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View Full Version : Both parties helped run up US $14 trillion debt



Roger Perry
04-14-2011, 01:09 PM
WASHINGTON Two centuries after America's birth, the national debt was a bit under $1 trillion when Ronald Reagan took office in 1981. Just three decades later, it has soared above $14 trillion, and accusations of blame are flying. Both Republicans and Democrats played major roles in driving the figure sky high.

Leaders of both parties acknowledge that failing to raise the limit could force the government to begin defaulting on some of its obligations for instance making interest payments on Treasury bills and bonds with severe adverse consequences, including possibly pushing the economy back into recession

Republicans like to blame Obama and congressional Democrats, citing heavy spending that they claim has done little to end the recession or create jobs. Democrats argue that the stage for fiscal ruin was set by Republican President George W. Bush, with large tax cuts that favored the wealthy, two wars and a vastly underfunded prescription drug program for the elderly. They accuse Bush of squandering a budget surplus handed him by President Bill Clinton.

In fact, spending far outpaced revenues in both the Bush and Obama years. And the main culprit in addition to war spending was the devastating 2007-2009 recession, which not only prompted hundreds of billions of dollars in downturn-fighting spending by both the Bush and Obama administrations, but also resulted in a sharp dip in tax revenues due to sagging individual and corporate incomes.

If there are no changes in government policies, the debt will soar to $18.76 trillion by 2014 and $20.8 trillion by 2016, according to administration projections.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42587471/ns/politics-more_politics/

Wow, that is pretty sobering statement.:shock:

dnf777
04-14-2011, 01:24 PM
WASHINGTON Two centuries after America's birth, the national debt was a bit under $1 trillion when Ronald Reagan took office in 1981. Just three decades later, it has soared above $14 trillion, and accusations of blame are flying. Both Republicans and Democrats played major roles in driving the figure sky high.

Leaders of both parties acknowledge that failing to raise the limit could force the government to begin defaulting on some of its obligations for instance making interest payments on Treasury bills and bonds with severe adverse consequences, including possibly pushing the economy back into recession

Republicans like to blame Obama and congressional Democrats, citing heavy spending that they claim has done little to end the recession or create jobs. Democrats argue that the stage for fiscal ruin was set by Republican President George W. Bush, with large tax cuts that favored the wealthy, two wars and a vastly underfunded prescription drug program for the elderly. They accuse Bush of squandering a budget surplus handed him by President Bill Clinton.

In fact, spending far outpaced revenues in both the Bush and Obama years. And the main culprit in addition to war spending was the devastating 2007-2009 recession, which not only prompted hundreds of billions of dollars in downturn-fighting spending by both the Bush and Obama administrations, but also resulted in a sharp dip in tax revenues due to sagging individual and corporate incomes.

If there are no changes in government policies, the debt will soar to $18.76 trillion by 2014 and $20.8 trillion by 2016, according to administration projections.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42587471/ns/politics-more_politics/

Wow, that is pretty sobering statement.:shock:

Geez Rog,
Gonna start calling you "Mr. Sunshine" if you keep that up. :(

I think we're all gonna have to lop off a pound of flesh to get out of this one. Not just NPR and PP! Defense, Medicare, and the tax man.

Reagan has to be grinning in his grave about now...hearing not only republicans, but democrats and those inbetween talking about diminishing medicare and other social programs.

Losthwy
04-14-2011, 04:09 PM
WASHINGTON Democrats argue that the stage for fiscal ruin was set by Republican President George W. Bush, with large tax cuts that favored the wealthy, two wars and a vastly underfunded prescription drug program for the elderly.


And the result after George W Bush's 8 years the debt increased 4.36 T, and the debt/GDP percentage increased 13.55 (average). He left office with a with the economy in the worse shape since the Great Depression and saddling the next president with cleaning up the mess.

Steve Hester
04-15-2011, 10:01 PM
And the result after George W Bush's 8 years the debt increased 4.36 T, and the debt/GDP percentage increased 13.55 (average). He left office with a with the economy in the worse shape since the Great Depression and saddling the next president with cleaning up the mess.

