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BonMallari
11-29-2011, 08:42 PM
Never owned a horse, ridden a few roping horses, bet on just a few racing thoroughbreds and quarter horses...but NEVER considered eating horse meat..I know there is a large wild horse population but who are they feeding the horse meat to ?

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article/obama-legalizes-horse-slaughter-for-human/

dixidawg
11-29-2011, 08:46 PM
I don't see a problem with it. Why is a horse different from a cow or a deer or a moose?

caryalsobrook
11-29-2011, 08:52 PM
I don't see a problem with it. Why is a horse different from a cow or a deer or a moose?

How about dog meat. Acording to all those who want to limit breeders, we have too many dogs. After all, many people eat dog meat world wide.

WRL
11-29-2011, 08:55 PM
Bon,

Slaughter of horses is going on now. The horses are shipped to Canada and slaughtered there. Happens ALL THE TIME. I know because I have seen and talked to the buyers for the slaughter houses.

Horse is eaten in Canada and in Europe.

Times get any tougher in the US and it will soon be eaten here.

WRL

dback
11-29-2011, 09:08 PM
Horse meat is a staple in several cultures. There is actually a fairly large 'black market' in the US now.....several arrests have been made nationwide on folks trying to capitalize on it. Closing the 'kill' sheds has resulted in the abandonment of thousands of head on BLM and National Forest land where they often starve. $300.00 a ton hay and few options for owners of 20 year old 'lawn ornaments' has simply exacerbated the problem.

EDIT; WRL is correct......in the southwest, most go to Mexico. I watched several 'kill buyers' pick up 30 to 40 head at $35.00 each last week.

BonMallari
11-29-2011, 09:12 PM
I know horse meat was once used for dog food,and yes I know about glue factories...just never considered it for HUMAN consumption..Here in NV wild horses and burros are a problem, the population is out of control, and unfortunately every once in a while someone hits one in a car resulting in tragedy...yes they need some control

WRL
11-29-2011, 09:51 PM
Frankly, with some of the horses that come through the auctions, slaughterhouses are mercy killings.

A LOT of horses come through almost completely starved to death already.

WRL

charly_t
11-30-2011, 01:18 AM
Horse meat is a staple in several cultures. There is actually a fairly large 'black market' in the US now.....several arrests have been made nationwide on folks trying to capitalize on it. Closing the 'kill' sheds has resulted in the abandonment of thousands of head on BLM and National Forest land where they often starve. $300.00 a ton hay and few options for owners of 20 year old 'lawn ornaments' has simply exacerbated the problem.


I have been reading about people turning the horses loose on public lands for a while now. I think using them for food sure is better than letting them starve to death. I wouldn't eat any if I knew it but that doesn't mean that I want to tell someone else that they can't eat it. We don't live very far from a ranch where some "wild horses" are kept at government expense ( our expense ). Some of those old wild horses should be killed as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

HPL
11-30-2011, 01:52 AM
How about dog meat. Acording to all those who want to limit breeders, we have too many dogs. After all, many people eat dog meat world wide.
Ever seen the movie "A Boy & His Dog"? If I ever got hungry enough to eat my dog, I think I would take Don Johnson's character's position.

caryalsobrook
11-30-2011, 06:00 AM
Ever seen the movie "A Boy & His Dog"? If I ever got hungry enough to eat my dog, I think I would take Don Johnson's character's position.

I get your point, but I meant the response as a joke.:) Solution, eat dogs or limit breeders of dogs. Wonder why there hasn't been a proposal to limit breeding of horses?:rolleyes:

duk4me
11-30-2011, 09:11 AM
THe slaughter of horses was stopped due to thoroughbreds going from the track to slaughter and the uproar over Japan slaughtering Ferdinand, a Kentucky Derby winner, when he failed at stud.

It was an emotional decision pushed by well meaning people with alot of cash.

In the local paper this week they are searching for someone who turned 6 horses out on a county road. Two of the horses had to be euthanized due to their poor condition. Why did he turn them out? Because there is absolutely no market for cull horses and donkeys due to the repeal of slaughter of horses.

I have been involved in the horse business my whole life. To date we have been able to find homes for the ones who couldn't cut it at the track or we deemed unsuitable for breeding. However, a horse is no different than a cow or a hog when it comes to our use of them.

