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caryalsobrook
08-04-2011, 01:28 PM
Market plunges and the only question is how far. Now just wait til interest rates rise. Oh I'm sure the libs(Progressives) will blame Bush or the EA Party or whoever. Remember Buzz when I said you ain't seen nothing yet?? well do you think it might be starting. High unemployment, high inflation, high interest rates,j change we can count on??

where are you Buz, Sambo and all the otherKeynesian progressives. I hope I am wrong but I do wonder if "WE AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET'

Uncle Bill
08-04-2011, 01:45 PM
While the latest fiasco in Washington is suddenly being understood by the 'players' on Wall Street, I think the world situation has a better understanding of the money ...or lack of...situation. Those at 'risk' are deciding they've squeezed as much blood out of that turnip as they can.

It's like continuing to double down on the crap table numbers after the dice thrower has made 7 passes. Might be time to pull back some of those 'stacks' of chips, and pocket the gains that you've racked up to this point. Better to lament what you coulda made as you watch 4 more passes being rolled, then to discover one throw too late how much you just lost, because you became addicted to the "action".

Anyone continuing to 'play' this game, when the odds are becoming beyond believability, can only kick themselves if they find they are in the tank, and couldn't read the obvious soon enough.

UB

Buzz
08-04-2011, 02:27 PM
Market plunges and the only question is how far. Now just wait til interest rates rise. Oh I'm sure the libs(Progressives) will blame Bush or the EA Party or whoever. Remember Buzz when I said you ain't seen nothing yet?? well do you think it might be starting. High unemployment, high inflation, high interest rates,j change we can count on??

where are you Buz, Sambo and all the otherKeynesian progressives. I hope I am wrong but I do wonder if "WE AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET'



Your boys have been making predictions for years now.

Where is hyper inflation?

Where are the surging interest rates?

What a joke.

Buzz
08-04-2011, 02:35 PM
I was just reading David Frum this morning. At least one conservative is coming to his senses.

http://www.frumforum.com/could-it-be-that-our-enemies-were-right



Were Our Enemies Right?

In February 1982, Susan Sontag made a fierce challenge to a left-wing audience gathered at New York’s Town Hall:

Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Reader’s Digest between 1950 and 1970, and someone in the same period who read only The Nation or The New Statesman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of Communism? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?

Posing that question won Sontag only boos from an audience that the New York Times described as “startled.” Yet the question has only gained power over the intervening years. It contributed to the rise of a healthier, more realistic left much less tempted to make excuses for “progressive” dictatorships than the left of the last generation. If Hugo Chavez has any defenders on the contemporary American left, I haven’t heard of them.

Think of Susan Sontag as you absorb the horrifying revised estimates of the collapse of 2008 from the Commerce Department. Two years ago, Commerce estimated the decline of the US economy at -0.5% in the third quarter of 2008 and -3.8% in the fourth quarter. It now puts the damage at -3.7% and -8.9%: Great Depression territory.

Those estimates make intuitive sense as we assess the real-world effect of the crisis: the jobs lost, the homes foreclosed, the retirements shattered. When people tell me that I’ve changed my mind too much about too many things over the past four years, I can only point to the devastation wrought by this crisis and wonder: How closed must your thinking be if it isn’t affected by a disaster of such magnitude? And in fact, almost all of our thinking has been somehow affected: hence the drift of so many conservatives away from what used to be the mainstream market-oriented Washington Consensus toward Austrian economics and Ron Paul style hard-money libertarianism. The ground they and I used to occupy stands increasingly empty.

If I can’t follow where most of my friends have gone, it is because I keep hearing Susan Sontag’s question in my ears. Or rather, a revised and updated version of that question:

Imagine, if you will, someone who read only the Wall Street Journal editorial page between 2000 and 2011, and someone in the same period who read only the collected columns of Paul Krugman. Which reader would have been better informed about the realities of the current economic crisis? The answer, I think, should give us pause. Can it be that our enemies were right?


