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road kill
03-21-2011, 04:01 PM
Do Americans really want speniding cuts and a balanced budget??

It seems like everyone wants spending cuts until someone cuts spending?


Just askin'.........


RK

Buzz
03-21-2011, 04:21 PM
I think too many Americans think you can balance the budgets by cutting foreign aid and waste, fraud, & abuse. Then they are shocked to find out that cutting spending means cutting things that they support.

BonMallari
03-21-2011, 05:16 PM
I think too many Americans think you can balance the budgets by cutting foreign aid and waste, fraud, & abuse. Then they are shocked to find out that cutting spending means cutting things that they support.

EXACTLY.....;)

Roger Perry
03-21-2011, 05:24 PM
I think too many Americans think you can balance the budgets by cutting foreign aid and waste, fraud, & abuse. Then they are shocked to find out that cutting spending means cutting things that they support.
Not only what they support but once they find out it affects them adversly they hollar like a stuck pig.;-)

Gerry Clinchy
03-21-2011, 05:27 PM
I think that special interest groups hype the significance of the spending cuts proposed. Recently, Pres of Penn State made it sound like Corbett's proposed budget would devastate public higher learning. The truth? PS's own assessment is that many of their present buildings are under-utilized, yet they want to build more of them?

We've seen several instances brought to light where programs get duplicated. That means there are separate bureaucrats employed with each program. One bureaucratic entity can be eliminated without eliminating any "benefit".

I can easily imagine that a little-known program simply gets "forgotten", and another is made into law to provide for the same need. Then there are two programs that are supposed to do the same thing. Right hand not knowing what left hand is doing?

Happens in the private sector, too ... but the private sector has a reason to uncover waste. Thus far govt never has been motivated to do so.

BonMallari
03-21-2011, 05:50 PM
the way that funding is cloaked in defense bills and other entitlement programs it is very difficult to slash certain programs without touching those that have always been hands off

Franco
03-21-2011, 06:29 PM
Do Americans really want speniding cuts and a balanced budget??

It seems like everyone wants spending cuts until someone cuts spending?


Just askin'.........


RK

I do and I won't complain no matter what they cut. They can cut Coastal Restoration if they want, thought the Fed Gov caused it because they had the money to spend and needed projects.

Since the beginning of 09 we have been growing the Fed Gov my 9,000 employees per month! The union loves it.

If we could just control the size of the wasteful Fed Gov by 50% we could balance the budget.

I've gone on record here at RTF of which agencies and programs could be elimnated completely.

Problem is that there is lots of waste created by both parties and there's the rub! Neither party members are willing to cut programs that benefits party members districts.

Most condem the Democrats on this forum. Reality is that both parties are dysfunctional in regards to spending. Since the mid-term elections, what's been cut? The Republicans are going after the abortion portion of Family Planning and they are after NPR! Woo whoo, big f'en deal!

road kill
03-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Not only what they support but once they find out it affects them adversly they hollar like a stuck pig.;-)

That's just what "middle of the road independents" do when they don't get their way!!!:D


RK

Roger Perry
03-21-2011, 07:28 PM
That's just what "middle of the road independents" do when they don't get their way!!!:D


RK

But the Republicans want to make cuts to the have nots and give the rich all the tax breaks when 10 percent of the american workers are out of work and not paying taxes.;-)

Franco
03-22-2011, 12:01 PM
But the Republicans want to make cuts to the have nots and give the rich all the tax breaks when 10 percent of the american workers are out of work and not paying taxes.;-)

Typical Liberal point of view.

The American tax payer already pays too much in taxes.

Politicians just can waste enough money is the problem. The more they tax, the more they waste in buying votes. I say cut taxes by 50% across the board and shrink the size of the Federal Gov!

Buzz
03-22-2011, 01:10 PM
Typical Liberal point of view.




In Michigan we are seeing the typical conservative point of view in action. Cut taxes on business. Leave taxes on folks that high incomes alone. Hike taxes on retiree pensions and on the poor.

