaning. My point was how ridiculous and overblown the story was. If you can do $7.5 million damage with tape residue, maybe we should be dropping rolls of tape on Iraq and saving money on bombs.

huntinman
03-05-2011, 12:35 PM
All the libs are minimizing the damage reports as if it is nothing. If it was a tea party rally and there was $5 worth of damage you guys would be the first ones screaming bloody murder about the lack of respect. But you know when the tea party rallies, they don't leave garbage behind, they pick it up. See the photos below comparing Obamas inaugarul to the tea party rally on the National Mall.

dnf777
03-05-2011, 01:02 PM
Some of the posts on this thread about the willful destruction and disrespect of other peoples property speak Volumns about the authors.


stan b

First of all, I don't condone vandalism or violence in any form. Second, I doubt the 7.5 million estimate, more likely just RWE propaganda, just like the palm-tree lined video of "violent protesters" we saw. Third, while not diminishing any actual damage that was done, I'm still more concerned about the families that will have their standard of living lowered despite a willingness to work for their piece of the American dream, and the kids who will be denied the same opportunity that all of us on POTUS were given, and made good with. Perhaps the governor shouldn't have launched an anti-family, anti-american campaign, and this "damage" wouldn't have occurred either?

dnf777
03-05-2011, 01:04 PM
All the libs are minimizing the damage reports as if it is nothing. If it was a tea party rally and there was $5 worth of damage you guys would be the first ones screaming bloody murder about the lack of respect. But you know when the tea party rallies, they don't leave garbage behind, they pick it up. See the photos below comparing Obamas inaugarul to the tea party rally on the National Mall.

The "libs" just had one of their congresswomen SHOT IN THE HEAD. Maybe that's why a little tape residue isn't such a big deal to them?

huntinman
03-05-2011, 01:09 PM
The "libs" just had one of their congresswomen SHOT IN THE HEAD. Maybe that's why a little tape residue isn't such a big deal to them?

Different state. Different time... All you need now is to throw out the race card and you will have your bases covered. What a freaking joke.

Eric Johnson
03-05-2011, 01:40 PM
The "libs" just had one of their congresswomen SHOT IN THE HEAD. Maybe that's why a little tape residue isn't such a big deal to them?

Are you suggesting that a conservative had something to do with this? If not, why drag in the red herring. If so, then make your case.

Eric

Uncle Bill
03-05-2011, 01:58 PM
The "libs" just had one of their congresswomen SHOT IN THE HEAD. Maybe that's why a little tape residue isn't such a big deal to them?


ONLY A COMPLETE FOOL HAS THOUGHTS LIKE THIS. YOU ARE INDEED LIVING PROOF THAT EINSTEIN WAS CORRECT IN HIS COMPARISON OF GENIUS AND IDIOCY...GENIUS HAS LIMITS. PHONEYS LIKE YOU HAVE NO BOUNDRIES!

UB

road kill
03-05-2011, 02:01 PM
OUCH!!!!!

The back of someone's head must be smarting from getting slapped so many times!!:shock:


RK

BonMallari
03-05-2011, 02:09 PM
The "libs" just had one of their congresswomen SHOT IN THE HEAD. Maybe that's why a little tape residue isn't such a big deal to them?


you know DNF, I learned my lesson about going to the well one too many times when someone pointed out my Palin bashing...but you have a tendency to use the Giffords case and the Larry Craig reference with reckless abandon, especially when it has NO bearing to the subject at hand...;)

huntinman
03-05-2011, 02:13 PM
you know DNF, I learned my lesson about going to the well one too many times when someone pointed out my Palin bashing...but you have a tendency to use the Giffords case and the Larry Craig reference with reckless abandon, especially when it has NO bearing to the subject at hand...;)

But dammit Bon... he's a doctor...

BonMallari
03-05-2011, 02:31 PM
But dammit Bon... he's a doctor...


as my darling SIL MaryKent always reminds my brother Clint : " ...just because you're a doctor, doesnt mean you know everything..." which is usually followed by a deafening silence...love that gal:D:D

Clay Rogers
03-05-2011, 02:38 PM
The "libs" just had one of their congresswomen SHOT IN THE HEAD. Maybe that's why a little tape residue isn't such a big deal to them?


Actually Dave, the "libs" didn't have a congresswoman shot in the head, "we", the American people had one of OUR congresswomen shot. You being all middle of the road, should know that better than anyone.

caryalsobrook
03-05-2011, 02:46 PM
I made no comment on whether or not I thought it was important that someone(s) may have damaged property. I'm not sure how you arrived at that meaning. My point was how ridiculous and overblown the story was. If you can do $7.5 million damage with tape residue, maybe we should be dropping rolls of tape on Iraq and saving money on bombs.

If someone destroys PROPERTY THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM just for the hell of it then in my book THEY ARE TRASH. I am not ever going to quibble about the amount, EVER. Let me give you another example. It matters not that someone stole a penny, a piece of candy, or 100 billion dallars. HE(SHE) IS STILL A THIEF. I will never laugh about the amount no matter what it is. IT DID NOT BELONG TO THEM. That is my point.

charly_t
03-05-2011, 02:48 PM
as my darling SIL MaryKent always reminds my brother Clint : " ...just because you're a doctor, doesnt mean you know everything..." which is usually followed by a deafening silence...love that gal:D:D

The trouble with a lot of Doctors thinking that they know everything is that,
I guess, they think they have no more room to store info. Anyway they don't make much effort at times. "If it ain't in that text book it ain't correct". I think the ex BIL finally learned that other people sometimes knew things he didn't know. God Bless him he is sick now.

caryalsobrook
03-05-2011, 02:54 PM
The trouble with a lot of Doctors thinking that they know everything is that,
I guess, they think they have no more room to store info. Anyway they don't make much effort at times. "If it ain't in that text book it ain't correct". I think the ex BIL finally learned that other people sometimes knew things he didn't know. God Bless him he is sick now.

