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Franco
10-17-2011, 04:21 PM
Ron Paul's opinions about cutting the budget are well-known, but on Monday, he got specific: the Texas congressman laid out a budget blueprint for deep and far-reaching cuts to federal spending, including the elimination of five cabinet-level departments and the drawdown of American troops fighting overseas.
There’s even a symbolic readjustment of the president’s own salary to put it in line with the average American salary.





Read more:


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66114.html#ixzz1b2aMmbbo

It’s the only plan offered by a presidential candidate that actually balances the budget and begins to pay down the debt. “And it’s the only plan being offered that tries to reign in the Federal Reserve and get inflation under control.”

Of course, the extreme right won't like this plan because it shrinks the size of the Federal Government!

dback
10-17-2011, 06:03 PM
Of course, the extreme right won't like this plan because it shrinks the size of the Federal Government!



Franco......I don't understand why you constantly do broad brush attacks on the "extreme right". Are there some "extreme right" politicians that quietly want to maintain the status quo? Maybe/probably.......but you make it sound like every Republican/Conservative/Christian/anyone on the right side of the aisle who doesn't support your particular choice, is your hated enemy, even though many in those categories support some if not much of what Paul says. I'm not saying he (personally) has broad base support but much of the platform is supported. At the same time, you couldn't find 1/2 of 1% in the moderate to extreme left that would support him, his policies, his platform or his purposed programs yet you maintain a seemingly endless siege on the "extreme right". I know many who you would consider "extreme right" and not a one wants to maintain the current size of the Fed.......they ALL want it shrunk. It seems to me, your potshots are more out of frustration for his lack of national support rather than actual policy differences.

Franco
10-17-2011, 07:06 PM
Franco......I don't understand why you constantly do broad brush attacks on the "extreme right". Are there some "extreme right" politicians that quietly want to maintain the status quo? Maybe/probably.......but you make it sound like every Republican/Conservative/Christian/anyone on the right side of the aisle who doesn't support your particular choice, is your hated enemy, even though many in those categories support some if not much of what Paul says. Because it gets frustrating when people support candidates and can't state why or articulate why that candidate is worthy. Because something is "simple" doesn't make it valid! We have a real opportunity to change the culture in DC and I see a bunch of unqualified candidates getting attention becuase of cute solutions. Second, the problem when religion enters the politcal dialog, real progress of real issues gets tabled for "social" BS. More BIG government, just a different flavor.
I'm not saying he (personally) has broad base support but much of the platform is supported. At the same time, you couldn't find 1/2 of 1% in the moderate to extreme left that would support him, his policies, his platform or his purposed programs yet you maintain a seemingly endless siege on the "extreme right". The reality is that Ron Paul attracts voters from all segemnts and directions. Even advocates like Ralph Nadar and Dennis Kucinich share Paul's core value of Liberty. A trait not widely found among the extreme right. The same extreme right that hijacked traditional Conservatism. Take Gingrich out of the equation and Ron Paul is more of a traditional Conservative then the lot of them! He has more of an ability to attract moderates and Independents then say; Perry, Gingrich, Bachmann, Cain. Paul is also the most populra Republican candidate among college students. I know many who you would consider "extreme right" and not a one wants to maintain the current size of the Fed.......they ALL want it shrunk. It became "in" for candidates to say so. Do any of them understand what they are saying or just parroting what Ron Paul has been saying for decades? It seems to me, your potshots are more out of frustration for his lack of national support rather than actual policy differences.
Many in the Tea Party are hailing his new plan and 1 trillion in REAL cuts.You can bet the farm that the big money on Wall ST will do all that they can in making sure Ron Paul fails.

I'll have to answer your good questions HEW style since you ask several. My replies in red.

Plan To Restore America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-2Zs0-N1dA&feature=youtu.be

road kill
10-18-2011, 06:21 AM
I just thought I would point out that the majority of students suppoeted Obama in the last election.

So using students to validate your candidate doesn't fly.


Frankly, the way you obsess and post about Paul, I see it as a cult like situation.

It is indeed off putting.

"Extreme right" regards.............




RK

Goose
10-18-2011, 09:21 AM
Greek 1 year government bonds are yielding over 150%. They're done and the haircut's going to be massive. We have a printing press so we're special but there's really no difference between us, the Greeks or any of the other PIIGS in Europe. We're in debt up to our eyeballs. Personally, I think we're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic and that it's too late. The keynesian solution will be a massive world war to help straighten things out. Millions dead and then we start over.

We need to take a flame thrower to spending in this country but it will never be done. Austerity isn't the American way. We'll just keep printing and let somebody else worry about it after the war.

We live in Cuba now.

Gerry Clinchy
10-18-2011, 09:30 AM
One of the big issues for the current President is that he cannot form the coalitions that are needed to accomplish his agenda. Let's set aside, for a moment whether we agree with his agenda or not. He's even managed to sow devisiveness within his own party.

