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View Full Version : Now that don't ask-dont' tell is over



BonMallari
09-20-2011, 03:55 PM
does it really matter...I never served in the military, but came from a military family..my dad was a decorated career Army officer, had two older brothers do their stints in the Army and Marines..we have a couple of nephews and a niece that are gay...I know the subject bothered my dad, but wondering if it matters to you ..doesnt matter if you did or didnt serve...just looking for opinions

FTR: it doesnt matter to me but I dont like the immediate rush of military coming out and getting civil unions and "coming out of the closet" or maybe the media giving it their attention

Jim Danis
09-20-2011, 04:05 PM
As someone who served in the Army and has many many friends who are active duty soldiers it matters. Let's just say that a lot of my buddies are pretty much completely intolerant to homosexuality. Reasons do not matter to them.

DU_quacker
09-20-2011, 04:12 PM
20 years in the Army. I don't care if someone is gay or not, but I don't want to see any public displays of affection, from straight or gay.

I don't believe in homosexuality.

It's not going to go over well in the combat arms.

huntinman
09-20-2011, 04:40 PM
does it really matter...I never served in the military, but came from a military family..my dad was a decorated career Army officer, had two older brothers do their stints in the Army and Marines..we have a couple of nephews and a niece that are gay...I know the subject bothered my dad, but wondering if it matters to you ..doesnt matter if you did or didnt serve...just looking for opinions

FTR: it doesnt matter to me but I dont like the immediate rush of military coming out and getting civil unions and "coming out of the closet" or maybe the media giving it their attention

I would be willing to bet that many of those we see on tv are "make believe" Bon... Probably never served a day. Could be actors. Do you trust the MSM??

Cody Covey
09-20-2011, 04:59 PM
20 years in the Army. I don't care if someone is gay or not, but I don't want to see any public displays of affection, from straight or gay.

I don't believe in homosexuality.

It's not going to go over well in the combat arms.

Never served but all I care about is readiness of troops. If it truly isn't going to affect them then I don't care one way or another. I also doubt we are getting the whole story from the media about how it will affect the troops actually out on the ground.

DU what is there not to believe in homosexuality....some people are gay...that is fact there is nothing to believe or not believe....

Raymond Little
09-20-2011, 05:00 PM
Obammer just commissioned a new combat brigade, gonna call them the
"Rump Rangers".;)

road kill
09-20-2011, 05:10 PM
A very sad day for the US Military and America.


RK

BonMallari
09-20-2011, 05:14 PM
I would be willing to bet that many of those we see on tv are "make believe" Bon... Probably never served a day. Could be actors. Do you trust the MSM??

Now that is exactly what I meant....I really dont give a rats behind if the two military personnel get their unions EXCEPT that in many cases they may be breaking military code i.e. officers with enlisted personnel...but its like the rainbow brigade wants to march out all these military gays out and parade them around...I dont need that, the military doesnt need that...the military is the penultimate team, breaking ranks and showing that you are sexually free is not part of the team concept..guess it bothers me more than I thought or maybe I am channeling my old man, glad he wasnt around to see this day,it would have broke his heart

Marvin S
09-20-2011, 05:35 PM
IMO - Disgustingly :(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

road kill
09-20-2011, 07:30 PM
A very sad day for the US Military and America.


RK

Just got back from dog training.
Ha d a great conversation with a former Marine.

Evidently I am not alone in this sentiment and feeling like PUKING!!!!!


RK

Ryan M
09-20-2011, 07:37 PM
Doesnt really bother me what people preference is... IMO people are born that way, theres not really a choice. Thinking of all the gay people I know, most of them you could tell very early in their life that they were gay. However... having served in the military, logistically I dont see how its appropriate. Sharing berthing and heads. There wasnt a whole lot of privacy on a ship to begin with. I just think DADT was a policy that worked and didnt need to be updated. I'd rather just be left in the dark about peoples sexual preferences. Just my opinion.

Cody Covey
09-20-2011, 07:55 PM
Just got back from dog training.
Ha d a great conversation with a former Marine.

Evidently I am not alone in this sentiment and feeling like PUKING!!!!!


RK

Hey RK would you care to ellaborate as to why? Not looking to start an argument at all just genuinely curious...

road kill
09-20-2011, 08:10 PM
Hey RK would you care to ellaborate as to why? Not looking to start an argument at all just genuinely curious...

You obviously never served.

The Military is not a social test tube for secular progressives.

Experiment with drugs and sex all you want to in college, the military is about discipline and respect and honor.

I highly doubt you understand me, it's OK, I was born this way!!!;-).


RK

finkomania
09-20-2011, 09:16 PM
I just retired in April with 20 years in the Army. I don't think there was anything wrong with don't ask don't tell. It worked. There have been gays in the military since the dawn of time in my opinion. I am gonna have to agree with the other vet who responded by saying that public displays of affection by gay military personel on post should not be allowed or at least kept in check. I also hope that this new policy will not attract people who have an agenda that is not in the best interest of national security and good order and discipline of our armed forces
. I hope that everything goes over as business as usual. I will tell you a big reason I left the Army at twenty was that I was so sick of quarterly sensitivity training that I like road kill wanted to puke. The Army changed and I wasn't willing to change with it. It is what it is.

Down East Labs 217
09-20-2011, 09:52 PM
I did 22 years in the Marine Corps. I personally would not want to use a community shower knowing the shower next to me had a gay guy that would be gazing. That would make my skin crawl.

Since females had to have their own barracks and males had to have their own barracks, are they going to build new barracks for the gay.

If they do than they will have to have two set of new barracks. One for male gays and one for female gays. The cost of this is unreal.

Or are they going to allow cohabitation in the barracks.

Richard

Down East Labs 217
09-20-2011, 09:54 PM
Saw the news tonight. They had what they said was a Marine marring his friend. The problem was, he was wearing an Army Officer's uniform. The media blew that one.

Richard

JDogger
09-21-2011, 12:05 AM
does it really matter...I never served in the military, but came from a military family..my dad was a decorated career Army officer, had two older brothers do their stints in the Army and Marines..we have a couple of nephews and a niece that are gay...I know the subject bothered my dad, but wondering if it matters to you ..doesnt matter if you did or didnt serve...just looking for opinions

FTR: it doesnt matter to me but I dont like the immediate rush of military coming out and getting civil unions and "coming out of the closet" or maybe the media giving it their attention

I'm surprised, yet not so, that you chose to broach this subject, Bon.
You work in an industry, (food service) where gender blur is rampant. I have also worked in the restaurant business, in various capacities. Gay and lesbian staff were the order of the day, and they were able to serve with few faults. Those that occurred were dealt with by management if needed. Considering that the majority of military service is in the support areas, and not close combat, I think this is a non-issue. If some consider being viewed in the shower areas as "creepy", It seems to me to be more their problem. I pee and change my clothes at HT's behind my truck doors, I don't look around to see who's watching, and are they checking out my "junk".

DADT Good ridence, JD

BonMallari
09-21-2011, 04:14 AM
I'm surprised, yet not so, that you chose to broach this subject, Bon.
You work in an industry, (food service) where gender blur is rampant. I have also worked in the restaurant business, in various capacities. Gay and lesbian staff were the order of the day, and they were able to serve with few faults. Those that occurred were dealt with by management if needed. Considering that the majority of military service is in the support areas, and not close combat, I think this is a non-issue. If some consider being viewed in the shower areas as "creepy", It seems to me to be more their problem. I pee and change my clothes at HT's behind my truck doors, I don't look around to see who's watching, and are they checking out my "junk".

DADT Good ridence, JD

waiting tables with my gay friends is a heck of a lot different than going to war with gay troops....my server friends dont have my life in their hands,we dont have to SSS in the same latrines...IMHO the military is a whole different animal....the UCMJ is a whole lot different than the bill of rights...the military is not a democracy...when you join them,you play by their rules...at least thats the way I was always told..when my dad gave orders we marched,when he said we were moving,my mom broke camp and moved us..it was not put up to a vote..ever watch the movie the Great Santini- that was our family

road kill
09-21-2011, 06:43 AM
I'm surprised, yet not so, that you chose to broach this subject, Bon.
You work in an industry, (food service) where gender blur is rampant. I have also worked in the restaurant business, in various capacities. Gay and lesbian staff were the order of the day, and they were able to serve with few faults. Those that occurred were dealt with by management if needed. Considering that the majority of military service is in the support areas, and not close combat, I think this is a non-issue. If some consider being viewed in the shower areas as "creepy", It seems to me to be more their problem. I pee and change my clothes at HT's behind my truck doors, I don't look around to see who's watching, and are they checking out my "junk".

DADT Good ridence, JD

Yep, you are spot on.

Serving on a ship on a 6 month tour or being in a combat zone and the entertainment industry are the same.
Impeccable logic...........


And people wonder why we are having problems in the USA????


RK

Jacob Hawkes
09-21-2011, 06:54 AM
You obviously never served.

The Military is not a social test tube for secular progressives.

Experiment with drugs and sex all you want to in college, the military is about discipline and respect and honor.

I highly doubt you understand me, it's OK, I was born this way!!!;-).


RK

I don't see how it changes anything. The people were either straight/gay/lesbian/bi to begin with. It didn't miraculously change their sexual preference(s). Speaking of drugs, how many people were on them during wars? I'm not knocking them for getting high as a kite after making it through a day of fighting, but I won't turn away from facts either. Yeah, I'm positive about the sex part not being diluted either. The military is about whatever you want it to be. It's no sure thing that they have any of the 3 things you mentioned. The simple fact is there is good & bad with it. To make it out like everything is all great in the military and it's nothing but honorable/noble people is a farce.

road kill
09-21-2011, 07:04 AM
I don't see how it changes anything. The people were either straight/gay/lesbian/bi to begin with. It didn't miraculously change their sexual preference(s). Speaking of drugs, how many people were on them during wars? (illicit drug use was & is illegal) I'm not knocking them for getting high as a kite after making it through a day of fighting, but I won't turn away from facts either. Yeah, I'm positive about the sex part not being diluted either. The military is about whatever you want it to be. It's no sure thing that they have any of the 3 things you mentioned. The simple fact is there is good & bad with it. To make it out like everything is all great in the military and it's nothing but honorable/noble people is a farce.

That is YOUR opinion, not MY experience!!

A far as serving with "gays."
I'm sure I did, not my business, irrelevant to the mission and not something we needed to know.
It has worked extremely well for over a century.

RK

huntinman
09-21-2011, 08:50 AM
Saw the news tonight. They had what they said was a Marine marring his friend. The problem was, he was wearing an Army Officer's uniform. The media blew that one.

Richard

Goes back to my post earlier when I said most of the ones on tv probably were not even real soldiers... just actors for the cameras... Good catch!

Jim Danis
09-21-2011, 09:08 AM
Obammer just commissioned a new combat brigade, gonna call them the
"Rump Rangers".;)

The Navy also commissioned a new Destroyer. The sailors affectionatley call themselves "Butt Pirates".

Jacob Hawkes
09-21-2011, 09:16 AM
That is YOUR opinion, not MY experience!!

A far as serving with "gays."
I'm sure I did, not my business, irrelevant to the mission and not something we needed to know.
It has worked extremely well for over a century.

RK

What opinion? :confused::confused:

road kill
09-21-2011, 09:24 AM
What opinion? :confused::confused:


The military is about whatever you want it to be. It's no sure thing that they have any of the 3 things you mentioned.

Don't you read your posts??

That is YOUR opinion, not MY experience.

RK

Jacob Hawkes
09-21-2011, 09:56 AM
Not an opinion. That's simple facts.

Jason Glavich
09-21-2011, 10:40 AM
Some people do not understand why it worked, and how it will now effect units and how people bond. Some people do not think their choice is right and it will forever change their unit's effectiveness. I personally do not care either way what someones sexual preference is either way, but to many this is a major issue and will change the way they see them forever.

RK, I met some great people during my time in the best Gun Club in the world, all of them even at their worst had great corp values.

Jacob, They may not always have all 3 things but they do have to courage to put it all on the line to fight this nations wars.

Raymond Little
09-21-2011, 11:13 AM
I don't see how it changes anything. The people were either straight/gay/lesbian/bi to begin with. It didn't miraculously change their sexual preference(s). Speaking of drugs, how many people were on them during wars? I'm not knocking them for getting high as a kite after making it through a day of fighting, but I won't turn away from facts either. Yeah, I'm positive about the sex part not being diluted either. The military is about whatever you want it to be. It's no sure thing that they have any of the 3 things you mentioned. The simple fact is there is good & bad with it. To make it out like everything is all great in the military and it's nothing but honorable/noble people is a farce.

What branch of military did you serve in to get your facts?

Nate_C
09-21-2011, 03:25 PM
This is exactly what they said about African Americans 60 years ago. I am sure it made some men sick to serve and live with African American soldiers. I am sure you will say that that is different but it isn't.