Your post really mde me smile:). Being a dentist, I used to laugh at patients(I don't mean this in a derogatory or arrogant sense), when they would ask a question and wait so attentively for my words of wisdom. My response many times was "I wish we were half as smart as we think we are and one tenth as smart as you think we are:) Make sense?:)

sandyg
03-05-2011, 02:59 PM
I'm just sitting back laughing! Will someone please take the shovel from DNF's hands?

huntinman
03-05-2011, 03:04 PM
as my darling SIL MaryKent always reminds my brother Clint : " ...just because you're a doctor, doesnt mean you know everything..." which is usually followed by a deafening silence...love that gal:D:D

Bon, that was just my poor attemt to use an old Star Trek line!

charly_t
03-05-2011, 03:08 PM
Your post really mde me smile:). Being a dentist, I used to laugh at patients(I don't mean this in a derogatory or arrogant sense), when they would ask a question and wait so attentively for my words of wisdom. My response many times was "I wish we were half as smart as we think we are and one tenth as smart as you think we are:) Make sense?:)

Good post. Good way to say it :-)

BonMallari
03-05-2011, 03:16 PM
Bon, that was just my poor attemt to use an old Star Trek line!

My favorite Dr McCoy line : " damnit, I don't need a doctor...I am a Doctor" :p:p

Roger Perry
03-05-2011, 03:55 PM
All the libs are minimizing the damage reports as if it is nothing. If it was a tea party rally and there was $5 worth of damage you guys would be the first ones screaming bloody murder about the lack of respect. But you know when the tea party rallies, they don't leave garbage behind, they pick it up. See the photos below comparing Obamas inaugarul to the tea party rally on the National Mall.


Say, isn't that the Washington Monument in the background????? I didn't know they moved it to Madison, Wisconsin.:shock:

huntinman
03-05-2011, 03:57 PM
Say, isn't that the Washington Monument in the background????? I didn't know they moved it to Madison, Wisconsin.:shock:

I identified the photos as the National Mall dipstick...comparing libs and their trash to tea party and no trash...

Marvin S
03-05-2011, 04:12 PM
Interesting how some are willing to dismiss boorish behavior if it is one with their worldview. Maybe that's why many landowners make their proerty off limits :o.

For one of the Spring Trials on this circuit, we camp in a campgound under DOI jurisdiction. It makes one feel good about some in this sport when the caretaker says he loves to see us come, we always leave the place cleaner than when we arrive :).

starjack
03-05-2011, 05:05 PM
First of all, I don't condone vandalism or violence in any form. Second, I doubt the 7.5 million estimate, more likely just RWE propaganda, just like the palm-tree lined video of "violent protesters" we saw. Third, while not diminishing any actual damage that was done, I'm still more concerned about the families that will have their standard of living lowered despite a willingness to work for their piece of the American dream, and the kids who will be denied the same opportunity that all of us on POTUS were given, and made good with. Perhaps the governor shouldn't have launched an anti-family, anti-american campaign, and this "damage" wouldn't have occurred either?

What are you talking about let the taxer pay for everything while a few can have the American Dream. Hes doing so our kids wont be burden with 3.6 billion dollar short fall .BTW way your comment on the congress woman was about as classless as i ever seen!!!!! Know wonder they call you little Roger

caryalsobrook
03-05-2011, 05:29 PM
Interesting how some are willing to dismiss boorish behavior if it is one with their worldview. Maybe that's why many landowners make their proerty off limits :o.

For one of the Spring Trials on this circuit, we camp in a campgound under DOI jurisdiction. It makes one feel good about some in this sport when the caretaker says he loves to see us come, we always leave the place cleaner than when we arrive :).

Unfortunately farmers today really have no choice but to post their land. I want my land cared for as I care for it and above all DON'T MAKE MY NEIGHBORS MAD.
The spring HRC 2010 Grand wass held close to my farm and a local pro trainer asked if some of his friends could train there during the Grand. Scott Greer looked after everything since I don't live there and everything went well.

It amazes me that someone would shoot someone over words but would not respect others' property. If you ever come to West Tennessee you can camp there anytime. I have electric service (no water for now) and a homemade septic tank. You are welcome:)

Blackstone
03-05-2011, 08:03 PM
If someone destroys PROPERTY THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM just for the hell of it then in my book THEY ARE TRASH. I am not ever going to quibble about the amount, EVER. Let me give you another example. It matters not that someone stole a penny, a piece of candy, or 100 billion dallars. HE(SHE) IS STILL A THIEF. I will never laugh about the amount no matter what it is. IT DID NOT BELONG TO THEM. That is my point.

I understand your point, but mine is, I don't believe the story. I don't think tape damaged the marble. I grew up in a house with marble table tops and a marble fireplace hearth. As kids, we did a lot more to them than put tape on them, and we didn't damage them. In fact, my mother still has some of the tables in her basement now. The story just doesn't make sense. That's my point.

sandyg
03-05-2011, 08:14 PM
$200 million for a trip to India, $7.5 million for marble cleanup. What this shows is that people in the media jump on something with no sniff test or investigation whatsoever. And then the right and left debate it to defend their side as if it is the gospel truth. C'mon people, these reporters are deficient in math skills because the union teacher who taught them was an English major!

M&K's Retrievers
03-05-2011, 10:59 PM
I'm just sitting back laughing! Will someone please take the shovel from DNF's hands?

The last word. Wait for it. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

dnf777
03-05-2011, 11:09 PM
I love this place!
Predictable as a two-headed penny!

Just saw Nicola Benedetti with the Pittsburgh symphony and drinks afterwards, and wifey was the hottest babe on the town!.....doesn't get any better!

Have a good weekend all.

M&K's Retrievers
03-05-2011, 11:26 PM
The last word. Wait for it. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Took 10 minutes.

Roger Perry
03-06-2011, 06:12 AM
$200 million for a trip to India, $7.5 million for marble cleanup. What this shows is that people in the media jump on something with no sniff test or investigation whatsoever. And then the right and left debate it to defend their side as if it is the gospel truth. C'mon people, these reporters are deficient in math skills because the union teacher who taught them was an English major!

Who is defending the left here. All I see is the righties complaining and the others here not taking the figures seriously. Does anyone believe scotch tape can cause $7.5 million in damage.:rolleyes:

road kill
03-06-2011, 07:52 AM
Who is defending the left here. All I see is the righties complaining and the others here not taking the figures seriously. Does anyone believe scotch tape can cause $7.5 million in damage.:rolleyes:

Accusing "scotch tape" of causing the damage is like accussing forks for causing Oprah to be fat!!

The PROTESTORS caused the damage Roger.:cool:



RK

Roger Perry
03-06-2011, 08:23 AM
Accusing "scotch tape" of causing the damage is like accussing forks for causing Oprah to be fat!!