It is ridiculous to outlaw slaughter for any reason. I am sick of looking at horses standing in overgrazed pastures near starvation that have outlived their usefullness. Their cash strapped owners are trapped with no options but to lead them to the corner of the pasture and......

It isn't the first time emotional well meaning people with lots have cash have gotten legislation passed that had monstrous results.:(

zeus3925
11-30-2011, 09:55 AM
Never owned a horse, ridden a few roping horses, bet on just a few racing thoroughbreds and quarter horses...but NEVER considered eating horse meat..I know there is a large wild horse population but who are they feeding the horse meat to ?

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article/obama-legalizes-horse-slaughter-for-human/

To France. Bon appetit, mon ami!

duk4me
11-30-2011, 10:17 AM
Bon, The form has a different view on this. I don't know how to post a link to it but it basically says that language was left out of the new bill that could lead to renewed slaughter. However, it isn't likely in the next couple of years.

road kill
11-30-2011, 10:19 AM
THe slaughter of horses was stopped due to thoroughbreds going from the track to slaughter and the uproar over Japan slaughtering Ferdinand, a Kentucky Derby winner, when he failed at stud.

It was an emotional decision pushed by well meaning people with alot of cash.

In the local paper this week they are searching for someone who turned 6 horses out on a county road. Two of the horses had to be euthanized due to their poor condition. Why did he turn them out? Because there is absolutely no market for cull horses and donkeys due to the repeal of slaughter of horses.

I have been involved in the horse business my whole life. To date we have been able to find homes for the ones who couldn't cut it at the track or we deemed unsuitable for breeding. However, a horse is no different than a cow or a hog when it comes to our use of them.

It is ridiculous to outlaw slaughter for any reason. I am sick of looking at horses standing in overgrazed pastures near starvation that have outlived their usefullness. Their cash strapped owners are trapped with no options but to lead them to the corner of the pasture and......

It isn't the first time emotional well meaning people with lots have cash have gotten legislation passed that had monstrous results.:(

They are called Democrats!!:cool:


RK

duk4me
11-30-2011, 10:47 AM
They are called Democrats!!:cool:


RK

You mean dems like Representative Connie Morella and Benjamin Gilman who co-authored an anti slaughter bill in 2002?

I wasn't aware that they had switched party affiliations. Go figure.:rolleyes:

road kill
11-30-2011, 10:58 AM
You mean dems like Representative Connie Morella and Benjamin Gilman who co-authored an anti slaughter bill in 2002?

I wasn't aware that they had switched party affiliations. Go figure.:rolleyes:

That's not what I meant at all.
I responded to a quote of an assumption that you made, taken out of the context of your post.

But you already knew that.......go figure.:rolleyes:


RK

luvmylabs23139
11-30-2011, 11:04 AM
I don't know where I really come down on this issue. On the one hand I could personally never eat a horse. I don't think that a horse that has been purposely bred by a human for a certain purpose, such as racing should be turned into food just because they did not meet the expectations that the human that purposely bred them's expectations.
On the other hand how is culling wild horses that are populating so much that they are starving any different from culling deer for the same reason.
Many, many years ago I was totally opposed to shooting "Bambi". Now I allow people to hunt "Bambi" on my land and I eat venison.

duk4me
11-30-2011, 11:23 AM
That's not what I meant at all.
I responded to a quote of an assumption that you made, taken out of the context of your post.

But you already knew that.......go figure.:rolleyes:


RK

And my response to you was point out it isn't an either or situation. Hundreds of bills have been introduced on this subject by both parties. Some even, gasp, co-authored by both party's reps and congressmen-women.

Still its fun to take a jab at this heavily laden pro Republican forum every now and then and no I didn't say I was Republican, Democrat, or that other party member.:p

duk4me
11-30-2011, 11:28 AM
I don't know where I really come down on this issue. On the one hand I could personally never eat a horse. I don't think that a horse that has been purposely bred by a human for a certain purpose, such as racing should be turned into food just because they did not meet the expectations that the human that purposely bred them's expectations.
On the other hand how is culling wild horses that are populating so much that they are starving any different from culling deer for the same reason.
Many, many years ago I was totally opposed to shooting "Bambi". Now I allow people to hunt "Bambi" on my land and I eat venison.

That is why we rehome ours. I don't want to think about a foal of ours that can't cut it going to the slaughterhouse. I do see the need for it though and support it.