The armed services aren't a test tube but they shouldnít institutionalize something that flies in the face of all that America stands for. See in this country we judge people by the quality of their character not their religion, race or who they love. I am a very religious person and believe that homosexuality is a sin but I donít get to enforce that believe on others. Just as I donít want the government telling me how to live or raise my family.

road kill
09-21-2011, 03:35 PM
This is exactly what they said about African Americans 60 years ago. I am sure it made some men sick to serve and live with African American soldiers. I am sure you will say that that is different but it isn't.

The armed services aren't a test tube but they shouldnít institutionalize something that flies in the face of all that America stands for. See in this country we judge people by the quality of their character not their religion, race or who they love. I am a very religious person and believe that homosexuality is a sin but I donít get to enforce that believe on others. Just as I donít want the government telling me how to live or raise my family.

I served along side black men, in combat, how about you?

It is not the same, not at all.
But I'm not surprised someone would try to make it out to be the same.

So to you sexual orientation and the CHOICE to act on thata is the same as race??


WOW!!!!!:shock:


Just out of curiosity, what if you are wrong?
If I am wrong, "don't ask don't tell" harms noone.
If you are wrong.............


RK

Jacob Hawkes
09-21-2011, 03:36 PM
Jacob, They may not always have all 3 things but they do have to courage to put it all on the line to fight this nations wars.

I agree.


This is exactly what they said about African Americans 60 years ago. I am sure it made some men sick to serve and live with African American soldiers. I am sure you will say that that is different but it isn't.

The armed services aren't a test tube but they shouldnít institutionalize something that flies in the face of all that America stands for. See in this country we judge people by the quality of their character not their religion, race or who they love. I am a very religious person and believe that homosexuality is a sin but I donít get to enforce that believe on others. Just as I donít want the government telling me how to live or raise my family.

Agree to this as well.

road kill
09-21-2011, 03:37 PM
Some people do not understand why it worked, and how it will now effect units and how people bond. Some people do not think their choice is right and it will forever change their unit's effectiveness. I personally do not care either way what someones sexual preference is either way, but to many this is a major issue and will change the way they see them forever.

RK, I met some great people during my time in the best Gun Club in the world, all of them even at their worst had great corp values.

Jacob, They may not always have all 3 things but they do have to courage to put it all on the line to fight this nations wars.


Your correct, they may not "always" have all 3 things, but at least they do when it counts!!

Semper Fi Marine, thank God for you guys!!:cool:


RK

Terri
09-21-2011, 03:40 PM
I'm not and have not served my country, but me dad and both grandpas served. I always dreamed of marrying a pig farmer after my military police officer career, but neither dream came true.

Just a question for the guys who have been in the military or are still serving: Do you admit that gay people have been in the military from the beginning of time? Do you like the do not tell policy? If both of these two questions are answered with a yes, then what is going to happen if the gay men come out of the military closet? Do you think the gays will be free to jump on you without worry of punishment? What is the fear?
If you tell me there has never been gays in the military and that you do not support gays in the military I can understand you not wanting a policy that allows gays in the military, period. I believe my dad and grandpas did not believe that any gay man would survive the military. None of them are alive today, but even if they were I wonder if anyone could convince them to accept a gay man as fit for duty. They did not have sensitivity training back in the day.
I just do not understand what mind game you are playing with yourself by saying as long as they stay in the closet it is all good.

Now how do you feel about gay women - on a personal level and also serving in the military? I usually see that most men have no problem with the women and some like it a bit too much for my comfort level.

Just some things to think about.
Terri

road kill
09-21-2011, 03:47 PM
I'm not and have not served my country, but me dad and both grandpas served. I always dreamed of marrying a pig farmer after my military police officer career, but neither dream came true.

Just a question for the guys who have been in the military or are still serving: Do you admit that gay people have been in the military from the beginning of time? Do you like the do not tell policy? If both of these two questions are answered with a yes, then what is going to happen if the gay men come out of the military closet? Do you think the gays will be free to jump on you without worry of punishment? What is the fear?
If you tell me there has never been gays in the military and that you do not support gays in the military I can understand you not wanting a policy that allows gays in the military, period. I believe my dad and grandpas did not believe that any gay man would survive the military. None of them are alive today, but even if they were I wonder if anyone could convince them to accept a gay man as fit for duty. They did not have sensitivity training back in the day.
I just do not understand what mind game you are playing with yourself by saying as long as they stay in the closet it is all good.

Now how do you feel about gay women - on a personal level and also serving in the military? I usually see that most men have no problem with the women and some like it a bit too much for my comfort level.

Just some things to think about.
Terri
The military is not the same as some ones social circles.
It's a different animal all together.
I don't care what they do in private, just don't tell me I have to accept it!!

Just something to think about.


RK

huntinman
09-21-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm not and have not served my country, but me dad and both grandpas served. I always dreamed of marrying a pig farmer after my military police officer career, but neither dream came true.

Just a question for the guys who have been in the military or are still serving: Do you admit that gay people have been in the military from the beginning of time? Do you like the do not tell policy? If both of these two questions are answered with a yes, then what is going to happen if the gay men come out of the military closet? Do you think the gays will be free to jump on you without worry of punishment? What is the fear?
If you tell me there has never been gays in the military and that you do not support gays in the military I can understand you not wanting a policy that allows gays in the military, period. I believe my dad and grandpas did not believe that any gay man would survive the military. None of them are alive today, but even if they were I wonder if anyone could convince them to accept a gay man as fit for duty. They did not have sensitivity training back in the day.
I just do not understand what mind game you are playing with yourself by saying as long as they stay in the closet it is all good.

Now how do you feel about gay women - on a personal level and also serving in the military? I usually see that most men have no problem with the women and some like it a bit too much for my comfort level.

Just some things to think about.
Terri

I'll answer your question. I served in the AF in the early '80's. I knew gay people (men and women) who were on active duty back then. They did their job, and didn't bother anyone and no one bothered them. The people I knew never "came out" officially, but most knew. I could care less what their sexual preference is. I don't take my sexual preference to work and make it known to all I work with and force others to acknowledge that I have a preference one way or the other. I think they deserve the same right as anyone else as a citizen, but not as a "special class" of citizen.

That is my problem with the gay lobby... they are about forcing the rest of the world to accept their position (like it or not). They keep advancing their agenda one step at a time. They are already working on forcing the military to give benefits to the partners such as health care and base housing etc... it never stops...

Raymond Little
09-21-2011, 04:11 PM
I'm not and have not served my country, but me dad and both grandpas served. I always dreamed of marrying a pig farmer after my military police officer career, but neither dream came true.

Just a question for the guys who have been in the military or are still serving: Do you admit that gay people have been in the military from the beginning of time? Do you like the do not tell policy? If both of these two questions are answered with a yes, then what is going to happen if the gay men come out of the military closet? Do you think the gays will be free to jump on you without worry of punishment? What is the fear?
If you tell me there has never been gays in the military and that you do not support gays in the military I can understand you not wanting a policy that allows gays in the military, period. I believe my dad and grandpas did not believe that any gay man would survive the military. None of them are alive today, but even if they were I wonder if anyone could convince them to accept a gay man as fit for duty. They did not have sensitivity training back in the day.
I just do not understand what mind game you are playing with yourself by saying as long as they stay in the closet it is all good.

Now how do you feel about gay women - on a personal level and also serving in the military? I usually see that most men have no problem with the women and some like it a bit too much for my comfort level.

Just some things to think about.
Terri

That's it in a nutzsak Terri, What place does sensitivity training have in the military where it's main purpose is to break things and kill people???

huntinman
09-21-2011, 04:18 PM
That's it in a nutzsak Terri, What place does sensitivity training have in the military where it's main purpose is to break things and kill people???

BINGO !

caryalsobrook
09-21-2011, 04:38 PM
Two words used extensively on this thread are "accept' and "gay".

If you look up the word '"accept", you will see that the meaning of the word used in the context of the posts here is to "approve". Tollerence maybe but approval maybe not ever. Could the use of the word "accept" be used deliberately to subcontiously argue for approval?

The term "gay" actually is a state of the mind. I wonder what one would think if I said I was a gay heterosexual man?:rolleyes: It has always amused me that the term "gay" is supposed to refer to a homosexual man and the term "straight" was to refer to a heterosexual man. Would you think that one who is "straight" cannot be "gay"?

charly_t
09-21-2011, 05:34 PM
Two words used extensively on this thread are "accept' and "gay".

If you look up the word '"accept", you will see that the meaning of the word used in the context of the posts here is to "approve". Tollerence maybe but approval maybe not ever. Could the use of the word "accept" be used deliberately to subcontiously argue for approval?

The term "gay" actually is a state of the mind. I wonder what one would think if I said I was a gay heterosexual man?:rolleyes: It has always amused me that the term "gay" is supposed to refer to a homosexual man and the term "straight" was to refer to a heterosexual man. Would you think that one who is "straight" cannot be "gay"?


Yep, when I was growing up "gay" was not used in reference to homosexuals.
Trying to "sugar coat" ( no pun intended ) it does nothing to help their cause. They were "fairies" or "queers" back then........not that I think either of those terms fit either.

Cody Covey
09-21-2011, 05:38 PM
I'll answer your question. I served in the AF in the early '80's. I knew gay people (men and women) who were on active duty back then. They did their job, and didn't bother anyone and no one bothered them. The people I knew never "came out" officially, but most knew. I could care less what their sexual preference is. I don't take my sexual preference to work and make it known to all I work with and force others to acknowledge that I have a preference one way or the other. I think they deserve the same right as anyone else as a citizen, but not as a "special class" of citizen.

That is my problem with the gay lobby... they are about forcing the rest of the world to accept their position (like it or not). They keep advancing their agenda one step at a time. They are already working on forcing the military to give benefits to the partners such as health care and base housing etc... it never stops...Don't your wife and children get health care and base housing....if you don't want them to be a special class of citizen then don't you think...like you said in your post that they deserve the same rights? I just don't see the big deal...they have always been in the military what makes all you guys think it's going to be different now? It will still be against the rules for any show of affection on base. The only argument I have heard that has any real merit and makes me seriously wonder is about the separate barracks. How can they say men and women must sleep in separate barracks but gay men can sleep in the same barracks as other men.

road kill
09-21-2011, 05:39 PM
Yep, when I was growing up "gay" was not used in reference to homosexuals.
Trying to "sugar coat" ( no pun intended ) it does nothing to help their cause. They were "fairies" or "queers" back then........not that I think either of those terms fit either.
I went to HS with twin girls named Joy and Gay Irgang.
Both of them were the nicest people I have ever met.

Whenever I hear the term "Gay" in it's current context, I wonder why??

They are homosexuals by definition.
And there is little "gay" about them, by definition.


Oh well.......

RK

charly_t
09-21-2011, 05:42 PM
I'm not and have not served my country, but me dad and both grandpas served. I always dreamed of marrying a pig farmer after my military police officer career, but neither dream came true.

Just a question for the guys who have been in the military or are still serving: Do you admit that gay people have been in the military from the beginning of time? Do you like the do not tell policy? If both of these two questions are answered with a yes, then what is going to happen if the gay men come out of the military closet? Do you think the gays will be free to jump on you without worry of punishment? What is the fear?
If you tell me there has never been gays in the military and that you do not support gays in the military I can understand you not wanting a policy that allows gays in the military, period. I believe my dad and grandpas did not believe that any gay man would survive the military. None of them are alive today, but even if they were I wonder if anyone could convince them to accept a gay man as fit for duty. They did not have sensitivity training back in the day.
I just do not understand what mind game you are playing with yourself by saying as long as they stay in the closet it is all good.

Now how do you feel about gay women - on a personal level and also serving in the military? I usually see that most men have no problem with the women and some like it a bit too much for my comfort level.

Just some things to think about.
Terri

Terri, I don't think you and I will ever understand this. It's a male thing. Hubby used to come home "P Oed" because a male office worker in his dept. had touched him on the shoulder. He was sure the guy was coming onto him
and it affected my husband's work that day you bet. I can undrstand how it might be in the military under those same circumstances. It's just not the same with we women.

huntinman
09-21-2011, 05:54 PM
Don't your wife and children get health care and base housing....if you don't want them to be a special class of citizen then don't you think...like you said in your post that they deserve the same rights? I just don't see the big deal...they have always been in the military what makes all you guys think it's going to be different now? It will still be against the rules for any show of affection on base. The only argument I have heard that has any real merit and makes me seriously wonder is about the separate barracks. How can they say men and women must sleep in separate barracks but gay men can sleep in the same barracks as other men.

That's what I mean about it never ending. First they want to be acknowledged as being gay...ok. Now, you are talking about living quarters etc... definition of marriage... It's a whole new level to the discussion. But really it's the same discussion, that keeps chipping away...

