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Franco
07-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Just an example below of how both political parties are broken. Fox Buisness News (not to be confused with Fox News Channel) did a story earlier that Independents and Libertarians are the fastest growing groups that the American voter can identify with. Mainly because both parties are responsible of the current mess and that people now more than ever are voting for whom they think are the best candidates as opposed to voting along party lines.
.................................

Republicans are doing the squawking now because there is a Democrat in the White House. But back when there was a Republican president, Democrats did the squawking. On March 16, 2006, one Democratic senator denounced George W. Bush’s request to raise the debt limit. “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,” the senator thundered. “Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. . . . Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.”

That senator was Barack Obama, and he, along with most Democrats, voted against a higher limit that day. It passed only because almost every Republican voted for it, including many who are now among the strongest opponents of a debt-limit increase.

huntinman
07-08-2011, 10:32 AM
Just an example below of how both political parties are broken. Fox Buisness News (not to be confused with Fox News Channel) did a story earlier that Independents and Libertarians are the fastest growing groups that the American voter can identify with. Mainly because both parties are responsible of the current mess and that people now more than ever are voting for whom they think are the best candidates as opposed to voting along party lines.
.................................

Republicans are doing the squawking now because there is a Democrat in the White House. But back when there was a Republican president, Democrats did the squawking. On March 16, 2006, one Democratic senator denounced George W. Bush’s request to raise the debt limit. “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,” the senator thundered. “Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. . . . Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.”

That senator was Barack Obama, and he, along with most Democrats, voted against a higher limit that day. It passed only because almost every Republican voted for it, including many who are now among the strongest opponents of a debt-limit increase.

Ahem... it's owned by one and the same... becoming a convert eh, Franco??

Franco
07-08-2011, 10:56 AM
Ahem... it's owned by one and the same... becoming a convert eh, Franco??



Same owner, different agendas. Fox News is the voice for the Republican Party whereas Fox Buisness' host are mostly Libertarians.

Libertarians and Independents are free to call out any politician regardless of party.

I've moved to the Libertarian camp when it became clear to me that the GOP stood for big Federal government and massive out-of-control spending.

And, I blame both parties for the massive deficit, massive earmarks/pork projects and catering to the lobbyist.

P S
Anyone watch Stossel last night on Fox Business? He did an excellent piece on how the American tax payers have become "serfs" to the Federal Government Class. He also did a great interview with Ron Paul.

huntinman
07-08-2011, 11:08 AM
Same owner, different agendas. Fox News is the voice for the Republican Party whereas Fox Buisness' host are mostly Libertarians.

Libertarians and Independents are free to call out any politician regardless of party.

I've moved to the Libertarian camp when it became clear to me that the GOP stood for big Federal government and massive out-of-control spending.

And, I blame both parties for the massive deficit, massive earmarks/pork projects and catering to the lobbyist.

P S
Anyone watch Stossel last night on Fox Business? He did an excellent piece on how the American tax payers have become "serfs" to the Federal Government Class. He also did a great interview with Ron Paul.

Ron Paul could burp the National Anthem and you would think it was great.

Franco
07-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Ron Paul could burp the National Anthem and you would think it was great.



Yes, I would!

Just look at all the Presidential wannbes that are saying what Ron Paul has been saying for decades. Yet, none of them have the experience, education or background that Ron Paul has. He is capable of taking the conversation beyond bumper sticker slogans which many of the GOP hopefuls are using.

road kill
07-08-2011, 11:15 AM
Same owner, different agendas. Fox News is the voice for the Republican Party whereas Fox Buisness' host are mostly Libertarians.

Libertarians and Independents are free to call out any politician regardless of party.

I've moved to the Libertarian camp when it became clear to me that the GOP stood for big Federal government and massive out-of-control spending.

And, I blame both parties for the massive deficit, massive earmarks/pork projects and catering to the lobbyist.

P S
Anyone watch Stossel last night on Fox Business? He did an excellent piece on how the American tax payers have become "serfs" to the Federal Government Class. He also did a great interview with Ron Paul.

I'm shocked, I had no idea.....when did this happen???:shock:



RK

huntinman
07-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Yes, I would!

Just look at all the Presidential wannbes that are saying what Ron Paul has been saying for decades. Yet, none of them have the experience, education or background that Ron Paul has. He is capable of taking the conversation beyond bumper sticker slogans which many of the GOP hopefuls are using.

I think I need a tums...:confused:

Franco
07-08-2011, 11:21 AM
I think I need a tums...:confused:

Faced with the field of GOP Presidential candidates, you are going to need more than Tums.

Ron Paul may be tough to elect but, his message will be with us for a long time to come!