Actually horse consumption in the U.S. was quite common into the 40's and guess what caused the change of sentiment. Western movies.

caryalsobrook
11-30-2011, 11:40 AM
THe slaughter of horses was stopped due to thoroughbreds going from the track to slaughter and the uproar over Japan slaughtering Ferdinand, a Kentucky Derby winner, when he failed at stud.

It was an emotional decision pushed by well meaning people with alot of cash.

In the local paper this week they are searching for someone who turned 6 horses out on a county road. Two of the horses had to be euthanized due to their poor condition. Why did he turn them out? Because there is absolutely no market for cull horses and donkeys due to the repeal of slaughter of horses.

I have been involved in the horse business my whole life. To date we have been able to find homes for the ones who couldn't cut it at the track or we deemed unsuitable for breeding. However, a horse is no different than a cow or a hog when it comes to our use of them.

It is ridiculous to outlaw slaughter for any reason. I am sick of looking at horses standing in overgrazed pastures near starvation that have outlived their usefullness. Their cash strapped owners are trapped with no options but to lead them to the corner of the pasture and......

It isn't the first time emotional well meaning people with lots have cash have gotten legislation passed that had monstrous results.:(

Your post reminded me of a situation of my sister. She had a pleasure horse older than 30 years and was turned into animal control for neglect. The inspecter showed up questioning her care of the horse. She told him that the horse had plenty of feed and that she had not ridden him in years. She only wanted to let him live out his life as comfortable as possible. She did say that he certainly looked like a 30 plus year old horse. The animal control rep. told her that maybe she should get a vet to certify that the horse was not abused. Her solution? a neighbor had a backhoe working next to her and she got him to dig her a hole. She took the horse to the hole and shot him and buried him. Net result was her desire to let the horse live out his life was ended. Your statement of "well intended people can come up with horrendous results" is right on.

I see that you are a farmer. That gives you far more knowlege and experience with animals especially livestock than the great majority. I can remember when the gov. wanted to require that farmers have a port-a-potty in every field. I'm sure that those that proposed such a regulation thought it would be reasonable and benefitial. Like me it probably would just given you a big laugh, that is until such a regulation had been enacted.:rolleyes:

Gerry Clinchy
11-30-2011, 11:53 AM
They finally found a way to create some jobs????

charly_t
11-30-2011, 12:36 PM
THe slaughter of horses was stopped due to thoroughbreds going from the track to slaughter and the uproar over Japan slaughtering Ferdinand, a Kentucky Derby winner, when he failed at stud.

It was an emotional decision pushed by well meaning people with alot of cash.

In the local paper this week they are searching for someone who turned 6 horses out on a county road. Two of the horses had to be euthanized due to their poor condition. Why did he turn them out? Because there is absolutely no market for cull horses and donkeys due to the repeal of slaughter of horses.

I have been involved in the horse business my whole life. To date we have been able to find homes for the ones who couldn't cut it at the track or we deemed unsuitable for breeding. However, a horse is no different than a cow or a hog when it comes to our use of them.

It is ridiculous to outlaw slaughter for any reason. I am sick of looking at horses standing in overgrazed pastures near starvation that have outlived their usefullness. Their cash strapped owners are trapped with no options but to lead them to the corner of the pasture and......

It isn't the first time emotional well meaning people with lots have cash have gotten legislation passed that had monstrous results.:(

Good post. You have it all correct as far as I can see. I also hate to see those old ones who are in terrible shape.

Buzz
11-30-2011, 01:10 PM
How about dog meat. Acording to all those who want to limit breeders, we have too many dogs. After all, many people eat dog meat world wide.

I went to college with a kid who was a refugee from the Vietnam War. When he was in the mood to shock people at a party he would ask, have you ever tried dog? When people would ask what he was taking about he'd say you know, DOG, have you ever eaten a dog?

Him and his brothers and sisters survived on dog meat after they became orphans. The whole family was luckily adopted by someone in the US. I never did get the details, but he was a nice kid.

Nor_Cal_Angler
11-30-2011, 01:12 PM
Good Evening Sir....

Ahhh, yes I'll have the NY Steak...

Of Course, excellent choice...Horse or Cow Sir,

COW OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Medium Please...

As long as I am given a choice or told that there is the option for horse meat then I have no problem I guess.

