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zeus3925
10-12-2011, 12:15 PM
During the last budget round in Minnesota, there was a hue and cry about the state being broke and not in a position to raise taxes. Now comes Zigy and Viking Purple hoard taxing the citizenry without a vote on the matter. Where is the Tea Party outrage. now?

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/131515763.html

Franco
10-12-2011, 01:52 PM
If you didn't have the Vikings, the city and state would be out over half a billion a year in various revenues.

Forget the people the team employes directly, the people in support throughout the community is in the thousands. From food processors to vendors, hotel and motel taxes, tourist and thier consumption, police and city workers needed for security and clean up, taxes on merchandize, the list goes on an on. That is why NFL teams can blackmail government, they know how much money they bring into the community.

In New Orleans, our NFL team is worth almost a billion a year because the hotels are very expensive and the fine dining restaurants are full after home games. The state use to shell out 18 million a year to the Saints in tribute. Now with the Mercedes Benz Super Dome paying that annual fee, it's a wash!

zeus3925
10-12-2011, 04:31 PM
Well Franco, would you go about building a Ford or GM plant with public money because it provides jobs and businesses in the local community? Of course, not. The Vikings and the NFL are business enterprises and the government has no business building a stadium for them. At the end of the day, when the cheers die away the games have little or no effect in the way the world turns.

huntinman
10-12-2011, 04:47 PM
Well Franco, would you go about building a Ford or GM plant with public money because it provides jobs and businesses in the local community? Of course, not. The Vikings and the NFL are business enterprises and the government has no business building a stadium for them. At the end of the day, when the cheers die away the games have little or no effect in the way the world turns.

No, but Obama would prop GM and Chysler up with public money... in fact he did!

road kill
10-12-2011, 04:55 PM
No, but Obama would prop GM and Chysler up with public money... in fact he did!
He was more interested in the Union and the MONEY they contribute to his campaign than the actual company!!!


An old saying,"as GM goes so goes America."

Ask your Dad.

Still holds true.:oops:



RK

dixidawg
10-12-2011, 05:01 PM
Well Franco, would you go about building a Ford or GM plant with public money because it provides jobs and businesses in the local community? Of course, not. The Vikings and the NFL are business enterprises and the government has no business building a stadium for them. At the end of the day, when the cheers die away the games have little or no effect in the way the world turns.


Agree. Surprisingly enough, Mass made Bob Kraft put up his own money for the new stadium in Foxboro for the Patriots, and he is still making money hand over fist.

Franco
10-12-2011, 09:05 PM
Well Franco, would you go about building a Ford or GM plant with public money because it provides jobs and businesses in the local community? Of course, not. The Vikings and the NFL are business enterprises and the government has no business building a stadium for them. At the end of the day, when the cheers die away the games have little or no effect in the way the world turns.

Big difference between bailing out the UAW and keeping a cash cow that could pack a couple of moving fans and disappear in the middle of the night. NFL teams create cash for municapalities whereas the UAW sucks it up. NFL teams represent a status cities and states cash in on. For the few million in cash tribute to the ownership (what's a couple of million in today's world?), they keep this icon of the region. Not like 60 plus billion in the case of the UAW bailout, 40 of which the tax payer is still on the hook for in the form of stock.

zeus3925
10-13-2011, 06:34 AM
Big difference between bailing out the UAW and keeping a cash cow that could pack a couple of moving fans and disappear in the middle of the night. NFL teams create cash for municapalities whereas the UAW sucks it up. NFL teams represent a status cities and states cash in on. For the few million in cash tribute to the ownership (what's a couple of million in today's world?), they keep this icon of the region. Not like 60 plus billion in the case of the UAW bailout, 40 of which the tax payer is still on the hook for in the form of stock.

I don't know where this anti-union bullroar comes from. The companies were bailed out not the union. In fact the union had to make some deep concessions before the bailout to GM and Chrysler could occur. Those companies provide durable goods and employment on a much grander scale than the NFL. And if the NFL generates so much cash, why don't they provide their own facility like every other company?

If the Vikings, are going to get a new stadium in Arden Hills a $100 million in infrastructure will be constructed at taxpayer expense. There are no restaurants or hotels in the area. Of course, Zigy Wilf could make a bundle providing those.

Out of this project, the Vikings will get a jock palace where they pay no rent, get all the revenue from concessions and advertising, and the taxpayer gets the bill. To add insult to injury, a tax increase is being foisted on the citizenry to support without of the approval of a public vote. At least the taxpayers got GM stock for resale later, far more than they are getting out of stadium deal.

This is reverse Robinhood in its finest form.

Franco
10-13-2011, 08:36 AM
I don't know where this anti-union bullroar comes from. The companies were bailed out not the union. In fact the union had to make some deep concessions before the bailout to GM and Chrysler could occur. Those companies provide durable goods and employment on a much grander scale than the NFL. And if the NFL generates so much cash, why don't they provide their own facility like every other company?

If the Vikings, are going to get a new stadium in Arden Hills a $100 million in infrastructure will be constructed at taxpayer expense. There are no restaurants or hotels in the area. Of course, Zigy Wilf could make a bundle providing those.

Out of this project, the Vikings will get a jock palace where they pay no rent, get all the revenue from concessions and advertising, and the taxpayer gets the bill. To add insult to injury, a tax increase is being foisted on the citizenry to support without of the approval of a public vote. At least the taxpayers got GM stock for resale later, far more than they are getting out of stadium deal.

This is reverse Robinhood in its finest form.

We will have to agree to disagree.

It would be a very sad day for the people of Minnesota if they lost the Vikings. Football is America's passion!