Just can't make this stuff up. The republican legislature fought the previous Democratic Gov tooth and nail against any and I mean ANY increase in taxes to help close the deficit. Put a republican in there, done deal, as long as he leaves the wealthy alone.

dnf777
03-22-2011, 01:36 PM
I think cuts would be much better tolerated if people felt that the pain was being shared by ALL Americans, not just the working class. When you hear first business is to cut corporate taxes, then go after wages/benes of workers, people start to holler.

Franco
03-22-2011, 01:55 PM
In Michigan we are seeing the typical conservative point of view in action. Cut taxes on business. Leave taxes on folks that high incomes alone. Hike taxes on retiree pensions and on the poor.

Just can't make this stuff up. The republican legislature fought the previous Democratic Gov tooth and nail against any and I mean ANY increase in taxes to help close the deficit. Put a republican in there, done deal, as long as he leaves the wealthy alone.

Michigan's economic problems are caused by the unions. Industry has fled the state and so have most of thier brightest and youngest because of the unions.

Taxes are not the answer.

maxx.goodwin
03-22-2011, 02:01 PM
The problem with all these budget cuts. Well there are a few. First of all they're laying off teachers and firefighters. Ok yeah sure I suppose that Kind of helps spend less money. but you're getting rid of a valuable resource.

If they would try having the teachers teach more students at less desks. Use less lighting and electric. Make janitors do more cleaning in less time. Don't lay people off. We just spend more on unemployment then.

cut the budget yes. by doing more with less.

Just my two cents

Buzz
03-22-2011, 02:02 PM
Michigan's economic problems are caused by the unions. Industry has fled the state and so have most of thier brightest and youngest because of the unions.

Taxes are not the answer.

Nice change of subject.

If your a Michigan republican, apparently the solution IS taxes, as long as it's on the retiree pensions and on the poor.

Buzz
03-22-2011, 02:06 PM
The problem with all these budget cuts. Well there are a few. First of all they're laying off teachers and firefighters.

Just my two cents

Here in Brookings the teachers aren't waiting around. There was a front page article in the paper this week saying that there is a flood of early retirements among teachers in the district.

Franco
03-22-2011, 02:12 PM
Nice change of subject.

If your a Michigan republican, apparently the solution IS taxes, as long as it's on the retiree pensions and on the poor.

I didn't change the subject.

The Top 10% are taxed enough and more taxes is not the solution.

If Michigan wants to prosper they will have to change or the productive will continue to leave.

Major corporations don't even consider Michigan because of thier buisness climate.

Look at Arkansas, they are giving everyone a tax break with their surplus of money. The unions have no power there.

Uncle Bill
03-22-2011, 02:12 PM
In Michigan we are seeing the typical conservative point of view in action. Cut taxes on business. Leave taxes on folks that high incomes alone. Hike taxes on retiree pensions and on the poor.

Just can't make this stuff up. The republican legislature fought the previous Democratic Gov tooth and nail against any and I mean ANY increase in taxes to help close the deficit. Put a republican in there, done deal, as long as he leaves the wealthy alone.

If you think the "wealthy" are electing the legislature, you are as empty headed as your other liberal clowns.

Keep editing, Buzz. You might just stumble on the real reason your legislature got turned over...just like Wisconsins.

HOW DID THE PROBLEM ORIGINATE???? It was far more than the "wealthy" that realized the present government was ruining the state.

As I've always stated, nobody pays any attention until THEIR OX starts getting gored. That might include the lower 50% of the population...THE POOR..that haven't paid a dime to support the nation for years.

That's your kind of people...too bad they are so ignorant they don't even understand they have to get off their lazy asses and at least vote in the leaders that continue to provide their handouts.

Elections have consequences, as the public unions in Wisconsin are discovering. Similar to what the TEA partiers discovered when the Obama regime got elected and starting to impose their laws on real Americans.

