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M&K's Retrievers
11-07-2011, 10:52 PM
Who would you vote for today?

M&K's Retrievers
11-07-2011, 10:56 PM
I never thought I say it but right now it's Newt.

BonMallari
11-07-2011, 11:04 PM
Not going to change horses in the middle of the stream, I will stay with Cain, until the Republican convention gives me a party candidate that I can support in the general election

bbmclain
11-07-2011, 11:15 PM
Cain/Gingrich would make a great pair that would turn this country around and back to prosperous times!!!!!

Gerry Clinchy
11-08-2011, 09:08 AM
Cain/Gingrich would make a great pair that would turn this country around and back to prosperous times!!!!!

This could also be the way such a ticket should be structured.

We've come to view the position of VP as simply a political stepping stone to be POTUS later. However, the VP nominees seem to be, today, more a way to secure certain portions of the popular vote (Palin?) than how well suited they are for actually becoming President.

I looked up the duties of the VP in Wikipedia for some clarification. While the VP is "President of the Senate", aside from being able to cast a deciding vote if there is a tie vote, he has little impact.

It is in the "informal" duties that a VP can make himself felt:



The extent of any informal roles and functions of the Vice President depend on the specific relationship between the President and the Vice President, but often include tasks such as drafter and spokesperson for the administration's policies, adviser to the President, and being a symbol of American concern or support. (OMG! Biden as a "drafter & spokesperson for administration policies".)

The influence of the Vice President in this role depends almost entirely on the characteristics of the particular administration. Dick Cheney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney), for instance, was widely regarded as one of President George W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush)'s closest confidants.Al Gore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore) was an important adviser to President Bill Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton) on matters of foreign policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy) and the environment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_policy). (Oh, boy, so that's how we started down this path?)

Often, Vice Presidents will take harder-line stands on issues to ensure the support of the party's base while deflecting partisan criticism away from the President. (Seems a little bit different in this administration. I think a lot of people simply "dismiss" Biden as non-essential.)


Under the American system the President is both head of state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_state) and head of government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_government), and the ceremonial duties of the former position are often delegated to the Vice President. The Vice President may meet with other heads of state or attend state funerals in other countries, at times when the administration wishes to demonstrate concern or support but cannot send the President himself.

Not all Vice Presidents are happy in their jobs. John Nance Garner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nance_Garner), who served as Vice President from 1933 to 1941 under President Franklin D. Roosevelt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt), claimed that the Vice Presidency "isn't worth a pitcher of warm piss."[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#cite_note-14)(I think that Newt as a VP could change that perception; especially because he has an historian's perspective.)

Other statutorily granted roles include membership of both the National Security Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Security_Council) and the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian_Institution).


It could be very interesting to have Newt as a VP as "drafter & spokesperson for administration policies".

Ron Paul, right now, says that he won't run as an I, but also says he doesn't support any of the other candidates. This is bad news for the Rs if Paul would rather see the Ds hold the Oval Office for another 4 years. Since the numbers & devotion of Paul's following cannot be discounted, it would be a shame

If he could reach a meeting of the minds with a Cain/Newt ticket, and be offered a position in such an administration where he could actually make some headway on his (Paul's) agenda for fiscal responsibility that would be a great step forward for the country. I have the same distaste for "PC" as many others, but there is something to be said for "catching more flies with honey than vinegar," and Paul comes off as mostly vinegar to me ... even though I do respect his opinions and goals. His demeanor may not be right for a POTUS, but his ideas & integrity could be valued by a Cain/Newt ticket.

Franco
11-08-2011, 09:26 AM
This could also be the way such a ticket should be structured.

We've come to view the position of VP as simply a political stepping stone to be POTUS later. However, the VP nominees seem to be, today, more a way to secure certain portions of the popular vote (Palin?) than how well suited they are for actually becoming President.

I looked up the duties of the VP in Wikipedia for some clarification. While the VP is "President of the Senate", aside from being able to cast a deciding vote if there is a tie vote, he has little impact.

It is in the "informal" duties that a VP can make himself felt:



It could be very interesting to have Newt as a VP as "drafter & spokesperson for administration policies".

Ron Paul, right now, says that he won't run as an I, but also says he doesn't support any of the other candidates. This is bad news for the Rs if Paul would rather see the Ds hold the Oval Office for another 4 years. Since the numbers & devotion of Paul's following cannot be discounted, it would be a shame

If he could reach a meeting of the minds with a Cain/Newt ticket, and be offered a position in such an administration where he could actually make some headway on his (Paul's) agenda for fiscal responsibility that would be a great step forward for the country. I have the same distaste for "PC" as many others, but there is something to be said for "catching more flies with honey than vinegar," and Paul comes off as mostly vinegar to me ... even though I do respect his opinions and goals. His demeanor may not be right for a POTUS, but his ideas & integrity could be valued by a Cain/Newt ticket.

I seriouly doubt Cain will get the GOP nomination, too many women coming out of the woodwork. Besides, the Dems will use his lack of Foreign Policy experience against him and I wouldn't trust Cain to make the correct decision if he ever got that 3am phone call. Maybe he can stop China from developing nukes;-) Many Repubs, especially the Tea party view him as part of the problem with his support of bailouts and ties to Wall St. Gingrich's image will not help him and would be one sure way of assuring another 4 years of Obama. To win a candidate will have to draw from Independents as well as Moderates, something Newt can't do.

I don't blame Ron Paul for not supporting any GOP candidate if he doesn't get the nomination. That because none of them have a grasp of how to fix what needs fixing from our monetary system to Foreign Policy, the current field of GOP's just represents more of the same failed policies. I would have a very difficult time voting for anyone else!

Gerry Clinchy
11-08-2011, 10:02 AM
Every vote that RP draws away from the R ticket, is like a vote for Obama.

I think it would be an admirable thing for him to at least have a discourse with two like Cain & Newt since I do not believe he can carry a general election ... due to his age & "vinegar".

Since the word "compromise" has come to have a slimy connotation, how about trying to find a meeting of the minds. RP comes off as talking down to anyone who does not totally agree with every iota of his beliefs. Rubs me the wrong way ... much like the elites of govt bureaucracy who think they know more than Joe Average on how govt knows what's best for them.

Actually, I believe that this demeanor is what has kept him from getting the nomination before; and has limited RP's impact for his 20-year tenure in govt. I really do like his premises, but I believe his "presentation" has cost him having his ideals being put into practice. If there is a way to get his ideas into the hands of people who can make the "presentation", it would benefit the country.

I believe that Cain's lack in foreign policy could be balanced by Newt. I have had a negative perception of Newt, but if the words he's been speaking in the debates are sincere & honest, he impresses me as one of the most capable of the candidates for handling the issues the country faces. Like another poster, I never thought I'd be saying that!

Franco
11-08-2011, 10:10 AM
Every vote that RP draws away from the R ticket, is like a vote for Obama.

I think it would be an admirable thing for him to at least have a discourse with two like Cain & Newt since I do not believe he can carry a general election ... due to his age & "vinegar".

