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Franco
10-13-2011, 02:41 PM
Did the idea originated with this video game's 999 Plan?

Kip Katsarelis, a senior producer for Maxis, the company that created the SimCity series, was excited that politicians may be looking to video games for ideas.
"We encourage politicians to continue to look to innovative games like SimCity for inspiration for social and economic change," said Katsarelis. "While we at Maxis and Electronic Arts do not endorse any political candidates or their platforms, it's interesting to see GOP candidate Herman Cain propose a simplified tax system like one we designed for the video game SimCity 4."
Adopting such a simple tax structure, Katsarelis said, would allow fantasy political leaders to focus their energy on infrastructure and national security. "Our game design team thought that an easy to understand taxation system would allow players to focus on building their cities and have fun thwarting giant lizard attacks, rather than be buried by overly complex financial systems."
Rich Lowrie, the Ohio Wells Fargo employee who is the brains behind Cain's plan, did not return a request for comment regarding whether he is a fan of SimCity and looked to the game for inspiration.

Who is Rich Lowrie?

Who is this "Rich Lowery?" Is he an Economics Nobel Laureate? A former high-ranking Federal Reserve official, like Herman Cain himself? Actually, the crack news team at the Spencer Daily Reporter (http://www.spencerdailyreporter.com/story/1752241.html) of Spencer, Iowa reveals him to be Rich Lowrie (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/rich-lowrie/a/74b/805), a wealth management adviser with an accounting degree.

huntinman
10-13-2011, 02:55 PM
Franco, give it up. No matter how much you tear down the other Republican's Rue Paul still has no chance in hell.

Buzz
10-13-2011, 04:52 PM
It was shown that the 999 plan would significantly increase taxes on lower and middle income earners while significantly lowering taxes on upper income earners. It should be very popular because the only tax increase the GOP seems to hate are those on the wealthy while they LOVE increases on those who are not paying their fair share, such as the poor and middle class...

caryalsobrook
10-13-2011, 05:41 PM
It was shown that the 999 plan would significantly increase taxes on lower and middle income earners while significantly lowering taxes on upper income earners. It should be very popular because the only tax increase the GOP seems to hate are those on the wealthy while they LOVE increases on those who are not paying their fair share, such as the poor and middle class...
So you think it fine that over 47% of workers PAY NO INCOME TAXES!!! We have spent trillions of dollars on Johnson's great society programs whose goal was TO ELIMINATE POVERTY!! And look where that got us, the highest poverty rate in over 100 years. Great plan, do more of the same. Let everybody who make less than 1 million a year pay no income taxes. Progressives(liberals, socialists, Marxists take your pick) only want to take more and more of gdp with the carrot that MORE NEED TO RIDE IN THE WAGON AND LET THOSE GREED BASTARDS PULL IT. Only problem as Greece, Spain, and Iceland among others have found out. They wind up with no one pulling it.

road kill
10-13-2011, 05:44 PM
It was shown that the 999 plan would significantly increase taxes on lower and middle income earners while significantly lowering taxes on upper income earners. It should be very popular because the only tax increase the GOP seems to hate are those on the wealthy while they LOVE increases on those who are not paying their fair share, such as the poor and middle class...

That's exactly right Buzz, dead on.

At the meetings all we talk about is how we can screw the elderly and poor people.


Don't you ever get tired of parroting theses lies???

The only people caring about race are race pimps (Jackson, Sharpton).
And the only people with a vested interest in keeping people poor are the poverty pimps (Jackson, Sharpton).

GEEZ!!!!!!


RK

BonMallari
10-13-2011, 05:51 PM
at least Cain has a plan...who else has come up with one besides him...BHO-nope,Romney -not really...Paul- all he has said is eliminate the Fed...tired of the rhetoric and the empty promises...Cain is speaking like a businessman with a plan, not some politician prostituting himself for votes

Franco
10-13-2011, 08:11 PM
I'm all ears, how is 999 a solid plan? What is good about it?;-)

I get the part about I'll be taxed Federally two thirds less. Doesn't mean I'm going to spend more. I already have all the toys I want.

We have an 8% State and city sales tax now.

If we make the 47% pay 9% taxes, are you willing to give them more food stamps?

What part will multi-national corporations pay 9% on?

