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caryalsobrook
03-10-2011, 10:40 AM
I have been getting PM's in an attempt to discuss dentistry as a part of health care. I have always wanted to respect another's confidientiality but using PM's in order to hide their criticisms is in my opinion an abuse of PM's.

Today, I received this PM. I have left out one phrase which might identify the sender but in no way changes the context of the PM.

"A young woman had a mouthful of rotten teeth and abscesses. Says none of the dentists in town will see her. Her family DOCTOR has been taking care of her teeth?? My wife got two similar calls in the middle of the night to take care of teeth,l While the dentists were sound asleep in their cozy beds. What's up with that? Where's the emergency care? I hope this is an anomaly, as I'm very disappointed with the professionalism(lack thereof) of dentistry in this area."

Let it be known that I have no problem discussing the dental profession having been in dentistry for 35 years. I do not hide who I am or where I live nor my history of dental practice and where I practiced.

Anybody who wants to discuss this question or an other question about dentistry, I will be happy to try and answer it, so long as they make themselves known and above board.

road kill
03-10-2011, 10:44 AM
I have been getting PM's in an attempt to discuss dentistry as a part of health care. I have always wanted to respect another's confidientiality but using PM's in order to hide their criticisms is in my opinion an abuse of PM's.

Today, I received this PM. I have left out one phrase which might identify the sender but in no way changes the context of the PM.

"A young woman had a mouthful of rotten teeth and abscesses. Says none of the dentists in town will see her. Her family DOCTOR has been taking care of her teeth?? My wife got two similar calls in the middle of the night to take care of teeth,l While the dentists were sound asleep in their cozy beds. What's up with that? Where's the emergency care? I hope this is an anomaly, as I'm very disappointed with the professionalism(lack thereof) of dentistry in this area."

Let it be known that I have no problem discussing the dental profession having been in dentistry for 35 years. I do not hide who I am or where I live nor my history of dental practice and where I practiced.

Anybody who wants to discuss this question or an other question about dentistry, I will be happy to try and answer it, so long as they make themselves known and above board.


The only "lack of professionalism" would be with the DR that would have sent a pm like this kind of communication on a Retriever Training Forum."

Even in the POTUS section this is clearly not the time nor the place for this PRIVATE issue to be discussed.

One can only guess what the motivation truly is.:rolleyes:


stan b

dnf777
03-10-2011, 10:51 AM
I have no problem with you airing that PM.
It was from me, in case you wanted that distributed too.
I sent that PM as to not embarass your profession, that is not the goal.
I was wondering what if any Hippocratic Oath dentists take, and do they provide any charity work for the poor? We can't seem to find any dental care here that's not cash in advance.

Please honor your word, as in your last comment, and discuss this if you "will be happy to try and answer it".

Please go PM if you'd like. I didn't mean to clutter the forum with this, rather you chose to. I generally don't say anything in PMs I wouldn't say pubically.

caryalsobrook
03-10-2011, 10:52 AM
The only "lack of professionalism" would be with the DR that would have this kind of communication on a Retriever Training Forum."

Even in the POTUS section this is clearly not the time nor the place for this PRIVATE issue to be discussed.

One can only guess what the motivation truly is.:rolleyes:


stan b

If it was improper to post this as a thread, i apologize. I just did not know how else to ahndle it. I will remove the thread if it is improper.
This is either the 1st or maybe the 2nd thread I have started. I as a rule don't start them.

dnf777
03-10-2011, 10:53 AM
The only "lack of professionalism" would be with the DR that would have this kind of communication on a Retriever Training Forum."

Even in the POTUS section this is clearly not the time nor the place for this PRIVATE issue to be discussed.

One can only guess what the motivation truly is.:rolleyes:


stan b

First of all, no patient information was given, this was a generic example.
Second, I did not post it on a public forum. I sent it PM (P stands for private)Cary did. And I agree with you that it was unprofessional. Maybe he can address that also.

dnf777
03-10-2011, 10:55 AM
If it was improper to post this as a thread, i apologize. I just did not know how else to ahndle it. I will remove the thread if it is improper.
This is either the 1st or maybe the 2nd thread I have started. I as a rule don't start them.