Since the word "compromise" has come to have a slimy connotation, how about trying to find a meeting of the minds. RP comes off as talking down to anyone who does not totally agree with every iota of his beliefs. Rubs me the wrong way ... much like the elites of govt bureaucracy who think they know more than Joe Average on how govt knows what's best for them.

Actually, I believe that this demeanor is what has kept him from getting the nomination before; and has limited RP's impact for his 20-year tenure in govt. I really do like his premises, but I believe his "presentation" has cost him having his ideals being put into practice. If there is a way to get his ideas into the hands of people who can make the "presentation", it would benefit the country.

I believe that Cain's lack in foreign policy could be balanced by Newt. I have had a negative perception of Newt, but if the words he's been speaking in the debates are sincere & honest, he impresses me as one of the most capable of the candidates for handling the issues the country faces. Like another poster, I never thought I'd be saying that!

RP supporters are sick and tired of the political games played in DC. True, RP is not a slick politician and he does lack charisma. However, he has the solutions to our problems and that is why his support is so loyal. Those that support him do NOt see a viable alternative among the current field. Again, we see it as being more of the same old politics with just a different face.

They way the GOP field is shaping up, Obama could win by an even larger margin than he did in 2008. That is how unimpressive the current field is!

Gerry Clinchy
11-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Franco, I think it's safe to say that most on this forum are also sick and tired of the political games of DC :-)

Leftist thinking wheedled its way into our perceptions of right and wrong in small, subtle increments. Perhaps those that believe otherwise have to take the same approach? This may be why RP has not succeeded in moving his ideas forward?


They way the GOP field is shaping up, Obama could win by an even larger margin than he did in 2008.

And, unfortunately, RP could help that happen. There is some lack of logic in his approach.

Yes, he has had a good public forum for espousing his ideas & making more people aware of the things that need to be fixed. I'd say I'm one who knows more about RP's ideas now than I did four years ago. (Have not been "into" politics until more recently). However, he has been ineffectual at getting implementation of his ideas.

If you keep doing the same thing, why should you expect different results? RP may have used that phrase himself. Yet, he keeps doing that very thing himself. Perhaps he expects that Rand will carry on his (Ron's) work ... but we could be running out of time?

Can RP use his same un-charismatic approach to foreign policy? We may be too involved in other people's business in some respects ... but the isolationism that our forefathers may have felt was right, may not work as well in today's environment. Each instance should be evaluated on its own merit.

When it comes to humanitarian aid, I think that such existed before govt started throwing money around willy-nilly. Even now, with tragedies like Haiti, private charity has shown itself capable of raising large amounts of aid. I have this feeling that most govt aid ends up in some bureaucratic pockets & not helping the victims of disaster.

I don't think you have to be a slick politician to be charismatic. It seems basic, though, that if you want your product to be accepted, you need to present it well.

BonMallari
11-08-2011, 10:54 AM
just because RP has said HE wouldnt support any other nominees doesnt mean he speaks for all but his hardcore supporters (ideologists)...if the polls are even remotely correct and the country thinks the country is in the wrong direction, there should be no way BHO gets re elected...no matter the R nominee its a clear cut choice ...no one can tell me that any R candidate isnt to the right of BHO

charly_t
11-08-2011, 11:11 AM
I didn't vote in this poll.....I'm still waiting and thinking about them.

Gerry, you pretty well sum up the way I see things right now. Cain
looked good till he waffled about the charges against him. I want
honesty and I'm not sure about his honesty.

road kill
11-08-2011, 11:20 AM
If Ron Paul gets the nomination I will not vote!!:rolleyes:



RK

M&K's Retrievers
11-08-2011, 11:28 AM
I didn't vote in this poll.....I'm still waiting and thinking about them.

Gerry, you pretty well sum up the way I see things right now. Cain
looked good till he waffled about the charges against him. I want
honesty and I'm not sure about his honesty.

I don't think anyone but Franco has made up their mind yet. The question was "who would you vote for today"?

scott spalding
11-08-2011, 11:29 AM
Any chance of starting a new list;)

road kill
11-08-2011, 11:31 AM
Any chance of starting a new list;)

Why?
There is only 1 man that can save us!!!!


RK

charly_t
11-08-2011, 11:34 AM
I don't think anyone but Franco has made up their mind yet. The question was "who would you vote for today"?

And my answer stands........I'm still thinking. I would probably not vote today.

scott spalding
11-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Why?
There is only 1 man that can save us!!!!


RK

Because I don't believe there is a great leader in the group.

BonMallari
11-08-2011, 12:01 PM
And my answer stands........I'm still thinking. I would probably not vote today.


the non vote factor scares me almost as much as those voting from the left...I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't exercise your right to vote

voter apathy is a nationwide epidemic, when you stop and think about how few people actually vote compared to those that are eligible...almost as scary as those that vote that that arent eligible or even alive

Gerry Clinchy
11-08-2011, 12:13 PM
Bon, I think RP could do a lot of damage by belittling the R nominee. Maybe some of RP's supporters would not fall into line, but it would be much better if every vote possible was used to show the strength of the dislike for O's policies.

charlyt: I do wonder why someone who "settled" so many years ago comes out now. I guess I'm a little like RP :-) in that if I had believed then that my cause was just, I would not have settled; and for a measly one year's salary no less. I think Cain's early response of "I never sexually harrassed anyone," was definitive. Now I'd like to see how the rest of this unfolds before I come to a personal conclusion.

I still like Cain (until the saga on the allegations is complete), but when put next to Newt, I cannot deny Newt's intelligence and practical savvy. If Newt has some integrity (of which I am not sure), he might be one who could make inroads in changing direction of the country.

In the TX debate with just the two of them, you could see much common ground, but Newt was far better at articulating. Could part of that be because Cain is a math major & Newt an history guy? Both seem to know their subject matter well enough to just use sparse notes to direct their remarks on the topics. RP is also excellent in that regard. RP is also more articulate, to my ear, than Cain.

I cannot deny that Cain does have a charisma that both Newt and RP may not. We kid ourselves if we discount the value of charisma. We already know that many voters will be turned based on a charisma element. Just a fact of life.

BonMallari
11-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Bon, I think RP could do a lot of damage by belittling the R nominee. Maybe some of RP's supporters would not fall into line, but it would be much better if every vote possible was used to show the strength of the dislike for O's policies.

charlyt: I do wonder why someone who "settled" so many years ago comes out now. I guess I'm a little like RP :-) in that if I had believed then that my cause was just, I would not have settled; and for a measly one year's salary no less. I think Cain's early response of "I never sexually harrassed anyone," was definitive. Now I'd like to see how the rest of this unfolds before I come to a personal conclusion.

I still like Cain (until the saga on the allegations is complete), but when put next to Newt, I cannot deny Newt's intelligence and practical savvy. If Newt has some integrity (of which I am not sure), he might be one who could make inroads in changing direction of the country.

In the TX debate with just the two of them, you could see much common ground, but Newt was far better at articulating. Could part of that be because Cain is a math major & Newt an history guy? Both seem to know their subject matter well enough to just use sparse notes to direct their remarks on the topics. RP is also excellent in that regard. RP is also more articulate, to my ear, than Cain.

