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road kill
09-30-2011, 07:53 AM
Herman Cain for President.
We agree on almost every issue.
I have read his positions, I have heard him speak, I have watched him respond to smarmy jerks interviewing him.....he is my guy.

I sent $100 to his campaign.:rolleyes:
(paltry, but I am not rich)
I am all in with this guy.

http://www.hermancain.com/h

Look for yourself!!

stan b

IowaBayDog
09-30-2011, 08:21 AM
I am hoping once the field starts to thin out he keeps rising too. I have supported Bachmann till now but I think she will run out of money soon. That shouldn't be a problem with Cain.

road kill
09-30-2011, 08:29 AM
I am hoping once the field starts to thin out he keeps rising too. I have supported Bachmann till now but I think she will run out of money soon. That shouldn't be a problem with Cain.
Think my $100 made the difference???:rolleyes:

RK

LokiMeister
09-30-2011, 10:36 AM
Herman Cain for President.
We agree on almost every issue.
I have read his positions, I have heard him speak, I have watched him respond to smarmy jerks interviewing him.....he is my guy.

I sent $100 to his campaign.:rolleyes:
(paltry, but I am not rich)
I am all in with this guy.

http://www.hermancain.com/h

Look for yourself!!

stan b

I wouldn't expect any different. Unfortunately his website doesn't really say anything, and is just like any other candidate.

We need radical change BACK to what America was 100 years ago. Real health care, real military within our own borders, real people ready to get rid of entitlements and big government. I wish Ron Paul was younger.

road kill
09-30-2011, 10:44 AM
I wouldn't expect any different. Unfortunately his website doesn't really say anything, and is just like any other candidate.

We need radical change BACK to what America was 100 years ago. Real health care, real military within our own borders, real people ready to get rid of entitlements and big government. I wish Ron Paul was younger.

Really??


Herman Cain's 999 Plan
Vision for Economic Growth
The natural state of our economy is prosperity. Freedom ensures that.
We must get the government off our backs, out of our pockets and out of our way in order to return to prosperity.
Policy uncertainty is killing the economy.
Economic Guiding Principles
Production drives the economy, not spending.
We can not spend our way to prosperity.
Government spending IS taxation.
Government spending is like taking a bucket of water from the deep end of the pool, pouring it in the shallow end. Then they HOPE that the water level will CHANGE.
Risk taking drives growth .
Business formation and job creation are dependent on entrepreneurs taking risks.
Investors who fund those entrepreneurs likewise take risks.
Measurements must be dependable.
A dollar must always be a dollar just as an hour is always 60 minutes.
Sound money is crucial for prosperity.
We Must Unite Not Divide
When one party seeks to spend so that the other party must focus on cutting, we must unite around economic growth.
Unite all tax payers, don’t divide them into “income” tax payers vs. “payroll” tax payers.
Unite those wanting to eliminate deductions with those seeking lower rates.
As a first step, unite the “Flat-Taxers” with the “Fair-Taxers”
Economic Growth is the Key
This is the worst recovery since the Depression.
If the President’s goal was to tie for last place with the previous worst recovery, he failed by 6 million jobs.
If we had a typical recovery, 13 million more Americans would be employed today.
That means more tax revenue, less government spending and 13 million less people opposed to reasonable spending cuts.
The Super Committee must deliver a robust growth solution.
America can’t wait for 2012, we need growth NOW
Phase 1 - Immediate Boost
As I have outlined, the following represent the minimum for feeding the economic engine and are the “low hanging fruit” offering the most “bang for the buck”
Reduce individual and business income taxes to a maximum 25%
Eliminate taxes on repatriated foreign profits and capital gains.
The capital gains tax is a wall separating those with ideas from those with money.
Why would we want to wall off those with ideas? That’s where we get business formation, job creation and innovation.
When companies sell products overseas they face double taxation when those profits are brought home (repatriation) to invest in America and pay its workers.
Companies don’t ship jobs overseas, Liberals ship capital overseas and the jobs merely follow.
Phase 1 - Enhanced Plan
Current circumstances call for bolder action.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan incorporates the features of Phase One and gets us a step closer to Phase two.
I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package.
The Phase 1 Enhanced Plan unites Flat Tax supporters with Fair tax supporters.
Achieves the broadest possible tax base along with the lowest possible rate of 9%.
It ends the Payroll Tax completely – a permanent holiday!
Zero capital gains tax
Ends the Death Tax.
Eliminates double taxation of dividends
Business Flat Tax – 9%
Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone.
Individual Flat Tax – 9%.
Gross income less charitable deductions.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
National Sales Tax – 9%.
This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game.
Phase 2 – The Fair Tax
Amidst a backdrop of the economic boom created by the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
The Fair Tax would ultimately replace individual and corporate income taxes.
It would make it possible to end the IRS as we know it.
The Fair Tax makes our exported goods and services the most competitively internationally than any other tax system.
Phase 1 Enhanced Plan – Summary
Unites all tax payers so we all pay income taxes and no one pays payroll taxes
Provides the least incentive to evade taxes and the fewest opportunities to do so
Lifts a $430 billion dead-weight burden on the economy due to compliance, enforcement, collection, etc.
Is fair, neutral, transparent, and efficient
Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors
Ends all payroll taxes
Ends the Death Tax
Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits
Lowest marginal rates on production
Allows immediate expensing of business investments
Eliminates double taxation of dividends
Increases capital formation. Capital per worker drives productivity and wage growth
Capital formation will aid capital availability for small businesses
Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to revitalize our inner cities
We all know the Fed has tripled the money supply since 2008. They have been printing money out of thin air to finance the Obama spending machine. While true Fed reform that restores sound money may have to wait for my election, the best thing we can do now is to pursue policies that increase the DEMAND for dollars to help mitigate the risks associated with the increase in the supply.
Pro-growth economic policies equal a strong dollar policy


Can you show me Pauls plan??

As far as who he is?


This is Herman Cain:
Chief Executive Officer and President of THE New Voice, Inc., a business consulting company, and Head Coach of HITM (Hermanator’s Intelligent Thinkers Movement)
Former Chairman of Godfather’s Pizza, Inc. after serving as CEO and President for ten years, 1986 - 1996. In 1988 he bought the company from The Pillsbury Company
Former President of the Tax Leadership Council, the public educational component of Americans for Fair Taxation
Past Chairman of the Board of the National Restaurant Association (1994-1995), and former full time CEO and President of the Association (1996-1999)
Member of The National Commission on Economic Growth and Tax Reform (1995), chaired by former Republican Vice-Presidential candidate, Jack Kemp
Former Member, Strategic Air Command (STRATCOM) Citizens Advisory Board, Omaha, Nebraska
Radio Talk Show Host, “The Herman Cain Show”, News Talk 750 WSB – Atlanta, Monday - Friday, 7pm-10pm EST
FOX News Business Commentator and Columnist with NorthStarNational.com, World Net Daily and DailyCaller.com
At a nationally televised Presidential Town Hall Meeting on Health Care Reform (1994), challenged President Bill Clinton’s health care proposal when he said, “Mr. President, with all due respect, your calculations are incorrect…”
Served on the Boards of Directors of AGCO, Inc., Georgia Chamber of Commerce, Hallmark Cards Inc., Whirlpool, Inc.,and Morehouse College, Atlanta, Georgia
Graduated from Morehouse College with a B.S. in Mathematics in 1967. Earned his Master’s Degree in Computer Science from Purdue University in 1971. Recipient of eight Honorary Doctorate Degrees from Morehouse College, New York City Technical College; Suffolk University, Johnson & Wales University, Creighton University, Purdue University, Tougaloo College and the University of Nebraska
Author of four books, Leadership Is Common Sense (1997), Speak As A Leader (1999), CEO of SELF (October, 2001), and They Think You’re Stupid (May, 2005)
A native and current resident of Atlanta, Georgia. Married for over 40 years with two adult children and three grandchildren


Amazing, he has actually done something in his life.
As far as authoring a book??
I understand Obama has as well, except they were about himself!!!;)


RK

LokiMeister
09-30-2011, 10:46 AM
Read Ron Paul's book "Revolution, A Manifesto."

road kill
09-30-2011, 10:49 AM
Read Ron Paul's book "Revolution, A Manifesto."