Do we really want to cut top earners taxes by 66%?

999 Sounds simple but it isn't workable!

Problems need to be fixed at the core. Are we really ready for another 'slogan' campaign, this time from Cain? Entire departments and agencies need elimination. Defense needs an examination of cuts. Trade Policy, Foreign Policy, Domestic Policy; does anyone really want to trust a plan without examination. Hell, Cain can't even elaborate on it!

cotts135
10-14-2011, 06:30 AM
So you think it fine that over 47% of workers PAY NO INCOME TAXES!!! We have spent trillions of dollars on Johnson's great society programs whose goal was TO ELIMINATE POVERTY!! And look where that got us, the highest poverty rate in over 100 years. Great plan, do more of the same. Let everybody who make less than 1 million a year pay no income taxes. Progressives(liberals, socialists, Marxists take your pick) only want to take more and more of gdp with the carrot that MORE NEED TO RIDE IN THE WAGON AND LET THOSE GREED BASTARDS PULL IT. Only problem as Greece, Spain, and Iceland among others have found out. They wind up with no one pulling it.
So for you then I guess it's totally fine that Oil companies are subsidized by the government while seemingly reporting record profits every quarter, or Huge multinationals like GE pay no taxes while exporting jobs to foreign countries.
Yep the poor old rich are the persecuted ones in this society. While they continue to get richer and the gap between the persecuted ones and the middle class widens accompanied by a exploding poverty rate(which have little to do with Johnsons policys) you sit there and bemoan the travesty. that they should have to pay a little more in income taxes. Sorry, I am just not feeling bad for these people and how come they don't seem to be holding up their end of the bargaining by creating all these jobs these wonderful tax cuts were supposed to provide?
Take the money out of politics, Go back to when banks were banks and not casino's, reform the tax code, and stop subsidizing foreign country's with our trade policy. Let's start there and have our politicians responsible for meaningful reform instead of the constant band aid fixes they seem so fond of.

huntinman
10-14-2011, 08:19 AM
So for you then I guess it's totally fine that Oil companies are subsidized by the government while seemingly reporting record profits every quarter, or Huge multinationals like GE pay no taxes while exporting jobs to foreign countries.
Yep the poor old rich are the persecuted ones in this society. While they continue to get richer and the gap between the persecuted ones and the middle class widens accompanied by a exploding poverty rate(which have little to do with Johnsons policys) you sit there and bemoan the travesty. that they should have to pay a little more in income taxes. Sorry, I am just not feeling bad for these people and how come they don't seem to be holding up their end of the bargaining by creating all these jobs these wonderful tax cuts were supposed to provide?
Take the money out of politics, Go back to when banks were banks and not casino's, reform the tax code, and stop subsidizing foreign country's with our trade policy. Let's start there and have our politicians responsible for meaningful reform instead of the constant band aid fixes they seem so fond of.

You need to talk to the libs about GE. Their CEO Immelt is an Obama cronie who is on his so called "jobs board" while shipping how many GE jobs to China? Obama is talking from both ends when he blames the rich... he pals around with these guys... takes millions from them for his campaigns... then talks his crap. get real.

caryalsobrook
10-14-2011, 08:27 AM
So for you then I guess it's totally fine that Oil companies are subsidized by the government while seemingly reporting record profits every quarter, or Huge multinationals like GE pay no taxes while exporting jobs to foreign countries.
Yep the poor old rich are the persecuted ones in this society. While they continue to get richer and the gap between the persecuted ones and the middle class widens accompanied by a exploding poverty rate(which have little to do with Johnsons policys) you sit there and bemoan the travesty. that they should have to pay a little more in income taxes. Sorry, I am just not feeling bad for these people and how come they don't seem to be holding up their end of the bargaining by creating all these jobs these wonderful tax cuts were supposed to provide?
Take the money out of politics, Go back to when banks were banks and not casino's, reform the tax code, and stop subsidizing foreign country's with our trade policy. Let's start there and have our politicians responsible for meaningful reform instead of the constant band aid fixes they seem so fond of.
The more the gov. attempts income redistribution, the more income disparity there has been. You say the great society program has nothing to do with it? You are wrong. Income disparity has grown wider and wider the more the gov. intervenes. That is the a fact. So your saying that the great society program did not cause the disparity is wrong. I don't make $250,000 a year and never did, and I don't blame those that have for my not making as much as them.

