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Nate_C
10-12-2011, 08:06 PM
Hey I just found out that I am not a Christian. We at least according to Robert Jeffress. I guess me and Mitt don't count. I watches him on hardball today try to back track and say he didn't mean that it was that kind of cult you know the kind in Webster's dictionary? So if I get this straight his definitions are:

Christians - people that believe just like me
Cult - everyone else

At the end of the day, Mr. Romney will learn that you cannot suck up to conservative Christian because you will never get into there little club unless you believe, look, act, talk....ect.. just like them. They just tolerate us Mormons for now because we are further down on there list of people to get rid of then homosexuals and liberals.

BonMallari
10-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Nate; I used to buy into the Mormon stereotype too because that's how I was taught as a kid....but in the last couple of years I have been exposed to different types of Mormons, both while my brother had his practice in the SLC area and also thru my ever increasing Mormon friends...I am embarrassed that I didnt know any better back when..would I ever convert..NO...but they are not a cult and yes you are a Christian

caryalsobrook
10-12-2011, 08:53 PM
Hey I just found out that I am not a Christian. We at least according to Robert Jeffress. I guess me and Mitt don't count. I watches him on hardball today try to back track and say he didn't mean that it was that kind of cult you know the kind in Webster's dictionary? So if I get this straight his definitions are:

Christians - people that believe just like me
Cult - everyone else

At the end of the day, Mr. Romney will learn that you cannot suck up to conservative Christian because you will never get into there little club unless you believe, look, act, talk....ect.. just like them. They just tolerate us Mormons for now because we are further down on there list of people to get rid of then homosexuals and liberals.
Nate, don't let Jeffreys get to you. I would not be surprised if he said I am not a Christian and I am a Methodist. I have heard Romney and Oren Hatch for that matter and would not have a clue as to their religion had I not been told.

I would also say than never, never associate the two words "conservative" and "Christian". One certainly does not imply the other. I am a conservative because I believe in the most limited governmant possible. I am a Christian and Methodist because I was born one and have seen no reason to change. Has I been born Morman,Jew or other I also probably would have had no reason to change.

Franco
10-12-2011, 08:55 PM
Hey I just found out that I am not a Christian. We at least according to Robert Jeffress. I guess me and Mitt don't count. I watches him on hardball today try to back track and say he didn't mean that it was that kind of cult you know the kind in Webster's dictionary? So if I get this straight his definitions are:

Christians - people that believe just like me
Cult - everyone else

At the end of the day, Mr. Romney will learn that you cannot suck up to conservative Christian because you will never get into there little club unless you believe, look, act, talk....ect.. just like them. They just tolerate us Mormons for now because we are further down on there list of people to get rid of then homosexuals and liberals.


You could add a lot to the their list like;

Catholics
Democrats
African Americans
Jews
Atheist
any other sect of Christianity than theirs


to name a few;-)

Hew
10-12-2011, 10:36 PM
[quote=Nate_C;865274 At the end of the day, Mr. Romney will learn that you cannot suck up to conservative Christian because you will never get into there little club unless you believe, look, act, talk....ect.. just like them. They just tolerate us Mormons for now because we are further down on there list of people to get rid of then homosexuals and liberals.[/quote]

Good grief...yeah, let's pretend that that preacher speaks for every conservative Christian. (there's no enough eye rolly smiley doodads to insert here)

Nate...for someone who claims to be right of center and to "hate" Obama like the rest of us supposedly do, you sure author a lot of butt-hurt posts about how mean, dumb, or hypocritical Republicans and conservatives are. I'm just sayin'....

Hew
10-12-2011, 10:38 PM
You could add a lot to the their list like;

Catholics
Democrats
African Americans
Jews
Atheist
any other sect of Christianity than theirs


to name a few;-)
Haven't you already falsely slurred enough Christians today with your make believe stories about Perry?

Nate_C
10-12-2011, 11:04 PM
Good grief...yeah, let's pretend that that preacher speaks for every conservative Christian. (there's no enough eye rolly smiley doodads to insert here)

Nate...for someone who claims to be right of center and to "hate" Obama like the rest of us supposedly do, you sure author a lot of butt-hurt posts about how mean, dumb, or hypocritical Republicans and conservatives are. I'm just sayin'....

