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FOM
08-17-2011, 01:43 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/17/tennessee-doctor-told-to-remove-american-flag-flying-at-office/

There would be in one hell of a fight if I was there!! UGH!!

Lainee

troy schwab
08-17-2011, 02:12 PM
I would paint the biggest american flag ever..... right on the building. WOW, this country IS going to hell in a hand basket.

road kill
08-17-2011, 02:24 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/17/tennessee-doctor-told-to-remove-american-flag-flying-at-office/

There would be in one hell of a fight if I was there!! UGH!!

Lainee

To answer your title question......LEADERSHIP!!!
We have none.

RK

Raymond Little
08-17-2011, 02:32 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/17/tennessee-doctor-told-to-remove-american-flag-flying-at-office/

There would be in one hell of a fight if I was there!! UGH!!

Lainee

What are you doing over here on the "Wild Side"??
Must have gotten bored:p

Jeff Huntington
08-17-2011, 02:36 PM
Funny I went to Germantown Middle School in eight grade (long time ago). Gtown always known as well to do folks. If you read the article, it paints a little different scenario. Neverless, a sticky subject.

FOM
08-17-2011, 02:42 PM
What are you doing over here on the "Wild Side"??
Must have gotten bored:p

Oh come on I've been watching you guys since POTUS was started ;) but you all scare me...I try my best not to mix politics and dogs, it's kind of like talking about....well never mind I would hate to moderate myself! :razz:

FOM

road kill
08-17-2011, 02:50 PM
Funny I went to Germantown Middle School in eight grade (long time ago). Gtown always known as well to do folks. If you read the article, it paints a little different scenario. Neverless, a sticky subject.
What's sticky about it??

This is still the USA, and she wants to fly a USA flag.

BAM......end of story!!

Fly the flag of the your country PROUDLY!!!

We fought for that flag and all it represents.
If that offends anyone, GET OUT!!!


Just sayin'.........

RK

FOM
08-17-2011, 02:51 PM
To answer your title question......LEADERSHIP!!!
We have none.

RK

Is that leadership from the top or bottom? I honestly feel that it is an issue with the lack of a "family" focused values...it is harder in Todays' society with mixed and broken families (divorce) but those values can still be instilled in our youth.

I was spanked as a child and I feared my Mother more than principle and his paddle! I respected my elders and if I didn't I feared my Mother would find out. I said the pledge of allegiance with pride and did not think saying "under one God" was offensive! We were raised that you will do a minimum of 4 years of service to your country - freedom is not free and my Dad understood this as his parents fled Japan. I was grounded as a kid, I had to work for anything I wanted, I had chores and responsibilities...I "hated my parents for being mean" to me as I was growing up, but now that I'm grown up I would of had it no other way.

Or youth today are brought up with a very self entitlement attitude, everyone wins, there are no losers and can't we all just get along....give me, give me, give me!

Our problems start at a lower level....leadership from the top is good, but without the leadership at the bottom, nothing will improve....

Okay I'm going to shut up now...

FOM

road kill
08-17-2011, 03:17 PM
Is that leadership from the top or bottom? I honestly feel that it is an issue with the lack of a "family" focused values...it is harder in Todays' society with mixed and broken families (divorce) but those values can still be instilled in our youth.

I was spanked as a child and I feared my Mother more than principle and his paddle! I respected my elders and if I didn't I feared my Mother would find out. I said the pledge of allegiance with pride and did not think saying "under one God" was offensive! We were raised that you will do a minimum of 4 years of service to your country - freedom is not free and my Dad understood this as his parents fled Japan. I was grounded as a kid, I had to work for anything I wanted, I had chores and responsibilities...I "hated my parents for being mean" to me as I was growing up, but now that I'm grown up I would of had it no other way.

Or youth today are brought up with a very self entitlement attitude, everyone wins, there are no losers and can't we all just get along....give me, give me, give me!

Our problems start at a lower level....leadership from the top is good, but without the leadership at the bottom, nothing will improve....

Okay I'm going to shut up now...

FOM
Your Mom displayed admirable leadership!!
In regard to this issue, it may be more than something our Moms and Dads can fix.

You want to fky YOUR flag and someone gives you greif, give me a hollar, I got your back on this one!!:cool:


RK

Blackstone
08-18-2011, 01:58 PM
I’m probably going to take a lot of grief for this, but here it goes.

Is the problem that she is flying an American flag, or is it because she broke the association’s rules by putting up a flag pole and flag (regardless of type) on the property? If the latter is the case, she should have to take it down, or get permission to have it there. If you live in a subdivision with a home owner’s association, they have certain rules about what you can and cannot do to your property. You know what the rules are when you move there. If you don’t like them, don’t move in, or work to get them changed. You can’t just ignore them and do what you want. I don’t know if this is the case. It really wasn’t clear in the story. But, if it is, she shouldn’t try to make it about the American flag.

charly_t
08-18-2011, 02:40 PM
I feel very strongly about this having had a grandson go on two tours of duty in the bad places. It should be my right and his parents right to fly a flag any way we want to. I'm just glad that I don't live in one of these cities/places in the USA where people seem determined to make everyone fit into a cookie cutter shape that others have decreed. I can see the need to control what and how many animals people are allowed to have in cities because of the smells etc. but deciding what kind of grass or groundcover that people are allowed to use is just a little too restrictive. And never should we be prevented from flying a flag if it is not a danger to someone or something.

Cody Covey
08-18-2011, 02:46 PM
I feel very strongly about this having had a grandson go on two tours of duty in the bad places. It should be my right and his parents right to fly a flag any way we want to. I'm just glad that I don't live in one of these cities/places in the USA where people seem determined to make everyone fit into a cookie cutter shape that others have decreed. I can see the need to control what and how many animals people are allowed to have in cities because of the smells etc. but deciding what kind of grass or groundcover that people are allowed to use is just a little too restrictive. And never should we be prevented from flying a flag if it is not a danger to someone or something.

But the thing is you have made that decision to not live in one of those places. The same way the doctor made the decision to work there and signed a contract saying they wouldn't put up flags. There are flags in the complex already. This is simply a case of someone not following the rules and wanting publicity.

huntinman
08-18-2011, 02:53 PM
But the thing is you have made that decision to not live in one of those places. The same way the doctor made the decision to work there and signed a contract saying they wouldn't put up flags. There are flags in the complex already. This is simply a case of someone not following the rules and wanting publicity.

I would be surprised if the contract made any mention of flags

charly_t
08-18-2011, 03:02 PM
But the thing is you have made that decision to not live in one of those places. The same way the doctor made the decision to work there and signed a contract saying they wouldn't put up flags. There are flags in the complex already. This is simply a case of someone not following the rules and wanting publicity.