And this:

http://www.frumforum.com/if-the-conservatives-were-right-about-the-economy


If Conservatives Were Right About the Economy

Further to yesterday’s post about the respective economic acumen of the Wall Street Journal editorial page vs. Prof. Paul Krugman:

My conservative friends argue that the policies of Barack Obama are responsible for the horrifying length and depth of the economic crisis.

Question: Which policies?

Obama’s only tax increases – those contained in the Affordable Care Act – do not go into effect until 2014. Personal income tax rates and corporate tax rates are no higher today than they have been for the past decade. The payroll tax has actually been cut by 2 points. Total federal tax collections have dropped by 4 points of GDP since 2007, from 18+% to 14+%, the lowest rate since the Truman administration.

If so minded, you could describe Barack Obama as the biggest tax cutter in American history.

We have not seen a major surge in federal regulation, at least by the usual rough metrics: the page count of the Federal Register has risen by less than 5% since George W. Bush’s last year in office. Trade remains as free as it was a decade ago.

While the Affordable Care Act itself will eventually have major economic consequences, most of its provisions remain only impending.

Energy prices have surged, but that’s hardly a response to administration policies. Conservatives complain about restrictions on drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, but on a planet that produces 63 million barrels of oil per day, a few thousand more or less from the Gulf will not much budge the price of oil. Rising oil prices are a story about Chinese and Indian consumption and Middle Eastern political instability, not about US drilling or lack thereof.

The Dodd-Frank bill does somewhat curtail the activities of some banks and investment firms. But is it seriously argued that this could be the cause?

Conservatives complain about excess government spending. Fine. But isn’t the evil of excess government spending supposed to be inflation rather than recession? And where’s the inflation?

There’s a strong case for condemning Barack Obama for the things he might have done, but did not do. He might have cut payroll taxes more and faster. He might have pushed for more expansionary Federal Reserve governors. He might have designed a better stimulus. All true. But the things he did do? Texas Gov. Rick Perry today urges us to believe that the economy is gripped by the worst slump since the Great Depression because Obama spoke disrespectfully of the owners of private jets. To which I can only say: Really? That’s the indictment? Really?

Thank God we have the tea partiers to drive us even deeper into the ditch...

road kill
08-04-2011, 02:52 PM
I was just reading David Frum this morning. At least one conservative is coming to his senses.

http://www.frumforum.com/could-it-be-that-our-enemies-were-right




And this:

http://www.frumforum.com/if-the-conservatives-were-right-about-the-economy



Thank God we have the tea partiers to drive us even deeper into the ditch...
So Buzz, is the only way out of this debt crisis to spend more money we don't have??

I mean the debt now exceeds the GDP, so if you took every dollar earned it still would not balance the books!!


Tell how you would make it work??


Standing by.........


RK

caryalsobrook
08-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Your boys have been making predictions for years now.

Where is hyper inflation?

Where are the surging interest rates?

What a joke.
You can't see inflation, not hyperinflation yet but inflation. Take a look at commodities which you said was cyclic in the short term. Gold, silver,copper,cotton,corn,soybeans just to name a few. Energy, food, transportation, have you bought any parts for your car, truck, lawn mower, other small engines. Have you bought any cloths, paid for any healthcare, school tuition,property taxes? Maybe you haven't but many of us have. About 4 months ago when the market was about at it's highest since 2008, I told you that we ain't seen anything yet but you would before jan. 2012. Jan 2012 hasn't gotten here yet and I am not sure you have seen anything yet. THE NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

Typical liberal excuse, blame the Tea Party Congressmen(women). Oh yes they have participated in limiting the growth of the government for the next 10 years to between 7 and 8% while the economy might be growing at about 1% if you can believe the current administration. They seem to give growth figures and constantly revise them downward. What else has the Tea Party supporters done. How about giving facts instead of accusations.

By the way, I don't have to read every liberal editorial and regurgitate them. I can look at the numbers and they don't look good.

Just to give some perspective, if the interest rate goes up 1%, the interest on the CURRENT DEBT will increase a 140 billion give or take a few billion. Seems lunacy to talk in terms of "give a take a few billion" as if it were a few dollars.

Again " WHAT HAS THE TEA PARTY DONE TO CAUSE THIS" Give FACTS.

