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luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 11:17 AM
OK, serious question. For those that believe water boarding is torture, what is your reasoning?

Seems to me I went through worse in the 70's just to get a red cross advanced survival swimming pass as a youngster. We did everything in lake not a pool.

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 11:44 AM
OK, serious question. For those that believe water boarding is torture, what is your reasoning?

Seems to me I went through worse in the 70's just to get a red cross advanced survival swimming pass as a youngster. We did everything in lake not a pool.

This could be a reason-----------------

Although a variety of specific techniques are used in waterboarding, the captive's face is usually covered with cloth or some other thin material, and the subject is immobilized on his/her back. Water is then poured onto the face over the breathing passages, causing an almost immediate gag reflex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_reflex) and creating the sensation that the captive is drowning.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#cite_note-ABCNewsWB_110807-2) Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_drowning), damage to lungs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungs), brain damage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_damage) from oxygen deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_deprivation), other physical injuries including broken bones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_fracture) due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage and, if uninterrupted, death.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#cite_note-HRW_open_letter_WB-3) Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#cite_note-NY-4) The term water board torture appears in press reports as early as 1976.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#cite_note-Safire-5)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

IowaBayDog
05-09-2011, 11:51 AM
Well the stock answer used to be that torture didn't work for getting valuable information. Guess that myth is busted....


Executing terrorists without a trial is OK, Waterboarding a terrorist to gain information and letting them live, not OK. Doesn't seem too logical to me. I guess they could have asked UBL if he wanted the bullet or to be waterboarded repeatedly for 6 months and live in prison the rest of his life and see what the terrorists think is the worse option. Personally I think 6 months of waterboarding then the bullet to the head would have been better but I'm ok with how it went down too.

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Well the stock answer used to be that torture didn't work for getting valuable information. Guess that myth is busted....


Executing terrorists without a trial is OK, Waterboarding a terrorist to gain information and letting them live, not OK. Doesn't seem too logical to me. I guess they could have asked UBL if he wanted the bullet or to be waterboarded repeatedly for 6 months and live in prison the rest of his life and see what the terrorists think is the worse option. Personally I think 6 months of waterboarding then the bullet to the head would have been better but I'm ok with how it went down too.

The information obtained was after the waterboarding stopped.
Waterboarding Timeline Shows Torture Did Not Lead To Getting Bin Laden

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was reportedly waterboarded 183 times, but that took place years before he was at Gitmo, and did not produce information leading to bin Laden’s demise. By the time the name of the courier’s name, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, was learned, it was 2007, and that was years after waterboarding and rendering to black sites had stopped (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/surveillance-not-waterboarding-led-to-bin-laden/).

http://www.alan.com/2011/05/03/waterboarding-timeline-shows-torture-did-not-lead-to-getting-bin-laden/


Torture, according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Torture) (an advisory measure of the UN General Assembly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_General_Assembly)) is:

...any act by which severe pain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain) or suffering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffering), whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession), punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimidating) or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions. --UN Convention Against Torture[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture#cite_note-0)

Torture is prohibited under international law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law) and the domestic laws of most countries in the 21st century. It is considered to be a violation of human rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights), and is declared to be unacceptable by Article 5 of the UN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations) Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights). Signatories of the Third Geneva Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention) and Fourth Geneva Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention) officially agree not to torture prisoners in armed conflicts. Torture is also prohibited by the United Nations Convention Against Torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Against_Torture), which has been ratified by 147 states.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture#cite_note-1)

luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 12:37 PM
I've seen numerous vidoes and it doesn't seem like torture to me.
Oh, heck a bad guy might feal pain. WAH WAH WAH!!!!
HMM psycho damage??? What have terrorists been doing to the entire free world?
Still think it is NOT harsh.
Looks like a walk in the park compared to what kids did in the 70's to get that Red CRoss anvanced survival swimming pass.

2labs
05-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Roger,
You are a sympathizer. Dont you wish you could ask Daniel Pearl if he would have rather been waterboarded or would you just want your head cut off?
This is a fight for survivial, that you don't seem to get. This is war, but this is not a normal war with rules only pertaining to one side. If or when you have a family member killed by terrorist maybe then you will sing a different tune.
These people feel nothing for human life, and you are offended by our actions to get to the bottom of these terror groups and kill them one by one from the top down.

Where do I send your one way ticket? As your travel agent, I will pick a nice cozy mud hut, so you can sit around sip tea and talk about how violent the US is in its torture methods. All the while you strap a bomb vest on a school child to go and kill US Servicemen who happen to handing out tables and pencils that day.
As a vetran who served my country for 22 years, allowing people like you freedoms to enjoy makes me sick. I truly hope you check your status in this life to see who's side you are on.
Oh and Roger, how many friends and family did you have killed on 9-11?

road kill
05-09-2011, 12:38 PM
Roger, you went through worse than this in SEAL school, didn't you??:D

Just askin'........



RK

luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 12:45 PM
OK Roger,
Is this torture?
Flip someone into the water, pitch black lake, off a boat and have the boat flipped on top of them??? NO lifejacket?

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 12:51 PM
Roger,
You are a sympathizer. Dont you wish you could ask Daniel Pearl if he would have rather been waterboarded or would you just want your head cut off?
This is a fight for survivial, that you don't seem to get. This is war, but this is not a normal war with rules only pertaining to one side. If or when you have a family member killed by terrorist maybe then you will sing a different tune.
These people feel nothing for human life, and you are offended by our actions to get to the bottom of these terror groups and kill them one by one from the top down.

Where do I send your one way ticket? As your travel agent, I will pick a nice cozy mud hut, so you can sit around sip tea and talk about how violent the US is in its torture methods. All the while you strap a bomb vest on a school child to go and kill US Servicemen who happen to handing out tables and pencils that day.
As a vetran who served my country for 22 years, allowing people like you freedoms to enjoy makes me sick. I truly hope you check your status in this life to see who's side you are on.
Oh and Roger, how many friends and family did you have killed on 9-11?

We have people here in the United States prison system that have no regard for human life if what you say is true why don't we torture them????????????

We are supposed to set the example for the world. Why do we have to stoop to the terrorists level??????????? There were atrocities performed by the Germans and Japaneese against American prisoners of war. Did that mean we needed to treat the German and Japaneese POW the same way ours were treated???????????

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Roger, you went through worse than this in SEAL school, didn't you??:D

Just askin'........



RK

I never said I went to SEAL school. Get it right don't start spreading lies about me. I said SEAL recuriters came to our Radio school in Bainbridge Maryland.;-)

road kill
05-09-2011, 12:55 PM
I never said I went to SEAL school. Get it right don't start spreading lies about me. I said SEAL recuriters came to our Radio school in Bainbridge Maryland.;-)

I am not the one spreading lies about your military history.;-)


RK

huntinman
05-09-2011, 12:59 PM
I am not the one spreading lies about your military history.;-)


RK

He couldn't be a SEAL... he stubbed his toe:rolleyes:

luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 01:00 PM
OK Roger,
Is this torture?
Flip someone into the water, pitch black lake, off a boat and have the boat flipped on top of them??? NO lifejacket?



Well Roger,
What is your answer?
WE are waiting!

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 01:09 PM
I am not the one spreading lies about your military history.;-)


RK

In West Bend, my next door neighbor was in UDT during WWII. I had alot of respect for him. I helped him train his labradors and in return he trusted me with taking his dogs out and hunting with them.
When I entered the Navy, I had no thoughts of becoming a UDT or what were called Navy SEAL. When I was sent to Bainbridge Md for my radio school a few SEAL recruiters came and visited us there near the end of the school. It sparked an interest in me and I said I would be interested in their training. The SEAL school was supposed to start right after my class graduated from radio school. I got a real bad foot infection that the doctors at Bainbridge said was really bad and they ordered me to go to the hospital in Philadelphia. I was there almost a month. By the time I got back to school I was placed in another class to finish school. When I graduated the SEAL school had already started and if I were interested I would have had to wait for the next SEAL school to start and I would have had to extend my enlistment which at the time I did not want to do.

I don't give a rat's behind if you or anyone else do not believe me.

luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 01:19 PM
Still won't answer my question will you Roger?

Clay Rogers
05-09-2011, 01:36 PM
We have people here in the United States prison system that have no regard for human life if what you say is true why don't we torture them????????????

We are supposed to set the example for the world. Why do we have to stoop to the terrorists level??????????? There were atrocities performed by the Germans and Japaneese against American prisoners of war. Did that mean we needed to treat the German and Japaneese POW the same way ours were treated???????????

In response to first paragraph, what information do we need to torture a prisoner for? Does he know something about a possible attack on some part of the US we need to know about? If so, absolutely.

In response to your second paragraph, if we set the example for the rest of the world, what example did we set when we killed an unarmed man and shot his unarmed wife, all on another countries soverign soil? Now before you jump all over me, I am firmly for what UBL got. As a matter of fact, he should have got 2 to the head and 2 to the chest. I would love to buy the guys that carried this raid out several rounds of beer. But you liberals need to come up with a set of standards and stick to them. How is murdering an unarmed man ok and pouring some water on another man's face not ok? Can't have it both ways, you stud muffin you.

road kill
05-09-2011, 01:41 PM
In response to first paragraph, what information do we need to torture a prisoner for? Does he know something about a possible attack on some part of the US we need to know about? If so, absolutely.

In response to your second paragraph, if we set the example for the rest of the world, what example did we set when we killed an unarmed man and shot his unarmed wife, all on another countries soverign soil? Now before you jump all over me, I am firmly for what UBL got. As a matter of fact, he should have got 2 to the head and 2 to the chest. I would love to buy the guys that carried this raid out several rounds of beer. But you liberals need to come up with a set of standards and stick to them. How is murdering an unarmed man ok and pouring some water on another man's face not ok? Can't have it both ways, you stud muffin you.

I beleive we "unilaterally entered a sovereign nation to assassinate an unarmed foreign leader.":shock:

Something Obama was appalled by just a couple years ago.

But now it's almost a monthly event (Egypt or Libya anyone??)


Just sayin'...........


RK

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 01:46 PM
I beleive we "unilaterally entered a sovereign nation to assassinate an unarmed foreign leader.":shock:

Something Obama was appalled by just a couple years ago.

But now it's almost a monthly event (Egypt or Libya anyone??)


Just sayin'...........


RK

In the Past you bitched about Clinton not taking out bin Laden when he had the chance. Now you sing a different tune. Please tell us what the difference was when you thought Clinton had a shot at bin Laden (even though there was not a positive ID) and did not bomb him and now???????????? Wouldn't Clinton ordering a bombing in Afghanistan be unilaterally entering a soverign nation to assassinate a foreign leader??????????????? How about Bush, he sent an army into a soverign nation with the express purpose of killing or capturing bin Laden and other al Qeada leaders.


Who is the sympathizer now?

"Anyone who questions whether the United States should have killed Osama bin Laden needs to have their head examined, President Barack Obama said in remarks broadcast on Sunday."
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/obama-says-lost-no-sleep-over-death-bin-025544789.html

Sue Kiefer
05-09-2011, 01:55 PM
I do think that we as a peaceful nation need to set an example of what NOT to do in the name of WAR.
And yes, while some countries do terrible things to their prisoners/captives.
Do we need to be as nasty or like my Mom used to say "Be a big boy/girl and set a good example of what NOt to do."
Sue

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 02:03 PM
Still won't answer my question will you Roger?

