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View Full Version : Honest question to politically left of center conversationalists



1tulip
05-08-2011, 12:35 AM
Quick background: I was at a HT in the gallery and overheard two pro's (one from Oregon, the other from another state) talking about new rules by ODFW that basically make retriever training and HT/FT impossible. i.e., commercially raised duck and pheasant are regulated like the wild variety and bag limits are imposed during nesting season, so gunners in a HT/FT are limited by the State and have to have hunting licenses, and permits etc and so on.

Now, this appears to be due to West Oregon/East Oregon, Left vs. Right debate over the size and scope of government. It also seems like something that may have its roots in revenue enhancement, tree-hugging (excuse the pejorative) and a dash of animal rights activism thrown in. Whatever it is, it's not about preservation of wild game and habitat.

My question is: Do you read what's going on as somewhat political in origin? If so, am I correct in seeing it as a power-play by influential left-end-of-spectrum public interest groups? Are you comfortable supporting these sorts of actions? Do you see them as detrimental to what everyone on this forum loves, retriever training?

I'm totally honest in wanting to pick your minds on this issue. My brother is a WAY FAR lefty and I am forever trying to understand his reasoning (and he mine, I suppose.)

Buzz
05-08-2011, 08:24 AM
I think it's ridiculous to say that this is a lefty issue. Sure there are lots of lefty tree huggers, but I am amazed at the number of conservatives who contribute to HSUS and PETA. Seriously, they know how to tug at people's heart strings with their ads on the TV showing pictures of terrible mistreatment of animals.

How much research have you done on this issue? I looked around on the internets and came up with this:

http://scottlindenoutdoors.com/3467-2/oregons-draft-rule-on-dog-training-with-pen-raised-birds/

It’s done! Oregon’s draft rule on dog training with pen raised birds


It’s done! Oregon’s draft rule on dog training with pen raised birds
Okay everyone, six weeks, seven meetings and hundreds of hours of give-and-take finally resulted in this first real set of laws regulating (allowing) dog training with pen-raised game birds. Whew!

Nineteen members of a volunteer committee (actually, two were paid ODFW employees) came from all over the state and represented a diverse set of viewpoints. We had members from the Sauvie Island Conservation Partnership to hunting preserve owners, professional dog trainers to hardcore amateur field trialers. We had houndsmen and falconers and as you can imagine, there were some knock-down, drag-out fights.

In the end, the process resulted in a draft rule that nobody is completely satisfied with. That’s how this politics thing works. We on the committee agreed that we can live with it. Can you?

This version is the final draft with all strike-outs, corrections, etc. and is in rough form pending a look-see by the department’s rules-writing guru, then the Attorney General’s office. It will be presented to the Oregon Fish & Wildlife Commission for their approval on June 2.

Mark the date, and don’t rest on your laurels. You can bet the anti-hunters, bird watchers, cat lovers/dog haters and preservationists will be at that June 2 meeting wearing their carrot suits and carrying picket signs. They will be flooding the commission with emails and letters, and likely will line up to testify at that meeting.

We also have that right, and simply because our diverse non-partisan group created this rule doesn’t mean it can’t be changed, or not adopted at all. If the latter occurs, we are back to square one. Current law prohibits virtually all dog training on public or private land with pen raised birds, all year.

Don’t let the PETA and Audubon folk hijack this open and democratic process! Go here for a draft email you can send, adopt, use as your testimony or send to your friends. In fact, do all four!

Go to the linked story. There is a link there with the text of the rule, it's only a couple of paragraphs of some pretty straight forward language. Also there is a link there to a draft letter for sending to your legislators. Maybe you should put this on the main forum where fellow sportsmen will see it, and email a link to the story to all your friends and dog training associates...

code3retrievers
05-08-2011, 09:33 AM
It definitely is a left or right issue. Although there are idiots in the right that give money to peta there are very few compared to the left. These proposals do not start, nor do they gain ground in conservative states.
Ideas like this come from Oregon, California, New York and other bastions of leftist thinking.
Could you imagine AZ or TX starting this nonsense.

Unfortunately the left wing on RTF turns a blind eye towards these issues just as they can't comprehend that the left ultimately wants to ban your right to own a gun, even though it is tried in every leftist state and city.

Granted these are or were fringe movements 10 years ago but now are in the forefront of the party and have big money backing them.

Its just a matter of time before this nonsense spreads around the country.