Regards

Buzz
08-04-2011, 04:02 PM
Just to give some perspective, if the interest rate goes up 1%, the interest on the CURRENT DEBT will increase a 140 billion give or take a few billion. Seems lunacy to talk in terms of "give a take a few billion" as if it were a few dollars.


Regards


Did you happen to notice treasury yields fell to a record low today?

I have a very simple view of a billion. I divide a billion by 300 million people. This tells me that every billion spent corresponds to $3.33 for every man, woman, and child in the USA. So, when they talk in billions, a little quick math gives me perspective.

luvmylabs23139
08-04-2011, 04:09 PM
Buzz,
The person you quote is wrong about Obumma not having any tax increases yet, so I will need their crap no further than that.
Fact: Federal tax on cigs has been increased and that has been a fact for a while.
Fact : 10% tax on going to the tanning salon is already in effect.
Those are 2 off the top of my head, so YES BUMMA HAS INCREASED TAXES!

caryalsobrook
08-04-2011, 04:20 PM
Did you happen to notice treasury yields fell to a record low today?

I have a very simple view of a billion. I divide a billion by 300 million people. This tells me that every billion spent corresponds to $3.33 for every man, woman, and child in the USA. So, when they talk in billions, a little quick math gives me perspective.
you might figure that on those that ACTUALLY pay net taxes. that excludes about 50% of the population or more if you count dependants ant then add the gov workers who only pay taxes out of the tases collected from the private sector.

Yes and what does that matter it is OPM(other peoples' money)

still no answer about what the Tea Party has done to cause this. Maybe it is because THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO CAUSE THIS!!!

Buzz
08-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Buzz,
The person you quote is wrong about Obumma not having any tax increases yet, so I will need their crap no further than that.
Fact: Federal tax on cigs has been increased and that has been a fact for a while.
Fact : 10% tax on going to the tanning salon is already in effect.
Those are 2 off the top of my head, so YES BUMMA HAS INCREASED TAXES!

And look what happened! The smokers and tanners can't afford to spend money and the world economy is on the rocks! :rolleyes:

BonMallari
08-04-2011, 05:06 PM
This is what happens when you have a bunch of lawyers running the country...the markets showed they have no confidence in the Congress and this administration to do squat about the debt

Buzz
08-04-2011, 05:53 PM
This is what happens when you have a bunch of lawyers running the country...the markets showed they have no confidence in the Congress and this administration to do squat about the debt

Now I understand why the interest on a 10 year treasury is surging! :rolleyes:

See link:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5ETNX+Interactive#symbol=%5ETNX;range=m y


With the rate on the 10 year, they are actually in essence "paying" the US Government to borrow their money.

Those darn bond vigilantes.

caryalsobrook
08-04-2011, 08:07 PM
Now I understand why the interest on a 10 year treasury is surging! :rolleyes:

See link:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5ETNX+Interactive#symbol=%5ETNX;range=m y


With the rate on the 10 year, they are actually in essence "paying" the US Government to borrow their money.

Those darn bond vigilantes.
the interest rate July 1,2011 was aprox 2.33% by your charts, the lowest in the last 52 weeks. the last tresury nots sold the best I can tell , sold between 2.45-2.60%, a continuation of the drop from the 52 week low til now. Are the rates artificially low? I think so. Since Bernanke became chairman, the FED has kept them low in the hopes of stimulating the economy. How did they do this? The FED bought 600 billion in treasury notes efectively pulling them off the market. Not only that, they lend money to banks at esentiolly 0% interest and the banks buy them at the market rate at the time. Do you might think that if they didn't buy treasury bills that the FED might threaten to raise the rate?? I would not be surprised. At any rate a time will come that the FED can no longer continue to do this because the FED balance sheet will suffer so much that any creditibility they have will be lost. When does that time come? When no one will any longer buy treasury notes and only the FED will. THEN is the time you will have hyperinflation, something this contry has never seen, not even in 1980 when interest rates hit more than 20%.

I am dumbfounded by your statement that "They pay the Gov. to allow them to loan money to the gov.