Take Herman Kane for example. He cleaned parking lots, served customers and many other tasks before he became a CEO. I don't envy him. I admire him for the effort he made to get where he is.

There is no finite amount of wealth. Wealth is created so my advice to all is TO GO OUT AND CREATE YOUR OWN WEALTH AND QUIT BITCHING ABOUT THOSE WHO HAVE CREATED THEIR WEALTH. The gov. does not creat opportunity, they only restrict it.

huntinman
10-14-2011, 08:32 AM
The more the gov. attempts income redistribution, the more income disparity there has been. You say the great society program has nothing to do with it? You are wrong. Income disparity has grown wider and wider the more the gov. intervenes. That is the a fact. So your saying that the great society program did not cause the disparity is wrong. I don't make $250,000 a year and never did, and I don't blame those that have for my not making as much as them.

Take Herman Kane for example. He cleaned parking lots, served customers and many other tasks before he became a CEO. I don't envy him. I admire him for the effort he made to get where he is.

There is no finite amount of wealth. Wealth is created so my advice to all is TO GO OUT AND CREATE YOUR OWN WEALTH AND QUIT BITCHING ABOUT THOSE WHO HAVE CREATED THEIR WEALTH. The gov. does not creat opportunity, they only restrict it.


Amen.................!

cotts135
10-14-2011, 12:03 PM
The more the gov. attempts income redistribution, the more income disparity there has been. You say the great society program has nothing to do with it? You are wrong. Income disparity has grown wider and wider the more the gov. intervenes. That is the a fact. So your saying that the great society program did not cause the disparity is wrong. I don't make $250,000 a year and never did, and I don't blame those that have for my not making as much as them.

Take Herman Kane for example. He cleaned parking lots, served customers and many other tasks before he became a CEO. I don't envy him. I admire him for the effort he made to get where he is.

There is no finite amount of wealth. Wealth is created so my advice to all is TO GO OUT AND CREATE YOUR OWN WEALTH AND QUIT BITCHING ABOUT THOSE WHO HAVE CREATED THEIR WEALTH. The gov. does not creat opportunity, they only restrict it.

I agree with you about the government creating an income disparity however you need to reread what I said about Johnsons plan. But something else puzzles me about what you said about the intervention of Government causing income disparity, which I agree with. You imply that they shouldn't intervene at all. Now either you are alright with the status quo or ok with the disparity. Which one?
And you if you think I have a problem with people who have worked hard and created wealth and a good life for themselves your wrong. What I see is that we have a Federal government that is bought and the people with the most money get to do the buying and dictate the terms and they almost always act in their own best interests especially when it comes to corporations, which is not always very compatible with the good of the country. You have to look no further than the repeal of the Glass Steagal act. I am not even concerned who did it just that it was done.

caryalsobrook
10-14-2011, 03:45 PM
I agree with you about the government creating an income disparity however you need to reread what I said about Johnsons plan. But something else puzzles me about what you said about the intervention of Government causing income disparity, which I agree with. You imply that they shouldn't intervene at all. Now either you are alright with the status quo or ok with the disparity. Which one?
And you if you think I have a problem with people who have worked hard and created wealth and a good life for themselves your wrong. What I see is that we have a Federal government that is bought and the people with the most money get to do the buying and dictate the terms and they almost always act in their own best interests especially when it comes to corporations, which is not always very compatible with the good of the country. You have to look no further than the repeal of the Glass Steagal act. I am not even concerned who did it just that it was done.

I read your post as claiming that Johnson's great society had little to do with the exploding poverty rate or the widening disparity between the middle class and the rich. If you think that then you are wrong.

You assume that I am alright with either the status quo or the disparity and again YOU ARE WRONG! It is my belief that the Gov HAS CAUSED THE EXPLODING POVERTY RATE AND THE DISPARITY OF INCOMES!