No thanks.
Ron Paul is an angry old man.
I have no interest in him or his loony ideas, in line with the VAST majority of Americans.

Thanks,

RK

bbmclain
09-30-2011, 01:01 PM
Cain!!!!!!

Franco
09-30-2011, 01:23 PM
Herman Cain for President.
We agree on almost every issue.
I have read his positions, I have heard him speak, I have watched him respond to smarmy jerks interviewing him.....he is my guy.

I sent $100 to his campaign.:rolleyes:
(paltry, but I am not rich)
I am all in with this guy.

http://www.hermancain.com/h

Look for yourself!!

stan b

The wonderful thing about this country is that we are all free to make our own mistakes;-) You may want to watch the Iowa debate inwhich Cain's answers were incomprehensable.


But, since you asked about Dr. Paul on the issues, here it is indept;

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/

And, he will win the first Primary in Iowa!

road kill
09-30-2011, 01:24 PM
The wonderful thing about this country is that we are all free to make our own mistakes;-)

That is until the EPA gets involved.

But, since you asked about Dr. Paul on the issues, here it is indept;

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/

And, he will win the first Primary in Iowa!

Yep, you predicted NO would thump GB in the opener too!!


RK

Franco
09-30-2011, 01:30 PM
Yep, you predicted NO would thump GB in the opener too!!


RK

That was a tough one! ESPN has then in thier Power Rankings as #1 and #2 best teams. Should be a highly anticipated rematch in the playoffs if the Packers make it that far.

I like Cain but, Ron Paul has the depth and experience.

P S

I think of the books Ron Paul has written that "Liberty Defined" is his best!

road kill
09-30-2011, 01:34 PM
That was a tough one! ESPN has then in thier Power Rankings as #1 and #2 best teams. Should be a highly anticipated rematch in the playoffs.

I like Cain but, Ron Paul has the depth and experience.

P S

I think of the books Ron Paul has written that "Liberty Defined" is his best!
Graham had a HUGE game this past weekend.

It was the TE weekend all around the league.


RK

Franco
09-30-2011, 01:38 PM
The Pack has the best TE in the game today with Finley, the man is a beast. Our Graham had a great weekend and as far as youngsters go, I wouldn't trade him for another in the league. Love his size 6 foot 6 inches and talented enough for us to cut Shockey.

Franco
09-30-2011, 01:45 PM
P S

What is Cain's Foreign Policy?

Monetary policy? Will he continue to allow foreign banks to control our currency via The Federal Reserve?

Looks like he got much of his talking points from Ron Paul. But, how far can he run with it?

road kill
09-30-2011, 01:45 PM
The Pack has the best TE in the game today with Finley, the man is a beast. Our Graham had a great weekend and as far as youngsters go, I wouldn't trade him for another in the league. Love his size 6 foot 6 inches and talented enough for us to cut Shockey.

Keller had a big day, so did Gronkowski.

I like that guy a lot (Gronkowski), that is a beast!!!!!


RK

cpj
09-30-2011, 02:19 PM
Road Kill, If i'm not mistaken Cain sat on the board of one of the Federal Reserve banks yet isn't listed on your resume' for him. Who made that list? Did his campaign do it?

road kill
09-30-2011, 02:20 PM
P S

What is Cain's Foreign Policy?

Monetary policy? Will he continue to allow foreign banks to control our currency via The Federal Reserve?

Looks like he got much of his talking points from Ron Paul. But, how far can he run with it?

Here are his own words.
I admit that HE admits it's developing.

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/herman-cain-interview-on-new-ideas-to-tame-iran-dick-morris-tv-lunch-alert/


RK

road kill
09-30-2011, 02:22 PM
Road Kill, If i'm not mistaken Cain sat on the board of one of the Federal Reserve banks yet isn't listed on your resume' for him. Who made that list? Did his campaign do it?

Hmmmmmm.....if it's not there, where would one find it?

I am willing to read it if you can direct me.

Also, none of these KLOWNS are perfect to me.
Are any of them to you??

Who are you endorsing or liking??

I laid it out there, all anyone can do is pick Cain apart.

Give me a better guy....I will look.


RK

IowaBayDog
09-30-2011, 02:53 PM
RP will not win the Caucus in Iowa, he'll be lucky to get 20%. There aren't enough pot head libertarians here and his latest comment on killing terrorists will kill the miniscual chance he had with the Bible conservative crowd here.

Most of the cars that had RP stickers at the Iowa Straw Poll were from out of state, college kids with Iowa IDs would be my guess.

Franco
09-30-2011, 03:41 PM
RP will not win the Caucus in Iowa, he'll be lucky to get 20%. There aren't enough pot head libertarians here and his latest comment on killing terrorists will kill the miniscual chance he had with the Bible conservative crowd here.

Most of the cars that had RP stickers at the Iowa Straw Poll were from out of state, college kids with Iowa IDs would be my guess.



Then why should we bother to convict mafia bosses and criminals that are U S Citizens? Should the government should just blow them up and say, "Live by the sword, die by the sword."?

I find it puzzling that so many people cheering this assassinat­ion are warmongeri­ng pro-life Christians­. They want to protect life in the womb (I have no problem with that), but go abroad and kill tens of thousands of innocent people..

After eight years of war, we are no safer, no closer to building respect and friendship among Muslim nations, no closer to paying for the $2 trillion of debt these illegal wars racked up and no closer to changing the intentions of militants to commit acts of terror against us. No, this does not send a message to terrorists­. This just emboldens them.

In Hitler's Germany, freedom of speech, disarmamen­t of population­, warrant less searches, the suspension of due process and the killing of citizens by the State became the norm. Our Constituti­on specifical­ly protects us from such a government­. During WWI and WWII many of our Constituti­onal rights were trampled upon. Under the so-called war on terror, US citizens become "people of interests" and as such become targets for State authorized assassinat­ions. These bloodthirs­ty individual­s with no respect for the Constituti­on (until their rights are violated) happily come to the defense of the State. It is incomprehe­nsible.

Obviously Ron Paul is 100% correct. Even if the government says you are a very bad person, they cannot go around bombing and killing US citizens. If they can, where do we draw the line? Who determines what Americans are 'threateni­ng' enough to assassinat­e without a trial? What are the geographic­al limits to this power of assassinat­ion? Can US citizens be assassinat­ed on US soil? What are the disclosure requiremen­ts? Can the government secretly assassinat­e those it considers dangerous?

We either have a Constitution we live by or we don't!

cpj
09-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Obama wanted to give the Gitmo detainees trials in new York city but not an American citizen.

cpj
09-30-2011, 07:21 PM
Cain was a board member and later chairman of the fed bank in Kansas City.

huntinman
09-30-2011, 09:35 PM
The wonderful thing about this country is that we are all free to make our own mistakes;-) You may want to watch the Iowa debate inwhich Cain's answers were incomprehensable.