You were asked to justify your statement that the Tea Party is the cause of our economic problems(I really think you can't), maybe you will explain this statement of yours about paying the Govt. to loan it money.

Buzz
08-04-2011, 11:25 PM
I am dumbfounded by your statement that "They pay the Gov. to allow them to loan money to the gov.



I will only address this right now because it is 10:15 PM in South Dakota and I need to get out of my office and home to eat supper and go to bed...

When I said:

"With the rate on the 10 year, they are actually in essence "paying" the US Government to borrow their money."

What I meant by this is, if there are expectations for high inflation, and investors believe that this expectation will come to fruition, then they expect to take a loss due to inflation. If they are willingly taking a loss, then in essence they are willing to pay the government for the privilege of holding on to their money for 10 years. The government is in this case borrowing money at a negative rate compared to inflation because what they return to the investor after 10 years is worth less than the investor lent to the government in the first place.

I don't know why anyone would do that unless they:

A. Believed that government bonds where the only safe place for them to stash their money besides their mattress where they'll take a bigger loss to inflation.
B. They don't believe that high inflation rates are coming.

Franco
08-05-2011, 07:18 AM
I have a very simple view of a billion. I divide a billion by 300 million people. This tells me that every billion spent corresponds to $3.33 for every man, woman, and child in the USA. So, when they talk in billions, a little quick math gives me perspective.



He is another perspective;

Using your same numbers, with the bump in the debt ceiling going to over 15 TRILLION, that comes out to $49,950 per person based on 300million people. Since 51% of those people don't pay any taxes, that's a burden of over $100,000.00 per tax payer!

troy schwab
08-05-2011, 08:28 AM
Its official...... Buzz has clearly lost it, and lives in some paradise unknown........

Buzz
08-05-2011, 10:14 AM
Its official...... Buzz has clearly lost it, and lives in some paradise unknown........

And here I thought that I was just having an interesting exchange with Cary. At least he challenges my views and explains why he disagrees with me...

troy schwab
08-05-2011, 10:32 AM
And here I thought that I was just having an interesting exchange with Cary. At least he challenges my views and explains why he disagrees with me...


Well, lets see......

Gas is still 3.70 a gallon......
Check grocery prices lately??????
National Fuel just raised our natural gas rates 10%.....
Unemployment still above 9%...........
Dow tanking............
Electricity rates on rise.......
Unstable financials across the globe......

Yep, everythings great in my neck of the woods.......... I need darker rose colored glasses....... WTF.......

road kill
08-05-2011, 10:41 AM
Well, lets see......

Gas is still 3.70 a gallon......
Check grocery prices lately??????
National Fuel just raised our natural gas rates 10%.....
Unemployment still above 9%...........
Dow tanking............
Electricity rates on rise.......
Unstable financials across the globe......

Yep, everythings great in my neck of the woods.......... I need darker rose colored glasses....... WTF.......

Troy,
Those are just the things the little people talk about, the intellectual elitists converse on a much higher plane, beyond our comprehension.



Just sayin'.......

RK

Buzz
08-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Well, lets see......

Gas is still 3.70 a gallon......
Check grocery prices lately??????
National Fuel just raised our natural gas rates 10%.....
Unemployment still above 9%...........
Dow tanking............
Electricity rates on rise.......
Unstable financials across the globe......

Yep, everythings great in my neck of the woods.......... I need darker rose colored glasses....... WTF.......

Oh, I guess the puts you in the "inflationista's" camp.

troy schwab
08-05-2011, 10:43 AM
Oh, I guess the puts you in the "inflationista's" camp.

Care to argue ANY OF IT??????????

Didnt think so.......

caryalsobrook
08-05-2011, 11:23 AM
I will only address this right now because it is 10:15 PM in South Dakota and I need to get out of my office and home to eat supper and go to bed...

When I said:

"With the rate on the 10 year, they are actually in essence "paying" the US Government to borrow their money."

