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Buzz
04-16-2011, 03:32 PM
I have only skimmed this, I'll probably read the whole thing tonight. But I wanted to post it up and get feedback from our neighborhood Wisconsinites. What particularly drew my attention was the economic growth in Wisconsin and the chart showing revenue as a percent of GDP there. It appears that middle class workers are frustrated there, and they may just have a good reason for it.

Enjoy, or not...


http://www.instituteforonewisconsin.org/reports/IOWtaxReport-WINotBroke2011.pdf

Marvin S
04-16-2011, 10:21 PM
I'm not a Badger but will comment anyway - it's the same stuff you read in any heavily unionized state. In WA the public sector (state & local) are paid 60% more than the private sector plus their cadillac benefits. The article you linked is the usual clap trap the public is given large doses of. But unfortunately for the overpaid, over benefitted underperforming those days may be coming to an end, to the benefit of the real worker.

At the state level there should be no corporate tax except their license to operate, a fee for the necessary services government specifically provided that business, nothing else.

The talk of regressive is incomprehensible - who uses the majority of government services? & they should pay for those services, through the nose if necessary.

road kill
04-17-2011, 06:14 AM
I have only skimmed this, I'll probably read the whole thing tonight. But I wanted to post it up and get feedback from our neighborhood Wisconsinites. What particularly drew my attention was the economic growth in Wisconsin and the chart showing revenue as a percent of GDP there. It appears that middle class workers are frustrated there, and they may just have a good reason for it.

Enjoy, or not...


http://www.instituteforonewisconsin.org/reports/IOWtaxReport-WINotBroke2011.pdf

I am beginning to realize that the progressives in America are fully convinced thay are on the right path.

It amazes them that there are so many that disagree.
So much so, that even after the people speak via elections etc. it boggles their mind.
So it ain't so!

But it is so.

You are correct, in WI the working class have had enough.....see the last 3 election results.

The liberal progressives have been shown the door.


As far as Walkers plan destroying WI........maybe we could wait until it is law for at least a couple days before we pass judgemnent from afar!!


Feel free to visit and same day register to vote in our next election, maybe you could hitch a ride on a union buss!!:D


"Of the people, by the people, for the people!!!"



RK

dnf777
04-17-2011, 08:11 AM
I am beginning to realize that the progressives in America are fully convinced thay are on the right path.

It amazes them that there are so many that disagree.

RK

And tea partiers don't???

And we see how united the right is, between main-line republicans, neo-cons, and tea-partyers. We've even seen Newt's marital history attacked by his own kind.

Come on Stan, this is all politics as usual. The primary season is like the rut season....everyone stands alone, and you'll hear plenty of antlers clashing.

Nothing here is surprising. Actually what IS surprising, is how Obama has remanined relatively unscathed, with no serious rumblings about a democratic challenge.

huntinman
04-17-2011, 09:50 AM
And tea partiers don't???

And we see how united the right is, between main-line republicans, neo-cons, and tea-partyers. We've even seen Newt's marital history attacked by his own kind.

Come on Stan, this is all politics as usual. The primary season is like the rut season....everyone stands alone, and you'll hear plenty of antlers clashing.

Nothing here is surprising. Actually what IS surprising, is how Obama has remanined relatively unscathed, with no serious rumblings about a democratic challenge.


No surprise here... the man sits back and never takes a stand. He lets everyone else make the tough decisions and fall on their swords (even his own Dems). If it works out well, he runs in and tries to claim credit.

The press, rather than the watchdog of old, are his lapdogs. They are already in Obama campaign mode.

Voting present regards.

dnf777
04-17-2011, 10:16 AM
No surprise here... the man sits back and never takes a stand. He lets everyone else make the tough decisions and fall on their swords (even his own Dems). If it works out well, he runs in and tries to claim credit.

The press, rather than the watchdog of old, are his lapdogs. They are already in Obama campaign mode.

Voting present regards.

Oh come on! Bush had the book "Lapdogs" written about his presidency, and kid-glove handling.

Birther coverage alone puts Obama almost in a class by himself. The man can't play golf without it being an international news story.

luvmylabs23139
04-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Oh come on! Bush had the book "Lapdogs" written about his presidency, and kid-glove handling.

Birther coverage alone puts Obama almost in a class by himself. The man can't play golf without it being an international news story.