The PROTESTORS caused the damage Roger.:cool:



RK

RK, this was taken from the article you posted with the OP:

Madison - State officials said Thursday that damage to the marble inside and out the State Capitol would cost an estimated $7.5 million.

Cari Anne Renlund, chief legal counsel for the state Department of Administration, said in Dane County court that estimates of damage to marble includes $6 million to repair damaged marble inside the Capitol, $1 million for damage outside and $500,000 for costs to supervise the damage.

Much of the damage apparently has come from tape used to put up signs and placards at the Capitol.

road kill
03-06-2011, 08:25 AM
RK, this was taken from the article you posted with the OP:

Madison - State officials said Thursday that damage to the marble inside and out the State Capitol would cost an estimated $7.5 million.

Cari Anne Renlund, chief legal counsel for the state Department of Administration, said in Dane County court that estimates of damage to marble includes $6 million to repair damaged marble inside the Capitol, $1 million for damage outside and $500,000 for costs to supervise the damage.

Much of the damage apparently has come from tape used to put up signs and placards at the Capitol.



Roger.....someone put the tape on the walls.
The tape didn't climb up the wall by itself.


Get it???

Of course not.:rolleyes:

RK

Roger Perry
03-06-2011, 08:31 AM
Roger.....someone put the tape on the walls.
The tape didn't climb up the wall by itself.


Get it???

Of course not.:rolleyes:

RK

RK, as Blackstone said, a little mineral spirits would take the residue off of the walls. I will gladly do the work myself for half the price but Paul underbid me.:rolleyes:

sandyg
03-06-2011, 08:50 AM
Here, lefties, are you happy now? It turns out that the $7.5 million estimate was if union labor was used. Non-union labor will be $347,000. I'm more concerned with the 41 rounds of .22LR that was found on the capitol grounds. I thought all lefties were against guns?

This is from a leftist rag (http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_87fdc162-46ce-11e0-bb6e-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story) so I wouldn't read too much into it.

State officials say $7 million cleanup of state Capitol was overstated

DAN SIMMONS | dsimmons@madison.com | 608-252-6136 | Posted: Saturday, March 5, 2011 6:30 am

State officials admitted Friday that they may have overstated cleanup costs related to the recent two-week state Capitol camp-out by as much as $7 million as union leaders and protesters harshly criticized the estimate quoted by a state lawyer at a court hearing Thursday.
"It's an insult," said Kevin Gibbons, co-president of Teaching Assistants' Association, the union that organized daily cleanups of the Capitol while maintaining a 24-hour protest village for two weeks. "I'm sure anyone who made that estimate didn't witness the lengths we went to to make sure we didn't hurt the Capitol."
Department of Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch admitted Friday the $7.5 million quoted by DOA lawyer Cari Ann Renlund was "at the high end of the range" and that actual cleanup costs could be as low as $347,500.
Huebsch defended the discrepancy at an afternoon press conference, saying the estimate represented the "best information available at the time" based on a memo by state architect Daniel Stephans.
But in the memo, released to the media Friday, Stephans acknowledged his estimate "was nothing more than an educated guess."
Gibbons said union leaders enforced a rigid discipline on the hundreds of protesters who made the Capitol their home for two weeks, consulting with Capitol Police on policies that would tread as gently as possible on the century-old statehouse.
Early on, union leaders supplied hundreds of rolls of blue painters tape to protesters whose Capitol camp-out began Feb. 15 and ended Thursday. Police told them the blue tape was gentlest on the stone walls and railings. The Capitol's interior features 43 varieties of stone.
The union also began raising money early in the protests for food, supplies and other expenses. It plans to use some of the $67,000 sitting in that fund now to help the state cover cleanup costs.
Meghan Thumm Mackey, an art conservator who has a studio in Middleton, said that even painters tape that's left on too long can leave adhesive residue on stone surfaces and require professional evaluation and removal using a solvent such as acetone, the main ingredient in nail polish remover, with a cotton swab.
That can get expensive, she said, as the small field of people like her trained in art conservation typically charge $100 an hour or more. In Stephan's memo, the state would need to rely heavily on such experts, which to clean 240,000 square feet inside would cost $6 million. He estimated another $1 million to clean and replenish the grounds outside and up to $500,000 for the initial assessment.
Even with the professional help, Mackey said the state's $7.5 million estimate "seems high to me." In a follow-up memo Friday to Huebsch by state facilities official Peter Manternowski, the cost is estimated as low as $347,500 if restoration specialists aren't required.
On Friday, the Division of State Facilities had two stonemasons go through the Capitol's second floor, where the majority of protest signs that once papered the walls have been removed, assessing what would be involved in the cleanup.
The walls and railings had little visible signs of discoloration. One of the masons was observed wiping off adhesive residue on a marble railing.
Using a water-based solvent called Marbleous, the mason was able to wipe the mark clear within minutes, with no lasting mark remaining.
Sean Heiser, an AFSCME field supervisor who oversees the Capitol's eight full-time custodians, said he did a site visit at the Capitol on Monday and found the nearly century-old building in good condition. Custodians reported cooperation from the Capitol's overnight residents.
"We didn't see the $7.5 million in damage they're claiming," he said. "It's just not there."
The local branch of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades District Council also weighed in, saying the union has a century of experience painting and removing adhesive tape from the Capitol. Business Manager John Jorgensen said he believed the damage estimates were overstated and offered the union's volunteer labor to take down signs and clear any debris on the walls.

Blackstone
03-06-2011, 09:55 AM
Here, lefties, are you happy now? It turns out that the $7.5 million estimate was if union labor was used. Non-union labor will be $347,000. I'm more concerned with the 41 rounds of .22LR that was found on the capitol grounds. I thought all lefties were against guns?

This is from a leftist rag (http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_87fdc162-46ce-11e0-bb6e-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story) so I wouldn't read too much into it.