Let me give you a personal example. I was involved but I was not the issue, the individual was. I had a patient who was totally blind and also had md. He was in college, majoring in math and making straight A's. having a BS in Math, I could not imagine the difficulty he was having to achieve his degree. His primary goal was to graduate and teach at the Tenn. School for the Blind. His motor skills were porr and as a result his ability to brush his teeth was impared, and as a result he needed extensive dental work. My feeling were that if anybody deserved help, he certainly did. I don't know how much work I did for him but that is not the point. I didn't even keep up with it. Well he graduated with almost straight A's. His uncle is a friend of mine so I have had a way to keep up with him and his progress in achieving his goal. kBeing "disabled", he gets money from the gov. Instead of persuing his goal of teaching, he has been convinced that he is better off collecting money from the government and sitting in his appt., playing games on the computer and piddling with music, rather than following through with his goals. Here is a kid with amazing tallant and determination who has been corupted by the gov. I have no doubt that were it not for the gov. he would have been a shining example of what one could accomplish. Had I had it to do over again, would I have spent the time I did to help him? I doubt it.

The gov. is not in the charity business. It is in the rules and regulation business. It does not help people, it enslaves them by making them dependent of it. You free the people from gov. enslavement, some will fail but many more will succeed when they know that there are rewards for success and consequences for bad decisions. Then and only then do you see a vibrant and dynamic society with oportunity to rise and fall on the accomplishments of each.

sandyg
10-14-2011, 04:29 PM
I read your post as claiming that Johnson's great society had little to do with the exploding poverty rate or the widening disparity between the middle class and the rich. If you think that then you are wrong.

You assume that I am alright with either the status quo or the disparity and again YOU ARE WRONG! It is my belief that the Gov HAS CAUSED THE EXPLODING POVERTY RATE AND THE DISPARITY OF INCOMES!

Let me give you a personal example. I was involved but I was not the issue, the individual was. I had a patient who was totally blind and also had md. He was in college, majoring in math and making straight A's. having a BS in Math, I could not imagine the difficulty he was having to achieve his degree. His primary goal was to graduate and teach at the Tenn. School for the Blind. His motor skills were porr and as a result his ability to brush his teeth was impared, and as a result he needed extensive dental work. My feeling were that if anybody deserved help, he certainly did. I don't know how much work I did for him but that is not the point. I didn't even keep up with it. Well he graduated with almost straight A's. His uncle is a friend of mine so I have had a way to keep up with him and his progress in achieving his goal. kBeing "disabled", he gets money from the gov. Instead of persuing his goal of teaching, he has been convinced that he is better off collecting money from the government and sitting in his appt., playing games on the computer and piddling with music, rather than following through with his goals. Here is a kid with amazing tallant and determination who has been corupted by the gov. I have no doubt that were it not for the gov. he would have been a shining example of what one could accomplish. Had I had it to do over again, would I have spent the time I did to help him? I doubt it.

The gov. is not in the charity business. It is in the rules and regulation business. It does not help people, it enslaves them by making them dependent of it. You free the people from gov. enslavement, some will fail but many more will succeed when they know that there are rewards for success and consequences for bad decisions. Then and only then do you see a vibrant and dynamic society with oportunity to rise and fall on the accomplishments of each.

AMEN!!!!

Too bad the people who should THINK about what you said will spend time picking it apart.

huntinman
10-14-2011, 05:35 PM
Cary, don't you know that the Gov't knows what is best for that poor blind man? What was he thinking... trying to go and better himself and maybe even help others? He needs to just listen to the social workers and sit in his room and feel sorry for himself. They will tell him what is good for him... Oh and how to vote too.

Franco
10-15-2011, 07:31 AM
What does any of this discussion have to do with Cain's 999 Plan?

I agree that the government does not creatre wealth for individuals(unless one work's on Wall St since they have bought our government and have been given Carte Blanche to steal by both parties) and the government's solution to a problem is worse than the problem.

So Cary, you think it is OK to make the poor pay a 9% additional sales tax and lower taxes on the rich by 65%?

Cowtown
10-15-2011, 10:49 AM
Give me a break.

There is a reason to create a simplified tax system....because it's fair and simplified.

A fair, simplified system makes sense in the real world and in a sim/economy based video game.

I don't think a sim game with our current tax system would sell many games.

Cowtown
10-15-2011, 10:51 AM
So Cary, you think it is OK to make the poor pay a 9% additional sales tax and lower taxes on the rich by 65%?

Do you think it is fair for someone to be forced to give another person over 2/3 of what they make?