So it has been made clear that she did have a copy of the rules etc. ? What I read was she had not been given a copy of the rules. If she actually knew then we have a different scene. But........I still feel strongly that flying our flag should not have been a "no-no" anyplace in the USA. I also feel that people who make this kind of rule need an attitude adjustment. Maybe they should be the ones who need to go elsewhere !

road kill
08-18-2011, 03:16 PM
But the thing is you have made that decision to not live in one of those places. The same way the doctor made the decision to work there and signed a contract saying they wouldn't put up flags. There are flags in the complex already. This is simply a case of someone not following the rules and wanting publicity.

Perhaps you might peruse the article and elaborate to us where you got your "inside" info.
The article itself paints a different picture than yours;



Tennessee Woman Told to Remove American Flag Outside Her Optometry Office
By Todd Starnes

Published August 17, 2011
|Dawn Kamin said she would expect opposition to the flying of an American flag in more liberal parts of the country – but not the suburbs of Memphis, Tenn.

Kamin said she was ordered to remove an American flag she had posted outside her optometry office.

“I was just appalled,” said Kamin, who runs Affordable Eye Care in Germantown, Tenn. “It’s the American flag. Really?”

Really.

According to a letter sent to Dr. Kamin, the flag pole and the flag violated the bylaws of the business condominium group. She was told to take down the flag or face the consequences.

Officials with Tesco Properties told Fox News Radio they would not comment on specific issues related to the flag controversy “as they should be dealt with in the appropriate manner between the parties and not through the media.”

However, a spokesman did release an email to Fox News Radio noting that the Corporate Center Condominiums, run by Tesco Properties, prominently flies two American flags.

“Placing additional flags in common areas in order to bring greater attention to a particular business is inappropriate,” the spokesman wrote. “On behalf of all owners in the park, we proudly fly two American flags in honor of those who have died for our freedom and those serving our country.”

Recently, fights between residents and homeowners' associations over the flying of the American flag have captured national headlines. While some cases centered around the illegal placement of a flag pole, not the flag itself, it remains unclear what exactly Tesco Properties is objecting to.

“Everyone is up in arms about this,” she told Fox News Radio. “They cannot believe that in Germantown, Tenn., that they would not allow us to fly the American flag.”

Kamin said she was flying the flag to honor the military.

“I have family in the military and we have really become aware of our freedoms and what our soldiers do for us,” she said. “It’s not tacky. It’s just out of respect for our military and the wonderful country that we have the privilege of living in.”

Kamin demanded to see the business condominium’s bylaws, but she said so far Tesco Properties has not complied.

The company spokesman said that unit owners are responsible for interior spaces and the condo association is responsible for maintaining exterior common areas.

“They didn’t give me anything in writing,” she said. “All they gave me were threats.”
She said the condo association told her that if the flag was not removed by August 22, they would remove it and she would be required to cover the costs. Kamin said that’s not going to happen – and now she’s got an attorney.

“I intend on flying it as long as I possibly can,” she said.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/17/tennessee-doctor-told-to-remove-american-flag-flying-at-office/#ixzz1VPRZfb1v

What do you know we and the author don't?

Do you live there?
Or are you just born smarter than everyoine else?
Or does this knowledge just come to youfrom being a progressive?

Just askin'.....


RK

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 03:50 PM
From what I can tell, she violated the bylaws, "the flag pole and the flag violated the bylaws of the business condominium group." That is clearly in the article. The fact that she didn't know the rules is not a valid excuse as is the same in the laws of the country. For example, you cannot claim you didn't know the speed limit when you were pulled over for going 30mph over it. You will still get the speeding ticket and will be forced to pay.

Her ONLY recourse is to get the bylaws and follow them. EVERY condo association has bylaws. Why didn't she get them when she bought the place? Why didn't she ask for them? Basically this is ALL on her. Tesco Properties should, of course, give her a copy of the bylaws to replace her misplaced copy. She is wasting her money getting a lawyer as he won't really be able to do anything.

What I hate is people not giving the American Flag the "proper" amount of respect and say that the American Flag should be flown where ever and whenever they want. You don't get that right. If you want to talk about the flying of the American Flag go after the people that fly it in the rain or at night without lights on it or many of the other abuses the American people do to their flags. Don't sit there and tell me that she should be able to fly a flag or a pair of pants where ever and whenever she wants, especially when there are two American Flags being flown on the property as it is.

This isn't about the American Flag, it is about a woman that isn't following the bylaws of the association and the fact that she thinks she is being dictated to. This would not be any different if she was a member of this site and wasn't picking up her dog's poop even though it is in the bylaws that you must pick up after her dog.

Cody Covey
08-18-2011, 04:08 PM
Perhaps you might peruse the article and elaborate to us where you got your "inside" info.
The article itself paints a different picture than yours;



What do you know we and the author don't?

Do you live there?
Or are you just born smarter than everyoine else?
Or does this knowledge just come to youfrom being a progressive?

Just askin'.....


RKSee Loki's post above it explains it all.

I do however think it's funny to be called a progressive. I'm about as right as they come I just don't happen to get up in arms because some lady can't follow the rules she agreed to. Just because you guys ran DNF and Yardley off doesn't mean Franco, me, and I'm sure others get to become your "democrats".

road kill
08-18-2011, 04:17 PM
See Loki's post above it explains it all.

I do however think it's funny to be called a progressive. I'm about as right as they come I just don't happen to get up in arms because some lady can't follow the rules she agreed to. Just because you guys ran DNF and Yardley off doesn't mean Franco, me, and I'm sure others get to become your "democrats".
"Called a progressive," as though that is evil or a "slang" name.
It is not, it is accurate.

Please show me in the article the rule she violated.
You are assuming, without facts.
I am going by what's shown.

If she signed a contract up front and violated it......she is wrong.
If the rule became a rule after the fact it is bogus.


RK

Cody Covey
08-18-2011, 04:20 PM
"Called a progressive," as though that is evil or a "slang" name.
It is not, it is accurate.

Please show me in the article the rule she violated.
You are assuming, without facts.
I am going by what's shown.

If she signed a contract up front and violated it......she is wrong.
If the rule became a rule after the fact it is bogus.


RK

Do you not see in the article that the owners said she violated the bylaws?

Also I would be interested to see your evidence of me being a progressive?

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 04:28 PM
"Called a progressive," as though that is evil or a "slang" name.
It is not, it is accurate.

Please show me in the article the rule she violated.
You are assuming, without facts.
I am going by what's shown.

If she signed a contract up front and violated it......she is wrong.
If the rule became a rule after the fact it is bogus.