Franco
07-08-2011, 11:32 AM
I'm shocked, I had no idea.....when did this happen???:shock:



RK

When I realized that Dr. Ron Paul has the only realistic plan for cutting the deficit and getting the massive spending under control. Afterall, he is the only candidate that has articualted a plan beyond simple slogans.

Though he led the Libertarian charge for years, the system doesn't allow for more than a two party system. So, he is trying to work within the GOP.

He is the Winston Chruchill of our times.
Chruchill was discounted by the political establishment until it became clear that he was the most quailifed to lead.


Discount him all you want but he is the only non-politicain citizen-legislature in the bunch, both parties.

subroc
07-08-2011, 12:18 PM
I expect the fastest growing political affiliation is those that claim to be independent but really lean conservative.

Franco
07-08-2011, 01:28 PM
I expect the fastest growing political affiliation is those that claim to be independent but really lean conservative.



True, that's is what they were saying on Fox Business News. Those folks feel betrayed by the GOP especially when you see how hard they are fighting to keep thier earmarks/pork in place during the debt ceiling fight.

Another point they made is, what does Conservative mean today? When the Conservative movement began, it meant smaller Fed Government, Free Market Economy, more personal freedom and being fiscally responsible. Qualities that have left the GOP. Yet, now we have those points as a ralling cry of the GOP but, are they serious? Can we trust them? All the Presidential wannabes(except Ron Paul) were big spending, more Fed government intrusion and now they say they are different.

I think they just jumped on to the bandwagon ralling for a smaller Fed Government because it has become so popular to say so(except Ron Paul who has always believed in a smaller Fed Government and mandatory balanced budget).

Of the GOP wannabes, only Dr Ron Paul was against intervention in Iraq and A'stan. Two wars that have cost us over 4,000 dead and 3 TRILLION borrowed dollars and has upset the balance of power in the mideast. One reason Iran is so out of control today is because we have neutered Iraq.

cotts135
07-08-2011, 01:30 PM
I expect the fastest growing political affiliation is those that claim to be independent but really lean conservative.
Tough to reconcile that with the fact that the fastest growing population in the US is the Hispanics.

Franco
07-08-2011, 01:48 PM
Tough to reconcile that with the fact that the fastest growing population in the US is the Hispanics.



Other than they are for open boarders, they are a pretty conservative group. Most of the older ones are devout in thier religion and live conservative lives. Not to say there aren't some bad apples, La Raza and the street gangs etc.

But, lets face it, both parties have been pandering to them for a long time. Pres Reagan declared Amnesty and both Bushes did nothing to stem the tide of illegal migration.

Once our politicans have the courage to write and implement tougher boarder security, the Dems will get most of the legal immigrants' votes because they see the Dems as a free ticket to USA citizenship.

P S
I am in the process of building a new house. The Framing contactor had a crew of what I beleive to be illegals working for him. Ten of them worhed 12.5 hours a day for 10 days straight to get the house framing done. I asked my General Contactor about it and he said their isn't an Anglo or African American framing crew between Florida and California in the south. And, if he could find one it would take a much longer time to get the job done and probably wouldn't be done as well as the Mexicans. I saw another Mexican crew build a Walgreens in 6 weeks!

Cody Covey
07-08-2011, 01:59 PM
not when you consider that most hispanics are conservative...

huntinman
07-08-2011, 02:19 PM
Other than they are for open boarders, they are a pretty conservative group. Most of the older ones are devout in thier religion and live conservative lives. Not to say there aren't some bad apples, La Raza and the street gangs etc.

But, lets face it, both parties have been pandering to them for a long time. Pres Reagan declared Amnesty and both Bushes did nothing to stem the tide of illegal migration.

Once our politicans have the courage to write and implement tougher boarder security, the Dems will get most of the legal immigrants' votes because they see the Dems as a free ticket to USA citizenship.

P S
I am in the process of building a new house. The Framing contactor had a crew of what I beleive to be illegals working for him. Ten of them worhed 12.5 hours a day for 10 days straight to get the house framing done. I asked my General Contactor about it and he said their isn't an Anglo or African American framing crew between Florida and California in the south. And, if he could find one it would take a much longer time to get the job done and probably wouldn't be done as well as the Mexicans. I saw another Mexican crew build a Walgreens in 6 weeks!

Open boarders would be surfers willing to listen to other points of view. Open borders allow anyone that wants to cross into our country whenever they want. just trying to help.

By the way, how much did you pay that contractor to frame your house Franco?

BonMallari
07-08-2011, 02:55 PM
not when you consider that most hispanics are conservative...