Yep, and the next President has done nothing to clean up the deficit. All he's done is make it much worse.:rolleyes:

JDogger
04-15-2011, 10:30 PM
Yep, and the next President has done nothing to clean up the deficit. All he's done is make it much worse.:rolleyes:

When the next, next Preident comes to be, will all be made right? Don't count on it. We have met the enemy and he is us. :( JD

Steve Hester
04-15-2011, 10:53 PM
When the next, next Preident comes to be, will all be made right? Don't count on it. We have met the enemy and he is us. :( JD

But, as it pertains to the deficit only, Obama has only substantially added to it.

Losthwy
04-15-2011, 10:54 PM
Yep, and the next President has done nothing to clean up the deficit. All he's done is make it much worse.:rolleyes:

We could argue about this for years and historians will do the same. Were the stimulus bills an absolute necessity? So forth. Many think Bush lead this country to the brink of another depression. Look at the numbers of when Bush took office- stock market, jobs, etc. and those numbers when he left. Companies too big to fail, Enron, etc, close to a financial meltdown. He left a mess. Check the current trend of the market and job creation. Worse or better?

Steve Hester
04-15-2011, 11:42 PM
For the amount of money spent, job "creation" has been insignificant. And the stock market is nothing more than a way to gauge the gamble of the day.

Nor_Cal_Angler
04-16-2011, 12:21 AM
We could argue about this for years and historians will do the same. Were the stimulus bills an absolute necessity? So forth. Many think Bush lead this country to the brink of another depression. Look at the numbers of when Bush took office- stock market, jobs, etc. and those numbers when he left. Companies too big to fail, Enron, etc, close to a financial meltdown. He left a mess. Check the current trend of the market and job creation. Worse or better?

Speaking to the first part of your logic...

Imagine if you will...NO 9/11
Do you think that hurt our nation or helped????

Speaking to the second...

Easy to talk upward trend when you are starting from a bottom...

NCA

zeus3925
04-16-2011, 08:47 AM
Going back to the 1950's I remember politicians trying to beat the national debt into votes. Only Clinton made any progress on reducing it. The rest just earmarked it to death.

Sue Kiefer
04-16-2011, 12:42 PM
I'm neither an economist nor am I a politician.
So I am asking the experts here.
How long do you think it would take to fix this deficit?
One 4yr. term by one President should be enough to fix the economy???
Seems the biggest problem is the politicians who all seem to have to be right and can't agree on squat.
Mean while the middle class continues to wait patiently for them to decide on something and again get stung in the shorts .
Tired of it all!!!:mad:
Sue

Marvin S
04-16-2011, 12:56 PM
I'm neither an economist nor am I a politician.
So I am asking the experts here.
How long do you think it would take to fix this deficit?
One 4yr. term by one President should be enough to fix the economy??? The answer is - someone competent would have been able to change direction, that has happened, just the wrong direction :( .
Seems the biggest problem is the politicians who all seem to have to be right and can't agree on squat.
Mean while the middle class continues to wait patiently for them to decide on something and again get stung in the shorts .
Tired of it all!!!:mad:
Sue

Doing the same thing & expecting a different result is not very smart. Only the same thing wasn't done, more baggage was added. Your byline says it quite well.

From experience - if one sets their mind to something, wonderful things happen :cool:.

Uncle Bill
04-16-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm neither an economist nor am I a politician.
So I am asking the experts here.
How long do you think it would take to fix this deficit?
One 4yr. term by one President should be enough to fix the economy???
Seems the biggest problem is the politicians who all seem to have to be right and can't agree on squat.
Mean while the middle class continues to wait patiently for them to decide on something and again get stung in the shorts .
Tired of it all!!!:mad:
Sue


I think you come from the perfect state to answer your questions. The 2010 elections moved your state into the R column for the first time in quite a while. They voted that way because they saw how Obama and his minions were destroying a nation that most Wisconsinites felt had to be stopped. They saw their state being saddled with debt their children and heirs couldn't recover from, and decided there had to be a change if there was to be any hope...kinda like what they mistakenly thought they were getting in the '08 election.