Get a grip on reality. I checked CNN(communist news network) throughout the weekend for a report on OBAMA ignoring the deal they made on the 2011 budget and signing himself a personal overide of congress about his CZARS.
NOT ONE WORD.
THe man bypasses congress and the contsitution at every turn and the lame stream media ignores it.
Just imagine if Bush had done that.
THe lame stream would be screaming for impeachment.
The man thinks he is above the law.

dnf777
04-17-2011, 01:32 PM
Get a grip on reality. I checked CNN(communist news network) throughout the weekend for a report on OBAMA ignoring the deal they made on the 2011 budget and signing himself a personal overide of congress about his CZARS.
NOT ONE WORD.
THe man bypasses congress and the contsitution at every turn and the lame stream media ignores it.
Just imagine if Bush had done that.
THe lame stream would be screaming for impeachment.
The man thinks he is above the law.

Don't have to imagine.

Gee, I thought the bill he signed was delivered BY CONGRESS???

That's how it works here.

luvmylabs23139
04-17-2011, 03:50 PM
Don't have to imagine.

Gee, I thought the bill he signed was delivered BY CONGRESS???

That's how it works here.


Pay attention. BUmma signed the bill delivered by congress that got rid of some of his Czars. He then turned around and wrote and signed a presidential decree reinstating those Czars without congressional aproval.

dnf777
04-17-2011, 04:33 PM
Pay attention. BUmma signed the bill delivered by congress that got rid of some of his Czars. He then turned around and wrote and signed a presidential decree reinstating those Czars without congressional aproval.

Normal operating procedure.

Previous administrations had made use of signing statements to dispute the validity of a new law or its individual components. George H. W. Bush challenged 232 statutes through signing statements during four years in office and Clinton challenged 140 over eight years. George W. Bush's 130 signing statements contain at least 1,100 challenges.

Had I heard complaints about past administrations, it would lend credence to your current purely partisan complaints.

ps...I'm assuming "BUmma" refers to President Obama?

road kill
04-17-2011, 06:23 PM
And tea partiers don't???

And we see how united the right is, between main-line republicans, neo-cons, and tea-partyers. We've even seen Newt's marital history attacked by his own kind.

Come on Stan, this is all politics as usual. The primary season is like the rut season....everyone stands alone, and you'll hear plenty of antlers clashing.

Nothing here is surprising. Actually what IS surprising, is how Obama has remanined relatively unscathed, with no serious rumblings about a democratic challenge.

In WI the right is united.
We want the Government to stop spending money we don't have on crap we don't need!!

Walker is an American hero!!!


RK

Buzz
04-17-2011, 10:59 PM
I am beginning to realize that the progressives in America are fully convinced thay are on the right path.

It amazes them that there are so many that disagree.
So much so, that even after the people speak via elections etc. it boggles their mind.
So it ain't so!

But it is so.

You are correct, in WI the working class have had enough.....see the last 3 election results.

The liberal progressives have been shown the door.


As far as Walkers plan destroying WI........maybe we could wait until it is law for at least a couple days before we pass judgemnent from afar!!


Feel free to visit and same day register to vote in our next election, maybe you could hitch a ride on a union buss!!:D


"Of the people, by the people, for the people!!!"



RK


Never mind. It's clear that the only one that even likely took a look at the link I posted was Marvin.

Marvin S
04-17-2011, 11:51 PM
Never mind. It's clear that the only one that even likely took a look at the link I posted was Marvin.

Buzz, I read everything until someone proves themselves unworthy of that consideration, that's why I call it clap-trap. I've also experienced a lot of different scenario's through our life's experiences & those of my son's who are all independent business people, with the exception of one.

The people who write that stuff have a secure position so they feel their point of view is worthy. Try starting a business from scratch as we did & 3 of our son's have, you will have an entirely different view of our world. In our case we paid a business tax for 15 years before their was a flicker of profit. By choice one of our son's works 16 hours a day, 7 days a week drawing no salary doing what he wants to do. The government is there with their hand out immediately, & because he makes a food product they are looking over his shoulder constantly. He will eventually do very well, but then he'll be one of those guys who paid his own way through college, worked for others for experience & now is doing it his way, sans salary. But you & others believe all that money should go into the pockets of those who take no risk. I can understand that from some, I just can't understand it from you?