Roger Perry
05-08-2011, 10:19 AM
It definitely is a left or right issue. Although there are idiots in the right that give money to peta there are very few compared to the left. These proposals do not start, nor do they gain ground in conservative states.
Ideas like this come from Oregon, California, New York and other bastions of leftist thinking.
Could you imagine AZ or TX starting this nonsense.

Unfortunately the left wing on RTF turns a blind eye towards these issues just as they can't comprehend that the left ultimately wants to ban your right to own a gun, even though it is tried in every leftist state and city.

Granted these are or were fringe movements 10 years ago but now are in the forefront of the party and have big money backing them.

Its just a matter of time before this nonsense spreads around the country.

That is like saying only Republicans are against abortion and only Democrats are for the right to choose.

code3retrievers
05-10-2011, 12:52 AM
That is like saying only Republicans are against abortion and only Democrats are for the right to choose.

That would be a fair statement for the vast majority of both parties. Of course there are members that would swing the other way but not too many from either party. If you don't like either parties platform then maybe you are an independent.

But I stand by my original statement most of this junk comes from the left.

caryalsobrook
05-10-2011, 07:48 PM
I think it's ridiculous to say that this is a lefty issue. Sure there are lots of lefty tree huggers, but I am amazed at the number of conservatives who contribute to HSUS and PETA. Seriously, they know how to tug at people's heart strings with their ads on the TV showing pictures of terrible mistreatment of animals.

How much research have you done on this issue? I looked around on the internets and came up with this:

http://scottlindenoutdoors.com/3467-2/oregons-draft-rule-on-dog-training-with-pen-raised-birds/

Itís done! Oregonís draft rule on dog training with pen raised birds



Go to the linked story. There is a link there with the text of the rule, it's only a couple of paragraphs of some pretty straight forward language. Also there is a link there to a draft letter for sending to your legislators. Maybe you should put this on the main forum where fellow sportsmen will see it, and email a link to the story to all your friends and dog training associates...

I suspect you are ight but the difference is that liberals want government to step in and regulate while consevatives would prefer private action.

1tulip
05-10-2011, 11:51 PM
Holy smoke. So this new rule making is for the protection of hunting and dog-fanciers.

Does that mean that retriever training and hunting is dying out here in NV? It never occurred to anyone here to importune the legislature to regulate use of pen-raised birds. (But then, we have genuine problems like 14.5% unemployment and gazillions of dollars of debt, and a complete exhaustion of all sources of new revenue.)

Anyway... enough of that. You don't need to hear about our problems, but

Genuinely... I don't understand. It seems the article to which you posted is saying that
1) there are a lot of crazies out there who want to stop hunting and dog-training. AND
2) Before they can write all the rules eliminating our access to live birds, we better suck up and collaborate with them and hope they'll throw us a few crumbs.

How is this not embracing the snake and expecting it to NOT bite us?

charly_t
05-11-2011, 01:40 AM
Holy smoke...........................
How is this not embracing the snake and expecting it to NOT bite us?

"...............keep your enemies closer."

caryalsobrook
05-11-2011, 05:44 AM
"...............keep your enemies closer."

Is that what we did with Bin Laden?

charly_t
05-11-2011, 03:53 PM
Is that what we did with Bin Laden?


Good question. I have no idea on it. I do believe we need to know what our enemy is doing and it would seem in a fight that a person would need to be close enough to land some good "hits". I guess it depends on the kind of fighting we are doing. We sure need to know what the ar people are doing and saying. Then we need to be there to have our say. All I can tell you is if the Oklahoma people hadn't been there in the recent fight for dog breeders rights etc. We "dog people" would have lost big time.

1tulip
05-12-2011, 09:52 PM
Charley...

The Oklahomans fought them. The Oregonians got in bed with them.

charly_t
05-13-2011, 01:01 AM
In MO they are still fighting them. Too bad the MO dog people don't have as much money for the fight as the ar people.............the ar people have all those nice donations from animal lovers who don't know what ar people are up to.

1tulip
05-13-2011, 01:15 AM
There may one day have to be an animal equivalent to the Heller case. Someone will have to go to court and sue the governmental bodies that are restricting freedom. The money to fight the case will have to come from every type of pet-fancier, every hunter, every ag company, every circus and zoo, every outdoor magazine, you name it. There may even have to be civil disobedience and boot-legging of ducks and pheasant. Every responsible dog owner will have to keep their animals intact and dare the state to come after 100's of thousands of their citizens.

We may not win it on the front. We may have to win it in the trenches.