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View Full Version : If he thinks we've made all the wrong moves, wait till the tea party takes over



Buzz
09-22-2011, 02:24 PM
He'll be looking back at today and feeling nostalgic for the good old days...


http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/what-profit-hath-a-man-of-all-his-labor/


Im in a weird mood as the markets tumble. It will pass, but right now I feel like the preacher in Ecclesiastes, wondering about the point of it all.

Heres the point: back around 1998 I was among those who looked at the crisis in Asia and realized what it implied namely, that the problems that caused the Great Depression had not been solved, and that it could happen again. The speculative attacks on smaller nations, the liquidity trap in Japan, were omens for all of us. In 1999 I wrote a book, The Return of Depression Economics, saying all that.

When the 2008 crisis struck, it was immediately clear that this was what we had been afraid of. And it was desperately important that policy makers realize that we were in a world where the usual rules no longer applied.

But they didnt. The banks were rescued but as soon as that happened, the moralizers and deficit worriers, the people who see hyperinflation lurking under every bed, took over. Warnings that we were repeating not just the mistakes of Japan but the mistakes of Hoover and Bruening were waved away as the squeaking of people of no consequence, never mind the fact that some of us had pretty fancy credentials.

And now we are exactly where I feared wed be, repeating all the old mistakes and experiencing all the old consequences.

As I said, Ill get over it. But grant me a moment to look on the past three years, and despair.

road kill
09-22-2011, 02:28 PM
He'll be looking back at today and feeling nostalgic for the good old days...


http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/what-profit-hath-a-man-of-all-his-labor/

Yes indeed Buzz, these are the best of times!:rolleyes:

I really wonder what it will take for people like you to understand that things are NOT good and the WRONG guy is at the helm??
I actually think you progressives are fighting for something that when you get it you will hate us for letting you get it.

Things can and will be better, I hope.

I am just amazed at the fact that an intelligent well schooled person can look at what this administration is doing and be proud and think it is a positive for America.


Dear Dr. K:

Unless your last sentence was an unintentional allusion, you should perhaps be wary of giving your many enemies cause to accuse you of Ozymandian arrogance.



RK

Franco
09-22-2011, 02:50 PM
Krugman thinks government has the answers when in reality, government makes a bad situation worse.

Krugman was a supporter of the 900 billion stimulus. The spending of newly printed and borrowed money, money that the tax payer is on the hook for. We all know how much good that did!

Krugman is anti-Free Market. The only reality is the Free Market. Because of people like Krugman, Bernake, Greenspan to name a few, we live in an artificial economy and that's why we have the financial meltdown we have today!

I'm just delighted not to have any of my money in the stock market. Down another 400 plus points today because of people like Krugman.

caryalsobrook
09-22-2011, 03:14 PM
He'll be looking back at today and feeling nostalgic for the good old days...


http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/what-profit-hath-a-man-of-all-his-labor/

I do think you laughed when I said in May that "you hadn't seen nothing yet".

Monetary policy is to increase money supply in order to increase demand. The velocity of money continues to decrease because trillions of dollars sit on the sidelines and those that have it won't spend it. they won't invest it and they won't loan it. Oh those stupid devils with all that money. If they would only listen to we Keynesians and spend it or invest it or loan it then all would be well. OUR POLICY IS NOT THE PROBLEM IT'S THOSE STUPID BASTARDS WITH ALL THAT MONEY THAT WON'T DO WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO. Answer, INFLATE THE MONEY SUPPLY EVEN MORE AND MAKE THEM DO WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO!!!!

If we do more of what has failed surely it will work if we only just do more of it.

Buzz
09-22-2011, 03:34 PM
I do think you laughed when I said in May that "you hadn't seen nothing yet".




Think again. I didn't laugh. I agreed with you, despite the fact we likely each believed that for different reasons.



INFLATE THE MONEY SUPPLY EVEN MORE AND MAKE THEM DO WHAT WE WANT THEM TO DO!!!!

If we do more of what has failed surely it will work if we only just do more of it.

Printing money normally brings on expectations of high inflation. So people try and unload that asset in favor of higher yielding less liquid ones. But that's not happening and it's not going to happen. Liquidity trap...

Buzz
09-22-2011, 03:44 PM
Krugman is anti-Free Market.

That's BS...

caryalsobrook
09-22-2011, 04:19 PM
Think again. I didn't laugh. I agreed with you, despite the fact we likely each believed that for different reasons.




