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Nate_C
03-16-2011, 03:16 PM
A new study by Lawrence Mishel and Heidi Shierholz of the Economic Policy Institute, found that productivity grew by a whopping 62.5 percent between 1989 and 2010, but that real hourly wages increased by just 12 percent over the same period. That suggests that companies are giving far more of their profits to shareholders, and far less to workers. Indeed, corporate profits are 22 percent above where they were before the recession. In addition A chief executive officer of a S&P 500 index company was paid an average $9.25 million in total compensation in 2010, or 180 times that of a average worker (not including other C-Level executives and board members), a increase over the 40 time disparity in 1970.

I am curious what is the Tea Party / Conservative solution to this issue is. Is it not a problem?

huntinman
03-16-2011, 03:20 PM
I doubt if the average worker is producing that much more. A lot of the increase in production is probably from modernization and automation in the workplace over that time period. Computers??

Franco
03-16-2011, 04:35 PM
Up 22% since which recession?

2008?

We've had record corporate bankruptcies since 2008.

HPL
03-16-2011, 04:56 PM
What is the "Economic Policy Institute?"

Nate_C
03-16-2011, 04:57 PM
Well sure, but that can be said of most productivity changes since the early 1800's. The tools workers have make them more productive. However do CEO design, install, customize, run or update those tools. No that's what the workers do. Just like machinery did in the 1800's. So why is the income gap growing again?

Most people on the right are against wealth redistribution, not very pro union, want corp tax rates dropped...ect.. These policies certinly don't help to reduce wage disparity. Many ascribe to trickle down type beliefs which have not been working over the past 25 years either. Solid blue collar and lower level white collar jobs are being lost and replaced with service worker jobs paying much less.

I was interested in getting the view point of those on the far edges of the right on whether or not this was a problem and if so what to do about it.

Buzz
03-16-2011, 05:02 PM
If they aren't getting funding from the Koch Brothers, then it's best to just ignore them.;-)





I was interested in getting the view point of those on the far edges of the right on whether or not this was a problem and if so what to do about it.


Boy did you come to the right place!

Franco
03-16-2011, 05:33 PM
I was interested in getting the view point of those on the far edges of the right on whether or not this was a problem and if so what to do about it.


Well, that leaves me out.

But, I will add that with many industries having been consolidated, with growing pressure on CEO's to deliver to the bottom line in order to receive thier bonuses in publicly held companies. It is usually the entry level and mid-managers that suffer the most in job consolidation and pay.

Once we stop letting Wall St run the Federal Reserve(or better yet, dissolve the Fed) and huge corporations write the antitrust laws, we may see better pay for the mules. ;-)

BrianW
03-16-2011, 05:44 PM
If they aren't getting funding from the Koch Brothers, then it's best to just ignore them.;-)

Boy did you come to the right place!
well the BOD includes presidents AFL-CIO, AFSCME, IAMAW, AFT, CWA, USWA so I'm sure they're very impartial.

Cody Covey
03-16-2011, 06:33 PM
Well sure, but that can be said of most productivity changes since the early 1800's. The tools workers have make them more productive. However do CEO design, install, customize, run or update those tools. No that's what the workers do. Just like machinery did in the 1800's. So why is the income gap growing again?

Most people on the right are against wealth redistribution, not very pro union, want corp tax rates dropped...ect.. These policies certinly don't help to reduce wage disparity. Many ascribe to trickle down type beliefs which have not been working over the past 25 years either. Solid blue collar and lower level white collar jobs are being lost and replaced with service worker jobs paying much less.

I was interested in getting the view point of those on the far edges of the right on whether or not this was a problem and if so what to do about it.
Do you propose trickle up economics?

dnf777
03-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Well sure, but that can be said of most productivity changes since the early 1800's. The tools workers have make them more productive. However do CEO design, install, customize, run or update those tools. No that's what the workers do. Just like machinery did in the 1800's. So why is the income gap growing again?