But, since you asked about Dr. Paul on the issues, here it is indept;

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/

And, he will win the first Primary in Iowa!

As opposed to ALL of Ron Paul's answers which are incomprehensable. The nut said today that we "assasinated" that poor terrorist. What is he doing in the Republican party?

wrtaylor
10-01-2011, 01:38 PM
Rick Perry all the way!

BonMallari
10-01-2011, 02:10 PM
I endorse the Republican nominee...I know better than to hitch the wagon to any one candidate this early in the race before a single primary ballot is cast

but..if the primary was held tomorrow I would cast a vote for Herman Cain

Gerry Clinchy
10-01-2011, 04:42 PM
Whoever the nominee eventually turns out to be, I hope it is at least someone like Herman Cain ... not in the good, ole boys DC melee; intelligent; practical; able to relate to business; able to relate to those trying to make ends meet; able to inspire, not just with words but with strong character that demonstrates integrity; strong belief in much of what is right with the US.

JDogger
10-01-2011, 08:02 PM
Herman Cain for President.
We agree on almost every issue.
I have read his positions, I have heard him speak, I have watched him respond to smarmy jerks interviewing him.....he is my guy.

I sent $100 to his campaign.:rolleyes:
(paltry, but I am not rich)
I am all in with this guy.

http://www.hermancain.com/h

Look for yourself!!

stan b

Hitch your wagon to a star. JD

Ducko
10-02-2011, 02:39 PM
Herman Cain for President.
We agree on almost every issue.
I have read his positions, I have heard him speak, I have watched him respond to smarmy jerks interviewing him.....he is my guy.

I sent $100 to his campaign.:rolleyes:
(paltry, but I am not rich)
I am all in with this guy.

http://www.hermancain.com/h

Look for yourself!!

stan b

Good Man ! I'd like Cain/Newt Ticket. Cain is a businessman, not a politician. We need a businessman. Newt is a politician so he could give Herman advice. I REALLY Like the 9,9,9 thing.:D

Ducko
10-02-2011, 02:50 PM
But most importantly, anyone whos NOT Obama will be better than him. We just need to get this @$$Wipe out of the Whitehouse.

I like Rick Perry except his stance on illegal immigration, that just makes the Mexicans want to come here even more.

My Money is going to Herman Cain. Although since im 14 I don't have alot of money to give.

bbmclain
10-02-2011, 04:11 PM
Whoever the nominee eventually turns out to be, I hope it is at least someone like Herman Cain ... not in the good, ole boys DC melee; intelligent; practical; able to relate to business; able to relate to those trying to make ends meet; able to inspire, not just with words but with strong character that demonstrates integrity; strong belief in much of what is right with the US.

What he said.....

Gerry Clinchy
10-03-2011, 08:21 AM
My Money is going to Herman Cain. Although since im 14 I don't have alot of money to give.

For a 14-year-old, you are a whole lot more mature and smarter than I was at that age!

Ken Bora
10-03-2011, 06:40 PM
when I was 14 I was trying to figure out why Jimmy Carter wouldn't just go get those poor hostages. Then he went and tried and the helicopters crashed. I remember being that kid feeling we had the worst leader ever. And now Ducko, here you are. What a crazy world we live in. I am told, by folk smarter than I. That we could not have had the greatness of Ronald Reagan without the ineptness of Jimmy Carter first. So.... who will rise from the ineptness of President Obama? I, at this time do not know. But I will miss a chunk of Monday Night Football to watch Hannity on FOX (fair and balanced) tonight.
.

kjrice
10-03-2011, 07:56 PM
I have always been a fan of Ron Paul's economic policies and constitutionalism. I disagree with his isolationist stance but agree that it is time to tighten the belt. We can hit objectives without occupying multiple nations. Do not think big business doesn't play a strong hand in it too. I am for less government and government that truly oversees fair commerce and trade. I don't need another media pimped candidate like Perry, which is more of the same. RP is the only one with the credentials and history to show he is not on the take. For me, he is a message vote as well as a congressional checks and balances vote. I don't need someone like Perry who gets greased by Merck only to mandate vaccinations. I don't need ANYONE that supports illegal alien amnesty. The President is not the solution rather a part of the checks and balances system. Cain is intriguing but I am wary due to his banking ties and service. I finf humor in those that thing RP doesn't have a chance when public opinion polls or straw counts indicate he is very strong yet get buried by Big Media (including Fox) on purpose. FInally, it is amazing that turds like Frank and Dodd still get legislation (credit card) passed with all that they have done to screw you and me. That should tell you something. Wake up lemmings. The two-part system is not your friend. FWIW - I am a "Conservatarian".

Ducko
10-03-2011, 07:58 PM
when I was 14 I was trying to figure out why Jimmy Carter wouldn't just go get those poor hostages. Then he went and tried and the helicopters crashed. I remember being that kid feeling we had the worst leader ever. And now Ducko, here you are. What a crazy world we live in. I am told, by folk smarter than I. That we could not have had the greatness of Ronald Reagan without the ineptness of Jimmy Carter first. So.... who will rise from the ineptness of President Obama? I, at this time do not know. But I will miss a chunk of Monday Night Football to watch Hannity on FOX (fair and balanced) tonight.
.


Well, whoever wins the election, will at least be better than who we've got now. I think Reagan is proof that the conservative way of things work far better than liberal ones. And I think Obama is proof that liberal ones DON'T. I think Cain is the answer to this mess, although it will take time. While I may not be able to vote, I sure can Campaign ! :D

Ken Bora
10-03-2011, 08:34 PM
O.K. Cain comming on after break. Hope he is good 'cause this Painter Kid is the real deal. Like a little, long haired Manning. Buckaneers are backpedalin'


.

Franco
10-03-2011, 09:38 PM
I have always been a fan of Ron Paul's economic policies and constitutionalism. I disagree with his isolationist stance but agree that it is time to tighten the belt. We can hit objectives without occupying multiple nations. Do not think big business doesn't play a strong hand in it too. I am for less government and government that truly oversees fair commerce and trade. I don't need another media pimped candidate like Perry, which is more of the same. RP is the only one with the credentials and history to show he is not on the take. For me, he is a message vote as well as a congressional checks and balances vote. I don't need someone like Perry who gets greased by Merck only to mandate vaccinations. I don't need ANYONE that supports illegal alien amnesty. The President is not the solution rather a part of the checks and balances system. Cain is intriguing but I am wary due to his banking ties and service. I finf humor in those that thing RP doesn't have a chance when public opinion polls or straw counts indicate he is very strong yet get buried by Big Media (including Fox) on purpose. FInally, it is amazing that turds like Frank and Dodd still get legislation (credit card) passed with all that they have done to screw you and me. That should tell you something. Wake up lemmings. The two-part system is not your friend. FWIW - I am a "Conservatarian".

Good for you Kev! Conservatarian...amazing how many folks are leaning that way. Kind of what being a Conservative use to be before it was hijacked.

What concerns me the most about Cain is his complete lack of Foreign Policy experience and ties to Wall St.

Gerry Clinchy
10-03-2011, 09:50 PM
http://004eeb5.netsolhost.com/hermancain.htm

I stumbled across this website & don't even remember how I got there.

Has several articles written by Herman Cain back in 2009.

He wasn't fond of Cash for Clunkers either :-) I haven't read all of them, but thought they might be of interest for some others on the forum.

cotts135
10-04-2011, 06:38 AM
Then why should we bother to convict mafia bosses and criminals that are U S Citizens? Should the government should just blow them up and say, "Live by the sword, die by the sword."?