My wife and kids do not get health care and base housing... I am not in the military anymore. Many moons ago.

Cody Covey
09-21-2011, 06:48 PM
That's what I mean about it never ending. First they want to be acknowledged as being gay...ok. Now, you are talking about living quarters etc... definition of marriage... It's a whole new level to the discussion. But really it's the same discussion, that keeps chipping away...

My wife and kids do not get health care and base housing... I am not in the military anymore. Many moons ago.

I know I am takling about when you were in as well as those in now. Their wife and children are offered housing on base. If you want true equality don't you think gays should have the same rights why shouldn't that actually BE the SAME rights?

BonMallari
09-21-2011, 06:57 PM
I know I am takling about when you were in as well as those in now. Their wife and children are offered housing on base. If you want true equality don't you think gays should have the same rights why shouldn't that actually BE the SAME rights?

there is a lot more at stake than housing....we're talking possible survivor benefits,pensions,base priviliges...which could all go out the window if they ever draft a definition of marriage act....military benefits are HUGE...it helped my family,even after my dad passed away..its actually helping to pay my mom's medications at the nursing home...

Cody Covey
09-21-2011, 07:08 PM
there is a lot more at stake than housing....we're talking possible survivor benefits,pensions,base priviliges...which could all go out the window if they ever draft a definition of marriage act....military benefits are HUGE...it helped my family,even after my dad passed away..its actually helping to pay my mom's medications at the nursing home...

So you believe homosexual's should have special rights? Either everyone should have the ability for their significant other to have housing health care and other benefits or no one should. Why in the world do you think homosexual's should have special rights?

road kill
09-21-2011, 07:22 PM
Maybe if some of you ever had to "saddle up," knowing full well that this day will likely be your last, you would see things a tad differently.
( I pray that never happens)

The military is not Fedex or Toys R Us or Sears.

It is a different animal with different rules for a reason.
It is NOT a democracy, it is NOT fair it is NOT a social test tube.

The good of the command or unit or troop comes ahead of the individuals personal issues.
The needs of the service come before the wants of the few.

When that breaks down, people die.

Not every service member faces combat, but you never know that for certain when you enter.

I must bow out of this now, because I have been through a couple things many of you would not beleive or understand.

I KNOW what I KNOW!

You FEEL what you FEEL!

Big difference.


PEACE!!!!:cool:


RK

BonMallari
09-21-2011, 08:02 PM
So you believe homosexual's should have special rights? Either everyone should have the ability for their significant other to have housing health care and other benefits or no one should. Why in the world do you think homosexual's should have special rights?

what rules applies in the military doesnt apply in the real world..my nephew and his partner have a civil union in Mass.(dont have a problem there)...but the military is not a democracy...you cant just leave and check out if you want..when you sign up you give up a LOT of rights and freedoms, and IMHO you give up the right to have a civil union with your lifestyle partner...you want to do that, get out of the military...after all you and I are paying for their salary...I am not a big fan of females in combat either,because of the brutalities of war..I read my dad's memoirs and the brutality of the enemy toward male combatants,could not imagine what they would have done to females...

Homosexuals dont deserve any special rights anymore than you and I deserve special rights...but the UCMJ is not the Bill of Rights..for the military to operate efficiently certain practices must be done, they may not seem "fair or right" but war isnt fair,either you kill the enemy or they kill you..no such thing as the Geneva convention in war

Cody Covey
09-21-2011, 09:28 PM
what rules applies in the military doesnt apply in the real world..my nephew and his partner have a civil union in Mass.(dont have a problem there)...but the military is not a democracy...you cant just leave and check out if you want..when you sign up you give up a LOT of rights and freedoms, and IMHO you give up the right to have a civil union with your lifestyle partner...you want to do that, get out of the military...after all you and I are paying for their salary...I am not a big fan of females in combat either,because of the brutalities of war..I read my dad's memoirs and the brutality of the enemy toward male combatants,could not imagine what they would have done to females...

Homosexuals dont deserve any special rights anymore than you and I deserve special rights...but the UCMJ is not the Bill of Rights..for the military to operate efficiently certain practices must be done, they may not seem "fair or right" but war isnt fair,either you kill the enemy or they kill you..no such thing as the Geneva convention in warI am not arguing for or against DADT here. You and RK are right that the military is not a democracy and should be run with only the efficiency and safety of the troops in mind. I have said that earlier in this post already. The situation was reviewed and deemed to not be a factor in safety or efficiency. With that said you are saying that the ability to have health care is going to affect the safety of the troops? I am asking you how so. If i were in the military how would I be less safe because a homosexual has the same rights as me. If you are able to explain that to me than maybe I'll understand. As it sits now you are using "safety" as a cop out.

For the record...I personally think that the troops are if anything less safe without DADT in place. I just htink that since it's not there anymore than homosexuals should be given the same rights to the benefits as heterosexuals are afforded. This is absolutely no different than separate but equal. Do you believe black wives don't deserve the same benefits as whites? I would argue that at the time that was a big issue the safety of troops were in fact GREATLY put at risk because of the general sentiment of whites towards blacks at that time.

BonMallari
09-21-2011, 10:12 PM
I am not arguing for or against DADT here. You and RK are right that the military is not a democracy and should be run with only the efficiency and safety of the troops in mind. I have said that earlier in this post already. The situation was reviewed and deemed to not be a factor in safety or efficiency. With that said you are saying that the ability to have health care is going to affect the safety of the troops? I am asking you how so. If i were in the military how would I be less safe because a homosexual has the same rights as me. If you are able to explain that to me than maybe I'll understand. As it sits now you are using "safety" as a cop out.

For the record...I personally think that the troops are if anything less safe without DADT in place. I just htink that since it's not there anymore than homosexuals should be given the same rights to the benefits as heterosexuals are afforded. This is absolutely no different than separate but equal. Do you believe black wives don't deserve the same benefits as whites? I would argue that at the time that was a big issue the safety of troops were in fact GREATLY put at risk because of the general sentiment of whites towards blacks at that time.

now dont go putting words in my mouth..or reading something else in my posts...never said anything about their safety....but what is does do is strike at the heart of the military way of doing things, the mere fact that it makes some personnel unsure and uncomfortable makes for disharmony among the ranks...I am basing my opinion on my personal experience on how I believe the military runs, not on being in the military(I was not), maybe I am part dinosaur in that thinking...one of the reasons I started this thread..the arguments you present for equality are all valid and just..for everyday life and the public, all I'm saying is that those same rules dont apply in the military (at least in the military I know)

Terri
09-21-2011, 10:19 PM
I think what I was trying to say is this: my dad and grandpas would not have homosexuals in the military period. I get this, straight up no homosexuals. They did not do sensitively training back then so they would have never agreed to serving with a homosexual in the closet or out of the closet. Did they serve with homosexuals most likely, but they would never admit it to you or themselves.

What I hear here is that you guys will accept homosexuals in the military. You will let them die for our freedom, but you do not want to let them provide for their loved one, just as you are providing benefits to your loved ones. I do not buy the argument that you are keeping your wives and girlfriends a secret.

I have no problem keeping them out, but if you let them in treat them fairly. Blood is blood, we all bleed red. If they are willing to spill blood and you are willing to allow it then they have a right to benefits. That is just the right thing to do.




Terri

BonMallari
09-21-2011, 10:38 PM
I think what I was trying to say is this: my dad and grandpas would not have homosexuals in the military period. I get this, straight up no homosexuals. They did not do sensitively training back then so they would have never agreed to serving with a homosexual in the closet or out of the closet. Did they serve with homosexuals most likely, but they would never admit it to you or themselves.

What I hear here is that you guys will accept homosexuals in the military. You will let them die for our freedom, but you do not want to let them provide for their loved one, just as you are providing benefits to your loved ones. I do not buy the argument that you are keeping your wives and girlfriends a secret.

I have no problem keeping them out, but if you let them in treat them fairly. Blood is blood, we all bleed red. If they are willing to spill blood and you are willing to allow it then they have a right to benefits. That is just the right thing to do.




Terri

Terri you cant have it both ways in the military, not for keeping them out, but IMHO DADT was a compromise...I'm not naiive enough to think that my dad didnt serve side by side with some homosexuals, of course he did...but in the real world do same sex couple get benefits that are afforded to traditional couples , some states yes, some no...well in the military if you give them the freedom to have civil unions then you give them benefits they may not necessarily have in public life, is that fair..

there is one other angle that hasnt been brought up at all in this thread...and that is the moral side...but that is a whole other thread;-)

Cody Covey
09-22-2011, 12:12 AM
now dont go putting words in my mouth..or reading something else in my posts...never said anything about their safety....but what is does do is strike at the heart of the military way of doing things, the mere fact that it makes some personnel unsure and uncomfortable makes for disharmony among the ranks...I am basing my opinion on my personal experience on how I believe the military runs, not on being in the military(I was not), maybe I am part dinosaur in that thinking...one of the reasons I started this thread..the arguments you present for equality are all valid and just..for everyday life and the public, all I'm saying is that those same rules dont apply in the military (at least in the military I know)

I think you are describing two separate issues one of which I agree with you on and one we either misunderstand each other or I disagree. I agree with you that without DADT there WILL BE disharmony in the ranks. I think DADT should have been standard policy for all...not just homosexuals...but mostly just to shut up the call for ending it because of discrimination not because I disagree with the policy, because quite frankly the policy worked.

The part where we differ is the part about rights. DADT is gone, no more. The disharmony you describe is because of the sexual orientation NOT because of the benefits that should be given to the loved ones of members serving. If we are now allowing open sexuality in the military why in the world would we not then go ahead and give the exact same rights as others in the military.

On a slightly off topic note...how do we handle the marriage of some states that allow gay marriage. Does that marriage have to be recognized by other states and more importantly how does the federal government view it. Do the feds not care and as long as you are married you get those rights?

Cody Covey
09-22-2011, 12:15 AM
Maybe if some of you ever had to "saddle up," knowing full well that this day will likely be your last, you would see things a tad differently.
( I pray that never happens)

The military is not Fedex or Toys R Us or Sears.

It is a different animal with different rules for a reason.
It is NOT a democracy, it is NOT fair it is NOT a social test tube.

The good of the command or unit or troop comes ahead of the individuals personal issues.
The needs of the service come before the wants of the few.

When that breaks down, people die.

Not every service member faces combat, but you never know that for certain when you enter.

I must bow out of this now, because I have been through a couple things many of you would not beleive or understand.

I KNOW what I KNOW!

You FEEL what you FEEL!

Big difference.


PEACE!!!!:cool:


RK
I truly thank you for your service but quite frankly NOTHING you could've gone through makes your loved ones any better than anyone else's....

BonMallari
09-22-2011, 12:42 AM
I think you are describing two separate issues one of which I agree with you on and one we either misunderstand each other or I disagree. I agree with you that without DADT there WILL BE disharmony in the ranks. I think DADT should have been standard policy for all...not just homosexuals...but mostly just to shut up the call for ending it because of discrimination not because I disagree with the policy, because quite frankly the policy worked.

The part where we differ is the part about rights. DADT is gone, no more. The disharmony you describe is because of the sexual orientation NOT because of the benefits that should be given to the loved ones of members serving. If we are now allowing open sexuality in the military why in the world would we not then go ahead and give the exact same rights as others in the military.

On a slightly off topic note...how do we handle the marriage of some states that allow gay marriage. Does that marriage have to be recognized by other states and more importantly how does the federal government view it. Do the feds not care and as long as you are married you get those rights?

looks like we misunderstood each other...my fault too

on the off topic I can only speak from what I know...my nephew's civil union in Mass is not recognized in other states, nor is one of my co workers who got a civil union in California

JDogger
09-22-2011, 01:26 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/us/marine-recruiters-visit-gay-center-in-oklahoma.html

Eh? For what it's worth. JD

Cody Covey
09-22-2011, 01:37 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/us/marine-recruiters-visit-gay-center-in-oklahoma.html

Eh? For what it's worth. JD

PSSSHHH! The dude on the left is definitely Vin Diesel :)

cotts135
09-22-2011, 06:59 AM
Hypothetical question................. Two guys both Army Infantry soldiers, one is completely incompetent can't tell the difference between the butt end of a rifle and the barrel. This guy is straight. The other guy is as sharp as they come, knows his job in and out and his field performance is a 10. This guy is gay.

You have to get rid of one, which guy goes?

Jim Danis
09-22-2011, 08:59 AM
Real world answer;

During DADT the gay soldier would be discharged. The half assed soldier would receive training, more training and more training and eventually if he did not come around would also be discharged for the good of the Army. The Army has what is called a Quality Managment Program. If you do not meet standards and cannot make promotion goals then you are discharged.