I cannot deny that Cain does have a charisma that both Newt and RP may not. We kid ourselves if we discount the value of charisma. We already know that many voters will be turned based on a charisma element. Just a fact of life.


the internal damage that the R nominees are doing on each other concerns me more...no doubt that the R party is fractured and dysfunctional, but that is because they dont realize the big prize is taking back the WH and Congress

Gerry Clinchy
11-08-2011, 12:33 PM
the internal damage that the R nominees are doing on each other concerns me more...no doubt that the R party is fractured and dysfunctional, but that is because they dont realize the big prize is taking back the WH and Congress

Will not disagree with you on that.

charly_t
11-08-2011, 01:15 PM
the non vote factor scares me almost as much as those voting from the left...I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't exercise your right to vote

voter apathy is a nationwide epidemic, when you stop and think about how few people actually vote compared to those that are eligible...almost as scary as those that vote that that arent eligible or even alive

It's NOT apathy !!!! I'm just old and not sure if I have understood everything that I need to to vote. When you get old you also will understand where I am coming from. That is why I do not support RP. I like his ideas but if he has the same problems that I do it may not be a good fit for him in the White House. "A man has to know his limitations" a la Clint Eastwood. It is time for me ( maybe ) to turn over the reins to younger people. I'm feeling the years ( picked out the Tombstone last Friday reguards :-) When the time comes to vote I will probably vote but I'm just not sure it is a good idea for me to do so anymore.

BonMallari
11-08-2011, 02:22 PM
It's NOT apathy !!!! I'm just old and not sure if I have understood everything that I need to to vote. When you get old you also will understand where I am coming from. That is why I do not support RP. I like his ideas but if he has the same problems that I do it may not be a good fit for him in the White House. "A man has to know his limitations" a la Clint Eastwood. It is time for me ( maybe ) to turn over the reins to younger people. I'm feeling the years ( picked out the Tombstone last Friday reguards :-) When the time comes to vote I will probably vote but I'm just not sure it is a good idea for me to do so anymore.

what do you mean WHEN I get old, I qualified for AARP a couple of years ago, not something I am exactly proud of, still got a headfull of hair, with lots of grey,the memory may not be what it once was,but the spirit is still there

Youre not old either,just more experienced and a heck of a lot wiser than most on here

charly_t
11-08-2011, 03:19 PM
Youre not old either,just more experienced and a heck of a lot wiser than most on here


Oh, my goodness ! My mind is bad some days. Thank you for that compliment though. I have to tell you......( and I'm sure you already know it )
that all minds do not age in like manner. It's cause for celibration in this house if a check book balances the first time we try to do that each month.
If both balance you can imagine the joy VBG. Have to confess that our votes sometimes cancel each other's votes out. Anyway.........I do not have apathy. I have voted for somebody in every presidential election since I got old enough to vote. Even got an absentee ballot one year when the second baby was due in Nov. :-) That was 1960 if I remember correctly but I don't remember who I voted for that far back. I have lost some of my mind the last few years. I know it hence the reluctance to vote this year. Youngest son favors RP big time.

Hew
11-08-2011, 04:27 PM
the internal damage that the R nominees are doing on each other concerns me more...no doubt that the R party is fractured and dysfunctional, but that is because they dont realize the big prize is taking back the WH and Congress
Nah...that's just primary politics. Obama and Hillary! savaged each other, but at the end of the day, swallowed their pride and reconcilled...partly out of party loyalty, partly because eating a sh!t sammich whilst grinnin' is an art form for politicians. It was the same for Bush and McCain, Clinton/Gore, REALLY the same for GHW Bush and Reagan, etc.

As you noted, Ron Paul, when he doesn't win, will petulently take his ball (and many of his supporters) and go home. He'll do this because he's a hypocritical asshat and old time political whore who calls himself a Republican simply to raise $$$. His loyalty extends only past the end of his nose. He doesn't have to do the things other pols have to do because he's old as F and retiring anyway...a man with nothing's got nothing to lose I believe Dylan said.

Franco
11-08-2011, 04:52 PM
As you noted, Ron Paul, when he doesn't win, will petulently take his ball (and many of his supporters) and go home. He'll do this because he's a hypocritical asshat and old time political whore who calls himself a Republican simply to raise $$$. His loyalty extends only past the end of his nose. He doesn't have to do the things other pols have to do because he's old as F and retiring anyway...a man with nothing's got nothing to lose I believe Dylan said.

How does one support the policies of others when they know those policies are destructive? Only a true patriot stands by his principles and doesn't compromise them to enhance his political ambitions!

BonMallari
11-08-2011, 05:03 PM
How does one support the policies of others when they know those policies are destructive? Only a true patriot stands by his principles and doesn't compromise them to enhance his political ambitions!

simple its called ideology vs pragmatism.....RP has some brilliant ideas, some of his ideas are so simple and make so much sense, you scratch your head and wonder why it hasnt been done before....but honestly some of his other ideas leave you scratching you head thinking WTH..a fine line between genius and insanity..RP walks the tightrope daily...not willing to stake my country's fortunes on that thin wire

Cody Covey
11-08-2011, 05:28 PM
How does one support the policies of others when they know those policies are destructive? Only a true patriot stands by his principles and doesn't compromise them to enhance his political ambitions!

Did you vote for McCain?

Franco
11-08-2011, 08:02 PM
Did you vote for McCain?



Yes, I voted for McCain, think he would have made a fine President.

I know the neoConservatives like Limbaugh and Hannity didn't approve of him but, I felt that if they disliked him so much then he must be a good potential President. Besides, he was a Navy Captain and that rank isn't easy to come by and one has to love his military experience. Especially, if he was to become the Commander In Chief.

Do I agree with all he stood for? Nope! But then again, I can't think of any politician I agree with 100%.

BrettG
11-08-2011, 08:10 PM
I didn't vote in this poll.....I'm still waiting and thinking about them.

Gerry, you pretty well sum up the way I see things right now. Cain
looked good till he waffled about the charges against him. I want
honesty and I'm not sure about his honesty.

If you want honesty you want find it anywhere in Washington.

charly_t
11-08-2011, 08:19 PM
If you want honesty you want find it anywhere in Washington.

Sadly I do not believe honesty is very common in DC. Well.....come to think of it it isn't common any place in these days I would guess. Okla. politics
are sure no place to look for it either.

huntinman
11-08-2011, 08:47 PM
Oh, my goodness ! My mind is bad some days. Thank you for that compliment though. I have to tell you......( and I'm sure you already know it )
that all minds do not age in like manner. It's cause for celibration in this house if a check book balances the first time we try to do that each month.
If both balance you can imagine the joy VBG. Have to confess that our votes sometimes cancel each other's votes out. Anyway.........I do not have apathy. I have voted for somebody in every presidential election since I got old enough to vote. Even got an absentee ballot one year when the second baby was due in Nov. :-) That was 1960 if I remember correctly but I don't remember who I voted for that far back. I have lost some of my mind the last few years. I know it hence the reluctance to vote this year. Youngest son favors RP big time.