I find it puzzling that so many people cheering this assassinat*ion are warmongeri*ng pro-life Christians*. They want to protect life in the womb (I have no problem with that), but go abroad and kill tens of thousands of innocent people..

After eight years of war, we are no safer, no closer to building respect and friendship among Muslim nations, no closer to paying for the $2 trillion of debt these illegal wars racked up and no closer to changing the intentions of militants to commit acts of terror against us. No, this does not send a message to terrorists*. This just emboldens them.

In Hitler's Germany, freedom of speech, disarmamen*t of population*, warrant less searches, the suspension of due process and the killing of citizens by the State became the norm. Our Constituti*on specifical*ly protects us from such a government*. During WWI and WWII many of our Constituti*onal rights were trampled upon. Under the so-called war on terror, US citizens become "people of interests" and as such become targets for State authorized assassinat*ions. These bloodthirs*ty individual*s with no respect for the Constituti*on (until their rights are violated) happily come to the defense of the State. It is incomprehe*nsible.

Obviously Ron Paul is 100% correct. Even if the government says you are a very bad person, they cannot go around bombing and killing US citizens. If they can, where do we draw the line? Who determines what Americans are 'threateni*ng' enough to assassinat*e without a trial? What are the geographic*al limits to this power of assassinat*ion? Can US citizens be assassinat*ed on US soil? What are the disclosure requiremen*ts? Can the government secretly assassinat*e those it considers dangerous?

We either have a Constitution we live by or we don't!

Absolutely, if this guy was so bad why not an indictment or now that he is dead how about some proof of the allegations. The Obama administration went as far as denying his father request to have his son represented by the ACLU.
This pervasive mind set that believes without question everything that the Government proclaims and, which is aided by an ever subservient press who act more like stenographers than reporters is dangerous.
For some it might be difficult to accept that this guy had Constitutional rights and when it becomes a question between what the Government says and what the Constitution requires for, me the Constitution wins hands down.
From Thomas Jefferson: “In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief with the chains of the Constitution“). That's the oath the take to upheld let them be responsible to it.

Here is an interesting exchange between Jake Tapper and Jay Carney that illustrates the attitude of He is a terrorist because we say he is and we don't even have to show proof.

http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2011/09/jake-tapper-vs.-jay-carney-on-preside

Ken Bora
10-04-2011, 08:36 AM
I was a bit disappointed that the Cain interview on Hannity was so short. Coulter got more time. I was also disappointed that while watching I missed Painters touchdown pass. And then bummed when the Buccaneers went on to win. Man first quarter no huddle they looked like the Colts. Ah Well. I did like the old video of Cain responding to Clinton, that was cool.
 
.

LokiMeister
10-04-2011, 08:41 AM
Well, whoever wins the election, will at least be better than who we've got now. I think Reagan is proof that the conservative way of things work far better than liberal ones. And I think Obama is proof that liberal ones DON'T.

I like that Clinton left us with a $300 mill budget surplus (which Bush promptly got rid of). I didn't like much else he did, but he did something very important, showed us that we can limit spending and still have a good economy.

road kill
10-04-2011, 08:45 AM
I like that Clinton left us with a $300 mill budget surplus (which Bush promptly got rid of). I didn't like much else he did, but he did something very important, showed us that we can limit spending and still have a good economy.


Page 5---Blame it on Bush!!!:cool:


RK

LokiMeister
10-04-2011, 08:53 AM
Page 5---Blame it on Bush!!!:cool:


RK

Not sure what you are saying.

huntinman
10-04-2011, 09:06 AM
I like that Clinton left us with a $300 mill budget surplus (which Bush promptly got rid of). I didn't like much else he did, but he did something very important, showed us that we can limit spending and still have a good economy.

Clinton didn't have all that much to do with it... Republicans controlled congress and therefore the budget during most of his presidency. Clinton had to go along to get along.

LokiMeister
10-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Clinton didn't have all that much to do with it... Republicans controlled congress and therefore the budget during most of his presidency. Clinton had to go along to get along.

Without Clinton, it would have never gotten done. He was the catalyst.

THEN, your buddy Bush blew it out of the water within 100 days.

road kill
10-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Without Clinton, it would have never gotten done. He was the catalyst.

THEN, your buddy Bush blew it out of the water within 100 days.


And YOUR buddy, Obama, is pouring gas on that fire!!!;-)

Thanks......


RK

LokiMeister
10-04-2011, 09:29 AM
And YOUR buddy, Obama, is pouring gas on that fire!!!;-)

Thanks......


RK

Obama 2012!!!!!!!!!! Spend, spend, spend!!!!!!!!!!!

M&K's Retrievers
10-04-2011, 10:15 AM
Herman Cain for President.
We agree on almost every issue.
I have read his positions, I have heard him speak, I have watched him respond to smarmy jerks interviewing him.....he is my guy.

I sent $100 to his campaign.:rolleyes:
(paltry, but I am not rich)
I am all in with this guy.

http://www.hermancain.com/h

Look for yourself!!

stan b

Not me. Not yet.

Uncle Bill
10-04-2011, 11:51 AM
In the late Paul Harvey jargon...The Rest of The Story! UB


Cain Climbs Down, Says He Now Accept’s Perry’s Explanation For “Niggerhead” Rock
Rob Port • October 3, 2011


Over the weekend the Washington Post broke a non-story about a ranch leased by Texas Governor Rick Perry and his family that had been named “Niggerhead” before they took control. The name was painted on a rock, and the Perry family painted over it and turned it over to obscure the name back in the 1980′s shortly after leasing the property.

But on Sunday one of Perry’s opponents in the GOP nomination race, Herman Cain, was asked about the issue and chose to make some political hay. “[F]or him to leave it there as long as he did, until before, I hear, they finally painted over it, is just plain insensitive to a lot of black people in this country,” said Cain.

Now the issue seems to be blowing up in Cain’s face a bit, and he’s backing down from his earlier criticism claiming he never meant to criticize the Perry family over the rock.

Speaking outside Trump Tower today, Herman Cain dismissed the idea that he was trying to paint Rick Perry as a racist by having called Perry “insensitive” yesterday when asked about the “[N-word]head” rock on property Perry had leased.

“All I said was the mere fact that that word was there was ‘insensitive.’” Cain responded. “That’s not playing the race card. I am not attacking Gov. Perry. Some people in the media want to attack him. I’m done with that issue!”

The Perry campaign says that the rock was painted over years ago.

Cain asked reporters to focus on “what’s important to the American people” rather than “beat this distraction to death about a word that appeared on a rock.”

“I really don’t care about that word,” Cain added. “They painted over it. End of story! I accept Gov. Perry’s response on that.”

Cain clearly drew the ire of conservatives for going along with what is widely seen as an unfair hatchet job from the liberal media and is now backing down. Rather than criticizing Perry, Cain should have pointed out that there are more pertinent criticisms to make of Perry and that this is a non-issue.

Instead, he engaged in a bit of opportunism.

Cue the narrative from the left about how Cain is afraid to speak up as an independent black man to the racist in the Repbulican party, etc., etc. Which, of course, isn’t true at all. Cain miscalculated, and I hope it doesn’t hurt him too badly because I’m enjoying his resurgence in the nomination race.

Gerry Clinchy
10-04-2011, 12:40 PM
And if Cain got more information after the original question was posed, maybe he did the honorable thing? It's been so long since any politician admitted to an honest error we don't know how to deal with it? After all, he didn't call Perry a racist, he said the word was "insensitive". Geez ... which one of us might not have said the same thing? Also not necessarily indicting Perry (or his family) as racist.