Spouses and dependents of active duty military are not offered housing benefits. Base housing MAY be available for married military members. The housing is given to the active duty person not his/her spouse or children. It is so that service member can provide for their family. IF housing is available then they are able to take advantage of it. Depending upon rank you may not have housing available to you, whether you are married or not. Single soldiers above a certain rank are not afforded on base housing they are told to move off base and secure their own housing. As long as same sex marriage is not recognized universally across this country that Single/homosexual service member will/should not be given the possibility of on base housing. As far as health benefits are concerned same as above. As long as same sex marriage is not recognized universally across the country then that service member is single and the partner is not eligiable for health benefits.

This may not make sense to some but this is a real world example. When I was in the Army my job entailed working very closely with my team members in tight confines and often isolated. Members of my team are good friends to this day and I've been out of the Army for 20 years now. None of them are homosexual by the way. However, if any of them had been and came out of the closet the disgust the rest of us would have for that person would completely degrade the ability of the rest of us to do our mission. Now expand that across the rest of the military. May seem extremely irrational but that is the way it is. If one of my team members were actually homosexual but never came out, even though we might have had a suspicion he was, as long as he did his job all would be fine. May not make sense but that's life. By the way I was assigned to an all male combat arms unit and we didn't have a single woman on our post. That was fine by me. Very, very few women could handle our mission anyways. It would be a distraction and also degrade the ability of us to perform our mission. Same as having openly serving homosexuals in our unit. We did have an instance of two men being caught together. They were prosecuted for Sodomy under UCMJ and discharged with in a couple of months. As it should have been!

Jason Glavich
09-22-2011, 09:01 AM
Hypothetical question................. Two guys both Army Infantry soldiers, one is completely incompetent can't tell the difference between the butt end of a rifle and the barrel. This guy is straight. The other guy is as sharp as they come, knows his job in and out and his field performance is a 10. This guy is gay.

You have to get rid of one, which guy goes?

There are way to many variables in that "hypothetical situation". But Failure to Adjust covers both if during DADT.

I do not care who loves who. I hope I make that clear up front.

But the issue isn't with me. Many, a majority most likely of the "rough and tough" military do not accept Gays. They have there reasons, not that I agree but you will not change their mind.

With that being said, say the newly OOTC military guy is in charge many of his men may not respect him anymore, not that this is right but it will cloud their judgement. This may effect their attitiude,duties,etc.

Or let's say the newly OOTC is a junior military guy, well now the rest of his troops do not trust him to watch their backs. Now they may know that because he/she is gay does not change thier ability to do their job, but once again clouds their thinking, maybe they wont watch his/her back as closely because they think it is an abomination.

This is the world we live in. People often do not see the giant elephant in the room with them, but when it is pointed out they hate that big smelly elephant. The way people are raised plays into this alot. To some people it is cut and dry, they accept or they do not. Others could really care less about the whole situation.

I am not saying DADT was right but it worked. I served with people who were abiding by DADT. Most people did not know but some did.

I joined December 19 2001, I was 17 years old. When I went to bootcamp, I was no longer the white kid who was 17 I was a Recruit. I served until May 2010 and was a SSgt in the USMC. To see the dynamics of a unit you have to live it. To see how an organization functions during war, doing patrols, standing guard, searching homes, or doing convoy security, you have to live it. Most politicians do not understand that the slightest hiccup in trust,comraderie, can cause a loss of life or several. I depended on all my Marines to keep me safe while I was sleeping just like they depended on me while they were sleeping. We all functioned as 1.

Although I may not have a problem with it, if my guys do we are no longer a smooth running machine. Even 1 bad apple can ruin the pie, and in this case that means lives.

No one needs or cares for the one who yells "Hey Look at Me"! Now you have to treat me different, no you will be treated the same as you were before. if your single you live in the barracks, if your married you live in a house on base or otherwise. Just remember you get what you ask, you are now allowed in the military, that does not mean all will be accepting.

"I say let them get married they can be miserable like the rest of us."( Just a joke I heard once)

Ok done with my Rant.

cotts135
09-22-2011, 11:58 AM
There are way to many variables in that "hypothetical situation". But Failure to Adjust covers both if during DADT.

I do not care who loves who. I hope I make that clear up front.

But the issue isn't with me. Many, a majority most likely of the "rough and tough" military do not accept Gays. They have there reasons, not that I agree but you will not change their mind.

With that being said, say the newly OOTC military guy is in charge many of his men may not respect him anymore, not that this is right but it will cloud their judgement. This may effect their attitiude,duties,etc.

Or let's say the newly OOTC is a junior military guy, well now the rest of his troops do not trust him to watch their backs. Now they may know that because he/she is gay does not change thier ability to do their job, but once again clouds their thinking, maybe they wont watch his/her back as closely because they think it is an abomination.

This is the world we live in. People often do not see the giant elephant in the room with them, but when it is pointed out they hate that big smelly elephant. The way people are raised plays into this alot. To some people it is cut and dry, they accept or they do not. Others could really care less about the whole situation.

I am not saying DADT was right but it worked. I served with people who were abiding by DADT. Most people did not know but some did.

I joined December 19 2001, I was 17 years old. When I went to bootcamp, I was no longer the white kid who was 17 I was a Recruit. I served until May 2010 and was a SSgt in the USMC. To see the dynamics of a unit you have to live it. To see how an organization functions during war, doing patrols, standing guard, searching homes, or doing convoy security, you have to live it. Most politicians do not understand that the slightest hiccup in trust,comraderie, can cause a loss of life or several. I depended on all my Marines to keep me safe while I was sleeping just like they depended on me while they were sleeping. We all functioned as 1.

Although I may not have a problem with it, if my guys do we are no longer a smooth running machine. Even 1 bad apple can ruin the pie, and in this case that means lives.

No one needs or cares for the one who yells "Hey Look at Me"! Now you have to treat me different, no you will be treated the same as you were before. if your single you live in the barracks, if your married you live in a house on base or otherwise. Just remember you get what you ask, you are now allowed in the military, that does not mean all will be accepting.

"I say let them get married they can be miserable like the rest of us."( Just a joke I heard once)

Ok done with my Rant.

Well said. Thanks

Terri
09-22-2011, 03:05 PM
I'm really just trying to understand what do you see as the problem having homosexuals serve openly in the military?

From what I have read from other post: Some of you have a problem with the benefits. Some are worried about the gross out factor. Some worry about the trust issue. Are there any other issues?

All of you admit there are homosexuals in the military now and in the past. You have all been comfortable with the do not ask do not tell. Which shows me: You can all work and live with homosexuals because you have been doing it all along. I see the only real victim of coming out of the closet to be the homosexual, but most of you tried to make yourself the victim.

To address the issues:
I'm sure he did not join the military for the benefits. Did you join for the benefits? I know this is a government funded program, but you take on a lot of risk for such a small benefit package. I'm sure this would be low on the list of reasons to join.

As for the gross out factor, I get you are grossed out. I'm sure there are many things that gross you out, but you are trained to put those issues aside and do your job. Remember you serve and protect all Americans, even the ones that do not believe the same as you do. You even defend the rights of people who disagree with having a military or protecting this sovereign nation. That has to gross you out more on a professional level than what two adults do behind closed doors.

If he comes out I do not see how he will stop doing his job to protect you. You admit he has been doing it all along and he has known he was homosexual, only you have been in the dark. If he comes out he is the one who will not have the back up of his unit when the sh!t hits the fan. This is the truth. He will die and this is what will destroy the unity of the troops. You would have failed your duty to another soldier and that is a very destructive force. I understand this fear. Here I can see you as a victim, but of your own making.

One final note: the military homosexual is being played as a pawn for the gay agenda groups because they do not care for him. The pawn is the lowest level piece on the board and his life means nothing in the big scheme of things. He better stay in that closet because if he comes out the house really does fall on him.

Terri

Raymond Little
09-22-2011, 03:40 PM
I'm really just trying to understand what do you see as the problem having homosexuals serve openly in the military?

From what I have read from other post: Some of you have a problem with the benefits. Some are worried about the gross out factor. Some worry about the trust issue. Are there any other issues?

All of you admit there are homosexuals in the military now and in the past. You have all been comfortable with the do not ask do not tell. Which shows me: You can all work and live with homosexuals because you have been doing it all along. I see the only real victim of coming out of the closet to be the homosexual, but most of you tried to make yourself the victim.

To address the issues:
I'm sure he did not join the military for the benefits. Did you join for the benefits? I know this is a government funded program, but you take on a lot of risk for such a small benefit package. I'm sure this would be low on the list of reasons to join.

As for the gross out factor, I get you are grossed out. I'm sure there are many things that gross you out, but you are trained to put those issues aside and do your job. Remember you serve and protect all Americans, even the ones that do not believe the same as you do. You even defend the rights of people who disagree with having a military or protecting this sovereign nation. That has to gross you out more on a professional level than what two adults do behind closed doors.

If he comes out I do not see how he will stop doing his job to protect you. You admit he has been doing it all along and he has known he was homosexual, only you have been in the dark. If he comes out he is the one who will not have the back up of his unit when the sh!t hits the fan. This is the truth. He will die and this is what will destroy the unity of the troops. You would have failed your duty to another soldier and that is a very destructive force. I understand this fear. Here I can see you as a victim, but of your own making.

One final note: the military homosexual is being played as a pawn for the gay agenda groups because they do not care for him. The pawn is the lowest level piece on the board and his life means nothing in the big scheme of things. He better stay in that closet because if he comes out the house really does fall on him.

Terri
What took you so long to come to that conclusion, you are correct the Homo Agenda.

Jason Glavich
09-22-2011, 03:59 PM
The issue isn't with anyone who is homosexual, it is with those who are not. Even if I am accepting, others have been raised to believe differently. They do not accept their lifestyle nor will they ever. They do not trust someone who lives that way, they do not trust them with their life. This is the mentality. And you cannot make someone be friends with someone else. it also comes down to the fact that you have been lying to them before this.

It is also the in your face nature of it, it has already been going on. It was quiet and kept under wraps, was it right not my place to say right or wrong just that it worked. Now it will be the point of putting self before service, the hey look at me!!!! Look at me!! Look at me!! You must accept me for who I am or face penatlies.

I'm married to a woman, but I do not run around telling everyone I am married, or on the news, or heck I do not even wear a ring. why because my personal life is just that, not for anyone else to give a flying rats &^% about.

Do what you want when you want on your own time and no one will stop you.

The truth is a vast majority of soldiers who are homosexual will still not come out of the closet. Does anyone think that this policy was really the only thing holding them back? No not even close. Plenty of people came out despite the rules, sometimes as a way to get discharged. Cannot wait for those lawsuits to correct service papers, but what about those discharged for saying it and really werent? Just to get out of the military. Will it play into promotions? Do you have to promote so many homosexuals to keep it equal? That would be the only fair way really, but then again how do you collect that data, is it public or can you check the box on the form but never have to say it out loud?It is still a stigma in America to be Gay, DADT was not the only place people kept it quiet, nor will it be the last.

The Pawns will be used, they will be the ones feeling the pain. The can of worms has been opened.

If you think this is ok, that is ok with me. I am ok with it as well.
But I think that druggies should also be allowed to serve, they cannot help they are addicted.
Everyone who was turned down for service because of tattoos should be allowed in, even if the tattoos are on the face, or racist or gang affiliated.
No age limit either that would be wrong as well. If your 80 lets go, we will make room.
the list of people who should be allowed could go on and on and on.
Also I would have liked to grow a beard while I was in, so i need that to be allowed as well.

Do not make this the only exception! Lets make it equal for all then!

Please note there is some sarcasm in this post in case anyone misses it.

BonMallari
09-22-2011, 04:20 PM
Jason ; you bring up a great point about opening a can of worms, and Terri you are also correct about the gay agenda...
but picture this scenario; next step is that they(gay/lesbian)will want their own platoon/brigade /division/regiment, and then ultimately their own commanding officers..what will you do then ?

just like many other things politics and politically correct will do more harm to the military..when legislators tell military men HOW and WHEN to fight and alter the rules of engagement they severely handcuff the professional soldier

caryalsobrook
09-22-2011, 04:29 PM
Jason ; you bring up a great point about opening a can of worms, and Terri you are also correct about the gay agenda...
but picture this scenario; next step is that they(gay/lesbian)will want their own platoon/brigade /division/regiment, and then ultimately their own commanding officers..what will you do then ?

just like many other things politics and politically correct will do more harm to the military..when legislators tell military men HOW and WHEN to fight and alter the rules of engagement they severely handcuff the professional soldier
you think that might hold true for the economy too Bon?

charly_t
09-22-2011, 06:19 PM
Complicated issue for sure. Sex thoughts ( no matter who ) distracts men and we sure don't need minds to wonder during battles. If the guy keeps his
mouth shut it helps. Read between my lines, please do.

It's best if we don't have women fighting alongside men.....men tend to try to protect the ladies no matter what and that is not good in battle. Unit as a whole is the first priority not a few ladies.