They don't treat the big guys that way, just the little guys as the big guys want the little guys shut down.

road kill
04-18-2011, 06:15 AM
Never mind. It's clear that the only one that even likely took a look at the link I posted was Marvin.

Is it???

Really??

You read minds???


Wisconsin's budget problem is tethered to the overarching problem facing Wisconsin and the rest of the country: Wealth and income leaving the middle class and going to the super wealthy. When we overlay Wisconsin's tax policy, which relies primarily on the middle class to raise revenue and pay the bills, we find ourselves with a budget shortfall especially in the midst of an economic recession that has mainly affected the middle class, and not the wealthy.

Maybe both you and your bogus, slanted, biased "paper" are consumed by class envy.


"Nothing happens until the sale is made.":D


RK

Hew
04-18-2011, 06:58 AM
Never mind. It's clear that the only one that even likely took a look at the link I posted was Marvin.
Yeah, what's with all you dim bulbs?!? The nerve of you people not to read Buzz's 20 page propaganda piece written by ex-DNC flacks and admittedly not read by Buzz, either.

I'm sure if any of you had posted a lengthy Limbaugh article titled, "Obama's Failed Economic Policies" and admitted that you hadn't read it yourself that Buzz would have dropped everthing to get analyzin'.

Buzz
04-18-2011, 09:35 AM
Yeah, what's with all you dim bulbs?!? The nerve of you people not to read Buzz's 20 page propaganda piece written by ex-DNC flacks and admittedly not read by Buzz, either.

I'm sure if any of you had posted a lengthy Limbaugh article titled, "Obama's Failed Economic Policies" and admitted that you hadn't read it yourself that Buzz would have dropped everthing to get analyzin'.


I actually listen to right wing radio, and I read stuff from the Heritage Foundation and AEI. It's obvious that right wingers aren't interested in competing points of view.

road kill
04-18-2011, 09:38 AM
I actually listen to right wing radio, and I read stuff from the Heritage Foundation and AEI. It's obvious that right wingers aren't interested in competing points of view.

So, you consider "class envy" a viable position?
It has clearly become the Democrats main talking point since Obama's speech last week.


RK

huntinman
04-18-2011, 03:13 PM
Normal operating procedure.

Previous administrations had made use of signing statements to dispute the validity of a new law or its individual components. George H. W. Bush challenged 232 statutes through signing statements during four years in office and Clinton challenged 140 over eight years. George W. Bush's 130 signing statements contain at least 1,100 challenges.

Had I heard complaints about past administrations, it would lend credence to your current purely partisan complaints.

ps...I'm assuming "BUmma" refers to President Obama?

Here's a quote from then Sen. Obama on signing statements:

That's not part of his power, but this is part of the whole theory of George Bush that he can make laws as he goes along. I disagree with that. I taught the Constitution for 10 years. I believe in the Constitution and I will obey the Constitution of the United States. We're not going to use signing statements as a way of doing an end-run around Congress," then-Senator Obama said as a presidential candidate in 2008.

Just another in a long string of Obama lies...

dnf777
04-18-2011, 03:23 PM
Here's a quote from then Sen. Obama on signing statements:

That's not part of his power, but this is part of the whole theory of George Bush that he can make laws as he goes along. I disagree with that. I taught the Constitution for 10 years. I believe in the Constitution and I will obey the Constitution of the United States. We're not going to use signing statements as a way of doing an end-run around Congress," then-Senator Obama said as a presidential candidate in 2008.

Just another in a long string of Obama lies...

Bill,
In 1985, my poli-sci professor told us to forever fear ANY president grabbing power away from Congress, ie the people. Because once they sieze that power, they never relinquish it. And its handed down to every subsequent president. Presidential power grabbing crosses generations and party lines.

When Bush did it, I knew every president hence would do the same exact thing, no matter what they may have said as a senator, governor, or whatever they were before becoming president.

I don't like signing statements when Bush did it, nor when Obama does it. I am consistent in that. Any of you republicans care to admit the same? That since you're against it now, you were against it when Bush did it? Just wonderin'.....

huntinman
04-18-2011, 03:33 PM
Bill,
In 1985, my poli-sci professor told us to forever fear ANY president grabbing power away from Congress, ie the people. Because once they sieze that power, they never relinquish it. And its handed down to every subsequent president. Presidential power grabbing crosses generations and party lines.

When Bush did it, I knew every president hence would do the same exact thing, no matter what they may have said as a senator, governor, or whatever they were before becoming president.