State officials say $7 million cleanup of state Capitol was overstated

DAN SIMMONS | dsimmons@madison.com | 608-252-6136 | Posted: Saturday, March 5, 2011 6:30 am

State officials admitted Friday that they may have overstated cleanup costs related to the recent two-week state Capitol camp-out by as much as $7 million as union leaders and protesters harshly criticized the estimate quoted by a state lawyer at a court hearing Thursday.
"It's an insult," said Kevin Gibbons, co-president of Teaching Assistants' Association, the union that organized daily cleanups of the Capitol while maintaining a 24-hour protest village for two weeks. "I'm sure anyone who made that estimate didn't witness the lengths we went to to make sure we didn't hurt the Capitol."
Department of Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch admitted Friday the $7.5 million quoted by DOA lawyer Cari Ann Renlund was "at the high end of the range" and that actual cleanup costs could be as low as $347,500.
Huebsch defended the discrepancy at an afternoon press conference, saying the estimate represented the "best information available at the time" based on a memo by state architect Daniel Stephans.
But in the memo, released to the media Friday, Stephans acknowledged his estimate "was nothing more than an educated guess."
Gibbons said union leaders enforced a rigid discipline on the hundreds of protesters who made the Capitol their home for two weeks, consulting with Capitol Police on policies that would tread as gently as possible on the century-old statehouse.
Early on, union leaders supplied hundreds of rolls of blue painters tape to protesters whose Capitol camp-out began Feb. 15 and ended Thursday. Police told them the blue tape was gentlest on the stone walls and railings. The Capitol's interior features 43 varieties of stone.
The union also began raising money early in the protests for food, supplies and other expenses. It plans to use some of the $67,000 sitting in that fund now to help the state cover cleanup costs.
Meghan Thumm Mackey, an art conservator who has a studio in Middleton, said that even painters tape that's left on too long can leave adhesive residue on stone surfaces and require professional evaluation and removal using a solvent such as acetone, the main ingredient in nail polish remover, with a cotton swab.
That can get expensive, she said, as the small field of people like her trained in art conservation typically charge $100 an hour or more. In Stephan's memo, the state would need to rely heavily on such experts, which to clean 240,000 square feet inside would cost $6 million. He estimated another $1 million to clean and replenish the grounds outside and up to $500,000 for the initial assessment.
Even with the professional help, Mackey said the state's $7.5 million estimate "seems high to me." In a follow-up memo Friday to Huebsch by state facilities official Peter Manternowski, the cost is estimated as low as $347,500 if restoration specialists aren't required. On Friday, the Division of State Facilities had two stonemasons go through the Capitol's second floor, where the majority of protest signs that once papered the walls have been removed, assessing what would be involved in the cleanup.
The walls and railings had little visible signs of discoloration. One of the masons was observed wiping off adhesive residue on a marble railing.
Using a water-based solvent called Marbleous, the mason was able to wipe the mark clear within minutes, with no lasting mark remaining. Sean Heiser, an AFSCME field supervisor who oversees the Capitol's eight full-time custodians, said he did a site visit at the Capitol on Monday and found the nearly century-old building in good condition. Custodians reported cooperation from the Capitol's overnight residents.
"We didn't see the $7.5 million in damage they're claiming," he said. "It's just not there."
The local branch of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades District Council also weighed in, saying the union has a century of experience painting and removing adhesive tape from the Capitol. Business Manager John Jorgensen said he believed the damage estimates were overstated and offered the union's volunteer labor to take down signs and clear any debris on the walls.

Actually, the $7.5 mil was if the state brought in their "restoration specialists" to restore damage that wasn't there. Looks like the union is willing to perform any cleaning for free.

caryalsobrook
03-06-2011, 10:00 AM
Actually, the $7.5 mil was if the state brought in their "restoration specialists" to restore damage that wasn't there. Looks like the union is willing to perform any cleaning for free.

big of them to offer to pay part if not all the cost of the mess they made!

sandyg
03-06-2011, 10:11 AM
Actually, the $7.5 mil was if the state brought in their "restoration specialists" to restore damage that wasn't there. Looks like the union is willing to perform any cleaning for free.

I was being humorous. You think conservatives can't read?
If you guys would only have been this careful reviewing Obama's record before you voted for him we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

Roger Perry
03-06-2011, 10:29 AM
I was being humorous. You think conservatives can't read?
If you guys would only have been this careful reviewing Obama's record before you voted for him we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

I reviewed the McCain/Palin records and had they been elected we would now find ourselves in a depression:-x and/or another war:snipersmile:. Thank you America that they did not get elected.:D

caryalsobrook
03-06-2011, 10:39 AM
big of them to offer to pay part if not all the cost of the mess they made!

Just kidding. I wouldn't nominate him for anything:)

starjack
03-06-2011, 03:22 PM
I reviewed the McCain/Palin records and had they been elected we would now find ourselves in a depression:-x and/or another war:snipersmile:. Thank you America that they did not get elected.:D

AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW:rolleyes:

huntinman
03-06-2011, 03:23 PM
AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW:rolleyes:

The mind is a terrible thing to waste...

Blackstone
03-06-2011, 07:48 PM
I was being humorous. You think conservatives can't read?
If you guys would only have been this careful reviewing Obama's record before you voted for him we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.

Yeah, things were going so well before he was elected. Oh, sorry, was that more of your humor?

M&K's Retrievers
03-06-2011, 08:22 PM
If it were only say $50,000 in damage, would that be OK? Why did they do any damage?

Just wondering regards,

Blackstone
03-06-2011, 09:04 PM
If it were only say $50,000 in damage, would that be OK? Why did they do any damage?

Just wondering regards,

I haven't seen any pictures of damage. It seems the "damage" has now been downgraded to "clean up."

M&K's Retrievers
03-06-2011, 10:58 PM
I haven't seen any pictures of damage. It seems the "damage" has now been downgraded to "clean up."

Why didn't they pick up after themselves? That is my point. It shouldn't cost others anything for them to protest. Clean up after yourself. It's not hard to do.

dnf777
03-07-2011, 05:11 AM
Why didn't they pick up after themselves? That is my point. It shouldn't cost others anything for them to protest. Clean up after yourself. It's not hard to do.

The vast majority did. That's why Stan and the extreme radical right felt the need to grossly inflate the clean-up bill.

Yet another propaganda ploy DEBUNKED!

road kill
03-07-2011, 06:44 AM
The vast majority did. That's why Stan and the extreme radical right felt the need to grossly inflate the clean-up bill.

Yet another propaganda ploy DEBUNKED!

I'll give you that you are consistent.

Post after post crying out for attention, laced with personal insults and concocted anecdotes and the over use of personal pro-nouns.

By a poster that doesn't have the kahones to walk to the line................



RK:D

Blackstone
03-07-2011, 10:39 AM
Why didn't they pick up after themselves? That is my point. It shouldn't cost others anything for them to protest. Clean up after yourself. It's not hard to do.