I am not butt hurt by what this willfully ignorant person has to say. Just to hear him talk about it makes me laugh. His argument for why Mormons are not Christians makes absolutely no since at all. But the reality is that being anything other a traditional protestant makes it very difficult to win a republican nomination, particularly in the south. The far right Christian conservative movement will not accept anyone of other faiths. I mean Jeffress said this at the Values voters Summit that has just about everyone that is anyone in that area and not one person call him out.

PS I am just right of center. Very right on economic issues but a centrist on social issues.

Hew
10-12-2011, 11:09 PM
[quote=Nate_C;865408 But the reality is that being anything other a traditional protestant makes it very difficult to win a republican nomination, particularly in the south. The far right Christian conservative movement will not accept anyone of other faiths.[/quote]

Intuitively I would disagree, but would certainly entertain some examples of non-Protestant GOP'ers who had their run for the nomination derailed in the South by the Christian conservative movement.

caryalsobrook
10-13-2011, 12:05 AM
I am not butt hurt by what this willfully ignorant person has to say. Just to hear him talk about it makes me laugh. His argument for why Mormons are not Christians makes absolutely no since at all. But the reality is that being anything other a traditional protestant makes it very difficult to win a republican nomination, particularly in the south. The far right Christian conservative movement will not accept anyone of other faiths. I mean Jeffress said this at the Values voters Summit that has just about everyone that is anyone in that area and not one person call him out.

PS I am just right of center. Very right on economic issues but a centrist on social issues.
BS Watch Romney get the nomination and watch him carry the south completely. Your bias and ignorance comes out when you sopeak of the South.

zeus3925
10-13-2011, 07:17 AM
I am not a Mormon. But, I am proud to have spoken out in the '80's against a major anti- Mormon attack launched by some evangelical "Christians". That kind of bigotry and ignorance has no place in America.

Pete
10-13-2011, 08:17 AM
I think some one need tso define "christian" There is your definition and there is Gods definition.

Some catholics are christian and some are not.
some mormans are christian and some are not.
ect ect ect

Sitting in a pue on sunday morning does not make you a christian,,, Unless you can find in the bible where it says it does.:)


by the way,,, I will never ,not in my life time anyway,,,vote for a muslem,,,I don't care how great a christian he is.;-) We'll leave that decision for the next generation.

Pete

Franco
10-13-2011, 08:19 AM
Intuitively I would disagree, but would certainly entertain some examples of non-Protestant GOP'ers who had their run for the nomination derailed in the South by the Christian conservative movement.

There aren't enough of them outside of Texas, Mississippi and Alabama to make a difference in elections.

It is the same religious intolerance that we see among radical Islam.

Oh, and I forgot to add Scientist to my list.

caryalsobrook
10-13-2011, 08:52 AM
There aren't enough of them outside of Texas, Mississippi and Alabama to make a difference in elections.

It is the same religious intolerance that we see among radical Islam.

Oh, and I forgot to add Scientist to my list.

I believe that Richard Nixon was a Quaker and probably carried allthe states you mention. I for one would not even attempt to define the differences beetween Quaker and Mormon. Actually, I never cared and suspect not many know the difference. When It comes to this election, if Romney is the nominee then I will vote for him and I could care less what his religion is. I will also predict he will carry all the states you mention.

Franco
10-13-2011, 09:10 AM
I believe that Richard Nixon was a Quaker and probably carried allthe states you mention. I for one would not even attempt to define the differences beetween Quaker and Mormon. Actually, I never cared and suspect not many know the difference. When It comes to this election, if Romney is the nominee then I will vote for him and I could care less what his religion is. I will also predict he will carry all the states you mention.

Of course Romney will carry those states, just look at the anti-Christ he will be running against!
;-)

Nate_C
10-13-2011, 09:25 AM
BS Watch Romney get the nomination and watch him carry the south completely. Your bias and ignorance comes out when you sopeak of the South.