What I meant by this is, if there are expectations for high inflation, and investors believe that this expectation will come to fruition, then they expect to take a loss due to inflation. If they are willingly taking a loss, then in essence they are willing to pay the government for the privilege of holding on to their money for 10 years. The government is in this case borrowing money at a negative rate compared to inflation because what they return to the investor after 10 years is worth less than the investor lent to the government in the first place.

I don't know why anyone would do that unless they:

A. Believed that government bonds where the only safe place for them to stash their money besides their mattress where they'll take a bigger loss to inflation.
B. They don't believe that high inflation rates are coming.

I looked up the definition of "essence" to make sure of my accuracy of its definition and I am glad I did. Here it is: "that which makes a thing what it is". Not sure how one would consider your statement accurate since the fact is that lenders do not pay the gov. money to borrow their money. However I probably understood what you meant.

I almost completely agree with your statements A& B. So let's take B first. I would modify it to say "anticipated inflation or actual inflation". Only a slight difference. I argue that current inflation is actually higher today than say in 2008 and anticipated higher inflation is and will be higher in the future. I hav cited factual numbers of those things indicating actual higher inflation. Are you argueing these numbers are wrong? I would like to know. If they do in fact show the presence of higher inflation, then you would have to admit that this is not the dominate reason for such low interest rates.

Now look at your statement "A" which I also agree with. But let me go further and say that people invest their money based on two major factors those being "RISK VERSUS RETURN". If they feel that the "risk" is too high for the anticipated return" then they will choose not to invest. If they are willing to invest in that which returns a sure negative real return, then they cannot find an investment given the "risk" that might return a positive real return. Let me give you some examples of those things that have taken place in the last 2 1/2 years that in my opinion have severely affected in the desire of the market to invest. Take the health care bill with thousands of waivers. If you see a risk of your compeditors gaining a waiver and you don't thus giving them a competitive advantage to them, then surely your willingness to invest will decrease or even become nonexistant. Another example would be if you are affraid that the gov. might subsidize a similar but different product that you consider to be a possible replacement for your product then again you might be reluctant to invest. A prime example of this is actually the Chevy Volt which the gov. subsidizes to the tune of over $7,000. What if your company built internal combustion engines or parts for it for that matter. Just some things for you to thinkabout.

As a side note. I must admit your comment about the Tea Party almost made me throw up. All of us at times speak without thinking, just human nature especially if frustrated. I suspect your creditability would be higher if you either justified such statements or just said that you spoke to quickly. I don't think I have ever attacked anyone on this forum personally and hope no one feels that I have and this is not meant as an attact on you. Just something for you to think about. I enjoy our discussions frankly since you are liberal in your thought.

Cary Alsobrook

Uncle Bill
08-05-2011, 11:41 AM
You folks need to understand where Buzz got his 'smarts' when discussing the gubmint. I'm just not sure why he would leave his nirvana for such a lowly place as Sodak...Oh that's right...he has a job here.

Hold onto your warped way of thinking, Buzz. When you return to the peninsula, or as the folks in "Joisey" call it...Uppa Youass...you won't have any of us Tea Party "jokes" as you see it, to cause your taxes to go up. Unfortunately you won't have Grandholm to genuflect to anymore.

UB


Let’s review what happened in Michigan in 2007 after the state’s budget problem was “solved” with tax increases:
Under pressure from the state’s balanced-budget requirement — another crucial difference between Michigan then and Washington today — and after a brief government shutdown on October 1, Senate Republicans warily agreed to a deal involving a mix of tax hikes and benefits reform. They agreed to hike income taxes by 12 percent and impose a new set of service taxes on select business activity, raising $1.5 billion. In return, Republicans got fragile promises of spending reform.


“This budget agreement is the right solution for Michigan,” crowed a victorious Granholm. “We prevented massive cuts to public education, health care, and public safety while also making extensive government reforms and passing new revenue. With the state back on solid financial footing, we can turn our focus to the critical task of jumpstarting our economy and creating new jobs.”


Barack Obama couldn’t have said it better. Did it solve the problem?


“Within literally hours of passing the tax hike,” recounts Mackinac Center legislative analyst Jack McHugh, “the legislature passed bills spending the entire $1.4 billion.” By the time Granholm handed over the wheel to Republican Rick Snyder three years later, the deficit had ballooned to $2 billion amidst a stalled economy.