I asked a legit question. Why didn't you just answer it with a PM reply?

road kill
03-10-2011, 10:56 AM
If it was improper to post this as a thread, i apologize. I just did not know how else to ahndle it. I will remove the thread if it is improper.
This is either the 1st or maybe the 2nd thread I have started. I as a rule don't start them.
My post was not directed towards you.
I warned you what would happen with this guy.
Here is the proof.
There are no depths he won't go to.
You can't compete with him there.
That's why he is an island.

RK

road kill
03-10-2011, 11:06 AM
I asked a legit question. Why didn't you just answer it with a PM reply?

"I'll give you that you are consistent.

Post after post crying out for attention, laced with personal insults and concocted anecdotes and the propensity for the over use of personal pro-nouns.

By a poster that doesn't have the kahones to walk to the line................"



RK:D

Ken Bora
03-10-2011, 11:10 AM
.. any Hippocratic Oath dentists take, and do they provide any charity work for the poor? We can't seem to find any dental care here that's not cash in advance.

.

And if somebody walked into your office on a Friday afternoon a few minutes before closing.
And said “Excuse me Dr. I have no money and no insurance and have lost my hamster.”
Would you send him down the st. to the public hospital emergency room and let you and
your office staff go home for the weekend? Or pull out the spotlight and salad tongs and “Go In”?

A co-worker of mine has a wife. She is a dentist. She has worked on a couple of our dish staff free.
I think everyone is an individual and does what they are able within their own sphere of influence.





.

dnf777
03-10-2011, 11:10 AM
"I'll give you that you are consistent.

Post after post crying out for attention, laced with personal insults and concocted anecdotes and the propensity for the over use of personal pro-nouns.

By a poster that doesn't have the kahones to walk to the line................"



RK:D

Just let it go. You got publically called out for making up stats, and couldn't back it up, and you've had a bee in your bonnet ever since. Let it go man!

If it helps, I apologize for asking for a reference to your comments. I'll just accept everything you say at face value...or ignore it....from now on.

If cary wants to discuss the topic of this thead, I'm all ears. Otherwise, done.

dnf777
03-10-2011, 11:17 AM
And if somebody walked into your office on a Friday afternoon a few minutes before closing.
And said “Excuse me Dr. I have no money and no insurance and have lost my hamster.”
Would you send him down the st. to the public hospital emergency room and let you and
your office staff go home for the weekend? Or pull out the spotlight and salad tongs and “Go In”?

A co-worker of mine has a wife. She is a dentist. She has worked on a couple of our dish staff free.
I think everyone is an individual and does what they are able within their own sphere of influence.


.


First of all, I would say, "Stan, nice to finally meet you! Have a seat and I'll be right with you." :D

There IS NO public clinic here. We are it, and YES, we are all called out at all hours of the night to deal with emergencies. Its part of the job.

Often that includes dental emergencies, for which we are not trained to deal with. I know very well there are dentists who work pro grata, and God bless them! They just don't work here, and I was truly wondering if they can just refuse to see emergincies, or if there is some oath that requires them to treat the indigent at least to a small degree.

And why does that hampster keep rearing its ugly head!? We never should have told you about that!! ;)

caryalsobrook
03-10-2011, 11:40 AM
I asked a legit question. Why didn't you just answer it with a PM reply?

I did not answer via PM for a number of reasons. First of all I would expect both you and I would be more familiar with the health care delivery systme than the lay persons on this forum. That in no way impies that we are smarter then others but that it is expected that due to experience we would be more knowledgeable in the area. The answer is more for their benefit than you. That is the reason that I will not answer such a question via PM.
I use my name as my handle. I am not afraid of where I live or where I practiced nor of my current status. I understand the use of handles and the logic of using them and respect that choice. I choose not to. the posts that I have enjoyed most are those that one has told their life history, especially those of people from other parts of the country.

Now to your question. There are no medical ethics involved unless you had disclosed the name of the patient. I know not where you live so I do not know the demographics of your area. How mant dentists in the are ect. You present a patient with a chief complaint(being abscess teeth) but no medical or dental history. You gave only the patient's word as to access to dental care. Did you call a dentist that you know to seek help?? Had the patient been to enough dentists in the area so that they knew her medical and dental history resulting in their chosing not to treat her? An example is drug addiction wanting only pain medicine as opposed to treatment? There are a number of facts I would have to know to intelligently ask such a question.

