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View Full Version : Will capitalism and the Super-rich kill America?



zeus3925
04-19-2011, 09:01 AM
I saw this thought provoking story on Marketwatch. It outlines 10 destructive trends that could end America as we know it. What do you think?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-doomsday-trends-america-cant-survive-2011-04-19

2tall
04-19-2011, 09:31 AM
This article is a case of stating the painfully obvious. I am not familiar with this publication but what strikes me is that it is full of the same emotionally charged phrasing that was used by the "capitalism or die" crowds.

How anyone can believe that our system can continue when 1% of the people control so much of the resources is totally beyond me.

Ok, I dipped my toe as far as I will go in POTUS, but thanks for sharing the article.

M&K's Retrievers
04-19-2011, 10:36 AM
......

Ok, I dipped my toe as far as I will go in POTUS, but thanks for sharing the article.

Careful, it's addictive. Step away from the keyboard. :p

Julie R.
04-19-2011, 02:14 PM
Interesting article...however the thing that most concerns me is the exponential population increase. Our own population would actually be declining if not for the illegals, welfare queens and their spawn. Even with them, it's pretty close to zero.

This dramatic population increase is not from the resource hogs, the developing and emerging nations. It's largely occurring in the poorest nations, the ones that cannot feed clothe or house themselves--but they sure can hatch out babies. Generations have become dependent on handouts from wealthy nations (mainly the U.S.). Two examples: Ethiopia and Haiti. Remember the 5 million starving Ethiopians that rock stars held concerts to raise funds for in the 1980s? Well now movie stars are on the Save Darfur bandwagon to raise even more money and the now 20 million starving Ethiopians. Starving, but still having babies. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. Stop the madness!

Right here in the Northern Hemisphere, take a look at Haiti...same thing. Anyone remember Clinton saying gloomily the island nation would not be able to sustain a population of over 5 million in the 1990s; it simply did not have the resources? It was rapidly being depleted of all trees and vegetation. At the time of the quake, Haiti had a population of NINE MILLION people. Not a tree or shrub left on their part of Hispaniola--every living stick had been chopped down and burned for cooking fires, and that was before the quake!

Yes, we will probably going to war with many of these thirld world ghettos over resources. So why are we still paying for them to have babies? Why are we letting union thugs send our jobs to them? It can't all be blamed on Wall Street, either. Why are we sitting back and letting WalMart and Big Box Land ruin small businesses because they can sell goods made overseas for cheaper than a small company can buy them wholesale? They're just giving the American people what they want: things they might otherwise have to save for that they can now have at a cheap price.

We are to blame as much as Wall Street, we've sat back and let the politicians politicize our schools and the politically correct prevent us from facing some hard truths and so we've dumbed down the people to accomodate the lowest common denominator and we're getting what we deserve.

Uncle Bill
04-19-2011, 04:37 PM
Well stated, Julie. Doubt it will sell in 'Peoria', however. The SFN crowd are like druggies on crack...they couldn't care less about the coming train wreck they are sitting in the middle of, just make sure they get their 'fix' before the conflagration wipes out humanity.

This is why someone I have the utmost respect for, Walter E. Williams has gone on record stating the Obama will win the next election. Hard as that is for any sane person to believe, his voters don't rely on sanity. It's the "give them some free ice cream" syndrome.

Anyone that lives in the USA and studied all the history of the early settlers, and then blames capitalism for the downfall of this country, has an agenda similar to Soros and the communists...or is in lock step with the Muslims and their holy war on the 'infidels'.

BTW, speaking of, if you aren't shooting as many ferel pigs as you can, and burying them in land that might be suitable for a mosque in your neighborhood, don't be surprised to see them start springing up like toadstools after a downpour.

UB

caryalsobrook
04-19-2011, 04:38 PM
This article is a case of stating the painfully obvious. I am not familiar with this publication but what strikes me is that it is full of the same emotionally charged phrasing that was used by the "capitalism or die" crowds.

How anyone can believe that our system can continue when 1% of the people control so much of the resources is totally beyond me.

Ok, I dipped my toe as far as I will go in POTUS, but thanks for sharing the article.

Sorry you totally misunderstand true resources. True resources are one's own industriousness, his innovation, creatativity, tenasity and his WILLINGNESS to utilize these assets. Progressive government strives only to control these assets and creates one who must rely on the policies of such a government in order to succeed rather than rely on these qualities. Take as an example the healthcare law. Already over 1000 waivers have been issued to the law. do you have any doubt that those in similar circumstances that don't receive such a waiver, will fail?? And if you give all in such circumstances, a waiver then why was the law such in the first place?And this is a law that has not even gone into effect yet. the simplistic arguement is that now the government chooses winners and losers. the result is that rather than rely on the qualities above , relies on the government for favoritism.