Steve Hester
08-05-2011, 11:19 PM
Anyone who thinks we don't have horrible inflation has to be smoking crack!!
I'm not talking about government propaganda inflation. I'm talking about real inflation; gas, groceries, clothes, medicine, utilities, etc., the essentials of life, which our F'd up government does not even include in their inflation numbers. Between gas, groceries and cigarettes, I need a second job just to keep up.

Bayou Magic
08-06-2011, 06:51 AM
Anyone who thinks we don't have horrible inflation has to be smoking crack!!
I'm not talking about government propaganda inflation. I'm talking about real inflation; gas, groceries, clothes, medicine, utilities, etc., the essentials of life, which our F'd up government does not even include in their inflation numbers. Between gas, groceries and cigarettes, I need a second job just to keep up.

The low inflation rate and current jobless numbers are possibly the two biggest lies being sold to the public by the government. WHY doesn't the public demand some honesty in these matters. Sticking our heads in the sand does not address the problems and solves nothing.

fp

Gerry Clinchy
08-06-2011, 08:02 AM
It's seems totally mindless not to include groceries and energy in any assessment of "inflation". For the average American, the cost of groceries is a very real hit that the wealthy (like most of our legislators) never feel. Same for gas.

cotts135
08-06-2011, 10:27 AM
Buzz,
The person you quote is wrong about Obumma not having any tax increases yet, so I will need their crap no further than that.
Fact: Federal tax on cigs has been increased and that has been a fact for a while.
Fact : 10% tax on going to the tanning salon is already in effect.
Those are 2 off the top of my head, so YES BUMMA HAS INCREASED TAXES!

Does that still mean that 49% of the people in this country don't pay any taxes? I mean I hear that figure a lot from the conservatives who find it convenient not to include those types of taxes. Do they count?

huntinman
08-06-2011, 10:33 AM
Does that still mean that 49% of the people in this country don't pay any taxes? I mean I hear that figure a lot from the conservatives who find it convenient not to include those types of taxes. Do they count?

Income taxes.... and it's up to 51%

luvmylabs23139
08-06-2011, 10:58 AM
Does that still mean that 49% of the people in this country don't pay any taxes? I mean I hear that figure a lot from the conservatives who find it convenient not to include those types of taxes. Do they count?

NO, 51% pay zero federeal income taxes. I would love to get a number on those who actually have a profit on federal income taxes. By that I mean zero liability and a nice check from the real taxpayers.
Both of the taxes I listed for no other reason than BUMFACE did raise taxes are personally avoidable by not smoking or going to the tanning salon.
However,
THe increase in federal cig tax was used and implimented to SPEND more money on some kids healthcare program (SOCIALISM ). Has nothing to do with smoking. The numbers failed. THey increased the spending and claimed it would reduce smoking. The facts are the increase in spending vs the tax increase would require a great increase in cig sales to net out.
So to just not lose money, many more people would need to start smoking.
How stupid is that?

Gerry Clinchy
08-06-2011, 11:17 AM
I'd venture that each time the cig tax goes up, some people DO stop smoking. Thus, negating some of the anticipated revenue from the tax.

Lest we forget, though, such increases can also stimulate more black market activity (from states with lower cig tax to states with higher cig tax).

It occurs to me, if you get Medicaid, are you required to quit smoking? Or quit using illegal drugs? Wonder why not?

luvmylabs23139
08-06-2011, 11:22 AM
[quote=Gerry Clinchy;835735]
Lest we forget, though, such increases can also stimulate more black market activity (from states with lower cig tax to states with higher cig tax).

quote]
Not just cig taxes but also state sales and gas taxes.

Buzz
08-06-2011, 12:37 PM
Does that still mean that 49% of the people in this country don't pay any taxes? I mean I hear that figure a lot from the conservatives who find it convenient not to include those types of taxes. Do they count?

Conservatives love it when the wealthiest among us and the corporations don't have to pay taxes. They hate it when the "lucky duckies" don't have to pay.