UB

Roger Perry
03-22-2011, 04:06 PM
I didn't change the subject.

The Top 10% are taxed enough and more taxes is not the solution.

If Michigan wants to prosper they will have to change or the productive will continue to leave.

Major corporations don't even consider Michigan because of thier buisness climate.

Look at Arkansas, they are giving everyone a tax break with their surplus of money. The unions have no power there.

That is when there should be tax cuts for all when there is a surplus not when States are in debt or in the case of the U.S. not during a war(s) or not when we have a major deficit..

cotts135
03-22-2011, 04:09 PM
I think too many Americans think you can balance the budgets by cutting foreign aid and waste, fraud, & abuse. Then they are shocked to find out that cutting spending means cutting things that they support.
And RAISING taxes. Without taking into account the revenue side of the ledger your only going half way.

IowaBayDog
03-22-2011, 04:19 PM
And RAISING taxes. Without taking into account the revenue side of the ledger your only going half way.


I agree that bottom 50% that has been paying Zero and Negative taxes (EIC) for years needs to start paying their fair share.

Michigan has been under Dem and Union rule for many years, blaming the current adminstration for their problems is ridiculous. Couldn't get any worse than what Jenny did to my home state.

cotts135
03-22-2011, 04:24 PM
If you think the "wealthy" are electing the legislature, you are as empty headed as your other liberal clowns.

Keep editing, Buzz. You might just stumble on the real reason your legislature got turned over...just like Wisconsins.

HOW DID THE PROBLEM ORIGINATE???? It was far more than the "wealthy" that realized the present government was ruining the state.

As I've always stated, nobody pays any attention until THEIR OX starts getting gored. That might include the lower 50% of the population...THE POOR..that haven't paid a dime to support the nation for years.

That's your kind of people...too bad they are so ignorant they don't even understand they have to get off their lazy asses and at least vote in the leaders that continue to provide their handouts.

Elections have consequences, as the public unions in Wisconsin are discovering. Similar to what the TEA partiers discovered when the Obama regime got elected and starting to impose their laws on real Americans.

UB

Do me a favor would you? When filing out your Federal Taxes this year when it comes time to deduct the standard deduction from your gross income, don't bother or if you itemize do the same. I mean your always so concerned about how the poor don't pay any taxes.( which is total bs,) Well if you are married filing jointly this year the deduction is $11,400 I mean without being a hypocrite you ought really not take that deduction should you?

cotts135
03-22-2011, 04:53 PM
I agree that bottom 50% that has been paying Zero and Negative taxes (EIC) for years needs to start paying their fair share.


Unable to find that info. Could you show me where you got it from?

Hew
03-22-2011, 05:12 PM
Unable to find that info. Could you show me where you got it from?
You haven't looked very hard then. Or else you're planning to pick some nit about FICA withholdings, state tax, smoke tax, etc. Otherwise, he's right...nearly half the country doesn't pay a dime in Fed. income tax. And of those that don't pay, a goodly chunk of them get refunds for money they never paid in the first place...i.e. money was taken out of somebody's pocket and placed in the hand of someone else...LITERALLY.

cotts135
03-22-2011, 05:30 PM
You haven't looked very hard then. Or else you're planning to pick some nit about FICA withholdings, state tax, smoke tax, etc. Otherwise, he's right...nearly half the country doesn't pay a dime in Fed. income tax. And of those that don't pay, a goodly chunk of them get refunds for money they never paid in the first place...i.e. money was taken out of somebody's pocket and placed in the hand of someone else...LITERALLY.

Found it and your figures are fairly accurate, but as always There are different ways at looking at this. Here is one of those ways

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html

Hew
03-22-2011, 05:44 PM
Here is one of those ways

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html
Right...the way that picks the nit that there are other tax burdens besides Fed income tax. In re-reading IBD's post that you responded to, I suppose he wasn't entirely specific that he was referring to Fed income tax so that leaves you some wiggle room. ;-)

Welcome to the club, though. Paul Young's liberal world was shaken when he increduously discovered the same thing you just did. Now go tell all your other fellow libs. :p

luvmylabs23139
03-22-2011, 06:04 PM
[quote=IowaBayDog;772775


Unable to find that info. Could you show me where you got it from?