Ron Paul has been in Congress a long time. While I cannot agree with extreme isolationism in world affairs, Paul's ideas about fiscal responsibility extend are valid by themselves. With all these years to form coalitions, why has he not been able to have more impact. If he has not been able to this after so many years, how will he be able to be a unifying force as POTUS?

Clearly, the current President has proven you can bully some things through, but you also create a resistance backlash with that approach.

Whoever the next POTUS will be, he (she) will need to be a unifying leader. Obama has not been such a leader. Could Paul be such a leader? I think he'd be a perfect candidate for Secy of Treasury! He could have very real impact there.

BonMallari
10-18-2011, 11:30 AM
One of the big issues for the current President is that he cannot form the coalitions that are needed to accomplish his agenda. Let's set aside, for a moment whether we agree with his agenda or not. He's even managed to sow devisiveness within his own party.

Ron Paul has been in Congress a long time. While I cannot agree with extreme isolationism in world affairs, Paul's ideas about fiscal responsibility extend are valid by themselves. With all these years to form coalitions, why has he not been able to have more impact. If he has not been able to this after so many years, how will he be able to be a unifying force as POTUS?

Clearly, the current President has proven you can bully some things through, but you also create a resistance backlash with that approach.

Whoever the next POTUS will be, he (she) will need to be a unifying leader. Obama has not been such a leader. Could Paul be such a leader? I think he'd be a perfect candidate for Secy of Treasury! He could have very real impact there.

that because RP is like Kucinich, they are both good at being flame throwers, but bring home the pork to their districts..probably the reason RP has not formed the coalitions or championed major legislation is that he is the type you either love (like Franco) or you like his ideas but think he is one step from being fitted for a straight jacket (me)...

I accidently got into a conversation about RP with a co worker the other night,and it is very evident that he appeals to those that may be fiscal conservatives, but social moderate/liberals,his followers are rabid and enthusiastic but are prone to extreme views not neccessarily held by mainstream society....

Dont know if RP would make a good Sec of Treasury,because as stated above Wall Street would not be receptive to him at all ..would really be ironic for him to be the Fed Chairman or the SEC Chairman

Franco
10-18-2011, 01:02 PM
I just thought I would point out that the majority of students suppoeted Obama in the last election.

So using students to validate your candidate doesn't fly.


Frankly, the way you obsess and post about Paul, I see it as a cult like situation.

It is indeed off putting.

"Extreme right" regards.............




RK

I don't expect the extreme right to support the changes that need to be made. Traditional Conservative, yes. Extreme Right, no.

Franco
10-18-2011, 01:06 PM
One of the big issues for the current President is that he cannot form the coalitions that are needed to accomplish his agenda. Let's set aside, for a moment whether we agree with his agenda or not. He's even managed to sow devisiveness within his own party.

Ron Paul has been in Congress a long time. While I cannot agree with extreme isolationism in world affairs, Paul's ideas about fiscal responsibility extend are valid by themselves. With all these years to form coalitions, why has he not been able to have more impact. If he has not been able to this after so many years, how will he be able to be a unifying force as POTUS?

Clearly, the current President has proven you can bully some things through, but you also create a resistance backlash with that approach.

Whoever the next POTUS will be, he (she) will need to be a unifying leader. Obama has not been such a leader. Could Paul be such a leader? I think he'd be a perfect candidate for Secy of Treasury! He could have very real impact there.

It is difficult to build coalitions when what one is proposing is to turn the entire system on its head. Too difficult to work within the system when the system is dysfunctional. Ron Paul would deliver 'real" change, not just slogans.

I've said before he is not perfect nor do I agree with him on every issue. But, I do agree with him 100% on what I feel are the most important issues facing our country today.

road kill
10-18-2011, 01:30 PM
I don't expect the extreme right to support the changes that need to be made. Traditional Conservative, yes. Extreme Right, no.

The point was, who made you the judge????


I missed the directive, my bad..........


RK

Franco
10-18-2011, 01:36 PM
The point was, who made you the judge????


I missed the directive, my bad..........


RK

The judge of what? This is an opinion board and I try to back my opinions up with dialog.

Care to discuss the cuts Dr Paul is proposing?

I'll be back in 90 minutes;-)

huntinman
10-18-2011, 01:38 PM
The judge of what? This is an opinion board and I try to back my opinions up with dialog.

Care to discuss the cuts Dr Paul is proposing?

I'll be back in 90 minutes;-)

Like cutting a half pound of pot into two quarter lb bags? Thats a cut most Ron Paul supporters can really get behind!

road kill
10-18-2011, 01:54 PM
The judge of what? This is an opinion board and I try to back my opinions up with dialog.