Most people on the right are against wealth redistribution, not very pro union, want corp tax rates dropped...ect.. These policies certinly don't help to reduce wage disparity. Many ascribe to trickle down type beliefs which have not been working over the past 25 years either. Solid blue collar and lower level white collar jobs are being lost and replaced with service worker jobs paying much less.

I was interested in getting the view point of those on the far edges of the right on whether or not this was a problem and if so what to do about it.

Great question Nate. I'm interested in the answers also. The times this country has seen its greatest prosperity also happen to coincide with some of the smaller CEO/Worker disparity periods. Our worst economic times, like now, have coincided with the largest disparity.

Redistribution of wealth is only a "good thing" when its taking wages and benefits away from working class Americans, and giving it to corporations and the elite in the form of tax breaks, which historically have NOT resulted in job creation, just wealth creation for those on the receiving end.

Let's see what the RW response is. I'm very interested to see if they think 200x pay scales for CEOs who off-shore American jobs is ok.

subroc
03-16-2011, 08:25 PM
I am a right down the middle centrist. I expect a leftwing radical like you believes this is a scandal of epic proportion and a solution similar to what Lenin did is just what is needed to right this wrong. Hugo Chavez has a solution down there in Venezuela right now. He is nationalizing virtually everything. I also believe he has anointed himself Supreme Being or some such.

It appears obama thought about it but stopped short at GM, I mean government motors, and the health care industry. He still may anoint himself Supreme Being though, but he would need to get of the golf course to make some time.


The rich is the boogie man…boo

Class warfare sucks.

you ask the righties what they would do, what would you do as a lefty?

BTW, you haven’t convinced this centrist there is a problem.

Franco
03-16-2011, 08:28 PM
Great question Nate. I'm interested in the answers also. The times this country has seen its greatest prosperity also happen to coincide with some of the smaller CEO/Worker disparity periods. Our worst economic times, like now, have coincided with the largest disparity.

Redistribution of wealth is only a "good thing" when its taking wages and benefits away from working class Americans, and giving it to corporations and the elite in the form of tax breaks, which historically have NOT resulted in job creation, just wealth creation for those on the receiving end.

Let's see what the RW response is. I'm very interested to see if they think 200x pay scales for CEOs who off-shore American jobs is ok.

Our country's greatest period of prosperty was after WW2. From 1946 - 1960, when we had half the population, 150 million and not the 300 plus million today. That accounts for most of those "poor" folks.

We were able to mfg because domestic demand for USA products was high and labor was still affordable.

USA quality began to fall in the 1960's, ie domestic autos, electronics, etc. And, foreign labor was more willing so, it went offshore.

I wouldn't blame a CEO or anyone else tring to make an honest buck as most of them do. The reality is that corporations can't afford to pay labor in the USA, unless we want to bring in more illegals.

Do you think the world's largest retailer, Walmart, could afford to make thier products here and still be competitive?

subroc
03-16-2011, 08:35 PM
...Do you think the world's largest retailer, Walmart, could afford to make thier products here and still be competitive?

Careful Franco, just the mere mention of the name Walmart sends lefties into a foaming at the mouth frenzy screaming about unfair labor practices, the end of the mom and pop store and possibly the end of civilization itself...

JDogger
03-16-2011, 08:36 PM
I am a right down the middle centrist. I expect a leftwing radical like you believes this is a scandal of epic proportion and a solution similar to what Lenin did is just what is needed to right this wrong. Hugo Chavez has a solution down there in Venezuela right now. He is nationalizing virtually everything. I also believe he has anointed himself Supreme Being or some such.

It appears obama thought about it but stopped short at GM, I mean government motors, and the health care industry. He still may anoint himself Supreme Being though, but he would need to get of the golf course to make some time.


The rich is the boogie man…boo

Class warfare sucks.

you ask the righties what they would do, what would you do as a lefty?

BTW, you haven’t convinced this centrist there is a problem.



RK take note. Joe Miano identifies himself as 'centrist'. So does Dave Ferraro. Kinda leaves one in a quandry...don't it? I mean geez. JD

subroc
03-16-2011, 08:38 PM
:D chuckling :D

right down the middle!