RK

God, I hate repeating myself when it is unneeded. Please reread the article and note the passage: "the flag pole and the flag violated the bylaws of the business condominium group."

Again I ask, why didn't she get the bylaws before signing the purchase agreement? When I bought my condo, I did. I wouldn't have made an offer without seeing the bylaws. I would bet that there is a clause that says something like "you are not allowed to alter the common areas without association consent." This obviously is altering the common areas. Get off your high horse RK and spend your typing on something worthwhile, like people keeping their flag out in the rain without lights.

road kill
08-18-2011, 04:29 PM
Do you not see in the article that the owners said she violated the bylaws?

Also I would be interested to see your evidence of me being a progressive?

I highlighted it in red.
They have not shown her the rule in written form.
Your opinion on this matter and other posts lead me to the conclusion of progressivism.

It's OK, I have been labeled a few things by those who haven't met me, but know all about me.
If I am wrong or it offends you, my apologies.


stan b

Franco
08-18-2011, 04:30 PM
I've been involved with enough real estate to understand that if there is not an association of owners, then anything goes. When that happens, all the property owners lose value.

I remember one instance where a person decide to fly the Iranian flag in our neighborhood during the hostage situation. If we didn't have an association with By-Laws we could not have had the flag removed. Likewise, without By-laws, what is to prevent someone from parking on thier front lawn or placing a perminent dumbster in front of thier home or any number of issues that lower property value.

Cody Covey
08-18-2011, 04:33 PM
But they don't have to show her, at least not now, ignorance of the rule doesn't forgive breaking the rule. She obviously saw the bylaws when she signed the lease. She also obviously didn't read them or forgot.

road kill
08-18-2011, 04:35 PM
But they don't have to show her, at least not now, ignorance of the rule doesn't forgive breaking the rule. She obviously saw the bylaws when she signed the lease. She also obviously didn't read them or forgot.

I do not see that in what is written and presented here.

RK

Blackstone
08-18-2011, 04:35 PM
"Called a progressive," as though that is evil or a "slang" name.
It is not, it is accurate.

Please show me in the article the rule she violated.
You are assuming, without facts.
I am going by what's shown.

If she signed a contract up front and violated it......she is wrong.
If the rule became a rule after the fact it is bogus.


RK

A copy of the bylaws is the first thing I got from the home owners association when I moved into a subdivision that had a home owners association. So, I find it hard to believe she didn’t get a copy. Even if she didn’t, I would think she would be willing to remove it once they pointed out to her that she was in violation.

Changes to Association bylaws are usually voted on by the home/business owners, so even if the bylaws were changed after she moved in, she would still be bound by the change.

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 04:41 PM
I do not see that in what is written and presented here.

RK

OBVIOUSLY, the author didn't put that in the article to curry favor with the business owner and not the association, duh.:rolleyes:

road kill
08-18-2011, 04:43 PM
OBVIOUSLY, the author didn't put that in the article to curry favor with the business owner and not the association, duh.:rolleyes:

But you know it exists and the content.
I see.

And you ask why I think you are a progressive?


RK

caryalsobrook
08-18-2011, 04:48 PM
Just a word from one who at one time owned both a condomenium office and a condimeniun residence. Never again will I own one. The office was the worst nightmare. First if you choose to do so, let me make you aware of some things you might have to deal with. First, the builder may and probably does have certain priviledges until all units are buillt and sold. Second, even if you read the association bylaws, you still may be in for a shock.

My office was on the end and before I bought it I required a sidewalk be built and run to the back providing a back door(there were two doors orginally opening to the front. Later, he put a heating and cooling in the middle of my sidewalk and ran ductwork under my office to the adjoining office. the arguement was that the crawlspace and the attic space were infinished space and as a result was considered common space which the builder had access to. I consulted a lawyer which blahed, blahed as the vagueness of ownership of the space. parking was also a problem since my office was the largest and the one next to me was the smallest, yet with three psychologists as owners, they along with their patients took up far more of the parking spaces than anybody else. Yet cost of each unit and parking was based on square footage. As a result I paid not only the most for the unit but a pro rata amount in maintenance which included the parking lot, yet my neighbor who paid the least used the largest share of the lot. Not a lot I could do about it until I retired and sold it. NEVER AGAIN.

sound sort of familiar? Pay the most and get the least. Logic was the psychologists could not afford a large unit.

As to the case in queation, I guarantee you the flag is on space designated as common area and the association controls it, not her. Sorry but experience says SHE LOSES. Conclusion, NEVER BUY A CONDIMINIUM.

Just my experience.

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 04:54 PM
But you know it exists and the content.
I see.

And you ask why I think you are a progressive?


RK

I never called you progressive, that was someone else, you will have to look.

BonMallari
08-18-2011, 05:17 PM
Just a word from one who at one time owned both a condomenium office and a condimeniun residence. Never again will I own one. The office was the worst nightmare. First if you choose to do so, let me make you aware of some things you might have to deal with. First, the builder may and probably does have certain priviledges until all units are buillt and sold. Second, even if you read the association bylaws, you still may be in for a shock.

My office was on the end and before I bought it I required a sidewalk be built and run to the back providing a back door(there were two doors orginally opening to the front. Later, he put a heating and cooling in the middle of my sidewalk and ran ductwork under my office to the adjoining office. the arguement was that the crawlspace and the attic space were infinished space and as a result was considered common space which the builder had access to. I consulted a lawyer which blahed, blahed as the vagueness of ownership of the space. parking was also a problem since my office was the largest and the one next to me was the smallest, yet with three psychologists as owners, they along with their patients took up far more of the parking spaces than anybody else. Yet cost of each unit and parking was based on square footage. As a result I paid not only the most for the unit but a pro rata amount in maintenance which included the parking lot, yet my neighbor who paid the least used the largest share of the lot. Not a lot I could do about it until I retired and sold it. NEVER AGAIN.

sound sort of familiar? Pay the most and get the least. Logic was the psychologists could not afford a large unit.

As to the case in queation, I guarantee you the flag is on space designated as common area and the association controls it, not her. Sorry but experience says SHE LOSES. Conclusion, NEVER BUY A CONDIMINIUM.

Just my experience.


or as Rocky Balboa says..." condominium..never use em" :rolleyes:

huntinman
08-18-2011, 05:26 PM
Just a word from one who at one time owned both a condomenium office and a condimeniun residence. Never again will I own one. The office was the worst nightmare. First if you choose to do so, let me make you aware of some things you might have to deal with. First, the builder may and probably does have certain priviledges until all units are buillt and sold. Second, even if you read the association bylaws, you still may be in for a shock.