I don't know, I have never had a boat tipped over on top of me. There is always the chance of getting hit in the head and sinking to the bottom of the lake.

road kill
05-09-2011, 02:13 PM
In the Past you bitched about Clinton not taking out bin Laden when he had the chance. Now you sing a different tune. Please tell us what the difference was when you thought Clinton had a shot at bin Laden (even though there was not a positive ID) and did not bomb him and now???????????? Wouldn't Clinton ordering a bombing in Afghanistan be unilaterally entering a soverign nation to assassinate a foreign leader??????????????? How about Bush, he sent an army into a soverign nation with the express purpose of killing or capturing bin Laden and other al Qeada leaders.


Who is the sympathizer now?

"Anyone who questions whether the United States should have killed Osama bin Laden needs to have their head examined, President Barack Obama said in remarks broadcast on Sunday."
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/obama-says-lost-no-sleep-over-death-bin-025544789.html

I have no problem what so ever whacking Bin Laden.

That is a quote from a very famous secular progressive.:cool:

But it appears the rules have changed.

RK

2labs
05-09-2011, 02:22 PM
Sue,
It looks good on paper but lets say you would have a family member working as a reporter and he was kidnapped and his beheading was filmed and released on the internet. Please tell me how you would be a bigger person here? Or a relative was handing out stuffed animals in front of a school in Afgan and a cute 12 year old came up to him, smiled, and detonated. ??

Roger, as it was stated, if there is a serial killer in prison and we needed to find the bodies that are not accounted for? Waterboard him till he talks, if he doesn't talk then we would have an "accidental drowning". A person in prison is no longer a menace to society. Now your boy wanted to close our terrorist prison (GITMO), that leaves one option. Kill em and carrying them out the front door. Of course your type fully believes they are all re-habilitated and will no longer due harm... WTFE.
Oh and Roger, my question? How many friends and family members did you lose on 9/11?

Lastly: Tell me how many awards the United states has won and how many friends abroad have we recieved for being the bigger person?
Eye for an Eye?
If I was in another country I would say, when are those stupid americans going to get tough, kick some serious ass and make a statement. Instead we are "suppose" to turn the other cheek and continue to get punched...

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 02:42 PM
Sue,
It looks good on paper but lets say you would have a family member working as a reporter and he was kidnapped and his beheading was filmed and released on the internet. Please tell me how you would be a bigger person here? Or a relative was handing out stuffed animals in front of a school in Afgan and a cute 12 year old came up to him, smiled, and detonated. ??

Roger, as it was stated, if there is a serial killer in prison and we needed to find the bodies that are not accounted for? Waterboard him till he talks, if he doesn't talk then we would have an "accidental drowning". A person in prison is no longer a menace to society. Now your boy wanted to close our terrorist prison (GITMO), that leaves one option. Kill em and carrying them out the front door. Of course your type fully believes they are all re-habilitated and will no longer due harm... WTFE.
I am not dilusional I find it hard to believe for anyone that commits henious crimes that land them in jail can be rehabilitated unless of course it was proven through DNA that they did not commit the crime.
Oh and Roger, my question? How many friends and family members did you lose on 9/11?
I did not personally know anyone whose lives were lost in 9/11 however I was at home before going to work watching television when the planes slammed into the World Trade Centers. I saw people jumping out of windows hundreds of stories up and I saw the buildings crumble. I could not have felt worse if I had known anyone who was killed that day. It is something I will remember until I die.
Oh, I was also home from school sick when JFK was shot. I was watching television laying on the living room couch watching the motorcade. I saw JFK being shot and was in shock and disbelief just as I was on 9/11.

Lastly: Tell me how many awards the United states has won and how many friends abroad have we recieved for being the bigger person?
Eye for an Eye?
If I was in another country I would say, when are those stupid americans going to get tough, kick some serious ass and make a statement. Instead we are "suppose" to turn the other cheek and continue to get punched...

But hey, why stop at waterboarding why don't we try:


Abacination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacination)
Beatings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_(attack)) and physical violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_abuse)
Blinding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindness) with light
Boiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_to_death)
Bone breaking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_breaking)
Branding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_branding)
Castration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration)
Chinese water torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_water_torture)
Choking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking)/Strangling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangling)
Crushing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crushing)
Cutting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting)
Denailing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denailing)
Disfigurement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfigurement)
Drowning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning)
Dunking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunking)
Flagellation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation)
Flaying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying)
Foot roasting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_roasting)
Foot whipping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_whipping)
Force-feeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding)
Garrotting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote)
Genital mutilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genital_mutilation)/forced circumcision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_circumcision)
Glasgow smile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_smile)
Hamstringing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamstringing)
Kneecapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneecapping)
Keelhauling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keelhauling)
Mutilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutilation)
Oxygen deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_deprivation)
Picquet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picquet)
Pitchcapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitchcapping)
Pressure points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_points)
Rat torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_torture)
Riding the Rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_the_Rail)
Sexual assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault)
Sawing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawing_(torture))
Scalping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping)
Scaphism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaphism)
Sleep deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation)
Sound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound) (extremely high volumes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier), dynamic range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range), low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency), high pitched noise, intended to interfere with rest, cognition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognition) and concentration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration)).
Starvation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation)
Strappado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strappado)/squassation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squassation) (also known as "reverse hanging" and "Palestinian hanging")
Stress positions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_positions)
Ta'liq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%27liq_(torture)) hanging from a metal bar.
Tarring and feathering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarring_and_feathering)
Tickle torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickle_torture)
Tooth extraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraction_(dental))
Water cure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Cure_(torture))
Waterboarding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding)

road kill
05-09-2011, 02:45 PM
But hey, why stop at waterboarding why don't we try:


Abacination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacination)
Beatings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_(attack)) and physical violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_abuse)
Blinding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindness) with light
Boiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_to_death)
Bone breaking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_breaking)
Branding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_branding)
Castration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration)
Chinese water torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_water_torture)
Choking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking)/Strangling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangling)
Crushing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crushing)
Cutting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting)
Denailing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denailing)
Disfigurement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfigurement)
Drowning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning)
Dunking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunking)
Flagellation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation)
Flaying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying)
Foot roasting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_roasting)
Foot whipping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_whipping)
Force-feeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding)
Garrotting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote)
Genital mutilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genital_mutilation)/forced circumcision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_circumcision)
Glasgow smile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_smile)
Hamstringing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamstringing)
Kneecapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneecapping)
Keelhauling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keelhauling)
Mutilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutilation)
Oxygen deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_deprivation)
Picquet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picquet)
Pitchcapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitchcapping)
Pressure points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_points)
Rat torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_torture)
Riding the Rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_the_Rail)
Sexual assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault)
Sawing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawing_(torture))
Scalping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping)
Scaphism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaphism)
Sleep deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation)
Sound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound) (extremely high volumes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier), dynamic range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range), low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency), high pitched noise, intended to interfere with rest, cognition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognition) and concentration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration)).
Starvation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation)
Strappado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strappado)/squassation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squassation) (also known as "reverse hanging" and "Palestinian hanging")
Stress positions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_positions)
Ta'liq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%27liq_(torture)) hanging from a metal bar.
Tarring and feathering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarring_and_feathering)
Tickle torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickle_torture)
Tooth extraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraction_(dental))
Water cure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Cure_(torture))
Waterboarding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding)

Why not???:cool:

In fact, if Obama wanted to do it.....you would volunteer for it!!!:D



RK

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 02:55 PM
bin Laden will be judged when he meets his maker.;-) and no, I do not feel sorry for him.

badbullgator
05-09-2011, 03:14 PM
But hey, why stop at waterboarding why don't we try:


Abacination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacination)
Beatings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_(attack)) and physical violence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_abuse)
Blinding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindness) with light
Boiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_to_death)
Bone breaking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_breaking)
Branding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_branding)
Castration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration)
Chinese water torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_water_torture)
Choking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking)/Strangling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangling)
Crushing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crushing)
Cutting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting)
Denailing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denailing)
Disfigurement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfigurement)
Drowning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning)
Dunking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunking)
Flagellation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation)
Flaying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying)
Foot roasting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_roasting)
Foot whipping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_whipping)
Force-feeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding)
Garrotting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote)
Genital mutilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genital_mutilation)/forced circumcision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_circumcision)
Glasgow smile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_smile)
Hamstringing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamstringing)
Kneecapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneecapping)
Keelhauling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keelhauling)
Mutilation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutilation)
Oxygen deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_deprivation)
Picquet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picquet)
Pitchcapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitchcapping)
Pressure points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_points)
Rat torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_torture)
Riding the Rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_the_Rail)
Sexual assault (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault)
Sawing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawing_(torture))
Scalping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping)
Scaphism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaphism)
Sleep deprivation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation)
Sound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound) (extremely high volumes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier), dynamic range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range), low frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency), high pitched noise, intended to interfere with rest, cognition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognition) and concentration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration)).
Starvation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation)
Strappado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strappado)/squassation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squassation) (also known as "reverse hanging" and "Palestinian hanging")
Stress positions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_positions)
Ta'liq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%27liq_(torture)) hanging from a metal bar.
Tarring and feathering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarring_and_feathering)
Tickle torture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tickle_torture)
Tooth extraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraction_(dental))
Water cure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Cure_(torture))
Waterboarding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding)


I am fine with all of the above.

luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 03:37 PM
I don't know, I have never had a boat tipped over on top of me. There is always the chance of getting hit in the head and sinking to the bottom of the lake.

It was done in a controled manner. THat aside, you have a very strong opinion about waterboarding.
Does that mean based on your reply to the other situation that "you have been waterboarded" and are speaking from personal experience??:rolleyes:
Afterall you won't comment on the other situation since it has not been done to you. :rolleyes:

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 04:14 PM
Why not???:cool:

In fact, if Obama wanted to do it.....you would volunteer for it!!!:D



RK
You know, it must really chap your a$$ that it only took President obama 2 1/2 years what your boy couldn't do in 8 years.;-) Of course Obama did not give up either. Does "I don't know where bin Laden is and I don't care where he is" sound familiar? Then again obama was not looking past Afghanistan to invade another Country. Oh, and in invading another sovern Country, how about all those unarmed men, women and children that have been killed in Iraq.

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 04:17 PM
It was done in a controled manner. THat aside, you have a very strong opinion about waterboarding.
Does that mean based on your reply to the other situation that "you have been waterboarded" and are speaking from personal experience??:rolleyes:
Afterall you won't comment on the other situation since it has not been done to you. :rolleyes:

No, i have never been waterboarded. As far as the other situation I don't know what to say. I know I swam under the swimming/diving platform many times at the local swimming pond where the water was murky and couldn't see a foot in front of you. But if in order to be certified you had to get a boat dumped on top of you at night in a dark lake then that is something you either did and got certified or didn't do and did not get certified. I know I never had to do any of that to get certified.

