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BonMallari
09-12-2011, 01:26 PM
this guy is a real jackhole...unbelieveable that a rag like the NYT allows this kind of crap to soil their paper...he even disabled the comment section on his blog....and you wonder where/why the conspiracy tin foil crowd gets their ideas and inspiration, its from filth like this


The Years of Shame

Is it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?

Actually, I donít think itís me, and itís not really that odd.

What happened after 9/11 ó and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not ó was deeply shameful. The atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons.

A lot of other people behaved badly. How many of our professional pundits ó people who should have understood very well what was happening ó took the easy way out, turning a blind eye to the corruption and lending their support to the hijacking of the atrocity?

The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.

Iím not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.

caryalsobrook
09-12-2011, 01:48 PM
this guy is a real jackhole...unbelieveable that a rag like the NYT allows this kind of crap to soil their paper...he even disabled the comment section on his blog....and you wonder where/why the conspiracy tin foil crowd gets their ideas and inspiration, its from filth like this

What would you expect from this liberal doofus who tailers his economic positions to cultivate a socialist dictatorial state? Anything to justify attacks on a free democracy.

Buzz
09-12-2011, 01:55 PM
That wasn't his 9-11 op-ed. It's a 9-11 post to his blog.

I think that anyone who denies that a bunch of sick bass terds used the event to drive wedges rather than unify the country is living in a state of denial.

BonMallari
09-12-2011, 02:58 PM
That wasn't his 9-11 op-ed. It's a 9-11 post to his blog.

I think that anyone who denies that a bunch of sick bass terds used the event to drive wedges rather than unify the country is living in a state of denial.

pure semantics Buzz..op ed vs blog.:rolleyes:

does that mean you agree with his opinion, including calling Kerik and Guiliani fake heroes...we'll leave GWB out of the mix because I think you have made yourself perfectly clear on him....

still trying to figure out the wedges you speak of....I have never seen a country come together after an atrocity like WE ALL DID after 9/11 (I wasnt around after 12/7/41) so who exactly did the unification and who did the wedge driving....

if you are talking about the wedge between Christians and Muslims, then you bet you rear end there is a wedge.....been there since the crusades...will I ever accept them,probably not, tolerate maybe....just the same way I see agnostics and atheists...they can worship or not, makes no difference to me, but dont ask me to welcome a mosque to my neighborhood

Buzz
09-12-2011, 03:26 PM
This about sums it up:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/about-that-paul-krugman-allegation-of-911-shame/2011/03/03/gIQAdwBMNK_blog.html


As for Krugman, more today:


More About the 9/11 Anniversary


It looks as if I should say a bit more about yesterdayís anniversary. So:

The fact is that the two years or so after 9/11 were a terrible time in America Ė a time of political exploitation and intimidation, culminating in the deliberate misleading of the nation into the invasion of Iraq. Itís probably worth pointing out that Iím not saying anything now that I wasnít saying in real time back then, when Bush had a sky-high approval rating and any criticism was denounced as treason. And thereís nothing Iíve done in my life of which Iím more proud.

It was a time when tough talk was confused with real heroism, when people who made speeches, then feathered their own political or financial nests, were exalted along with Ė and sometimes above Ė those who put their lives on the line, both on the evil day and after.

So it was a shameful episode in our nationís history Ė and itís one that I canít help thinking about whenever we talk about 9/11 itself.

Now, I should have said that the American people behaved remarkably well in the weeks and months after 9/11: There was very little panic, and much more tolerance than one might have feared. Muslims werenít lynched, and neither were dissenters, and that was something of which we can all be proud.

But the memory of how the atrocity was abused is and remains a painful one. And itís a story that I, at least, can neither forget nor forgive.

Gerry Clinchy
09-12-2011, 04:18 PM
Now, I should have said that the American people behaved remarkably well in the weeks and months after 9/11: There was very little panic, and much more tolerance than one might have feared. Muslims weren’t lynched, and neither were dissenters, and that was something of which we can all be proud.



How he could say that this kind of tolerance as exhibited by most Americans is less worthy of remembrance than whatever "abuse" of atrocity he perceives, is incredible to me.