See lucky duckies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

caryalsobrook
08-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Does that still mean that 49% of the people in this country don't pay any taxes? I mean I hear that figure a lot from the conservatives who find it convenient not to include those types of taxes. Do they count?

The taxes you speak of 100% pay, the taxes conservatives speak of ONLY 51% PAY. Simple sweet and acurate if you don't mix apples and oranges.

Alex
08-06-2011, 03:49 PM
Anyone who thinks we don't have horrible inflation has to be smoking crack!!
I'm not talking about government propaganda inflation. I'm talking about real inflation; gas, groceries, clothes, medicine, utilities, etc., the essentials of life, which our F'd up government does not even include in their inflation numbers. Between gas, groceries and cigarettes, I need a second job just to keep up.

Do you have a source saying that gas, groceries, clothes, medicine, utilities etc aren't figured into inflation numbers?

I would find that hard to believe.

However I would believe anything from Washington nowadays.

Those great statesman who were all pontificating {rather than solving} for the past couple of months about fixing the nations staggering debt problem.

These same great statesmen then went on paid vacation BEFORE fixing the FAA funding issue. The waste they are arguing about costs taxpayers 16 mil a year. The revenue they are losing out on is about 300 million a DAY.

Some even suggested that the laid off FAA employees come back to the job without paychecks in the interest of loyalty. All the while while the congresscritters who caused the problem are on PAID VACATION

Im sure the airline lobbyists are very pleased that their bought and paid for congress is helping them in this windfall

Vote all the bastards out!!!!!

cotts135
08-06-2011, 03:54 PM
The taxes you speak of 100% pay, the taxes conservatives speak of ONLY 51% PAY. Simple sweet and acurate if you don't mix apples and oranges.

It is a misleading figure. Sure, it makes a great soundbite but if you look into the figure just a little bit it is not what you think it is. It is based on if you are over 18 .What about college students who don't work or the indigent or the unemployed who do not even cross the threshold of earnings to pay taxes. How about that family of 4 below the poverty level ( $ 22,050) or disabled, including veterans. It is just not what it is made out to be.

caryalsobrook
08-06-2011, 05:16 PM
It is a misleading figure. Sure, it makes a great soundbite but if you look into the figure just a little bit it is not what you think it is. It is based on if you are over 18 .What about college students who don't work or the indigent or the unemployed who do not even cross the threshold of earnings to pay taxes. How about that family of 4 below the poverty level ( $ 22,050) or disabled, including veterans. It is just not what it is made out to be.
Misleading? No they are facts. The college kid who doesn't work? They can work too and I and many like me did. Family of 4? Maybe they should have remained a family of 2 or maybe even 1 until they could afford to be a family of 4. Disabled? kThe gov. has never been in the charity business. What they are in is using OPM(other people"s money) to regulate and control. Charity is the business of the individual and comes from the heart. Charity is to help those WHO THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN find themselves in dire circumstances. The people of this country who have ben blessed have no trouble helping those. The gov. today even resents such help, evidenced by the POTUS wanting to even tax charity. Why to allow the gov. to regulate and control and make those truly in need to be dependent on the gov. for help.

I suspect that those who feel that it is the gov. place to give charity are those that choose not to offer their time and/or resources themselves.

caryalsobrook
08-06-2011, 05:33 PM
Cotts135, I believe I know where Watertown is. You can correct me if I am wrong. It is right across the Hudson River from NYC. Right after college, I took a job with the Dept. of Commerce doing real estate sales surveys traveling all over the country. My first town to visit was Watertown and I was there about 2 months. I was on a per diem expense account and was reimbursed after filling out an expense account at the end of the month, so I had to pay my expenses out of pocket and wait for reimbursement. The wait for the money was taking a long time and I was running out of money. I knew that once I got the first expense check then I would be fine. I was calling Washington daily asking about the check and was down to eating only one meal a day at McDonalds. Staying in a little strip motel close to the Hudson River, I finally reach the point that i could no longeer pay for the room. I went to the office and told the owner my situation. I then told him that I could pay for the room tonight but I could not pay for the room tomorrow night. He told me not to worry about it and just pay him when I got my expense check. Relieved, I started to leave. As I was leaving, he called to me asn asked me if I need any money. I told him no, I had enough to eat on. I have no idea what his name was nor do I know what he looked like but I have never forgotten him. People like him are eveywhere, you only have to open your eyes and see.

caryalsobrook
08-06-2011, 05:37 PM
Please forgive my typing. Very seldom do I proff read and I hope you see my mistakes as typographacal and not gramatical.