Charly, your'e not Franco's mother are you?:confused:

charly_t
11-08-2011, 10:07 PM
Charly, your'e not Franco's mother are you?:confused:


ROTFL......Good one but, no, I am not. I believe that Franco is a good bit older than that son. That son was born in 1969.

Franco
11-08-2011, 10:10 PM
ROTFL......Good one but, no, I am not. I believe that Franco is a good bit older than that son. That son was born in 1969.

1969 was a great year! I was graduating from High School and the music was never better;-) Billy Kilmer was the Saints' QB and Charlie Maclendon was taking heat at LSU because the fans were unhappy with only winning 9 games a season, season after season.

BonMallari
11-08-2011, 10:26 PM
1969 was a great year! I was graduating from High School and the music was never better;-) Billy Kilmer was the Saints' QB and Charlie Maclendon was taking heat at LSU because the fans were unhappy with only winning 9 games a season, season after season.

and in the fall of '69 Texas beat Arkansas in the 100th year of college football 15-14 and went on to win the National Championship under Coach Royal...

charly_t
11-08-2011, 10:29 PM
1969 was a great year! I was graduating from High School and the music was never better;-) Billy Kilmer was the Saints' QB and Charlie Maclendon was taking heat at LSU because the fans were unhappy with only winning 9 games a season, season after season.

Thanks, Franco. Let's see I had a birthday a little over a week ago and turned 74. That would have sure made me a very young mother :-)
I'd guess you were about 17 when you graduated so that would have put me at 15 when you were born. I may be crazy but I ain't stupid. Smart enough not to have had a child at that age :-)

Cody Covey
11-09-2011, 02:07 PM
Yes, I voted for McCain, think he would have made a fine President.

I know the neoConservatives like Limbaugh and Hannity didn't approve of him but, I felt that if they disliked him so much then he must be a good potential President. Besides, he was a Navy Captain and that rank isn't easy to come by and one has to love his military experience. Especially, if he was to become the Commander In Chief.

Do I agree with all he stood for? Nope! But then again, I can't think of any politician I agree with 100%.

But you say that you can't support a politician that you disagree with and given all you have said here, you could not have agreed with McCain on much. Immigration, nope...Foreign Policy, nope...Fiscal Policy, nope again. What did you agree with McCain on? My point is just because you don't agree with everything a candidate says doesn't mean you can't rally around the best chance our country has given the options and at this time our options don't include Ron Paul and his unwillingness to support anyone other than himself makes him a RINO. He is a republican simply because that is where he knows he can actually raise money.

Franco
11-09-2011, 04:11 PM
But you say that you can't support a politician that you disagree with and given all you have said here, you could not have agreed with McCain on much. Immigration, nope...Foreign Policy, nope...Fiscal Policy, nope again. What did you agree with McCain on? My point is just because you don't agree with everything a candidate says doesn't mean you can't rally around the best chance our country has given the options and at this time our options don't include Ron Paul and his unwillingness to support anyone other than himself makes him a RINO. He is a republican simply because that is where he knows he can actually raise money.

Compared to Obama, Sen McCain has many redeeming qualities.

RP a RINO?
I don't think so! He is the only real Conservative in the group.

I would sit out and not vote before I would vote for a person like Cain, Bachmann or Perry.

This is why unempolyment remains so high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH1YEP3UzFU (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DTH1YEP3UzFU&h=zAQHRF1b8AQGOXkCrLT74YUrIddAPwSobLNk-C1v5vm6cMw)

Cody Covey
11-09-2011, 05:19 PM
Compared to Obama, Sen McCain has many redeeming qualities.

RP a RINO?
I don't think so! He is the only real Conservative in the group.

I would sit out and not vote before I would vote for a person like Cain, Bachmann or Perry.

This is why unempolyment remains so high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH1YEP3UzFU (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DTH1YEP3UzFU&h=zAQHRF1b8AQGOXkCrLT74YUrIddAPwSobLNk-C1v5vm6cMw)

Then you will not be voting this year. Unless you intentionally left Romney out meaning you would vote for him. Ron Paul has no shot. And he is NOT a conservative he is a Libertarian plain and simply

Gerry Clinchy
11-09-2011, 06:54 PM
Franco, I looked at that last clip. I really do like a lot of RP's ideas. The real problem in a general election could very well be that you have to think to realize how much sense he makes. I think the 2008 election showed that a LOT of voters don't think a whole lot. They like to hear "feel good" sound bytes, and that's how they vote.

I can remember the 2008 campaign and thinking that O's words were rhetoric ... and it turned out they were exactly that ... just saying things that people wanted to hear. Rhetoric is pure "politician", and that's what he has turned out to be.

Everyone on this forum is, I believe, more thoughtful than the majority of voters.

If we could just put RP's brain in a Reagan persona, he'd have a shot :-)

ppro
11-10-2011, 09:20 AM
I like Gingrich and Cain ticket as long as the Cain fiasco is nothing.

EdA
11-10-2011, 10:04 AM
To regain the White House the Republican Party must nominate the one candidate in the race who is electable to the general population. That person graduated from a prestigious Ivy League law school and had a distinguished career in business before entering politics. For reasons which are not clear to me it seems that people continue to look elsewhere for a viable candidate when instead that should be pulling shoulder to shoulder for the man who could be President.

Fiscal Conservative and Social Liberal Regards

caryalsobrook
11-10-2011, 10:39 AM
To regain the White House the Republican Party must nominate the one candidate in the race is electable to the general population. That person graduated from a prestigious Ivy League law school and had a distinguished career in business before entering politics. For reasons which are not clear to me it seems that people continue to look elsewhere for a viable candidate when instead that should be pulling shoulder to shoulder for the man who could be President.

Fiscal Conservative and Social Liberal Regards
I don't dobt you are right about the man but will you tell me how one can be a fiscal conservative and a social liberal? Seems to me to be an oxymoron>

EdA
11-10-2011, 10:49 AM
will you tell me how one can be a fiscal conservative and a social liberal? Seems to me to be an oxymoron>

Hardly an oxymoron unless you believe what the self appointed conservative spokesmen espouse. I know many like minded people who believe in fiscal responsibility but care little about who is sleeping with whom and support a woman's right to control her own reproductive life.

Fiscal conservatives come from all religious and irreligious backgrounds from devoutly religious to atheist.

The adoption of social conservatism as the only true measure of a conservative is a fairly recent phenomenon fostered by the religious right.

BonMallari
11-10-2011, 11:11 AM
To regain the White House the Republican Party must nominate the one candidate in the race is electable to the general population. That person graduated from a prestigious Ivy League law school and had a distinguished career in business before entering politics. For reasons which are not clear to me it seems that people continue to look elsewhere for a viable candidate when instead that should be pulling shoulder to shoulder for the man who could be President.