Franco
10-15-2011, 07:30 PM
Do you think it is fair for someone to be forced to give another person over 2/3 of what they make?



Who has to give whom over 2/3 of what they make?

And, just because it is simple doesn't mean it is better. Looks to me like no one can say anything other than "its simple" about 999. Well, it ain't that simple!

luvmylabs23139
10-15-2011, 08:06 PM
Why does anyone who smokes crack, multiplies like a rabbit, blows off school etc. deserve ONE DIME of my hard earned money???
DON"T BREED THEM IF YOU CAN"T FEED THEM!!!!!

caryalsobrook
10-15-2011, 09:49 PM
What does any of this discussion have to do with Cain's 999 Plan?

I agree that the government does not creatre wealth for individuals(unless one work's on Wall St since they have bought our government and have been given Carte Blanche to steal by both parties) and the government's solution to a problem is worse than the problem.

So Cary, you think it is OK to make the poor pay a 9% additional sales tax and lower taxes on the rich by 65%?

First of all Franco, I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the rich will pay 65% less tax. I certainly don't see it that way. Second we have over 45% working who pay no income tax. Second, the more the gov.does in the name of helping the poor, the more poor we have. 9_9_9 guarantees that all who work and consume have skin in the game. In other words, more people are pulling the wagon and less riding in it. Third, it will show the people HOW MUCH THE GOV. TAKES IN TAXES. NO HIDDEN TAXES AND DEDUCTIONS!!! If you think taxes are too high then vote the rascals out!! kCan't people understand that THE GOV. IS NOT IN THE CHARITY BUSINESS. THEY ARE IN THE RULES, REGULATIONS, CONTROL AND DEPENDENCE BUSINESS!! It makes no difference if you are the poor, the middle class, the small business, the corp. or wall street, or main street. If you feel that the gov controls your destiny via taxes, regulations or rules, then you are ultimately dependent on the gov. and as such, a slave to it.

Lobyists did not create the government we have. THE GOV. CREATED THE LOBYISTS!!! Limit the gov. and the lobyists will go away. You implenent this type of plan WITH NO DEDUCTIONS(LOOPHOLES??) and create a dynamic capitolist system that all can participate, succed or fail, reap the rewards of success and the consequences of failure, and eventually we may even see a system where there is noincome tax and as a result NO TAX DEDUCTIONS(LOOPHOLES)

The gov. never levels the playing field, it only controls it.

Franco
10-15-2011, 10:36 PM
First of all Franco, I don't know how you come to the conclusion that the rich will pay 65% less tax. I certainly don't see it that way. Second we have over 45% working who pay no income tax. Second, the more the gov.does in the name of helping the poor, the more poor we have. 9_9_9 guarantees that all who work and consume have skin in the game. In other words, more people are pulling the wagon and less riding in it. Third, it will show the people HOW MUCH THE GOV. TAKES IN TAXES. NO HIDDEN TAXES AND DEDUCTIONS!!! If you think taxes are too high then vote the rascals out!! kCan't people understand that THE GOV. IS NOT IN THE CHARITY BUSINESS. THEY ARE IN THE RULES, REGULATIONS, CONTROL AND DEPENDENCE BUSINESS!! It makes no difference if you are the poor, the middle class, the small business, the corp. or wall street, or main street. If you feel that the gov controls your destiny via taxes, regulations or rules, then you are ultimately dependent on the gov. and as such, a slave to it.

Lobyists did not create the government we have. THE GOV. CREATED THE LOBYISTS!!! Limit the gov. and the lobyists will go away. You implenent this type of plan WITH NO DEDUCTIONS(LOOPHOLES??) and create a dynamic capitolist system that all can participate, succed or fail, reap the rewards of success and the consequences of failure, and eventually we may even see a system where there is noincome tax and as a result NO TAX DEDUCTIONS(LOOPHOLES)

The gov. never levels the playing field, it only controls it.


There are quite a few folks in the 27% tax bracket or higher. If the tax is cut to 9%, that's a 65% tax cut or more. Granted that now we will have an additional 9% sales tax on everything including food, vehicles and homes! It will kill many larger purchases and grow the "cash" transactions for services.