Ken Bora
05-09-2011, 04:25 PM
You know, it must really chap your a$$ that it only took President obama 2 1/2 years what your boy couldn't do in 8 years.;-) .....

don't it remind you of a Tom Petty Song?
this is a great version, might he borrow Our commander in chief's teleprompter?
clink this link - -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GenHpuyiDug



.

IowaBayDog
05-09-2011, 05:06 PM
You know, it must really chap your a$$ that it only took President obama 2 1/2 years what your boy couldn't do in 8 years.;-) Of course Obama did not give up either. Does "I don't know where bin Laden is and I don't care where he is" sound familiar? Then again obama was not looking past Afghanistan to invade another Country. Oh, and in invading another sovern Country, how about all those unarmed men, women and children that have been killed in Iraq.


Perhaps you've heard of this little Kerfuffle going on in Libya??

US Special Forces and Intelligence got Bin Laden, he was being hid by our "closest ally" in the war on terror. Interrogations, yes harsh interrogations got him, Leon Panetta point blank said so, whether you want to believe your fellow liberal or not. Or is Leon lying to protect Bush too??

If Bush had order this strike you'd be screaming about violating due process and murder and such. Obama has now targeted U.S. citizens suspected of terror for assisination, do you agree with this policy? See Anwar al-Awlaki if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm sure DailyKos is silent on the subject.

Clay Rogers
05-09-2011, 05:23 PM
You know, it must really chap your a$$ that it only took President obama 2 1/2 years what your boy couldn't do in 8 years.;-) Of course Obama did not give up either. Does "I don't know where bin Laden is and I don't care where he is" sound familiar? Then again obama was not looking past Afghanistan to invade another Country. Oh, and in invading another sovern Country, how about all those unarmed men, women and children that have been killed in Iraq.


Never go full retard Roger. Can you have one conversation and not bring up the past president? Stay focused on the arguement at hand Simple Jack.

And as far as Obama doing anything, unless he was in your SEAL class, I wasn't aware he did anything but ok what other people planned and implemented based on intel that someone else gathered.

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 05:34 PM
Perhaps you've heard of this little Kerfuffle going on in Libya??

US Special Forces and Intelligence got Bin Laden, he was being hid by our "closest ally" in the war on terror. Interrogations, yes harsh interrogations got him, Leon Panetta point blank said so, whether you want to believe your fellow liberal or not. Or is Leon lying to protect Bush too??

If Bush had order this strike you'd be screaming about violating due process and murder and such. Obama has now targeted U.S. citizens suspected of terror for assisination, do you agree with this policy? See Anwar al-Awlaki if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm sure DailyKos is silent on the subject.

Why wouldn't Donald Rumsfeld be one of the first to confirm that waterboarding produced the information that led to the killing of bin Laden if that were true????????????

And here is one more question for you. It is now known that bin Laden has lived at the house where he was killed for the last 6 years. Obama has only been President for the last 2 1/2 years. Obama discontinued the use of waterboarding when he took office. If waterboarding produced the information that led to bin Ladens killing why didn't the Bush administration send in the SEALS to kill/capture bin Laden or at least bomb the complex where he lived while Bush was President so Bush could take credit for eliminating bin Laden???????????

Here is another source.
White House deputy national security advisor John Brennan Tuesday knocked down the myth that waterboarding provided crucial intelligence that led to the location of Osama bin Laden.
“So we’ve been talking about the different details and methods that lead up to this moment, and obviously there is word out today that waterboarding played a very big role or role in actually getting the information,” MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski told Brennan. “Is that the case?”
“Not to my knowledge,” Brennan explained.
“The information that was acquired over the course of nine years or so came from many different sources, human sources, technical sources, as well as information that detainees provided, and it was something that as a result of the painstaking work that the analysts did, they pieced it all together that led us to the Abbottabad compound and led us to the successful operation on sunday,” he added.
Fox News’ Fox Nation website claimed (http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/03/waterboarding-which-obama-campaigned-against-led-bin-laden-kill) Tuesday that waterboarding led to the death of bin Laden.
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/05/obama-advisor-waterboarding-didnt-lead-to-bin-laden-kill/
Another source
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/senate-intel-chair-torture-did-not-lead-to-bin-laden-in-any-way.php
another source
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2011/0505/Military-interrogators-Waterboarding-didn-t-yield-tips-that-led-to-bin-Laden

Ken Bora
05-09-2011, 05:41 PM
Obama has only been President for the last 2 1/2 years. Obama discontinued the use of waterboarding when he took office. If waterboarding produced the information that led to bin Ladens killing why didn't the Bush administration send in the SEALS

it took a while for the feller to forget to turn his phone off when he would visit his boss.

it took a while longer for him to get a phone call while visiting his boss.

what did the two of you talk about anyway?:cool:
 
 
.

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 06:01 PM
Never go full retard Roger. Can you have one conversation and not bring up the past president? Stay focused on the arguement at hand Simple Jack.

And as far as Obama doing anything, unless he was in your SEAL class, I wasn't aware he did anything but ok what other people planned and implemented based on intel that someone else gathered.

By that line of thinking Bush did not start the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq because "other people planned and implemented the attacks.";-)

M&K's Retrievers
05-09-2011, 06:05 PM
don't it remind you of a Tom Petty Song?
this is a great version, might he borrow Our commander in chief's teleprompter?
clink this link - -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GenHpuyiDug



.

There you go posting a link again.;)

Ken Bora
05-09-2011, 06:08 PM
By that line of thinking Bush did not start the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq because "other people planned and implemented the attacks.";-)


did you just type it was
NOT THE FAULT OF GEORGE BUSH??????
I gotta turn on the news, I think Hell Just Froze over!
would msnbc carry that story? I might need a link;-)


.

Mark Sehon
05-09-2011, 07:22 PM
Wow!!!! Poor fellow?

Al VanHoey
05-09-2011, 07:54 PM
Where do I send your one way ticket? As your travel agent, I will pick a nice cozy mud hut, so you can sit around sip tea and talk about how violent the US is in its torture methods. All the while you strap a bomb vest on a school child to go and kill US Servicemen who happen to handing out tables and pencils that day.
As a vetran who served my country for 22 years, allowing people like you freedoms to enjoy makes me sick. I truly hope you check your status in this life to see who's side you are on.
Oh and Roger, how many friends and family did you have killed on 9-11?

Thank you very much for your service! I do have a quick question. Has there been a fund established to contribute to Roger's ticket? If so, I would love to contribute. As a veteran also, it sickens me to know that I was willing to lay my life on the line so that EXTREMISTS like him can spout off the way he does! God Bless America!

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Thank you very much for your service! I do have a quick question. Has there been a fund established to contribute to Roger's ticket? If so, I would love to contribute. As a veteran also, it sickens me to know that I was willing to lay my life on the line so that EXTREMISTS like him can spout off the way he does! God Bless America!

CIA director Michael Hayden confirmed in an open session of Congress Tuesday his agency's use of an interrogation technique many consider torture -- a technique at the center of a national debate on the treatment of U.S. detainees in the war on terror and in the war in Iraq.
In acknowledging that CIA officers and contractors used waterboarding on three "high-value" detainees, Hayden revealed information nearly identical to that shared by a former CIA officer last December with ABC News, which prompted the CIA to request a criminal prosecution.
Until Hayden's comments before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence today, no senior U.S. intelligence official had publicly acknowledged the technique.
Hayden, who prohibited the practice of waterboarding by CIA agents in 2006, confirmed that his agency waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim Nashiri, in efforts to compel the men to talk. He told senators the agency believed at the time "that additional catastrophic attacks were imminent." The men told CIA interrogators things that "led to reliable information," Hayden told reporters after the hearing.
http://a.abcnews.com//images/Blotter/waterboarding_3suspects_080205_mn.jpg




The CIA chief asserted to reporters later that Mohammed and Zubaydah had provided roughly 25 percent of the information the CIA had on al Qaeda from human sources.
ABC News first disclosed that the men were waterboarded in November 2005. On Dec. 10, 2007, former CIA officer John Kirakou, who participated in the capture of Abu Zubaydah, appeared on ABC News and discussed his conflicted feelings over the use of the technique. Kiriakou said waterboarding was effective, and a technique he might use again. He noted, however, it was also a technique he was uncomfortable with.

Some intelligence officials who reviewed reports based on those interrogations have challenged the idea they provided useful information.
Hayden told lawmakers the agency had not used waterboarding in almost five years, publicly confirming information that was first reported by ABC News last year. He asked the lawmakers not to create new laws that would limit CIA interrogators. "One should not expect them to play outside the box because we've entered a new period of threat or danger to the nation, OK? So there's no wink and nod here," he said. "If you create the box, we will play inside the box without exception."
At the time a presidential finding was signed in 2002 approving the use of harsh interrogation techniques including waterboarding, one of the CIA's most senior officials registered his objections to the technique, which a senior intelligence official failed to acknowledge today when he stated on the condition of anonymity that the current debate over the use of the technique is troubling to intelligence professionals. In fact, a number of intelligence professionals, current and former, object to the use of the technique.

It sounds like you not me is the extreemist.;-)
If waterboarding was discontinued in 2006 and the information from waterboarding was helpful in tracking down bin Laden why did then President Bush not capture or kill bin Laden???????????? He had 2 years to do so and did nothing. bin Laden was living in the same house since 2005.

If these terrorists are as irrational as you say they are, and I believe them to be, who are willing to blow themselves up for their cause do you really believe that waterboarding will get them to give up their secrets???????????

Clay Rogers
05-09-2011, 08:40 PM
By that line of thinking Bush did not start the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq because "other people planned and implemented the attacks.";-)


Winner, Winner chicken dinner!!!!!!!!!! By God, Simple Jack, you finally figured it out. He didn't start the wars, the terrorists that attacked us did. Wouldn't you agree?

Ken Bora
05-09-2011, 08:44 PM
By God, Simple Jack, you finally figured it out.

it is kind of funny that arguing with us brought him around to the truth.:cool:




.

Clay Rogers
05-09-2011, 08:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah7HQBdvyko&feature=related

Here ya go Rog.

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 08:48 PM
Winner, Winner chicken dinner!!!!!!!!!! By God, Simple Jack, you finally figured it out. He didn't start the wars, the terrorists that attacked us did. Wouldn't you agree?

The terrorists flew planes into the world trade center. There was a possibility even that could have been stopped if the Bush administration had heeded the warnings they got months before 9/11/2001.

As far as iraq, when did they attack us. I found an article that even the conservatives felt it was a mistake to go to war with Iraq.


Conservatives Against a War with Iraqby Rep. John J. Duncan
March 6, 2003

Most people do not realize how many conservatives are against going to war in Iraq.

A strong majority of nationally-syndicated conservative columnists have come out against this war. Just three of many examples I could give include the following:

Charley Reese, a staunch conservative, who was selected a couple of years ago as the favorite columnist of C-Span viewers, wrote that a U.S. attack on Iraq: "is a prescription for the decline and fall of the American empire. Overextension – urged on by a bunch of rabid intellectuals who wouldn't know one end of a gun from another – has doomed many an empire. Just let the United States try to occupy the Middle East, which will be the practical result of a war against Iraq, and Americans will be bled dry by the costs in both blood and treasure."