Of course if Romney gets the nomination he will carry the south because he will be running against Obama. He will also most likely win the nomination. I would say he is at least the front runner for now. But that is for the republican nomination. The Republican Party is not simply made up of far right Christian conservatives that vote purely on religion/values. Many are religious but vote for the person who will best meet the needs of the nation. Some will vote for Romney even though they don’t like his religion because they think he has the best chance to beat Obama. Note that I side it is “difficult” rather than impossible.

Also I am from the south born and raised in NC, and have lived in LA, MS and GA. I am neither bias nor ignorant. Are you really going to try to tell me that there isn’t a high percentage of voters in southern states that consider themselves religious value voters where being Mormon or Jewish would make it more difficult to get there vote. Are you really going to say that the south doesn’t have a history of slower acceptance of diversity? Come on.

huntinman
10-13-2011, 10:20 AM
Of course if Romney gets the nomination he will carry the south because he will be running against Obama. He will also most likely win the nomination. I would say he is at least the front runner for now. But that is for the republican nomination. The Republican Party is not simply made up of far right Christian conservatives that vote purely on religion/values. Many are religious but vote for the person who will best meet the needs of the nation. Some will vote for Romney even though they don’t like his religion because they think he has the best chance to beat Obama. Note that I side it is “difficult” rather than impossible.

Also I am from the south born and raised in NC, and have lived in LA, MS and GA. I am neither bias nor ignorant. Are you really going to try to tell me that there isn’t a high percentage of voters in southern states that consider themselves religious value voters where being Mormon or Jewish would make it more difficult to get there vote. Are you really going to say that the south doesn’t have a history of slower acceptance of diversity? Come on.

history yes... but get over it already... many of us are Cain Supporters and many in the south voted for the loser in the WH now (with all the religous baggage he has)

caryalsobrook
10-13-2011, 12:24 PM
Of course if Romney gets the nomination he will carry the south because he will be running against Obama. He will also most likely win the nomination. I would say he is at least the front runner for now. But that is for the republican nomination. The Republican Party is not simply made up of far right Christian conservatives that vote purely on religion/values. Many are religious but vote for the person who will best meet the needs of the nation. Some will vote for Romney even though they don’t like his religion because they think he has the best chance to beat Obama. Note that I side it is “difficult” rather than impossible.

Also I am from the south born and raised in NC, and have lived in LA, MS and GA. I am neither bias nor ignorant. Are you really going to try to tell me that there isn’t a high percentage of voters in southern states that consider themselves religious value voters where being Mormon or Jewish would make it more difficult to get there vote. Are you really going to say that the south doesn’t have a history of slower acceptance of diversity? Come on.
There you go again. I too lived and went to college in NC. I grew up and now live in Tenn. I married a girl from MS. AND I ALSO LIVED IN KINGSTON, NY. Nice people there and we had numerous discussions about segregation and racism.

One of the first accusations they maade was that I grew up in segregated neighborhoods. My response was that yes I did but not as segregated as the neighborhoods they grew up in. You have Irish neighborhoods, Polish neighborhoods, Jewish neighborhoods, and black neighborhoods just to name a few. One of my good friends is Wilber Jackson, a black graduate from Virginia Union and you think that strange while we are amused that you don't understand that we are from the same culture. I also dated a German born Jew from Brookyln and boy did that get them up in arms. I had no desire to go into Harlem since that was a segregated neighborhood.

I haven't even tried to name all the segregated neighborhoods I encountered.

Let me be clear, the people I met in NY were basically no different than the people I grew up around. They alsowanted a nice place to raise their kids and a good lifestyle. My nickname was Rebel since only Wilber and I were from the south. The vast majority of people from there were very nice to me. Sure, there were a few that acted like I probably got my first pair of shoes when I came north but they were in the minority. I have fond memories of when I lived there and I believe those that I met have a different picture of the pace where I grew up.

Liberals like to use the term "diversity". When I went to college, there were co-ed schools, women's colleges, and men's college. Liberals saw that now we have only the choice of co-ed colleges. AND THIS WAS DONE IN THE NAME OF DIVERSITY.

