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View Full Version : Obama's Death Panel Has Started



Steve Hester
11-06-2011, 08:11 AM
This article pretty well sums it up. This is stupidity at it's best. Get rid of Obama and his ObamaCare!!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2011/11/03/the-department-of-health-and-human-services-death-panel/

M&K's Retrievers
11-06-2011, 09:27 AM
Oh, heck, Steve. This doesn't affect me. Not yet anyway.

Ostrich regards,

mjh345
11-06-2011, 10:24 AM
The politics of fear is alive and well & obviously hasn't been eliminated by any "death panels"

Blackstone
11-06-2011, 04:30 PM
The Department of Health and Human Services has been around since about 1990. Their charge is to evaluate the effectiveness of clinical preventive services, and develop reommendations to primary care doctors. I'm not sure what that has to do with Obama or the new health care plan. Besides, that's just their recommendation. You can still have the test done every year if you want to.

Gerry Clinchy
11-06-2011, 04:41 PM
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/CainNew

Newt referred to this study in the Cain-Gingrich debate. (I watched it on my computer today). The point he made was that none of the members of the "committee" who came up with this recommendation concluded either a urologist or a cancer specialist. They were Phds who evaluated the "statistics".

The issue with these recommendations is that it can determine whether the tests are covered by health insurance or Medicare or Medicaid. So, with Medicare a low-income participant might be less likely to get them done than someone else who can pay for them in cash.

The debate, BTW, was quite interesting. Newt still comes off as the more erudite, but the two of them are much on the same page with solutions.

Both are in favor of unemployment having "requirements" to continue receiving payments, for example.

M&K's Retrievers
11-06-2011, 04:42 PM
The Department of Health and Human Services has been around since about 1990. Their charge is to evaluate the effectiveness of clinical preventive services, and develop reommendations to primary care doctors. I'm not sure what that has to do with Obama or the new health care plan. Besides, that's just their recommendation. You can still have the test done every year if you want to.

You must have missed the ostrich reference.

Blackstone
11-06-2011, 05:29 PM
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/CainNew

Newt referred to this study in the Cain-Gingrich debate. (I watched it on my computer today). The point he made was that none of the members of the "committee" who came up with this recommendation concluded either a urologist or a cancer specialist. They were Phds who evaluated the "statistics".

The issue with these recommendations is that it can determine whether the tests are covered by health insurance or Medicare or Medicaid. So, with Medicare a low-income participant might be less likely to get them done than someone else who can pay for them in cash.

The debate, BTW, was quite interesting. Newt still comes off as the more erudite, but the two of them are much on the same page with solutions.

Both are in favor of unemployment having "requirements" to continue receiving payments, for example.

He was right about the committe not having an Oncologist or Urologist, the all but one member of the board are M.D.s. Only one member is a Ph.D.

Steve Hester
11-06-2011, 06:39 PM
The Department of Health and Human Services has been around since about 1990. Their charge is to evaluate the effectiveness of clinical preventive services, and develop reommendations to primary care doctors. I'm not sure what that has to do with Obama or the new health care plan. Besides, that's just their recommendation. You can still have the test done every year if you want to.

See post # 5. You can bet your prostate and if you have a girlfriend or wife, you can bet her breasts that stupid recommendations like these WILL determine what ObamaCare will and will not pay for. This will be where these kinds of decisions are made.

luvmylabs23139
11-06-2011, 06:53 PM
The Department of Health and Human Services has been around since about 1990. Their charge is to evaluate the effectiveness of clinical preventive services, and develop reommendations to primary care doctors. I'm not sure what that has to do with Obama or the new health care plan. Besides, that's just their recommendation. You can still have the test done every year if you want to.

It should be tossed just like the Dept of EDUCATION. It would save the actual taxpayers a ton of money.

Blackstone
11-07-2011, 10:22 AM
See post # 5. You can bet your prostate and if you have a girlfriend or wife, you can bet her breasts that stupid recommendations like these WILL determine what ObamaCare will and will not pay for. This will be where these kinds of decisions are made.

Why would the decisions made under the new health care plan be any different under than the decisions made by insurance companies about what they would pay for? Like I said, they have been making recommendations on preventive medical care since 1990. You are speculating about what you THINK might happen under Obamaís plan. However, there are plenty of horror stories out there right now about insurance companies that wouldn't pay for tests, medical procedures, and surgeries because they didnít think they were necessary, or because they were too expensive. Whose death panel made those decisions?

road kill
11-07-2011, 10:27 AM
In all fairness "death Panels" all ready exist per se'.

Been there, done that.:(
There is a point where a situation is terminal and insurance will no longer pay for treatment.

It was done honestly, fairly and compassionately.

But it DOES exist!!


stan b

2tall
11-07-2011, 10:57 AM
Why would the decisions made under the new health care plan be any different under than the decisions made by insurance companies about what they would pay for? Like I said, they have been making recommendations on preventive medical care since 1990. You are speculating about what you THINK might happen under Obamaís plan. However, there are plenty of horror stories out there right now about insurance companies that wouldn't pay for tests, medical procedures, and surgeries because they didnít think they were necessary, or because they were too expensive. Whose death panel made those decisions?