My office was on the end and before I bought it I required a sidewalk be built and run to the back providing a back door(there were two doors orginally opening to the front. Later, he put a heating and cooling in the middle of my sidewalk and ran ductwork under my office to the adjoining office. the arguement was that the crawlspace and the attic space were infinished space and as a result was considered common space which the builder had access to. I consulted a lawyer which blahed, blahed as the vagueness of ownership of the space. parking was also a problem since my office was the largest and the one next to me was the smallest, yet with three psychologists as owners, they along with their patients took up far more of the parking spaces than anybody else. Yet cost of each unit and parking was based on square footage. As a result I paid not only the most for the unit but a pro rata amount in maintenance which included the parking lot, yet my neighbor who paid the least used the largest share of the lot. Not a lot I could do about it until I retired and sold it. NEVER AGAIN.

sound sort of familiar? Pay the most and get the least. Logic was the psychologists could not afford a large unit.

As to the case in queation, I guarantee you the flag is on space designated as common area and the association controls it, not her. Sorry but experience says SHE LOSES. Conclusion, NEVER BUY A CONDIMINIUM.

Just my experience.

Cary, I think you are right...but that doesn't make it RIGHT. If the dweebs at the condo assoc had any sense at all they would just leave it alone. It is an American flag in honor of soldiers who are currently at war for goodness sake. Never saw so many people argue against that, shouldn't be surprised I guess.

Hew
08-18-2011, 05:39 PM
My thoughts are bolded...


I've been involved with enough real estate to understand that if there is not an association of owners, then anything goes. Yeah, let's have none of that FREEDOM stuff. How Libertarian. :p When that happens, all the property owners lose value. Not so much...excessive HOA dues (particularly in condos) can sometimes devalue a property. And the devaluation can be like a snowball...the more vacant houses the cost of footing the dues goes up to the remaining residents. And then the vacant houses can't sell because HOA liens are attached so they remain a vacant blight that must be mowed at the HOA's expense which in turn causes higher HOA dues, which in turn.... And there's a segment of the population (ME) who would never buy in an HOA area as I don't want anyone telling me what color I can paint my house or have to ask their permission to use a particular kind of roof tile.

I remember one instance where a person decide to fly the Iranian flag in our neighborhood during the hostage situation. If we didn't have an association with By-Laws we could not have had the flag removed. Perhaps not, but if any of his neighbors had a hair on their ass they would have removed the flag on their own. Problem solved...with or without an HOA. Where the heck was that where someone could fly a flag purposely thumbing their nose at the country they lived in at a time of crisis and not have a neighbor cut the thing down and burn it?!? Like FOM's title of this thread, wtf has become of us when we would tolerate the flag of our enemy to be proudly flown in such a manner? Can anyone imagine their father, grandfather, whatever tolerating a neighbor flying the Rising Sun flag in their yard after Pearl Harbor? Or having to air their grievance about it at the next HOA meeting? Good grief. :rolleyes: Likewise, without By-laws, what is to prevent someone from parking on thier front lawn or placing a perminent dumbster in front of thier home or any number of issues that lower property value. City/county code enforcement.

caryalsobrook
08-18-2011, 05:39 PM
Cary, I think you are right...but that doesn't make it RIGHT. If the dweebs at the condo assoc had any sense at all they would just leave it alone. It is an American flag in honor of soldiers who are currently at war for goodness sake. Never saw so many people argue against that, shouldn't be surprised I guess.

Make no doubt about it, I agree with you totally. That is why I said NEVER AGAIN WILL I OWN ONE!!!

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 05:48 PM
Cary, I think you are right...but that doesn't make it RIGHT. If the dweebs at the condo assoc had any sense at all they would just leave it alone. It is an American flag in honor of soldiers who are currently at war for goodness sake. Never saw so many people argue against that, shouldn't be surprised I guess.

You aren't getting the point. There are already two flags on the property. What if everybody wanted their own flag? What if some people thought one wasn't enough? When does it stop? The reason they have these rules is so that property values don't go down because of all the crap that people tend to put on their lawns, etc.

The first dwelling I purchased was a condo and I am glad I did. It let me see the process especially after I joined the board to get some things done. Condo ownership is very good for a lot of reasons for a lot of people.

Blackstone
08-18-2011, 05:53 PM
Cary, I think you are right...but that doesn't make it RIGHT. If the dweebs at the condo assoc had any sense at all they would just leave it alone. It is an American flag in honor of soldiers who are currently at war for goodness sake. Never saw so many people argue against that, shouldn't be surprised I guess.

The problem with that is, if you let her get away with it, how you enforce the rules for everyone else. If a person decides to paint their condo pumpkin orange, how does the association tell them they can't, and how do they enforce it? They have already set precedence by allowing the flag lady to break the rules. You can just throw the bylaws in the trash.

road kill
08-18-2011, 06:04 PM
The problem with that is, if you let her get away with it, how you enforce the rules for everyone else. If a person decides to paint their condo pumpkin orange, how does the association tell them they can't, and how do they enforce it? They have already set precedence by allowing the flag lady to break the rules. You can just throw the bylaws in the trash.

The Association could squash this all very quickly.

Publish the "by-laws" you assume exist.

In the America I grew up in, you are innocent until proven guilty and PC rules don't matter in the rule of law.

I see that is not the same with our assumptive thinkers here!!:cool:

RK

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 06:31 PM
The Association could squash this all very quickly.

Publish the "by-laws" you assume exist.

In the America I grew up in, you are innocent until proven guilty and PC rules don't matter in the rule of law.

I see that is not the same with our asumptive thinkers here!!:cool:

RK

You are assuming the bylaws aren't already published.

caryalsobrook
08-18-2011, 06:32 PM
The Association could squash this all very quickly.

Publish the "by-laws" you assume exist.

In the America I grew up in, you are innocent until proven guilty and PC rules don't matter in the rule of law.

I see that is not the same with our asumptive thinkers here!!:cool:

RK
It's more than just the bylaws RK. It is also the rules passed by the board.
My residence condo was a group af about 100. I had modified the carport to house to store my bass boat to comply with bylaws and board rules. I had been asked to serve on the board but wanted no part of it. I just wanted to pay my dues and leave the rest up to the board. Low and behold they then passed a regulation that boats that even were stored in the carport had to be covered with a tarp( problem with this is that it caused mildew during the winter). Not only this but the tarp had to CATCH THE COLOR OF THE CONDIMENIUM.
I contacted one of the board members to find out why this rule was passed. His comment was that they hd forgotten about my boat and the regulation was passed to deal with an owner who had an old boat that hadn't even been lecesened to be on the water for 10 years and was used only to store garbage. It was next to one of the board members' condo and she wanted the rule to cover that particular boat. That lboat and mine were the only 2 in the condos and they had forgotten about mine. The board member commented that they had sent letters to the other for 2 years with no result. My question was "Why do you think they will pay any attention to the requirement to put a tarp over the boat if it has not been lecesened for 10 years and they ignore lthel board's letters to clean up their mess? The only other person affected by their rule was lme and mine was kept clean and neat? His response was "good question". My suggestion was to allow only those vehicles and boats that were currently licenesed. the result was the rule was resended the next meeting and no further action was taken.