From what I understand, they pretty much did clean up. I looked on the web for pictures of damage or trash left behind, and couldn't find anything. You would think with all the coverage the protests have gotten, there would be some pictures circulating. I think the accusations were just overblown.

road kill
03-07-2011, 10:50 AM
From what I understand, they pretty much did clean up. I looked on the web for pictures of damage or trash left behind, and couldn't find anything. You would think with all the coverage the protests have gotten, there would be some pictures circulating. I think the accusations were just overblown.

Really???


I am listening to a spokesperson from the Capital explaining how they cleaned up the signage and the garbage left behind.

But hey, what does he know??

People in KS & PA & FL have so much better connections than the person who is in the building.



RK:rolleyes:

dnf777
03-07-2011, 10:54 AM
I'll give you that you are consistent.

Post after post crying out for attention, laced with personal insults and concocted anecdotes and the over use of personal pro-nouns.

By a poster that doesn't have the kahones to walk to the line................



RK:D


You make me laugh!

I haven't called anyone a name or personal insult, just to see what happens. And sure enough, more false accusations and lies.
Its the RWE M.O.

Hey, it works at the national level, why not on forums?

Have a good one!

There's no sense in talking with you anymore. You continue to post propaganda, and make claims and accusations that are completely concocted in you mind. Its worthless to talk when there's no regard for the truth or facts.

(notice, no name calling!)

Blackstone
03-07-2011, 11:44 AM
Really???


I am listening to a spokesperson from the Capital explaining how they cleaned up the signage and the garbage left behind.

But hey, what does he know??

People in KS & PA & FL have so much better connections than the person who is in the building.



RK:rolleyes:

Wasn't that also a spokesperson for the Capital that said there was $7.5 million in damages?

road kill
03-07-2011, 11:48 AM
Wasn't that also a spokesperson for the Capital that said there was $7.5 million in damages?


Don't beleive it was the same person, why?
(BTW--I didn't write the article)

Oh....my bad, you get to decide what you think might be real.

Go plug your electric car in............
I must say, I am just a little surprised to see you regurgitate the company line, just a little, not completely.



RK

Blackstone
03-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Don't beleive it was the same person, why?
(BTW--I didn't write the article)

Oh....my bad, you get to decide what you think might be real.

Go plug your electric car in............



RK

Maybe not the same person, but the same administration. One has been already been proven to be false, and I haven't seen any proof of the other anywhere. But, I'm reasonable, if there is evidence the protesters left trash behind, I'll admit to it. Like I said, I just haven't seen any yet.

I didn't know I had an electric car. I guess you're deciding what you think might be real now.

huntinman
03-07-2011, 12:33 PM
Stan, just wasting your time...Blackstone will ALWAYS have the last word. Whether it makes sense or not.

road kill
03-07-2011, 12:54 PM
Stan, just wasting your time...Blackstone will ALWAYS have the last word. Whether it makes sense or not.

10-4


RK

road kill
03-07-2011, 01:13 PM
Now I see where you progressive liberal's have gotten your marching orders.

http://dekerivers.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/damage-estimates-overblown-by-republicans-concerning-state-capitol-protests/

Take a look at this site.
Objective as can be.
Who wrote it??

A protestor.



Nuff said.........


RK

sandyg
03-07-2011, 01:23 PM
This didn't take long to find. But I'm sure the lefties will spin it. Make all the excuses you want, the protesters left a mess.



http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/wisconsin-teachers-union-protest-trash.jpg?w=300&h=225

http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/protesters-leave-trash-at-wisconsin-capitol.jpg?w=300&h=225

http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/union-workers-trash-wisconsin.jpg?w=300&h=225

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 01:28 PM
This didn't take long to find. But I'm sure the lefties will spin it. Make all the excuses you want, the protesters left a mess.



http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/wisconsin-teachers-union-protest-trash.jpg?w=300&h=225

http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/protesters-leave-trash-at-wisconsin-capitol.jpg?w=300&h=225

http://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/union-workers-trash-wisconsin.jpg?w=300&h=225

I'm POSITIVE they are tea party trash:)

dnf777
03-07-2011, 04:10 PM
I'm POSITIVE they are tea party trash:)

Oh no. Definately union protestors. And that looks like its at LEAST $200million to clean up, not a mere 7.5 mil!!

Just think, all that money wasted, Obama could take a one-day trip to India for that much!


You guys are endless entertainment!

Thanks for the laugh! :D:D:D

starjack
03-07-2011, 04:18 PM
The vast majority did. That's why Stan and the extreme radical right felt the need to grossly inflate the clean-up bill.

Yet another propaganda ploy DEBUNKED!

If it cost me one dollar it is to much. BTW heard on 620 tmj milwaukee some of the protester want there bongos and bull horns back. Did you here that in PA?

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 05:01 PM
Oh no. Definately union protestors. And that looks like its at LEAST $200million to clean up, not a mere 7.5 mil!!

Just think, all that money wasted, Obama could take a one-day trip to India for that much!


You guys are endless entertainment!

Thanks for the laugh! :D:D:D

I had a small picture sstolen off the wall in my reception room. Don't know what it cost and really didn't care.The fact was that it belonged to me and whoever took it is a thief and trash and anyone who would think it was funny is to me not only trash but garbage. I suspect you probably don't own your office so maybe you don't understand it.

dnf777
03-07-2011, 05:14 PM
I had a small picture sstolen off the wall in my reception room. Don't know what it cost and really didn't care.The fact was that it belonged to me and whoever took it is a thief and trash and anyone who would think it was funny is to me not only trash but garbage. I suspect you probably don't own your office so maybe you don't understand it.

Well, you suspect wrong. And I do understand theft. Nothing pisses me off more. That's why I don't let my office manager put my diplomas, awards, or military decorations on display in our waiting room. I don't want them to walk off.

But this is a perfect example of the attacks that occur here. I make comments to the effect that this 7.5 million is trumped up. Which it is. So what happens? I'm told I don't own my own office? That I wouldn't understand having things stolen from me?

Doc, I expect more from you. You're on the same level as some of the others. Notably three others who rarely have anything to say other than personal attacks.

Have a good day.

(notice, no name calling)

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 06:47 PM
Well, you suspect wrong. And I do understand theft. Nothing pisses me off more. That's why I don't let my office manager put my diplomas, awards, or military decorations on display in our waiting room. I don't want them to walk off.