In all fairness "death Panels" all ready exist per se'.

Been there, done that.:(
There is a point where a situation is terminal and insurance will no longer pay for treatment.

It was done honestly, fairly and compassionately.

But it DOES exist!!


stan b

Two very good posts! Blackstone, I agree with you completely. When all the folks that think the American Health Care system is great the way it is, what is the difference in screaming about "big government" making your health care decisions and "insurance companies" making your health care decisions? Neither one has a vested interest in assuring the best outcome for you personally in your treatment or lack thereof. I think we would be a lot better off if Dr's were left to make those decisions. I think we would be a lot better off if there were not so many layers of administrators who do nothing to aid patients.

And RK, I understand completely what you wrote. When my father went into Hospice, it was explained to us that none of his medications would be paid for any longer by Medicare or private insurance. That made perfect sense, as the choice had been made to die with dignity at home. Of course the one med he did need at the end, was provided by hospice. But again, it was Dad's and his family's choice, not the insurer or the government.

BonMallari
11-07-2011, 01:54 PM
And RK, I understand completely what you wrote. When my father went into Hospice, it was explained to us that none of his medications would be paid for any longer by Medicare or private insurance. That made perfect sense, as the choice had been made to die with dignity at home. Of course the one med he did need at the end, was provided by hospice. But again, it was Dad's and his family's choice, not the insurer or the government.

Carol : IMHO that is a travesty,for whatever agency or company to discontinue paying for meds for your dad was wrong , ethically, morally, and any other way you describe it..you dad paid more than his fair share in his lifetime...my mother will be 99 at the end of the month, God willing, and luckily her meds are covered by my dad's VA pension and medicare/medicaid...but in you dad's case he deserved those meds to his final days, but yet we give meds and methadone to junkies, illegals and others who dont pay a dime to the system...something is really screwed up in that system, where we as a nation dont take care of our elderly

cripes
11-07-2011, 01:56 PM
There is a point where a situation is terminal and insurance will no longer pay for treatment.


But you can pay out your own pocket if you like. Is this true of obama care also?

road kill
11-07-2011, 02:20 PM
Carol : IMHO that is a travesty,for whatever agency or company to discontinue paying for meds for your dad was wrong , ethically, morally, and any other way you describe it..you dad paid more than his fair share in his lifetime...my mother will be 99 at the end of the month, God willing, and luckily her meds are covered by my dad's VA pension and medicare/medicaid...but in you dad's case he deserved those meds to his final days, but yet we give meds and methadone to junkies, illegals and others who dont pay a dime to the system...something is really screwed up in that system, where we as a nation dont take care of our elderly

They did with my wife.
I lost every asset I had fighting for a few more days.
Chemo is pricey!!!!

They said if I chose to give up no one would know but us 3.
The Chief of staff (I called him the grim reaper) the Nurse Practitioner and me.

I told them I would know, and I don't roll that way.
We fought.

But they were right.
We ultimately lost.

But I answer to no one about the effort!

And life is pretty good again.

But the point is, that was a "death panel."


stan b

BonMallari
11-07-2011, 02:25 PM
There is a point where a situation is terminal and insurance will no longer pay for treatment.


But you can pay out your own pocket if you like. Is this true of obama care also?

but thats kinda my point,when the situation is terminal,I am not talking about trying heroic measures, even though with family consent,the finding that MAY be found with experimental treatment or medicines could possibly save another life down the road...but as a society I just feel that we owe it to our elderly that have paid into the system to take care of them till the end..my.$.02

M&K's Retrievers
11-07-2011, 03:20 PM
This is a very old stat but a few years ago an study (HIAA I think) estimated that 90% of medical expenses were incurred within 12 days of death. This % may be less today due to the huge increase in out patient drugs costs, mandated preventative benefits, co-pays and other mandated benefits.

caryalsobrook
11-07-2011, 04:12 PM
They did with my wife.
I lost every asset I had fighting for a few more days.
Chemo is pricey!!!!

They said if I chose to give up no one would know but us 3.
The Chief of staff (I called him the grim reaper) the Nurse Practitioner and me.

I told them I would know, and I don't roll that way.
We fought.

But they were right.
We ultimately lost.

But I answer to no one about the effort!

And life is pretty good again.

But the point is, that was a "death panel."


stan b

Probably the most difficult situation one in health care must deal with. Should I tell a patient that they will probably die before I can finish their dental treatment? Should I tell their family for that matter? Should I keep quiet, provide treatement knowing I will neer finish restorative work and just take the money? Shuld I just continue treatment and mark off any debt at the time of death? Actually I have done all of the above at one time or another. Hopefully I dealt with the patient and family compassionately and was is some way helpful in their decisions. Simply, you do the best you can and hope it is satisfactory, but you will always question your decisions. Never the less, to me it is much better than some bureaucrat making those decisions.

YOU made the dicision to continue treatment and that is as it should be. You are proff that YOU made the decision and not the gov. or the insurance companies and that is it should be.