Terri
09-22-2011, 09:02 PM
What took you so long to come to that conclusion, you are correct the Homo Agenda.

I'm sure there is a homo agenda, but what I'm not sure is if all homosexuals in the military buy into that agenda. Could it be they just love their country and want to serve? Does the gay soldier not deserve just as must respect for his service?

Terri

Terri
09-22-2011, 09:53 PM
The issue isn't with anyone who is homosexual, it is with those who are not. Even if I am accepting, others have been raised to believe differently. They do not accept their lifestyle nor will they ever. They do not trust someone who lives that way, they do not trust them with their life. This is the mentality. And you cannot make someone be friends with someone else. it also comes down to the fact that you have been lying to them before this.

It is also the in your face nature of it, it has already been going on. It was quiet and kept under wraps, was it right not my place to say right or wrong just that it worked. Now it will be the point of putting self before service, the hey look at me!!!! Look at me!! Look at me!! You must accept me for who I am or face penatlies.

I'm married to a woman, but I do not run around telling everyone I am married, or on the news, or heck I do not even wear a ring. why because my personal life is just that, not for anyone else to give a flying rats &^% about.

Do what you want when you want on your own time and no one will stop you.

The truth is a vast majority of soldiers who are homosexual will still not come out of the closet. Does anyone think that this policy was really the only thing holding them back? No not even close. Plenty of people came out despite the rules, sometimes as a way to get discharged. Cannot wait for those lawsuits to correct service papers, but what about those discharged for saying it and really werent? Just to get out of the military. Will it play into promotions? Do you have to promote so many homosexuals to keep it equal? That would be the only fair way really, but then again how do you collect that data, is it public or can you check the box on the form but never have to say it out loud?It is still a stigma in America to be Gay, DADT was not the only place people kept it quiet, nor will it be the last.

The Pawns will be used, they will be the ones feeling the pain. The can of worms has been opened.

If you think this is ok, that is ok with me. I am ok with it as well.
But I think that druggies should also be allowed to serve, they cannot help they are addicted.
Everyone who was turned down for service because of tattoos should be allowed in, even if the tattoos are on the face, or racist or gang affiliated.
No age limit either that would be wrong as well. If your 80 lets go, we will make room.
the list of people who should be allowed could go on and on and on.
Also I would have liked to grow a beard while I was in, so i need that to be allowed as well.

Do not make this the only exception! Lets make it equal for all then!

Please note there is some sarcasm in this post in case anyone misses it.

So the issue is not with the homosexual, but those that are not. The military has admitted homosexuals into the service. You are totally fine with in as long as they keep this information private. You are basically admitting you like gays in the closet, but not out of the closet. This reminds me of people who say my best friend from high school is black, but he is different than all these N!@s who are always in prison. Crazy talk.
I did not allow homosexuals into the military and if it was not allowed I could accept that fact, but they are there because the military opened their door to them. Many years ago my daughter had a boy in her class who wore make up to school. One of the teachers would tease him daily and causing the kids in the class to join in the teasing. My daughter came home and told me it was causing her distress to go to that class. She thought the boy odd, but she did not see a need to tease him. I called the principal and asked him the school policy on boys wearing make up to school. He told me there was no rule against it. So I told him about the teacher who was teasing the boy daily and the kids were joining in the teasing. I also told him if there was a rule against boys wearing make up I would be for sending the boy to the office and then home until he washed his face. Since it was not against the rules the teacher needs to be educated about the school's policy. That teacher was not asked back the next year. The can of worms was open the day you accepted don't ask don't tell. Now some want to act like this is all new and foreign. The gay guy has been there all along, but you needed some one else to point that fact out to you. I see him and he is odd to me, but I do not need to jump on the wagon and run him over.
Terri

Terri
09-22-2011, 10:22 PM
Complicated issue for sure. Sex thoughts ( no matter who ) distracts men and we sure don't need minds to wonder during battles. If the guy keeps his
mouth shut it helps. Read between my lines, please do.

It's best if we don't have women fighting alongside men.....men tend to try to protect the ladies no matter what and that is not good in battle. Unit as a whole is the first priority not a few ladies.

Really! Sex has been part of war and battles for centuries. I have read many accounts of sex on the battle fields, both heterosexual and homosexual. The Greeks were sex addicts. I'm also aware of sex taking place in whore houses not far from the battle field. Back when I was little I remember wanting my mom to adopt a bi -racial child from Vietnam. Women have been fighting and dieing along side men for as long as war has existed. There are many great women who risked their lives along with their entire family in order to fight evil. I know Dr. Laura's aunt lost her life fighting the Nazis in Italy. This is her Italian aunt, who was a Christian. Dr. Laura's dad was Jewish from America and her mom was a Christian from Italy. Her parents meet in Italy when he was serving in the military. What about all the nurses who have served in battle zones. I can go on and on about women and war.
I would lump any man who is distracted by a women with a group known to cover their women from head to toe. All women should pray behind men so as not to cause a man's mind to wonder up her robe, but to allow him to stay focused on Allah. I do not want some little boy in the military because I have seen how they run when a real man comes marching in to town.

Terri

charly_t
09-22-2011, 11:23 PM
I am aware of the history........but that does not make it a good practice. Discipline is needed for a good fighting force. Note the words "fighting force"
as in battle ( and hand to hand combat ). Sure women can and do fill other jobs but I am speaking battle not desk jobs, nurses spies etc. And you know women do not mind well, vbeg.

Clay Rogers
09-23-2011, 07:51 AM
Really! Sex has been part of war and battles for centuries. I have read many accounts of sex on the battle fields, both heterosexual and homosexual. The Greeks were sex addicts. I'm also aware of sex taking place in whore houses not far from the battle field. Back when I was little I remember wanting my mom to adopt a bi -racial child from Vietnam. Women have been fighting and dieing along side men for as long as war has existed. There are many great women who risked their lives along with their entire family in order to fight evil. I know Dr. Laura's aunt lost her life fighting the Nazis in Italy. This is her Italian aunt, who was a Christian. Dr. Laura's dad was Jewish from America and her mom was a Christian from Italy. Her parents meet in Italy when he was serving in the military. What about all the nurses who have served in battle zones. I can go on and on about women and war.
I would lump any man who is distracted by a women with a group known to cover their women from head to toe. All women should pray behind men so as not to cause a man's mind to wonder up her robe, but to allow him to stay focused on Allah. I do not want some little boy in the military because I have seen how they run when a real man comes marching in to town.

Terri


You are totally and completely wrong in your last paragraph. The reason men are distracted in combat when women are around is because they would focus too much attention on the women not getting hurt or killed. Watching your buddy get shot up or blown up is hard enough for an 18-20 year old kid, but throw in the fact that it is a woman and its a whole new deal. It has nothing to do with wanting women to be submissive. I can tell by the way you talk, you haven't served before, and that's ok, but your on the outside looking in on a situation that you know nothing about. People that haven't served can't imagine the unit or team cohesion that exists between men that have trained together, lived together, hung out off duty together and faced combat together, that have bleed and cried over things you can't imagine. Even with the media coverage today, it's not the same as being there. Like someone else said, there's a bond there like no other between men that have served in combat, more than the bonds of most families.

As far as gays in the military, I am ok with that. If they can meet the standard, perform their job without fail and have their team members back when the shit hits the fan, then HOOAH! And I believe 95% of them can do that without fail. 95% of them will probably continue to go about their business like always, no public show of effections, no flamboyant attire and no drama period. It's the other 5% that worry me. The 5% that will be put there by the Rainbow Coaliation to hurt the military with their stupid agenda, they are the one's that worry me.

Jason Glavich
09-23-2011, 07:59 AM
So the issue is not with the homosexual, but those that are not. The military has admitted homosexuals into the service. You are totally fine with in as long as they keep this information private. You are basically admitting you like gays in the closet, but not out of the closet. This reminds me of people who say my best friend from high school is black, but he is different than all these N!@s who are always in prison. Crazy talk.
I did not allow homosexuals into the military and if it was not allowed I could accept that fact, but they are there because the military opened their door to them. Many years ago my daughter had a boy in her class who wore make up to school. One of the teachers would tease him daily and causing the kids in the class to join in the teasing. My daughter came home and told me it was causing her distress to go to that class. She thought the boy odd, but she did not see a need to tease him. I called the principal and asked him the school policy on boys wearing make up to school. He told me there was no rule against it. So I told him about the teacher who was teasing the boy daily and the kids were joining in the teasing. I also told him if there was a rule against boys wearing make up I would be for sending the boy to the office and then home until he washed his face. Since it was not against the rules the teacher needs to be educated about the school's policy. That teacher was not asked back the next year. The can of worms was open the day you accepted don't ask don't tell. Now some want to act like this is all new and foreign. The gay guy has been there all along, but you needed some one else to point that fact out to you. I see him and he is odd to me, but I do not need to jump on the wagon and run him over.
Terri


First, Just because I said I do not care doesn't matter I am not the majority. I did not say I like them in the closet, I am saying I do not run around telling everyone that I am straight! Also do you think that this will make everyone come out of the closet? No, for most of them that is not the reason they are in it.

Second, Since you brought it up. The can of worms was not opened when DADT was inacted. Did you know that since it was inacted other people have been barred from entering as well. Too many kids,tattoos,drugs, GED(with few exception), color blind, lack of depth perception(some of these just limit jobs as well), Too short, too fat,flat feet,diabetes,high blood pressure.

My last point then I am done with this thread. It has always been service before self. Now it is self before service, read Major Choat's article in the washington post and count the number of times he uses the words "I","me","my" in his article(over 35 times). There is a reason that in USMC boot camp you cannot use any of these words, you put the needs of the service before yourself. This is something that no one outside of that band of brothers would understand. You put everyone of your mens best interest before your own. God,Country,Corp! There is no self in there. The military has never been about the individuals, nor should it be.

huntinman
09-23-2011, 10:34 AM
First, Just because I said I do not care doesn't matter I am not the majority. I did not say I like them in the closet, I am saying I do not run around telling everyone that I am straight! Also do you think that this will make everyone come out of the closet? No, for most of them that is not the reason they are in it.

Second, Since you brought it up. The can of worms was not opened when DADT was inacted. Did you know that since it was inacted other people have been barred from entering as well. Too many kids,tattoos,drugs, GED(with few exception), color blind, lack of depth perception(some of these just limit jobs as well), Too short, too fat,flat feet,diabetes,high blood pressure.

My last point then I am done with this thread. It has always been service before self. Now it is self before service, read Major Choat's article in the washington post and count the number of times he uses the words "I","me","my" in his article(over 35 times). There is a reason that in USMC boot camp you cannot use any of these words, you put the needs of the service before yourself. This is something that no one outside of that band of brothers would understand. You put everyone of your mens best interest before your own. God,Country,Corp! There is no self in there. The military has never been about the individuals, nor should it be.

Amen .

finkomania
09-23-2011, 02:00 PM
I am gonna add one more issue to this to stir the pot a bit. There is one huge differance about the military than there is in the civilian sector. You cant quit. I would not like having a homosexual as a supervisor period. With the policy that is currently in affect a military member is told, not asked to obey the policy. Is it fair to force people who are against homosexuality to obey this new policy no questions asked. Glad I'm done with it.

road kill
09-23-2011, 02:45 PM
I am gonna add one more issue to this to stir the pot a bit. There is one huge differance about the military than there is in the civilian sector. You cant quit. I would not like having a homosexual as a supervisor period. With the policy that is currently in affect a military member is told, not asked to obey the policy. Is it fair to force people who are against homosexuality to obey this new policy no questions asked. Glad I'm done with it.

Isn't it wonderful that we have all these experts on how the military works and why??

Even though they have never served in combat or any other capacity??

There are many ways to serve, maybe the military is not for everybody???


Just sayin'......


RK

finkomania
09-23-2011, 03:26 PM
I agree and I do not begrudge gay folkes. I really don't. I just don't think its in their best interest to be completely open about their sexuality while serving. Regardless of the regulations that are in place their is still the human factor to contend with. If I were gay which im not lol, and planning on making any type of career out of it, I still would not let every Tom Dick and Harry know about it. But here is a tid bid of useless information that I came across. Baron Von Stuben is the father of the blue book. He was a professional Prussion officer. He was hired by George Washington to bring order and discipline to the continental army after Valley Forge. He is largely credited for reorganizing, training, and restoring moral to a force that had been soundly defeated in almost every battle by the British. Baron Von Stuben was kicked out of the Prussion Army for being gay.

charly_t
09-23-2011, 03:37 PM
Isn't it wonderful that we have all these experts on how the military works and why??

Even though they have never served in combat or any other capacity??

There are many ways to serve, maybe the military is not for everybody???


Just sayin'......