Agree ... there are more important things to talk about.

Gerry Clinchy
10-04-2011, 06:20 PM
Christie announced again today that he would not run.

One of the talk show hosts speculated that he had kept "flirting" since it was raising funds for the Republicans since there is an election in NJ in November.

JDogger
10-04-2011, 08:56 PM
Page 5---Blame it on Bush!!!:cool:


RK

Page one... Blame it on the secular progressives, blame it on Obama. Let's make sure we blame it on anyone but ourselves.

But....we ourselves are to blame for everything we might be unhappy about.

We live in country where we have the ability to change our government regularly through the ballots we cast, rather than through violent upheaval. Yet, we continue to vote for, and send back to Washington, the most inept and self-serving.

The game of politics is being played out. If we stay focused on partisan squabbling we miss the picture.

We are owned. Miss that, and you miss the picture. JD

kjrice
10-04-2011, 11:27 PM
Christie announced again today that he would not run.

One of the talk show hosts speculated that he had kept "flirting" since it was raising funds for the Republicans since there is an election in NJ in November.
Good because any gun control nazi like Christie is not a true conservative.

Gerry Clinchy
10-05-2011, 07:51 PM
Palin has announced that she's not running either.

Franco
10-05-2011, 10:23 PM
Palin has announced that she's not running either.



It's looking like the GOP nomination will come down to the status quo (Romney), the angry black man (Cain) and Sen. Dr Ron Paul.;-)

M&K's Retrievers
10-05-2011, 10:52 PM
It's looking like the GOP nomination will come down to the status quo (Romney), the angry black man (Cain) and the angry old man Sen. Dr Ron Paul.;-)

fixed it for you

Franco
10-05-2011, 10:54 PM
fixed it for you



Words of wisdom from the brain-dead extreme right.

huntinman
10-06-2011, 08:06 AM
Franco, you need to put your bong down and get some fresh air. When have you ever seen Herman Cain angry? Seems like one of the most likeable, jovial people one could ever meet.

You just want to attack anyone that gets traction that doesn't happen to be Ron Paul. We all know you are going to ride that spaceship till the bitter end, so hang on and enjoy the ride. You just make yourself look like more of a Ron Paul loony by constantly attacking all the other candidates as angy, extreme or whatever. If you let your head clear a little and look at your own guy, you may come to a different conclusion.

road kill
10-06-2011, 08:15 AM
Page one... Blame it on the secular progressives, blame it on Obama. Let's make sure we blame it on anyone but ourselves.

But....we ourselves are to blame for everything we might be unhappy about.

We live in country where we have the ability to change our government regularly through the ballots we cast, rather than through violent upheaval. Yet, we continue to vote for, and send back to Washington, the most inept and self-serving.

The game of politics is being played out. If we stay focused on partisan squabbling we miss the picture.

We are owned. Miss that, and you miss the picture. JD

WTH are you talking about?
I didn't blame anyone, I pointed out that in the progressive play book blaming Bush is page 5.

p. 1: Race card
p. 2: Victim card
p. 3: Hate the rich
p. 4: "he started it!!"
p. 5: Blame Bush

There is more, you have the book, look it up!!:D


RK

Franco
10-06-2011, 09:00 AM
Awared, "Tax Payers Hero" !

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/10/04/ron-paul-named-‘taxpayer-hero’-for-111th-congress/

LokiMeister
10-06-2011, 09:13 AM
Franco, you need to put your bong down and get some fresh air. When have you ever seen Herman Cain angry? Seems like one of the most likeable, jovial people one could ever meet.

You just want to attack anyone that gets traction that doesn't happen to be Ron Paul. We all know you are going to ride that spaceship till the bitter end, so hang on and enjoy the ride. You just make yourself look like more of a Ron Paul loony by constantly attacking all the other candidates as angy, extreme or whatever. If you let your head clear a little and look at your own guy, you may come to a different conclusion.

The problem with everybody but RP is that they don't provide any answers nor do they provide any different viewpoints that are valid. If you want the same old, same old, vote for Perry, Cain, Romney, Obama, H. Clinton, etc. That's what you are going to get. More BS and more spending. There are fundamental differences between Bush and Obama, but they are closer than you think. Both of them have the spend, spend, spend attitude.

You might want to put down the firewater and realize this. Going with the status quo changes nothing, we continue down the same path.

LokiMeister
10-06-2011, 09:14 AM
WTH are you talking about?
I didn't blame anyone, I pointed out that in the progressive play book blaming Bush is page 5.

p. 1: Race card
p. 2: Victim card
p. 3: Hate the rich
p. 4: "he started it!!"
p. 5: Blame Bush

There is more, you have the book, look it up!!:D


RK

WHAT book are you talking about?

road kill
10-06-2011, 09:24 AM
WHAT book are you talking about?


The "Progressive Playbook.":D


RK

LokiMeister
10-06-2011, 09:30 AM
The "Progressive Playbook.":D


RK

Can't get any further left that that site, holly $%^&.

Gerry Clinchy
10-06-2011, 07:06 PM
Much as I like Cain, there is a chink in the armor. During his tenure and Godfather's Pizza, covering the period when it was owned by Pillsbury & after Cain & other executives bought it from Pillsbury, Godfather's Pizza dropped in sales and market position. Nobody has asked this question of Cain yet.

Franco
10-12-2011, 05:55 AM
Much as I like Cain, there is a chink in the armor. During his tenure and Godfather's Pizza, covering the period when it was owned by Pillsbury & after Cain & other executives bought it from Pillsbury, Godfather's Pizza dropped in sales and market position. Nobody has asked this question of Cain yet.

Watching last night's debate, Cain reminded me of Attorney Johnny Cochran, very slick. When Cain was asked last night who he thought was the most effective head of the Federal Reserve, Cain said, "Alan Greenspan"!!!

If anyone is responsible for the economic bubble, the dereguation of Credit Default Swaps it was Greenspan.

Tells me how little Cain knows about the world's financial system and how we got into the financial mes we are in. "Cain worked for Paulson and during 2007 Paulson had foreseen the collapse of the sub-prime housing market and hired Goldman Sachs to package their sub-prime holdings into derivatives and sell them. Economic commentators blamed this collapse on Greenspan's policies while at the Fed."

He is a video of Cain defending the Federal Reserve against being audited.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q18jMzTWJ9A

Hew
10-12-2011, 06:17 AM
Again with the relentless tearing down of everyone running for the GOP nomination against Ron Paul?!? I guess I shouldn't give a hoot/expect anything different since you're not going to vote for any Republican for president other than Ron Paul anyway...just like the Perotistas and their foaming-at-the-mouth, all-or-nothing fanatacism that secured the election of Clinton.

huntinman
10-12-2011, 07:58 AM
Again with the relentless tearing down of everyone running for the GOP nomination against Ron Paul?!? I guess I shouldn't give a hoot/expect anything different since you're not going to vote for any Republican for president other than Ron Paul anyway...just like the Perotistas and their foaming-at-the-mouth, all-or-nothing fanatacism that secured the election of Clinton.

He'll be home sitting on his hands which is the same as casting a vote for Obama.

Franco
10-12-2011, 08:02 AM
Again with the relentless tearing down of everyone running for the GOP nomination against Ron Paul?!? I guess I shouldn't give a hoot/expect anything different since you're not going to vote for any Republican for president other than Ron Paul anyway...just like the Perotistas and their foaming-at-the-mouth, all-or-nothing fanatacism that secured the election of Clinton.

Wrong again!