If there is even one thing different from this cookie cutter sameness then there will be a problem. That is why now that I am reitred, I would love to sell my house on a golf course, and build on my farm where my neighbors will be dogs, and my dogs' neighbors will be their training grounds, my cotton, corn and soybeans. I will be able to raise ducks if I want to, take a leak or dump if i need to, and the the dogs can bark to their hearts' content if i choose to allow them to and nobody wi be bothered other than me. My life is too short to be bothered by someone else's bitching.

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Just a word from one who at one time owned both a condomenium office and a condimeniun residence. Never again will I own one. The office was the worst nightmare. First if you choose to do so, let me make you aware of some things you might have to deal with. First, the builder may and probably does have certain priviledges until all units are buillt and sold. Second, even if you read the association bylaws, you still may be in for a shock.

My office was on the end and before I bought it I required a sidewalk be built and run to the back providing a back door(there were two doors orginally opening to the front. Later, he put a heating and cooling in the middle of my sidewalk and ran ductwork under my office to the adjoining office. the arguement was that the crawlspace and the attic space were infinished space and as a result was considered common space which the builder had access to. I consulted a lawyer which blahed, blahed as the vagueness of ownership of the space. parking was also a problem since my office was the largest and the one next to me was the smallest, yet with three psychologists as owners, they along with their patients took up far more of the parking spaces than anybody else. Yet cost of each unit and parking was based on square footage. As a result I paid not only the most for the unit but a pro rata amount in maintenance which included the parking lot, yet my neighbor who paid the least used the largest share of the lot. Not a lot I could do about it until I retired and sold it. NEVER AGAIN.

sound sort of familiar? Pay the most and get the least. Logic was the psychologists could not afford a large unit.

As to the case in queation, I guarantee you the flag is on space designated as common area and the association controls it, not her. Sorry but experience says SHE LOSES. Conclusion, NEVER BUY A CONDIMINIUM.

Just my experience.

Did you ever go to the association to get a more equitable parking arrangement and/or fee structure?

caryalsobrook
08-18-2011, 06:37 PM
Did you ever go to the association to get a more equitable parking arrangement and/or fee structure?
Yep, answer was tough sh*#.

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 06:38 PM
Hew, you ever live in a deed restricted area? Nothing like driving down the road and seeing a nice well kept house followed by a pig-stye. Talk about lowering property values.

Blackstone
08-18-2011, 06:38 PM
The Association could squash this all very quickly.

Publish the "by-laws" you assume exist.

In the America I grew up in, you are innocent until proven guilty and PC rules don't matter in the rule of law.

I see that is not the same with our asumptive thinkers here!!:cool:

RK

Well, I've always been given a published copy by the home owners association every where I've moved. I guess it's possible this association didn't publish one, but I think it's unlikely. If they didn't, then they only have themselves to blame for the controversy. If they did, the flag lady needs to take the flag pole down.

LokiMeister
08-18-2011, 06:46 PM
...take a leak or dump if i need to, and the the dogs can bark to their hearts' content if i choose to allow them to...

You sound so bitter. Your house lose a lot of value so you can't sell? Ever thought about renting it out?

All the things above are reasons why we need bylaws and deed restrictions. I hate it when my neighbors dogs bark and hate it even more when mine do. If one of my neighbors was taking a dump in their yard I would ask them if their dogs are going to pick it up. :p

caryalsobrook
08-18-2011, 07:23 PM
You sound so bitter. Your house lose a lot of value so you can't sell? Ever thought about renting it out?

All the things above are reasons why we need bylaws and deed restrictions. I hate it when my neighbors dogs bark and hate it even more when mine do. If one of my neighbors was taking a dump in their yard I would ask them if their dogs are going to pick it up. :p
kSorry if I gave you the wrong impression. Just trying to point out some of the things unique to condos. Simply put, they try to put both square and round pegs in the same hole. You said that you served on the board. I am sure you are constantly hearing bitching and requests for a new rule to stop someone from doing something someone else doesn't like. I live in an area with restrictive covenants by deed and those I like. 90% brick, no fencing other than iron or brick(no chainlink or wood, minimum house size,ect.). Renting is really out of the question. a
A house 4000sf, nothing but 3/4 inch hardwood and ceramic tile flooring with custom crown moulding, ect with and additional 1100sf detached brick garage, is not one that would be something one would want to rent.

I meant taking a leak or dump figuratively and have never done that at my home. But I have at the farm while bush hoging, and even when training the dogs in the country. Some people like to live in Manhatten with concrete and skyscrapers. Me I had rather see corn, soybeans, cotton and grass witha few ponds. I built a house on a golf course thinking that you never have a problem selling a house on a golf course or water. Hasn't worked out. Not bitter but hoping it will before I am too old to move.

road kill
08-18-2011, 09:46 PM
You are assuming the bylaws aren't already published.
I have seen no facts to support otherwise.
The association is not forth coming with this written published info for the plaintiff or the news agency, but some how you are in the know.


Just sayin'.....


RK

Cody Covey
08-18-2011, 09:51 PM
I have seen no facts to support otherwise.
The association is not forth coming with this written published info for the plaintiff or the news agency, but some how you are in the know.


Just sayin'.....


RK

Because it is common ******* sense

Just sayin'.....

huntinman
08-18-2011, 10:05 PM
You aren't getting the point. There are already two flags on the property. What if everybody wanted their own flag? What if some people thought one wasn't enough? When does it stop? The reason they have these rules is so that property values don't go down because of all the crap that people tend to put on their lawns, etc.

The first dwelling I purchased was a condo and I am glad I did. It let me see the process especially after I joined the board to get some things done. Condo ownership is very good for a lot of reasons for a lot of people.

I got the point loud and clear. I also get the point that people like you hide behind some rule or regulation to diguise your disdain for this lady's love of her flag and the country it represents. The rest of the reasoning that you keep posting over and over is just so much BS. (IMHO)

Nate_C
08-18-2011, 10:33 PM
This is crazy. Is seems like some of you are desperate to find something to fight against. The complex already has 2 american flags up. This isn't about american flags. This is about the fact that if you rent a office you cannot go and dig up the front flower beds and put up a flag pole or anthing else. If they had put up a flag for there school or something else this wouldn't be a story.