RK

Sorry, RK. I just have trouble keeping my thoughts to myself. Just what I think I remember from the Uncles' stories of WW2. And of course what the Marine grandson tells us. I have no first hand knowledge.

road kill
09-23-2011, 03:51 PM
Sorry, RK. I just have trouble keeping my thoughts to myself. Just what I think I remember from the Uncles' stories of WW2. And of course what the Marine grandson tells us. I have no first hand knowledge.
It's not personal.
It's just that the US military is not a democracy.
You have NO rights once you cross that line.

Sensitivity training??

Hey, ask any body who went thru bootcamp how sensitive the DI's are.:rolleyes:
They are lovely people.....ain't that right all of you S***BIRDS????:cool:


It's not the same, and for good reason.........your given an order....OBEY!!!!

RK

Jacob Hawkes
09-23-2011, 04:43 PM
It's a good thing the Marine who recently won The Medal Of Honor said, "Frick this." (Not his exact quote.) & took things into his own hands. You're not suppose to be a brainless robot.

road kill
09-23-2011, 04:46 PM
It's a good thing the Marine who recently won The Medal Of Honor said, "Frick this." (Not his exact quote.) & took things into his own hands. You're not suppose to be a brainless robot.
What, did you see that on TV?

Thanks for proving my point.

What branch did you serve in again?

RK

charly_t
09-23-2011, 04:48 PM
It's not personal.
It's just that the US military is not a democracy.
You have NO rights once you cross that line.

Sensitivity training??

Hey, ask any body who went thru bootcamp how sensitive the DI's are.:rolleyes:
They are lovely people.....ain't that right all of you S***BIRDS????:cool:


It's not the same, and for good reason.........your given an order....OBEY!!!!

RK

Yes, the Marine grandson has filled us in on some things. ;-)

The order given with expected immediate response was my father and he was not a military man. So I do understand a little about discipline. The USA's children need more discipline training ( now ). Bring back spankings !!!!!!

You are correct I have not served so some things I don't know. The one Uncle was a tail gunner, shot down in Germany during WW2. For a good while he was a POW. He did not talk about some things but others he shared with us. He did expect his three sons to obey instantly...........and they turned out to be great people.

Jacob Hawkes
09-23-2011, 04:59 PM
What, did you see that on TV?

Thanks for proving my point.

What branch did you serve in again?

RK

It was on 60 minutes. There's a reason why numerous Army officers lost their jobs because of their actions (Or lack there of.) during that skirmish.

It's no secret.

road kill
09-23-2011, 05:01 PM
Yes, the Marine grandson has filled us in on some things. ;-)

The order given with expected immediate response was my father and he was not a military man. So I do understand a little about discipline. The USA's children need more discipline training ( now ). Bring back spankings !!!!!!

You are correct I have not served so some things I don't know. The one Uncle was a tail gunner, shot down in Germany during WW2. For a good while he was a POW. He did not talk about some things but others he shared with us. He did expect his three sons to obey instantly...........and they turned out to be great people.

A lot of folks today don't like that discipline, respect and honor thing.
And that starts at the very top.

Your a good one charly t, I always read your words!


RK

charly_t
09-23-2011, 05:20 PM
A lot of folks today don't like that discipline, respect and honor thing.
And that starts at the very top.

Your a good one charly t, I always read your words!


RK

Thank you. I hope that life has taught me and others some things. The sob sisters who have deprived parents and schools of being able to teach children good discipline are partly at fault. Some grandparents are at fault ;-)

road kill
09-23-2011, 05:34 PM
It was on 60 minutes. There's a reason why numerous Army officers lost their jobs because of their actions (Or lack there of.) during that skirmish.

It's no secret.
I see, 60 Minutes, without question YOU are the consumate expert on the military.
Impeccable credentials!

What branch did you serve in again?
How many men under your command?
How many sorties have you been on?

Oh, wait, you watched 60 Minutes.

RK

Clay Rogers
09-23-2011, 05:59 PM
It's a good thing the Marine who recently won The Medal Of Honor said, "Frick this." (Not his exact quote.) & took things into his own hands. You're not suppose to be a brainless robot.

No, not a brainless robot, but you do have to rely on your training, which is what he did. And when he was doing it, he wasn't thinking about an award, he was thinking about his friends, his brothers that were dying on that battlefield.

Clay Rogers
09-23-2011, 06:04 PM
It was on 60 minutes. There's a reason why numerous Army officers lost their jobs because of their actions (Or lack there of.) during that skirmish.

It's no secret.


Just read the story on 60minutes.com. Tragic. 2 army officers with reprimands for that cluster.:confused:

Jacob Hawkes
09-23-2011, 06:10 PM
No, not a brainless robot, but you do have to rely on your training, which is what he did. And when he was doing it, he wasn't thinking about an award, he was thinking about his friends, his brothers that were dying on that battlefield.

Bingo. Nail on the head.


Just read the story on 60minutes.com. Tragic. 2 army officers with reprimands for that cluster.:confused:

I heard career ending.

starjack
09-23-2011, 06:41 PM
It was on 60 minutes. There's a reason why numerous Army officers lost their jobs because of their actions (Or lack there of.) during that skirmish.

It's no secret.

Now that clears everything up. it was asked what branch did you serve???

huntinman
09-23-2011, 07:45 PM
Now that clears everything up. it was asked what branch did you serve???

Self serve...

Terri
09-23-2011, 08:19 PM
I am aware of the history........but that does not make it a good practice. Discipline is needed for a good fighting force. Note the words "fighting force"
as in battle ( and hand to hand combat ). Sure women can and do fill other jobs but I am speaking battle not desk jobs, nurses spies etc. And you know women do not mind well, vbeg.

Women have been doing more than just support roles in the military. I do not limit women in the military to just the U.S.A. Other countries have women on the front lines. Canada for one has had women in Afghanistan. Believe it or not a women led an infantry company in a combat zone. Russia used women snipers against Germany. For a little U.S. history Cmdr. Iskra (Female) was command of the U.S.S. Opportune in 1990. In Iraqi U.S. women have been disarming landmines and flying air missions. Even Turkey has female pilots that have flown in war zones. Many of the French resistance where female.

Modern war involves more than hand to hand combat, but that does not mean you are not in a combat zone. I'm sure my grandfather who was on a Navy ship in the Pacific during WWII was in a war zone. Look for more females in the military. The military has to have so many people to function and 50% of science and engineering graduates are female.

Terri

Terri
09-23-2011, 09:03 PM
You are totally and completely wrong in your last paragraph. The reason men are distracted in combat when women are around is because they would focus too much attention on the women not getting hurt or killed. Watching your buddy get shot up or blown up is hard enough for an 18-20 year old kid, but throw in the fact that it is a woman and its a whole new deal. It has nothing to do with wanting women to be submissive. I can tell by the way you talk, you haven't served before, and that's ok, but your on the outside looking in on a situation that you know nothing about. People that haven't served can't imagine the unit or team cohesion that exists between men that have trained together, lived together, hung out off duty together and faced combat together, that have bleed and cried over things you can't imagine. Even with the media coverage today, it's not the same as being there. Like someone else said, there's a bond there like no other between men that have served in combat, more than the bonds of most families.

As far as gays in the military, I am ok with that. If they can meet the standard, perform their job without fail and have their team members back when the shit hits the fan, then HOOAH! And I believe 95% of them can do that without fail. 95% of them will probably continue to go about their business like always, no public show of effections, no flamboyant attire and no drama period. It's the other 5% that worry me. The 5% that will be put there by the Rainbow Coaliation to hurt the military with their stupid agenda, they are the one's that worry me.

I did not say any thing about being submissive, I was directing my comment to the word focus as a weak reason to keep women out of combat.
Muslims are not keeping women submissive at prayer, but stating that men are weak and can't focus on God if a woman is between him and God. I'm not disputing the fact than some young guys would want to protect women, I totally understand. I just find lack of focus as something to be found in a little boy, not a trained man. Like you would expect a puppy to lack focus on a hunt, but a seasoned, well trained dog would not be sniffing the ground, but walk with his head held high. I had a problem with the other posters reasoning.

I have never been in the military that is correct. I planned on going in the military as an officer, but I meet my husband in college and that took my life in a different direction. I stated that in my very first post. Both my grandpas (one Navy and one Army) served in WWII. My dad was a Marine before the Korean War. Spent his time in the Pacific islands and other Asian countries. He was very much for women in the military and women breaking into the construction trade. He died 6 years ago, but he was very proud that my mom was a steel worker, before the plant closed down. He also got a chuckle that the defense department gave my mom a top security clearance, when he was not cleared to be on the armed guard for Kennedy. He was denied because he had one Italian grandfather (making my dad only 1/4, he really did not mind since he did not vote for the man), where as my mom is 1/2 Italian. Twenty plus years can heal some wounds is what he would stay, that is how many years between my dad's service in the Marines and my mom's civil defense employment.

Terri

charly_t
09-23-2011, 09:15 PM
Women have been doing more than just support roles in the military. I do not limit women in the military to just the U.S.A. Other countries have women on the front lines. Canada for one has had women in Afghanistan. Believe it or not a women led an infantry company in a combat zone. Russia used women snipers against Germany. For a little U.S. history Cmdr. Iskra (Female) was command of the U.S.S. Opportune in 1990. In Iraqi U.S. women have been disarming landmines and flying air missions. Even Turkey has female pilots that have flown in war zones. Many of the French resistance where female.

Modern war involves more than hand to hand combat, but that does not mean you are not in a combat zone. I'm sure my grandfather who was on a Navy ship in the Pacific during WWII was in a war zone. Look for more females in the military. The military has to have so many people to function and 50% of science and engineering graduates are female.

Terri

I bow to your superior intelligence. :-)

Jacob Hawkes
09-23-2011, 09:55 PM
Self serve...

Ignorance @ it's best.

starjack
09-24-2011, 07:35 AM
Ignorance @ it's best.

Still waiting:rolleyes:

Clay Rogers
09-24-2011, 10:30 PM
Now that clears everything up. it was asked what branch did you serve???


I don't think he has to have served to have an opinion. I don't think he deserves to be thought less of for not serving. I am proud of my service to this great country, would do it again if I could. I stand at attention every time the Pledge is said and every time they play the National Anthem. I bleed Red, White and Blue. But I don't want my son to enlist. Won't fight him if he wants to, but won't push him either. The military has changed to much I think.

Jacob Hawkes
09-24-2011, 11:14 PM
I don't think he has to have served to have an opinion. I don't think he deserves to be thought less of for not serving. I am proud of my service to this great country, would do it again if I could. I stand at attention every time the Pledge is said and every time they play the National Anthem. I bleed Red, White and Blue. But I don't want my son to enlist. Won't fight him if he wants to, but won't push him either. The military has changed to much I think.

So true. You don't have to be in a branch to have an opinion. That said, I most certainly did. I don't think it changes anything. The fact is certain people chose to be dbags.

starjack
09-25-2011, 11:04 AM
So true. You don't have to be in a branch to have an opinion. That said, I most certainly did. I don't think it changes anything. The fact is certain people chose to be dbags.

This dbag did serve from 79- 82 army I will listen to someone who served or is serving before someone who has not. STILL WAITING

Canis
09-25-2011, 07:49 PM
I was able to tolerate don't ask dont tell. I did not like it but it was a good compromise!

I personally do not think Homosexuals sould be in the Military at all. FOR MANY MANY reasons:

One example:

Imagine, being pinned down behind enemy lines, hunkered down in some kind of fox hole/ditch/or bunker, with enemy troops all around you, closing in on your position, with only hours to live.

Now imagine you are in that fox hole with a Homosexual soldier. NOT GOOD!

I know If I was stuck in that situation with a 18-25 year old, inshape, heterosexual female soldier, I know what I would want to do???? I would say something like. Hey girl we are going to be dead in a couple of hours don't you think we should go out with a "Bang"

As a Heterosexual male soldier, in the situation describe above, with a Homosexual male soldier, you would have to watch your front and rear simultaneously.

As a heterosexual male soldier, in the situation described above, with a female homosexual soldier, then one last romp in the hay would not even be an option. You would literally die with your gun still fully loaded. That would be a shame!

I hope this illistrates my main point, Sex should not even be in the minds of soldiers when on duty. They have more important things to worry about than being distracted by various random sexual thoughts.

Yes it bothers me that gays are in our military. What bothers me even more is same sex couples adpoting childern.

Imagine your 14 years old and just learned abou the "birds and bees." Then while eating a piece of link sausage, at breakfast with your two Daddys, you stare at them across the table wondering which one of them is the pitcher and which one is the catcher. That will create some mental issues that Dr. Phil would have a hard time fix'n.

I do beleive that Most Gays are born that way, they cant help it, however they must realize they are Abnormal, Homosexually goes against the laws of Nature it is not Biologically correct, there brain chemistry is all screwed up. If everyone was truely gay the human race would stop existing in one single generation.