I actually like Rick Santorum and Jon Huntsmans too;-)

I view Herman Cain as being part of the problem with his support of the Fed and support for the Wall St bailouts! Afterall, he is a part of the Wall St mob. Besides the fact that he is clueless when it comes to Foreign Policy. His 999 plan is a gimmickey simple talking point with no substance.

huntinman
10-12-2011, 08:05 AM
Wrong again!

I actually like Rick Santorum and Jon Huntsmans too;-)

I view Herman Cain as being part of the problem with his support of the Fed and support for the Wall St bailouts! Afterall, he is a part of the Wall St mob. Besides the fact that he is clueless when it comes to Foreign Policy. His 999 plan is a gimmickey simple talking point with no substance.

Oh...and Ron paul really has this foreign Policy thing down, huh? What part of Iran and Nukes do you think is a good idea?

road kill
10-12-2011, 08:14 AM
Oh...and Ron paul really has this foreign Policy thing down, huh? What part of Iran and Nukes do you think is a good idea?
Iran hasn't done anything to us.......OH.....wait......


RK

Hew
10-12-2011, 08:34 AM
Wrong again!

I actually like Rick Santorum and Jon Huntsmans too;-)

My apologies.

Santorum?!? WTF?!? He's the darling of the religious right that you dislike so much. You're an enigma, my friend.

Franco
10-12-2011, 08:40 AM
My apologies.

Santorum?!? WTF?!? He's the darling of the religious right that you dislike so much. You're an enigma, my friend.

I don't care for his social policies but I veiw the economy has being our most serious problem and all other issues taking a back seat. Even Dr Ron Paul is Pro Life but I support him the most because he is the only one offering workable solutions.

Santorum was only one of three candidates in the GOP field that didn't support the Wall St payoffs/bailouts. He is also of a Balanced Budget Amendment and I don't think he would grow the size to the Federal Government like Cain, Backmann and Perry would do.

Added note, I think the cheap shots taken at Huntsman and Romney by Perry for being Mormans is unAmerican!

Hew
10-12-2011, 08:50 AM
Added note, I think the cheap shots taken at Huntsman and Romney by Perry for being Mormans is unAmerican!
Now you're back to foaming-at-the-mouth, unfounded crazyiness in order to disparage a non-Ron Paul candidate. Please name one Perry cheap shot vs. Romney or Huntsman. But you said shotS, so I'll give you extra credit if you can come up with two cheap shots that Perry has made towards Romney or Hunstmen.

ps...I thought you were the strict constitutionalist. Since when does voicing an opinion about a religion constitute being "un-American?" Ron Paul's 1st Ammendment rights allow him to give credence to 9/11 truther nonsense but Perry can't comment on Mormonism?

Franco
10-12-2011, 09:02 AM
Now you're back to foaming-at-the-mouth, unfounded crazyiness in order to disparage a non-Ron Paul candidate. Please name one Perry cheap shot vs. Romney or Huntsman. But you said shotS, so I'll give you extra credit if you can come up with two cheap shots that Perry has made towards Romney or Hunstmen.

ps...I thought you were the strict constitutionalist. Since when does voicing an opinion about a religion constitute being "un-American?" Ron Paul's 1st Ammendment rights allow him to give credence to 9/11 truther nonsense but Perry can't comment on Mormonism?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/8816694/Mitt-Romneys-Mormon-faith-attacked-by-Rick-Perry-supporter-as-cult.html

An attack on the Mormon Faith by Perry's supporters and choosen Preacher and not condemed by Perry.

Yes, as Americans we have a right to voice our opinions. But, as a politician running for POTUS, it demonstrates just how intollerant Perry is of others beliefs.

Hew
10-12-2011, 09:33 AM
An attack on the Mormon Faith by Perry's supporters and choosen Preacher and not condemed by Perry. LMAO. That's the totality of proof of your previous claim that Perry was un-American and took cheap shotS at Mormonism?!? Really? You're as much of a loose cannon as Ron Paul. But I suppose you blaming Perry for what a preacher said is the American Way? Btw, Perry swiftly repudiated what the preacher said and proclaimed that he doesn't think Mormonism is a cult.

Yes, as Americans we have a right to voice our opinions. But, as a politician running for POTUS, it demonstrates just how intollerant Perry is of others beliefs. Doubling down on "intollerant" nonsense? Stay away from Vegas or Biloxi.

.................

Franco
10-12-2011, 11:44 AM
Perry disagreed with the preacher only after several days had passed and was taking heat for not stepping up and addressing the issue.

This is what our founders believed and that's why when they crafted The Constitution they said there would not be a religious test.

Blackstone
10-12-2011, 01:18 PM
Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone discuss how they feel about Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan. What are your thoughts?

LokiMeister
10-12-2011, 01:23 PM
Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone discuss how they feel about Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan. What are your thoughts?

It's a good start but it is revenue neutral and the Dems won't like it because it doesn't make the rich pay more. I don't understand why someone should pay more in taxes because they make more. The only answer I have ever gotten is "they don't need all that money."

Franco
10-12-2011, 02:02 PM
Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone discuss how they feel about Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan. What are your thoughts?

Michelle Bachmann is correct on this one; It is the devil in disguise. I don't know if she is that crazy to believe 999 turned upside is the devil or if she is that clever in seeing through the falicy of the 999plan.

9 percent personal income tax on paychecks
9 percent consumption tax on everything we buy – basically a federal sales tax
9 percent corporate tax or business profitsI am OK with the across the board 9% on income tax only if everyone pays.

A 9% Consumption tax would be a real burden on those living day to day because it would include all food/groceries. Also, this tax would kill what is left of the housing market in most parts of the country. I for one know that if I had to pay 9% more for everything that I would buy much less.

9% on buisness profits is revenue neutral. But, it won't stop companies from moving thier HQ's abroad because of the anti-buisness regs, cost of labor which includes higher health insurance cost to employers. A better solution would be to end corporate welfare and close the loopholes.

I would implement the 9% across the board income tax and throw the other two out!

P S

What will it do to the auto/truck market if consumers have to pay 9% more for a vehicle? How will I be able to afford a new CNG Powered pick 'em up truck?

Hew
10-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Perry disagreed with the preacher only after several days had passed and was taking heat for not stepping up and addressing the issue.
THat's just patently untrue. If you're gonna slur somebody as "un-American" I think you have an obligation to have your facts straight...or even close would be ok, too. :rolleyes:



Hours after a Perry supporter categorized the Mormon religion as a “cult,” Texas Gov. Rick Perry said he does not hold the same view.

Asked if he thought Mormonism was a cult as he walked out of the Jefferson County BBQ in Tifflin, Iowa, Perry said, “No, I already answered that.”

Earlier in the day, a Perry supporter, Robert Jeffress, pastor of a Baptist megachurch in Dallas, told reporters at the Values Voters Summit in Washington, D.C., that Mormonism was a “cult,” though he did not mention Republican presidential frontrunner Mitt Romney, a Mormon, by name (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/mitt-romney-on-mormon-critic-poisonous-language-doesnt-advance-our-cause/).

that's ABC News story, btw

road kill
10-12-2011, 02:37 PM
I like Cain more now than I did.

I have seen nothing from him I don't like.
Especially that the progressives are telling me how awful he is.

RK

LokiMeister
10-12-2011, 02:44 PM
Especially that the progressives are telling me how awful he is.

RK

Now there's a GREAT reason to vote for someone. Why not just vote against all the incumbents?

LokiMeister
10-12-2011, 02:46 PM
Michelle Bachmann is correct on this one; It is the devil in disguise. I don't know if she is that crazy to believe 999 turned upside is the devil or if she is that clever in seeing through the falicy of the 999plan.