Kenny, Flower, Sugar...wouldn't approve ;-);-) (horse's I grew up on at my G parents ranch)

Jake

mngundog
11-30-2011, 01:16 PM
I think the big question here is how will the general public accept horse meat in their dog food?
On a side note you wouldn't be finding horses on CL for $200 anymore.

Marvin S
11-30-2011, 01:26 PM
Never owned a horse, ridden a few roping horses, bet on just a few racing thoroughbreds and quarter horses...but NEVER considered eating horse meat..I know there is a large wild horse population but who are they feeding the horse meat to ?

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article/obama-legalizes-horse-slaughter-for-human/

We farmed with horses - I still remember some of their names - a properly cared for horse is a loyal companion just like like a good dog - not everyone feels they are part of the family, many feel they are animals & treat them accordingly. I've also seen dog carcasses hanging in the meat market in the Phillipines.

During WWII horses were slaughtered for human consumption. I believe it had something to do with a bonus feature on the food ration coupons. It apparently tastes a little sweet & is lo-fat. We didn't then & wouldn't now, eat any if it became available.

When folks look at the practical aspects of this situation sensible ones recognize that the space allotted for these horses won't support their welfare properly. So is more space allotted or are less horses allowed to graze? I have always felt that animal welfare meant keeping animals in good condition.

This has been an issue for many years championed by bleeding hearts trying to spend someone else's money :o.

But it is interesting that the messiah chose to address this during his initial campaign - smart folks stay away from off the radar issues as they can only hurt you :).

caryalsobrook
11-30-2011, 02:30 PM
I went to college with a kid who was a refugee from the Vietnam War. When he was in the mood to shock people at a party he would ask, have you ever tried dog? When people would ask what he was taking about he'd say you know, DOG, have you ever eaten a dog?

Him and his brothers and sisters survived on dog meat after they became orphans. The whole family was luckily adopted by someone in the US. I never did get the details, but he was a nice kid.
I know some people who adopted 3 children from Guatalama. the boy who is 17 does some work for me, taking care of the yard and shrubries, washing boats and trucks. Took me a few times to get him to even take a lunch break. They were orphans who parents died of alcoholism. They also told me it took him over 3 months to get used to sleeping in a bed. He would make a bed on the floor because he was used to sleeping on concrete.

Tonight, I will turn on the electric blanket and set the heat to 55. Tomorrow when I get up, I will set both the central heat and the gas logs to 70 degrees and by the time I take my shower and make the coffee, it will be warm as toast. What I take for granted is something that others can't imagine. How lucky we are are to be living in this country. Yes we disagree at times, even calling each other dumb or some other such silly names. But nobody dies. We get over it in a short time and life for all goes on without fear of the gestapo or federalies showing up in the middle of the night.

I saw your post about the new pup an wish you the best for her. My old girl has had 2 litters, 2 the first time which I kept that are 2 1/2 and have their HRCH and 2 Master passes. Her second litter was 9 which I have kept 2. They are 4 months old and I am hoping I have learned to do a better job with these. One of these days, I guess I need to read the rules. Reading the threads about FT's and HT's andwhether one group is arrogant or the other is a bunch of losers, is about as significant as dissagreements on this forum. Then comes the distinction between amaturs and pros.

Thanks for the post about the kids from Vietnam. It made me think.:)

bobbyb
12-01-2011, 06:21 PM
I know there is a large wild horse population but who are they feeding the horse meat to ?

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article/obama-legalizes-horse-slaughter-for-human/

You like Chinese food ???

BobbyB
cajun

BonMallari
12-01-2011, 07:05 PM
You like Chinese food ???

BobbyB
cajun

你在开玩笑吧,你是太可笑了 (translation : are you kidding me, you're a funny guy)

I have been known to consume and even prepare some Chinese food in my life, but I like to be able to identify the meat used, one of the reasons I do not care for Vietnamese cooking..

charly_t
12-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Have you all been reading about the Burro problem in Texas ?

Julie R.
12-02-2011, 11:48 PM
Click here (http://sidelinesnews.com/blogs/laurengallops/for-the-love-of-horses-pt-1.html)to read an article a friend wrote about the horse slaughter bill. Very well done article because it was for a horse magazine and sadly, most horse people have the teenaged girl mindset that horses are pets and should have as many 'rights' as people.