Fiscal Conservative and Social Liberal Regards

we are talking about Mitt correct...would have no problem supporting him..voted for him in '08

EdA
11-10-2011, 11:33 AM
we are talking about Mitt correct...would have no problem supporting him..voted for him in '08

Yes sir, conservatives think he is too liberal and liberals think he is too conservative but to the 60% of voters in the middle he is at worst tolerable and provides the best opportunity for leadership on Pennsylvania Avenue.

caryalsobrook
11-10-2011, 12:01 PM
Hardly an oxymoron unless you believe what the self appointed conservative spokesmen espouse. I know many like minded people who believe in fiscal responsibility but care little about who is sleeping with whom and support a woman's right to control her own reproductive life.

Fiscal conservatives come from all religious and irreligious backgrounds from devoutly religious to atheist.

The adoption of social conservatism as the only true measure of a conservative is a fairly recent phenomenon fostered by the religious right.
You have a different definition of the word "social". I looked it up in the dictionary to make sure of it. Here is what I found.

SOCIAL- Concerned with human beings in their relations to each other: social justice. of or dealing with the living conditions, health, or other aspects of their lives of human beings.

Nothing concerning religious aspects. If you use the term refering to the so called religious right, your position is probably the same as mine. Given the true definition of the word "social", libertarians would have difficulty understanding such a political position as described.

Franco
11-10-2011, 12:04 PM
Hardly an oxymoron unless you believe what the self appointed conservative spokesmen espouse. I know many like minded people who believe in fiscal responsibility but care little about who is sleeping with whom and support a woman's right to control her own reproductive life.

Fiscal conservatives come from all religious and irreligious backgrounds from devoutly religious to atheist.

The adoption of social conservatism as the only true measure of a conservative is a fairly recent phenomenon fostered by the religious right.

Amen and welcome to the SEC!;-)

P S

There are very very few Conservatives in government. Those expousing are either extreme or neoconservatives.

cpj
11-10-2011, 03:13 PM
I din't think most people really understand what a true conservative is. I'm also glad I read through this thread. I've been wondering for a while where are these polled people who keep Romney on top. I haven't been able to find any until now. For all you Ron Paul naysayers I challenge you to spend 10 minutes on his website reading his views on issues etc. If you call yourself a conservative you shouldn't have a hard time agreeing with him. If you haven't seen any of his old speeches (from the 80's or so) Youtube them. He has been warning America of this financial meltdown for a long time.

Franco
11-10-2011, 03:31 PM
I din't think most people really understand what a true conservative is. I'm also glad I read through this thread. I've been wondering for a while where are these polled people who keep Romney on top. I haven't been able to find any until now. For all you Ron Paul naysayers I challenge you to spend 10 minutes on his website reading his views on issues etc. If you call yourself a conservative you shouldn't have a hard time agreeing with him. If you haven't seen any of his old speeches (from the 80's or so) Youtube them. He has been warning America of this financial meltdown for a long time.

Dr Paul's campaign is doing very well. The war chest (cash) is flowing in and he is gaining momentum. He looked great last night and he very well could pull off an upset in Iowa and New Hampshire! Like Romney, he too can pull from all walks of life and not just the hard right.

Cody Covey
11-10-2011, 04:35 PM
Dr Paul's campaign is doing very well. The war chest (cash) is flowing in and he is gaining momentum. He looked great last night and he very well could pull off an upset in Iowa and New Hampshire! Like Romney, he too can pull from all walks of life and not just the hard right.

RP doesn't even have double digit support and he is gaining momentum?

huntinman
11-10-2011, 04:47 PM
I din't think most people really understand what a true conservative is. I'm also glad I read through this thread. I've been wondering for a while where are these polled people who keep Romney on top. I haven't been able to find any until now. For all you Ron Paul naysayers I challenge you to spend 10 minutes on his website reading his views on issues etc. If you call yourself a conservative you shouldn't have a hard time agreeing with him. If you haven't seen any of his old speeches (from the 80's or so) Youtube them. He has been warning America of this financial meltdown for a long time.

When he says we should just be friends with Iran, he proves the point of everyone (including me) who says he is just a kook.

Franco
11-10-2011, 04:50 PM
RP doesn't even have double digit support and he is gaining momentum?

He's moved up from sixth to fouth and is ahead of Perry who was leading the field six weeks ago!

Cody Covey
11-10-2011, 04:58 PM
He's moved up from sixth to fouth and is ahead of Perry who was leading the field six weeks ago!

Perry is ahead in every single poll I can find except Newspaper Polls. New York Times and Wall Street Journal was pretty much it...

BonMallari
11-10-2011, 05:02 PM
He's moved up from sixth to fouth and is ahead of Perry who was leading the field six weeks ago!

which poll are you looking at

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

Gerry Clinchy
11-10-2011, 05:21 PM
which poll are you looking at

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

I didn't realize that Cain had pulled ahead of Romney.

huntinman
11-10-2011, 06:29 PM
I didn't realize that Cain had pulled ahead of Romney.

Cain? Some reporter today was whining because herman said he was going to "Beat Obama with a Cain"... the lib reporter said couldn't that be construed as racially insensitive!!:confused: Maybe the reporter was blind as well as dumb

Franco
11-10-2011, 07:22 PM
which poll are you looking at

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

Gallup from earlier this week.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/150617/Cain-Ties-Romney-Atop-GOP-Field.aspx

Cain and Romney are tied. Followed by Gingrich, Perry then Paul.

Peace out, heading for Pecan Island for the duck opener!

BonMallari
11-10-2011, 07:28 PM
Gallup from earlier this week.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/150617/Cain-Ties-Romney-Atop-GOP-Field.aspx

Cain and Romney are tied. Followed by Gingrich, Perry then Paul.

Peace out, heading for Pecan Island for the duck opener!

be safe, wear your PFD if you are going out in the water...have a great hunt, and an even better time

JackCreek
11-10-2011, 08:12 PM
I didn't vote in this poll.....I'm still waiting and thinking about them.

Gerry, you pretty well sum up the way I see things right now. Cain
looked good till he waffled about the charges against him. I want
honesty and I'm not sure about his honesty.

According to Ann Coulter's research, http://www.anncoulter.com/ , Mr. Cain is not waffling about the charges against him. I respect Ms. Coulter's research as she is known for basing her writings on fact and not on conjecture. We, as a nation, have to be very careful about basing our judgement of people on opinions and feelings rather than facts. I don't know who will end up being the R's nominee, but I do feel that Mr. Cain, as does anyone, deserves to have factual evidence presented rather than innuendos and conjecture. How many people have had their lives ruined by rumors - how different is this behavior from bullying? And we wonder where our children learn this.

BonMallari
11-10-2011, 08:20 PM
According to Ann Coulter's research, http://www.anncoulter.com/ , Mr. Cain is not waffling about the charges against him. I respect Ms. Coulter's research as she is known for basing her writings on fact and not on conjecture. We, as a nation, have to be very careful about basing our judgement of people on opinions and feelings rather than facts. I don't know who will end up being the R's nominee, but I do feel that Mr. Cain, as does anyone, deserves to have factual evidence presented rather than innuendos and conjecture. How many people have had their lives ruined by rumors - how different is this behavior from bullying? And we wonder where our children learn this.