There are a number of factors that restricts treatment for dental emergencies. They are only treated in the emergency rooms or dental offices. I cannot comment on all the dentists in the nation but only what I did which I feel was more the norm than the exception. I always took dental emergencies but less frequently as time went on. There were a number of reason for this. There were times I went to the office late at night and chose to take a gun out of concern for my safety. Early on I lived only a couple of minutes from the office so the time involved to get there was minimal. The greatest concern more recently was the fear of meeting a woman at the office alone making me vulnerable to sexuall charges. Regular patients had no problem getting me to see them after hours as necessary.

During my career I saw patients even on Christmas day, one at 4 AM on that day. I said that i was the norm and I firmly believe that. the last day that I practiced was the last day that my office phone was forwarded to my cell phone. I believe that I have adaquately answered your question with a minimul of information.
Now let me ask you how the government health care we see coming, going to solve this problem??

dnf777
03-10-2011, 12:31 PM
The answer is more for their benefit than you. That is the reason that I will not answer such a question via PM.
I didn't PM you for the benefit of the forum. Nobody asked for a lecture on dental care delivery, so didn't think they were interested.
Now to your question. How mant dentists in the are ect. 9 by the yellow pages.

Did you call a dentist that you know to seek help?? Yes. Several. Got recordings saying the office was closed. No emergency number or clinic given. The dentist I sail with just laughed, and said, "I don't know how you guys do it!"

An example is drug addiction wanting only pain medicine as opposed to treatment? [COLOR="blue"]True. We have a serious problem of "doctor shopping" in this area. But when someone is spitting pus, I believe they're really in pain, drug addictions aside.

There are a number of factors that restricts treatment for dental emergencies. The greatest concern more recently was the fear of meeting a woman at the office alone making me vulnerable to sexuall charges. It would be professional suicide to see females alone at evening office hours! I commend you for that. No arguements here.

During my career I saw patients even on Christmas day, one at 4 AM on that day. I said that i was the norm and I firmly believe that. the last day that I practiced was the last day that my office phone was forwarded to my cell phone. I believe that I have adaquately answered your question with a minimul of information. I'm glad to hear that. This was not meant to question your ethics in the least bit. I wish you were in our town. I'd even throw ducks for you.

Now let me ask you how the government health care we see coming, going to solve this problem??

One of the medical clinics here in town, using state and federal grants, is opening a free dental clinic. While it won't have after hours operations, hopefully the availability of dental care will greatly reduce the need for after hour emergency calls.

caryalsobrook
03-10-2011, 12:45 PM
Yo said you called several dentists in the area and you got recordings. The physicians in my area certainly had no trouble getting in touch with me nor did I ever have any trouble getting in touch with them. Maybe that is because I knew them and they knew me. If one happened not to know me all I had to do was either tell the answering service who I was and what I wanted and they invariably got back to me. I was always courtious to them and they were always courtious to me. I can never remamber making a request of them that they didn't respond nor did they ever make a request of me that I did not respond. That goes a long way and I would recommend all try it.

dnf777
03-10-2011, 01:33 PM
Yo said you called several dentists in the area and you got recordings. The physicians in my area certainly had no trouble getting in touch with me nor did I ever have any trouble getting in touch with them. Maybe that is because I knew them and they knew me. If one happened not to know me all I had to do was either tell the answering service who I was and what I wanted and they invariably got back to me. I was always courtious to them and they were always courtious to me. I can never remamber making a request of them that they didn't respond nor did they ever make a request of me that I did not respond. That goes a long way and I would recommend all try it.

That's because you paid for, and were willing to use an answering service. All we get here is recordings, saying to call back in the morning. Like I said, I wish you were here!

caryalsobrook
03-10-2011, 02:15 PM
That's because you paid for, and were willing to use an answering service. All we get here is recordings, saying to call back in the morning. Like I said, I wish you were here!