Paul Craig Roberts, who was one of the highest-ranking Treasury Department officials under President Reagan and now a nationally-syndicated conservative columnist, wrote: "an invasion of Iraq is likely the most thoughtless action in modern history."

James Webb, a hero in Vietnam and President Reagan's Secretary of the Navy, wrote: "The issue before us is not whether the United States should end the regime of Saddam Hussein, but whether we as a nation are prepared to occupy territory in the Middle East for the next 30 to 50 years."

It is a traditional conservative position to be against huge deficit spending.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated that a very short war followed by a five-year occupation of Iraq would cost the U.S. $272 billion, this on top of an estimated $350 billion deficit for the coming fiscal year.

It is a traditional conservative position to be against the U.S. being the policeman of the world. That is exactly what we will be doing if we go to war in Iraq.

It is a traditional conservative position to be against world government, because conservatives believe that government is less wasteful and arrogant when it is small and closer to the people.

It is a traditional conservative position to be critical of, skeptical about, even opposed to the very wasteful, corrupt United Nations, yet the primary justification for this war, what we hear over and over again, is that Iraq has violated 16 U.N. resolutions.

Well, other nations have violated U.N. resolutions, yet we have not threatened war against them.

It is a traditional conservative position to believe it is unfair to U.S. taxpayers and our military to put almost the entire burden of enforcing U.N. resolutions on the U.S., yet that is exactly what will happen in a war against Iraq.

In fact, it is already happening, because even if Hussein backs down now it will cost us billions of dollars in war preparations and moving so many of our troops, planes, ships, and equipment to the Middle East.

It is a traditional conservative position to be against huge foreign aid, which has been almost a complete failure for many years now.

Talk about huge foreign aid – Turkey is demanding $26 to $32 billion according to most reports. Israel wants $12 to $15 billion additional aid. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia want additional aid in unspecified amounts.

Almost every country that is supporting the U.S. in this war effort wants something in return. The cost of all these requests have not been added in to most of the war cost calculations.

All this to fight a bad man who has a total military budget of about $1.4 billion, less than 3/10 of one percent of ours.

The White House said Hussein has less than 40% of the weaponry and manpower that he had at the time of the first Gulf War. One analyst estimated only about 20%.

His troops surrendered then to camera crews or even in one case to an empty tank. Hussein has been weakened further by years of bombing and economic sanctions and embargos.

He is an evil man, but he is no threat to us, and if this war comes about, it will probably be one of the shortest and certainly one of the most lopsided wars in history.

Our own CIA put out a report just a few days before our War Resolution vote saying that Hussein was so weak economically and militarily he was really not capable of attacking anyone unless forced into it. He really controls very little outside the city of Baghdad.

The Washington Post, two days ago, had a column by Al Kamen which said: "The war in Iraq, likely in the next few weeks, is not expected to last long, given the overwhelming U.S. firepower to be arrayed against the Iraqis. But the trickier job may be in the aftermath, when Washington plans to install an administrator, or viceroy, who would direct postwar reconstruction of the place."

Fortune magazine said: "Iraq – We win. What then?" "A military victory could turn into a strategic defeat. . . . A prolonged, expensive, American-led occupation . . . could turn U.S. troops into sitting ducks for Islamic terrorists. . . . All of that could have immediate and negative consequences for the global economy."

Not only have most conservative columnists come out strongly against this war, but also at least four conservative magazines and two conservative think tanks.

One conservative Republican member of the other Body (Sen. Hagel) said last week that the "rush to war in Iraq could backfire" and asked: "We are wrecking coalitions, relationships and alliances so we can get a two-week start on going to war alone?"

The Atlantic Monthly magazine said we would spend so much money in Iraq we might as well make it the 51st state. I believe most conservatives would rather that money be spent here instead of 7,000 miles away.

It is a traditional conservative position to be in favor of a strong national defense, not one that turns our soldiers into international social workers, and to believe in a noninterventionist foreign policy rather than in globalism or internationalism.

We should be friends with all nations, but we will weaken our own nation, maybe irreversibly unless we follow the more humble foreign policy the President advocated in his campaign.

Finally, it is very much against every conservative tradition to support preemptive war.

Another member of the other Body, the Senator from West Virginia, Senator Byrd, not a conservative but certainly one with great knowledge of and respect for history and tradition said recently:

"This is no simple attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it materializes, represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and possibly a turning point in the recent history of the world. This nation is about to embark upon the first test of the revolutionary doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The doctrine of preemption – the idea that the United States or any other nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently threatening but may be threatening in the future – is a radical new twist on the traditional idea of self-defense."

The columnist William Raspberry, again not a conservative but one who sometimes takes conservative positions, wrote this week these words: "Why so fast. Because Hussein will stall the same way he's been stalling for a dozen years. A dozen years, by the way, during which he has attacked no one, gassed no one, launched terror attacks on no one. Tell me its because of American pressure that he has stayed his hand, and I say great. Isn't that better than a U.S.-launched war guaranteed to engender massive slaughter and spread terrorism?"

Throughout these remarks, I have said not one word critical of the President or any of his advisors or anyone on the other side of this issue.

I especially have not and will not criticize the fine men and women in our Nation's armed forces. They are simply following orders and attempting to serve this country in an honorable way.

Conservatives are generally not the types who participate in street demonstrations, especially ones led by people who say mean-spirited things about our President. But I do sincerely believe the true conservative position, the traditional conservative position is against this war.
Looks like much of what "the conservatives predicted came true and this was before the war in Iraq started.;-)

gman0046
05-09-2011, 08:49 PM
Count me in on the contribution for Perry's one way ticket out of our great country. Anything else I say about Perry might be considered UNCIVIL. It's nice to see I'm not the only one sick and tired of his anti American rhetoric. I originally thought Pakistan would be a good place for him to go but on second thought Kenya would probably be more appropriate.

I'm still trying to figure out why an adult would post "The Magic Gopher" on the RTF web site. My 7 year old Grandson and his friends were playing with that about a year ago. What's next, Sponge Bob? Sad.

huntinman
05-09-2011, 09:06 PM
You guys are wasting perfectly good brain cells. Ignore button regards...

Losthwy
05-09-2011, 09:07 PM
The US is a signatory to the Geneva Convention. Which makes torture a war crime. Ignoring that takes us to the moral low ground. What good is our word, the US signature on a treaty? Worthless?
To those that say," yeah, I'm good with that." Well, then you are equally good with our servicemen being tortured.
The info that led to the couriers came from many different sources. In regards to KSM. He was asked about the courier which he vaguely replied he knew him but the courier was not important. By his deception, it alerted the interrogators the courier was indeed important.

Ken Bora
05-09-2011, 09:16 PM
.... What good is our word, the US signature on a treaty? Worthless?......


.um, any Native American rtf members wanna take a stab at this one 'fore I ruin it on ya?:( :( :(
anyone?
 
 
 
 
.

luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 09:19 PM
The US is a signatory to the Geneva Convention. Which makes torture a war crime. Ignoring that takes us to the moral low ground. What good is our word, the US signature on a treaty? Worthless?
To those that say," yeah, I'm good with that." Well, then you are equally good with our servicemen being tortured.
The info that led to the couriers came from many different sources. In regards to KSM. He was asked about the courier which he vaguely replied he knew him but the courier was not important. By his deception, it alerted the interrogators the courier was indeed important.

One would first have to consider waterboarding torture for any of that to matter.
Waterboarding is hardly torture!

Losthwy
05-09-2011, 10:36 PM
.um, any Native American rtf members wanna take a stab at this one 'fore I ruin it on ya?:( :( :(
anyone?


That matter of record is equally appalling. Not all of our history we can be proud of. Though hopefully we have learn from it. The internment of American citizens of Japanese ancestry is another example of how expediency leads us to down the low road.

LUV
If water boarding isn't torture, getting your fingernails pulled out is a manicure.

luvmylabs23139
05-09-2011, 11:13 PM
LUV
If water boarding isn't torture, getting your fingernails pulled out is a manicure.


NO, fingernails is a whole other matter. That would be hell. Torn enough of them half way down the finger courtesy of dogs.

Roger Perry
05-09-2011, 11:20 PM
One would first have to consider waterboarding torture for any of that to matter.
Waterboarding is hardly torture!

Here is a point to ponder. What if the terrorists at GITMO actually go to court and they are represented by an attorney who argues that the terrorists were subject to waterboard torture and any evidence that was gained through the torture should be thrown out and the judge agrees. Do these terrorists walk because of the Bush administrations ordered/approved of the waterboarding?????????????

Clay Rogers
05-10-2011, 04:10 AM
Here is a point to ponder. What if the terrorists at GITMO actually go to court and they are represented by an attorney who argues that the terrorists were subject to waterboard torture and any evidence that was gained through the torture should be thrown out and the judge agrees. Do these terrorists walk because of the Bush administrations ordered/approved of the waterboarding?????????????


They don't deserve a trial. They deserve to sit where they are, until we have won the war on terror, or until they die, which ever comes first. They are prisoners of war, they don't have the rights afforded citizens of the United States of America. They chose to hit the battlefield and fight and kill our fellow soldiers, so now they have to deal with the end result. I guess we could treat their people like they treat ours. You know, set up some cameras, put on some masks, stand behind them with a machete and shout some jibberish and then cut their head off. That sound good to you Roger? Because it sure works for me.

As far as these articles you keep posting, it is the internet, I'm sure I can find one about Big Foot being captured if you like.

Roger Perry
05-10-2011, 06:54 AM
They don't deserve a trial. They deserve to sit where they are, until we have won the war on terror, or until they die, which ever comes first. They are prisoners of war, they don't have the rights afforded citizens of the United States of America. They chose to hit the battlefield and fight and kill our fellow soldiers, so now they have to deal with the end result. I guess we could treat their people like they treat ours. You know, set up some cameras, put on some masks, stand behind them with a machete and shout some jibberish and then cut their head off. That sound good to you Roger? Because it sure works for me.

As far as these articles you keep posting, it is the internet, I'm sure I can find one about Big Foot being captured if you like.

so if they are prisoners of war and we pull our military out of Iraq and Afghanistan does that mean we release these terrorists back to their origional Countries you know like the German and Japaneese POW's were released back to their Countries?????????????