I don't like signing statements when Bush did it, nor when Obama does it. I am consistent in that. Any of you republicans care to admit the same? That since you're against it now, you were against it when Bush did it? Just wonderin'.....

Don't know that I thought (or even knew) much about them then. Also don't recall President Bush making statements that he would never use them. Obama makes a habit of grand pronouncements followed by doing the exact opposite.

road kill
04-18-2011, 03:38 PM
Don't know that I thought (or even knew) much about them then. Also don't recall President Bush making statements that he would never use them. Obama makes a habit of grand pronouncements followed by doing the exact opposite.

Every time a progressive liberal gets caught in hypocrisy they use the blame card.
Page 5 of the play book.
Right between page 4: Victim card and page 6:Class Envy!!;-)



You know, their excuse is invariably;

HHhhHHhhEEeEeeSSSsSSsStTtTTTttTtAAaaAaarRrrRrRTttT tteEeEeeEdddDdDIIiiIitTtTtT!!!!:D


RK

dnf777
04-18-2011, 03:50 PM
Don't know that I thought (or even knew) much about them then. Also don't recall President Bush making statements that he would never use them. Obama makes a habit of grand pronouncements followed by doing the exact opposite.

You should have. Bush used a record number of them.

I never said Bush said he would never use them.

Yes, Obama does open his mouth prematurely; many cases of that.

I hope this doesn't negate Stan's cute little comments. I call hypocrisy when I see it, and yes, that was hypocritical of Obama. Predictable, also.

Neither Bush nor Obama started anything. They both carry on a long presidential history of power grabbing.

But, since Stan brought up hypocrisy....I haven't heard him say anything about signing statements, and his messiah's use of them in record numbers. Just cute little smears that signify nothing, and in this case, were proven false. (as in so many other cases as well)

ps...sorry to cross you stan. I hope that doesn't earn me a red-triangle demerit! I don't think it was a personal attack or name-calling. :confused:

Hew
04-18-2011, 04:32 PM
You should have. Bush used a record number of them.
OK, and this is the second time I've informed you that Bush had roughly half the signing statements of Clinton. Again, from this point on I'll have to consider it intentional or dementia.

dnf777
04-18-2011, 04:43 PM
OK, and this is the second time I've informed you that Bush had roughly half the signing statements of Clinton. Again, from this point on I'll have to consider it intentional or dementia.

That may be true, but each statement can challenge multiple rules. But that is not the point. My point was, once any president seizes power, he does not relinquish it....but it does pass down to the next guy, regardless of party.

You can spend time quibbling over who wrote more statements or challenged more rules if you want.........my point being that the Both did it, and so will Obama, no matter what he says. And guess what? If YOU get elected President in 2012....YOU will issue signing statements too!


Edit: From wiki:

Until Ronald Reagan became President, only 75 statements had been issued; Reagan and his successors George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton produced 247 signing statements among the three of them.[11] By the end of 2004, George W. Bush had issued 108 signing statements containing 505 constitutional challenges.[11] As of January 30, 2008, he had signed 157 signing statements challenging over 1,100 provisions of federal law.[12]

Just FYI--- I don't care about the exact numbers....they all signed a helluva lot more than they should have. Kind of gets back to the reason they're called "presidents" and not "Kings".

Raymond Little
04-18-2011, 04:49 PM
I actually listen to right wing radio, and I read stuff from the Heritage Foundation and AEI. It's obvious that LEFT wingers aren't interested in competing points of view.

That's why they bussed in thousands to protest and left the state to avoid doing thier jobs, isn't it????????:rolleyes: Buzz, the socialists are all for free speach when you agree with them but protest and throw fits if one disagrees with thier message.

Marvin S
04-18-2011, 07:43 PM
I actually listen to right wing radio, and I read stuff from the Heritage Foundation and AEI. It's obvious that right wingers aren't interested in competing points of view.

From my point of view - listened to Rush a little about 3 or 4 years ago, think Hannity is a charlatan, never listened to Beck, are there More? Isn't AEI a left leaning think tank? & anyone who has Reagan as their conservative Gold Standard (Heritage) is not that conservative, IMO, though I donate to Heritage. I believe some of the better fiscal & small government stuff originates from CATO, again IMO.

Have also read some of the really lefty stuff, most of which is devoid of substantive content.