I read Ms Coulter's article earlier today and she connects the dots quite nicely, but I doubt the lamestream media will report on it

huntinman
11-10-2011, 08:48 PM
be safe, wear your PFD if you are going out in the water...have a great hunt, and an even better time

Why? The gators down there eat PFD's too! Though they might spit Franco out...

JackCreek
11-10-2011, 08:53 PM
Bon, I agree that the lamestream media will neglect to report any of this. It is hard to ferret out the facts as BOTH D's and R's, have a history of coloring preceptions that would benefit themselves.

Too many "career politicians" in both parties. I dream of term limits with highly regulated lobbying. Our federal politicians have become national czars, living an elite lifestyle at the taxpayer's expense. Why should they get lifetime benefits that are far superior to anything they draft for their constituents? They all need to do their political/civic duty, short term, then leave Washinton and go back home and get a real job with NO lifetime benefits.

What we need are true statesmen - George Washington and the men that he led at Valley Forge must be turning over in their graves at what this country has become.

cpj
11-10-2011, 08:57 PM
RP has never said we should be friends with Iraq. Do some research.

BonMallari
11-10-2011, 09:32 PM
RP has never said we should be friends with Iraq. Do some research.

spin it how you want, I did the research as requested...here it is from RP himself



Opposing the Use of Military Force Against Iraq
Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)
October 10, 2002

I oppose the resolution authorizing military force against Iraq. The wisdom of the war is one issue, but the process and the philosophy behind our foreign policy are important issues as well. But I have come to the conclusion that I see no threat to our national security. There is no convincing evidence that Iraq is capable of threatening the security of this country, and, therefore, very little reason, if any, to pursue a war.

But I am very interested also in the process that we are pursuing. This is not a resolution to declare war. We know that. This is a resolution that does something much different. This resolution transfers the responsibility, the authority, and the power of the Congress to the President so he can declare war when and if he wants to. He has not even indicated that he wants to go to war or has to go to war; but he will make the full decision, not the Congress, not the people through the Congress of this country in that manner.

http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul51.html

Gerry Clinchy
11-10-2011, 11:49 PM
I watched the Wed. night debate online. Good for Newt telling the questioner that the question was ridiculous. Good for Romney for redirecting the foolishness of the question about the sexual harrassment allegations. RP had already taken the high road on those issues being inappropriate for a Presidential debate. Whether the allegations have merit or not, there are too many important things to discuss in these debates.

The question about how to fix the housing industry was inane. Not many people buy homes when they're unemployed.

Would like to see a Newt/RP ticket just so we could watch debates where Newt could make mincemeat out of Obama; and RP could do likewise with Biden.

In the 2008 debates, inept as Biden can be, his Senate experience made it easy for him to sound smart up against an ill-prepared Palin. Biden might be able to do the same with Cain. Biden would have no such advantage with RP.

BonMallari
11-11-2011, 12:04 AM
I watched the Wed. night debate online. Good for Newt telling the questioner that the question was ridiculous. Good for Romney for redirecting the foolishness of the question about the sexual harrassment allegations. RP had already taken the high road on those issues being inappropriate for a Presidential debate. Whether the allegations have merit or not, there are too many important things to discuss in these debates.

The question about how to fix the housing industry was inane. Not many people buy homes when they're unemployed.

Would like to see a Newt/RP ticket just so we could watch debates where Newt could make mincemeat out of Obama; and RP could do likewise with Biden.

In the 2008 debates, inept as Biden can be, his Senate experience made it easy for him to sound smart up against an ill-prepared Palin. Biden might be able to do the same with Cain. Biden would have no such advantage with RP.

Just because we mostly believe that Newt would make mincemeat out of BHO in a debate its hardly the basis for what would make a good POTUS, after all BHO has proven if nothing else he is a slick talking salesman/organizer...if there were a debate between Biden vs Paul the focus would be who would make the more outlandish claim that would forever put them in the VP debate hall of shame next to Quayle,Palin..

The country has endured three years of speeches by the current resident of the WH...I want a POTUS that will get Congress to do some work

cpj
11-11-2011, 06:12 AM
I actually meant Iran, which was mentioned before my post. Bon your quote doesn't lead me to believe RP wants to befriend Iraq, the quote of RP states Iraq isn't a threat, and that the constitution gives congress the authority to declare war. If you feel Iraq truly threatens our nations security please provide proof.

cpj
11-11-2011, 06:17 AM
The Army, Navy and Air Force active service members have given more money to RP's campaign so far than all other candidates combined. I believe this shows that our servicemen are tired of fighting meaningless wars and are ready to come home.

BonMallari
11-11-2011, 07:20 AM
The Army, Navy and Air Force active service members have given more money to RP's campaign so far than all other candidates combined. I believe this shows that our servicemen are tired of fighting meaningless wars and are ready to come home.

may I ask where that data comes from other than RP own website ?

BonMallari
11-11-2011, 07:30 AM
I actually meant Iran, which was mentioned before my post. Bon your quote doesn't lead me to believe RP wants to befriend Iraq, the quote of RP states Iraq isn't a threat, and that the constitution gives congress the authority to declare war. If you feel Iraq truly threatens our nations security please provide proof.

the Iraq subject has been beat to death by people far more knowledgable than me, and if you look at the date on the quote its about 9 years old...

Now would you like to tell me with an absolute straight face and tell me that Iran is not a threat

Gerry Clinchy
11-11-2011, 09:28 AM
Just because we mostly believe that Newt would make mincemeat out of BHO in a debate its hardly the basis for what would make a good POTUS, after all BHO has proven if nothing else he is a slick talking salesman/organizer...if there were a debate between Biden vs Paul the focus would be who would make the more outlandish claim that would forever put them in the VP debate hall of shame next to Quayle,Palin..

The country has endured three years of speeches by the current resident of the WH...I want a POTUS that will get Congress to do some work

If we don't have much of a chance of getting a really superior POTUS out of this election, at least we could get some entertainment out of such debates :-)

I wonder how one really can decide what qualities make a really great POTUS? JFK was very charismatic to the people, as was Reagan. LBJ got things done in Congress because he knew how to get to people in the cloakrooms, as does Obama. We measured Lincoln's greatness by his character ... now, but I'd guess that there were a lot of people who blamed him for creating The Civil War. Some worship FDR, charisma again, but he also was one who laid the foundation for our thinking that govt can, and should, solve economic problems. If we look only to intelligence, Carter was one of those. Reagan was not an intellectual.

Might be an interesting topic for another thread: who were the greatest Presidents, and why?

cpj
11-11-2011, 10:41 AM
Are they a threat? They don't have nukes, or a navy. On the other hand, China and Russia have hundreds of nukes. Are they threats? Have you read RP's stance on defense as shown on his website?

Cody Covey
11-11-2011, 11:35 AM
Are they a threat? They don't have nukes, or a navy. On the other hand, China and Russia have hundreds of nukes. Are they threats? Have you read RP's stance on defense as shown on his website?

They also don't have a stated mission of blowing our ONLY ally in the region off the map. They also don't have hatred for our country the same way Iran does. They don't have Nukes now but they are certainly working hard at getting them and have stated that nothing we do will stop them. Please don't tell me they are not a threat....