9 percent personal income tax on paychecks
9 percent consumption tax on everything we buy – basically a federal sales tax
9 percent corporate tax or business profitsI am OK with the across the board 9% on income tax only if everyone pays.

A 9% Consumption tax would be a real burden on those living day to day because it would include all food/groceries. Also, this tax would kill what is left of the housing market in most parts of the country. I for one know that if I had to pay 9% more for everything that I would buy much less.

9% on buisness profits is revenue neutral. But, it won't stop companies from moving thier HQ's abroad because of the anti-buisness regs and cost of labor. A better solution would be to end corporate welfare and close the loopholes.

I would implement the 9% across the board income tax and throw the other two out!

Most people would see an increase in their take home pay so you would have even more money to spend, thereby increasing tax revenues

Ending corporate welfare and closing loopholes will move HQ's faster. And actually they don't need to move HQ's, they just need to leave the money out of the USA to avoid paying taxes on it.

The national debt would quadruple in a couple years if you just implemented the 9% income tax.

road kill
10-12-2011, 02:50 PM
Now there's a GREAT reason to vote for someone. Why not just vote against all the incumbents?

It's a better reeason than what the progressives used to vote for Obama!!!!!;-)



RK

LokiMeister
10-12-2011, 03:09 PM
It's a better reeason than what the progressives used to vote for Obama!!!!!;-)



RK

And what was that?

huntinman
10-12-2011, 03:12 PM
Now there's a GREAT reason to vote for someone. Why not just vote against all the incumbents?

We will... all the Dem incumbents...

road kill
10-12-2011, 03:14 PM
And what was that?

What was your reason??

Hate???


Just askin'........



RK

huntinman
10-12-2011, 03:14 PM
And what was that?

Here is your answer!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

LokiMeister
10-12-2011, 03:20 PM
What was your reason??

Hate???


Just askin'........



RK

I wrote in Ron Paul.

Franco
10-12-2011, 03:20 PM
Most people would see an increase in their take home pay so you would have even more money to spend, thereby increasing tax revenues

Ending corporate welfare and closing loopholes will move HQ's faster. And actually they don't need to move HQ's, they just need to leave the money out of the USA to avoid paying taxes on it.

The national debt would quadruple in a couple years if you just implemented the 9% income tax.

I would throw the other two out and continue with taxing corporate profits!

Corporations leaving profits out of the USA is a loophole! That needs to be closed.

Just because someone is paying less in personal income taxes doesn't mean they will spend more. I wouldn't spend more especially if I am paying 9% more for everything.

LokiMeister
10-12-2011, 03:34 PM
I would throw the other two out and continue with taxing corporate profits!

Corporations leaving profits out of the USA is a loophole! That needs to be closed.

Just because someone is paying less in personal income taxes doesn't mean they will spend more. I wouldn't spend more especially if I am paying 9% more for everything.

How can profits made in another country be a loophole? The US Gov't shouldn't have the authority to tax income made in another country, no matter where they are based. As a Constitutionalist, you should know that.

I disagree. People will see the increase in take home pay, feel richer, and will probably spend the same if not more. They will simply have more money to spend.

Franco
10-12-2011, 04:12 PM
How can profits made in another country be a loophole? The US Gov't shouldn't have the authority to tax income made in another country, no matter where they are based. As a Constitutionalist, you should know that.

I disagree. People will see the increase in take home pay, feel richer, and will probably spend the same if not more. They will simply have more money to spend.

That is the controversy now with companies like GE. If their HQ is in the USA, then they owe the USA taxes, doesn't matter if they earned that money in Timbuctoo.

LokiMeister
10-12-2011, 04:15 PM
That is the controversy now with companies like GE. If their HQ is in the USA, then they owe the USA taxes, doesn't matter if they earned that money in Timbuctoo.

They owe taxes on income generated in the USA, not outside the country, that would be double taxation.

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2011, 05:36 PM
The best thing that could come from these candidate debates is that this bunch of people would rally round the eventual nominee; and that nominee should propose appointments in their administrations for the others that would suit their particular talents and gifts.

Think Ron Paul got a new make-up person. He looked better than in other debates. He also came across less "grumpy" in this debate.

In the beginning everyone complained that the R candidates were lackluster, but it's turning out that they are quite an interesting group.

Perry might be my least favorite. He may have been governor, but I think Cain could do as well as a leader, even without any government experience. I kind of like Santorum's feistiness for someone at the bottom of the totem poll ,,, pun intended :-)

Gerry Clinchy
10-12-2011, 06:02 PM
My concern with 999 is that it wouldn't stay at 9.

As I understand it, for those who pay their 7% into SS & Medicare, the 9% would mean an additional 2% for "income tax". For those paying 15% income tax on top of the SS/MC that would be a substantial deduction.

For PA where there is already a 6% sales tax, that would then become 15%. Whew! that's a whopper. In some parts of some states (like Philadelphia & Pittsburgh in PA), the municipalities add an additional sales tax (think it's around 1.5% in Philadelphia, but not sure on that #). I think NYC also has an additional sales tax.

This could end up beneficial for the upper end of the middle class, but might surely hurt the lowest income levels who currently pay no income tax, only their SS/MC.

And the worst fear, of course, is that Congress will gradually keep raising the %-age.

It is, important, however, to distinguish this from a VAT ... which is paid at each step in the process of getting a product or service to market. The sales tax is only paid at the retail level. In theory, it should be less hard on the consumer than a VAT.

One thing not mentioned in his tax plan is to allow corporations to bring overseas profits back to the US without taxation at all. The theory is that this will encourage coprorations to do more investment here. That will only be of value to the corporations if the business environment improves for them here. I'd like to know more about how corporate profits are taxed in other countries where these companies choose to operate to see how the other countries compare.

BTW, nobody has mentioned that Gingrich has said he would take a VP position, though didn't mention which candidates he'd consider in that. Cain mentioned in the one debate that he would like Gingrich as his VP. Then maybe Ron Paul for Sec of Treasury :-) Romney/Cain could be an interesting combo as well.

Blackstone
10-12-2011, 11:50 PM
Michelle Bachmann is correct on this one; It is the devil in disguise. I don't know if she is that crazy to believe 999 turned upside is the devil or if she is that clever in seeing through the falicy of the 999plan.

9 percent personal income tax on paychecks
9 percent consumption tax on everything we buy – basically a federal sales tax
9 percent corporate tax or business profitsI am OK with the across the board 9% on income tax only if everyone pays.

A 9% Consumption tax would be a real burden on those living day to day because it would include all food/groceries. Also, this tax would kill what is left of the housing market in most parts of the country. I for one know that if I had to pay 9% more for everything that I would buy much less.

9% on buisness profits is revenue neutral. But, it won't stop companies from moving thier HQ's abroad because of the anti-buisness regs, cost of labor which includes higher health insurance cost to employers. A better solution would be to end corporate welfare and close the loopholes.

I would implement the 9% across the board income tax and throw the other two out!

P S

What will it do to the auto/truck market if consumers have to pay 9% more for a vehicle? How will I be able to afford a new CNG Powered pick 'em up truck?

I have to agree that I have a couple of problems with the 9% consumption tax. First, it would increase the cost of everything to the point where it would make everyday necessities difficult to buy for many people with lower incomes. Decreasing the tax rate on income really won't let them see much more in take home pay. However, increasing everything they buy by 9% would be a huge burden.

Second, I would see Congress gradually raising the tax rate to cover one thing or another, and taxpayers will not get a chance to vote on increases.