Besides, the NFC North needs more teams with domed stadiums;-) It makes for better viewing at home. They should look at the new stadiums built by the Giants and Cowboys and then, one up them by buiding something grander.

P S

The Mercedes Benz Super Dome just finished a 500million renovation and it is spectacular.

huntinman
10-13-2011, 08:43 AM
]I don't know where this anti-union bullroar comes from. [/B] The companies were bailed out not the union. In fact the union had to make some deep concessions before the bailout to GM and Chrysler could occur.

.

You don't? Try this on for size...:rolleyes:


'Insane' even by Illinois standards? Union official to get $500,000 in pensions
Joint investigation by Chicago Tribune and WGN-TV finds at least eight labor leaders stand to get pensions from both the city and union for the same time period

A labor leader in Chicago is expected to receive pension payments of nearly $500,000 a year, while another could get about $438,000 a year, according to reports Wednesday.

..The Chicago Tribune and WGN-TV, which obtained information about union pension benefits during a joint investigation, said at least eight union officials in Chicago were eligible for what were described as inflated city pensions on top of union pensions for the same period of employment.

The news organizations said this was due to "a charitable interpretation" of Illinois law by officials representing two city pension funds.

"Can you name any place in the world where someone can get two pensions for the same job?" state Rep. Tom Cross, a Republican, told the paper. "Even by our standards here in Illinois, it's beyond belief. It's insane."

Chicago and Illinois are facing financial trouble, in part due to pension shortfalls.

On Tuesday, state Sen. Mark Kirk released a report on Illinois' debt that said it had the worst credit rating of any state and that its debt was rising, NBC Chicago reported.

Kirk said the state was nearly insolvent and said he doubted there would be any help from Washington.

."It's highly unlikely that the federal government would ever bail out a spend-thrift state. Therefore, Illinois needs to fix this on its own," he said.

Amid the city's financial woes, Mayor Rahm Emanuel has reportedly proposed a budget that would see three of Chicago's oldest police stations closed. The budget was due to be unveiled Wednesday.

$9 million over lifetime?
The Tribune said the official who was expected to get about $438,000 a year would do so from three pensions covering the same work period: a city laborers fund, a union district council fund and a national union fund.

It said an analysis showed that this 59-year-old union official, Liberato "Al" Naimoli, would get a total of about $9 million if he lived to his expected lifespan.

Another official, Charles LoVerde III, a former trustee of the city laborers' pension fund, stood to receive three pensions for the same time period totaling nearly $500,000 a year, the investigation found.

The Tribune said he took leave of absence in 1998 from a job with the city's water management department, which paid $44,000 a year, to work full time for the local.

The paper said the law states that union leaders with city pensions cannot "receive credit in any pension plan established by the local labor organization based on his employment by the organization."

But pension fund officials say a union district council is not a local labor organization, the paper said.

"The Legislature never told us how to administer this thing," the city pension fund directors' attorney, Fredrick Heiss, told the paper. "They could have said 'no second pension at all,' but they didn't say that."

The Tribune said the joint investigation with WGN-TV found that Naimoli, president of Cement Workers Local 76, was receiving a city pension of about $158,000 a year. It said his city pension was based on his union salary.

Naimoli, who retired in 2010 from the $15,000-a-year city job, is also now eligible to receive a pension of about $60,000 a year, the paper said, from the Laborers' Pension Fund for Chicago and Vicinity.

He also will become eligible for payments of about $220,000 a year from a third pension, provided by the national union, LIUNA, on his 60th birthday next year.

The Tribune said he had not worked his $15,000-a-year job with the city for a quarter of a century.

Related: Ex-labor chief's 1-day rehire nets $158,000 city pension

NBC News contributed to this report.

zeus3925
10-13-2011, 11:48 AM
What does that have to do about public money for jock palaces, Huntingman. Zip!

You don't have to look hard for corruption in Chicago. I personally had to wring some nipples to get pension money for clients out of Chicago unions. But, Chicago is not the example that fits all. Most unions are on the up and up.

If the stadium is built you can very well count on it being built by union workers. That is the way things are done in Minnesota.

zeus3925
10-13-2011, 12:09 PM
We will have to agree to disagree.

It would be a very sad day for the people of Minnesota if they lost the Vikings. Football is America's passion!

Besides, the NFC North needs more teams with domed stadiums;-) It makes for better viewing at home. They should look at the new stadiums built by the Giants and Cowboys and then, one up them by building something grander.

P S

The Mercedes Benz Super Dome just finished a 500million renovation and it is spectacular.

Football a fun diversion, it is true. But, if you don't want the public to vote on the taxes and you don't want to set up a plan to reimburse the public contribution, build the facility with private money.

huntinman
10-13-2011, 12:21 PM
What does that have to do about public money for jock palaces, Huntingman. Zip!

You don't have to look hard for corruption in Chicago. I personally had to wring some nipples to get pension money for clients out of Chicago unions. But, Chicago is not the example that fits all. Most unions are on the up and up.

If the stadium is built you can very well count on it being built by union workers. That is the way things are done in Minnesota.

You said you didn't understand all the anti-union bullroar (your words). Just trying to help...

zeus3925
10-13-2011, 03:06 PM
You said you didn't understand all the anti-union bullroar (your words). Just trying to help...

Oky-Doke. Thanks!

Mike Smith
10-13-2011, 03:38 PM
Let me get this straight? A kid's game is holding the state hostage and can tax at will. Football may a passion but feeding your family is a priority.


Out of this project, the Vikings will get a jock palace where they pay no rent, get all the revenue from concessions and advertising, and the taxpayer gets the bill. To add insult to injury, a tax increase is being foisted on the citizenry to support without of the approval of a public vote.

And they are protesting about Wall Street???