Indeed, had the situation been reversed, it is easy to imagine that mad-hatter Muslim clerics would have whipped a Muslim population into doing the very things that Americans did NOT do.

It is imaginable that the hasty move into Iraq was fueled with fear that Saddam had actually nurtured. Saddam's position undoubtedly was to strike fear in his neighbors & anyone who might think of attacking him. I think Saddam would have taken a different route if he had anticipated that the US would actually act as we did. A lot of bloodshed would have been avoided, if the US had not been so "diplomatic", and told him straight out to shape up or his butt would get kicked. He might actually have paid attention. As it was, he figured that he could carry on his little game ad infinitum, but he failed to calculate the fear that resulted from 9/11.

Buzz
09-12-2011, 04:42 PM
As it was, he figured that he could carry on his little game ad infinitum, but he failed to calculate the fear that resulted from 9/11.

So, you're saying that the terrorists won...

Gerry Clinchy
09-12-2011, 05:19 PM
So, you're saying that the terrorists won...

If the terrorists wanted Saddam taken out, then you could say that they won on that point.

Saddam had tried to nurture fear of his capabilities himself. I believe, in hindsight, he wanted his ostensible enemies to believe he had WMDs, even though he didn't. Saddam's neighbors had reason not to like him very much; and to fear him as well. He obviously knew that; and knew that if they found out he was a paper tiger, he was toast. So he continued his bravado to keep his neighbors at bay.

If the terrorists believed that Americans would turn into a lynch mob, then they did not win on that point.

I do NOT think that the events of 9/11 were a "win" for anyone.

dixidawg
09-12-2011, 05:27 PM
That wasn't his 9-11 op-ed. It's a 9-11 post to his blog.

I think that anyone who denies that a bunch of sick bass terds used the event to drive wedges rather than unify the country is living in a state of denial.


While others believe that the wedge driving is being done by the current administration:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703700904575391553798363586.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/16/AR2011021602142.html

J Hoggatt
09-12-2011, 05:55 PM
To Paul Krugman:

http://youtu.be/8hGvQtumNAY?t=1m31s

Sleep well.........

Buzz
09-12-2011, 09:40 PM
If the terrorists wanted Saddam taken out, then you could say that they won on that point.



No, I'm saying that the "fear" that you referred to is a win for the terrorists. After-all, they are called terrorists for a reason.

Franco
09-12-2011, 10:00 PM
quote

As for Krugman, more today:


Quote:
More About the 9/11 Anniversary


It looks as if I should say a bit more about yesterdayís anniversary. So:

The fact is that the two years or so after 9/11 were a terrible time in America Ė a time of political exploitation and intimidation, culminating in the deliberate misleading of the nation into the invasion of Iraq. Itís probably worth pointing out that Iím not saying anything now that I wasnít saying in real time back then, when Bush had a sky-high approval rating and any criticism was denounced as treason. And thereís nothing Iíve done in my life of which Iím more proud.

quote

How I remember yappers like Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the rest of the radical right calling anyone that didn't support the invasion of Iraq, traitors! O'Reilly calling for a boycott of all things French. Looks to me like the the French were right about it not being a good idea. And, all the years Hannity justified the war by claiming that Iraq is the front on terror. Crazed, all of them!

Gerry Clinchy
09-12-2011, 10:06 PM
No, I'm saying that the "fear" that you referred to is a win for the terrorists. After-all, they are called terrorists for a reason.

Not sure what your point is, Buzz. Yes, the purpose of terrorism is to instill fear. And they succeeded in doing that. Brave people were in fear on 9/11. With good reason.

Did an element of that fear carry over into what was an ill-advised move on Saddam? Quite possible. There could be no question that Saddam was not above using terroristic methods if he could. If he would use chemical weapons within his own country, it is not unreasonable to think he would use them elsewhere; and any other methods that he could to further whatever his agenda might have been.

Americans are not used to living with such fear, but they can adapt. The Israelis have adapted. A Muslim can live in Israel with less fear than a Jew would live with in many Muslim countries. I believe that while some Israeli actions may have been questionable over the years, for the most part they have maintained their humanity in spite of the real fears that they have to deal with. No, I'm not Jewish :-)

caryalsobrook
09-13-2011, 06:15 AM
That wasn't his 9-11 op-ed. It's a 9-11 post to his blog.