Huh...not the ones on the west coast, all the one I work with are so brainwashed by the union mentality, they will protest at the drop of a hat and join a picket line without knowing what they picketing about, they actually believe the union will guarantee their jobs and take care of them

....but they scatter like roaches when the light comes on if someone yells
I N S :p:p

Cody Covey
07-08-2011, 03:01 PM
Huh...not the ones on the west coast, all the one I work with are so brainwashed by the union mentality, they will protest at the drop of a hat and join a picket line without knowing what they picketing about, they actually believe the union will guarantee their jobs and take care of them

....but they scatter like roaches when the light comes on if someone yells
I N S :p:p

Living in the northwest and working in the apple industry I know what you mean! BUT, a poll that was taken last year showed that 58% of hispanics lean conservative.

Matt McKenzie
07-08-2011, 04:15 PM
I think we oversimplify when we try to attribute anything to "hispanics". That encompasses a huge group of people from many different backgrounds.

BonMallari
07-08-2011, 04:23 PM
I think we oversimplify when we try to attribute anything to "hispanics". That encompasses a huge group of people from many different backgrounds.


Good point Matt...in Fla have the Cuban, Puerto Rican influence...in TX/La. the hispanic population are actually 2nd and 3rd generation natives, and then out west you have the 2nd and 3rd generation whose folks were of questionable immigration status but had kids who became automatic citizens

Hew
07-08-2011, 04:48 PM
I am in the process of building a new house. The Framing contactor had a crew of what I beleive to be illegals working for him. Ten of them worhed 12.5 hours a day for 10 days straight to get the house framing done. I asked my General Contactor about it and he said their isn't an Anglo or African American framing crew between Florida and California in the south. And, if he could find one it would take a much longer time to get the job done and probably wouldn't be done as well as the Mexicans. I saw another Mexican crew build a Walgreens in 6 weeks!
Your contractor if full of sh!t. What he REALLY is telling you is that he can't find a crew of LEGAL workers who will do the work for a price you the customer are willing to pay. And what you REALLY said to him when you accepted his bullsh!t excuse was, "damn right...give me the cheapest labor you can and I don't give a sh!t if they're legal or not." You're going to be jumping for joy when you see your GC's roofers and drywallers. ;-)

You should probably never again complain about illegal immigration or repeat that Savage nonsense about "borders, culture, language."

Franco
07-08-2011, 05:16 PM
Your contractor if full of sh!t. What he REALLY is telling you is that he can't find a crew of LEGAL workers who will do the work for a price you the customer are willing to pay. And what you REALLY said to him when you accepted his bullsh!t excuse was, "damn right...give me the cheapest labor you can and I don't give a sh!t if they're legal or not." You're going to be jumping for joy when you see your GC's roofers and drywallers. ;-)

You should probably never again complain about illegal immigration or repeat that Savage nonsense about "borders, culture, language."

Wrong again!

The estimate for Framing was in the Contractor's estimate. At $15 per square foot, it is high but the builder is in demand and gets his price. I could have gotten a builder to do it for $12 per foot but I went with the builder that is in demand.

I have yet to see a non-hispanic crew do any building in Louisiana other then the plumbers, AC and electricians.

Unlike most of Florida, home values in this town were up nearly 3% last year.

Hew
07-08-2011, 05:29 PM
Wrong again!

The estimate for Framing was in the Contractor's estimate. At $15 per square foot, it is high but the builder is in demand and gets his price. I could have gotten a builder to do it for $12 per foot but I went with the builder that is in demand.

I have yet to see a non-hispanic crew do any building in Louisiana other then the plumbers, AC and electricians.

Unlike most of Florida, home values in this town were up nearly 3% last year.
Oh, I see. Alrighty, then. He's such a good builder that he just has to hire illegal immigrants and charge more for his work. Makes sense to me. And it must make sense to you to the extent that you can rationalize years of ranting about illegal immigrants on this forum and then turn around and hire illegal immigrants to work on your own house. Illegal immigration is bad when others benefit, but OK when you benefit. Sleeep tight.

Franco
07-08-2011, 05:48 PM
Oh, I see. Alrighty, then. He's such a good builder that he just has to hire illegal immigrants and charge more for his work. Makes sense to me. And it must make sense to you to the extent that you can rationalize years of ranting about illegal immigrants on this forum and then turn around and hire illegal immigrants to work on your own house. Illegal immigration is bad when others benefit, but OK when you benefit. Sleeep tight.

Wrong yet again!

There are no other framing crews in this part of the world. It is a lot of work to frame and the locals take on easier jobs. If you want a new house one is going to get some Hispanic labor, there is no way around it!

I've stated in this thread as well as others that I am against illegal migration.

I am all for securing the borders but, our government is not. So until they are secured, Hispanic labor is in abundance. I didn't know who was going to show up for the framing job, they were hired by my General Contractor. The head Mexican drives a late model King Ranch. His helpers showed up in three new Ceby pickups. I don't think any of them are hurting for cash. The drank Modelo at the end of the day and not cheap domestic beer. I know because I brought them a case of iced down Coors Light at the end of one day and they thanked me and broke out thier Modelo.