I have an extra horse here now and have had umpteen giveaway offers from people who can't afford to feed them. All the local horse rescues are overflowing with animals rescued from slow starvation. It's not just the cost of feeding them, euthanization and burial/removal can cost close to $1,000. Although I wouldn't eat it myself, I have no problem with others eating horse meat and being dropped by a bullet or bolt is a much more humane end than what is happening how. When our local foxhunts still fed flesh it was considered an honorable end to take an old hunter to the kennels to be fed to the hounds--I had one PTS that way.

2tall
12-03-2011, 12:20 AM
Julie, me too.

duk4me
12-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Click here (http://sidelinesnews.com/blogs/laurengallops/for-the-love-of-horses-pt-1.html)to read an article a friend wrote about the horse slaughter bill. Very well done article because it was for a horse magazine and sadly, most horse people have the teenaged girl mindset that horses are pets and should have as many 'rights' as people.

I have an extra horse here now and have had umpteen giveaway offers from people who can't afford to feed them. All the local horse rescues are overflowing with animals rescued from slow starvation. It's not just the cost of feeding them, euthanization and burial/removal can cost close to $1,000. Although I wouldn't eat it myself, I have no problem with others eating horse meat and being dropped by a bullet or bolt is a much more humane end than what is happening how. When our local foxhunts still fed flesh it was considered an honorable end to take an old hunter to the kennels to be fed to the hounds--I had one PTS that way.



Thanks Julie. That was an excellent article.

I was on the way to my cabin Wed. and someone had turned a horse out on the FM road. I was going to call the Sheriff's office if it was there when I came back. Turns out someone had called and the horse had already been picked up. It has become an epidemic here.

Being rural this is a hot topic here running about 90% pro slaughter. The other 10% after learning the facts tend to start agreeing with the pro side.

Sharon Potter
12-03-2011, 12:15 PM
The anti-slaughter folks like to spread all sorts of horror stories about the trauma in the slaughterhouses. Having spend an entire day at the (now closed) Cavel plant in IL, up to my elbows in horse gut piles as they came down the conveyor belt (looking for reproductive tracts of varying kinds for a reproductive seminar two vets and I were conducting on the weekend)...I got to roam the entire plant with the USDA vet's blessing, and watch the whole process on the 150+ horses that went through that day. I could see through into the slaughter area from my spot on the other side of the wall where I was "working". It was quick, efficient, and clean. I didn't see one single horse in a panic coming into the chute for the captive bolt. And the holding area was spotless and all the horses had plenty of hay and fresh water.

Every one of the people complaining should have to sponsor a "throwaway" horse...just one....for a year. Shouldn't be that hard, should it? Bet their tune would change if they had to pony up the expenses and found out what it costs. Put their money where their mouths are.

I like the idea of a retired hunt horse feeding the hounds, too.

Until there's a better way, slaughter is the best option as opposed to being abandoned and/or slowly starving to death. And I'd rather it be regulated and happen here than shipping out of the country to Mexico.

duk4me
12-03-2011, 04:35 PM
The anti-slaughter folks like to spread all sorts of horror stories about the trauma in the slaughterhouses. Having spend an entire day at the (now closed) Cavel plant in IL, up to my elbows in horse gut piles as they came down the conveyor belt (looking for reproductive tracts of varying kinds for a reproductive seminar two vets and I were conducting on the weekend)...I got to roam the entire plant with the USDA vet's blessing, and watch the whole process on the 150+ horses that went through that day. I could see through into the slaughter area from my spot on the other side of the wall where I was "working". It was quick, efficient, and clean. I didn't see one single horse in a panic coming into the chute for the captive bolt. And the holding area was spotless and all the horses had plenty of hay and fresh water.

Every one of the people complaining should have to sponsor a "throwaway" horse...just one....for a year. Shouldn't be that hard, should it? Bet their tune would change if they had to pony up the expenses and found out what it costs. Put their money where their mouths are.

I like the idea of a retired hunt horse feeding the hounds, too.

Until there's a better way, slaughter is the best option as opposed to being abandoned and/or slowly starving to death. And I'd rather it be regulated and happen here than shipping out of the country to Mexico.

Very astute post. All the anti's should be forced to see what is really happening to the horses that are sent to Mexico to be slaughtered. It isn't what Sharon has described here in the US it is brutal and unspeakably inhumane.