Next to answer your question as to where I get these articles the one on Conservatives against the war with Iraq here is the link

CONSERVATIVES AGAINST A WAR WITH IRAQ

http://students.uis.edu/araut01s/hrblue01.gif

Note: This is a transcript of the speech delivered on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives on February 26, 2003 by U.S. Congressman John Duncan, Jr.

http://students.uis.edu/araut01s/duncan.html

Here is another speech by john Duncan Republican. This Senator is of the same political party that you belong to so I am suprised you do not share his views. By the way, John J. Duncan is still a Senator today. I am sure if you asked, huntinman will confirm Duncan as a Senator from his state of Tenn.
Bush's Iraq Intervention is Unconservative


by Rep. John J. Duncan
by Rep. John J. Duncan


House of Representatives, September 10, 2003

There is nothing conservative about the U.S. policy in Iraq.
Conservatives have never believed in massive foreign aid. Our occupation of Iraq has become the largest foreign aid program in the history of the world.
We are building or rebuilding thousands of Iraqi schools, giving free health care to Iraqi citizens, and even making back payments to the Iraqi military and Iraqi retirees.
Last week I read that we are sending 60,000 soccer balls there. Our Founding Fathers could not have foreseen this in their wildest dreams.
Conservatives have never favored huge deficit spending. We are now told our deficits will reach an astounding one trillion dollars counting this fiscal year and the next.
Supporters of the war scoffed at predictions that we would spend $200 to $300 billion in Iraq over the next 10 years.
Now, by the most conservative estimates, not counting many things that should be counted, the Iraqi operation will cost us $167 billion in just the first two years.
And because we are in such a deep fiscal hole already, we will have to borrow all these billions we are spending there.
Conservatives have never believed in world government and have been the biggest critics of the United Nations.
Yet some prominent war supporters, while criticizing the U.N. in one breath, would say in the next that we had to go to war to enforce all the U.N. resolutions that Saddam Hussein had violated.
If this is not world government, then what is? And why should we put almost the entire burden of enforcing U.N. resolutions on the U.S. military and American taxpayers? That is not conservative.
Conservatives have been strong supporters of national defense, not international defense.
Senator Robert Taft wrote: “No foreign policy can be justified except a policy devoted…to the protection of the liberty of the American people, with war only as the last resort and only to preserve that liberty.” Conservatives have never believed that the United States should be the policeman of the world.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/duncan2.html

Clay Rogers
05-10-2011, 07:27 AM
so if they are prisoners of war and we pull our military out of Iraq and Afghanistan does that mean we release these terrorists back to their origional Countries you know like the German and Japaneese POW's were released back to their Countries?????????????

Next to answer your question as to where I get these articles the one on Conservatives against the war with Iraq here is the link

CONSERVATIVES AGAINST A WAR WITH IRAQ

http://students.uis.edu/araut01s/hrblue01.gif

Note: This is a transcript of the speech delivered on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives on February 26, 2003 by U.S. Congressman John Duncan, Jr.

http://students.uis.edu/araut01s/duncan.html

Here is another speech by john Duncan Republican. This Senator is of the same political party that you belong to so I am suprised you do not share his views. By the way, John J. Duncan is still a Senator today. I am sure if you asked, huntinman will confirm Duncan as a Senator from his state of Tenn.
Bush's Iraq Intervention is Unconservative


by Rep. John J. Duncan
by Rep. John J. Duncan


House of Representatives, September 10, 2003

There is nothing conservative about the U.S. policy in Iraq.
Conservatives have never believed in massive foreign aid. Our occupation of Iraq has become the largest foreign aid program in the history of the world.
We are building or rebuilding thousands of Iraqi schools, giving free health care to Iraqi citizens, and even making back payments to the Iraqi military and Iraqi retirees.
Last week I read that we are sending 60,000 soccer balls there. Our Founding Fathers could not have foreseen this in their wildest dreams.
Conservatives have never favored huge deficit spending. We are now told our deficits will reach an astounding one trillion dollars counting this fiscal year and the next.
Supporters of the war scoffed at predictions that we would spend $200 to $300 billion in Iraq over the next 10 years.
Now, by the most conservative estimates, not counting many things that should be counted, the Iraqi operation will cost us $167 billion in just the first two years.
And because we are in such a deep fiscal hole already, we will have to borrow all these billions we are spending there.
Conservatives have never believed in world government and have been the biggest critics of the United Nations.
Yet some prominent war supporters, while criticizing the U.N. in one breath, would say in the next that we had to go to war to enforce all the U.N. resolutions that Saddam Hussein had violated.
If this is not world government, then what is? And why should we put almost the entire burden of enforcing U.N. resolutions on the U.S. military and American taxpayers? That is not conservative.
Conservatives have been strong supporters of national defense, not international defense.
Senator Robert Taft wrote: “No foreign policy can be justified except a policy devoted…to the protection of the liberty of the American people, with war only as the last resort and only to preserve that liberty.” Conservatives have never believed that the United States should be the policeman of the world.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/duncan2.html




One, I didn't ask where you got the articles, I said I could find one about bigfoot if you like. You constantly post these articles thinking they help you with your point, but they don't.

The bigger question Roger, is why do you have such a man crush on Bush? Did you meet him once and he turned you down and now you have a vendetta?

subroc
05-10-2011, 07:30 AM
...Conservatives have never believed in world government and have been the biggest critics of the United Nations...

I would be included in that group.

Roger Perry
05-10-2011, 07:46 AM
One, I didn't ask where you got the articles, I said I could find one about bigfoot if you like. You constantly post these articles thinking they help you with your point, but they don't.

The bigger question Roger, is why do you have such a man crush on Bush? Did you meet him once and he turned you down and now you have a vendetta?

More personal attacks, is that all you can do when you have no intelligent responses to bolster your side of the debate??????????????

So you are saying these articles by Senator John J. Duncan R TN are fake????????????????I present a conservative point of view and you do not agree with it?????????????

Clay Rogers
05-10-2011, 08:27 AM
More personal attacks, is that all you can do when you have no intelligent responses to bolster your side of the debate??????????????

So you are saying these articles by Senator John J. Duncan R TN are fake????????????????I present a conservative point of view and you do not agree with it?????????????

No, that is not what I am saying. WHAT I AM SAYING IS IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether you like it or not, Bush is gone, has been for 2 1/2 years. Its time for your President to take responsiblity for the shape of things around here. You can no longer blame Bush for the way things are. Your President has not helped this country one bit. He has re-nigged on all of his campaign promises, except healthcare(which more than half the country doesn't like). You would be taken more serious if you started focusing on the now instead of the past. What say you?

subroc
05-10-2011, 08:30 AM
More personal attacks, is that all you can do when you have no intelligent responses to bolster your side of the debate??????????????

So you are saying these articles by Senator John J. Duncan R TN are fake????????????????I present a conservative point of view and you do not agree with it?????????????

You presented a RepublicanS point of view not a conservative point of view. How or whether someone believes in military action has or should have nothing to do with political party.

You used the opposite argument in your abortion post in this thread.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70540

road kill
05-10-2011, 08:45 AM
Here is a point to ponder. What if the terrorists at GITMO actually go to court and they are represented by an attorney who argues that the terrorists were subject to waterboard torture and any evidence that was gained through the torture should be thrown out and the judge agrees. Do these terrorists walk because of the Bush administrations ordered/approved of the waterboarding?????????????


What are you gonna do, have Obama bring Bin Laden back to life???:cool:


RK

Roger Perry
05-10-2011, 12:06 PM
No, that is not what I am saying. WHAT I AM SAYING IS IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether you like it or not, Bush is gone, has been for 2 1/2 years. Its time for your President to take responsiblity for the shape of things around here. You can no longer blame Bush for the way things are. Your President has not helped this country one bit. He has re-nigged on all of his campaign promises, except healthcare(which more than half the country doesn't like). You would be taken more serious if you started focusing on the now instead of the past. What say you?

This thread is about waterboarding. Waterboarding took place during the last Presidents term in office and stopped in 2006.

Roger Perry
05-10-2011, 12:08 PM
What are you gonna do, have Obama bring Bin Laden back to life???:cool:


RK

I am all for what fate handed to bin Laden. Too bad it did not happen sooner.;-)

road kill
05-10-2011, 12:09 PM
I am all for what fate handed to bin Laden. Too bad it did not happen sooner.;-)

What would have been better had it happened sooner??


RK

Roger Perry
05-10-2011, 12:40 PM
What would have been better had it happened sooner??


RK

If it had happened sooner as in 2001/2002 we may not still be in Afghanistan.;-) I really don't care who got him, he is gone now.

luvmylabs23139
05-10-2011, 12:46 PM
If it had happened sooner as in 2001/2002 we may not still be in Afghanistan.;-) I really don't care who got him, he is gone now.


And if Clinton had gotten him when he had the chance the towers would still be standing, 3000 people would not have been killed and we may never have gone to A'stan.

Roger Perry
05-10-2011, 12:57 PM
And if Clinton had gotten him when he had the chance the towers would still be standing, 3000 people would not have been killed and we may never have gone to A'stan.

Clinton was not warned by the CIA that the al Qaeda was planning an attack on american soil like Bush was warned and Bush took no action to try to stop it.

If you will read the accounts, bin Laden was not positively identified by the drone miles up in the air. The drone did not have any bombs attatched to it. Clinton was in favor of capturing bin Laden instead of trying to drop bombs on him. Bush let bin laden get away when he was surrounded in Bora Bora. And, didn't bush say just a year after 9/11 he did not know where bin Laden was nor did he care???????????? Our present President made a statement that bin Laden was a priority target. Thank God he did not give up on his search for bin Laden.;-)

Trying to play nice and got a smart a$$ answer back. regards

Nor_Cal_Angler
05-10-2011, 01:11 PM
If Bush was looking for him in the BORA BORA MTS...then as was stated he didn't know where he was...

now had he been looking in the TORA BORA MTS...then he may have had a chance.....;-);-)

SMART ASS REMARKS regards...

NCA

Roger Perry
05-10-2011, 01:12 PM
If Bush was looking for him in the BORA BORA MTS...then as was stated he didn't know where he was...

now had he been looking in the TORA BORA MTS...then he may have had a chance.....;-);-)

SMART ASS REMARKS regards...

NCA

SMART ASS REMARK accepted/deserved.;-) My mistake.

Sue Kiefer
05-10-2011, 01:26 PM
Countries like Afgan, Iran, Pakistan etc..........are NOT like the USA.
I like to think that we are more civilized.
And yes, I feared for my nephew everyday when he served 2 tours over there.
But do we really need to stoop to their level??
And because these people live lives filled with violence everyday, do you really think torture is the answer??
An eye for an eye?? really ??
Sounds like their philosophy:-x
Sue

Buzz
05-10-2011, 02:42 PM
Countries like Afgan, Iran, Pakistan etc..........are NOT like the USA.
I like to think that we are more civilized.
And yes, I feared for my nephew everyday when he served 2 tours over there.
But do we really need to stoop to their level??
And because these people live lives filled with violence everyday, do you really think torture is the answer??
An eye for an eye?? really ??
Sounds like their philosophy:-x
Sue

I love hearing people try and claim that water boarding is not torture. I think that Luv said that it wasn't torture, but pulling fingernails was. :confused:

I think that saying that a procedure that if taken just a little too far will cause damage to the lungs, brain, and other organs, and possibly death isn't torture is just a little odd.

Losthwy
05-10-2011, 03:37 PM
He has re-nigged on all of his campaign promises, except healthcare.... What say you?

Rhetoric is what say I. Not even close to being factual. Is this your opinion or from some radical right wing source? If other than opinion, where did you get this BS?
Well taking the opportunity to capture or kill Bin Laden if the opportunity presented itself would make two promises kept.
And here are a pile more.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/

road kill
05-10-2011, 03:39 PM
I love hearing people try and claim that water boarding is not torture. I think that Luv said that it wasn't torture, but pulling fingernails was. :confused:

I think that saying that a procedure that if taken just a little too far will cause damage to the lungs, brain, and other organs, and possibly death isn't torture is just a little odd.