BonMallari
08-19-2011, 05:00 AM
Because it is common f***** sense

Just sayin'.....


easy there Cody...no need to go this route;-)

BonMallari
08-19-2011, 05:25 AM
I got home tonight and re read this entire thread, and I guess what irks me most is that this issue should be CLEARLY something that I would think ALL of us would rally around...OK I will give in to the side that says she is in violation of the HOA or Condo assoc..I get that, point taken...and then there was someone that pointed out that many people improperly display of the flag...OK point taken

BUT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,this is the USA, the Flag of the USA is the FIRST if not the LAST bastion of our liberty and freedom...some have taken the word God out of the Pledge of Allegiance, we have taken prayer out of our schools...heck some of our kids are no longer required to say the pledge in schools, and the disrespect that is shown during the National Anthem at sporting events is somewhat appalling and an embarrassment..

many men and women have served proudly and even more have died so you and I can sit here and debate whether or not this lady can fly a flag...actually YOURs an MY FLAG...think about that for just one minute before you argue that this fight is about whether or not there are already flags flying in the complex..its much more than that...lets not let politically correct and HOA rules take precedent over FREEDOM and expression of our FREEDOM

I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/28Wheels/flag.gif


rant and lecture over...

road kill
08-19-2011, 06:23 AM
Because it is common ******* sense

Just sayin'.....
Oh, I see!:rolleyes:

I guess I have lost this argument!!!:cool:


RK

huntinman
08-19-2011, 08:28 AM
I got home tonight and re read this entire thread, and I guess what irks me most is that this issue should be CLEARLY something that I would think ALL of us would rally around...OK I will give in to the side that says she is in violation of the HOA or Condo assoc..I get that, point taken...and then there was someone that pointed out that many people improperly display of the flag...OK point taken

BUT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,this is the USA, the Flag of the USA is the FIRST if not the LAST bastion of our liberty and freedom...some have taken the word God out of the Pledge of Allegiance, we have taken prayer out of our schools...heck some of our kids are no longer required to say the pledge in schools, and the disrespect that is shown during the National Anthem at sporting events is somewhat appalling and an embarrassment..

many men and women have served proudly and even more have died so you and I can sit here and debate whether or not this lady can fly a flag...actually YOURs an MY FLAG...think about that for just one minute before you argue that this fight is about whether or not there are already flags flying in the complex..its much more than that...lets not let politically correct and HOA rules take precedent over FREEDOM and expression of our FREEDOM

I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/28Wheels/flag.gif


rant and lecture over...

That...says it all. Amen

road kill
08-19-2011, 09:02 AM
Could someone please show me a copy of the association rule she has violated?
I mean they won't show it to the lady and they won't show it to the news source, but many here just KNOW it's a rule.:rolleyes:

Until then.....it's speculation.



RK

LokiMeister
08-19-2011, 09:29 AM
Could someone please show me a copy of the association rule she has violated?
I mean they won't show it to the lady and they won't show it to the news source, but many here just KNOW it's a rule.:rolleyes:

Until then.....it's speculation.



RK

You, obviously, have never bought a condominium or you wouldn't make this comment.

LokiMeister
08-19-2011, 09:33 AM
I got home tonight and re read this entire thread, and I guess what irks me most is that this issue should be CLEARLY something that I would think ALL of us would rally around...OK I will give in to the side that says she is in violation of the HOA or Condo assoc..I get that, point taken...and then there was someone that pointed out that many people improperly display of the flag...OK point taken

BUT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,this is the USA, the Flag of the USA is the FIRST if not the LAST bastion of our liberty and freedom...some have taken the word God out of the Pledge of Allegiance, we have taken prayer out of our schools...heck some of our kids are no longer required to say the pledge in schools, and the disrespect that is shown during the National Anthem at sporting events is somewhat appalling and an embarrassment..

many men and women have served proudly and even more have died so you and I can sit here and debate whether or not this lady can fly a flag...actually YOURs an MY FLAG...think about that for just one minute before you argue that this fight is about whether or not there are already flags flying in the complex..its much more than that...lets not let politically correct and HOA rules take precedent over FREEDOM and expression of our FREEDOM

I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u18/28Wheels/flag.gif


rant and lecture over...

No, you don't get it. This isn't about whether the flag is bigger then all of us. This is only about condominium rules and what they are and someone not following them. Replace American Flag with tree and you see what I am talking about. She is changing the common areas of the property and you are not allowed to do that in a condo property, it's pretty standard.

huntinman
08-19-2011, 09:37 AM
No, you don't get it. This isn't about whether the flag is bigger then all of us. This is only about condominium rules and what they are and someone not following them. Replace American Flag with tree and you see what I am talking about. She is changing the common areas of the property and you are not allowed to do that in a condo property, it's pretty standard.

you have to be an accountant or an engineer... which is it?

road kill
08-19-2011, 09:38 AM
You, obviously, have never bought a condominium or you wouldn't make this comment.
You know everything, don't you?

I own 2..........

I guess I lost this argument as well???


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

RK

road kill
08-19-2011, 09:40 AM
you have to be an accountant or an engineer... which is it?

Or a DR. in PA????:D


RK

LokiMeister
08-19-2011, 09:42 AM
I got the point loud and clear. I also get the point that people like you hide behind some rule or regulation to diguise your disdain for this lady's love of her flag and the country it represents. The rest of the reasoning that you keep posting over and over is just so much BS. (IMHO)

Yep, you got me. I hate my country, hate my flag. :rolleyes:

No, you don't get it. If you got it you would realize that this woman has the freedom to buy the condo unit IF she agrees to the condo bylaws. She also has the freedom to NOT buy the condo unit. She also has the freedom to ask permission to put the flag up in the common areas and when she is denied to ask how do we get this changed or can I put another flag with the other two flags already on the property. If you reread my posts there is nothing there to tell you that I have a "disdain for this lady's love of her flag and the country it represents."

I fly my American Flag every July 4, Memorial Day and Flag Day. I do not fly it in the dark and when it is raining. I do not fly it every day but know how to respect it and how to fold it. I get your love of your country and flag Bill, but don't sit there and tell me that I have a disdain for a flag and a country.

LokiMeister
08-19-2011, 09:44 AM
you have to be an accountant or an engineer... which is it?

Neither. I originally went to college to be an engineer, but changed majors half way through. I now own a successful small business.

You have to be a...? (I could insult you, but "sometimes" I try to be above that).

road kill
08-19-2011, 09:45 AM
Yep, you got me. I hate my country, hate my flag. :rolleyes:

No, you don't get it. If you got it you would realize that this woman has the freedom to buy the condo unit IF she agrees to the condo bylaws. She also has the freedom to NOT buy the condo unit. She also has the freedom to ask permission to put the flag up in the common areas and when she is denied to ask how do we get this changed or can I put another flag with the other two flags already on the property. If you reread my posts there is nothing there to tell you that I have a "disdain for this lady's love of her flag and the country it represents."