After I feeed dogs and stuff I'll search thru Potus for the 2010 IRS tax calculations all based off of the standard deduction and using the same gross income.
It shows how many people at 50K actually get a CHECK FROM THE REAL TAXPAYERS. THey have zero tax liabilty and get money from those who pay.
Gov't redistribution of wealth at its best. Totally disgusting. :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Marvin S
03-23-2011, 10:26 PM
If we could just control the size of the wasteful Fed Gov by 50% we could balance the budget.

I've gone on record here at RTF of which agencies and programs could be elimnated completely.

Problem is that there is lots of waste created by both parties and there's the rub! Neither party members are willing to cut programs that benefits party members districts.

So - I get this fund raiser from the tan man asking me to answer a push pull type of quiz. There is no room for one's opinion. That tells me it is going to be more of the same. As Gerry said those people (the pols) are treated too well.

In order for cuts to go through there is a need for a bullet proof majority which means 261 in the House, 60 in the Senate cause the POTUS has the veto pen.

But the Cato newsletter from a WSJ article listed a few - Return to 2009 baseline = 177 mil, back to 2007 = 374 bil, Repeal O Care = 898 bil over 10 years, cut the umbilical to Fannie & Freddie - ???????, Ethanol & unproven energy schemes = 170 bil over 10 years, Returning fed employment to 2008 levels = 35 bil, On the 10 year plan - Scrapping Depts of Commerce, HUD = 550 bil, ending farm subsidies = 290 bil, NASA by 50% = 90 bil, Davis-Bacon = 60 bil, mass transit grants = 52 bil, privatize Air Traffic Control = 38 bil, Privatize AmTrak = 31 bil, Reform Fed employee retirement = 18 bil, Shutter Americorps & SBA = 24 bil. Savings in defense ID'd by Gates 145 bil over 5 years. The list goes on but I think all get the message - Any you would disagree with?

It takes will - which I'm not sure is prevalent in DC :(. & they did not even mention Franco's & my favorites - the Depts of Ed & Energy which have contributed zilch since inception.

I live in a unique little city - though our population is 4354 over 400 are in an institution for the mentally challenged. A few years back the city fathers in a magnanimous move allowed reduced rates on city owned utilities of 50 & 30% to low income elderly, disabled & under earners . This cost the rest of the rate payers (about 1340 of them) an additional 80K per year collectively. This is an extortion those ratepayers had no voice in. Last night at the council meeting a proposal was presented to continue the program at 30 & 15% for the low income elderly & disabled, eliminating the subsidy in it's entirety for the under earners. The ensuing debate was priceless - a council member who has been on disability from the USPO for 4 years & just added another 2 to that (wonder why your stamps are so expensive?) argued against any change for over 10 minutes (guess who brought the subject up in committee originally), & the discussion went on for 40 minutes before a vote on the motion which fortunately passed 4-3.

The interesting fact is that those ratepayers subsidizing the under earners have to earn over 145K to cover the subsidy with all the fees tacked on to utilities. I can't wait for the alcohol & cigarette smell when those folks, the under earners, come to protest at the council meeting.

So it doesn't happen easily, feet have to be held to the fire, many elected have the same backbone as a jelly fish. Just look at WI, MSM which is decidedly left, says there will be repercussions to those elected officials. IMO, those people (the R's) didn't get where they are by being stupid, so they know their constituents. Though the journey may be brutal, as the PE Union thugs & their minions have much to lose, they actually might have to get a real job :).

Again RK, I want to donate to Walker's war chest. Let me know where it can be sent that will go directly into the system.