True, the government contols it, which means it can be raised. And, they will raise it becasue it will never go down! A better plan would be to simplify the tax code and eliminated loopholes and certain dedudctions. 999 may rhyme but it won't work across the board.

sandyg
10-16-2011, 03:56 PM
Nothing ever works across the board! There will always be perceived winners and losers. But to think that you can continue to run the government on the backs of the "rich" is ludicrous! It's time to try something completely different, eliminate the lobbyists, and get this country back to work!

As a side note, corporations don't pay taxes, people pay taxes! Increase the corporate tax rate or eliminate deductions and a real live actual person pays! Either the shareholder receives less of a dividend, someone loses their job, the product price goes up, or the quality goes down to make up for the loss in after-tax profit. To get a better understanding of the dynamics involved, read the Fairtax book. You don't have to agree with it but you will think differently after reading it.

Cowtown
10-17-2011, 11:24 AM
Who has to give whom over 2/3 of what they make?

And, just because it is simple doesn't mean it is better. Looks to me like no one can say anything other than "its simple" about 999. Well, it ain't that simple!

Hey you're the one that linked the article as the basis of the 999 plan. In the article it quotes the creator of the game saying Cain's plan is simplified, just like his game.

You want to make the linkage and disparage the plan, now you are wanting to argue a different point?

You can't seem to figure out what argument or point you want to make.

Cowtown
10-17-2011, 11:27 AM
999 may rhyme but it won't work across the board.

999 doesn't rhyme. That's called repetition.

Glad to know we have an economist and taxation expert on the board.

Franco
10-17-2011, 12:34 PM
Hey you're the one that linked the article as the basis of the 999 plan. In the article it quotes the creator of the game saying Cain's plan is simplified, just like his game.

You want to make the linkage and disparage the plan, now you are wanting to argue a different point?

You can't seem to figure out what argument or point you want to make.

You are the one that said the part about taking two-thirds of ones income, not the article. The article only talks about the game Sim City's 999 Plan origins.

You may want to work on your reading comprehension!

I'm not changing any point, the 999 Plan sucks.

Cowtown
10-17-2011, 05:46 PM
You are the one that said the part about taking two-thirds of ones income, not the article. The article only talks about the game Sim City's 999 Plan origins.

You may want to work on your reading comprehension!

I'm not changing any point, the 999 Plan sucks.

haha, moving the goalposts once again? Try for once to stay on topic.

So is your point that Cain got the idea of 999 from a video game or is it that 999 is simplistic or is it now that it sucks?

You seem to be trying to make a lot of points and you can't decide which.

Franco
10-17-2011, 06:39 PM
Do you think it is fair for someone to be forced to give another person over 2/3 of what they make?



Again, who is forced to give 2/3 of what they make to whom?

You are the one dodging questions and I've said all along that the 999 Plan sucks and appears to be taken from a video game!

caryalsobrook
10-17-2011, 08:16 PM
There are quite a few folks in the 27% tax bracket or higher. If the tax is cut to 9%, that's a 65% tax cut or more. Granted that now we will have an additional 9% sales tax on everything including food, vehicles and homes! It will kill many larger purchases and grow the "cash" transactions for services.

True, the government contols it, which means it can be raised. And, they will raise it becasue it will never go down! A better plan would be to simplify the tax code and eliminated loopholes and certain dedudctions. 999 may rhyme but it won't work across the board.

amazing Franco. How in the world do you manage to support Ron Paul??? I haven't heard him talk about his ideal solution on taxes, but I will bet if you asked him, he would say get rid of the income tax completely and go to a sales(consumption) tax. At the very least, set a level(constant %) income tax with no deductions.

One simple question for you. DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN A TAX DEDUCTION AND A TAX LOOPHOLE. I would be very interested in your answer.

Franco
10-17-2011, 08:45 PM
amazing Franco. How in the world do you manage to support Ron Paul??? I haven't heard him talk about his ideal solution on taxes, but I will bet if you asked him, he would say get rid of the income tax completely and go to a sales(consumption) tax. At the very least, set a level(constant %) income tax with no deductions.

One simple question for you. DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN A TAX DEDUCTION AND A TAX LOOPHOLE. I would be very interested in your answer.

A tax loop hole is where one can take advantage of vague language in a tax code. A tax deduction is a deduction allowed by law.