Unbelieveable. If you will just read my posts you will see that I had no answering service and that the office phone was forwared to my cell phone which was never turned off and I always answered. The only time I did not do this was during vacation. I need to get in touch with a doctor or dentist at night? I can get one because I KNOW them and they KNOW me and I will not call them unless absolutely necessary. As to answering servicess, my experience is that they take a msg and they return my call when who I am calling knows me.
I don't know who you know or who knows you but that is how it works here.

Clay Rogers
03-10-2011, 03:09 PM
Dave, I am not sure what your doing, but it looks like a "who's johnsons bigger contest" and its very unbecoming dude. All professions have their problems. Being an ER nurse in North Carolina, I can say with utmost certainty that PMD's and specialists are not all that great at taking care of their pts after hours either. Can't tell you how many times in a shift I hear "I called my PMD but they told me to come to the ER". And that is during office hours. And most specialists that do pull call for ED consult never want to come in. They come up with all grades of excuses to defer to another speciality or just get the hospitalist to admit and they will see them later. Don't know of any PMD's that see pts after hours in their office.

precisionlabradors
03-10-2011, 03:34 PM
I generally don't say anything in PMs I wouldn't say pubically.


hahahahahahahahahahahah. quote of the day.

duk4me
03-10-2011, 03:51 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahah. quote of the day.

that is so wrong in so many ways that it must be right. Good call.:)

caryalsobrook
03-10-2011, 03:59 PM
Dave, I am not sure what your doing, but it looks like a "who's johnsons bigger contest" and its very unbecoming dude. All professions have their problems. Being an ER nurse in North Carolina, I can say with utmost certainty that PMD's and specialists are not all that great at taking care of their pts after hours either. Can't tell you how many times in a shift I hear "I called my PMD but they told me to come to the ER". And that is during office hours. And most specialists that do pull call for ED consult never want to come in. They come up with all grades of excuses to defer to another speciality or just get the hospitalist to admit and they will see them later. Don't know of any PMD's that see pts after hours in their office.

I wonder how long you have been an er nurse. My experience is that most RNs especially in the ER don't last very long. I'll bet you know what doctors to call if necessary. Anyone who performs his line of work to the best of his abilities deserves respect, no matter how menial some may perceive it. One of the best yardsticks in judging the performance of one's work is how they themselves view the value of their work. All professions have most who do their work in an honorable way and some who do not.

dnf777
03-10-2011, 04:39 PM
Dave, I am not sure what your doing, but it looks like a "who's johnsons bigger contest" and its very unbecoming dude. All professions have their problems. Being an ER nurse in North Carolina, I can say with utmost certainty that PMD's and specialists are not all that great at taking care of their pts after hours either. Can't tell you how many times in a shift I hear "I called my PMD but they told me to come to the ER". And that is during office hours. And most specialists that do pull call for ED consult never want to come in. They come up with all grades of excuses to defer to another speciality or just get the hospitalist to admit and they will see them later. Don't know of any PMD's that see pts after hours in their office.

I don't understand. I was complimenting cary for being so available. I misread the post and thought he had an answering service. Big deal. My point was is that folks could get a hold of him after hours, and I was complimentary about that. Its not that way where I am, and I wish it was.

And I NEVER implied anyone should see patients in their office after hours. Didn't you see my comment specifically about that, where I said it would be like professional suicide?? That's what ERs are for. Unfortunately, they are often abused by people who can't be seen otherwise. I'm sure you know all too well about that.

Have a good one.
dave

road kill
03-10-2011, 04:40 PM
I don't understand. I was complimenting cary for being so available. I misread the post and thought he had an answering service. Big deal. My point was is that folks could get a hold of him after hours, and I was complimentary about that. Its not that way where I am, and I wish it was.

And I NEVER implied anyone should see patients in their office after hours. Didn't you see my comment specifically about that, where I said it would be like professional suicide?? That's what ERs are for. Unfortunately, they are often abused by people who can't be seen otherwise. I'm sure you know all too well about that.

Have a good one.
dave

Finally, something we can all agree on!!!!