Really??

Why do you "love" it???


RK

M&K's Retrievers
05-10-2011, 03:40 PM
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas. Clinton didn't get him but he shudda. Bush didn't get him cause he couldn't. Obama stumbled on to him and got him.

Who cares who got him just as long as he's got.

Blind hog finds an acorn, regards.

Cody Covey
05-10-2011, 04:09 PM
I love hearing people try and claim that water boarding is not torture. I think that Luv said that it wasn't torture, but pulling fingernails was. :confused:

I think that saying that a procedure that if taken just a little too far will cause damage to the lungs, brain, and other organs, and possibly death isn't torture is just a little odd.

Drinking water will do all of those things...should we not give them water because it "can be taken just a little too far"?

Hew
05-10-2011, 04:59 PM
This thread is about waterboarding. Waterboarding took place during the last Presidents term in office and stopped in 2006.
Yeah, thank goodness we stopped waterboarding and just stepped up the rendition of even more of them to other third world sh!tholes so that others could waterboard them (and/or worse) for us. At least we're not doing it ourselves...because that's so uncivilized...so George Bush.

Whatever helps lefty pointy heads get to sleep at night, right?

Clay Rogers
05-10-2011, 05:04 PM
Rhetoric is what say I. Not even close to being factual. Is this your opinion or from some radical right wing source? If other than opinion, where did you get this BS?
Well taking the opportunity to capture or kill Bin Laden if the opportunity presented itself would make two promises kept.
And here are a pile more.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/

I do not listen to radical right wing sources. I happen to be old enough to formulate my own opinion. As I told Roger in another thread, its just that, my opinion, not the gospel. But the mere fact that there is a website to keep up with how many of his campaign promises he keeps is funny as hell. And did you notice that the majority of these promises he "kept" are unfunded promises and most are for programs that give people money for doing nothing. We call that welfare around these parts. But I didn't see closing Gitmo, trying the gitmo detainees, fixing the economy. These are just a few, but I am sure I can come up with some more if I tried even a little.

blind ambition
05-10-2011, 06:20 PM
Yeah, thank goodness we stopped waterboarding and just stepped up the rendition of even more of them to other third world sh!tholes so that others could waterboard them (and/or worse) for us. At least we're not doing it ourselves...because that's so uncivilized...so George Bush.

Whatever helps lefty pointy heads get to sleep at night, right?

It is worse thing by far to out source barbarity than to practice it and stand by the consequences. The right and left hoist themselves on their own petards looking for any comfort on this issue while ignoring the issue in its entirety.

Nor_Cal_Angler
05-10-2011, 08:19 PM
SMART ASS REMARK accepted/deserved.;-) My mistake.

Roger,

Glad you can see the humor....:razz::razz:

NCA

PS...Because if UBL was in BORA BORA....and BUSH was looking there...we all know it would be chalked up to another VACATION!!!!!!!!!;-);-)

JDogger
05-10-2011, 09:12 PM
Lets see now, is waterboarding torture?

Well if it isn't, why would it be used as a means to force information from uncompliant subjects? Because it feels good?

You feel like you may die if you do not say what is expected of you to say.

Of course that information is believed to be true and accurate...eh?

"I'll say anything they want to hear, if they stop making me feel like I'm going to die."

So....why don't we use it to force confessions from criminal suspects as a common practice?

Anybody?

M&K's Retrievers
05-10-2011, 10:35 PM
"

So....why don't we use it to force confessions from criminal suspects as a common practice?

Anybody?

Maybe because we are not at war with criminals and maybe because the common criminals information wouldn't save lives. Please don't give terrorists the same dignity/status as bank robbers.

Jack Bauer regards,

Losthwy
05-10-2011, 11:14 PM
Lets see now, is waterboarding torture?

Well if it isn't, why would it be used as a means to force information from uncompliant subjects? Because it feels good?

You feel like you may die if you do not say what is expected of you to say.

Of course that information is believed to be true and accurate...eh?

"I'll say anything they want to hear, if they stop making me feel like I'm going to die."

So....why don't we use it to force confessions from criminal suspects as a common practice?

Anybody?
J
This relates to the research Stanley Milgram and Bob Altemeyer did on obedience to authority. I have been reading about them in Conservatives Without Conscience, "...right-wing authoritarians are intolerant of criticism of their authorities, because they feel the authority is unassailably correct." To apply their tenants- people know torture is morally wrong. But right-wing authoritarians set aside their conscience, their moral views; due to an authority figure leading them to do or condone an immoral act.

M&K's Retrievers
05-11-2011, 12:33 AM
J
This relates to the research Stanley Milgram and Bob Altemeyer did on obedience to authority. I have been reading about them in Conservatives Without Conscience, "...right-wing authoritarians are intolerant of criticism of their authorities, because they feel the authority is unassailably correct." To apply their tenants- people know torture is morally wrong. But right-wing authoritarians set aside their conscience, their moral views; due to an authority figure leading them to do or condone an immoral act.

Perhaps you should add Mein Kamph to your reading list.

cosmo38655
05-11-2011, 01:11 AM
whatever it takes.......

road kill
05-11-2011, 06:09 AM
J
This relates to the research Stanley Milgram and Bob Altemeyer did on obedience to authority. I have been reading about them in Conservatives Without Conscience, "...right-wing authoritarians are intolerant of criticism of their authorities, because they feel the authority is unassailably correct." To apply their tenants- people know torture is morally wrong. But right-wing authoritarians set aside their conscience, their moral views; due to an authority figure leading them to do or condone an immoral act.

Interesting, you quote the works of a Harvard progressive and a Canadian socialist/progressive, both expressing in their writings a clear hatred for America (much like you).

I am beginning to beleive you are Jdoggers sister!!:rolleyes:


RK

cotts135
05-11-2011, 06:52 AM
A good reason why Waterboarding is torture is because it is deemed so by the Geneva Convention. Something else needs to be said also. Using Waterboarding as a means of extracting information will occasionally get you the intelligience you are looking for so it would be foolish to argue that Waterboarding will never work.The question is are there better ways?
Many professionals in this field feel there are.

As a crewmember of a KC-135A tanker, I was required to go through what they call today Seres training. So I do have some firsthand knowledge of Enhanced interrogation techniques minus the Waterboarding.

Roger Perry
05-11-2011, 07:10 AM
Interesting, you quote the works of a Harvard progressive and a Canadian socialist/progressive, both expressing in their writings a clear hatred for America (much like you).

I am beginning to beleive you are Jdoggers sister!!:rolleyes:


RK

So the only opinions that are correct are seen through the eyes of the right??????????? When you do not agree with anothers views the right goes right back to name calling/insults.:confused:

road kill
05-11-2011, 07:35 AM
So the only opinions that are correct are seen through the eyes of the right??????????? When you do not agree with anothers views the right goes right back to name calling/insults.:confused:
Jdoggers sister is an insult?

Really??
I meant that they were of the same political ideology.

I'll tell you something Roger, if you think you are gonna come on here and post your progressive talking points you pick up from blogs and post as though they are fact and not get called on it, you are dumber than I thought.

You make stuff up, post half of the story and rant as though you are the saviour of the peopole.

Your credibility is near 0 as a result.

Now, you think I am too far to the right, yet many think I am not far enough to the right.

If I see left wing progressive liberal psycho babble (like what Losthiway posted) I will call it out in my way.
If I see you quoteing blogs with your left wing progressive liberal bias, I will call it.

You assume we are all to dumb to know where your crap comes from.
(in specific the crap you post about WI, some of it is partially true, from blogs and biased sources, but not totally true)

I try to keep my posts short sweet and simple, so as even the weakest in cognitive reasoning skill sets can comprehend them.
Perhaps I have failed.


Now, why don't you report me?;-)


RK


BTW---approx 85% of US Navy SEALS are recommended for the position by superior officers, instructors or fellow serviceman.
They come from the Naval Academy or the Navy, USCG and the USMC.
The first step is an intense vetting and psychological analysis.
You can volunteer for the vetting process, but you do NOT sign up for it.
To me, being a US Navy SEAL would be the ultimate job.
Frankly, I didn't have what it takes to be one.

Losthwy
05-11-2011, 10:29 AM
Perhaps you should add Mein Kamph to your reading list.

And add "Eichmann in Jerusalum" by Hannah Arendt. You ever wonder why a person follows a fascist leader and commits horrible acts?

road kill
05-11-2011, 12:22 PM
And add "Eichmann in Jerusalum" by Hannah Arendt. You ever wonder why a person follows a fascist leader and commits horrible acts?

Please tell us??

RK

caryalsobrook
05-11-2011, 12:28 PM
And add "Eichmann in Jerusalum" by Hannah Arendt. You ever wonder why a person follows a fascist leader and commits horrible acts?

Same reason they follow a socialist leader and commit horrible acts.

Losthwy
05-11-2011, 01:55 PM
Interesting, you quote the works of a Harvard progressive and a Canadian socialist/progressive, both expressing in their writings a clear hatred for America (much like you).
RK

Your use of rhetoric, and discard for critical thinking is unremarkable.

Roger Perry
05-11-2011, 01:55 PM
Jdoggers sister is an insult?

Really??
I meant that they were of the same political ideology.

I'll tell you something Roger, if you think you are gonna come on here and post your progressive talking points you pick up from blogs and post as though they are fact and not get called on it, you are dumber than I thought.

You make stuff up, post half of the story and rant as though you are the saviour of the peopole.

Your credibility is near 0 as a result.

Now, you think I am too far to the right, yet many think I am not far enough to the right.

If I see left wing progressive liberal psycho babble (like what Losthiway posted) I will call it out in my way.
If I see you quoteing blogs with your left wing progressive liberal bias, I will call it.

You assume we are all to dumb to know where your crap comes from.
(in specific the crap you post about WI, some of it is partially true, from blogs and biased sources, but not totally true)

I try to keep my posts short sweet and simple, so as even the weakest in cognitive reasoning skill sets can comprehend them.
Perhaps I have failed.


Now, why don't you report me?;-)


RK


BTW---approx 85% of US Navy SEALS are recommended for the position by superior officers, instructors or fellow serviceman.
They come from the Naval Academy or the Navy, USCG and the USMC.
The first step is an intense vetting and psychological analysis.
You can volunteer for the vetting process, but you do NOT sign up for it.
To me, being a US Navy SEAL would be the ultimate job.
Frankly, I didn't have what it takes to be one.

Some of the articles I make reference to are too long to post the whole article. I do take paragraphs of interest out of the article. I also reference the article so if anyone is interested he/she can read the article in whole for themselves so they can draw their own conclusions. ;-)

Nate_C
05-11-2011, 04:08 PM
A lot of the more conservative people on this board that are OK with water boarding or taking the hardest lines, also consider themselves religious right?

So here is my question. What would Jesus’ opinion be of water boarding?

huntinman
05-11-2011, 06:33 PM
A lot of the more conservative people on this board that are OK with water boarding or taking the hardest lines, also consider themselves religious right?