I think that anyone who denies that a bunch of sick bass terds used the event to drive wedges rather than unify the country is living in a state of denial.
You just described Krugman to a tee.

cotts135
09-13-2011, 06:00 PM
Regrettably the US still lives in a state of fear. If you don't believe so then explain the exponential increase in surveillance in this country or how about the uproar when it was suggested that Khalid Sheik Mohammad be tried in a civilian court in lower Manhattan even when other countries who have been attacted by terrorists continue to try these criminals in their civilian courts Britain and Spain just to name a few.
Fear is paralyzing us and the continue erosion of our civil liberties in pursuit of the unachievable goal of total security is something that all of us should be concerned with.
At least on tonight's news Janet Napolitano is looking into ending the ridiculous pat downs of young children at our country's airports. It's a start

Gerry Clinchy
09-13-2011, 08:22 PM
I don't think we are "paralyzed by fear" at all. Actually, I think Joe Average isn't as fearful now as right after 9/11 ... that's why we complain about airport security, etc.

As for trying Khalid in Lower Manhattan, the symbolism for AQ could have been a reason for AQ to plan something awful for the trial. New Yorkers shouldn't have to be made a target for something like that. And, surely, security in NY would be more difficult than at Gitmo.

The fact that our culture would rather sacrifice everyone's civil liberties for the protection of the same liberties for a small ethnic group, is simply that ... our culture of non-discrimination.

Can you imagine if those responsible for this type of security did NOT do these things, and another plane were to be used as a terrorist weapon? Wouldn't you be just as angry?

huntinman
09-13-2011, 10:20 PM
Regrettably the US still lives in a state of fear. If you don't believe so then explain the exponential increase in surveillance in this country or how about the uproar when it was suggested that Khalid Sheik Mohammad be tried in a civilian court in lower Manhattan even when other countries who have been attacted by terrorists continue to try these criminals in their civilian courts Britain and Spain just to name a few.
Fear is paralyzing us and the continue erosion of our civil liberties in pursuit of the unachievable goal of total security is something that all of us should be concerned with.
At least on tonight's news Janet Napolitano is looking into ending the ridiculous pat downs of young children at our country's airports. It's a start

Average Americans are not afraid. Idiot politicians want to keep us afraid to keep us under their thumb. Easier to control that way. Most of the security BS going on in the airports and elsewhere is just for show and is more of a knee jerk reaction than pro-active. We are wasting billions of dollars searching little old ladies and kids while muhammed walks right on the plane. By the way... I have a step-son that works for TSA... he and I argue about this too... But he can't deny that what they do is mostly Politcally Correct BS.

cotts135
09-14-2011, 06:18 AM
Average Americans are not afraid. Idiot politicians want to keep us afraid to keep us under their thumb. Easier to control that way. Most of the security BS going on in the airports and elsewhere is just for show and is more of a knee jerk reaction than pro-active. We are wasting billions of dollars searching little old ladies and kids while muhammed walks right on the plane. By the way... I have a step-son that works for TSA... he and I argue about this too... But he can't deny that what they do is mostly Politcally Correct BS.
Your first two sentences I agree with 100%.
What happens though, if these guys have a successful attack and kill some Americans? The uproar would be deafening and fingers would be pointing in every direction trying to figure out who to blame.
I can't even imagine what proposals would be made in the interest of security. This is where the terrorists win. It would be far better to take an accurate risk assessment of the true dangers these dirtbags present and base a security policy on that. We have overreacted and now find ourselves on a slippery slope where every perceived threat posed by terrorists result in another loss of Freedoms and Liberties' ideals by the way that our founding Fathers thought important enough that they risked their own life's to champion.
Modern day America is now finding itself inching more and more to the old Soviet Union and East Germany policies of secrecy and survellaince. All brutal dictatorships and repressive governments use secrecy, fear and surveillance to maintain their power and control over their citizenry. We are not at that point yet, obviously, but it is important that we understand what freedom and liberty is truly about and how those two ideals made us the greatest country ever.