I fly my American Flag every July 4, Memorial Day and Flag Day. I do not fly it in the dark and when it is raining. I do not fly it every day but know how to respect it and how to fold it. I get your love of your country and flag Bill, but don't sit there and tell me that I have a disdain for a flag and a country.

Show the association by-laws.

End of story.

You are guessing.........just like what I own and don't own.:rolleyes:


RK

LokiMeister
08-19-2011, 09:52 AM
Show the association by-laws.

End of story.

You are guessing.........just like what I own and don't own.:rolleyes:


RK

Of course the bylaws need to be shown, I have said that. What is your response then if the bylaws show she cannot alter the common areas of association?

BonMallari
08-19-2011, 10:04 AM
..OK I will give in to the side that says she is in violation of the HOA or Condo assoc..I get that, point taken..






No, you don't get it. This isn't about whether the flag is bigger then all of us. This is only about condominium rules and what they are and someone not following them. Replace American Flag with tree and you see what I am talking about. She is changing the common areas of the property and you are not allowed to do that in a condo property, it's pretty standard.


just in case you think I "don't get it";-)

LokiMeister
08-19-2011, 10:11 AM
just in case you think I "don't get it";-)

Your comments after that show that you clearly don't get it. If you "got it," you wouldn't say "lets not let politically correct and HOA rules take precedent over FREEDOM and expression of our FREEDOM."

The HOA rules are not preventing an American Flag being flown on the property since there are already two. The HOA rules are preventing the common areas from being altered.

huntinman
08-19-2011, 10:13 AM
Your comments after that show that you clearly don't get it. If you "got it," you wouldn't say "lets not let politically correct and HOA rules take precedent over FREEDOM and expression of our FREEDOM."

The HOA rules are not preventing an American Flag being flown on the property since there are already two. The HOA rules are preventing the common areas from being altered.

OK...if you insist...you get the last word...

LokiMeister
08-19-2011, 10:16 AM
Cool!!!!!!

BonMallari
08-19-2011, 10:17 AM
Your comments after that show that you clearly don't get it. If you "got it," you wouldn't say "lets not let politically correct and HOA rules take precedent over FREEDOM and expression of our FREEDOM."

The HOA rules are not preventing an American Flag being flown on the property since there are already two. The HOA rules are preventing the common areas from being altered.

No you win...I really do get it...honestly...I also stand by my comments afterwards...she is in violation of the HOA assoc rules...no need to ask again if I got it, read you loud and clear...much too early on west coast time

road kill
08-19-2011, 10:20 AM
Of course the bylaws need to be shown, I have said that. What is your response then if the bylaws show she cannot alter the common areas of association?



Yesterday, 03:17 PM
Please show me in the article the rule she violated.
You are assuming, without facts.
I am going by what's shown.

If she signed a contract up front and violated it......she is wrong.
If the rule became a rule after the fact it is bogus.


RK

Did you read any of this thread at all??

I have nothing else to offer on this, the last word is yours.:cool:



RK

caryalsobrook
08-19-2011, 10:38 AM
No, you don't get it. This isn't about whether the flag is bigger then all of us. This is only about condominium rules and what they are and someone not following them. Replace American Flag with tree and you see what I am talking about. She is changing the common areas of the property and you are not allowed to do that in a condo property, it's pretty standard.

Loki, you are wrong when you say Bon doesn't get it. He absolutely does. You are right when you say "IT IS ONLY ABOUT THE CONDOMINIUM RULES". Condominium rules are changed, deleted and created anytime the board so chooses AND THEY DON'T VIOLATE THE BYLAWS. Surely you know that if you serve on a condo board.

The board is responsible for the maintenance of the common areas. They can allow anything from individual owners putting up flagpoles for American falgs only with certain restrictions to actually placing poles and flags in the common area anywhere they choose and using the association dues to pay for them. Many times boards allow modification of the common grounds by an individual owner WITH BOARD PERMISSION. Bon and many who have posted here disagree with the board's view in this case. I have no idea if you agree with this particular board or are just argueing that the board has the authority to stop an individual owner from modifying the common ground. That really doesn't matter. You are right about the authority and Bon and others view the board's decision not to have or allow flags in front of each individual condo as wrong. That is why I said I would never own a condo again because the rules can be changed anytime by the board. Restrictive covenants are much harder to be changed so you have a fairly good chance of knowing that what you can do and what you cannot do will remain stable. In a condo assn. you have a much greater risk that these will be changed.

charly_t
08-19-2011, 12:07 PM
you have to be an accountant or an engineer... which is it?

LOL ! Yes sir.

Susie Royer
08-19-2011, 02:05 PM
You aren't getting the point. There are already two flags on the property. What if everybody wanted their own flag? What if some people thought one wasn't enough? When does it stop? The reason they have these rules is so that property values don't go down because of all the crap that people tend to put on their lawns, etc.

Since your into property values and rules it's a good thing you don't live here in Colorado Springs <VBG> We share our community w/Fort Carson, Peterson Air Force Base, Falcon Air Command, Air Force Academy and NORAD. Every day I go to work on a four lane highway and drive under a cross walk. Hanging on the cross walk are handmade signs (many on bed sheets) welcoming home loved ones (Dads, Daughters, Moms, Sons) who have risked their lives and who have fought overseas. Being a business owner I am fully aware of the codes and regulations for signage here in Colorado Springs and these certainly don't meet the code. However, our city government (Note: "GOVERNMENT") continues to "look the other way"!

If you consider the American flag crap in someones yard or consider it disgusting that someone displays to many American flags perhaps you should consider moving overseas!!!! OMG what is freakin wrong with our country???????????????

luvmylabs23139
08-19-2011, 03:01 PM
you have to be an accountant or an engineer... which is it?

Please don't lump all of accountants together!

huntinman
08-19-2011, 05:09 PM
Please don't lump all of accountants together!

I'm not... it's just a thought process kind of thing. Sort of like a dog gnawing on a bone and won't let go! Is it left brained??

charly_t
08-19-2011, 05:27 PM
I instantly remembered an engineer who came into the hardware store where I was working. He could not figure out how many feet of clothesline that he needed to go between two clothes line poles that were 50 feet apart. It got my attention at that time and has stayed with me all these years. Other engineers could figure in feet and inches but he couldn't. He was just one among many engineers who came into the store very often. Most could think outside of the box but he couldn't. I hope that I did not hurt anyone's feelings.

huntinman
08-19-2011, 05:33 PM
I instantly remembered an engineer who came into the hardware store where I was working. He could not figure out how many feet of clothesline that he needed to go between two clothes line poles that were 50 feet apart. It got my attention at that time and has stayed with me all these years. Other engineers could figure in feet and inches but he couldn't. He was just one among many engineers who came into the store very often. Most could think outside of the box but he couldn't. I hope that I did not hurt anyone's feelings.