So here is my question. What would Jesus’ opinion be of water boarding?

What would His opinion be of flying airplanes into crowded buildings? Or bedeading innocent people? Or sexually mutilating little girls? Or raping female reporters in broad daylight on public streets? Or stoning women to death for reporting that they had been raped and not having the "proper" proof? If you feel so protective of savages, I would like to see you express you beliefs to those same animals.

road kill
05-11-2011, 07:01 PM
A lot of the more conservative people on this board that are OK with water boarding or taking the hardest lines, also consider themselves religious right?

So here is my question. What would Jesus’ opinion be of water boarding?

....or killing babies??



RK

teddyg
05-11-2011, 07:48 PM
What would His opinion be of flying airplanes into crowded buildings? Or bedeading innocent people? Or sexually mutilating little girls? Or raping female reporters in broad daylight on public streets? Or stoning women to death for reporting that they had been raped and not having the "proper" proof? If you feel so protective of savages, I would like to see you express you beliefs to those same animals.

Excellent reply.

Clay Rogers
05-11-2011, 08:48 PM
A good reason why Waterboarding is torture is because it is deemed so by the Geneva Convention. Something else needs to be said also. Using Waterboarding as a means of extracting information will occasionally get you the intelligience you are looking for so it would be foolish to argue that Waterboarding will never work.The question is are there better ways?
Many professionals in this field feel there are.

As a crewmember of a KC-135A tanker, I was required to go through what they call today Seres training. So I do have some firsthand knowledge of Enhanced interrogation techniques minus the Waterboarding.


SERE training. And waterboarding is a joke compared to some of the crap they do to you there.

Roger Perry
05-11-2011, 09:05 PM
SERE training. And waterboarding is a joke compared to some of the crap they do to you there.

Just because the Germans preformed medical experiments on innocent people we should do the same????????????????? Just because the Japaneese preformed henious crimes on our military personnel we should do the same???????????????

Just because these terrorists kill the the people they capture does that mean we have to get down in the mud with them and stoop to their level??????????????

I don't believe any of Countries where the terriorists hail from signed the treaty of the Geneva Convention that made torture illegal. However, the Untied States of America did.

Clay Rogers
05-11-2011, 09:15 PM
Just because the Germans preformed medical experiments on innocent people we should do the same????????????????? Just because the Japaneese preformed henious crimes on our military personnel we should do the same???????????????

Just because these terrorists kill the the people they capture does that mean we have to get down in the mud with them and stoop to their level??????????????


First of all, waterboarding does not equal up to flying planes into tall buildings and killing innocent civilians. Waterboarding is a tool to interrogate someone for information, plain and simple. And yes, sometimes you have to get "dirty" to win a war. It ain't pretty, but its war man!

And Roger, any time you would like some first hand experience with waterboarding, just let me know. I will be glad to help you out.:cool:

Clay Rogers
05-11-2011, 09:16 PM
Just because the Germans preformed medical experiments on innocent people we should do the same????????????????? Just because the Japaneese preformed henious crimes on our military personnel we should do the same???????????????

Just because these terrorists kill the the people they capture does that mean we have to get down in the mud with them and stoop to their level??????????????

I don't believe any of Countries where the terriorists hail from signed the treaty of the Geneva Convention that made torture illegal. However, the Untied States of America did.

And I was talking about what they do to you in SERE school.

Roger Perry
05-11-2011, 09:29 PM
Here's an idea, why don't we waterboard Bush and Cheney and see if the real reason we invaded iraq was WMD?????????????????????? or if it was because "Saddam thar MF tried to kill my father";-)

caryalsobrook
05-11-2011, 09:39 PM
Here's an idea, why don't we waterboard Bush and Cheney and see if the real reason we invaded iraq was WMD?????????????????????? or if it was because "Saddam thar MF tried to kill my father";-)

The same reason we would not waterboard you to find out how you come up with such rediculous statements. come to think of it, it might be worth it just to figure out how anyone could think so stupidly---about anything.

Losthwy
05-11-2011, 11:22 PM
OK, serious question. For those that believe water boarding is torture, what is your reasoning?

Seems to me I went through worse in the 70's just to get a red cross advanced survival swimming pass as a youngster. We did everything in lake not a pool.
Waterboarding is a form of torture (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Torture) in which water is poured over the face of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Drowning).


Did the Red Cross immobilize you?
Did Red Cross training deliberately simulate you drowning?
Would you object your wife, sister, or mother to being waterboarded?
Would you, getting paid as a youngster, gone to the Red Cross for 183 morning to get waterboarded?

teddyg
05-11-2011, 11:24 PM
Here's an idea, why don't we waterboard Bush and Cheney and see if the real reason we invaded iraq was WMD?????????????????????? or if it was because "Saddam thar MF tried to kill my father";-)

Roger, Saddam tried to kill your dad?

Losthwy
05-11-2011, 11:34 PM
Roger, Saddam tried to kill your dad?
Roger is alluding to Saddam wish to kill Bush 1.

Rtyler4616
05-12-2011, 12:42 AM
It seems like Roger just regurgitates other liberals statements that have zero validity. It's odd that your giving Obama the credit for finding Osama? Would you have given Bush the credit if it was him? I seriously doubt it. I doubt the either President was highly involved in the daily tasks that were put together over the past decade that led to finding Bin Ladin. It's also ridiculous to believe all information was gathered only since Obama has been in the white house.

In regards to the torture comments, it seems a lot of people are forgetting that we are in a war, not trying to acquire pen pals. Our greatest leaders throughout history did what was necessary to win, not necessarily what was politically correct.

Roger Perry
05-12-2011, 08:16 AM
It seems like Roger just regurgitates other liberals statements that have zero validity. It's odd that your giving Obama the credit for finding Osama? Would you have given Bush the credit if it was him? I seriously doubt it. I doubt the either President was highly involved in the daily tasks that were put together over the past decade that led to finding Bin Ladin. It's also ridiculous to believe all information was gathered only since Obama has been in the white house.

In regards to the torture comments, it seems a lot of people are forgetting that we are in a war, not trying to acquire pen pals. Our greatest leaders throughout history did what was necessary to win, not necessarily what was politically correct.

Yupper, Bush and Cheney will go down in history with the best of them, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Hirohito ect. ;-)

Clay Rogers
05-12-2011, 08:32 AM
[/SIZE][/B]

Yupper, Bush and Cheney will go down in history with the best of them, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Hirohito ect. ;-)


And you probably sit back and wonder why people call you names and don't take you serious? Its comments like this. You truly are simple dude. To compare Bush and Cheney to any of these people just shows your lack of intelligence and upbringing and most importantly character.

Roger Perry
05-12-2011, 08:38 AM
And you probably sit back and wonder why people call you names and don't take you serious? Its comments like this. You truly are simple dude. To compare Bush and Cheney to any of these people just shows your lack of intelligence and upbringing and most importantly character.

"Our greatest leaders throughout history did what was necessary to win, not necessarily what was politically correct."

I was just replying to a statement made by another poster.;-)

road kill
05-12-2011, 08:44 AM
[/SIZE][/B]

Yupper, Bush and Cheney will go down in history with the best of them, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Hirohito ect. ;-)

Man crush!!!!:D


RK

Cody Covey
05-12-2011, 12:08 PM
"Our greatest leaders throughout history did what was necessary to win, not necessarily what was politically correct."

I was just replying to a statement made by another poster.;-)

Since when were any of those mentioned OUR leaders? Do you think we should've not used nukes over Japan also? Do you think we should not be using tanks, guns, and airplanes to kill people? What do you think is acceptable to do in a war situation? I would imagine that list is much shorter than what you think is unacceptable judging by your comments so far.

road kill
05-12-2011, 03:27 PM
Your use of rhetoric, and discard for critical thinking is unremarkable.

I am sure from your perch up high I am soooo pedestrian.:D


RK

luvmylabs23139
05-12-2011, 04:22 PM
Waterboarding is a form of torture (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Torture) in which water is poured over the face of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning (http://www.retrievertraining.net/wiki/Drowning).


Did the Red Cross immobilize you?
Did Red Cross training deliberately simulate you drowning?
Would you object your wife, sister, omother to being waterboarded?
Would you, getting paid as a youngster, gone to the Red Cross for 183 morning to get waterboarded?

NO matter how many ways you try to twist things I still do not consider waterboarding torture.
I'm sure more than half of what we went thru in that class no longer happens because you left wing nuts probably had it banned years ago.
BY the way we were put in situations where one may think they were going to drown. The whole purpose was to learn to not panic and survive.
Of course the left wing wah wah wah would rather have people drown than work on not drowning in harsh situtations.
Since I don't have any terrorists in my family I certainly don't have to worry about them being waterboarded.

Roger Perry
05-12-2011, 05:30 PM
NO matter how many ways you try to twist things I still do not consider waterboarding torture.
I'm sure more than half of what we went thru in that class no longer happens because you left wing nuts probably had it banned years ago.
BY the way we were put in situations where one may think they were going to drown. The whole purpose was to learn to not panic and survive.
Of course the left wing wah wah wah would rather have people drown than work on not drowning in harsh situtations.
Since I don't have any terrorists in my family I certainly don't have to worry about them being waterboarded.

Why don't we call it what it was called before waterboarding--------------Chineese water torture.;-)

gman0046
05-12-2011, 07:16 PM
Roger Perry - Man Crush Obongolo!

luvmylabs23139
05-12-2011, 07:35 PM
Why don't we call it what it was called before waterboarding--------------Chineese water torture.;-)


Because Chinese water torture and waterboarding are not the same thing.

Chinese water torture (which is not torture) involves dropping one drop of water on a person's forehead about 5 seconds apart for hours. Might result in extreme bordem from counting the seconds until the next drop though.:rolleyes:

M&K's Retrievers
05-12-2011, 07:57 PM
Because Chinese water torture and waterboarding are not the same thing.

Chinese water torture (which is not torture) involves dropping one drop of water on a person's forehead about 5 seconds apart for hours. Might result in extreme bordem from couting the seconds until the next drop though.:rolleyes:

There you go again trying to confuse rp with factual information.

Wasting you time regards,

mjh345
05-12-2011, 09:13 PM
NO matter how many ways you try to twist things I still do not consider waterboarding torture.
.


Luvvy your thread has gone on for days and days and pages and pages. Do you at all realize that we have for years been signatories to a treaty that defines waterboarding as torture?

Your opinion doesn't matter

Nate_C
05-12-2011, 09:23 PM
Excellent reply.

How was that any kind of reply to my question. It was a total avoidance of my question. Are you saying that since they do all these bad things that Jesus would be OK with waterboarding?

Rtyler4616
05-12-2011, 09:33 PM
You replied to my post, but you weren't quoting my post when you made perhaps the most ridiculous comment you've made on this entire thread when you compared Bush to the Axis power leaders of WWII. First of all, I didn't state that I believed Bush to be included in our list of greatest leaders throughout history, but to even dare to compare him to Hitler just proves how moronic the way you perceive life is.

luvmylabs23139
05-12-2011, 09:42 PM
Luvvy your thread has gone on for days and days and pages and pages. Do you at all realize that we have for years been signatories to a treaty that defines waterboarding as torture?