Then a funny thing happened...it was THEIR ox that was going to be gored in order for these changes to take effect. Now they got PO'd at those they elected to help keep the ship from sinking, and are full of vitriol towards those that were elected to do a job everyone knew needed to be done.

What is amusing about all this wishy-washy voter vacillation is that none of these sheeple seem to realize THEY are the ones that caused the problems, but don't seem to have the onions to resolve it. It's easy to talk the game of "yeh we all have to take some hits to get outa this mess", but when it comes down to it, most of these folks have been on the government teat so long they don't know how to be weaned off of it.

Doesn't matter if it's big government or big unionization...they are all promoters of "just keep those taxes/dues rolling in, and we'll take care of you all"...much like the Jesse Jackson policy for the blacks. "Keep voting for me, and we'll take care of you. No need to be responsible or take care of yourself, just pay for my services, and I'll get you everything you want."

You can see the fruits of that form of socialism in almost every ghetto and on practically every Indian reservation in the country, yet the people don't seem to understand that they are selling their liberty and freedom to these corrupt self-proclaimed leaders.

Rather than 'being tired of it all', Sue, it's time to get involved. Like most of us Tea Partiers, we got tired of turning the reins over to those that couldn't or wouldn't see we were on the brink of destruction. Time to clean house. Get representatives in those law-making positions that will be making those decisions based on what the people are asking them to do...and will at least listen to the voters for a 'change'.

Or, you can be complacent and the liberal/socialist government that was running Wisconsin into debt will return and run it into ruin. There's no more free lunches. Time to pay the piper..and whatever fancy cliche you can think of. But the fact is, MOST of the voters in 2010 saw their state in financial straits, and voted to get that corrected. When they found out HOW it got into that state of affairs, and how their newly elected representatives intended to reverse the trend, they had a tantrum...much like a little kid that was promised a toy, but found out the folks couldn't afford it, so he went on a rampage, throwing and breaking things to "get even".

These are turbulent times, Sue...not necessarily for the feint of heart. The 2012 election will be a true crossroads for this nation, and actually the world. The USA is such a force on this planet that what we do has incredible ramifications world-wide. We need to get our house in order and back to what the founders set us on course to do. We need to again learn to be a rugged individual, responsible for ourselves and family,...and to once again place far more importance on freedom and liberty, and get rid of all this political correctness that's causing our demise.

UB

Roger Perry
04-16-2011, 02:00 PM
October 13, 2008
The Bush administration plans to spend as much as $250 billion of the $700 billion bailout buying stock in private banks, greatly expanding protections for the U.S. financial system out of deep concern for the faltering economy, industry and government officials said Monday night. President Bush planned to announce the details Tuesday morning.
Agreement on the plan came after a remarkable Treasury Department meeting between top government economic officials and executives of the nation's largest banks to revamp the most costly financial rescue in the nation's history.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95679876

Bush was spending money like there was no tomorrow until the time he left office.

Obama has continued to spend money and sooner or later that needs to stop. But nickle and dimeing at partisin projects won't get it done. There is alot of waste and fraud in medicare and medicaid that we need to go after and stop. that would be one place to start. Another is looking at ear marks and weeding out the ones that are not absoutely necessary. I believe roads, highways and bridges should be of importance not paying farmers not to grow crops. There are other pork barrel projects that should be given the boot.

#10. Is a tie - $300,000 for the Iowa Orchestra & $106,000 for the Utah Symphony
#9. $1,500,000 for New England Multi-Species Surveys and Development in New Bedford, MA
#8. $300,000 for Groundfish research in Augusta, ME
#7 $500,000 for highly migratory shark fishery research program in San Jose, CA
#6. $2,500,000 for the Imiloa Astronomy Center in Honolulu, HI
#5. $425,000 to restore the Booneville Hardware Building in Booneville, MS - population 8,360!!
#4. $1 million to re-introduce upper floor housing in Des Moines, IA - what about the lower floor housing?
#3. $3 million for Chesapeake Bay Oyster restoration in Maryland.
#2. $500,000 for Blue Fin Tuna tagging and research in California
#1. $10,000,000 to the John P. Murtha Foundation

And I will bet there are thousands more that could be eliminated.