Tend to over analyze things... analysis paralysis...

Marvin S
08-20-2011, 11:16 PM
Tend to over analyze things... analysis paralysis...

As professions are discussed of which we know not, U must remember there are just a couple of us on this forum. As in all professions the cream has a tendency to rise to the top, methinks you spent too much time dealing with the skim milk :-P :-P ;-) :).

huntinman
08-20-2011, 11:25 PM
As professions are discussed of which we know not, U must remember there are just a couple of us on this forum. As in all professions the cream has a tendency to rise to the top, methinks you spent too much time dealing with the skim milk :-P :-P ;-) :).

Ha!! good point...

LokiMeister
08-22-2011, 03:08 PM
Loki, you are wrong when you say Bon doesn't get it. He absolutely does. You are right when you say "IT IS ONLY ABOUT THE CONDOMINIUM RULES". Condominium rules are changed, deleted and created anytime the board so chooses AND THEY DON'T VIOLATE THE BYLAWS. Surely you know that if you serve on a condo board.

The board is responsible for the maintenance of the common areas. They can allow anything from individual owners putting up flagpoles for American falgs only with certain restrictions to actually placing poles and flags in the common area anywhere they choose and using the association dues to pay for them. Many times boards allow modification of the common grounds by an individual owner WITH BOARD PERMISSION. Bon and many who have posted here disagree with the board's view in this case. I have no idea if you agree with this particular board or are just argueing that the board has the authority to stop an individual owner from modifying the common ground. That really doesn't matter. You are right about the authority and Bon and others view the board's decision not to have or allow flags in front of each individual condo as wrong. That is why I said I would never own a condo again because the rules can be changed anytime by the board. Restrictive covenants are much harder to be changed so you have a fairly good chance of knowing that what you can do and what you cannot do will remain stable. In a condo assn. you have a much greater risk that these will be changed.

Ah, but you are forgetting some important points. The board is made up of the condo owners, they cannot make rule changes in a vacuum. Someone has to actually vote on the proposed changes and they have to answer to the other owners that will agree or disagree with them. The other thing is, this woman just put up the flag pole, at least that's the way the article reads. She didn't ask for permission, she didn't seek out that it was okay to alter the common areas, to make a rule change for her interest. If she would have done that, she might have had a better chance to get one put up.

BonMallari
08-22-2011, 03:16 PM
Ah, but you are forgetting some important points. The board is made up of the condo owners, they cannot make rule changes in a vacuum. Someone has to actually vote on the proposed changes and they have to answer to the other owners that will agree or disagree with them. The other thing is, this woman just put up the flag pole, at least that's the way the article reads. She didn't ask for permission, she didn't seek out that it was okay to alter the common areas, to make a rule change for her interest. If she would have done that, she might have had a better chance to get one put up.


Let me guess...you are the President/Board member of your HOA and have dealt with this type of situation before....

huntinman
08-22-2011, 03:17 PM
Let me guess...you are the President/Board member of your HOA and have dealt with this type of situation before....

If so, God help all who live there:rolleyes:

LokiMeister
08-22-2011, 03:46 PM
Let me guess...you are the President/Board member of your HOA and have dealt with this type of situation before....

I was about 10 years ago and yes we did. The main job of the board is to maintain the rules and property as best they can. The idea that the woman never received a copy of the bylaws and/or they are not published is laughable.

I am all for displaying of the American Flag and she might have gotten it done through the correct procedure, but to alter the common areas without HOA approval will never get it done. To say that the American Flag has more rights then the HOA will never stand in court. Let the woman spend her money on a lawyer, she won't win, can't win, the Constitution will not allow it.

Ken Bora
08-22-2011, 03:53 PM
Here is what I think/Feel..........
I think, it should be against Federal Law for such associations to prohibit in any way the flying of the Flag of the United States of America and the state flag of the state involved. Specific wording only these. Not flags of Barney the dinosaur or Elvis (yes I have seen both) all other banners and towels make all the rule you want but these two specific exemptions I feel must be allowed.
I think, Federal and State laws and guidelines of proper flag raising, positioning on flag pole, or on wall or side of building. And Guidelines for Flag Disposal and on when a Flag is worn out should be enforced, increased, upheld and publicized. There is a place I drive past that, on the flag pole in front of the home, has an Avon Products for sale flag above our U.S. flag. And that U.S. Flag is so tattered it is a faded rag.
I think, this optometrist woman is smart. Times are hard and customers few and far and she is using this issue. No, creating this issue to drum up business. She knows pubic opinion and knows the strong emotion of all of our wonderful citizens like Stan. Who, at times, can be blinded by his love of country and be played like a National Guitar. And she knows the chords to play for sure. Smart Girl!
That is what I think/feel....
Both of them are wrong! The condo ass. for being stupid and the flag girl for being smart. But none the less, both wrong.
 
 
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road kill
08-22-2011, 04:14 PM
Here is what I think/Feel..........
I think, it should be against Federal Law for such associations to prohibit in any way the flying of the Flag of the United States of America and the state flag of the state involved. Specific wording only these. Not flags of Barney the dinosaur or Elvis (yes I have seen both) all other banners and towels make all the rule you want but these two specific exemptions I feel must be allowed.
I think, Federal and State laws and guidelines of proper flag raising, positioning on flag pole, or on wall or side of building. And Guidelines for Flag Disposal and on when a Flag is worn out should be enforced, increased, upheld and publicized. There is a place I drive past that, on the flag pole in front of the home, has an Avon Products for sale flag above our U.S. flag. And that U.S. Flag is so tattered it is a faded rag.
I think, this optometrist woman is smart. Times are hard and customers few and far and she is using this issue. No, creating this issue to drum up business. She knows pubic opinion and knows the strong emotion of all of our wonderful citizens like Stan. Who, at times, can be blinded by his love of country and be played like a National Guitar. And she knows the chords to play for sure. Smart Girl!
That is what I think/feel....
Both of them are wrong! The condo ass. for being stupid and the flag girl for being smart. But none the less, both wrong.
 
 
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Thank you very much.......:cool:

RK

Ken Bora
08-22-2011, 05:46 PM
Thank you very much.......:cool:

RK

yup, put that in for you.
did you pick up the other?
hint... "The Mississippi Delta is shining like a _______ _____, ooh ooh ooh, I'm going to Grace Land".:cool:
 
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