Care to discuss the cuts Dr Paul is proposing?

I'll be back in 90 minutes;-)
You have made negative comments in several posts about the "extreme right."

WTH are you talking about if you don't judge someone to be such??

RK

BonMallari
10-18-2011, 02:30 PM
You have made negative comments in several posts about the "extreme right."

WTH are you talking about if you don't judge someone to be such??

RK

RK: I think he means you, me,huntingman,UB, HEW,sandyg,....if there is one thing that conservatives like to do, its to tell other conservatives that either they are RINOS, or extreme rightists....there is no ONE conservative, and just because we(not looping all of you with me) dont think the same conservative way that Franco does ,that makes us extreme...it also doesnt mean we are any less patriotic either....

we (here on RTF) for the most part are fiscally conservative.....but it really is the social issues that divide us, whether anyone cares to admit it or not

FTR : I am socially moderate/conservative : strong pro life,neutral gay marriage,neutral on marijuana, strong pro 2nd Amendment,anti immigration,anti muslim,...so if those make me extreme right so be it :D

M&K's Retrievers
10-18-2011, 02:38 PM
How can anyone who backs Ron Paul call anyone else extreme?

Just wondering regards, :confused::confused:

huntinman
10-18-2011, 02:41 PM
RK: I think he means you, me,huntingman,UB, HEW,sandyg,....if there is one thing that conservatives like to do, its to tell other conservatives that either they are RINOS, or extreme rightists....there is no ONE conservative, and just because we(not looping all of you with me) dont think the same conservative way that Franco does ,that makes us extreme...it also doesnt mean we are any less patriotic either....

we (here on RTF) for the most part are fiscally conservative.....but it really is the social issues that divide us, whether anyone cares to admit it or not

FTR : I am socially moderate/conservative : strong pro life,neutral gay marriage,neutral on marijuana, strong pro 2nd Amendment,anti illegal immigration,anti radical muslim,...so if those make me extreme right so be it :D

Took the liberty of tweaking it a little for you to say what I think you mean Bon.

BonMallari
10-18-2011, 02:45 PM
Took the liberty of tweaking it a little for you to say what I think you mean Bon.

Thanks that 's exactly what I meant...guess politically correct was overpowering my extreme right side.....but I heel my dog from the left side only FWIW :p.....probably why they dont listen

Franco
10-18-2011, 04:33 PM
RK: I think he means you, me,huntingman,UB, HEW,sandyg,....if there is one thing that conservatives like to do, its to tell other conservatives that either they are RINOS, or extreme rightists....there is no ONE conservative, and just because we(not looping all of you with me) dont think the same conservative way that Franco does ,that makes us extreme...it also doesnt mean we are any less patriotic either....

we (here on RTF) for the most part are fiscally conservative.....but it really is the social issues that divide us, whether anyone cares to admit it or not

FTR : I am socially moderate/conservative : strong pro life,neutral gay marriage,neutral on marijuana, strong pro 2nd Amendment,anti immigration,anti muslim,...so if those make me extreme right so be it :D

Well, not too many Barry Goldwater or Wm F Buckley Jr types on Potus;)

To me, the biggest change in Traditional Conservatism and what is known today as Conservative is the lack of any real Conservative intellectualism as the most vocal Conservatives today are far more dogmatic.

In the 60's Conservatives won folks over with ideas and thought, not Draconian social ideas and infringing on people's Liberties.

Lets don't forget that the Conservative movement of the 60's was born from Libertarian ideals and just look at how far it has moved from the 60's to today.

Where were all the Conservatives when Bush was running TRILLION dollar deficts? Where is the Conservative voice opposing the USA from becoming the world police? The move away from the Gold Standard? The bailouts and handouts? Where since the 60's has the Conservative voice been on illegal immigration? We've had so-called Conservatives since serving as POTUS, one even rewarded illegal behavior by declaring Amnesty.

No, Conservative today doesn't mean what it use to.

BonMallari
10-18-2011, 04:52 PM
Franco, the conservative world of the 60's is not the world of today...the social issues may be draconian to you but in the forefront of someones values today...I am old enough to remember growing up in the late 60's....divorce was a nasty word, wasnt even spoken out loud, heck living together was considered "shacking up" and very frowned upon...now its common place, so not sure your models of Goldwater and WF Buckley hold up in todays society...I mean AuH20 was extreme right in the 60's and might be somewhat moderate by todays standard....WF is in a league all his own,liked him a lot

Marvin S
10-18-2011, 07:03 PM
Well, not too many Barry Goldwater or Wm F Buckley Jr types on Potus;)

Have U read "Conscience of a Conservative"? I read it while you will still being burped on someone's shoulder & believe it to be the best book written by a reasonable candidate. I am also a fan of WFB but believe he was a little too moderate.