BonMallari
11-11-2011, 01:00 PM
Are they a threat? They don't have nukes, or a navy. On the other hand, China and Russia have hundreds of nukes. Are they threats? Have you read RP's stance on defense as shown on his website?

as long as they have Ahmadinijead, and an Ayatollah they are a threat, to Israel,the US and any other country...just because they have no navy means very little nowadays..nukes have turned third world countries into players,getting an authorized nuke is the scariest of them all

cpj
11-11-2011, 01:52 PM
Our ally over their has over 300 nuclear weapons. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves. What about China, Russia? If Iran got a nuke and tried to use it against us don't you think we'd retaliate with more nukes? What is their gain if we wipe them off the face of the earth?

BonMallari
11-11-2011, 02:01 PM
Our ally over their has over 300 nuclear weapons. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves. What about China, Russia? If Iran got a nuke and tried to use it against us don't you think we'd retaliate with more nukes? What is their gain if we wipe them off the face of the earth?

the threat of nuclear war is the deterrent for BOTH sides, just like in the movies, its not who fires the first nuke, because once they all fly the world as we know it may cease to exist, and all that matters is who fired the last one..no one really wants nuclear war,but you have to be willing to look a potential enemy in the eye without blinking..its the penultimate form of brinkmanship but with no winners, just losers

Gerry Clinchy
11-11-2011, 04:07 PM
Our ally over their has over 300 nuclear weapons. They are perfectly capable of defending themselves. What about China, Russia? If Iran got a nuke and tried to use it against us don't you think we'd retaliate with more nukes? What is their gain if we wipe them off the face of the earth?

Same gain, I guess, as the people who are willing to blow themselves up in order to kill those that they perceive as their enemies?

The reason that China and Russia may be less likely to use their nukes is that they don't really want to blow themselves up. The End Times "theology" of Islam doesn't care about blowing themselves up ... they think that by blowing us up, the Mahdi will return and Islam will rule the world.

If the latter is truly the mindset of the powers of Iran (and they have publicly said it is), that makes nukes in their hands more dangerous than Russia & China. Russia & China have gotten some taste of capitalism, and seem to like it just fine. Iran is not the same thing.

Nor_Cal_Angler
11-11-2011, 11:53 PM
Haven't been around in awhile....

Simply put...NEWT

Everyone has flaw's, the entire GOP field and well we all know of Obama's

But if you line up resume's Newt has the PROVEN jacket to get the job done..

Regained the house...1994 first in 40 years

Balanced budget...first in over a generation, not mine, but its promising for the future

Getting Congress to work...lowerd taxes for the first time in 16yrs, welfare reform, 60 percent of welfare recipent's went back to work.

Defect reduction...due to the balanced budget, over 400 billion was repaid on our nations debt.


There are are many more positives I like and a few BIG negatives, true he is a "career" politician and that is a cause for the hair's on my neck to stand on end...and I do not like as stated on his page under "solutions" his pledge to issue "1st day Executive Orders" it isn't so much the actual orders but rather the institution of issuing "Executive Orders" I don't like them...

But in the end, his Track Record...of PROVEN work in the government is what draw's me to him...Many have suggested a CAIN/NEWT ticket and in that order...

MANY on this board that visit another, should note I said the same thing MANY MANY MANY MANY months ago dang near the start of the whole GOP Primary/debate's back before Perry declared and Bachman won that staw poll (Iowa wasn't it)...

I have switched...I would rather see a NEWT/CAIN ticket and in that order...

Let Newt lead, and set the tone and allow Cain to be the behind the sceene implementor of the policy...pulling from his BUSINESS savy and "boardroom" knowledge would do wonders for the Senate and House.

Jake

charly_t
11-12-2011, 12:14 AM
Haven't been around in awhile....

Simply put...NEWT

Everyone has flaw's, the entire GOP field and well we all know of Obama's

But if you line up resume's Newt has the PROVEN jacket to get the job done..

Regained the house...1994 first in 40 years

Balanced budget...first in over a generation, not mine, but its promising for the future

Getting Congress to work...lowerd taxes for the first time in 16yrs, welfare reform, 60 percent of welfare recipent's went back to work.

Defect reduction...due to the balanced budget, over 400 billion was repaid on our nations debt.


There are are many more positives I like and a few BIG negatives, true he is a "career" politician and that is a cause for the hair's on my neck to stand on end...and I do not like as stated on his page under "solutions" his pledge to issue "1st day Executive Orders" it isn't so much the actual orders but rather the institution of issuing "Executive Orders" I don't like them...

But in the end, his Track Record...of PROVEN work in the government is what draw's me to him...Many have suggested a CAIN/NEWT ticket and in that order...

MANY on this board that visit another, should note I said the same thing MANY MANY MANY MANY months ago dang near the start of the whole GOP Primary/debate's back before Perry declared and Bachman won that staw poll (Iowa wasn't it)...

I have switched...I would rather see a NEWT/CAIN ticket and in that order...

Let Newt lead, and set the tone and allow Cain to be the behind the sceene implementor of the policy...pulling from his BUSINESS savy and "boardroom" knowledge would do wonders for the Senate and House.

Jake

Good to see you posting here again. Your post makes a lot of sense.

Gerry Clinchy
11-12-2011, 07:32 AM
I have switched...I would rather see a NEWT/CAIN ticket and in that order...

Let Newt lead, and set the tone and allow Cain to be the behind the sceene implementor of the policy...pulling from his BUSINESS savy and "boardroom" knowledge would do wonders for the Senate and House.


Jake, I'm leaning this way now, too, after watching the them in debates. The other aspect that could be incremental is that Cain, as VP, could learn a lot about all the areas where some thoughtful voters now feel he is inexperienced ... setting up 16 consecutive years of fiscal responsibility?

The VP has very little "power" in the Senate, but Cain could learn alot about how that body works and the personalities of the "players", as an observer there. If Congress is the "problem", changing those players could be the solution. Newt has the benefit of experience via working in the House, and he also has the historical perspective to use.

If Cain is as good a student as he appears to be, he could benefit greatly from learning from Newt ... if his ego will allow him to (nobody runs for POTUS if they don't have a strong ego!) Meanwhile, Newt might also benefit from Cain's grass-roots business experience as well.

Nor_Cal_Angler
11-12-2011, 12:17 PM
Jake, I'm leaning this way now, too, after watching the them in debates. The other aspect that could be incremental is that Cain, as VP, could learn a lot about all the areas where some thoughtful voters now feel he is inexperienced ... setting up 16 consecutive years of fiscal responsibility?

The VP has very little "power" in the Senate, but Cain could learn alot about how that body works and the personalities of the "players", as an observer there. If Congress is the "problem", changing those players could be the solution. Newt has the benefit of experience via working in the House, and he also has the historical perspective to use.

If Cain is as good a student as he appears to be, he could benefit greatly from learning from Newt ... if his ego will allow him to (nobody runs for POTUS if they don't have a strong ego!) Meanwhile, Newt might also benefit from Cain's grass-roots business experience as well.