I've said before on RTF that I am open to loking at some form of flat tax. But this 999 thing is just too cute and doesn't work. A 9% Federal Sales Tax won't work for the reasons I've stated previously. Same for the rest of it as I've given reason for previously.

Cowtown
10-17-2011, 08:48 PM
Again, who is forced to give 2/3 of what they make to whom?

You are the one dodging questions and I've said all along that the 999 Plan sucks and appears to be taken from a video game!

I never said you were dodging questions, I said you are moving the goalposts, which you appear to love to do. This is your thread, not mine, try to stick on your own topic.

Back on topic, you haven't stated all along that 999 appears to be taken from a video game...you asked exactly that question in the opening sentence of this thread. Then you provide a quote with what one could think is a reason the 999 plan was taken from a video game but the quote you provide says it is similar because it is a simple, easily understood plan; which you disagree with.

LOL!

Franco
10-17-2011, 08:57 PM
I never said you were dodging questions, I said you are moving the goalposts, which you appear to love to do. This is your thread, not mine, try to stick on your own topic.

Back on topic, you haven't stated all along that 999 appears to be taken from a video game...you asked exactly that question in the opening sentence of this thread. Then you provide a quote with what one could think is a reason the 999 plan was taken from a video game but the quote you provide says it is similar because it is a simple, easily understood plan; which you disagree with.

LOL!

Well, it isn't an easy and simple plan because there are so many variable to look at with what gets taxed and what doesn't. There are no easy and simple solutions. People may want to latch onto someting that sounds simple but the devil is in the details.;-)

9% corporate tax is unrealisticly low. Read what Gov Grover Norquist had to say about the plan.
;-)

Cowtown
10-17-2011, 09:50 PM
Well, it isn't an easy and simple plan because there are so many variable to look at with what gets taxed and what doesn't. There are no easy and simple solutions. People may want to latch onto someting that sounds simple but the devil is in the details.;-)

9% corporate tax is unrealisticly low. Read what Gov Grover Norquist had to say about the plan.
;-)

I"m not arguing for or against Cain or for or against his 999 plan. I'm trying to stick to your original question of this thread about Cain getting the idea from a video game.

Then I find it humorous that you take the opposite position of the quote you provided about the linkage due to it being a simple plan.

If you wanted to discuss Cain or the merits of his plan, then why didn't you start a thread with that title/subject?

Regarding Norquist, he supports corporate tax deductions for certain items such as repatriating foreign profits and for certain equipment purchases. I believe, not certain though, Cain wants to do away with such deductions and reduce the corporate tax rate. So if you do away with the deductions, it isn't necessarily an unrealistically low tax rate...however, I'll admit I'm no tax expert or economist.

Franco
10-17-2011, 10:07 PM
I"m not arguing for or against Cain or for or against his 999 plan. I'm trying to stick to your original question of this thread about Cain getting the idea from a video game.

Then I find it humorous that you take the opposite position of the quote you provided about the linkage due to it being a simple plan.

If you wanted to discuss Cain or the merits of his plan, then why didn't you start a thread with that title/subject?

Regarding Norquist, he supports corporate tax deductions for certain items such as repatriating foreign profits and for certain equipment purchases. I believe, not certain though, Cain wants to do away with such deductions and reduce the corporate tax rate. So if you do away with the deductions, it isn't necessarily an unrealistically low tax rate...however, I'll admit I'm no tax expert or economist.

I'm not aware of many threads that stick directly to topic of thread.;-) They all seem to go off into directions and I actually thought the title would lead to a debate of the 999 Plan.

P S

If I had to bet money, I'd go with "his accountant that came up with the plan and name was familiar with the Sim City video game. The game was designed for account types and other bean counters to play".

Cowtown
10-17-2011, 10:39 PM
I'm not aware of many threads that stick directly to topic of thread.;-) They all seem to go off into directions and I actually thought the title would lead to a debate of the 999 Plan.

P S

If I had to bet money, I'd go with "his accountant that came up with the plan and name was familiar with the Sim City video game. The game was designed for account types and other bean counters to play".

Interesting approach..hoping for an offtopic discussion.

;)

caryalsobrook
10-18-2011, 02:37 AM
A tax loop hole is where one can take advantage of vague language in a tax code. A tax deduction is a deduction allowed by law.