Franco
03-16-2011, 08:49 PM
Careful Franco, just the mere mention of the name Walmart sends lefties into a foaming at the mouth frenzy screaming about unfair labor practices, the end of the mom and pop store and possibly the end of civilization itself...



OK;-)

Then, lets look at GM and Chrysler compared to those suppressed overworked underpaid Asian auto workers. They've killed the UAW is making passenger autos that people will buy. Other tham heavy duty trucks, the only way Detroit can sell a vehicle is because they are cheaper to purchase. Yet, there are more import passenger vehicles(cars) on the road than domestic! What does that tell ya?

I bet Michelle and Barry were driving foreign autos when he was a Community Organgrinder. :)

The most worrisome is the loss of high tech jobs. Who wants to live and work in that industry in you live on the upper east caost or west coast? Municiple, State, Federal and Sales and other gov taxes ie vice, gas, bonuses tax rate, where government can keep thier hand in your pocket is what this current administration is about. If the middle class didn't have the upper class to work with, there would be no class in the USA!

dnf777
03-16-2011, 08:55 PM
:D chuckling :D

right down the middle!

I average somewhere near the middle...probably a little left of center. (at least by the graphic test we all took a while ago)

I am not "centrist" on many issues, rather to the left on some, and to the right on others. I prefer "independent" over "centrist", as independent implies that one is not beholden to any one brand of ideology.

Subroc, I hear and at least partially agree with your comments. No, I do not like walmart, but yes, I picked up a brick of 22s there today. I much prefer to spend my money at mom&pop stores, but the fact is, there's just not than many around anymore, and its not even the higher prices, but rather the limited inventory that turns me away often.

Thomas Freidman's The World is Flat, talks about this and presents some very interesting dilemmas for our American economy and way of life. I think with a flattening globe, (his words) it is inevitable that our standard of living will normalize somewhat lower than we're used to.

road kill
03-16-2011, 08:57 PM
RK take note. Joe Miano identifies himself as 'centrist'. So does Dave Ferraro. Kinda leaves one in a quandry...don't it? I mean geez. JD

uhhhhh......NO, not really.:D



RK

Nate_C
03-16-2011, 08:58 PM
I am a right down the middle centrist. I expect a leftwing radical like you believes this is a scandal of epic proportion and a solution similar to what Lenin did is just what is needed to right this wrong. Hugo Chavez has a solution down there in Venezuela right now. He is nationalizing virtually everything. I also believe he has anointed himself Supreme Being or some such.

It appears obama thought about it but stopped short at GM, I mean government motors, and the health care industry. He still may anoint himself Supreme Being though, but he would need to get of the golf course to make some time.


The rich is the boogie man…boo

Class warfare sucks.

you ask the righties what they would do, what would you do as a lefty?

BTW, you haven’t convinced this centrist there is a problem.



Were you saying I am a leftwing radical? Far from it. I am a moderate. I think it is funny though. When you ask a fair policy question to the far right the anwser is always "Obama Sucks". By the way everyone is already convinced of the problem. It is right in front of you. Our current recession. See the market is back and stablized. This the real economy now without a bubble to prop us up. In 2 years we will be lucky to be down to 7% unemployment with almost no wage growth.

subroc
03-16-2011, 09:00 PM
all right, a well thought out answer.

I don't know or believe there is a problem. You appear to believe there is. What is your solution?

Franco
03-16-2011, 09:11 PM
Were you saying I am a leftwing radical? Far from it. I am a moderate. I think it is funny though. When you ask a fair policy question to the far right the anwser is always "Obama Sucks". By the way everyone is already convinced of the problem. It is right in front of you. Our current recession. See the market is back and stablized. This the real economy now without a bubble to prop us up. In 2 years we will be lucky to be down to 7% unemployment with almost no wage growth.

Think so?

Wall St is happy just as long as Timmy keeps printing dollars.

The market and markets are far from stabilized.

Hell, we can't even audit the Fed. What is it this transparent administration doesn't want us to see?

JDogger
03-16-2011, 09:16 PM
Looks like everybody here is centrist/independent/MOR.

You would think we would find more concensus (sp)

Not likely...JD