Your opinion doesn't matter

You let wing nuts should go read the actual document.

First of all the Geniva convention does not specify waterboarding as torture.
Go read the actual document.
SEcond "unlawful combatants" are not protected nor interestingly are those from any country that did not sign it.

Clay Rogers
05-12-2011, 10:08 PM
Luvvy your thread has gone on for days and days and pages and pages. Do you at all realize that we have for years been signatories to a treaty that defines waterboarding as torture?

Your opinion doesn't matter


Where the he!! do you get off telling some one their opinion doesn't matter? I know that is how you left leaning hypocrites would like it to be, but it's not so.

Losthwy
05-12-2011, 11:12 PM
c. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to place a prisoner under physical or mental duress, torture or any other form of coercion in an effort to secure information.

This argument water boarding is not torture is BULL*^%. It is phony and void of honesty. At least have the stones to call it what it is.

Buzz
05-12-2011, 11:47 PM
This is an awesome speech on the topic that McCain just gave on the senate floor. I think he's a true American Patriot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3I94Yb4KUic

Hew
05-13-2011, 12:13 AM
Waynes World Flashback to November of 2008....diddydiddo, diddydiddaddoo, diddddydiddddddddddy..............

"Hmmmmmmm.....who to vote for President? Who. To. Vote. For? I mean, on the one hand we have a true American Patriot. And on the other hand we have a race baiter who I swore I would never vote for. Race baiter? American Patriot? Peeeeeeeshaaaaaaaaw....the choice is easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Race baiter, of course!"

Buzz
05-13-2011, 12:17 AM
Waynes World Flashback to November of 2008....diddydiddo, diddydiddaddoo, diddddydiddddddddddy..............

"Hmmmmmmm.....who to vote for President? Who. To. Vote. For? I mean, on the one hand we have a true American Patriot. And on the other hand we have a race baiter who I swore I would never vote for. Race baiter? American Patriot? Peeeeeeeshaaaaaaaaw....the choice is easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Race baiter, of course!"

Nice deflection.

Hew
05-13-2011, 07:25 AM
Nice deflection.
Nah, no deflection...just a comment on the galling nature of your praise for McCain when you think it furthers your point of view. You call McCain an "American Patriot" when he's backing your argument and "extremely offensive" when you don't agree with him. Fickle much?

huntinman
05-13-2011, 08:41 AM
This is an awesome speech on the topic that McCain just gave on the senate floor. I think he's a true American Patriot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3I94Yb4KUic

Libs have always loved McCain... except on election day. That's why the lib media pushed so hard for him during the republican primaries last time. Next time, we will choose our own candidate thank you. No more rinos...

In honor of Bon...Go Conservative or go home.

luvmylabs23139
05-13-2011, 09:14 AM
c. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention to place a prisoner under physical or mental duress, torture or any other form of coercion in an effort to secure information.



This argument water boarding is not torture is BULL*^%. It is phony and void of honesty. At least have the stones to call it what it is.

IT is not torture.
Funny, you left wing crazies always state that the Geneva convention states waterboarding is torture but it does not.
It does not define any specific act as torture!
Therefor it is all subjective!

Losthwy
05-13-2011, 09:34 AM
This is an awesome speech on the topic that McCain just gave on the senate floor. I think he's a true American Patriot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3I94Yb4KUic

I believe he is also. Though he has shamelessly been attacked by those on the far left and far right. He remains a senator who, like Senator Lindsey Graham, retain a conscience. Repeatedly he has shown the moral fiber to break ranks, with those that are only politically motivated by their own self interest, to do what he thought was right.

huntinman
05-13-2011, 09:44 AM
I believe he is also. Though he has shamelessly been attacked by those on the far left and far right. He remains a senator who, like Senator Lindsey Graham, retain a conscience. Repeatedly he has shown the moral fiber to break ranks, with those that are only politically motivated by their own self interest, to do what he thought was right.

another Rino loved by the libs:rolleyes:

Hew
05-13-2011, 10:14 AM
I believe he is also. Though he has shamelessly been attacked by those on the far left and far right. He remains a senator who, like Senator Lindsey Graham, retain a conscience. Repeatedly he has shown the moral fiber to break ranks, with those that are only politically motivated by their own self interest, to do what he thought was right.
I gather you're a big Joe Lieberman fan, then? Or does your admiration for mavricky politicians not apply when it's a Democrat who is jumping ship?

Losthwy
05-13-2011, 05:26 PM
I stand by McCain as someone with integrity. Seems the lack of integrity is not a issue with some. As Sen. Hatch defending the corporate welfare of oil companies though supposedly against big government, big deficits and for the American people. Not that the oil companies giving large sums to the GOP would buy their support. Of course not, that would be the usual rotten to the core Washington politics. After all, giving billions to big oil is what any patriotic Republican worthy of the flag pin on their lapel should endorse. They're looking out for your best interest in doing so.
John McCain served honorably and he showed up for work which is more than we can say about ______________.

Hammered by Democrats who want to eliminate some of their tax breaks, oil companies have poured considerable sums into Republican campaign coffers and lobbying efforts on Capitol Hill.
Executives for ConocoPhillips, Exxon Mobil Corp., BP America Inc., Chevron Corp. and Shell Oil Co. appeared Thursday before the Senate Finance Committee. Many of the panel’s members, particularly Republicans, have received oil company dollars in the last few election cycles.
Senate Finance members have received $195,000 from ConocoPhillips, Exxon Mobil, BP, Chevron and Shell since 2007, according to a CQ MoneyLine analysis of Federal Election Commission filings.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) topped the list in contributions with $32,500, followed by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) with $25,000, Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) with $25,000, Sen. Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.) with $24,500 and Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) with $24,000.
Three other Republicans on the committee received contributions: Sen. John Thune (S.D.) received $23,000, Mike Crapo (Idaho) received $23,000 and Finance ranking member Orrin Hatch (Utah) received $2,500.
Four panel Democrats also collected big oil cash. Chairman Max Baucus (Mont.) took in $10,500, Sen. Bob Menendez (N.J.) received $2,000, Sen. Jeff Bingaman (N.M.) received $2,000 and Sen. Kent Conrad (N.D.) received $1,000.
Republicans have, by far, been the primary Congressional beneficiaries of Big Oil’s largesse. The five biggest oil companies gave 97 percent of their contributions to Republicans in the first quarter of this year. In the 2010 election cycle, 83 percent of their contributions went to the GOP.
Exxon Mobil’s political action committee, which was the largest contributor of the top five oil companies this year, donated $235,560 to campaigns, and all but $7,000 went to GOP campaigns.
The oil giant’s PAC gave the $10,000 maximum to Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and $5,000 each to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), House Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton (R-Mich.), and House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.).
BP’s filings show it made no contributions after a major explosion on its oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico in April 2010 led to a months-long oil leak.
But the company resumed its contributions in the first quarter of this year, distributing $19,000, all but $3,000 of which went to Republicans. BP gave $5,000 each to Boehner, McCarthy and Upton, as well as $1,000 to Camp.
The big five oil companies also spent almost $17.9 million on lobbying in the first quarter of this year, compared with just over $17 million in the same period in 2010. ConocoPhillips spent the most with $6.2 million, followed by Shell with $3.9 million, Exxon Mobil with $3 million, Chevron with $2.8 million and BP with $2 million.
The American Petroleum Institute, which represents the big oil companies in Washington, spent $2 million in lobbying in the first quarter of this year, compared with $1.2 million for the same period in 2010.

Hew
05-13-2011, 05:34 PM
I stand by McCain as someone with integrity. Seems the lack of integrity is not a issue with some. As Sen. Hatch defending the corporate welfare of oil companies though supposedly against big government, big deficits and for the American people. Not that the oil companies giving large sums to the GOP would buy their support. Of course not, that would be the usual rotten to the core Washington politics. After all, giving billions to big oil is what any patriotic Republican worthy of the flag pin on their lapel should endorse. They're looking out for your best interest in doing so.
John McCain served honorably and he showed up for work which is more than we can say about ______________.

Hammered by Democrats who want to eliminate some of their tax breaks, oil companies have poured considerable sums into Republican campaign coffers and lobbying efforts on Capitol Hill.
Executives for ConocoPhillips, Exxon Mobil Corp., BP America Inc., Chevron Corp. and Shell Oil Co. appeared Thursday before the Senate Finance Committee. Many of the panel’s members, particularly Republicans, have received oil company dollars in the last few election cycles.
Senate Finance members have received $195,000 from ConocoPhillips, Exxon Mobil, BP, Chevron and Shell since 2007, according to a CQ MoneyLine analysis of Federal Election Commission filings.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) topped the list in contributions with $32,500, followed by Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) with $25,000, Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) with $25,000, Sen. Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.) with $24,500 and Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) with $24,000.
Three other Republicans on the committee received contributions: Sen. John Thune (S.D.) received $23,000, Mike Crapo (Idaho) received $23,000 and Finance ranking member Orrin Hatch (Utah) received $2,500.
Four panel Democrats also collected big oil cash. Chairman Max Baucus (Mont.) took in $10,500, Sen. Bob Menendez (N.J.) received $2,000, Sen. Jeff Bingaman (N.M.) received $2,000 and Sen. Kent Conrad (N.D.) received $1,000.
Republicans have, by far, been the primary Congressional beneficiaries of Big Oil’s largesse. The five biggest oil companies gave 97 percent of their contributions to Republicans in the first quarter of this year. In the 2010 election cycle, 83 percent of their contributions went to the GOP.
Exxon Mobil’s political action committee, which was the largest contributor of the top five oil companies this year, donated $235,560 to campaigns, and all but $7,000 went to GOP campaigns.
The oil giant’s PAC gave the $10,000 maximum to Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and $5,000 each to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), House Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton (R-Mich.), and House Ways and Means Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.).
BP’s filings show it made no contributions after a major explosion on its oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico in April 2010 led to a months-long oil leak.
But the company resumed its contributions in the first quarter of this year, distributing $19,000, all but $3,000 of which went to Republicans. BP gave $5,000 each to Boehner, McCarthy and Upton, as well as $1,000 to Camp.
The big five oil companies also spent almost $17.9 million on lobbying in the first quarter of this year, compared with just over $17 million in the same period in 2010. ConocoPhillips spent the most with $6.2 million, followed by Shell with $3.9 million, Exxon Mobil with $3 million, Chevron with $2.8 million and BP with $2 million.
The American Petroleum Institute, which represents the big oil companies in Washington, spent $2 million in lobbying in the first quarter of this year, compared with $1.2 million for the same period in 2010.
Whew...a whole lotta work to not address the question. You could have just posted the picture of the bunny with the pancake on its head. I'll try again... Do you admire Joe Lieberman and his mavricky ways or just Republicans who stray off the reservation from time-to-time to side with you?

Losthwy
05-13-2011, 06:58 PM
Whew...a whole lotta work to not address the question. You could have just posted the picture of the bunny with the pancake on its head. I'll try again... Do you admire Joe Lieberman and his mavricky ways or just Republicans who stray off the reservation from time-to-time to side with you?

Opaque.

Succinct regards