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road kill
03-30-2011, 04:32 PM
Obama Signed Secret Libya Order Authorizing Support For Rebels
First Posted: 03/30/11 04:21 PM ET Updated: 03/30/11 04:35 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, government officials told Reuters on Wednesday.

(SCROLL DOWN FOR LIVE UPDATES)

Obama signed the order, known as a presidential "finding", within the last two or three weeks, according to four U.S. government sources familiar with the matter.

Such findings are a principal form of presidential directive used to authorize secret operations by the Central Intelligence Agency. The CIA and the White House declined immediate comment.

News that Obama had given the authorization surfaced as the President and other U.S. and allied officials spoke openly about the possibility of sending arms supplies to Gaddafi's opponents, who are fighting better-equipped government forces.

The United States is part of a coalition, with NATO members and some Arab states, which is conducting air strikes on Libyan government forces under a U.N. mandate aimed at protecting civilians opposing Gaddafi.

In interviews with American TV networks on Tuesday, Obama said the objective was for Gaddafi to "ultimately step down" from power. He spoke of applying "steady pressure, not only militarily but also through these other means" to force Gaddafi out.

Obama said the U.S. had not ruled out providing military hardware to rebels. "It's fair to say that if we wanted to get weapons into Libya, we probably could. We're looking at all our options at this point," the President told ABC News anchor Diane Sawyer.

U.S. officials monitoring events in Libya say that at present, neither Gaddafi's forces nor the rebels, who have asked the West for heavy weapons, appear able to make decisive gains.

While U.S. and allied airstrikes have seriously damaged Gaddafi's military forces and disrupted his chain of command, officials say, rebel forces remain disorganized and unable to take full advantage of western military support.

SPECIFIC OPERATIONS

People familiar with U.S. intelligence procedures said that Presidential covert action "findings" are normally crafted to provide broad authorization for a range of potential U.S. government actions to support a particular covert objective.

In order for specific operations to be carried out under the provisions of such a broad authorization -- for example the delivery of cash or weapons to anti-Gaddafi forces -- the White House also would have to give additional "permission" allowing such activities to proceed.

Former officials say these follow-up authorizations are known in the intelligence world as "'Mother may I' findings."

In 2009 Obama gave a similar authorization for the expansion of covert U.S. counter-terrorism actions by the CIA in Yemen. The White House does not normally confirm such orders have been issued.

Because U.S. and allied intelligence agencies still have many questions about the identities and leadership of anti-Gaddafi forces, any covert U.S. activities are likely to proceed cautiously until more information about the rebels can be collected and analyzed, officials said.

"The whole issue on (providing rebels with) training and equipment requires knowing who the rebels are," said Bruce Riedel, a former senior CIA Middle East expert who has advised the Obama White House.

Riedel said that helping the rebels to organize themselves and training them how use weapons effectively would be more urgent then shipping them arms.

According to an article speculating on possible U.S. covert actions in Libya published early in March on the website of the Voice of America, the U.S. government's broadcasting service, a covert action is "any U.S. government effort to change the economic, military, or political situation overseas in a hidden way."ARMS SUPPLIES

The article, by VOA intelligence correspondent Gary Thomas, said covert action "can encompass many things, including propaganda, covert funding, electoral manipulation, arming and training insurgents, and even encouraging a coup."

U.S. officials also have said that Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whose leaders despise Gaddafi, have indicated a willingness to supply Libyan rebels with weapons.

Members of Congress have expressed anxiety about U.S. government activates in Libya. Some have recalled that weapons provided by the U.S. and Saudis to mujahedeen fighting Soviet occupation forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s later ended up in the hands of anti-American militants.

There are fears that the same thing could happen in Libya unless the U.S. is sure who it is dealing with. The chairman of the House intelligence committee, Rep. Mike Rogers, said on Wednesday he opposed supplying arms to the Libyan rebels fighting Gaddafi "at this time."

"We need to understand more about the opposition before I would support passing out guns and advanced weapons to them," Rogers said in a statement.

__________________________________________________ _______

This may well be the most transparent US Government ever, don't you think???;-)


RK

Gerry Clinchy
03-30-2011, 05:50 PM
If it was supposed to be "covert", guess it isn't anymore?

subroc
03-30-2011, 05:55 PM
So obama hasn't ruled out arming al qaeda, I mean the rebels.

Eric Johnson
03-30-2011, 06:40 PM
He is too "transparent"....

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0311/not_a_secret_anymore_a00ccd98-0d9e-4822-8936-168f3a51b959.html

http://tinyurl.com/4bnd8lc

"President Obama finally and quietly accepted his “transparency” award from the open government community this week — in a closed, undisclosed meeting at the White House on Monday.

The secret presentation happened almost two weeks after the White House inexplicably postponed the ceremony, which was expected to be open to the press pool."