Printing money normally brings on expectations of high inflation. So people try and unload that asset in favor of higher yielding less liquid ones. But that's not happening and it's not going to happen. Liquidity trap...

So let me get this straight. the FED bought 600 billion in tresury notes, increasing the money supply to create an expectation of inflation so that people would unload that asset in favor of less liquid assets and the dumb bastards didn't do it. So the solution is ooperation twist(taking money returned on short term T notes and buying long term T notes(in effect printing more money) to REALLY CONVINCE THOSE DUMB BASTARDS THAT INFLATION IS EMINEMT AND HOPE THEY WILL NOW DO WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF THEM IF WE JUST HAMMER THEM AGAIN BY PRINTING MORE MONEY. Sounds like a good plan:rolleyes:

huntinman
09-22-2011, 04:31 PM
So let me get this straight. the FED bought 600 billion in tresury notes, increasing the money supply to create an expectation of inflation so that people would unload that asset in favor of less liquid assets and the dumb bastards didn't do it. So the solution is ooperation twist(taking money returned on short term T notes and buying long term T notes(in effect printing more money) to REALLY CONVINCE THOSE DUMB BASTARDS THAT INFLATION IS EMINEMT AND HOPE THEY WILL NOW DO WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF THEM IF WE JUST HAMMER THEM AGAIN BY PRINTING MORE MONEY. Sounds like a good plan:rolleyes:

Cary, this is your government speaking... we are here to take care of you if you will just listen!:rolleyes:

Buzz
09-22-2011, 04:45 PM
So let me get this straight. the FED bought 600 billion in tresury notes, increasing the money supply to create an expectation of inflation so that people would unload that asset in favor of less liquid assets and the dumb bastards didn't do it. So the solution is ooperation twist(taking money returned on short term T notes and buying long term T notes(in effect printing more money) to REALLY CONVINCE THOSE DUMB BASTARDS THAT INFLATION IS EMINEMT AND HOPE THEY WILL NOW DO WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF THEM IF WE JUST HAMMER THEM AGAIN BY PRINTING MORE MONEY. Sounds like a good plan:rolleyes:

So we agree that monetary policy isn't working.

Franco
09-22-2011, 04:48 PM
That's BS...



So tell me, how does Krugman believes in Free Market and artificial government spending at the same time? Or, controlling/ keeping interest rates down as opposed to letting the market determine rates?

Buzz
09-22-2011, 05:05 PM
Or, controlling/ keeping interest rates down as opposed to letting the market determine rates?

So, which interest rates are we talking about?

Marvin S
09-22-2011, 05:31 PM
So, which interest rates are we talking about?

Try savings accounts - when I retired we had a 4 legged stool

Private Sector retirement - no COLA, same as 18 years ago
Social Security - COLA but at a different rate, 0 the last 2 years, :rolleyes:
Savings - We see what the fed did to that - very little from rainy day money.
& for you Franco - Stocks, the only thing that keeps things going, grows & the income rises routinely. If we did not have stocks our life style would be seriously downgraded.

I knew some things when I retired, just did not know how badly the government could screw things up.

Buzz, I lived through the Great Depression about 80 miles W & 40 miles S of where you live now. & we also had a TX level drought at that time with low prices for commodities. Never missed a meal but having 2 nickels to rub together was not always guaranteed :).

caryalsobrook
09-22-2011, 06:25 PM
So we agree that monetary policy isn't working.

BINGO!!!!!!! You have become that proverbial needle in the haystack. A Keynesian who admits that by just taking bigger and bigger monetary action, you don't necessarily get different results. Give Buzz a hand all. There is some sanity here after all!!!:D

Franco
09-22-2011, 06:31 PM
Try savings accounts - when I retired we had a 4 legged stool

Private Sector retirement - no COLA, same as 18 years ago
Social Security - COLA but at a different rate, 0 the last 2 years, :rolleyes:
Savings - We see what the fed did to that - very little from rainy day money.
& for you Franco - Stocks, the only thing that keeps things going, grows & the income rises routinely. If we did not have stocks our life style would be seriously downgraded.

I knew some things when I retired, just did not know how badly the government could screw things up.

Buzz, I lived through the Great Depression about 80 miles W & 40 miles S of where you live now. & we also had a TX level drought at that time with low prices for commodities. Never missed a meal but having 2 nickels to rub together was not always guaranteed :).

The stock market use to be a great place inwhich to invest before the crooks and manipulators took over! I'd get back in if they cleaned the cesspool out.


Keynesian Economics
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