I've said before on RTF that I am open to loking at some form of flat tax. But this 999 thing is just too cute and doesn't work. A 9% Federal Sales Tax won't work for the reasons I've stated previously. Same for the rest of it as I've given reason for previously.
Your differentiation between a tax loophole and a tax deduction is comical. BOTH ARE ALLOWED BY LAW. A tax deduction is one you like and usually can take advantage of. A tax loophole is a deduction you don't like and ususlly can't take advantage of.

Franco
10-18-2011, 06:54 AM
Your differentiation between a tax loophole and a tax deduction is comical. BOTH ARE ALLOWED BY LAW. A tax deduction is one you like and usually can take advantage of. A tax loophole is a deduction you don't like and ususlly can't take advantage of.


It looks like Investopedia is on the same page with me in defining what a loophole is.


http://i.investopedia.com/inv/092009/dictionary/inv_icon.jpg
Investopedia explains Loophole
A person or company utilizing a loophole isn't considered to be breaking the law, but circumventing it in a way that was not intended by the regulators or legislators that put the law or restriction into place. Most loopholes will close in time, as those who have the power to do so rewrite the rules to cut off the opportunity for loophole advantage. Some tax loopholes exist perennially, especially in nations like the United States where the intricate tax code amounts to tens of thousands of pages - which can lead to many opportunitoes for those seeking to exploit it.

caryalsobrook
10-18-2011, 07:30 AM
It looks like Investopedia is on the same page with me in defining what a loophole is.


http://i.investopedia.com/inv/092009/dictionary/inv_icon.jpg
Investopedia explains Loophole
A person or company utilizing a loophole isn't considered to be breaking the law, but circumventing it in a way that was not intended by the regulators or legislators that put the law or restriction into place. Most loopholes will close in time, as those who have the power to do so rewrite the rules to cut off the opportunity for loophole advantage. Some tax loopholes exist perennially, especially in nations like the United States where the intricate tax code amounts to tens of thousands of pages - which can lead to many opportunitoes for those seeking to exploit it.






I don't necessarily disagree with the definition. If you read it, BOTHAARE ALLOWED BY LAW. If they were not then the IRS would dissallow what you call a loophole. The fact that the tax code is 70,000 pages long ought to tell you something. SUCH A TAX SYSTEM IS UNMANAGEABLE. Again YOUR TAX DEDUCTION IS WHAT SOMEONE ELSE CALLS A TAX LOOPHOLE. THEIR TAX DEDUCTION IS WHAT YOU CALL A TAX LOOPHOLE.

kTake a child dependent tax deduction(loophole). Do you think that a couple that either can have no children or chooses to have no children would consider this a tax deduction or a loophole? How about this example. A grandfather who is on dissability adopts his 6 grandchildren. He now gets a child dependent tax deduction and also gets SS dissability for the six children(grandchildren). dON'T WORRY IT IS ENTIRELY LEGAL AND FOLLOWS THE TAX CODE TO THE TEE.

There are at least 70,000 examples in the tax code. How do I know this? Easy, there are 70,000 pages of tax code.

Knowing you suppport Ron Paul, it is hard for me to understand your perception that some but not all deductions(loopholes) are ok when Ron Paul would say that none are ok. By the way, I have not heard him say anything that I would dissagree with. He is very intelligent but has trouble articulating his concepts due to his switching from one idea to another in the same sentence.

If you understand Heerman Cain's plan then you would realize it is a progression away from the income tax completely to a consumption tax. There are two things favorable to such a system. One is that if you consume it, THEN YOU PAY TAX ON IT. Two is that YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH THE GOVERNMENT IS TAXING YOU. If you think the gov. is spending and taxing too much. tHEN THROW THE RASCALS OUT!! No hidden taxes which the consumer ALWAYS PAYS.

sandyg
10-18-2011, 02:31 PM
LOOPHOLE - The taxpayer gets stuck with the bill because Obama says he's not campaigning yet he's photographed holding babies on DRUDGE REPORT.

LOOPHOLE - Michelle and kids fly to Spain along with a plane load of useful idiots under the guise of an official visit when we all know it's a vacation.

DEDUCTION - Obama is toast in 2012.

Not exactly the definitions Franco had in mind but they are a lot closer to the truth than his are.