You will never see a progressive or a liberal or a socialist or a Marxist who does not abhore Capitalism. they hate it because they beleive from those acording to ability(that meaning those posessing the qualities stated above and are willing to utilize them) to those acording to need. Take from the rich and give to the poor. That is the function of the government for that makes the poor beholding to the government and therefore slaves of the government. Democratic Capitolist societies always have been attacked by this logic and will always be. If they win then that contry winds up with a dictatorship, very low standrd of living that finally reaches such a low level of producivity that it will finally collapse. Look at the Soviet Union, North Korea, the former East Germany, Cuba. there are many more. The interesting country is China which is going at breakneck speed to look like the country we used to be while we ar moving toward the country China used to be.

subroc
04-19-2011, 06:52 PM
I don't know if capitalism will kill America, but it sure as he!! built it.

caryalsobrook
04-19-2011, 07:02 PM
I don't know if capitalism will kill America, but it sure as he!! built it.

You said it a hell of a lot better than I did:)

2tall
04-19-2011, 09:29 PM
Sorry you totally misunderstand true resources. True resources are one's own industriousness, his innovation, creatativity, tenasity and his WILLINGNESS to utilize these assets. Progressive government strives only to control these assets and creates one who must rely on the policies of such a government in order to succeed rather than rely on these qualities. Take as an example the healthcare law. Already over 1000 waivers have been issued to the law. do you have any doubt that those in similar circumstances that don't receive such a waiver, will fail?? And if you give all in such circumstances, a waiver then why was the law such in the first place?And this is a law that has not even gone into effect yet. the simplistic arguement is that now the government chooses winners and losers. the result is that rather than rely on the qualities above , relies on the government for favoritism.

You will never see a progressive or a liberal or a socialist or a Marxist who does not abhore Capitalism. they hate it because they beleive from those acording to ability(that meaning those posessing the qualities stated above and are willing to utilize them) to those acording to need. Take from the rich and give to the poor. That is the function of the government for that makes the poor beholding to the government and therefore slaves of the government. Democratic Capitolist societies always have been attacked by this logic and will always be. If they win then that contry winds up with a dictatorship, very low standrd of living that finally reaches such a low level of producivity that it will finally collapse. Look at the Soviet Union, North Korea, the former East Germany, Cuba. there are many more. The interesting country is China which is going at breakneck speed to look like the country we used to be while we ar moving toward the country China used to be.

Good luck to you my friend. We no longer have a democracy. Only those that can afford to pay the freight, can influence the political decisions. And it sure as hell ain't me!

road kill
04-19-2011, 09:42 PM
Good luck to you my friend. We no longer have a democracy. Only those that can afford to pay the freight, can influence the political decisions. And it sure as hell ain't me!

Do you mean.....like.....Public Employee Union bosses??

RK

huntinman
04-19-2011, 10:00 PM
Good luck to you my friend. We no longer have a democracy. Only those that can afford to pay the freight, can influence the political decisions. And it sure as hell ain't me!

I think you have two toes in now;-)

caryalsobrook
04-20-2011, 02:52 AM
Good luck to you my friend. We no longer have a democracy. Only those that can afford to pay the freight, can influence the political decisions. And it sure as hell ain't me!

As I said, relying fon the gov for favoritism makes you a slave of the gov. Relying on your own creativity, innovation, tenacity, ect. makes you free.

zeus3925
04-23-2011, 09:16 AM
Capitalism has provided America with an unsurpassed life style. However, the current concentration of wealth is causing the political system to become captive to monied interests locking out the power of the average citizen.

Half the current Congress are millionaires. (The odds of the average American having a net worth of a million dollars is 1:21). The Democrats were long seen as advocates for the American worker. But the Dems have succumbed the influence of their own wealth. Seven of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are Democrats. (Rep. Darrel Issa is the wealthiest at $441 million.) They no longer are the party of the working man.

It takes money to run modern campaigns and both parties know the small donations from the average Joe. Both are after the big money and as the old saying goes: "You dance with the one that brung you." $17 million dollars from outside forces spent on a congressional campaign is not going to make the winner more responsive to constituents. 261,000 registered lobbyists are not speaking for the interests of the rest of us.

When you bring up issues like this, you often hear don't start class warfare. This is a bit like the elphant saying to the ant: " Let's not step on each other." If monied interests can spend $14 billion each year in lobbying the government, then maybe the Uber-rich aren't taxed enough. They are drowning out the voices of the citizenry.