But this is a perfect example of the attacks that occur here. I make comments to the effect that this 7.5 million is trumped up. Which it is. So what happens? I'm told I don't own my own office? That I wouldn't understand having things stolen from me?

Doc, I expect more from you. You're on the same level as some of the others. Notably three others who rarely have anything to say other than personal attacks.

Have a good day.

(notice, no name calling)

I don't think there is anything on the pictures about the cost of cleaning it up. As many people with any sense have said REPEATEDLY, the amount isn't relevant. Take a look at the signs on the highways. It says $xxx for litering highway. It doesn't say $xx for littering the highway if it cost over $xxx to clean it up.
You or anybody else want to make fun of the estimate of the cost to clean up the mess, I have no problem so long as they also condemn the people that made it with the same enthusiasm. I don't know what the cost to clean up the mess of if there was even any damage. I do know that they clean up the mess and reapair any damage as efficiently and as cost effective as possible.

I must say if you laugh and scoff at such behavior at someone else's doorway then you can't complain if they laugh and scoff if it happens at your doorway. I hve no respect for that church if you want to call it that that protests military funerals or anybody's funeral for that matter. I have no respect for those who refuse to say the Pledge or burn the flag. They are free to do such things not only as their Constitutional right but it gives all to wee what they stand for and that is just important.

Condemn the behavior of those who made such a mess and ridicule those who made the estimate if you know for a fact it is high. Then you would not have heard me say a word.

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 06:54 PM
Well, you suspect wrong. And I do understand theft. Nothing pisses me off more. That's why I don't let my office manager put my diplomas, awards, or military decorations on display in our waiting room. I don't want them to walk off.

But this is a perfect example of the attacks that occur here. I make comments to the effect that this 7.5 million is trumped up. Which it is. So what happens? I'm told I don't own my own office? That I wouldn't understand having things stolen from me?

Doc, I expect more from you. You're on the same level as some of the others. Notably three others who rarely have anything to say other than personal attacks.

Have a good day.

(notice, no name calling)

How about telling me what name I called you. I'm curious. You show me where I call you a name and I will be glad to apologize.

huntinman
03-07-2011, 06:57 PM
I don't think there is anything on the pictures about the cost of cleaning it up. As many people with any sense have said REPEATEDLY, the amount isn't relevant. Take a look at the signs on the highways. It says $xxx for litering highway. It doesn't say $xx for littering the highway if it cost over $xxx to clean it up.
You or anybody else want to make fun of the estimate of the cost to clean up the mess, I have no problem so long as they also condemn the people that made it with the same enthusiasm. I don't know what the cost to clean up the mess of if there was even any damage. I do know that they clean up the mess and reapair any damage as efficiently and as cost effective as possible.

I must say if you laugh and scoff at such behavior at someone else's doorway then you can't complain if they laugh and scoff if it happens at your doorway. I have no respect for that church if you want to call it that that protests military funerals or anybody's funeral for that matter. I have no respect for those who refuse to say the Pledge or burn the flag. They are free to do such things not only as their Constitutional right but it gives all to wee what they stand for and that is just important.

Condemn the behavior of those who made such a mess and ridicule those who made the estimate if you know for a fact it is high. Then you would not have heard me say a word.

Good post. DNF is a middle of the roader whose condemnation only seems to land on the right side of the road. Most of us will at least stand up and say we are lefties or righties and damn proud of it. But I am wary of those who try to play both sides (like Obama did for most of his career by voting "present" or not voting at all on many issues).

dnf777
03-07-2011, 06:59 PM
How about telling me what name I called you. I'm curious. You show me where I call you a name and I will be glad to apologize.

If you first will please tell me where I said YOU called me a name. I didn't say you called me anything. I pointed out that I didn't call any names. Since others accuse me regularly of that, I try to point out in my posts that I'm not doing that. Don't take it so personal.

I'm still trying to figure out what the proprietary issues with my office have to do with the trumped up damage claims in WI?? :confused: I'll be happy to answer if you explain that. Or that I don't understand having things stolen??

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 07:11 PM
I apologize for the phrase "calling you names". I read too quickly or maybe I just have dementia. I should where did I level personal attacks toward you. That is the question I should have asked.
I don't know how to highlight only the relevant part of your post but it was the sentence where you said I was on the same level as those that only could level personal attacks.

You conviently ignored the last part of my post. Wonder why???

dnf777
03-07-2011, 07:15 PM
I apologize for the phrase "calling you names". I read too quickly or maybe I just have dementia. I should where did I level personal attacks toward you. That is the question I should have asked.
I don't know how to highlight only the relevant part of your post but it was the sentence where you said I was on the same level as those that only could level personal attacks.

You conviently ignored the last part of my post. Wonder why???

Not at all.

I was discussing what I believe to be trumped up damage estimates, as have a few others here, when all the sudden I was told I probably wouldn't understand having something of mine stolen because I don't own my own office???

Not sure what my practice's building situation has to do with comments about the WI statehouse?? I've had things stolen before too. So I guess I just don't understand why you chose to go personal with the discussion? But it is a similar tack that basically three others commonly employ, who rarely have substantive comments. Although we often disagree, I find your comments interesting and well thought out, and enjoy reading them.

sandyg
03-07-2011, 07:25 PM
This forum would be so nice if we would all put one person on IGNORE. For someone so educated he is so childish. Don't take the bait! You can't win! He'll always have the last word. Need further convincing? Read this...


Never Argue With A Fool Ė They Will Drag You Down To Their Level, Then Beat You With Experience!


Do you feel like every time you get involved in an argument, you have got to win? If you know that someone is wrong, and you have a solution, do you feel like, youíve to argue with them until they embrace your point? You can try, but if the person youíre arguing with is a fool, you will be hitting your head against a rock! It wonít work.