Trent Goree
10-14-2011, 08:46 AM
We'll played guys

Uncle Bill
10-20-2011, 04:27 PM
For those wanting to "play-up" religion in politics...get out your history books and look into the days leading up to the first CATHOLIC candidate to take a serious run at the Presidency. The jokes were rampant. Hellsbells, I didn't even know he was running against a QUAKER???

UB

kjrice
10-20-2011, 08:08 PM
Damn those terrible conservatives! According to Who Really Cares? by Arthur Brooks, conservatives give at least 30 percent more to charity; other sources put the figure as high as 100 percent. Decide that liberalism is a hypocrite's religion that, while preaching altruism, encourages its practitioners to outsource their personal obligations to taxpayers and, more effectively, to conservatives who really do practice the altruistic gospel. Sound familiar?

Ken Bora
10-23-2011, 04:13 PM
seems to me, that way back when. Jesus said to Peter "You are my rock and I will build my Church upon you". Then they nailed him to a tree. So Peter went to Rome and started the Church. And so the same guys nailed him to a tree, upside down. Over the centuries many different groups have gone their own way breaking off from the Roman Catholic Church. But for a Methodists or First Baptist or Lutheran, to call a Mormon a cult member? Don't these folk know of whence they came? It's not like Peter knelt at the base of the Cross and prayed "I'm going to be the best Episcopalian You have ever seen".
 
no offence to any Episcopalians, I needed to choose an example and have always liked the way it sounds. But you all get the way I'm drifting???
 
.

maddog58
10-23-2011, 08:49 PM
I can see many don't understand.

cpj
10-24-2011, 12:55 PM
Can anyone explain what, in their opinion, the Pastor said that was in error?

Cody Covey
10-24-2011, 01:55 PM
You must mean other than it being a cult as has already expressed in this thread?

twall
10-24-2011, 02:29 PM
I think it all depends on what your definition of a christian is and who you believe Jesus Christ is. In John 14:6 Jesus said to him "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

To me, a christian is a saved/redeemed/converted believer who has accepted Jesus Christ as their savoir.

I'm not voting for the pastor/priest in chief. I'm voting for who, of those running, I think will be the best commander in chief. Their religious beliefs should impact how they make decisions. That will impact how I vote. The problem arises when they don't vote/lead the way they say they will before being elected!

Tom

maddog58
10-24-2011, 09:50 PM
Jesus is the way ,the truth and the light. Pretty simple.

Pete
10-25-2011, 08:59 AM
Ro 10:8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 8. Barnes Clarke FBN Geneva JFB PNTC RWP TSK Wesley ATSD Chain Easton Fausset ISBE Nave TorreyRo 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 9. Abbott Barnes Burkitt Clarke FBN Geneva JFB PNTC RWP Scofield TSK Wesley ATSD CBC Chain Dividing Easton Fausset ISBE Nave TorreyRo 10:10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation


There you go straight from the rule book. It doesn't say might,,it doesn't say may,,, it doesn't say should,,, it says SHALL

Now if you believe Jesus was a frog and God is a Horseman does that still count?
Pete

road kill
10-25-2011, 09:36 AM
Religion is personal.
Only 2 levels of thought matter.

Mine and Gods.

Anyone want to denigrate that, go right ahead, for you matter not.

Whats in my heart can not be changed by haters.

Worship as you and God see fit.

RK

Ken Bora
10-25-2011, 09:48 AM
......Worship as you and God see fit.

RK

'zactly! God and I agreed many years ago that it was better for both of us for me to be wading through a swamp in the dark thinking about God. Instead of sitting in a Church thinking about wading through a swamp in the dark.
.

BonMallari
10-25-2011, 10:00 AM
Religion is personal.
Only 2 levels of thought matter.

Mine and Gods.

Anyone want to denigrate that, go right ahead, for you matter not.

Whats in my heart can not be changed by haters.

Worship as you and God see fit.

RK

one of the best comments I have ever seen on religion..wish more people thought that way

DSemple
10-25-2011, 04:40 PM
'zactly! God and I agreed many years ago that it was better for both of us for me to be wading through a swamp in the dark thinking about God. Instead of sitting in a Church thinking about wading through a swamp in the dark.
.