P S

They also work very neat. Didn't have a lot of building debris left around the house when they were done. I was impressed!

BonMallari
07-08-2011, 06:09 PM
Wrong yet again!

There are no other framing crews in this part of the world. It is a lot of work to frame and the locals take on easier jobs. If you want a new house one is going to get some Hispanic labor, there is no way around it!

I've stated in this thread as well as others that I am against illegal migration.

I am all for securing the borders but, our government is not. So until they are secured, Hispanic labor is in abundance. I didn't know who was going to show up for the framing job, they were hired by my General Contractor. The head Mexican drives a late model King Ranch. His helpers showed up in three new Ceby pickups. I don't think any of them are hurting for cash. The drank Modelo at the end of the day and not cheap domestic beer. I know because I brought them a case of iced down Coors Light at the end of one day and they thanked me and broke out thier Modelo.

P S

They also work very neat. Didn't have a lot of building debris left around the house when they were done. I was impressed!


you knew what they drank and you still brought the that watered down mountain swill...you could have at least tried Shiner Bock:rolleyes:

huntinman
07-08-2011, 06:19 PM
All I know Franco is that either your math is fuzzy or someone is getting screwed. The contractor is working for free if all his illegals are driving new trucks and drinking fancy beer. If not, they are cutting some serious corners and your house is going to fall in on you one night when the wind starts blowing. You brag about that many guys working that hard for that long and they are all riding in style? How many construction crews you see that look like that? Sounds like bullsh#$ to me and I have been around contractors and the RE industry and since 1985.

Gerry Clinchy
07-08-2011, 06:44 PM
How does anyone know they are illegals?

Franco
07-08-2011, 07:33 PM
All I know Franco is that either your math is fuzzy or someone is getting screwed. The contractor is working for free if all his illegals are driving new trucks and drinking fancy beer. If not, they are cutting some serious corners and your house is going to fall in on you one night when the wind starts blowing. You brag about that many guys working that hard for that long and they are all riding in style? How many construction crews you see that look like that? Sounds like bullsh#$ to me and I have been around contractors and the RE industry and since 1985.

Bill, I think you extreme right brain has gotten fuzzy!

The General Contrator works off a percentage of the cost. I look the bids over and select a sub from the subs that work for him. When they are done, I pay the subs. The GC gets his percentage in four payments. Each step gets inspected by me. No mortgage company is involved so I can do it this way! This is not a depressed area. Sales taxes are up just about every year including 09 and 10. Until the drilling moritorium we had full employment, which is now just coming back to full. Workers flock to this part of the country because we haven't joined any recession.

So, I know this is hard for you to understand but, no one including the Hispanic labor is being taken advantage of. Too many lucrative construction jobs for them, so they do get paid well.

Sorry to burst your bubble but life is good around here.

Franco
07-08-2011, 07:34 PM
How does anyone know they are illegals?



I can only speculate that they are because they don't speak much American.

road kill
07-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Rationalization--the 2nd strongest human drive!!!


RK

huntinman
07-08-2011, 09:34 PM
Bill, I think you extreme right brain has gotten fuzzy!

The General Contrator works off a percentage of the cost. I look the bids over and select a sub from the subs that work for him. When they are done, I pay the subs. The GC gets his percentage in four payments. Each step gets inspected by me. No mortgage company is involved so I can do it this way! This is not a depressed area. Sales taxes are up just about every year including 09 and 10. Until the drilling moritorium we had full employment, which is now just coming back to full. Workers flock to this part of the country because we haven't joined any recession.

So, I know this is hard for you to understand but, no one including the Hispanic labor is being taken advantage of. Too many lucrative construction jobs for them, so they do get paid well.

Sorry to burst your bubble but life is good around here.

I don't care when the GC get's his piece of the pie. A pie is only so big to start with. You can split it so many ways... it's still the same pie.

M&K's Retrievers
07-08-2011, 11:58 PM
I can only speculate that they are because they don't speak much American.

Maybe they are like the Mexican-American citizen who recently addressed the Texas Senate in Spanish because he felt more comfortable speaking Spanish after living here 18 years. And I think it's English, not American.

Oh, and by the way Franco, after 2 years of reading your insightful posts,the word is their not thier. Drives me nuts. :D

Spill chech reguards,

BonMallari
07-09-2011, 02:33 AM
I can only speculate that they are because they don't speak much American.

got news for ya...neither do most of you Cajuns, cant understand whatever you guys are talking about half the time :p:p

Gerry Clinchy
07-09-2011, 07:38 AM
I can only speculate that they are because they don't speak much American.

We have many Hispanic legals in our area of PA (from Puerto Rico) who speak little or no English.