Yup, Yup!!!!

Everyone says if you pay no attention to history, your doomed to repeat it....well History shows that IMHO Newt did more good than bad while Speaker...and he sure as heck KNOWS history.

Plus as stated, Looking and Sounding Presidential is as important as actually being...sadly in todays good-looks, popularity, camera-chrisma elections...

Newt is the only one up there IMO (including Romney) who can out wit, out speak, out charm (if needed), out articulate, out DO...Obama.

Cain's constant start of EVERY answer to EVERY question..."If you look at my plan 9-9-9" is not gonna carry the head to head with OBAMA.


Jake

Gerry Clinchy
11-12-2011, 01:47 PM
Newt is the only one up there IMO (including Romney) who can out wit, out speak, out charm (if needed), out articulate, out DO...Obama.


Agree ... RP has the wit & articulation, but he'd fall short in the charm department. And, I noted in 2008, when Obama can't refute a statement, he simply says, "That's simply not true!" ... but then changes topic & doesn't explain why it's not true. Huntsman might have a shot at holding his own in a debate with Obama, but he won't be the nominee, so that's a moot point.

As you note about Cain returning to his 999 plan, I see the other nominees (in the debates) also doing the same thing with their own individual "sound bytes". Newt is the only one who has added new information in each debate. He doesn't have to keep repeating just a few points.

You expressed concern with the use of executive order. If used primarily to undo what O has done by his executive orders, it might just be a wash?

Franco
11-14-2011, 04:54 PM
Cain backs public employee union collective bargaining and stumbles on Libya.

On other issues, Cain said:
* He believes public employees should be allowed to bargain collectively on wages and other benefits as long as it does not create an undue burden on taxpayers.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/cain-backs-collective-bargaining-for-public-employees-l931tg4-133828808.html

Question; Is there such a thing as undue burden on taxpayers when it comes to public employee collective bargaining?

Maybe the Wisconsin public employee union can get him to speak for them.

Nor_Cal_Angler
11-14-2011, 06:54 PM
Agree ... RP has the wit & articulation, but he'd fall short in the charm department. And, I noted in 2008, when Obama can't refute a statement, he simply says, "That's simply not true!" ... but then changes topic & doesn't explain why it's not true. Huntsman might have a shot at holding his own in a debate with Obama, but he won't be the nominee, so that's a moot point.

As you note about Cain returning to his 999 plan, I see the other nominees (in the debates) also doing the same thing with their own individual "sound bytes". Newt is the only one who has added new information in each debate. He doesn't have to keep repeating just a few points.

You expressed concern with the use of executive order. If used primarily to undo what O has done by his executive orders, it might just be a wash?

Even if it is used to "undo" what has been done by this current adminsitration, I do not like the idea that a President has them at his disposal...when does it stop...Obama...healthcare, Republican win's and uses one to repeal it, Democrate wins after that and use's one to re-instate...prob. won't happen but its a slippery slope in my book.

I admit, I really need to look more into what all is involved with using them, how they work, when they can be used, what for..etc.etc.etc

But my basic understanding of them is it's a trump card, end all be all, "I say it's this way and so it is"

If I am wrong about them then so be it and use them for the good of the Nation, but I didn't like some of the one's Bush used, I don't like the one's Obama has used and the one's he is promissing to use, and I don't think I will like it if the next President use's them in the same fashion.

On other new's....I hope this is an indicator of things to come.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-gingrich-cnn-poll-20111114,0,3988537.story

My only fear is that, as some new's outlets are saying that a rise in stock by Gringrich is just what Romney needs and wants...No one has taken him down from the top spot, and untill he is RUNNING SECOND or THIRD all this does is split the vote in the other camp's.

Romney voters are gonna vote for him regardless, similar to Obama supporters, but its the other's that take away from the bigger picture...kinda like a party looser running as an indpendent...it hurts the canidate and divides the party as a whole.

Jake

JDogger
11-14-2011, 09:46 PM
I view the R's much this way, and Obama as well...


....Which package of tainted meat is less likely to kill me?

Bon appitite regards, JD

M&K's Retrievers
11-14-2011, 10:12 PM
I view the R's much this way, and Obama as well...


....Which package of tainted meat is less likely to kill me?

Bon appitite regards, JD

Man, maybe that explains the food poisoning I got Saturday night. :(

BonMallari
11-15-2011, 05:58 PM
interesting analysis by Krautheimmer this afternoon,...basically said if Ron Paul were to run as indy candidate it would hand the election to BHO

shades of Ross Perot maybe

Hew
11-15-2011, 07:00 PM
Cain backs public employee union collective bargaining and stumbles on Libya.

On other issues, Cain said:
* He believes public employees should be allowed to bargain collectively on wages and other benefits as long as it does not create an undue burden on taxpayers.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/cain-backs-collective-bargaining-for-public-employees-l931tg4-133828808.html

Question; Is there such a thing as undue burden on taxpayers when it comes to public employee collective bargaining?

Maybe the Wisconsin public employee union can get him to speak for them.
What a freakin' train wreck the past couple of days have been for Cain. He's not ready for prime time.

Franco
11-15-2011, 10:57 PM
interesting analysis by Krautheimmer this afternoon,...basically said if Ron Paul were to run as indy candidate it would hand the election to BHO

shades of Ross Perot maybe

Charles Krauthammer must be taking long naps if he missed Ron Paul repeatedly state that he would NOT run as a third party.

BonMallari
11-15-2011, 11:12 PM
Charles Krauthammer must be taking long naps if he missed Ron Paul repeatedly state that he would NOT run as a third party.

Krauthammer wasnt speculating that RP would run, it was put as a hypothetical to him if anyone could mount a viable third party run, and his response that the only one capable might be RP because of his loyal following.. IMHO he is right in that respect,most of the RP followers that I personally know,would follow him to the ends of the earth, cant say the same about any other candidate R or D

road kill
11-16-2011, 04:54 AM
Krauthammer wasnt speculating that RP would run, it was put as a hypothetical to him if anyone could mount a viable third party run, and his response that the only one capable might be RP because of his loyal following.. IMHO he is right in that respect,most of the RP followers that I personally know,would follow him to the ends of the earth, cant say the same about any other candidate R or D
Timothy Leary had a faithful following too.http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww42/sbx1/afro.jpg


Just sayin'.......


RK

JDogger
11-16-2011, 10:25 PM
Man, maybe that explains the food poisoning I got Saturday night. :(

Hope you are all recovered, Mike.

Remember, the food you eat, will not poison you as much as the words you read and speak, and the thoughts you allow.

Regards from the sweat lodge, JD

PS ..."Good Huntin".

M&K's Retrievers
11-16-2011, 11:21 PM
Hope you are all recovered, Mike.

Remember, the food you eat, will not poison you as much as the words you read and speak, and the thoughts you allow.

Regards from the sweat lodge, JD

PS ..."Good Huntin".

Also, don't eat the "special" at a restaurant that's closing for the season.:barf:

First beer in 4 days regards,