Man, what a great line.

Ken Bora
10-25-2011, 09:14 PM
Man, what a great line.


Thank You,
As far as I know it is mine. I have been using it since I was 16. You may use it when ever it fits the moment. No credit necessary. Now I do not want anyone to get me wrong. I love religion. For the first 16 years of my life I attended Mass at our Lady of Mount Carmel Roman Catholic Church in East Charlotte, Vermont. My Dad's second wife was, at the time a practicing Jehovah Witness. I enjoy reading about all religion. I collect different bibles for fun. I am probably the most religious person in my circle of friends. I just choose not to go to church. I love a good religious debate more than anyone. Some fun ones I personally had with my rabbit hunting Beagle owning Monsignor Fredete were. "How many of the Worlds troubles can be blamed on Sarah?" ( Sara was Abrahams wife, old testament) or (And this one I honest to God got scent to the principles office for in 10th grade creative writing class.) "Imagine if Jesus had Met Buddha?" Now you can go off for hours on that one. And lastly if your drinking, and aren't the best theological discussions when your liquored up? "How many civilizations have been ruined in the name of an organized religion???" Gosh the Americas alone will make you cry.
 
.

Pete
10-26-2011, 07:08 AM
"Imagine if Jesus had Met Buddha

Maby the conversation my have started like this.





Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God

I certainly couldn't agree with you more Ken. Religious leaders have caused most of the problems this world has ever seen. This should tell us something about some religeous leaders. It doesn't tell us anything about God just the people who are supposed to be speaking for him. If people want to blame God for something then blame him for giving us freedom of choice.



Pete

Franco
10-26-2011, 08:55 AM
Thank You,
As far as I know it is mine. I have been using it since I was 16. You may use it when ever it fits the moment. No credit necessary. Now I do not want anyone to get me wrong. I love religion. For the first 16 years of my life I attended Mass at our Lady of Mount Carmel Roman Catholic Church in East Charlotte, Vermont. My Dad's second wife was, at the time a practicing Jehovah Witness. I enjoy reading about all religion. I collect different bibles for fun. I am probably the most religious person in my circle of friends. I just choose not to go to church. I love a good religious debate more than anyone. Some fun ones I personally had with my rabbit hunting Beagle owning Monsignor Fredete were. "How many of the Worlds troubles can be blamed on Sarah?" ( Sara was Abrahams wife, old testament) or (And this one I honest to God got scent to the principles office for in 10th grade creative writing class.) "Imagine if Jesus had Met Buddha?" Now you can go off for hours on that one. And lastly if your drinking, and aren't the best theological discussions when your liquored up? "How many civilizations have been ruined in the name of an organized religion???" Gosh the Americas alone will make you cry.
 
.


For that I think one would have to look at Islam and Christianity, the world's two largest dogmatic religions. The two religions of peace would be Hindu amd Budhism.

Unlike Islam and Christianity, Hindus and Budhist view their spiritual leaders as "teachers" and not "gods".

In dogmatic religions, nothing is questioned.

Buddhism is a religion of practice and experience rather than belief. This is a bit hard for some to grasp. In our culture, "religion" is a belief system, and "faith" means accepting those beliefs. But the Buddha taught us to accept no teaching without testing it. Instead of believing in teachings, we practice the teachings to realize the truth of them for ourselves.

Cody Covey
10-26-2011, 12:05 PM
For that I think one would have to look at Islam and Christianity, the world's two largest dogmatic religions. The two religions of peace would be Hindu amd Budhism.

Unlike Islam and Christianity, Hindus and Budhist view their spiritual leaders as "teachers" and not "gods".

In dogmatic religions, nothing is questioned.