You donít need to win an argument. If someone doesnít want to listen to you, leave them be. If you tell them your point, and they donít want to listen, keep quiet and let it go! I admit there are some who need a little convincing to get your point, but there are those who are simply fools, who take pride in arguing; believing they are always right. Donít waste your time with those.
Iíll admit, there are some arguments that are constructive, when both parties are seeking a solution. Those kinds of arguments are rewarding. Both parties will be helping each other to come out with a better solution. But, in most cases, people argue for the sake of arguing. Arguing for the sake of arguing, is a waste of time.
There are people in this world you just need to ignore if they behave or act in a foolish manner. They take pride in making other people angry. They enjoy winning arguments no matter how wrong or ignorant they might be. Some of them know which buttons to press to get you angry, and if you decide to argue with them, youíll be heading towards their trap.
Fools like to see you getting angry, swearing, speaking negative words or getting involved in a fight with them. They do what they do fully aware that theyíre tickling you to get upset. Trying to argue with those guys, thinking they might get your point or understand how you do things, will not work. Donít try to prove anything to them. Your only solution is to watch, listen, observe and keep your mouth shut.
If you feel tempted to answer to a fool, donít do it. Ignore them, even if you feel like screaming to them. Your silence will prevent you from converting to their cult of foolishness. If you argue with a fool, youíll become a fool just like them, and youíll make a fool of yourself!
Some people, you just have to let them be. Let them behave the way they do, let them say whatever they want to say against you, let them go behind your back and say all those lies about you. You donít need to fight them. Thatís exactly what they will be looking for from you. Donít even go around trying to justify yourself to the world about your innocence. Leave it like that.

IT IS BEST TO BE THOUGHT A FOOLÖ.THEN SPEAK AND REMOVE ALL DOUBTÖÖ
Learn a great habit of keeping your mouth shut whenever a fool is in front of you. Let them do the talking, and you do the ignoring!

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 07:29 PM
Not at all.

I was discussing what I believe to be trumped up damage estimates, as have a few others here, when all the sudden I was told I probably wouldn't understand having something of mine stolen because I don't own my own office???

Not sure what my practice's building situation has to do with comments about the WI statehouse?? I've had things stolen before too. So I guess I just don't understand why you chose to go personal with the discussion? But it is a similar tack that basically three others commonly employ, who rarely have substantive comments. Although we often disagree, I find your comments interesting and well thought out, and enjoy reading them.

You still ignore the last sentence of my post. Let me try again. DO YOU CONDENM THOSE WHO LEFT SUCH A MESS ON PROPERTY THAT THEY DO NOT OWN AS YOU DO THOSE THAT MAY HAVE OVERESTIMATED THE DAMAGE OR NOT?

I also have no problem stating that if someone deliberately overestimated the costs incurred and did it to attempt to magnify the severity of their destructive behavior, then they should be fired if they work for the state.

road kill
03-07-2011, 07:43 PM
You still ignore the last sentence of my post. Let me try again. DO YOU CONDENM THOSE WHO LEFT SUCH A MESS ON PROPERTY THAT THEY DO NOT OWN AS YOU DO THOSE THAT MAY HAVE OVERESTIMATED THE DAMAGE OR NOT?

I also have no problem stating that if someone deliberately overestimated the costs incurred and did it to attempt to magnify the severity of their destructive behavior, then they should be fired if they work for the state.
dnf has argued with just about everyone here.

Once he was here alone and argued with himself for 3 hours and still lost!

And then tattled...........


RK

dnf777
03-07-2011, 07:57 PM
You still ignore the last sentence of my post. Let me try again. DO YOU CONDENM THOSE WHO LEFT SUCH A MESS ON PROPERTY THAT THEY DO NOT OWN AS YOU DO THOSE THAT MAY HAVE OVERESTIMATED THE DAMAGE OR NOT?

I also have no problem stating that if someone deliberately overestimated the costs incurred and did it to attempt to magnify the severity of their destructive behavior, then they should be fired if they work for the state.

Of course I do. I didn't realize that was what you were referring to. I would hope ALL of us on RTF, being outdoorsmen to varying degrees, were all taught to leave a place neater than how you find it, even gov't buildings. And remember, it only takes a small minority to tarnish the image of the whole.

I hope that answers your question, and maybe even find a little common ground.

ps...you can see two of the immature posters who offer nothing but personal attacks above.....THOSE were who I was referring to in my comment....not YOU! ;)

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 07:59 PM
dnf has argued with just about everyone here.

Once he was here alone and argued with himself for 3 hours and still lost!

And then tattled...........


RK

I know I'm hardheaded. I guess I'm just haaving another brainfart. Just counting the questions that go unanswered. I think there are about three on the threads today alone. I'm not going to hold my breath for a response.

Had I held it for the previous questions I have asked, i probably would have made some on this forum happy. but I must say I don't hope they hold THEIR breath:)

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 08:03 PM
This forum would be so nice if we would all put one person on IGNORE. For someone so educated he is so childish. Don't take the bait! You can't win! He'll always have the last word. Need further convincing? Read this...


Never Argue With A Fool Ė They Will Drag You Down To Their Level, Then Beat You With Experience!


Do you feel like every time you get involved in an argument, you have got to win? If you know that someone is wrong, and you have a solution, do you feel like, youíve to argue with them until they embrace your point? You can try, but if the person youíre arguing with is a fool, you will be hitting your head against a rock! It wonít work.

You donít need to win an argument. If someone doesnít want to listen to you, leave them be. If you tell them your point, and they donít want to listen, keep quiet and let it go! I admit there are some who need a little convincing to get your point, but there are those who are simply fools, who take pride in arguing; believing they are always right. Donít waste your time with those.
Iíll admit, there are some arguments that are constructive, when both parties are seeking a solution. Those kinds of arguments are rewarding. Both parties will be helping each other to come out with a better solution. But, in most cases, people argue for the sake of arguing. Arguing for the sake of arguing, is a waste of time.
There are people in this world you just need to ignore if they behave or act in a foolish manner. They take pride in making other people angry. They enjoy winning arguments no matter how wrong or ignorant they might be. Some of them know which buttons to press to get you angry, and if you decide to argue with them, youíll be heading towards their trap.
Fools like to see you getting angry, swearing, speaking negative words or getting involved in a fight with them. They do what they do fully aware that theyíre tickling you to get upset. Trying to argue with those guys, thinking they might get your point or understand how you do things, will not work. Donít try to prove anything to them. Your only solution is to watch, listen, observe and keep your mouth shut.
If you feel tempted to answer to a fool, donít do it. Ignore them, even if you feel like screaming to them. Your silence will prevent you from converting to their cult of foolishness. If you argue with a fool, youíll become a fool just like them, and youíll make a fool of yourself!
Some people, you just have to let them be. Let them behave the way they do, let them say whatever they want to say against you, let them go behind your back and say all those lies about you. You donít need to fight them. Thatís exactly what they will be looking for from you. Donít even go around trying to justify yourself to the world about your innocence. Leave it like that.