I do not discriminate against Gays, because they can't help it. But because of there mental abnormanalitites(and thats truely, what it is) they sould not be in the military or be able to adopt children. Let'm get married, let'm hold hands on the beach etc...etc....

but BOB and ROB should not be changing the diaper of a little boy.:confused:

Cody Covey
09-25-2011, 08:39 PM
I was able to tolerate don't ask dont tell. I did not like it but it was a good compromise!

I personally do not think Homosexuals sould be in the Military at all. FOR MANY MANY reasons:

One example:

Imagine, being pinned down behind enemy lines, hunkered down in some kind of fox hole/ditch/or bunker, with enemy troops all around you, closing in on your position, with only hours to live.

Now imagine you are in that fox hole with a Homosexual soldier. NOT GOOD!

I know If I was stuck in that situation with a 18-25 year old, inshape, heterosexual female soldier, I know what I would want to do???? I would say something like. Hey girl we are going to be dead in a couple of hours don't you think we should go out with a "Bang"

As a Heterosexual male soldier, in the situation describe above, with a Homosexual male soldier, you would have to watch your front and rear simultaneously.

As a heterosexual male soldier, in the situation described above, with a female homosexual soldier, then one last romp in the hay would not even be an option. You would literally die with your gun still fully loaded. That would be a shame!

I hope this illistrates my main point, Sex should not even be in the minds of soldiers when on duty. They have more important things to worry about than being distracted by various random sexual thoughts.

Yes it bothers me that gays are in our military. What bothers me even more is same sex couples adpoting childern.

Imagine your 14 years old and just learned abou the "birds and bees." Then while eating a piece of link sausage, at breakfast with your two Daddys, you stare at them across the table wondering which one of them is the pitcher and which one is the catcher. That will create some mental issues that Dr. Phil would have a hard time fix'n.

I do beleive that Most Gays are born that way, they cant help it, however they must realize they are Abnormal, Homosexually goes against the laws of Nature it is not Biologically correct, there brain chemistry is all screwed up. If everyone was truely gay the human race would stop existing in one single generation.

I do not discriminate against Gays, because they can't help it. But because of there mental abnormanalitites(and thats truely, what it is) they sould not be in the military or be able to adopt children. Let'm get married, let'm hold hands on the beach etc...etc....

but BOB and ROB should not be changing the diaper of a little boy.:confused:Dumbest post I have ever read on POTUS...and that is saying something...

Canis
09-25-2011, 11:16 PM
Dumbest post I have ever read on POTUS...and that is saying something...

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it!

After going back and reading all the post/comments and arguments you've made about this thread, I am of the opinion that you probably carry the rainbow flag in your local gay rights parade!

So..... your opinion is I am really DUMB

My opinion is you are a Gay Rights Activist!

Hopefully this mudd slinging of which you started is now behind us and we can politely continue the disscussion.

I am not as articulate and well written as most of you hear. And sometimes I add a lot of "FLAVOR" to a story to get my point across, for example my whole traped in a foxhole with another soldier scenario, with a short time to live.

The point I was trying to convey was (as I wrote in my reply)
"Sex should not even be in the minds of soldiers when on duty. They have more important things to worry about than being distracted by various random sexual thoughts."

FACT: Homosexual men are physically and sexually attracted to other men.

This fact is a huge magnet and attracts gays to the military, especially now that DADT has be repelled

I wish when I was in high school I could have taken showers in the Girls locker Room, that would have been HEAVEN for me.

There are gay men that want to and do join the military to be in the situation where they are surrounded by lots of young, strong, attractive, healthy men in-uniforms or better yet naked!!! What a wonderful job benifit! This isn't of course the main or only reason they enlist..alot probably most join because they truely want to serve our county...but it is a perk they think about!

Everyone knows where I stand on this issue!

After reading all your post I know you point of view on this subject.

But I do have one question for you Sir.

Do you think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt and raise children? Yes or NO!

I bet your answer will be YES...............if not they wouldn't let you tote that flag now would they!:D

Take Care

Jason Glavich
09-26-2011, 09:59 AM
FACT: Homosexual men are physically and sexually attracted to other men.



Ok so let's use this "Fact"

And add all heterosexual Men are attracted to Women!

But not all Hetero Men are attracted to all Women, Nor is every Homosexual man attracted to every man he sees.

A little phobic sounding to me.

Sexuality has no place in the military, regardless of Homo or Hetero in nature.

BonMallari
09-26-2011, 11:24 AM
But I do have one question for you Sir.

Do you think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt and raise children? Yes or NO!

I bet your answer will be YES...............if not they wouldn't let you tote that flag now would they!:D

Take Care

There are some same sex couples that I would trust my son with more than traditional hetero couples...and that's just not his uncle, or his aunt...is it the ideal role model? of course not...but its not for me to judge what is dysfunctional..

does that make me a gay rights activist :rolleyes: Gimme a break...I am not afraid of gay men hitting on me, because I am not their type


I am more afraid of gay women wanting to kick my azzz.....for some reason they dont like me at all..

road kill
09-26-2011, 11:26 AM
There are some same sex couples that I would trust my son with more than traditional hetero couples...and that's just not his uncle, or his aunt...is it the ideal role model? of course not...but its not for me to judge what is dysfunctional..

does that make me a gay rights activist :rolleyes: Gimme a break...I am not afraid of gay men hitting on me, because I am not their type


I am more afraid of gay women wanting to kick my azzz.....for some reason they dont like me at all..

I am just afraid, Bon..........:cool:



RK

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 03:04 PM
That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it!

After going back and reading all the post/comments and arguments you've made about this thread, I am of the opinion that you probably carry the rainbow flag in your local gay rights parade!

So..... your opinion is I am really DUMB

My opinion is you are a Gay Rights Activist!

Hopefully this mudd slinging of which you started is now behind us and we can politely continue the disscussion.

I am not as articulate and well written as most of you hear. And sometimes I add a lot of "FLAVOR" to a story to get my point across, for example my whole traped in a foxhole with another soldier scenario, with a short time to live.

The point I was trying to convey was (as I wrote in my reply)
"Sex should not even be in the minds of soldiers when on duty. They have more important things to worry about than being distracted by various random sexual thoughts."

FACT: Homosexual men are physically and sexually attracted to other men.

This fact is a huge magnet and attracts gays to the military, especially now that DADT has be repelled

I wish when I was in high school I could have taken showers in the Girls locker Room, that would have been HEAVEN for me.

There are gay men that want to and do join the military to be in the situation where they are surrounded by lots of young, strong, attractive, healthy men in-uniforms or better yet naked!!! What a wonderful job benifit! This isn't of course the main or only reason they enlist..alot probably most join because they truely want to serve our county...but it is a perk they think about!

Everyone knows where I stand on this issue!

After reading all your post I know you point of view on this subject.

But I do have one question for you Sir.

Do you think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt and raise children? Yes or NO!

I bet your answer will be YES...............if not they wouldn't let you tote that flag now would they!:D

Take CareYour reading comprehension is severely lacking. Although the ignorance from your first post should've told me that I suppose. If you read my posts, like you said you did, you would notice that I am not for homosexuals being open in the military. You will also notice that I said that since we now have as law homosexuals serving openly in the military they deserve the same rights as everyone else in the military, and that includes benefits for loved ones. They are bleeding the same color blood as everyone else. They are risking their lives for people like you to voice your opinion.

You obviously also have little understanding of biology to go a long with your lacking of reading comprehension. Homosexuality is seen throughout the animal kingdom and is a lot of species is a necessary part of survival. When the population of a species in a given area becomes to large that it can no longer sustain themselves some will born homosexual until the population gets to a point where they can again sustain themselves. Some biologists believe that is why we see a huge rise in homosexuals along with our huge boom in population.

I don't care if homosexuals adopt...that doesn't affect me so why would I care. Studies show that kids thrive in a 2 parent household it says nothing about a male and a female household.....

So to conclude, no it does not go against biology and I am definitely not the cheer leader for homosexuals I just believe that if we are now going to allow them to do something they should be given the same rights as everyone else. People are okay with others rights being denied but when it's something they care about they get all up in arms about it. How about trying to be a little unbiased in your champion of "rights".

road kill
09-26-2011, 04:18 PM
Your reading comprehension is severely lacking. Although the ignorance from your first post should've told me that I suppose. If you read my posts, like you said you did, you would notice that I am not for homosexuals being open in the military. You will also notice that I said that since we now have as law homosexuals serving openly in the military they deserve the same rights as everyone else in the military, and that includes benefits for loved ones. They are bleeding the same color blood as everyone else. They are risking their lives for people like you to voice your opinion.

You obviously also have little understanding of biology to go a long with your lacking of reading comprehension. Homosexuality is seen throughout the animal kingdom and is a lot of species is a necessary part of survival. When the population of a species in a given area becomes to large that it can no longer sustain themselves some will born homosexual until the population gets to a point where they can again sustain themselves. Some biologists believe that is why we see a huge rise in homosexuals along with our huge boom in population.

I don't care if homosexuals adopt...that doesn't affect me so why would I care. Studies show that kids thrive in a 2 parent household it says nothing about a male and a female household.....

So to conclude, no it does not go against biology and I am definitely not the cheer leader for homosexuals I just believe that if we are now going to allow them to do something they should be given the same rights as everyone else. People are okay with others rights being denied but when it's something they care about they get all up in arms about it. How about trying to be a little unbiased in your champion of "rights".
If they are to have the "same" rights as any other service person, why is there now sensitivity training on dealing with homosexuals in the military???????



Just askin'.......


RK

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 04:36 PM
If they are to have the "same" rights as any other service person, why is there now sensitivity training on dealing with homosexuals in the military???????



Just askin'.......


RK
Because a lot of people are not okay with homosexuals. Again RK I have said that they should not be serving openly and that is why. It DOES create tension the ranks. You will not see me arguing that. I completely agree with you there. What I have been trying to say is that they are allowed to serve, for better or for worse, and they deserve to have the same rights as everyone else because they are putting their lives on the line the same as you did.

M&K's Retrievers
09-26-2011, 04:53 PM
If they are to have the "same" rights as any other service person, why is there now sensitivity training on dealing with homosexuals in the military???????



Just askin'.......


RK

The last time I checked, you don't have any rights in the military other than the right to do as you're told. :)

steve hoppas
09-26-2011, 05:17 PM
As a former Marine grunt, all I can say is that it is a very sad day for the US Military. I just hope they treat them like women and not allow them into a Combat MOS.

road kill
09-26-2011, 05:30 PM
The last time I checked, you don't have any rights in the military other than the right to do as you're told. :)

I have been trying to say that from the beginning.
(and YOU know that)

But my 6 years, 2 commands (small boats), 1 EO billet and hundreds of sorties (several that resulted in hostile contact) have been trumped by a 20 something know it all and a lady who's Grandfather served on a ship in WWII.

So what do I know........:rolleyes:


RK

charly_t
09-26-2011, 05:41 PM
I have been trying to say that from the beginning.
(and YOU know that)

But my 6 years, 2 commands (small boats), 1 EO billet and hundreds of sorties (several that resulted in hostile contact) have been trumped by a 20 something know it all and a lady who's Grandfather served on a ship in WWII.

So what do I know........:rolleyes:


RK

We all know who to listen to, vbg. My Marine grandson thinks he knows a lot but we all know he needs more "seasoning". He has not been in a battle. We really do understand, RK. We know that we can not know all the things that someone who has faced enemy in battle knows. I know that I can not talk to people and have them understand about my family problems if they have not faced something like it.

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 06:37 PM
I have been trying to say that from the beginning.
(and YOU know that)

But my 6 years, 2 commands (small boats), 1 EO billet and hundreds of sorties (several that resulted in hostile contact) have been trumped by a 20 something know it all and a lady who's Grandfather served on a ship in WWII.

So what do I know........:rolleyes:


RK
But you are incorrect...you do have rights in the military. You have a right to get paid, you have a right to benefits for both yourself and your family; both while you are in and after you are out. To be honest your service however honorable it may be doesn't give you anymore insight to the rights you are afforded by statues in the United States.

Do you have first amendment rights? Nope but you will find NO ONE here arguing that so it is moot. The point being argued is that straight people are given certain benefits and there is no reason presented here that they don't deserve those, just a lot of you arguing they shouldn't....

road kill
09-26-2011, 06:47 PM
But you are incorrect...you do have rights in the military. You have a right to get paid, you have a right to benefits for both yourself and your family; both while you are in and after you are out. To be honest your service however honorable it may be doesn't give you anymore insight to the rights you are afforded by statues in the United States.

Do you have first amendment rights? Nope but you will find NO ONE here arguing that so it is moot. The point being argued is that straight people are given certain benefits and there is no reason presented here that they don't deserve those, just a lot of you arguing they shouldn't....

Of course I am incorrect.

I understand, what could I possibly know about the military??