Buddhism is a religion of practice and experience rather than belief. This is a bit hard for some to grasp. In our culture, "religion" is a belief system, and "faith" means accepting those beliefs. But the Buddha taught us to accept no teaching without testing it. Instead of believing in teachings, we practice the teachings to realize the truth of them for ourselves.
Now I am not really religious at all but to say that Christians are required to take everything at face value I give you the following quote,

"It is not atheists who get stuck in my craw, but agnostics. Doubt is useful for a while. We must all pass through the garden of Gathsemane. If Christ played with doubt, so must we. If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if He burst out from the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" then surely we are also permitted to doubt. But we must move on. To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation."- Y. Martel

Franco
10-26-2011, 01:15 PM
"It is not atheists who get stuck in my craw, but agnostics. Doubt is useful for a while. We must all pass through the garden of Gathsemane. If Christ played with doubt, so must we. If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if He burst out from the cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" then surely we are also permitted to doubt. But we must move on. To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation."- Y. Martel

I agree that Agnostics are for the most part a wishy-washy crew but, Martel contradicts himself. He is saying that it is alright for even his Christ to have doubt yet Agnostics can't?

Cody Covey
10-26-2011, 03:18 PM
Agnostics choose to take the wishy washy approach forever and subscribe to that as a lifestyle...not the same as doubting and finding God after reading and praying among other things

Franco
10-26-2011, 03:29 PM
Agnostics choose to take the wishy washy approach forever and subscribe to that as a lifestyle...not the same as doubting and finding God after reading and praying among other things

Agnostics are only wishy washy because they can't decide whether there is a god or not but it doesn't effect thier lifestyle! I know some agnostics that are as solid as they come from a U S Navy Captain to a surgeon as well as a couple of civic leaders.

Just because they don't believe in what you do doesn't make them wishy washy;-)

This country was founded by men who believed that we should have tolerance for an individuals beliefs. Again, I have to remind some folks that our most influential founders, men like Jefferson, Paine, Adams were children of "the enlightenment" and were Deist.

Cody Covey
10-26-2011, 04:36 PM
Agnostics are only wishy washy because they can't decide whether there is a god or not but it doesn't effect thier lifestyle! I know some agnostics that are as solid as they come from a U S Navy Captain to a surgeon as well as a couple of civic leaders.

Just because they don't believe in what you do doesn't make them wishy washy;-)

This country was founded by men who believed that we should have tolerance for an individuals beliefs. Again, I have to remind some folks that our most influential founders, men like Jefferson, Paine, Adams were children of "the enlightenment" and were Deist.

Sorry, you misunderstood me, I didn't mean that they were wishy washy with regards to everything. Only as far as their religious lifestyle goes.

HPL
10-26-2011, 10:50 PM
Agnostics choose to take the wishy washy approach forever and subscribe to that as a lifestyle...not the same as doubting and finding God after reading and praying among other things
To begin with, agnosticism says that one can neither PROVE nor DISPROVE the existence of God. Personally, that seems like a perfectly logical statement. Christianity is all about FAITH, not proof. Clearly a smart Agnostic would live as if God does exist, problem is that simply living as if you believe has no real value if you subscribe to the most accepted teachings of Christianity which seem to indicate that you only benefit if you truly believe in your heart and if you have doubts, and if God does exist as an omniscient being He knows that you have doubts and thus you are damned, so if you are not sure in your heart of hearts, you might as well live as if you don't believe. Quite a conundrum, aye? I would posit that there is no need to worry about it. If God does exist one is either saved or damned and there is not a thing to be done about it. Since He knew you from before you were in the womb and since He is omniscient, He knows whether you are a lamb or a goat and if He knows, the die is cast and you are what you are. No reason to worry, the game is fixed. It will end as He designed. (If He exists).

Cody Covey
10-28-2011, 01:04 PM
free will ...a sham????

Regards!!!


Since we are on this topic....Where the hell is Keith. Haven't seen him around lately and he usually crops up at topics like this....

Always enjoy watching him and Franco go rounds :)

HPL
10-28-2011, 09:18 PM
free will ...a sham????

Regards!!!


Well, yes. It would be my position that if there is an all knowing God then pretty much by definition, he knows everything, including whether any individual soul is destined for redemption or damnation. If He knows that, then although you may think you have free will, you will in fact end the way you are destined. Now if He doesn't know all that's a different story, but it would then call into question all the writings that indicate that He is omniscient.