IT IS BEST TO BE THOUGHT A FOOLÖ.THEN SPEAK AND REMOVE ALL DOUBTÖÖ
Learn a great habit of keeping your mouth shut whenever a fool is in front of you. Let them do the talking, and you do the ignoring!

You are a lot smarter than I am. Keep telling me this and maybe it will sink into my hard head:)

dnf777
03-07-2011, 08:07 PM
I know I'm hardheaded. I guess I'm just haaving another brainfart. Just counting the questions that go unanswered. I think there are about three on the threads today alone. I'm not going to hold my breath for a response.

Had I held it for the previous questions I have asked, i probably would have made some on this forum happy. but I must say I don't hope they hold THEIR breath:)

Gee, I thought my post #99 answered your question.

What other two questions have I failed to adequately answer? I do feel compelled, seeing how everyone else here answers questions. :rolleyes:

sandyg
03-07-2011, 08:37 PM
Caryalsobrook, reread post #96! Don't take the bait!

charly_t
03-07-2011, 08:54 PM
You are a lot smarter than I am. Keep telling me this and maybe it will sink into my hard head:)

LOL, it's known as "don't feed the trolls" but some trolls are very difficult to recognize. I tend to feed animals of all kinds at times...........even trolls. It
is a very hard habit to break, vbeg.

M&K's Retrievers
03-07-2011, 09:10 PM
This forum would be so nice if we would all put one person on IGNORE.



Funny. I thought he was. :cool:

dnf777
03-07-2011, 09:37 PM
Funny. I thought he was. :cool:

You three wouldn't have anything to do if you didn't stir things up with insults. All three of you have yet to say one thing substantial on this topic, other than to pile on with baseless claims.

If you would stop the insults for just one moment, you would see I agreed with cary on this matter. Never mind though, just keep your insults coming. It lets me know I've "won". No wonder this country is in the mess it is!

(note, no name calling)

caryalsobrook
03-07-2011, 10:59 PM
Caryalsobrook, reread post #96! Don't take the bait!

Done!!!!!:)

road kill
03-08-2011, 05:51 AM
In all fairness, dnf is an exemplary poster.
He is above reproach.
He has never done anything out of line.
He has never started or antagonized an argument with anyone here.
He never insults anyone.
He is extremely humble, never centering entire threads on himself.
He never concocts anecdotes to support a theory.
His theorys are never flawed, and he is always the most learned poster on any topic.
He has never once complained to an admin about his uncivil treatment.
He was FORCED to use an extremely offensive term. (pm me to find out what it is, it includes 2 verbs).
He is an accomplished dog trainer/handler.

He is probably the most popular poster on this site!!

Frankly, we big meanies have victimized him beyond beleif.:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AwvRzOh4RA


RK

Ken Bora
03-08-2011, 05:55 AM
In all fairness, dnf is an exemplary poster.
He is above reproach.
He has never done anything out of line.
He has never started or antagonized an argument with anyone here.
He never insults anyone.
He is extremely humble, never centering entire threads on himself.
He never concocts anecdotes to support a theory.
His theorys are never flawed, and he is always the most learned poster on any topic.
He has never once complained to an admin about his uncivil treatment.

He is probably the most popular poster on this site!!

Frankly, we big meanies have victimized him beyond beleif.:D


RK




I don't know who you are or what you have done with Stan,
but when he gets loose your gonna have knuckle marks on your forehead.
and that's all I know about that ;-)




.

sandyg
03-08-2011, 09:21 AM
In all fairness, dnf is an exemplary poster.
He is above reproach.
He has never done anything out of line.
He has never started or antagonized an argument with anyone here.
He never insults anyone.
He is extremely humble, never centering entire threads on himself.
He never concocts anecdotes to support a theory.
His theorys are never flawed, and he is always the most learned poster on any topic.
He has never once complained to an admin about his uncivil treatment.
He was FORCED to use an extremely offensive term. (pm me to find out what it is, it includes 2 verbs).
He is an accomplished dog trainer/handler.

He is probably the most popular poster on this site!!

Frankly, we big meanies have victimized him beyond beleif.:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AwvRzOh4RA


RK


As I remember it, DNF told Gibson to FOAD, Gibson kept reminding him of it, and the next thing I know Gibson is banned.

Now I'm no doctor but I can put 2 and 2 together and surmise that one little piggy squealed all the way home.

That's why I maintain that since we can't get rid of him and he won't go away all we can do is put him on ignore and avoid the temptation to respond to him. He's like a child, he desperately wants attention, let's not give it to him.

Ken Bora
03-08-2011, 09:38 AM
As I remember it, DNF told Gibson to FOAD, Gibson kept reminding him of it, and the next thing I know Gibson is banned.

Now I'm no doctor but I can put 2 and 2 together and surmise that one little piggy squealed all the way home.

.


good thing your not a doc.;-)
Gibber broke the "don't have multiple rtf names" rule multiple times.
!!!!!!multiple!!!!!
while he may have had other issues, I bet the listserve program itself
"squeeled" on him.
I, like many could tell just by the typing style.

road kill
03-08-2011, 09:45 AM
You guys are both drifting off topic!!

There is only 1 topic on all threads!!

Learn it!
Love it!
Live it!


RK:D

Ken Bora
03-08-2011, 10:09 AM
You guys are both drifting off topic!!

There is only 1 topic on all threads!!

Learn it!
Love it!
Live it!


RK:D

Gosh, I am so sorry Stan and I realize the error of my ways.
I freely admit, under no pressure or fear of bodily harm.
it was President Bush's fault that Gibber done got banned from the rtf... ;-)



is that more better everyone?:cool:







.

road kill
03-08-2011, 10:18 AM
Gosh, I am so sorry Stan and I realize the error of my ways.
I freely admit, under no pressure or fear of bodily harm.
it was President Bush's fault that Gibber done got banned from the rtf... ;-)



is that more better everyone?:cool:







.

Well.........all right then........but!!!!!!:-x


RK

sandyg
03-08-2011, 11:10 AM
good thing your not a doc.;-)
Gibber broke the "don't have multiple rtf names" rule multiple times.
!!!!!!multiple!!!!!
while he may have had other issues, I bet the listserve program itself
"squeeled" on him.
I, like many could tell just by the typing style.

That explanation sounds reasonable. I'll buy it. It's makes more sense than my assumption.