Marvin S
04-23-2011, 09:36 AM
Good luck to you my friend. We no longer have a democracy. Only those that can afford to pay the freight, can influence the political decisions. And it sure as hell ain't me!

I don't agree with that statement! You can influence the governing class, but you have to do it with sweat equity. There are avenue's which I use that can create a result closer to what is good for the citizens.


Capitalism has provided America with an unsurpassed life style. However, the current concentration of wealth is causing the political system to become captive to monied interests locking out the power of the average citizen.

Half the current Congress are millionaires. (The odds of the average American having a net worth of a million dollars is 1:21). The Democrats were long seen as advocates for the American worker. But the Dems have succumbed the influence of their own wealth. Seven of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are Democrats. (Rep. Darrel Issa is the wealthiest at $441 million.) They no longer are the party of the working man.

It takes money to run modern campaigns and both parties know the small donations from the average Joe. Both are after the big money and as the old saying goes: "You dance with the one that brung you." $17 million dollars from outside forces spent on a congressional campaign is not going to make the winner more responsive to constituents. 261,000 registered lobbyists are not speaking for the interests of the rest of us.

When you bring up issues like this, you often hear don't start class warfare. This is a bit like the elphant saying to the ant: " Let's not step on each other." If monied interests can spend $14 billion each year in lobbying the government, then maybe the Uber-rich aren't taxed enough. They are drowning out the voices of the citizenry.

What you say is the general feeling of most folks. If you don't like the way things go, what are you trying to do about it? POTUS is a place where most folks would agree with what you say, probably for different reasons than yours. So it's not the platform for the message you want to send :).

I personally want someone in office who has proven their abilities. Unfortunately there are many in office who have no ability, but they come with little & leave multimillionaires. There is something wrong with that!!!!!!!!!

subroc
04-23-2011, 09:55 AM
Capitalism has provided America with an unsurpassed life style. However, the current concentration of wealth is causing the political system to become captive to monied interests locking out the power of the average citizen...

That is why you join special interest groups like the NRA or any other of the myriad of groups that are issue related. That give you the financial clout you need to support issues and positions that are important to you, but it also gives you something those with just money cannot bring to the table. what is that you ask...a voting bloc!

luvmylabs23139
04-23-2011, 11:04 AM
Good luck to you my friend. We no longer have a democracy. Only those that can afford to pay the freight, can influence the political decisions. And it sure as hell ain't me!


AS long as those that pay ZERO federal income taxes are allowed to vote to steal money from those who earned it this country will not be free,
Those that work hard and earn money are held hostage by those that suck off of them.

road kill
04-23-2011, 11:08 AM
Capitalism has provided America with an unsurpassed life style. However, the current concentration of wealth is causing the political system to become captive to monied interests locking out the power of the average citizen.

Half the current Congress are millionaires. (The odds of the average American having a net worth of a million dollars is 1:21). The Democrats were long seen as advocates for the American worker. But the Dems have succumbed the influence of their own wealth. Seven of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are Democrats. (Rep. Darrel Issa is the wealthiest at $441 million.) They no longer are the party of the working man.

It takes money to run modern campaigns and both parties know the small donations from the average Joe. Both are after the big money and as the old saying goes: "You dance with the one that brung you." $17 million dollars from outside forces spent on a congressional campaign is not going to make the winner more responsive to constituents. 261,000 registered lobbyists are not speaking for the interests of the rest of us.

When you bring up issues like this, you often hear don't start class warfare. This is a bit like the elphant saying to the ant: " Let's not step on each other." If monied interests can spend $14 billion each year in lobbying the government, then maybe the Uber-rich aren't taxed enough. They are drowning out the voices of the citizenry.

How do you feel about the projections that Obama will raise in excess of $1 BILLION in campaign funds for his '12 efforts?


RK

BonMallari
04-23-2011, 11:21 AM
Capitalism has provided America with an unsurpassed life style. However, the current concentration of wealth is causing the political system to become captive to monied interests locking out the power of the average citizen.

Half the current Congress are millionaires. (The odds of the average American having a net worth of a million dollars is 1:21). The Democrats were long seen as advocates for the American worker. But the Dems have succumbed the influence of their own wealth. Seven of the ten wealthiest members of Congress are Democrats. (Rep. Darrel Issa is the wealthiest at $441 million.) They no longer are the party of the working man.