Roger Perry
04-16-2011, 02:06 PM
I think you come from the perfect state to answer your questions. The 2010 elections moved your state into the R column for the first time in quite a while. They voted that way because they saw how Obama and his minions were destroying a nation that most Wisconsinites felt had to be stopped. They saw their state being saddled with debt their children and heirs couldn't recover from, and decided there had to be a change if there was to be any hope...kinda like what they mistakenly thought they were getting in the '08 election.

Then a funny thing happened...it was THEIR ox that was going to be gored in order for these changes to take effect. Now they got PO'd at those they elected to help keep the ship from sinking, and are full of vitriol towards those that were elected to do a job everyone knew needed to be done.

What is amusing about all this wishy-washy voter vacillation is that none of these sheeple seem to realize THEY are the ones that caused the problems, but don't seem to have the onions to resolve it. It's easy to talk the game of "yeh we all have to take some hits to get outa this mess", but when it comes down to it, most of these folks have been on the government teat so long they don't know how to be weaned off of it.

Doesn't matter if it's big government or big unionization...they are all promoters of "just keep those taxes/dues rolling in, and we'll take care of you all"...much like the Jesse Jackson policy for the blacks. "Keep voting for me, and we'll take care of you. No need to be responsible or take care of yourself, just pay for my services, and I'll get you everything you want."

You can see the fruits of that form of socialism in almost every ghetto and on practically every Indian reservation in the country, yet the people don't seem to understand that they are selling their liberty and freedom to these corrupt self-proclaimed leaders.

Rather than 'being tired of it all', Sue, it's time to get involved. Like most of us Tea Partiers, we got tired of turning the reins over to those that couldn't or wouldn't see we were on the brink of destruction. Time to clean house. Get representatives in those law-making positions that will be making those decisions based on what the people are asking them to do...and will at least listen to the voters for a 'change'.

Or, you can be complacent and the liberal/socialist government that was running Wisconsin into debt will return and run it into ruin. There's no more free lunches. Time to pay the piper..and whatever fancy cliche you can think of. But the fact is, MOST of the voters in 2010 saw their state in financial straits, and voted to get that corrected. When they found out HOW it got into that state of affairs, and how their newly elected representatives intended to reverse the trend, they had a tantrum...much like a little kid that was promised a toy, but found out the folks couldn't afford it, so he went on a rampage, throwing and breaking things to "get even".

These are turbulent times, Sue...not necessarily for the feint of heart. The 2012 election will be a true crossroads for this nation, and actually the world. The USA is such a force on this planet that what we do has incredible ramifications world-wide. We need to get our house in order and back to what the founders set us on course to do. We need to again learn to be a rugged individual, responsible for ourselves and family,...and to once again place far more importance on freedom and liberty, and get rid of all this political correctness that's causing our demise.

UB

Yes UB, we all know that the liberals took us from a balanced budget to trillions in debt. If only McCain/Palin had gotten elected we would not be in the shape we find ourselves in now.:rolleyes:

huntinman
04-16-2011, 02:33 PM
Yes UB, we all know that the liberals took us from a balanced budget to trillions in debt. If only McCain/Palin had gotten elected we would not be in the shape we find ourselves in now.:rolleyes:

Most intelligent thing youv'e said in months.

Sue Kiefer
04-16-2011, 05:55 PM
MY least favorite sentence(from my town) is what I have taped to a coffeecan in my truck that I put a coin in whenever I hear this: " We've always done it this way in the past."
Really??
My own personal favorite sentence is a quote from Dr. Phil.
"How's that work'n for ya?"
Nobody likes to hear that:rolleyes:;-)
Sue
P.S.If you choose to quote my remarks ,please don't add to them.
Thanks!

road kill
04-16-2011, 05:58 PM
Personally, I don't much care who got us here, I am far more concerned with who will get us out of here!!!


RK