T. Mac
08-07-2011, 04:13 PM
I very interesting article if you really want to be depressed: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/why-the-debt-crisis-is-even-worse-than-you-think-07272011.html?campaign_id=rss_search

The graphs copied below give a pretty dismal view of what the future portends.

http://images.businessweek.com/cms/2011-08-01/or32__01__popup3.jpg

huntinman
08-07-2011, 06:35 PM
I think the size of the spending column is the problem.

Buzz
08-08-2011, 12:32 AM
See how medical spending constitutes about half of the first column?

That is why Obama came into office with HCR as a first item of business...

If we cannot control growth in healthcare spending, we're doomed.



I very interesting article if you really want to be depressed: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/why-the-debt-crisis-is-even-worse-than-you-think-07272011.html?campaign_id=rss_search

The graphs copied below give a pretty dismal view of what the future portends.

http://images.businessweek.com/cms/2011-08-01/or32__01__popup3.jpg

ppro
08-08-2011, 01:48 AM
Buzz are you serious? Obama didn't decrease medical spending he increased it. Both at the state and federal levels. We have passed that bill and now we got to actually see what that will cost. Thanks Nancy, Harry, and Barack.

huntinman
08-08-2011, 08:42 AM
See how medical spending constitutes about half of the first column?

That is why Obama came into office with HCR as a first item of business...

If we cannot control growth in healthcare spending, we're doomed.

Only one way to respond to this... In good old RK fashion.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Buzz
08-08-2011, 09:02 AM
Funny. In 2010 Republicans beat Democrats over the head with "Obama is going to pull the plug on granny," and "Democrats are cutting your Medicare."

road kill
08-08-2011, 09:15 AM
Funny. In 2010 Republicans beat Democrats over the head with "Obama is going to pull the plug on granny," and "Democrats are cutting your Medicare."
Hmmmmm.....

Well in 2011-2012 Republicans and that "terrorist" organization the "Tea Party"
(seems like just last year they were nothing more than an insignificant "astro-turf" group, and now they run Congress) will beat them over the head with "Obama Care.":D

How ya think that will work for ya??????:cool:


RK

Gerry Clinchy
08-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Buzz, the budget will never get balanced if we don't look at both revenue AND spending.

People working and investing generate more taxes than people who do not work or invest.

We are so far behind, that revenue collected must pay current bills and pay off the debt. That has to start with spending no more than anticipated revenues. And determining how best to generate greater revenues.

Whether for a corporation or a worker, there must be incentive to invest and to work.

There is finite wealth to be taxed unless new wealth continues to be generated. Our Congress got the idea that the ability to tax was infinite.

Marvin S
08-08-2011, 09:47 PM
KISS (remove some zero's) - So you're a person bringing in $21K per year but you're spending $37K per year with a credit card already at $143K. You make a deal around the family table that spending will be cut a grand total of $385. I am amazed the nation's credit score remains AA+ but it won't for long. Don't try that in real life :).

Uncle Bill
08-09-2011, 06:23 PM
KISS (remove some zero's) - So you're a person bringing in $21K per year but you're spending $37K per year with a credit card already at $143K. You make a deal around the family table that spending will be cut a grand total of $385. I am amazed the nation's credit score remains AA+ but it won't for long. Don't try that in real life :).


Unfortunately, Marvin, too many already have. Now they figure with food stamps and Obama's 'stash', they will be well again.

It's not very hard to recognize what's running the country, when you see all the fools that voted for these representatives. And if the Electoral college used to select the POTUS is abandoned, there will be nothing sane voters can do to halt what's happening.

If it doesn't get done in 2012, it won't.

UB