RK

Clay Rogers
03-10-2011, 10:06 PM
I wonder how long you have been an er nurse. My experience is that most RNs especially in the ER don't last very long. I'll bet you know what doctors to call if necessary. Anyone who performs his line of work to the best of his abilities deserves respect, no matter how menial some may perceive it. One of the best yardsticks in judging the performance of one's work is how they themselves view the value of their work. All professions have most who do their work in an honorable way and some who do not.



No need to wonder any longer, 10 years as a nurse and about 5 years as a paramedic prior to that. We do know what docs to call because we have a call schedule, but most do as I said before, spend more time on the phone trying to get out of coming in than it would have taken to just come in and admit the pt. Ortho is the worst. They always want to admit to medicine and consult after the pt has been cleared medically, which is bogus as heck.


And Dave, wasn't talking about what you have said since the thread got started. I was referring to what it sounded like you were trying to say in the PM. But heck, I could be wrong, Anyway, headed to Cheraw tomorrow to run a few dogs in Master series. Hope yall have a great weekend.

M&K's Retrievers
03-10-2011, 11:06 PM
CharlieSheen777. :rolleyes:

road kill
03-11-2011, 05:13 AM
In keeping with the title of this thread, I am certain we could all share pm's from the same source that are bizarre at the least.


Just sayin'......


RK

dnf777
03-11-2011, 06:05 AM
In keeping with the title of this thread, I am certain we could all share pm's from the same source that are bizarre at the least.


Just sayin'......


RK

Careful Stan. I'm thinking about re-posting some PMs here, since that is now apparently acceptable. Might want to reconsider your comments. :cool:
Up until now, I've honored that unwritten rule that PMs are private. Which is more than some (one) here.

road kill
03-11-2011, 06:12 AM
Careful Stan. I'm thinking about re-posting some PMs here, since that is now apparently acceptable. Might want to reconsider your comments. :cool:
Up until now, I've honored that unwritten rule that PMs are private. Which is more than some (one) here.

Please do....prove what we already know about you.
I have a few I am sure yoiu would be real proud of.
Now that I think of it, since you have proven you have NO shame, it wouldn't bother you.

Pathetic.......


RK

dnf777
03-11-2011, 06:54 AM
Please do....prove what we already know about you.
I have a few I am sure yoiu would be real proud of.
Now that I think of it, since you have proven you have NO shame, it wouldn't bother you.

Pathetic.......


RK

Please put me on ignore. I have better thing to do with my time than be tempted to respond to your hormonal musings. Like plow my driveway.

Go play your basketball game thingy. That's a good use of your time.

caryalsobrook
03-11-2011, 07:35 AM
Careful Stan. I'm thinking about re-posting some PMs here, since that is now apparently acceptable. Might want to reconsider your comments. :cool:
Up until now, I've honored that unwritten rule that PMs are private. Which is more than some (one) here.

If you are going to send me a PM and you expect me to keep it private, you had better get my commitment first. If the so called rule is unwritten then don't expect me to follow it blindly. Rude personal attacks via PM's, I ignore but the one I posted was one I could not ignore.

caryalsobrook
03-11-2011, 07:39 AM
No need to wonder any longer, 10 years as a nurse and about 5 years as a paramedic prior to that. We do know what docs to call because we have a call schedule, but most do as I said before, spend more time on the phone trying to get out of coming in than it would have taken to just come in and admit the pt. Ortho is the worst. They always want to admit to medicine and consult after the pt has been cleared medically, which is bogus as heck.


And Dave, wasn't talking about what you have said since the thread got started. I was referring to what it sounded like you were trying to say in the PM. But heck, I could be wrong, Anyway, headed to Cheraw tomorrow to run a few dogs in Master series. Hope yall have a great weekend.

Ten years for a nurse in the ER is a long time and I wouldn't be surprised if you have been there longer than anyone. Stamina you certainly have:)

road kill
03-11-2011, 07:54 AM
Please put me on ignore. I have better thing to do with my time than be tempted to respond to your hormonal musings. Like plow my driveway.

Go play your basketball game thingy. That's a good use of your time.

No....please post these pm's, we are all waiting!!:D

"I'll give you that you are consistent.

Post after post crying out for attention, laced with personal insults and concocted anecdotes and the propensity for the over use of personal pro-nouns.

By a poster that doesn't have the kahones to walk to the line................"


RK