-more-

Gerry Clinchy
03-30-2011, 06:48 PM
LOL! If they gave blue ribbons for "potential" at field trials, think how many FCs and AFCs we would have!

Roger Perry
03-30-2011, 07:12 PM
Obama Signed Secret Libya Order Authorizing Support For Rebels
First Posted: 03/30/11 04:21 PM ET Updated: 03/30/11 04:35 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, government officials told Reuters on Wednesday.

(SCROLL DOWN FOR LIVE UPDATES)

Obama signed the order, known as a presidential "finding", within the last two or three weeks, according to four U.S. government sources familiar with the matter.

Such findings are a principal form of presidential directive used to authorize secret operations by the Central Intelligence Agency. The CIA and the White House declined immediate comment.

News that Obama had given the authorization surfaced as the President and other U.S. and allied officials spoke openly about the possibility of sending arms supplies to Gaddafi's opponents, who are fighting better-equipped government forces.

The United States is part of a coalition, with NATO members and some Arab states, which is conducting air strikes on Libyan government forces under a U.N. mandate aimed at protecting civilians opposing Gaddafi.

In interviews with American TV networks on Tuesday, Obama said the objective was for Gaddafi to "ultimately step down" from power. He spoke of applying "steady pressure, not only militarily but also through these other means" to force Gaddafi out.

Obama said the U.S. had not ruled out providing military hardware to rebels. "It's fair to say that if we wanted to get weapons into Libya, we probably could. We're looking at all our options at this point," the President told ABC News anchor Diane Sawyer.

U.S. officials monitoring events in Libya say that at present, neither Gaddafi's forces nor the rebels, who have asked the West for heavy weapons, appear able to make decisive gains.

While U.S. and allied airstrikes have seriously damaged Gaddafi's military forces and disrupted his chain of command, officials say, rebel forces remain disorganized and unable to take full advantage of western military support.

SPECIFIC OPERATIONS

People familiar with U.S. intelligence procedures said that Presidential covert action "findings" are normally crafted to provide broad authorization for a range of potential U.S. government actions to support a particular covert objective.

In order for specific operations to be carried out under the provisions of such a broad authorization -- for example the delivery of cash or weapons to anti-Gaddafi forces -- the White House also would have to give additional "permission" allowing such activities to proceed.

Former officials say these follow-up authorizations are known in the intelligence world as "'Mother may I' findings."

In 2009 Obama gave a similar authorization for the expansion of covert U.S. counter-terrorism actions by the CIA in Yemen. The White House does not normally confirm such orders have been issued.

Because U.S. and allied intelligence agencies still have many questions about the identities and leadership of anti-Gaddafi forces, any covert U.S. activities are likely to proceed cautiously until more information about the rebels can be collected and analyzed, officials said.

"The whole issue on (providing rebels with) training and equipment requires knowing who the rebels are," said Bruce Riedel, a former senior CIA Middle East expert who has advised the Obama White House.

Riedel said that helping the rebels to organize themselves and training them how use weapons effectively would be more urgent then shipping them arms.

According to an article speculating on possible U.S. covert actions in Libya published early in March on the website of the Voice of America, the U.S. government's broadcasting service, a covert action is "any U.S. government effort to change the economic, military, or political situation overseas in a hidden way."ARMS SUPPLIES

The article, by VOA intelligence correspondent Gary Thomas, said covert action "can encompass many things, including propaganda, covert funding, electoral manipulation, arming and training insurgents, and even encouraging a coup."

U.S. officials also have said that Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whose leaders despise Gaddafi, have indicated a willingness to supply Libyan rebels with weapons.

Members of Congress have expressed anxiety about U.S. government activates in Libya. Some have recalled that weapons provided by the U.S. and Saudis to mujahedeen fighting Soviet occupation forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s later ended up in the hands of anti-American militants.

There are fears that the same thing could happen in Libya unless the U.S. is sure who it is dealing with. The chairman of the House intelligence committee, Rep. Mike Rogers, said on Wednesday he opposed supplying arms to the Libyan rebels fighting Gaddafi "at this time."

"We need to understand more about the opposition before I would support passing out guns and advanced weapons to them," Rogers said in a statement.

__________________________________________________ _______

This may well be the most transparent US Government ever, don't you think???;-)


RK

It has a long way to go to catch up to the previous administration in the secret department. Anyone remember the number of times Bush43 claimed "Executive Privilege"???????????

badbullgator
03-30-2011, 07:21 PM
It has a long way to go to catch up to the previous administration in the secret department. Anyone remember the number of times Bush43 claimed "Executive Privilege"???????????


And even if he has or does Rodger will never forget.........
I still think he has a man crush on Bush

road kill
03-30-2011, 07:24 PM
It has a long way to go to catch up to the previous administration in the secret department. Anyone remember the number of times Bush43 claimed "Executive Privilege"???????????

Does that make it OK then???