Third, I can see it having a detrimental effect on the sale of big ticket items, like houses, cars & boats.

IowaBayDog
10-13-2011, 07:48 AM
Everyone seems to like to nitpik all these new tax plans and point out why they are not PERFECT. No system is perfect, what there real requirement is: "Is it a vast improvement over the current system?"

If we wait for perfect, we will never have reform and the politicians laugh all the way to the bank with the current system that feeds their lobbyist money laundering. The flat rate systems that have no loopholes (Fair tax, Flat tax, 999) all take away the power of the politicians to give out tax break deals to donors. Everyone pays, and everyone pays the same amount. LIKE!

I don't think people realize or have calculated the amount of $$ all those loopholes cost the system now.

road kill
10-13-2011, 07:55 AM
Everyone seems to like to nitpik all these new tax plans and point out why they are not PERFECT. No system is perfect, what there real requirement is: "Is it a vast improvement over the current system?"

If we wait for perfect, we will never have reform and the politicians laugh all the way to the bank with the current system that feeds their lobbyist money laundering. The flat rate systems that have no loopholes (Fair tax, Flat tax, 999) all take away the power of the politicians to give out tax break deals to donors. Everyone pays, and everyone pays the same amount. LIKE!

I don't think people realize or have calculated the amount of $$ all those loopholes cost the system now.
It is easy to tear apart an idea that's out there.
Especially when yours isn't.

I stand by Cain!!!

Franco, what do the latest polls say?
If they had Dr. Paul leading we would be hearing about it.
Who is leading???


RK

Franco
10-13-2011, 08:15 AM
It is easy to tear apart an idea that's out there.
Especially when yours isn't.

I stand by Cain!!!

Franco, what do the latest polls say?
If they had Dr. Paul leading we would be hearing about it.
Who is leading???


RK

Polls say that Cain is the flavor of the month as Perry was last month. Cain's 999 Plan is a disaster and once disected will cause him to fall in the polls!;-)

road kill
10-13-2011, 08:20 AM
Polls say that Cain is the flavor of the month as Perry was last month. Cain's 999 Plan is a disaster and once disected will cause him to fall in the polls!;-)

We shall see.
I don't think he will win the nomination.
I just like that he answers everything straightforward.

The money is behind Romney.
I mean after all, he has that Harvard backgound that matters soooo much.



RK

Franco
10-13-2011, 08:26 AM
We shall see.
I don't think he will win the nomination.
I just like that he answers everything straightforward.

The money is behind Romney.
I mean after all, he has that Harvard backgound that matters soooo much.



RK

Cain seems like a good guy and he is straightforward. I just view him as part of the problem. Anyone that thinks Alan Greenspan was a great head of the Federal Reserve doesn't understand that it was Greenspan's influence on Republican legislatures that wrote the laws degregulating Credit Default Swaps which allowed Wall St bankers to earn billions selling toxic junk to companies like AIG. Then, Cain supported the Wall St bailouts!

Plus, his 99 Plan isn't workable. It will kill most major purchases, things like cars, trucks and homes as well as place a financial burden on those living paycheck to paycheck all the while lowering the tax rates on the most wealthy.

I'm all for lowering taxes on everyone but first we need to cut the wasteful spending!

Blackstone
10-13-2011, 09:07 AM
Polls say that Cain is the flavor of the month as Perry was last month. Cain's 999 Plan is a disaster and once disected will cause him to fall in the polls!;-)

I heard some economists saying that the plan might work. However, it's hard to have much faith in economists. They aren't much more accurate than weathermen.

Blackstone
10-13-2011, 09:17 AM
Everyone seems to like to nitpik all these new tax plans and point out why they are not PERFECT. No system is perfect, what there real requirement is: "Is it a vast improvement over the current system?"

If we wait for perfect, we will never have reform and the politicians laugh all the way to the bank with the current system that feeds their lobbyist money laundering. The flat rate systems that have no loopholes (Fair tax, Flat tax, 999) all take away the power of the politicians to give out tax break deals to donors. Everyone pays, and everyone pays the same amount. LIKE!

I don't think people realize or have calculated the amount of $$ all those loopholes cost the system now.

I don't think it's nit-picking to point out concerns about the such a plan. You are correct that no system is perfect, but if you see what appear to be major flaws, they need to be addressed and explained.

I think Cain would have a hard time getting his tax plan approved as presented. I think it will lose the support of those that stand to pay taxes on income that was previously sheltered. I think he would be forced to include some loopholes, and I think those loopholes would grow over time. But, people like me, would be stuck paying the full 9%. Just my opinion.

LokiMeister
10-13-2011, 09:18 AM
Oh, it will work, but if it is revenue neutral it is stupid to do. I mean what is really the point? All we are really doing is spending money to change the way we collect taxes.

I would be more in favor of a 17% flat tax across the board.

IowaBayDog
10-13-2011, 11:07 AM
Oh, it will work, but if it is revenue neutral it is stupid to do. I mean what is really the point? All we are really doing is spending money to change the way we collect taxes.

I would be more in favor of a 17% flat tax across the board.


I like the flat tax as well. It does not capture tax from those not claiming income though, like drug dealers trust fund brats etc. Those good at hiding income still circumvent taxes. With 999 those folks at least will get hit with the sales tax portion.

Politicians won't pass any of these reforms because it cuts into their power structure. We need a non-politician type like Cain to speerhead something like this or it will never happen. It needs to come with a provision that requires a 2/3 majority vote to change the rates though.

LokiMeister
10-13-2011, 11:14 AM
I like the flat tax as well. It does not capture tax from those not claiming income though, like drug dealers trust fund brats etc. Those good at hiding income still circumvent taxes. With 999 those folks at least will get hit with the sales tax portion.

Politicians won't pass any of these reforms because it cuts into their power structure. We need a non-politician type like Cain to speerhead something like this or it will never happen. It needs to come with a provision that requires a 2/3 majority vote to change the rates though.

I would be in favor of eliminating income taxes for non-businesses and just going with a national sales tax.

Gerry Clinchy
10-13-2011, 03:10 PM
Wouldn't an "income tax" like 999 plan ALL income, even from the trust funds & capital gains ... just treating all income as income, period?

Many states already have sales tax on cars, etc. Still sell a lot of cars.

Not sure that owner-occupied, residential real estate should be included. But, if so, to be consistent, there would also have to be a sales tax on rent. As far as I know there is no sales tax on rent, either business or commercial in our state. Anywhere else?


MA used to have an excise tax on cars, payable every year. People bought a lot of used cars in MA! It was like paying a sales tax on the car every year, even though you'd bought it two years before. Don't know if MA still has that tax or not.

Interesting questions come to my mind: Family of 4 on food stamps, Medicaid, earning $20,000/year ... do they pay tax on the food stamps & Medicaid as income? Or do you balance that "additional income" against the tax due for the earned income? Even with a "simple" taxation plan, there will be some policy questions.

Interesting that Cain's economic advisor would be an ordinary accountant ... but accountants probably understand the tax system better than the legislators & bureaucrats :-)

LokiMeister
10-13-2011, 03:13 PM
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/13/8304334-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan-is-simple-youll-simply-pay-more

Oh, well maybe it isn't such a good idea...

IowaBayDog
10-13-2011, 04:54 PM
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/13/8304334-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan-is-simple-youll-simply-pay-more

Oh, well maybe it isn't such a good idea...


Most if not all will pay more, that is a reality. If we are going to increase tax revenue to pay off all this stinking debt we will have to pay more. The 47% that pay zero will pay more, those using tax loopholes to avoid taxes will pay more, etc..