You guys are all so much more well versed in what the service is and how it (should) run.

I get it, believe me.
And when you get your way, and it blows up in your face, you will be pissed that guys like me didn't save you from yourself.:razz:

RK

Terri
09-26-2011, 06:54 PM
Road Kill is right all the people who serve in the military can do is take orders. It is the civilians that make the rules in this country, yes even for the military. I wanted to hear what people in the military thought. I may agree with most of what you say, what I do not like is weak reasoning and the lack of vision. Don't ask don't tell was just a stepping stone to what we have today. I still can't understand why some on here could not see that the final outcome would be to allow homosexuals the right to voice their sexual preference. Give an inch and you will loss a mile.

I may just be a lady who had a grandpa serve on a ship in WWII (besides many other relatives, who have served), which gave me and everyone else the right to voice an option. That FREEDOM is what makes this the greatest country in the world and anyone who wants to down play that right has lost sight of what it means to serve this country. I heard that in the military the individual (me, my ,and I) does not exist, but I'm hearing a lot of guys on here trying to make it about themselves, instead of dealing with the facts.

The fact is you have homosexuals in the military, if they say it or not does not change the fact. I still do not believe that you heterosexual guys have never once mentioned to another person you serve with that you have a girlfriend or wife. I was just at a professional soccer game on July 4th in Salt Lake City, Utah where the guest to be honored where guys/gals serving in the military. They did not come alone onto the field, but had their wives/husbands and children out there holding the American flag while the National Anthem was sung. I have also seem many home comings and there was a lot of hugging going on between people in uniform and civilians. Two examples of heterosexuals in the military displaying their sexual preference for all to see.

I'm just one voice and one vote, so you do not have to accept my point of view as any thing more that what it is, my point of view. Do not fear the homosexual soldier because all he can do is take orders, fear the civilian you call Commander-in-Chief.

Terri

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 07:00 PM
Of course I am incorrect.

I understand, what could I possibly know about the military??

You guys are all so much more well versed in what the service is and how it (should) run.

I get it, believe me.
And when you get your way, and it blows up in your face, you will be pissed that guys like me didn't save you from yourself.:razz:

RK
Well if you do in fact know something then please educate the rest of us. Please deny the fact that you do not have the rights I stated in my previous post and show the facts. Sitting here and saying you know more than everyone because you served but not stating anything else means absolutely nothing. Your experience doesn't give you anymore insight to the laws then anyone else. They are laws on the books that anyone can read.

road kill
09-26-2011, 07:04 PM
Well if you do in fact know something then please educate the rest of us. Please deny the fact that you do not have the rights I stated in my previous post and show the facts. Sitting here and saying you know more than everyone because you served but not stating anything else means absolutely nothing. Your experience doesn't give you anymore insight to the laws then anyone else. They are laws on the books that anyone can read.

Yep, your right, you know all about it.
I know nothing about it.
After all, ytou have an opinion and know what you feel!!:rolleyes:

UCMJ regards.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Have you ever read it??
I have.......;-)


I have to quit posting on this topic, though it's hard.
I didn't care what my guys (I never had women in my crews) did off duty, as long as they performed when called.
I also didn't want to hear about it.
I didn't tell them what I did at home, nor they me, worked out real well.


RK

M&K's Retrievers
09-26-2011, 07:24 PM
Yep, your right, you know all about it.
I know nothing about it.
After all, ytou have an opinion and know what you feel!!:rolleyes:

UCMJ regards.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Have you ever read it??
I have.......;-)


I have to quit posting on this topic, though it's hard.
I didn't care what my guys (I never had women in my crews) did off duty, as long as they performed when called.
I also didn't want to hear about it.
I didn't tell them what I did at home, nor they me, worked out real well.


RK

Read it? I think I may have a couple of "15s" in my past.

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 07:24 PM
Yep, your right, you know all about it.
I know nothing about it.
After all, ytou have an opinion and know what you feel!!:rolleyes:

UCMJ regards.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Have you ever read it??
I have.......;-)


I have to quit posting on this topic, though it's hard.
I didn't care what my guys (I never had women in my crews) did off duty, as long as they performed when called.
I also didn't want to hear about it.
I didn't tell them what I did at home, nor they me, worked out real well.


RKYou have added nothing to the discussion anyway. You keep coming here and saying we don't know what we are talking about but refuse to counter any of the points made. Is that because you can't? I'll ask one more time in hopes you will actually respond...Why do you believe that you are entitled to more rights than others? And if I am incorrect about anything in my posts please correct me. You inability to do so, so far leads me to believe that I am in fact correct in all my assertions.

Canis
09-26-2011, 07:33 PM
If you read my posts, like you said you did, you would notice that I am not for homosexuals being open in the military. You will also notice that I said that since we now have as law homosexuals serving openly in the military they deserve the same rights as everyone else in the military, and that includes benefits for loved ones. They are bleeding the same color blood as everyone else. They are risking their lives for people like you to voice your opinion.


Ok following your logic........Homosexuals life partners should get the same rights as Married Hetero couples/spouses.

Well inorder for Hetero couples partners to be elligible for benefits THEY HAVE TO BE MARRIED! Not just boy friend girl friend.

The federal government does not recognize gay marriage, only a hand full of states allow gay people to get married. If your argument wins, This creates a complex problem of which can only be solved by Passage of Federal Law recognizing gay marriage.

So now that DADT has been repelled and gays are allowed to openly serve then there Life Partners should be able to receive the same benefits as Married Hetero couples. This can only lead to the USA, nationally excepting gay marriage.

I am not christian: But this country is a christian country, the vast majority of people living in the USA are christian. When I look on the back of a dollar bill it says "In God we Trust"............What happened to Pledging "One nation under God"

From 1776 until now the USA grew to be the greatest country the World has ever known. This country was founded by christians! Christian morals and beliefs are the foundation of which the country was built.

I have Read the King James Bible, and God does not think it is ok for one man to sleep with another man

When the Vast Majority of people (christian's) have to cater and yield to a very small minority(gays), it will be the demise of the great USA.

This is a Christian Country, being Homo-bi-trans is a SIN according to the bible.

Forceing the American Public(which is a christian public) to accept people living in Blantant SIN is ridiculous.

Where does it end????????????????????

the next thing will be Objectum-Sexuals wanting to legally marry the object they are in love with inorder to get a tax break.

Heck someone in the future might love his sheep and want to marry it, I guess that will be ok!

If you do not like living in a Country founded by Christians, Then MOVE, get the heck out and go to some other country where homosexualiy is not a SIN.

road kill
09-26-2011, 07:34 PM
Read it? I think I may have a couple of "15s" in my past.

hahahahha!

I presided over a couple of "Masts."

I told more than 1 to get that silly crap outa here!

Was MY call and my call alone.

RK

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 07:40 PM
Ok following your logic........Homosexuals life partners should get the same rights as Married Hetero couples/spouses.

Well inorder for Hetero couples partners to be elligible for benefits THEY HAVE TO BE MARRIED! Not just boy friend girl friend.

The federal government does not recognize gay marriage, only a hand full of states allow gay people to get married. If your argument wins, This creates a complex problem of which can only be solved by Passage of Federal Law recognizing gay marriage.

So now that DADT has been repelled and gays are allowed to openly serve then there Life Partners should be able to receive the same benefits as Married Hetero couples. This can only lead to the USA, nationally excepting gay marriage.

I am not christian: But this country is a christian country, the vast majority of people living in the USA are christian. When I look on the back of a dollar bill it says "In God we Trust"............What happened to Pledging "One nation under God"

From 1776 until now the USA grew to be the greatest country the World has ever known. This country was founded by christians! Christian morals and beliefs are the foundation of which the country was built.

I have Read the King James Bible, and God does not think it is ok for one man to sleep with another man

When the Vast Majority of people (christian's) have to cater and yield to a very small minority(gays), it will be the demise of the great USA.

This is a Christian Country, being Homo-bi-trans is a SIN according to the bible.

Forceing the American Public(which is a christian public) to accept people living in Blantant SIN is ridiculous.

Where does it end????????????????????

the next thing will be Objectum-Sexuals wanting to legally marry the object they are in love with inorder to get a tax break.

Heck someone in the future might love his sheep and want to marry it, I guess that will be ok!

If you do not like living in a Country founded by Christians, Then MOVE, get the heck out and go to some other country where homosexualiy is not a SIN.
Go back and read the posts in this thread since you obviously didn't...me and Bon already discussed this...

Canis
09-26-2011, 07:50 PM
I don't care if homosexuals adopt...that doesn't affect me so why would I care.

Yeah it does not affect you, but what about the innocent child. Are you heartless? you don't care about a innocent childs development?

Funny how gays abopting doesn't bother you because it doesn't affect you.

Ulitmately gays serving openly in the Military does not AFFECT you, but you sure seem to care alot about this subject?

are you gay homo bi trans? I am genuinely currious?

take care

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 08:05 PM
I don't really care if they serve one way or the other. All I care about is whether or not it affects the readiness of troops, as far as them serving goes. What I do care about is people being denied rights that others are given, when they are risking their lives just the same way as heterosexuals are. Again read the studies the reason I don't care about gays adopting is because it doesn't affect ANYONE including the child. Your ignorance on the issues blinds you. The American Psychological Association, in a recent report reviewing the research, observed that "not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents," and concluded that "home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth."

Canis
09-26-2011, 09:35 PM
I don't really care if they serve one way or the other. All I care about is whether or not it affects the readiness of troops, as far as them serving goes. What I do care about is people being denied rights that others are given, when they are risking their lives just the same way as heterosexuals are. Again read the studies the reason I don't care about gays adopting is because it doesn't affect ANYONE including the child. Your ignorance on the issues blinds you. The American Psychological Association, in a recent report reviewing the research, observed that "not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents," and concluded that "home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth."

quote your American Psychological Association reports all you want!

95% of the Media is Biased to the Left so stories like the one below are hard to find!

What you really need to do is talk to Adults that were raised by Same-Sex-Parents.

Bronagh Cassidy was raised by same-sex-parrents and she doesn't think it is a good Idea.

http://www.njfpc.org/Articles/HomosexualAdoptionGallagher.asp

as time goes on you are going to hear from more and more children like Cassidy........

Canis
09-26-2011, 10:05 PM
My opinion is this

gays should not be in the Military at all.
gays should not be able to adopt kids.
I am ok with everything else they want.

majority of gay people are born that way, it is truely something they did not choose for themselves.

I personally do not have a problem with any gay, homo, bi, or lesb and would never treat them differently than any other person.

I do not think nor expect everyone in the world to share my opinion.

Just for the record I dated a Bi-sexual woman for 2 years.

Cody Covey Iam still genuinely curious are you gay/homo/bi or straight???

your answer to this question will help me to understand your passion on this subject.

I am hetero and this week is my two year wedding anniversary.

take care

Cody Covey
09-26-2011, 10:41 PM
Nope not gay or anything and the 18th was my one year anniversary...with a woman :) My passion has absolutely zero to do with homosexuals and you will see in my posts throughout this thread that I agree with you that they should not be able to join the military. My passion is about equality for all. The simple fact is we do let them in and they are risking their lives daily so that you and I can have this disagreement. Why shouldn't we give them the benefits afforded to heterosexuals.

Can you give me a reason for not allowing it...not hypotheticals about them not being allowed in..we agree there but they are in. So what is your opinion on that?

Canis
09-27-2011, 11:11 AM
OK.....now that don't ask don't tell has been repealed and gays are allowed to serve openly in the military!

I PERSONALLY,(on this one particular issue) do not have any problem with benefits being given to there "Life Partner" if they are Marrierd in some form or fashion! However I realize that is not the view the majority of Americans hold.

You make the point of equality for all..........this kinda scares me! I will explain

Now that dadt has been repealed, we are just a few years away from the federal government passing a law recognizing same-sex marriage nationally.

So in the future Same-Sex couples will have all the rights of traditional married couples. I predict this will eventualy happen.

But where does it stop?????????

no kidding I am serious........

What about "Objectum-sexuals" people that arent attracted to men or women, these people are sexually attracted to and fall in LOVE with objects. What about there rights......??? watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMcoLnaWOY so if this woman in the story joined the military and was killed in action then her military life insurance money would go to the Eiffel Tower maintenance department?

What about People that beleive in polygamy, what happens when a Morman poloygamist joins the military and wants health insurance for all of his wives???

What about Zoosexuals...people whos sexual orientation is with animals not humans???? Zoosexuals are born that way RIGHT, we can't discriminate against them, they can't help it right?

I could go on....and on.....but I think you get my point.

WE HAVE TO DRAW THE LINE SOMEWHERE

Pete
09-29-2011, 07:40 AM
Hey if they get to shower and sleep with the other guys,,, then I want to shower and bunk with the babes.

This subject runs way deeper on a spiritual level.

Pete