It takes money to run modern campaigns and both parties know the small donations from the average Joe. Both are after the big money and as the old saying goes: "You dance with the one that brung you." $17 million dollars from outside forces spent on a congressional campaign is not going to make the winner more responsive to constituents. 261,000 registered lobbyists are not speaking for the interests of the rest of us.

When you bring up issues like this, you often hear don't start class warfare. This is a bit like the elphant saying to the ant: " Let's not step on each other." If monied interests can spend $14 billion each year in lobbying the government, then maybe the Uber-rich aren't taxed enough. They are drowning out the voices of the citizenry.

what are you other alternatives...surely not SOCIALISM, is there class warfare, ABSOLUTELY, but why should anyone have to pick up the tab for someone else when they didnt earn it

Franco
04-23-2011, 11:26 AM
what are you other alternatives...surely not SOCIALISM, is there class warfare, ABSOLUTELY, but why should anyone have to pick up the tab for someone else when they didnt earn it

Class Warfare is all Obama has to run on. Look at his record, what has he accomplished? Just as in 08, his greatest appeal is with the lowest common denominator.

zeus3925
04-23-2011, 05:04 PM
How do you feel about the projections that Obama will raise in excess of $1 BILLION in campaign funds for his '12 efforts?


RK

And I am sure the other side will match it 3 to 1. Whatever, it is an obscene amount. It does not bode well for the Republic.

zeus3925
04-23-2011, 05:11 PM
what are you other alternatives...surely not SOCIALISM, is there class warfare, ABSOLUTELY, but why should anyone have to pick up the tab for someone else when they didnt earn it

Not arguing with your point. I am not in support of subsidies for oil companies , farm subsidies, wind subsidies, etc. It ain't just the poor people on the dole. The reason subsidies for the rich exist is that they have the political clout to make it happen. That in turn has allowed them to agglomerate more power at the expense of the balance of political power in this country.

BonMallari
04-23-2011, 05:28 PM
Not arguing with your point. I am not in support of subsidies for oil companies , farm subsidies, wind subsidies, etc. It ain't just the poor people on the dole. The reason subsidies for the rich exist is that they have the political clout to make it happen. That in turn has allowed them to agglomerate more power at the expense of the balance of political power in this country..

with the exception of any farmer that may lurk on here, I cant think of anyone that supports subsidies either...but in a free capitalistic system the old adage of "whoever pays the fiddler, gets to call the tune" still applies...

the only "weapon" that the so called "poor or soon to be poor" people have is the power of the vote...but yet we keep putting the same type of politician in office that votes for subsidies for that contractor or deep pocketed constituent in their district,while the apathetic non voting public cries out " where is my share"

Politicians like to give the ILLUSION that they are reigning in big business and controlling the free market system, but in reality they are making sure that the people that put them in power stay powerful enough to keep them there...and that hurts ALL of us

zeus3925
04-23-2011, 05:59 PM
with the exception of any farmer that may lurk on here, I cant think of anyone that supports subsidies either...but in a free capitalistic system the old adage of "whoever pays the fiddler, gets to call the tune" still applies...

the only "weapon" that the so called "poor or soon to be poor" people have is the power of the vote...but yet we keep putting the same type of politician in office that votes for subsidies for that contractor or deep pocketed constituent in their district,while the apathetic non voting public cries out " where is my share"

Politicians like to give the ILLUSION that they are reigning in big business and controlling the free market system, but in reality they are making sure that the people that put them in power stay powerful enough to keep them there...and that hurts ALL of us

The populace is often manipulated into polarized positions by political operatives pushing the hot buttons issues. It gives the politicians cover when their agenda is not for the people. Get everyone's undies in a bunch over abortion, for example, and they won't see the wonderful deed that Congressman X just pulled off for Company Y.

Get the electorate fussing about birth certificates and they won't question the tax breaks going to GE or Donald Trump.

menmon
04-23-2011, 08:21 PM
If you don't know America has already changed. We will play second fiddle to the powers such as China and India. They have great quantities of resources and cheap labor. Manufacturing left years ago accept for defense primarily. This is why we like conflict because it sales the only main we really manufacture.

Yes we will drown in our own debt and will eventually go bankrupt but it will be a reorg but countless will loose when it happens.

As for as fiscal responsibility is concerned, both parties only want to give up what is not important to their base, so even with the tea party telling them to cut cost they will not touch the big items, defense and entitlements because it is all about getting reelected not doiing what is right for america.

The super rich and capitalism only react to the cards delt. Capitalism takes no prisionors, so it will clasp the economy if it is the winning hand. However, don't blame the rich, they are just doing the smart thing.