One of the things I have learned over the years is that some social things have serious costs, so oppose those because of fiscal reality. Back when Virginia Postrel was the editor of Reason it had a balanced dialogue. When Nick Gillespie assumed the editor's position it became a voice for disenchanted hippies. At that point in time I moved on as it was evident that the looney left had taken over.

Ron Paul is the de facto leader of the looney left but calls himself an R as he would be indistinguishable from Kucinich & McDermott were he on the other side of the aisle. His voting record is that of a fiscal moderate which is not something to brag about. & in the end, ideas are only worthwhile if they can gain traction, hence Herman who sounds somewhat better than RP will also go down in flames. I will not support any candidate that advocates a Value Added or Sales tax - too many opportunities for the loopholes so prevalent in the present tax system :o or :confused: .

Hew
10-18-2011, 08:54 PM
My quotes in bold....


Well, not too many Barry Goldwater or Wm F Buckley Jr types on Potus;) LOL, except you of course. :rolleyes: You don't seem to know much about Buckley and his social positions. And Goldwater, while never big on social issues, only became an anti-religious crank in his late 80's...around the same time as he was professing beliefs in UFOs. He was the walrus...coocoo cachoo. What's your excuse? ;-)

To me, the biggest change in Traditional Conservatism and what is known today as Conservative is the lack of any real Conservative intellectualism as the most vocal Conservatives today are far more dogmatic. That's a very subjective matter of opinion that I won't argue, but do disagree...George Will, Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell, New Gingrich come to top of mind.

In the 60's Conservatives won folks over with ideas and thought, not Draconian social ideas and infringing on people's Liberties. LOL....really? Conservatives didn't win anybody over in the 60s. That's why Goldwater was destroyed....DESTROYED by Johnson and why the GOP was in a near permanent minority in both houses of Congress.

Lets don't forget that the Conservative movement of the 60's was born from Libertarian ideals and just look at how far it has moved from the 60's to today. William F. Buckley, who you give so much credit to, was not hardly a Libertarian. Goldwater, and his desire to fight communism around the world and expand our presence in Viet Nam, was not pimpin' Libertarian ideas much, either. Rather than some fight-in-the-political-trenches idealogues, the Conservative movement of the 50s and 60s was largely populated by get-along-go-along politicians content to sit in obscurity in Congress while the Democrats ran roughshod over them. Country Club Republicans you can have. THey didn't win SH!T for elections. I'll take an idealogue on social and fiscal issues...they JUST WIN, BABY.

Where were all the Conservatives when Bush was running TRILLION dollar deficts? Where is the Conservative voice opposing the USA from becoming the world police? Just like Goldwater, eh? :rolleyes: Pssst...Buckley was also for invading Iraq and only once it looked like we were going to lose, had 2nd thoughts. The move away from the Gold Standard? The bailouts and handouts? Where since the 60's has the Conservative voice been on illegal immigration? We've had so-called Conservatives since serving as POTUS, one even rewarded illegal behavior by declaring Amnesty. Who was it that said deporting illegal immigrants "would prove as wrenching as the uprooting of the blacks from Africa 300 years ago." and that sealing the border was the equivilent of the challenge to land a man on the moon? None other than William F. Buckley in 2006. I guess he's no longer a "true" conservative hero. For shame.

No, Conservative today doesn't mean what it use to. Exactly. Today you get to make up your own definition...and it changes all the time.

Franco
10-18-2011, 09:03 PM
Have U read "Conscience of a Conservative"? I read it while you will still being burped on someone's shoulder & believe it to be the best book written by a reasonable candidate. I am also a fan of WFB but believe he was a little too moderate.

One of the things I have learned over the years is that some social things have serious costs, so oppose those because of fiscal reality. Back when Virginia Postrel was the editor of Reason it had a balanced dialogue. When Nick Gillespie assumed the editor's position it became a voice for disenchanted hippies. At that point in time I moved on as it was evident that the looney left had taken over.

Ron Paul is the de facto leader of the looney left but calls himself an R as he would be indistinguishable from Kucinich & McDermott were he on the other side of the aisle. His voting record is that of a fiscal moderate which is not something to brag about. & in the end, ideas are only worthwhile if they can gain traction, hence Herman who sounds somewhat better than RP will also go down in flames. I will not support any candidate that advocates a Value Added or Sales tax - too many opportunities for the loopholes so prevalent in the present tax system :o or :confused: .

Funny you should ask. I was reading some today on line, Google the book title and you can read it in PDF. It reminded me of James Lamb Free's book because I read them both when they were new releases about the same time. .;-)

I mentioned earlier about about the lack of Conservative Intellectuals. Watching the debate tonight reminded me that Gingrich has moments that fit that bill. Setting RP aside, I'd say that Gringrich, Romney and Santorum did the best tonight in fueling their quest.