HHhHHhhEEeeEEeeEESSssSssSstTttTTtTttAAaAaaAaarRrrR rrRrtTtTtTTtTTEEeEeeeeeeEEdDDdDdIIiIiiIiitTttTtt!! !!!!!:cry:

RK

caryalsobrook
03-30-2011, 08:08 PM
It has a long way to go to catch up to the previous administration in the secret department. Anyone remember the number of times Bush43 claimed "Executive Privilege"???????????

I blamed my Mother for spanking me when I was a child but I got over it before the age of 67

Roger Perry
03-30-2011, 08:23 PM
I blamed my Mother for spanking me when I was a child but I got over it before the age of 67

I am not seeing Obama claim executive privilege--------In the United States government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States), executive privilege is the power claimed by the President of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States) and other members of the executive branch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_(government)) to resist certain subpoenas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpoena) and other interventions by the legislative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislature) and judicial branches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judiciary) of government.

In other words, the President can break laws and then claim executive privilege to keep other branches of the government from going after the President who may have commited crimes or broke constitutional law which he took an oath to uphold.;-)

road kill
03-31-2011, 05:27 AM
Do we have "boots" on the ground in Libya or not??

If we do, then someone lied!!!


Just sayin'.........


RK

Roger Perry
03-31-2011, 06:48 AM
Do we have "boots" on the ground in Libya or not??

If we do, then someone lied!!!


Just sayin'.........


RK

RK, I can't believe you are naive enough not to believe that the United States would not have the CIA in Libya gathering intellegence information after all that is what they do.:rolleyes: You know, Central Intelegence Agency---- Regards

BrianW
03-31-2011, 07:31 AM
Do we have "boots" on the ground in Libya or not??

If we do, then someone lied!!!


Just sayin'.........


RK

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/af_libya
Also on Wednesday, an American official and former U.S. intelligence officer told The Associated Press that CIA operatives were sent to Libya this month after the agency's station in the capital was forced to close. CIA officers also assisted in rescuing one of two crew members of an F-15E Strike Eagle that crashed, they said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information.
...
Intelligence experts said the CIA operatives that were sent to Libya would have made contact with the opposition and assessed the rebel forces' strength and needs if Obama decided to arm them.

The New York Times first reported that the CIA had sent in operatives and that British operatives were directing airstrikes.

There were "unconfirmed reports" last week from one of these anonymous officials that many of the airstrikes can't be done without forward observers "lighting 'em up" with the laser designators. So whether or not they're uniformed Special Ops/SAS or CIA, there's heel marks in the dirt.

Speaking of boots on the ground, this story
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theenvoy/20110330/ts_yblog_theenvoy/can-the-libyan-rebels-win says that "The Egyptians really are already in there training (the rebels)," the former official said. She noted Egypt has made a point of keeping its role quiet--but that the United States is likely already aware of it.

Well isn't that weird?
The Egyptian President is removed from power with American "encouragement" & replaced with a military council in a coup d'etat shortly before a war, oops, "kinetic military action", with his neighbor country, in which his forces would be playing a key role in destabilizing that regime..

You think maybe Mubarak wasn't so keen on being the point man & the staging area for the incursion into Libya, ie. Saudi Arabia/Iraq ?

The lefties ought to be REALLY proud of PBO on that one, even Bush didn't pull that off!
I think this is going a bit further than "somebody lied".

road kill
03-31-2011, 07:49 AM
RK, I can't believe you are naive enough not to believe that the United States would not have the CIA in Libya gathering intellegence information after all that is what they do.:rolleyes: You know, Central Intelegence Agency---- Regards

Here is the funny part Roger, I am not, you are!!!
I don't beleive a word Obama says, you beleive anything he says!!:D

RK

Roger Perry
03-31-2011, 08:42 AM
Here is the funny part Roger, I am not, you are!!!
I don't beleive a word Obama says, you beleive anything he says!!:D

RK

Funny, I felt the same way about the Bush administration.;-)

road kill
03-31-2011, 08:47 AM
Funny, I felt the same way about the Bush administration.;-) Really?
Didn't he just say on tv "NO TROOPS??"

Now, mince words and argue semantics.

I can assure you, there are "Forward Air Control" people "painting" targets for the missles.:D
(Thanks guys for your service, good job!)

Any AF guys out there?
If so, can I get a witness?
Straight from someone that has done the job?


If your arguement is CIA people are not troops, are Air Force guys??


RK

Roger Perry
03-31-2011, 09:00 AM
Didn't he just say on tv "NO TROOPS??"

Now, mince words and argue semantics.

I can assure you, there are "Forward Air Control" people "painting" targets for the missles.:D
(Thanks guys for your service, good job!)

Any AF guys out there?
If so, can I get a witness?
Straight from someone that has done the job?


If your arguement is CIA people are not troops, are Air Force guys??


RK

So you are saying we have remote controlled drones in the air above Libya being controlled from somewhere like Colorado and these are your "forward air control people?"